$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.0003591A; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:36:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04234 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:24:16 -0700 Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02577 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 19:06:23 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d157.nb.interaccess.com [199.88.137.157]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA00309 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 19:01:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971001190529.0093f100@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 19:05:33 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/01/97 05:05:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 05:36:45 PM-10/01/97 05:36:46 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 05:36:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I now have heard it mentioned before too. Any one (Mark) have any pictures of the roboJurassic park? Mark? I heard there are some on the video, but any stills or any other pictures? Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00061ED7; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:06:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04323 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:54:32 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02818 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 19:38:03 -0500 Received: from ts77ip134.cadvision.com (ts77ip134.cadvision.com [207.228.113.134]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA62546; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:36:44 -0600 Received: by ts77ip134.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCCE97.BD555140@ts77ip134.cadvision.com>; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:27:57 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCCE97.BD555140@ts77ip134.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Weylan Wang'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Jurrasic Park pictures? Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:27:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/01/97 05:27:54 PM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 06:07:03 PM-10/01/97 06:07:04 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 06:07:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The only "park" i've heard of is Dave H's, a bunch of his sun eaters in a clear plexiglass cage. From what I know of marks bots, if he made a place for them to be, they would some how find a way out. You have to remember that he has well I'm guessing on this one, about 100 or more robots in working order, excluding the one's that are some what like how outdated as the Apple two E. Devin I now have heard it mentioned before too. Any one (Mark) have any pictures of the roboJurassic park? Mark? I heard there are some on the video, but any stills or any other pictures? Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00165BA1; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:04:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA04732 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 20:51:53 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03778 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:37:23 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts47ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.72.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id VAA140000; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:35:55 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971001213113.00999890@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 21:31:13 -0600 To: Weylan Wang , Beam Mailing List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971001190529.0093f100@pop.interaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/01/97 08:31:13 PM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 09:04:13 PM-10/01/97 09:04:14 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 09:04:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:05 PM 10/1/1997 -0500, Weylan Wang wrote: >I now have heard it mentioned before too. Any one (Mark) have any pictures >of the roboJurassic park? Mark? I heard there are some on the video, but >any stills or any other pictures? I did some stuff of my park not long ago, and we're juuust about to get a nice video-board for our 'puter, so I'll be posting some time-lapse of our RJP to our website probably near Christmas. From what I understand, Scotty Dogma has/is putting one together for the "Java Joint" coffee shop in... in... Surrey B.C., isn't it? Sounds like a nice one too. Comments Scott? Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00169448; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:06:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA04741 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 20:54:19 -0700 Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03865 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:51:10 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d157.nb.interaccess.com [199.88.137.157]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id WAA09414 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:50:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971001225036.0096e6c0@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 22:50:43 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/01/97 08:50:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 09:06:46 PM-10/01/97 09:06:47 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 09:06:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US How about a digital video camera! The quickcam? This would be better then the turtlecam for sure! For those that have never been there, there is a camera pointed at a fish tank with a turtle in it. Time lapse 5+ pictures an hour. At 21:31 10/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >>I now have heard it mentioned before too. Any one (Mark) have any pictures >>of the roboJurassic park? Mark? I heard there are some on the video, but >>any stills or any other pictures? > >I did some stuff of my park not long ago, and we're juuust about to get a >nice video-board for our 'puter, so I'll be posting some time-lapse of our >RJP to our website probably near Christmas. > >>From what I understand, Scotty Dogma has/is putting one together for the >"Java Joint" coffee shop in... in... Surrey B.C., isn't it? Sounds like a >nice one too. Comments Scott? > > Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00173B80; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:13:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04753 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:01:27 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03781 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:37:31 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts47ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.72.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id VAA26148; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:35:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971001213555.009a2b60@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 21:35:55 -0600 To: "Nick S. Beer" , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park In-Reply-To: <3432C51C.ECA4FDC7@dial.pipex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park PostedDate: 10/01/97 08:35:55 PM SendTo: nick.beer@dial.pipex.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 09:13:55 PM-10/01/97 09:13:55 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 09:13:55 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:48 PM 10/1/1997 +0100, Nick S. Beer wrote: >Do you think Photovores give a accurate representation to biological >subjects-such as insects? Honestly, I'd have to say no. Not _quite_ yet, but we're close. As soon as we finish work on developing truly mobile photovores (ie: reversing action), then it'll be *much* easier to work on biological parallels instead of having to figure out ways to keep their sensors from snagging each other. You have to remember that even ants have pretty damn complex brains compared to a 2 Nv BEAMbug. There _are_ emergent behaviours in the 'bots, but I think we're still on the evolutionary path to get them to a society-level of interaction. Just my 2 cents - I'm sure Mark has some research he's been working on that'll suggest more, but I simply haven't had the time to watch them that intently. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.0019953C; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:39:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04789 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:27:13 -0700 Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (mcfeely.interaccess.com [207.70.126.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04253 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:26:48 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d157.nb.interaccess.com [199.88.137.157]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id XAA13850 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:25:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971001232610.0094b960@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 23:26:25 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: New solar engine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: New solar engine? PostedDate: 10/01/97 09:26:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 09:39:28 PM-10/01/97 09:39:28 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 09:39:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US John A. deVries II wrote in june about a new solar engine that M. Tilden was making. More complex I imagine, but anyone seen or heard any more about it? Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.001DD0E6; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:25:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04861 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:13:22 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04694 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:07:34 -0500 Received: from wingate.cadvision.com (ts70ip239.cadvision.com [207.228.75.239]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id XAA33316; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:06:05 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971001230533.00ebe45c@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 23:05:33 -0600 To: Weylan Wang , Beam Mailing List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971001225036.0096e6c0@pop.interaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/01/97 10:05:33 PM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/01/97 10:25:45 PM-10/01/97 10:25:46 PM DeliveredDate: 10/01/97 10:25:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:50 PM 10/1/97 -0500, Weylan Wang wrote: >How about a digital video camera! The quickcam? This would be better then >the turtlecam for sure! For those that have never been there, there is a >camera pointed at a fish tank with a turtle in it. Time lapse 5+ pictures >an hour. That's a distinct possibility once we get the video setup done. We've got software to do time-lapse shots thru our SNAPPY and will run an FTP script to u/l to our website. All in good time. I'm sure you'd rather see website updates/info/kits from us first, yes? -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.004B21F0; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 06:40:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA05412 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 06:28:20 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06791 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:31:04 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.79]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xGkOc-000WFdC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:30:22 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <34339332.D4326F6C@lis.net.au> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:27:30 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Updateing the beam web ring X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Updateing the beam web ring PostedDate: 10/02/97 05:27:30 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 06:40:47 AM-10/02/97 06:40:47 AM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 06:40:47 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Could you please update the list of sites on the BEAM web ring?? And could EVERYONE with a site please join it!! It only takes a few seconds, and add so much convinience. It will get more use out of the pages you spent so much time making. Come on people! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.004E4B53; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:15:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA05466 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:02:52 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06983 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:06:26 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.79]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xGkx5-000WFHC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:05:59 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <34339B8C.FF3B6390@lis.net.au> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 23:03:09 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Interest in Australian BEAM kits? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Interest in Australian BEAM kits? PostedDate: 10/02/97 06:03:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 07:15:20 AM-10/02/97 07:15:20 AM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 07:15:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Would anyone be interested in a solarengine kit from Australia? What about other kits? Maybe you could help me Dave? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.005C6E88; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:49:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06349 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:37:23 -0700 Received: from Internet.canadorec.on.ca (internet.canadorec.on.ca [192.139.245.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08147 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:32:36 -0500 Received: from SL19.canadorec.on.ca [199.212.89.127] (HELO mars.canadorec.on.ca) by Internet.canadorec.on.ca (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0064_3433_c179_810e; Thu, 02 Oct 1997 11:44:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971002112947.00689da8@internet.canadorec.on.ca> X-Sender: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 11:29:47 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dwayne Shelswell Subject: new/Why not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca From: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca Subject: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 08:29:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 09:49:41 AM-10/02/97 09:49:43 AM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 09:49:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi! I`m new to beam mail list. I`m a robotics student at Canadore College. Just starting to put together the things I`ll need to build my first robot. Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. Dwayne $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.005C802A; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:50:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06355 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:38:08 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08283 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:56:49 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts58ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.74.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA125366; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:54:59 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971002095226.00af5910@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:52:26 -0600 To: Dwayne Shelswell , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: new/Why not ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971002112947.00689da8@internet.canadorec.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 08:52:26 AM SendTo: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 09:50:33 AM-10/02/97 09:50:34 AM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 09:50:34 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:29 AM 10/2/1997 -0400, Dwayne Shelswell wrote: >Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? >It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and >less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. I'd imagine be cause its so damn easy to move! It's kind of hard to interact in an environment when you can simply bounce of the obstacle and spin off in a new direction. Effective yes, but problem-solving it ain't! Also, the power requirements are probably quite high compared to legged machines. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.005CE47F; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:54:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06384 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:42:25 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08310 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:58:51 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts58ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.74.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA112124; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:57:06 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971002095730.00a0ba30@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:57:30 -0600 To: Dwayne Shelswell , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Where? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971002113848.0068b3c8@internet.canadorec.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Where? PostedDate: 10/02/97 08:57:30 AM SendTo: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 09:54:49 AM-10/02/97 09:54:50 AM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 09:54:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:38 AM 10/2/1997 -0400, Dwayne Shelswell wrote: >Q:Where do you find Mark Tilden`s Principa Robotica? You don't. It's presently a WIP (work in progress). -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.0068FB35; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:06:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07069 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:54:27 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09965 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:31:53 -0500 Received: from ts77ip134.cadvision.com (ts77ip134.cadvision.com [207.228.113.134]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA51988; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:29:34 -0600 Received: by ts77ip134.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCCF2D.B98C7840@ts77ip134.cadvision.com>; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:21:35 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCCF2D.B98C7840@ts77ip134.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Dwayne Shelswell'" Cc: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: new/Why not ? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:21:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 11:21:33 AM SendTo: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca CopyTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 12:06:55 PM-10/02/97 12:06:56 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 12:06:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi! I`m new to beam mail list. I`m a robotics student at Canadore College. Just starting to put together the things I`ll need to build my first robot. Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. Well in beams case, quicker isn't always better or higher, to where mark tilden is with his walkers, if it's sped up, he wouldn't be able to notice small things. Like say a photovore on a 9v battery doesn't show any thing except for a few skid trails of heat shrink. Now I have heard about mentions to tilden and possible "spying" with his robots, and the us gov has some nice recon vehicles that maybe have a tilden warp to it later on. But actually a hovercraft is alot more complex than just a big fan and a skirt. The usual walker uses only two DC motors, and thats it, but a hover craft would need 3 to 6. Plus a microcore isn't designed for a more thrust on one side to turn blah. It's a forward, backword, forward.... The hover craft would move like this \ / \ / \ And I don't mean move forward in a trail like that, I mean sitting in one spot turning. I have been thinking of making some sort of "beam snake" that has motors activated one sec out of sync and some how moves like a side winder on sand. Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00713B3C; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:36:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA07552 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:24:34 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10566 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:51:23 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts60ip154.cadvision.com [207.228.74.154]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA123268 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:49:28 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971002133534.00ae8100@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 13:35:34 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: new/Why not ? -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? -Reply PostedDate: 10/02/97 12:35:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 01:36:49 PM-10/02/97 01:36:50 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 01:36:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Forwarded from Richard Diaz: ><<<<< problem-solving it ain't! ><< Also, the power requirements are probably quite high compared to ><; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:31:34 -0700 Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA11682 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:14:59 -0500 Received: (qmail 21348 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1997 22:14:32 -0000 Received: from ac037.du.pipex.com (HELO xal73.dial.pipex.com) (193.130.242.37) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 1997 22:14:32 -0000 Message-ID: <34341C8C.BCE193CF@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 23:13:32 +0100 From: "Nick S. Beer" Organization: BKA GB Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Electronic Schematics? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nick.beer@dial.pipex.com From: nick.beer@dial.pipex.com Subject: Electronic Schematics? PostedDate: 10/02/97 03:13:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 03:43:59 PM-10/02/97 03:44:02 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 03:44:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I have an idea I want to try a build my first Photovore from scratch..is this a good idea? I have some knowledge of electronics/soldering etc., my real background is programming though. Does anyone have any simple schematics and a list of components, ie transistors, piezo motors etc plus the ref. numbers. Or is it easier (and cheaper!) to buy a professionally engineered unit, Thanks in advance, -- Nick Beer BKA GB Limited ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Telephone 01376 320252 * Fax 01376 550005 * Cellular 0402 259115 * E-mail nick.beer@dial.pipex.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256524.00820A3B; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:40:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08788 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:28:03 -0700 Received: from glinda.oz.net (glinda.oz.net [208.154.100.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12401 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:13:50 -0500 Received: from everett1 (sense-sea-pm9-1.oz.net [208.154.97.1]) by glinda.oz.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27122 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710022312.QAA27122@glinda.oz.net> From: "Rick and Debora Everett" To: Subject: Lego Micro motor statistics Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:18:10 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: DebEverett@pobox.com From: DebEverett@pobox.com Subject: Lego Micro motor statistics PostedDate: 10/02/97 04:18:10 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 04:40:28 PM-10/02/97 04:40:28 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 04:40:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I was wondering why I have not seen many beam type robots that use the Lego micro motor. I just happen to have a few of them, and I took some measurements today. Dimensions: .625 inches cube No load rpm at 4.8 volts: about 20 rpm No load current at 4.8 volts: about 5.8 mA It has quite a bit of torque for its size, easily could power a small walker. I got mine in some sets at target that were massively discounted. I think they were about $10 for the whole set, which is about what the motor costs by itself from Lego Shop at Home. Let me know if you have experimented with this motor, and meanwhile, I will make a little walker and take a photo. (Is there a jpeg dropbox for BEAM?) Also let me know what is inside of this little motor in the way of gears. I don't want to ruin one if someone else already has. P.S. I ran the motor for way over two minutes off of a 1.0 farad capacitor (at 4.8 volts). Richard $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0000BA92; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:07:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08931 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:55:44 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout33.mail.aol.com (emout33.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.16]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12610 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:37:06 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout33.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA27223 for Beam@webconn.com; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971002193301_1832766593@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 04:36:39 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 05:08:03 PM-10/02/97 05:08:03 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 05:08:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-02 14:49:48 EDT, you write: << Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. >> It would solve some problems like terrain navigation...But would be near impossible to keep stable and navigate obsticles and im sure the power required would be way too much for a solar cell to handle or even a ni-cad...I think 6v is the highest nicad ive seen... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0004FB0E; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:54:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09116 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:42:03 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout41.mail.aol.com (emout41.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.59]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12970 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:26:03 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout41.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA11115 for Beam@webconn.com; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971002202321_780621846@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 05:25:37 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 05:54:31 PM-10/02/97 05:54:32 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 05:54:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-02 14:49:48 EDT, you write: << Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. >> It would solve some problems like terrain navigation...But would be near impossible to keep stable and navigate obsticles and im sure the power required would be way too much for a solar cell to handle or even a ni-cad...I think 6v is the highest nicad ive seen... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.00086A95; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:31:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09177 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:19:36 -0700 From: CLK007@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13283 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:04:10 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA21297 for Beam@webconn.com; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971002210152_-395763242@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: EviLCodeR@aol.com, Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Hovercraft Bot SMTPOriginator: CLK007@aol.com From: CLK007@aol.com Subject: Re: Hovercraft Bot PostedDate: 10/02/97 06:03:44 PM SendTo: EviLCodeR@aol.com,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 06:31:57 PM-10/02/97 06:31:58 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 06:31:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The stability problems and also the turning ones could be solved if someone could rig up some legs for the hoverbot... Just two, to keep it from spinning and under control... Also for the power thing, if you had sets of solar panels in an array, wouldn't you aim them and get enough power to run the whole thing? Just some ideas to bounce off you guys... -CLK $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.000AF329; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:59:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09243 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:47:16 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13589 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:45:36 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29168; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:51:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Dwayne Shelswell cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971002112947.00689da8@internet.canadorec.on.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 06:37:31 PM SendTo: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 06:59:43 PM-10/02/97 06:59:43 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 06:59:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Dwayne Shelswell wrote: > Hi! > > I`m new to beam mail list. I`m a robotics student at Canadore College. Just > starting to put together the things I`ll need to build my first robot. > > Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? > It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and > less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. > > > Dwayne > Hmmm... Never thought of a *hovercraft* robot.. There's a helicopter, but no hovercraft yet. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.000AF3A6; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:59:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09246 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:47:23 -0700 Received: from hoser (in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13464 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:30:05 -0500 From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 01:25:09 GMT Message-ID: <343848de.350531387@hoser> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: bill_r@inetnebr.com From: bill_r@inetnebr.com Subject: Re: Jurrasic Park pictures? PostedDate: 10/02/97 06:25:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 06:59:43 PM-10/02/97 06:59:44 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 06:59:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Check out http://www.kolban.com/webcam32/ for some really slick web-cam software. I will do things like only save frames with a certain percentage of changed pixels in them, do time-lapse photos, photos on demand (saves bandwidth if your camera is writing to your web server via a slow connection), etc. I just bought a copy and think it's pretty slick. A demo is available as well. On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 23:05:33 -0600, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: >That's a distinct possibility once we get the video setup done. We've got >software to do time-lapse shots thru our SNAPPY and will run an FTP script >to u/l to our website. > >All in good time. I'm sure you'd rather see website updates/info/kits from >us first, yes? > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.000BE139; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:09:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09272 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:57:26 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13705 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:53:41 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29536; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:59:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: EviLCodeR@aol.com cc: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: new/Why not ? In-Reply-To: <971002193301_1832766593@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: new/Why not ? PostedDate: 10/02/97 06:45:44 PM SendTo: EviLCodeR@aol.com CopyTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 07:09:55 PM-10/02/97 07:09:56 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 07:09:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 2 Oct 1997 EviLCodeR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-10-02 14:49:48 EDT, you write: > > << Q:Has any one ever tried to build a hovercraft robot? > It should give you a stable but adaptable base(faster, than a walker and > less complex mechanically) to build higher behavior patterns. >> > > It would solve some problems like terrain navigation...But would be near > impossible to keep stable and navigate obsticles and im sure the power > required would be way too much for a solar cell to handle or even a > ni-cad...I think 6v is the highest nicad ive seen... > Actually, 7.2v is the "standard" voltage for 9v *size* batteries. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.000E3CDA; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:35:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA09313 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:23:12 -0700 Received: from glinda.oz.net (glinda.oz.net [208.154.100.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14038 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:18:30 -0500 Received: from everett1 (sense-sea-pm3-28.oz.net [208.154.96.92]) by glinda.oz.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25964 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710030217.TAA25964@glinda.oz.net> From: "Rick and Debora Everett" To: Subject: Lego micro motor info Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:21:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: DebEverett@pobox.com From: DebEverett@pobox.com Subject: Lego micro motor info PostedDate: 10/02/97 07:21:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 07:35:32 PM-10/02/97 07:35:33 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 07:35:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I think this bounced last time. I was wondering why I have not seen many beam type robots that use the Lego micro motor. I just happen to have a few of them, and I took some measurements today. Dimensions: .625 inches cube No load rpm at 4.8 volts: about 20 rpm No load current at 4.8 volts: about 5.8 mA It has quite a bit of torque for its size, easily could power a small walker. I got mine in some sets at target that were massively discounted. I think they were about $10 for the whole set, which is about what the motor costs by itself from Lego Shop at Home. Let me know if you have experimented with this motor, and meanwhile, I will make a little walker and take a photo. (Is there a jpeg dropbox for BEAM?) Also let me know what is inside of this little motor in the way of gears. I don't want to ruin one if someone else already has. P.S. I ran the motor for way over two minutes off of a 1.0 farad capacitor (at 4.8 volts). Richard $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.001B7E32; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:00:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA09555 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:47:57 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14993 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:44:16 -0500 Received: from marvin (m011.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.240]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09440 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:38:32 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971003044402.006e7490@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 14:44:02 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: electronics Australia SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: electronics Australia PostedDate: 10/02/97 09:44:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/02/97 10:00:26 PM-10/02/97 10:00:27 PM DeliveredDate: 10/02/97 10:00:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US anyone remember me saying I'd suggested to Electronics Australia (Australia's most popular electronics magazine - of course) doing some projects of things like solar engines? Well, I got another reply today I've attached it below >Andrew, >Thanks for the idea of a BEAM site for our Webwatch column, The site you >suggested looks good, and so it might appear in the December issue.. the site he's talking about is Dave's site. They missed the point, but its publicity on another topic, anyone know whether inkjet motors are any good? Anyway, C'ya Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0041ED9B; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:00:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09879 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 04:47:34 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16926 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:21:42 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.64]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xH5nC-000WFdC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:21:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3434D473.7EA118BB@lis.net.au> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:18:11 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Australian BEAM kits X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Australian BEAM kits PostedDate: 10/03/97 04:18:11 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 05:00:18 AM-10/03/97 05:00:18 AM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 05:00:18 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US It looks as though I will be offering Kits for Australian BEAM'ers (or at least those that are closer to here than Canada!) So any suggestions, orders or advice would be most welcome. I will probably be able to offer a solarengine kit for around $20 Australia. I would really like to get BEAM happening in Australia, so if you can help me do so, I would really apreciate it. I would like to see some BEAM events happening here shortly. Keep in contact, and help me to build BEAM Australia! Cheers, Greg. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0042DCB4; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:10:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09888 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 04:57:59 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17023 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:31:54 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.64]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xH5wz-000WFiC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:31:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3434D6C5.FCF5AE3C@lis.net.au> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:28:12 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: BEAM Australia's ICQ number X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: BEAM Australia's ICQ number PostedDate: 10/03/97 04:28:12 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 05:10:21 AM-10/03/97 05:10:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 05:10:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If anyone is interested, my ICQ number is 2267811. I am usually online for a few hours after about 8pm, Eastern Standard Time. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.00439C3D; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:18:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA09894 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:06:10 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17209 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:52:39 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.64]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xH6HA-000WFfC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:52:08 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3434DBB5.4B3B2D02@lis.net.au> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:49:10 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: BEAM Australia X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: BEAM Australia PostedDate: 10/03/97 04:49:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 05:18:31 AM-10/03/97 05:18:32 AM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 05:18:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi AGAIN!!! Could I please have a link on your page to my page? (You are on mine if that amounts to anything!) The URL is http://www.lis.net.au/~gdenehy/beam/index.html ThankYou, Greg. P.S. Sorry for filling your mailbox so! P.P.S. How much do you sell in a month normally? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.005C5DC8; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:48:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10622 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:36:38 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18768 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:20:27 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts79ip210.cadvision.com [207.228.113.210]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA10816; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:16:06 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003100921.00a0a5c0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:09:21 -0600 To: Greg Denehy , Beam Mailing List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Australian BEAM kits In-Reply-To: <3434D473.7EA118BB@lis.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Australian BEAM kits PostedDate: 10/03/97 09:09:21 AM SendTo: gdenehy@lis.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 09:48:59 AM-10/03/97 09:49:37 AM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 09:49:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:18 PM 10/3/1997 +1000, Greg Denehy wrote: >It looks as though I will be offering Kits for Australian BEAM'ers (or >at least those that are closer to here than Canada!) So any >suggestions, orders or advice would be most welcome. I will probably be >able to offer a solarengine kit for around $20 Australia. I should warn you that we have to pay Mark Tilden a license fee for producing our Solarengine kit. Clear it with him first, as the SE is a 1Nv device, which falls under his international patent. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0068E89F; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:05:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11544 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:53:38 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19603 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:46:21 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA122756; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:43:03 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003124410.00b31650@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:44:10 -0600 To: JNNREaton@aol.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM: Pipe Crawler In-Reply-To: <970923220253_116377982@emout06.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Pipe Crawler PostedDate: 10/03/97 11:44:10 AM SendTo: JNNREaton@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 12:06:04 PM-10/03/97 12:06:05 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 12:06:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >A pipe inspector >crawler that is 5.5 mm in diameter and 20 mm long. What interested me was >its form of locomotion. It has three leaf type springs at one end, a body >that can expand and contract in the middle, and a weight at the other end. > It can move back and forth inside a small pipe or tube. This sounds _very_ cool. But I want more details about this "Piezo-electric actuator" they're using. Here's the URL - it's about mid-way down the page with illustrations. http://www.manufacturing.net/magazine/dn/archives/1997/dn0922.97/18f1519.htm -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.006943C2; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:09:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11571 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:57:26 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19591 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:45:47 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA75214; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:42:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003121811.00b143b0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:18:11 -0600 To: Arthur Ching , beam From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Process state questions. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Process state questions. PostedDate: 10/03/97 11:18:11 AM SendTo: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 12:09:49 PM-10/03/97 12:09:49 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 12:09:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:15 PM 9/8/1997 -0400, Arthur Ching wrote: >Can anyone tell me what a second or a third process is used for? Different walking/running gaits. After all, in a walking horse, it's one leg at a time. Any faster requires multiple actions from the legs, in our case, being second/third processes. Not too many 'bots use more than a single process, as they're all pretty slow mechanically at this point. >What is >the ideal number processes for a system requiring feedback? 6-1/3. Actually, I'm lying. Feedback is a function of the motor load back to the node/process activating that motor, so it's independant of the process number. >And finally, >is it possible, or even necessary, to add a process? Please be as >detailed as possible! Simple. Just tie the input to any Nv node high (+) just for a fraction of a second. That should start another process. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.006945AA; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:09:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11574 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:57:35 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19600 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:46:07 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA168486; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:42:39 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003122135.00b272f0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:21:35 -0600 To: "Lawrence E. Powell Sr." , "'Beam'" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: IC's In-Reply-To: <01BCBDCB.86391570@LARRYP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: IC's PostedDate: 10/03/97 11:21:35 AM SendTo: lepowell@icon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 12:09:59 PM-10/03/97 12:10:00 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 12:10:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yikes! I really have to watch how old my email gets...sorry! At 09:24 AM 9/10/1997 -0500, Lawrence E. Powell Sr. wrote: >This will be my second message to your group. I was hoping to fined out if any one in the group was used a BA6222 motor driver IC. No - I haven't heard of this one. Any more details? I can't seem to find it based on the number alone. Sounds like it could be fun! -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.006A6024; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:21:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA11619 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:09:31 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19597 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:46:01 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA168626; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:42:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003122609.00a00500@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 12:26:09 -0600 To: David M Barker , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: It speaks! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: It speaks! PostedDate: 10/03/97 11:26:09 AM SendTo: dbarker@uoguelph.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 12:22:05 PM-10/03/97 12:22:06 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 12:22:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:38 AM 9/17/1997 -0400, David M Barker wrote: >Has anybody tried this before and why aren't I getting one click every >time the single process I've got going passes my output? I realize this >is all very abstract and doesn't have much to do with making a robot live >but there you go. This sounds cool (sorry 'bout the pun). I'll have to wire up some piezos to a uCore and see what happens. I know Mark has done some work with sound on the uCore, but not that much. FYI, bi-colour LED's work well for examining the processes too. regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.006BC698; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:37:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA11672 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:24:52 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19897 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:05:05 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA52136; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:01:51 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003130303.00b0e660@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 13:03:03 -0600 To: Weylan Wang , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Wheels and blinking LED? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970926001002.0094f280@pop.interaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Wheels and blinking LED? PostedDate: 10/03/97 12:03:03 PM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 12:37:26 PM-10/03/97 12:37:27 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 12:37:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:18 AM 9/26/1997 -0500, Weylan Wang wrote: >Does the blinky LED blink? I didn't seem to see it go. The motor goes, so >I assume it is working, but I guess I expected the LED to be bright enough >to see. Nope - you're describing the way it's supposed to work. In fact, you usually will see the FLED blink only when something's WRONG. >Any ideas on wheels? I could use gears glued, but what do you all use? >Rubber of some kind? Any suggestions? Rubber pinch rollers from cassette mechanisms; broken "Hot Wheels"; hand made (rough pieces of wood chucked to a drill and sanded round). Try a hobby store - sometimes they have bags of wood wheels. >I was hoping someone had the URL. I found it >once and can not for the life of me find it again. Probably the one referenced by Brian Bush's FAQ at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.0078F088; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:00:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA12356 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:48:39 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20982 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:14:15 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts31ip113.cadvision.com [207.228.70.113]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id PAA44800; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:10:56 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003143706.00b391b0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 14:37:06 -0600 To: Weylan Wang , Beam Mailing List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: For the Micro Power Solar Engine diodes? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970929001502.00945dc0@pop.interaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: For the Micro Power Solar Engine diodes? PostedDate: 10/03/97 01:37:06 PM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 03:01:06 PM-10/03/97 03:01:07 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 03:01:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:15 AM 9/29/1997 -0500, Weylan Wang wrote: >Any one notice that the some of the cap prices for the 47000UF and the 1F >really fluctuate? Are there any real restrictions that I should be worried >about when buying them for the Solar Engine or Micro Power Solar Engine? >$4-$11 for a ~1F cap is kind of a wide range and a scarry price. The >Panasonic Gold series look ok. The Panasonic AL Gold series _is_ the best. Stay away from the disk type, as they have a higher internal resistance. That is, they can only discharge so quickly, which means instead of "dumping" power to the motor, it "leaks" power instead. Stay with capacitors with the lowest ESR you can find. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.007ACF7B; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:21:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA12469 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:09:10 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20985 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:14:18 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts31ip113.cadvision.com [207.228.70.113]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id PAA20264; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:10:59 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003143932.00b35280@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 14:39:32 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , Beam Mailing List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Capacitors for SolarEngine In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Capacitors for SolarEngine PostedDate: 10/03/97 01:39:32 PM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 03:21:36 PM-10/03/97 03:21:37 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 03:21:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:59 AM 9/29/1997 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >Very large capacitors have a rather large internal resistance. ..usually.. The panasonic AL series seems to be the exception, where the larger you go, the lower the resistance. >Flying times of 15 to 20 seconds were achieved, if I remember >correctly. I think the motor and caps were sold by: They were mentioned in "Model Airplane News" a while back. If I can find the reference, I'll let the list know. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.007BAB7A; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:30:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA12527 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:18:24 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21176 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:41:53 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.223.167]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149019-2639>; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:46:01 -0600 Message-ID: <34356672.3349@planet.eon.net> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 15:41:06 -0600 From: "..." X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Nervous net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/03/97 02:41:06 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 03:30:58 PM-10/03/97 03:31:00 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 03:31:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I was just wondering... How do you modify a nervous net so that you can make a 2 motor, 4 legged creature turn if the bump sendor contacts something? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.007CA70C; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:41:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA12561 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:29:17 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21332 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:59:56 -0500 Received: from ts62-08.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.192] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xHFl1-0001Hj-00; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:59:36 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 17:28:46 -0400 To: , beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Nervous net Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/03/97 02:28:46 PM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 03:41:41 PM-10/03/97 03:41:42 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 03:41:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:41 PM 10/3/97 -0600, "Roger" wrote: >Hi, I was just wondering... How do you modify a nervous net so that you >can make a 2 motor, 4 legged creature turn if the bump sendor contacts >something? > >Roger > > > > You'll find that the two motor variation is a great introduction to MicroCore building, and leg-geometry tuning. It is not the most agile design, though. They tend, initially to be inclined to turn one way or the other, and you can tune the design to stabilize it. Reverse is no problem, but choosing a turn left / turn right might be best left for a subsequent design. On the other hand, Andrew Miller has a 'bot with an unusual and effective method of turning; the front motor can spin right around. So when it runs in to something, a timer (Nv) keeps the front motor spining in one direction for several revolutions. The robot turns almost "on a dime". Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.007F4EA6; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:10:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA12713 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:58:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21443 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:10:31 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts31ip113.cadvision.com [207.228.70.113]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id QAA93886; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:07:09 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971003160553.00b4fa10@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 16:05:53 -0600 To: "..." , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Nervous net In-Reply-To: <34356672.3349@planet.eon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/03/97 03:05:53 PM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 04:10:39 PM-10/03/97 04:10:40 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 04:10:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:41 PM 10/3/1997 -0600, ... wrote: >Hi, I was just wondering... How do you modify a nervous net so that you >can make a 2 motor, 4 legged creature turn if the bump sendor contacts >something? Ah, that can of worms. This topic has been a favourite one of mine to debate, as it's not that simple to make a 2 motor design turn, although others think otherwise. The idea is to prolong the timing at the Nv that controls the front motor "left" or "right" action. This *should* pull the front further over to that side, but I've yet to see an optimal mechanical solution. Miller has a neat walker "DAWG" (on our website someplace) that has sufficient clearance that the front legs actually are capable of spinn ing completely around 360 degrees, wheeling the front end over to one side. That's how I see it - any responders? -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256525.00835A65; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:54:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA12910 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:42:29 -0700 From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Received: from emout28.mail.aol.com (emout28.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.133]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21876 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:56:18 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout28.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA25793 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971003185422_-1674294160@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Wondering? SMTPOriginator: NeTKiLL78@aol.com From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Subject: Wondering? PostedDate: 10/03/97 03:55:46 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 04:54:52 PM-10/03/97 04:54:54 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 04:54:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was wondering if anybody has ever thought of designing a circuit like a solarengine but can deliver a steady voltage? Is this usefull for a photovore or microcore? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.000213ED; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:22:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA13032 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:10:27 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA22485 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:01:34 -0500 Received: from ts62-08.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.225] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xHHeh-00019D-00; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:01:12 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:30:22 -0400 To: NeTKiLL78@aol.com, beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Wondering? Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Wondering? PostedDate: 10/03/97 04:30:22 PM SendTo: NeTKiLL78@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 05:22:48 PM-10/03/97 05:22:48 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 05:22:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:55 PM 10/3/97 -0400, NeTKiLL78@aol.com wrote: >I was wondering if anybody has ever thought of designing a circuit like a >solarengine but can deliver a steady voltage? Is this usefull for a photovore >or microcore? > You mean "get rid of the pulses and make a steady voltage?" That would be a DC-DC converter. They can step voltage up or down from the input value but because you can never get more out than you put in, if you step the voltage up; the current goes down . . . Starting at a fairly low voltage and low current as we do with solar cells, any DC- DC conversion causes fairly high losses. Not impossible, just difficult. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.001622B9; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:01:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA13550 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:49:26 -0700 Received: from iris.iupui.edu (iris.iupui.edu [134.68.220.32]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23756 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 22:44:03 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c3p1.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.241.2]) by iris.iupui.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23782 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 22:43:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3435ABBB.1613@iupui.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 22:36:43 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: circuit question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: circuit question PostedDate: 10/03/97 07:36:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/03/97 09:01:50 PM-10/03/97 09:01:51 PM DeliveredDate: 10/03/97 09:01:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I'm looking for simple beam-like circuit to generate random numbers, perhaps a square wave of either random frequency or random duty cycle, or both. Any ideas? Or maybe even a clue as where to start? Thanks in advance for any/all help. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0028890E; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:22:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA13699 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:10:13 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24790 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 02:10:00 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id DAA19102 for Beam@webconn.com; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 03:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 03:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971004030923_38021562@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Wondering? SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Re: Wondering? PostedDate: 10/04/97 12:09:25 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 12:22:54 AM-10/04/97 12:22:55 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 12:22:55 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-03 19:17:05 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if anybody has ever thought of designing a circuit like a solarengine but can deliver a steady voltage? Is this usefull for a photovore or microcore? >> First i would like to say hello to all cuz I am new to the Beam mailing list...anyways the whole purpose of a solar engine is to conserve power..i.e. if the bot is in a place that doesnt provide enough light it will store the energy it can until it has enough and will then "dump" to the motor...As for a microcore it does require a steady voltage...well thats my 2 cents... -Chris $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00303F3A; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 01:46:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA13726 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:53:40 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25096 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 02:52:32 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-03.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.4]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA05370 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:51:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:56:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Nervous net In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971003160553.00b4fa10@wingate> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/04/97 12:56:18 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 01:47:01 AM-10/04/97 01:47:03 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 01:47:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: > Ah, that can of worms. This topic has been a favourite one of mine to > debate, as it's not that simple to make a 2 motor design turn, although > others think otherwise. The idea is to prolong the timing at the Nv that > controls the front motor "left" or "right" action. This *should* pull the > front further over to that side, but I've yet to see an optimal mechanical > solution. Miller has a neat walker "DAWG" (on our website someplace) that > has sufficient clearance that the front legs actually are capable of > spinning completely around 360 degrees, wheeling the front end over to one > side. > > That's how I see it - any responders? Well... I think my Spider provides rather better manoeuvrability, and also improved step height. (http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-spider.html) That's two motors, but eight legs - very cheap legs, though. With one motor turning forward and the other in reverse, the Spider turns on the spot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00326016; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 02:10:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA13757 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 01:57:41 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA25533 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 03:56:04 -0500 Received: from marvin (m045.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.206]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25200; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 18:50:02 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971004085531.006eb84c@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 18:55:31 +1000 To: Greg Denehy From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: BEAM Australia Cc: Beam Mailing List SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: BEAM Australia PostedDate: 10/04/97 01:55:31 AM SendTo: gdenehy@lis.net.au CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 02:10:20 AM-10/04/97 02:10:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 02:10:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 21:49 3/10/97 +1000, Greg Denehy wrote: >Hi AGAIN!!! > >Could I please have a link on your page to my page? > >(You are on mine if that amounts to anything!) > >The URL is http://www.lis.net.au/~gdenehy/beam/index.html > >ThankYou, Greg. > >P.S. Sorry for filling your mailbox so! > >P.P.S. How much do you sell in a month normally? ummmm... who was this message aimed at? Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00495CF9; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 06:21:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA13861 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 06:08:55 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26613 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 07:53:19 -0500 Received: from dcp1-56.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-56.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.56]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA10614 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971004075550.486f2df2@nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:55:50 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Re: Nervous net In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971003160553.00b4fa10@wingate> References: <34356672.3349@planet.eon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Re: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/04/97 12:55:50 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 06:21:29 AM-10/04/97 06:21:30 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 06:21:30 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:05 PM 10/3/97 -0600, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: >At 03:41 PM 10/3/1997 -0600, ... wrote: >>Hi, I was just wondering... How do you modify a nervous net so that you >>can make a 2 motor, 4 legged creature turn if the bump sendor contacts >>something? > >Ah, that can of worms. This topic has been a favourite one of mine to >debate, as it's not that simple to make a 2 motor design turn, although >others think otherwise. Not easy but if you give it a big berth... > The idea is to prolong the timing at the Nv that >controls the front motor "left" or "right" action. This *should* pull the >front further over to that side, but I've yet to see an optimal mechanical >solution. I've seen the PIC brain on my walker occasionally effect short-radius turns, not sure what it is doing but since the cycle frequency increases my guess is it's hitting all nodes but one. Hitting one or two nodes seems to make larger radius turns, it's all imprecise, nevertheless my little walker has no problems getting all around its box however it might get there. Feelers can be applied to multiple nodes at once something like... (sorry feel like doodling) R .------1M--*--- + L R switch/ | .--1M--' Front .---O O-100-*---|-*---|<|-*- Rn ---> 1 2 4 Reverse connections _|_ _|_ *-|---|<|-' |\/| to 2 and 4 if it 10uF -.- | *---|<|--- Rn ---> 2 |/\| turns the wrong way L _|_ | | 1 3 switch/ | `---|<|-*- Rn ---> 3 Back .---O O-100-*---*-----|<|-' Rn ~ 1.5M or so _|_ _|_ `-----|<|--- Rn ---> 4 10uF -.- _|_ Just an idea... haven't tested... ran out of diodes. Normally the 1M resistors keep the 10uF caps charged, turning off the diodes and having no effect on the microcore. If anything touches the cap is discharged (thru 100 ohm to prevent sparking) and the diodes turn on, applying the Rn resistance to the microcore until the cap charges again. Vary cap size and/or 1M to vary the hold time, vary the Rn resistors to control how much effect the circuit has. - Terry $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0049A446; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 06:24:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA13867 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 06:12:01 -0700 Received: from socrates.uss.net (mail.uss.net [209.100.88.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26708 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:12:05 -0500 Received: from mess ([209.100.89.9]) by socrates.uss.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34205U5000L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA26876 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: From: "LandE" To: "Beam Robotics List!" Subject: New easy concept. Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:01:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971004130432.AAA26876@mess> SMTPOriginator: lande@uss.net From: lande@uss.net Subject: New easy concept. PostedDate: 09/25/97 08:01:49 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: lande@uss.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 06:24:33 AM-10/04/97 06:24:33 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 06:24:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US How about making a "hopper" robot? Someone has probably already done this, and that's the idea. Tell me how it went. The main propulsion for the hopper I'm thinking of is 2 legs mounted at a 45 degree angle pointed away from the chassis. On the ends of these legs are short protrusions at a 90 degree angle. The motor just spins the legs, and it hops away, well, in theory, anyway. PLEASE PICK AS MANY HOLES IN THIS IDEA AS YOU CAN. I don't want to wast time and money and motors on a peice of junk. Also, how would you mount the motor to the legs? I was thinking of soldering the motor onto the side of the leg with the hopper, so you get more bounce. Thanks, Matt $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.004F3C2E; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 07:25:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA13880 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 07:13:07 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27168 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:11:35 -0500 Received: from dcp1-55.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-55.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.55]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15212 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971004091409.4dfffe36@nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 09:14:09 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Nervous Net Sensor Interface Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Nervous Net Sensor Interface PostedDate: 10/04/97 02:14:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 07:25:37 AM-10/04/97 07:25:38 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 07:25:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Those 1M resistors to + don't seem necessary, the caps will charge up through the node resistors. Simpler interface circuit... right switch \ .---O O--100--*-----*---|<|-*- Rn ---> 1 _|_ _|_ .-|---|<|-' C -.- | *---|<|--- Rn ---> 2 left _|_ | | switch \ | `---|<|-*- Rn ---> 3 .---O O--100--*---*-----|<|-' Rn = 1 - 3 megs (effect) _|_ _|_ `-----|<|--- Rn ---> 4 C = 1 - 10uF (duration) C -.- _|_ If you use it, maybe let me know how it works? Later... - Terry $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00542CDD; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:19:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA13896 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:06:52 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA27575 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:03:05 -0500 Received: from ts54-06.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.53] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xHViz-0001eM-00; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:02:34 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 10:31:35 -0400 To: khaupt@iupui.edu, beam From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: circuit question Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: circuit question PostedDate: 10/04/97 07:31:35 AM SendTo: khaupt@iupui.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 08:19:34 AM-10/04/97 08:19:35 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 08:19:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:36 PM 10/3/97 -0400, John and Kelly wrote: >Hi, > >I'm looking for simple beam-like circuit to generate random numbers, >perhaps a square wave of either random frequency or random duty cycle, >or both. > >Any ideas? Or maybe even a clue as where to start? > >Thanks in advance for any/all help. > >John > Hi John; "Beam-like" in what way? Solar? Low power? There is a method of generating pseudo-random numbers with shift registers and XOR gates (see AoE pg. 655-664) H&H also refer to a digital "noise source" chip. What are you planning? Hmmm? Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0058108F; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:01:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA13932 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:49:21 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27910 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:46:05 -0500 Received: from ts77ip134.cadvision.com (ts77ip134.cadvision.com [207.228.113.134]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA72894 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:45:27 -0600 Received: by ts77ip134.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD0A9.0AB02E20@ts77ip134.cadvision.com>; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:36:50 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCD0A9.0AB02E20@ts77ip134.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Scanner stuff Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:36:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Scanner stuff PostedDate: 10/04/97 08:36:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 09:01:57 AM-10/04/97 09:01:58 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 09:01:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well about 2 weeks ago I got my scanner, and I'm still trying to find the other thousand magazines with articles in it. To say the truth it might take about a week to scan all the articles and pictures I've been talking about. The few that I have scanned are about the new multicolour LED's, don't know how they exactly work but their plastic changes colour or something. The sony dog bots which have a nice design to them, but their remote control. I should get back to getting it up to date, if you want any just ask, you know where to find me Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.005D152C; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:56:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA13976 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 09:44:21 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28295 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:36:35 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts70ip229.cadvision.com [207.228.75.229]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA118666; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:35:52 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971004102926.00b09210@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 10:29:26 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Nervous net In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19971003160553.00b4fa10@wingate> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Nervous net PostedDate: 10/04/97 09:29:26 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 09:56:46 AM-10/04/97 09:56:47 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 09:56:47 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:56 AM 10/4/1997 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >> That's how I see it - any responders? >Well... I think my Spider provides rather better manoeuvrability, >and also improved step height. (http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-spider.html) Ah - is true. Sorry Steve, I forgot that your beastie was only 2 motors. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0061B64B; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:47:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA14021 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:35:01 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28668 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:31:07 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.224.151]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149022-14041>; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:35:42 -0600 Message-ID: <34367D3F.7A0@planet.eon.net> Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:30:39 -0600 From: "..." X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Photovore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Photovore PostedDate: 10/04/97 10:30:39 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 10:47:20 AM-10/04/97 10:47:21 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 10:47:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Has anyone here tried to build a photovore useing two motors out of just one Solar engine? You could probably use some photo resistors in front of the motors to measure light levels, and for the bump sensors, make them add a large value resistor in front of the motor... Would this work? Oh and also, has anyone tried the solar panel from radio shack part # (this number is off of the package) 276-124A ? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0061B84D; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:47:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA14020 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:35:00 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28645 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:27:27 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.224.151]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149036-14041>; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:31:34 -0600 Message-ID: <34367C4A.36CF@planet.eon.net> Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:26:34 -0600 From: "..." X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Parts supply stores... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Parts supply stores... PostedDate: 10/04/97 10:26:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 10:47:30 AM-10/04/97 10:47:31 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 10:47:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, Yesterday I went out to Princess Auto, and the 2 nearby radio shacks. THey had hardly any of the parts I needed, and I don't know of many other stores. Does anyone know of any electronics stores or surplus stores that have lots of electronic components and good gearboxes and motors, (note this should be in the Edmonton area, but if you give me the name of a chain of stores that might be in Edmonton such as Radio shack that could help too. Also any mail order things could help) Also What is the best thing to modify to get a good gear box for a walker? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.006299EE; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:56:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA14034 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:44:38 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28824 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:44:01 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts70ip229.cadvision.com [207.228.75.229]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA159004; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:43:09 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971004114020.00af81a0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:40:20 -0600 To: "..." , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Parts supply stores... In-Reply-To: <34367C4A.36CF@planet.eon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Parts supply stores... PostedDate: 10/04/97 10:40:20 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 10:57:02 AM-10/04/97 10:57:02 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 10:57:02 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:26 AM 10/4/1997 -0600, ... wrote: >What is the best thing to modify to get a good gear box for a walker? Any hobby servo. Check out PMS in Calgary or Tower Hobby in Edmonton for reasonable deals. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00629C22; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:57:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA14037 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:44:50 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28826 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:44:01 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts70ip229.cadvision.com [207.228.75.229]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA165692; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 11:43:11 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971004114211.00afda40@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:42:11 -0600 To: "..." , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Photovore In-Reply-To: <34367D3F.7A0@planet.eon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Photovore PostedDate: 10/04/97 10:42:11 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 10:57:12 AM-10/04/97 10:57:13 AM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 10:57:13 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:30 AM 10/4/1997 -0600, ... wrote: >Has anyone here tried to build a photovore useing two motors out of just >one Solar engine? I seem to recall one person suggesting this using exactly the method you describe. Don't know how it went. >Oh and also, has anyone tried the solar panel from radio shack >part # (this number is off of the package) 276-124A ? Not good. Lots of current, not much voltage. A solarengine needs at least 2.5V to operate reasonably well. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.006C5A7E; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:43:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA14094 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:31:10 -0700 From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29746 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 14:23:07 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA15241; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971004152211_1476951507@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: crs0274@inforamp.net cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Wondering? SMTPOriginator: NeTKiLL78@aol.com From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Subject: Re: Wondering? PostedDate: 10/04/97 12:22:27 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 12:43:35 PM-10/04/97 12:43:36 PM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 12:43:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If I'm right, the way that solarengine works is by storing up the energy from the solar cell then it disharges it to the moter when the power in the capacitor = that of the zener, thus creating short but powerful bursts of energy. If I'm right, you could take some capacitors, transisters, zeners, etc. wire them up in a way so that one capacitor would be charging while the other is discharging then vise versa, creating steady but powerful charge to a moter, etc. Just wondering, Kyle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.006C8F9E; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:45:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA14097 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:33:26 -0700 Received: from socrates.uss.net (mail.uss.net [209.100.88.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29679 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 14:16:18 -0500 Received: from mess ([209.100.89.104]) by socrates.uss.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34205U5000L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA902 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 14:08:45 -0500 Reply-To: From: "LandE" To: "Beam Robotics List!" Subject: What for legs, and ever heard of Record Breakers motor? Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:10:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCC9CD.808C7AA0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971004190830.AAA902@mess> SMTPOriginator: lande@uss.net From: lande@uss.net Subject: What for legs, and ever heard of Record Breakers motor? PostedDate: 09/25/97 02:10:12 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: lande@uss.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 12:45:58 PM-10/04/97 12:45:59 PM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 12:45:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US What does anyone use for walker legs? I don't know. Something sturdy, bendable, and light. Hmmmm... Has onyone ever heard of or used the motor out of the little record breakers cars? It's pretty little, is run off of 2 or 3 AAs, usually 2. The cars burn!! They can go quite fast. They have (I guess) a lot of torque, and accelerate like nothing. Anything alse anyone could tell me about them will be helpfull. THANKS!!! Matt Good Yes, That's my real name. Email - lande@uss.net Homepage not ready yet.

What does anyone use for walker legs?  I don't know.  Something sturdy, bendable, and light.  Hmmmm...

Has onyone ever heard of or used the motor out of the little record breakers cars?  It's pretty little, is run off of 2 or 3 AAs, usually 2.  The cars burn!!  They can go quite fast.  They have (I guess) a lot of torque, and accelerate like nothing.  Anything alse anyone could tell me about them will be helpfull.  THANKS!!!


Matt Good
Yes, That's my real name.  Email - lande@uss.net
Homepage not ready yet.

$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.0072201B; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 13:46:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA14132 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 13:34:12 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA30218 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:27:03 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA08851 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971004162623_-1765071385@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Unlikely parts for robots. SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: Unlikely parts for robots. PostedDate: 10/04/97 01:26:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 01:46:35 PM-10/04/97 01:46:36 PM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 01:46:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello! A couple of days ago, I saw a couple of kids at my school with the latest fad attached to their backpacks...paper clips. These aren't any ordiary paper clips; they are about 3 inches long in their normal shape, and probably about 10-12 inches unfolded. The wire is about 1/8 of an inch thick, and are springy and look cool, too. Anyway, on to the point: They make great robot frames, legs, etc. They are easily soldered to, and I found it was easy to bend them into the shape of a leg, frame etc. I didn't look, but I'm sure that there are other sizes of paper clips that would be good for frames. I have used normal medium sized paper clips before in robots, but these are great for larger 'bots. Just thought I would alert everyone to the potential part source. Anyone else found any unusual parts sources? Ivar Thorson -- http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/9879/homepage.htm -- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256526.00813306; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:31:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14252 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 16:18:50 -0700 Received: from minfox.com (minfox.com [207.107.168.65]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA31092 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 18:10:15 -0500 Received: by minfox.com (Wildcat) id 23882W Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:50:58 GMT From: jim.horner@minfox.com (Jim Horner) Subject: Re: Process state questio Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:15:00 GMT Message-Id: <875951450@minfox.com> Organization: MINFOX Courtenay, BC (250)-337-2023 To: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: jim.horner@minfox.com From: jim.horner@minfox.com Subject: Re: Process state questio PostedDate: 10/04/97 12:15:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 04:31:17 PM-10/04/97 04:31:18 PM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 04:31:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US DA>>Can anyone tell me what a second or a third process is used for? DA>Different walking/running gaits. After all, in a walking horse, it's one DA>leg at a time. Any faster requires multiple actions from the legs, in our DA>case, being second/third processes. Just as a point of interest, I got my funky walkman powered, belt driven, gumby legged walker to work best using a saturated 6Nv loop, (ie. 3 pulses). 2 (opposite) Nvs are not used yet, till I think of something to use them for. This gives a slow gait with 1 process, and a running gait with 3 processes. 2 processes just twitches on the spot. DA>Not too many 'bots use more than a single process, as they're all pretty DA>slow mechanically at this point. DA>>What is DA>>the ideal number processes for a system requiring feedback? DA>6-1/3. Actually, I'm lying. Feedback is a function of the motor load back DA>to the node/process activating that motor, so it's independant of the DA>process number. One thing I noticed re feedback on this 2 motor walker; It's way easier to change things by bending the legs a bit than trying to fiddle with the time constants past a certain point. If it seems like one leg is `on' for too long, you can just make a tiny bend to load that leg more. I don't know if this is an effect of feedback (which I gather would be minimal using a '245 driver as I'm doing), or just a mechanical effect. DA>>And finally, DA>>is it possible, or even necessary, to add a process? Please be as DA>>detailed as possible! DA>Simple. Just tie the input to any Nv node high (+) just for a fraction of a DA>second. That should start another process. One fun thing to do when I had this 2motor 6Nv thing still tethered to the breadboard was to randomly pulse the net and watch the critter twitch. It would run a few steps, stop, twitch, kinda rear up if the random input pulses turned the front motor a couple of times in a row in the same direction, and run a couple more steps etc. One of these days when the kids-cats-dog-wife-house give me a chance I'd like to add a feeler-with-a-weight type thingy to +Vcc to automatically add random pulses on the now untethered walker. ...jim --- ? OLX 2.1 TD ? Dorothy, Hate Oz, Hate You, took the slippers, Toto. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.0007FC43; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 18:27:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14345 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 18:14:48 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31689 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 20:07:10 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.223.166]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149052-3556>; Sat, 4 Oct 1997 19:11:42 -0600 Message-ID: <3436E81A.26CF@planet.eon.net> Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 19:06:34 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5360 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: PCB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: PCB PostedDate: 10/04/97 06:06:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/04/97 06:27:20 PM-10/04/97 06:27:21 PM DeliveredDate: 10/04/97 06:27:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I've been doing most of my circuits on the breadboard or made simple "free formed" circuits, and am wondering... What's the easiest way to make PCB's with minimal tools. I've heard that you can use a Photography enlarger (which I have) or something like that. Any information would be appreciated. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.002E04B0; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 01:22:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14564 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 01:10:04 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00995 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:07:59 -0500 Received: from marvin (m022.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.229]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04681; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:02:06 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971005080738.006feba4@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 18:07:38 +1000 To: NeTKiLL78@aol.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Wondering? Cc: crs0274@inforamp.net, beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Wondering? PostedDate: 10/05/97 01:07:38 AM SendTo: NeTKiLL78@aol.com CopyTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 01:22:50 AM-10/05/97 01:22:51 AM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 01:22:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 15:22 4/10/97 -0400, NeTKiLL78@aol.com wrote: >If I'm right, the way that solarengine works is by storing up the energy >from the solar cell then it disharges it to the moter when the power in the >capacitor = that of the zener, thus creating short but powerful bursts of >energy. If I'm right, you could take some capacitors, transisters, zeners, >etc. wire them up in a way so that one capacitor would be charging while the >other is discharging then vise versa, creating steady but powerful charge to >a moter, etc. I've been tossing round an idea similar to that for a few days, but I haven't had much chance to research it (my books are packed away somewhere! If only I could find them!) Anyway, I'll find them soon and report back shortly! C'ya Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.002E1345; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 01:23:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14567 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 01:10:59 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00992 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:07:33 -0500 Received: from marvin (m022.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.229]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04679; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:02:03 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971005080735.006f8614@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 18:07:35 +1000 To: Roger Korus From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: PCB Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: PCB PostedDate: 10/05/97 01:07:35 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 01:23:21 AM-10/05/97 01:23:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 01:23:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 19:06 4/10/97 -0600, Roger Korus wrote: >Hi, I've been doing most of my circuits on the breadboard or made simple >"free formed" circuits, and am wondering... What's the easiest way to >make PCB's with minimal tools. I've heard that you can use a Photography >enlarger (which I have) or something like that. Any information would be >appreciated. I've always used an etch resistant pen and ferric chloride after drilling through a photocopy of the plans hope that helps Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.003C7179; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 04:00:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA14609 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:47:51 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA01887 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 05:39:57 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.80]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xHo63-000WFYC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:39:35 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <34376DA4.CCF3496C@lis.net.au> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 20:36:20 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger Korus CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: PCB X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3436E81A.26CF@planet.eon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Re: PCB PostedDate: 10/05/97 03:36:20 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 04:00:21 AM-10/05/97 04:00:21 AM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 04:00:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Best and easiest way that I know of is to photocopy the scematic onto mylar transparency sheet, then simply iron it onto the PCB. It works as a perfect resist. Too easy! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.0048052B; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 06:06:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA14664 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 05:54:16 -0700 Received: from iris.iupui.edu (iris.iupui.edu [134.68.220.32]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02536 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 07:48:30 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c1p28.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.241.129]) by iris.iupui.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20605 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 07:48:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34377CF6.E15@iupui.edu> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 07:41:42 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: Re: circuit question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: Re: circuit question PostedDate: 10/05/97 04:41:42 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 06:06:46 AM-10/05/97 06:06:46 AM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 06:06:46 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Richard Weait wrote: > > At 10:36 PM 10/3/97 -0400, John and Kelly wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I'm looking for simple beam-like circuit to generate random numbers, > >perhaps a square wave of either random frequency or random duty cycle, > >or both. > > > >Any ideas? Or maybe even a clue as where to start? > > > >Thanks in advance for any/all help. > > > >John > > > > Hi John; > > "Beam-like" in what way? Solar? Low power? Beam-like to me means simple and inovative. > > There is a method of generating pseudo-random > numbers with shift registers and XOR gates > (see AoE pg. 655-664) H&H also refer to a Guess I'm gonna have ta get me one oh those. > digital "noise source" chip. > > What are you planning? Hmmm? The short version is I'm building a 'bot to investigate multiple coupled Nv nets. I would like to baseline it's behaviour by driving it randomly before introducing a more ordered control. Details will begin showing up on my web page in about a month. Thanks for the help, John > > Cheers, > > Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.0072F7D7; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:55:45 -0700 Received: from mail1.noc.netcom.net (mail1.noc.netcom.net [204.31.1.150]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA14912 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:43:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail1.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27093 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04714 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:16:40 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.221.192]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149100-5563>; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 12:21:34 -0600 Message-ID: <3437D983.6712@planet.eon.net> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 12:16:35 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5360 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Nervous Net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Nervous Net PostedDate: 10/05/97 11:16:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 01:55:51 PM-10/05/97 01:55:52 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 01:55:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was just wondering... could I replace the 74c14 in the NV with a 7404? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256527.007AF920; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 15:23:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14966 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 14:53:59 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05119 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 14:30:37 -0500 Received: from roger ([199.185.224.166]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149100-8222>; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:35:46 -0600 Message-ID: <3437EADD.49F0@planet.eon.net> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 13:30:37 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5360 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Servos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Servos PostedDate: 10/05/97 12:30:37 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 03:23:22 PM-10/05/97 03:23:22 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 03:23:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If I where to use a servo with a nervous net, how would I connect it; and would I need to modify it for continuous rotation? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00009B00; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:06:36 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA15049 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:54:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16836 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.1.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05449 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 15:27:10 -0500 Received: from ryan.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.7.19]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA2167 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 14:22:40 -0600 Message-ID: <3437F771.5A7645BA@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 14:24:17 -0600 From: Ryan Hulsker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Beam Robotics List!" Subject: Re: New easy concept X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca From: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca Subject: Re: New easy concept PostedDate: 10/05/97 01:24:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 05:06:46 PM-10/05/97 05:06:47 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 05:06:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US LandE wrote: > How about making a "hopper" robot? Someone has probably already done > this, > and that's the idea. Tell me how it went. > The main propulsion for the hopper I'm thinking of is 2 legs > mounted at a > 45 degree angle pointed away from the chassis. On the ends of these > legs > are short protrusions at a 90 degree angle. The motor just spins the > legs, > and it hops away, well, in theory, anyway. PLEASE PICK AS MANY HOLES > IN > THIS IDEA AS YOU CAN. I don't want to wast time and money and motors > on a > peice of junk. > Also, how would you mount the motor to the legs? I was > thinking of > soldering the motor onto the side of the leg with the hopper, so you > get > more bounce. > > Thanks, > Matt Go to http://calgary.shaw.wave.ca/~rhulsker/robotics/ I have scanned some images of a solenoid that I pulled out of an old hard drive. This was used to actuate a break to slow the drive down when power is removed. The brake pad is held to the spindle by a spring, when power is applied to the drive the solenoid pulls the pad away from the spindle to let it spin. I have not done any measurements on this yet but it seems to me there are a couple of ways to use this in a bot. 1. the solenoid could be used to "kick" a leg to make it jump 2. the solenoid could pull on a lever driven drive train to turn a wheel. this could have a ratchet system so the bot would be able to coast after the original kick is delivered. Does anybody have any ideas on the usefullness of this part?? Ryan Hulsker ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00038463; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:38:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15072 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:26:07 -0700 Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06076 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:21:55 -0500 Received: from gold.interlog.com (root@gold.interlog.com [198.53.145.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with ESMTP id SAA17180 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mmladek1 (ip213-188.cc.interlog.com [207.34.213.188]) by gold.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29251 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:23:46 -0400 Message-ID: <01BCD1BB.D1A25EA0.mmladek@interlog.com> From: Martin Mladek Reply-To: "mmladek@interlog.com" To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Flashing LED in a solarengine Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:23:38 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mmladek@interlog.com From: mmladek@interlog.com Subject: Flashing LED in a solarengine PostedDate: 10/05/97 03:23:38 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: mmladek@interlog.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 05:38:36 PM-10/05/97 05:38:37 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 05:38:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have built my solarengine and then a photovore short time ago and it worked. Recently there was a posting to this list that the flashing LED does not flash if the solarengine is working correctly. My does flash and it also works??? I get the flashing and then the motor gives me a small push. I do not have details on the motor, it was bought for $1.00 at Active surplus in Toronto. Is my solarengine inefficient or is this how it works as well??? If not, what should I look at in solving this problem. Thanks for any input. Martin Mladek $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00038664; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:38:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15070 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:26:04 -0700 Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05803 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:36:55 -0500 Received: (qmail 10544 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1997 21:36:40 -0000 Received: from an003.du.pipex.com (HELO xal73.dial.pipex.com) (193.130.253.3) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 1997 21:36:40 -0000 Message-ID: <34380824.2A26C203@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 22:35:32 +0100 From: "Nick S. Beer" Organization: BKA GB Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Used BEAM Kits X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nick.beer@dial.pipex.com From: nick.beer@dial.pipex.com Subject: Used BEAM Kits PostedDate: 10/05/97 02:35:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 05:38:36 PM-10/05/97 05:38:37 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 05:38:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, Is there anyone out there interested in selling used BEAM or Photovore Insectoids? Thanks in advance, -- Nick Beer BKA GB Limited ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Telephone 01376 320252 * Fax 01376 550005 * Cellular 0402 259115 * E-mail nick.beer@dial.pipex.com * http://www.bka.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.000E23DB; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:32:05 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA15165 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:19:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19971 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06395 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:23:31 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco7-149.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.149]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA18008 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34382244.2138@golden.net> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 19:27:00 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Beam Robotics List!" Subject: Re: New easy concept. References: <19971004130432.AAA26876@mess> <3437F420.F2D316D9@shaw.wave.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: New easy concept. PostedDate: 10/05/97 04:27:00 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 07:32:10 PM-10/05/97 07:32:10 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 07:32:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >http://calgary.shaw.wave.ca/~rhulsker/robotics/ That is one muucho cool solinoid.... Probably not enough oomf to lift its own butt off the ground but I can think of a wack of other things to use it for.... any chance somone out there wants to track down a souce for themm..... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.000F9140; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:50:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA15172 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:37:27 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06404 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 18:25:09 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco7-149.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.149]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA18535 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343822AB.2B92@golden.net> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 19:28:43 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Flashing LED in a solarengine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Flashing LED in a solarengine PostedDate: 10/05/97 04:28:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 07:50:12 PM-10/05/97 07:50:13 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 07:50:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Martin Mladek wrote: > > I have built my solarengine and then a photovore short time ago and it > worked. Recently there was a posting to this list that the flashing LED > does not flash if the solarengine is working correctly. My does flash and > it also works??? I get the flashing and then the motor gives me a small > push. I do not have details on the motor, it was bought for $1.00 at > Active surplus in Toronto. If you bought your motor at Active then you probably bought your FLED there too.... I happen to have a whole bag of these.... Your right they DO flash...... They are actually an older lower voltage technology than the more common ones used these days in most solar engines.... They will actually trigger the SE at a lower voltage 1.8V give or take... That's not a big deal if your happy with the way the thing moves... The biggest problem I found is that they are particularly sensitve to the "too much light lock up" but if you've shaded it well you've probably done alright.....(my favorite trick is to glue the thing to te back of the solar cell that way if the cell is pointed toward the light the fled is always in t6he shade) You may wanna incrase the bias resitor to up the trigger voltage a tad (max about +.2V)... Put in a 10K pot and fiddle with it till your happy with the current vrs voltage characteristics...... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00110104; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:05:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA15196 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:53:27 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07454 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:48:27 -0500 Received: from marvin (m056.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.195]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11590 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:39:43 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971006014517.006e3374@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:45:17 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: web ring SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: web ring PostedDate: 10/05/97 06:45:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 08:05:51 PM-10/05/97 08:05:53 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 08:05:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ok guys. I've moved the web ring site AGAIN! this time it'll be permanent though its now at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/1142/ anyway, thanks Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.0011096C; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:06:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA15199 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:53:48 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07360 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:35:34 -0500 Received: from ts38ip126.cadvision.com (ts38ip126.cadvision.com [207.228.71.126]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id TAA171070; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:35:12 -0600 Received: by ts38ip126.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD1C4.AC323CE0@ts38ip126.cadvision.com>; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:27:09 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCD1C4.AC323CE0@ts38ip126.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Andrew Miller'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Flashing LED in SE (also NASA Stole Miniball) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:27:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Flashing LED in SE (also NASA Stole Miniball) PostedDate: 10/05/97 06:27:03 PM SendTo: amiller@golden.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 08:06:11 PM-10/05/97 08:06:13 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 08:06:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > I have built my solarengine and then a photovore short time ago and it > worked. Recently there was a posting to this list that the flashing LED > does not flash if the solarengine is working correctly. My does flash and > it also works??? I get the flashing and then the motor gives me a small > push. I do not have details on the motor, it was bought for $1.00 at > Active surplus in Toronto. If you bought your motor at Active then you probably bought your FLED there too.... I happen to have a whole bag of these.... Your right they DO flash...... They are actually an older lower voltage technology than the more common ones used these days in most solar engines.... They will actually trigger the SE at a lower voltage 1.8V give or take... That's not a big deal if your happy with the way the thing moves... The biggest problem I found is that they are particularly sensitve to the "too much light lock up" but if you've shaded it well you've probably done alright.....(my favorite trick is to glue the thing to te back of the solar cell that way if the cell is pointed toward the light the fled is always in t6he shade) One thing that I've tried is to put the LED right near the outputs of the solarcells, but fit it so that it doesn't make shade. But so that in low light area's a small bit of the led's light is converted back, I haven't really checked how much it helps, but hey in VERY low light (like in a fridge) it helps. Btw I have some low light solar cells, the only place you can get um is from calculators, about 3V forget mA. Also Richard should get his shotgun, NASA STOLE THE MINIBALL IDEA. SUE!!! I got it scanned, but am having an hard time making it smaller (2.2MB), and tis on my notebook. Phew hope I don't have to rescan everything onto my desktop. Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.0015FE89; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:59:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA15248 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:47:30 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06757 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:06:45 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA05841; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:11:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Roger Korus cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: PCB In-Reply-To: <3436E81A.26CF@planet.eon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: PCB PostedDate: 10/05/97 04:58:21 PM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 09:00:07 PM-10/05/97 09:00:09 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 09:00:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 4 Oct 1997, Roger Korus wrote: > Hi, I've been doing most of my circuits on the breadboard or made simple > "free formed" circuits, and am wondering... What's the easiest way to > make PCB's with minimal tools. I've heard that you can use a Photography > enlarger (which I have) or something like that. Any information would be > appreciated. > Well.. What I do is just go to Radio Shack and get a peice of "perfboard". It's just a small peice of phenolic board about 1/16" thick. You have to get the kind with solder pads. I think that the boards are meant for wire-wrapping. I don't recommend getting a large peice and trying to cut it into smaller peices.(It never seems to work for me). Then I just solder the circuit in, and instead of copper traces I use jumper wire. The spacing of the holes is just right for ICs. Radio Shack also sells what they call a "Solder Breadboard". Same layout as the solderless breadboard, except you solder the the components in. And hey, whats a Photography enlarger? Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00163EE3; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:02:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA15251 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:50:27 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08492 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:25:11 -0500 Received: from ts38ip126.cadvision.com (ts58ip80.cadvision.com [207.228.74.80]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id VAA162558 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:25:04 -0600 Received: by ts38ip126.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD1D4.08369CC0@ts38ip126.cadvision.com>; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:17:06 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCD1D4.08369CC0@ts38ip126.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Scanned articles Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:17:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Scanned articles PostedDate: 10/05/97 08:17:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 09:03:01 PM-10/05/97 09:03:02 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 09:03:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I set up a space for the pictures at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/2601/ I'll have the miniball picture up there, but need to get html ready. Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.001798B0; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:17:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15260 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:05:17 -0700 Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.1.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05357 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 15:13:02 -0500 Received: from ryan.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.7.19]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA1131 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 14:08:32 -0600 Message-ID: <3437F420.F2D316D9@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 14:10:09 -0600 From: Ryan Hulsker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Beam Robotics List!" Subject: Re: New easy concept. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19971004130432.AAA26876@mess> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca From: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca Subject: Re: New easy concept. PostedDate: 10/05/97 01:10:09 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 09:17:49 PM-10/05/97 09:17:51 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 09:17:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US LandE wrote: > How about making a "hopper" robot? Someone has probably already done > this, > and that's the idea. Tell me how it went. > The main propulsion for the hopper I'm thinking of is 2 legs > mounted at a > 45 degree angle pointed away from the chassis. On the ends of these > legs > are short protrusions at a 90 degree angle. The motor just spins the > legs, > and it hops away, well, in theory, anyway. PLEASE PICK AS MANY HOLES > IN > THIS IDEA AS YOU CAN. I don't want to wast time and money and motors > on a > peice of junk. > Also, how would you mount the motor to the legs? I was > thinking of > soldering the motor onto the side of the leg with the hopper, so you > get > more bounce. > > Thanks, > Matt Go to http://calgary.shaw.wave.ca/~rhulsker/robotics/ I have scanned some images of a solenoid that I pulled out of an old hard drive. This was used to actuate a break to slow the drive down when power is removed. The brake pad is held to the spindle by a spring, when power is applied to the drive the solenoid pulls the pad away from the spindle to let it spin. I have not done any measurements on this yet but it seems to me there are a couple of ways to use this in a bot. 1. the solenoid could be used to "kick" a leg to make it jump 2. the solenoid could pull on a lever driven drive train to turn a wheel. this could have a ratchet system so the bot would be able to coast after the original kick is delivered. Does anybody have any ideas on the usefullness of this part?? Ryan Hulsker ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.001AB091; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:51:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15294 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:39:07 -0700 Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA09119 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:34:52 -0500 Received: from nan-as-01b11.direct.ca [204.174.246.123] by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xI4sa-0006e8-00; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: <343869B7.58125679@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 21:31:52 -0700 From: Matt Currie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Microcore Project X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mjcurrie@direct.ca From: mjcurrie@direct.ca Subject: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/05/97 09:31:52 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 09:51:41 PM-10/05/97 09:51:42 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 09:51:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US My name is Matt Currie and I am doing a 9th grade science project on Microcore walkers. I have experience with Solar rollers and photovores and my grandpa is an electronic technician. I want to use 2 pager motors geared down with oven timers. I also want it solar powered (four 24X33) but am unsure of how to go about it. I will list my questions below. Thanks. - Is it easy to solarize a microcore, I mean like do I have to make some sort of solar engine to power the microcore or just connect the panels?(4 panels may not be enough for continuous walking) - Will those big panels Dave sells torque out the pager motors?(the panels give 5.5 volts but the motors run on 1.3 volts.) - Is 4 months enough time for the whole project(also to include light seeking abilities)? - Do all ovens have almost the same timers? - Is it worth it to scratch solar power : ( and use 2 "AA" Nicds? - If I go solar power would a halogen lamp be good enough to demonstrate it in a gymnasium? - Where can I obtain these microcore Ic's (74x14's?) and motor drivers? Radio Shack? (my local electronics store, Quales, does not stock them.) - Can I just put a photo-resister inline with the output? (more light on one side causes a smaller swing of that leg , causing it to turn into the light?) Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks. -Matt $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00233F34; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:23:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15395 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:10:47 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09816 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 01:05:10 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip188.cadvision.com [207.228.75.188]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA168514; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:05:01 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971006000355.009fb650@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 00:03:55 -0600 To: Matt Currie , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Microcore Project In-Reply-To: <343869B7.58125679@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/05/97 11:03:55 PM SendTo: mjcurrie@direct.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 11:23:33 PM-10/05/97 11:23:34 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 11:23:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:31 PM 10/5/1997 -0700, Matt Currie wrote: >- Is it easy to solarize a microcore, I mean like do I have to make some >sort of solar engine to power the microcore or just connect the >panels?(4 panels may not be enough for continuous walking) It's not that hard. As a matter of fact, I believe I posted a scan of my "SunScout" Walker schematic a few months ago (should be in the archives at webconn.com). I should be able to find it if you can't find it yourself. >- Will those big panels Dave sells torque out the pager motors?(the >panels give 5.5 volts but the motors run on 1.3 volts.) No, they'll be fine. I've run the pagers up to 6 volts for minutes at a time. >- Is 4 months enough time for the whole project(also to include light >seeking abilities)? Hmmm. Maybe. Keep in mind that (most) two motor walkers aren't that maneuverable, so phototropism won't be that direct. >- Do all ovens have almost the same timers? No. Older OTU's use pressed-fibre gears or layered gear sheets that aren't that modifiable. Newer OTU's aren't modular and don't lend themselves to modification easily. >- Is it worth it to scratch solar power : ( and use 2 "AA" Nicds? Definitely, especially if it's your first walker. Also, you could use 4 "AA"s and drive modified hobby servos (turned into cheap and sturdy gearmotors). >- If I go solar power would a halogen lamp be good enough to demonstrate >it in a gymnasium? Absolutely. My Sunscout will run continually off the power a 500W halogen about 8" above it provides (or in direct sunlight). It uses the equivalent of two 2433's wired in parallel for solarcellage (hmmm...like that word). >- Where can I obtain these microcore Ic's (74x14's?) and motor drivers? Radio Shack will stock the 74c/hc14's. I can't imagine *any* electronics store not stocking it, as it's a VERY common chip. As for motor drivers, you may be able to get away with using 2n2222's and 2n2907's for power in an H-bridge configuration. >- Can I just put a photo-resister inline with the output? (more light on >one side causes a smaller swing of that leg , causing it to turn into >the light?) Not on the output, but on the Nv that controls that leg. I won't go into details, as it's been discussed to death here lately. Check the archives for back-info. It's all there. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00241B48; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:34:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15407 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:22:00 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09813 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 01:05:04 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts68ip188.cadvision.com [207.228.75.188]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA102928; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:04:57 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971005235326.009fdba0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 23:53:26 -0600 To: Hyndman From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: RE: Flashing LED in SE (also NASA Stole Miniball) Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" In-Reply-To: <01BCD1C4.AC323CE0@ts38ip126.cadvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: RE: Flashing LED in SE (also NASA Stole Miniball) PostedDate: 10/05/97 10:53:26 PM SendTo: hyndmanm@cadvision.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/05/97 11:34:27 PM-10/05/97 11:34:27 PM DeliveredDate: 10/05/97 11:34:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:27 PM 10/5/1997 -0600, Hyndman wrote: >Also Richard should get his shotgun, NASA STOLE THE MINIBALL IDEA. SUE!!! I got it scanned, but am having an hard time making it smaller (2.2MB), and tis on my notebook. Phew hope I don't have to rescan everything onto my desktop. Huh? What magazine article is that from? I/we wanna know! -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.0026F169; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:05:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15420 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:53:04 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10148 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 01:44:38 -0500 Received: from marvin (m046.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.205]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14714; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:38:54 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971006064242.006e068c@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:42:42 +1000 To: Hyndman From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Scanned articles Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Scanned articles PostedDate: 10/05/97 11:42:42 PM SendTo: hyndmanm@cadvision.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/06/97 12:05:26 AM-10/06/97 12:05:28 AM DeliveredDate: 10/06/97 12:05:28 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 21:17 5/10/97 -0600, Hyndman wrote: >I set up a space for the pictures at >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/2601/ >I'll have the miniball picture up there, but need to get html ready. I'll help if you want those miniball things fascinate me immensely (not to mention my cat) C'ya Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/1142/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.006C861B; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:45:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA17844 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:32:59 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13614 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:54:34 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23982 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09489; Mon, 6 Oct 97 11:53:11 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710030217.TAA25964@glinda.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:57:15 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Lego micro motor info SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Lego micro motor info PostedDate: 10/06/97 11:57:15 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/06/97 12:45:24 PM-10/06/97 12:45:25 PM DeliveredDate: 10/06/97 12:45:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >I was wondering why I have not seen many beam type robots >that use the Lego micro motor. I just happen to have a >few of them, and I took some measurements today. > >Dimensions: .625 inches cube > >No load rpm at 4.8 volts: about 20 rpm > >No load current at 4.8 volts: about 5.8 mA Hmm. This is a significant improvement over their older motors which were two-pole monstrosities. If this is their new standard, then solar-lego is definitely a possibility. Can anyone confirm this as a standard gearmotor for lego? Which kits would we find them in? markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256528.00801636; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:19:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA19377 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:55:44 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15148 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:57:17 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup30.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.249]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04680; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:15:24 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971006165501.009cae70@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:55:01 -0400 To: Matt Currie , beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Microcore Project In-Reply-To: <343869B7.58125679@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/06/97 01:55:01 PM SendTo: mjcurrie@direct.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/06/97 04:19:12 PM-10/06/97 04:19:13 PM DeliveredDate: 10/06/97 04:19:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Matt et al., >- Is it easy to solarize a microcore, I mean like do I have to make some >sort of solar engine to power the microcore or just connect the >panels?(4 panels may not be enough for continuous walking) I been using only a single panel in my designs. Not continuous operation though, but very light and efficient. I would try to reduce the number of cells as much as possible to reduce weight, your bot will be more agile with less panels. See: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html#NvSolar For plans on the oscillator that regulates the walker (between charging and walking). Cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.004D3B22; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:03:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA21115 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:51:09 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15148 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:57:17 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup30.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.249]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04680; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:15:24 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971006165501.009cae70@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:55:01 -0400 To: Matt Currie , beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Microcore Project In-Reply-To: <343869B7.58125679@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/06/97 01:55:01 PM SendTo: mjcurrie@direct.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 07:03:38 AM-10/07/97 07:03:39 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 07:03:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Matt et al., >- Is it easy to solarize a microcore, I mean like do I have to make some >sort of solar engine to power the microcore or just connect the >panels?(4 panels may not be enough for continuous walking) I been using only a single panel in my designs. Not continuous operation though, but very light and efficient. I would try to reduce the number of cells as much as possible to reduce weight, your bot will be more agile with less panels. See: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html#NvSolar For plans on the oscillator that regulates the walker (between charging and walking). Cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.00515139; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:48:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21244 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:35:47 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01771 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 03:30:16 -0500 Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA28965 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 05:27:25 -0500 Received: from nan-as-01b12.direct.ca [204.174.246.124] by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xINnJ-0004Ol-00; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:46:37 -0700 Message-ID: <343985BD.8E237A46@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:43:41 -0700 From: Matt Currie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Microcore Project X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mjcurrie@direct.ca From: mjcurrie@direct.ca Subject: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/06/97 05:43:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 07:48:23 AM-10/07/97 07:48:25 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 07:48:25 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi it's Matt again, I just wanted to thank you all for your info, I really appreciated it. It looks like I'm going to end up ordering four of the big panels and 2 pager motors. If it turns out that either the motors or the panels won't work out, I'll use Nicd's and servos (I have about 15 anyway because I fly R/C planes). Again, Thankyou to everyone. mjcurrie@direct.ca $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.00517462; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:49:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21251 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:37:18 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01778 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 03:30:19 -0500 Received: from q-com.com (q-com.com [209.16.209.10]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA28715 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:10:38 -0500 Received: from [209.16.209.216] by q-com.com (SMTPD32-4.0) id A4696B00E2; Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:29:45 -0500 Message-ID: <34397384.E533CC38@q-comm.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:25:56 -0500 From: Todd Cottle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Cliff Stoll and Beam X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: cottle@q-comm.com From: cottle@q-comm.com Subject: Cliff Stoll and Beam PostedDate: 10/06/97 04:25:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 07:49:45 AM-10/07/97 07:49:46 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 07:49:46 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was popping by "The Site" and noticed a short review by Cliff Stoll on his latest toy - A Solarbotics Photopopper. Congratulations Dave!! His review may not be on line long so get it now!! http://www.thesite.com/0997w4/pov/stollsat.html Todd Cottle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.00525539; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:59:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21273 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:46:43 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01755 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 03:30:11 -0500 Received: from kira.ici.net (kira.ici.net [207.180.0.37]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29174 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:25:50 -0500 Received: from keithrab.ici.net (keithrab@d-ri-woonsocket-26.ici.net [207.180.21.35]) by kira.ici.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17972 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34398EC2.4B23@ici.net> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 21:22:10 -0400 From: Keith Barrette Reply-To: keithrab@ici.net Organization: iCi - Internet Connections Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solar cells from calculators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: keithrab@ici.net From: keithrab@ici.net Subject: Solar cells from calculators PostedDate: 10/06/97 06:22:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: keithrab@ici.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 07:59:27 AM-10/07/97 07:59:28 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 07:59:28 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I was wondering if the group of solar cells in a typical calculator are sufficient to charge a capacitor for a solaroller. I want to build my first BEAM 'bot but I am on a very small budget (aren't we all?). Maybe someone could reccomend a good source of solar cells? One more question, could I use multiple capacitors in my solaroller? Series? Parallel? --- Keith $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.0052C07A; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:03:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21282 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:51:28 -0700 From: DBFoster99@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02035 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 03:42:09 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA18841; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971007104101_318091231@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: korus@planet.eon.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: PCB SMTPOriginator: DBFoster99@aol.com From: DBFoster99@aol.com Subject: Re: PCB PostedDate: 10/07/97 07:42:04 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 08:04:03 AM-10/07/97 08:04:04 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 08:04:04 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The Nov. '97 Electronics Now has an article you should check-out titled "A new way tomake PC boards. In a nutshell the author (Bill Green) prints directly on flexible copper foil with a laser printer, then glues it to perforated-construction board, or regular circut board material if you don't mind drilling. The copper foil is called "Z-Flex" made by Courtlands. It is a thin base material of flexible plastic with 1 mil. of copper electro-deposited on it. It is a bit expensive $45.00 for 5- 8"x10" sheets. This opens up a sorts of posibillitys for beam circuts in that being flexible you could glue it to curved serfaces of whatever. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.00546CAE; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:22:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA21317 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:09:42 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA02333 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 03:58:22 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup20.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.239]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01687 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:16:34 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971007105544.00958100@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 10:55:44 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators In-Reply-To: <34398EC2.4B23@ici.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators PostedDate: 10/07/97 07:55:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 08:22:17 AM-10/07/97 08:22:17 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 08:22:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Keith, the only problem with solar cells from calculators is that they are low voltage, so you will need a few of them (2 or more) in SERIES to get a usable voltage. As for the capacitors, you can increase capacitance by hooking your caps in parallel, and total C = C1 + C2 + ... + Cn. Cheers, Brian At 09:22 PM 10/6/97 -0400, Keith Barrette wrote: >Hi, > I was wondering if the group of solar cells in a typical calculator are >sufficient to charge a capacitor for a solaroller. I want to build my >first BEAM 'bot but I am on a very small budget (aren't we all?). Maybe >someone could reccomend a good source of solar cells? One more >question, could I use multiple capacitors in my solaroller? Series? >Parallel? >--- Keith > > --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.005C444C; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:47:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA21848 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:35:29 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03129 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 05:02:41 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts8ip45.cadvision.com [207.228.67.45]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA145218; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:02:32 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971007095915.00ac1e00@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 09:59:15 -0600 To: keithrab@ici.net, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators In-Reply-To: <34398EC2.4B23@ici.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators PostedDate: 10/07/97 08:59:15 AM SendTo: keithrab@ici.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 09:47:48 AM-10/07/97 09:47:50 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 09:47:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:22 PM 10/6/97 -0400, Keith Barrette wrote: > I was wondering if the group of solar cells in a typical calculator are >sufficient to charge a capacitor for a solaroller. They sure are. They take a while, as they're not the best. Lots of the first BEAMbugs were built using these, but the newer cells are just soooo much better, I personally haven't looked back. >Maybe >someone could reccomend a good source of solar cells? Um...we sell them. Check out the website. > One more >question, could I use multiple capacitors in my solaroller? Series? >Parallel? You bet. Parallel is the way to go. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.005C58CB; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:48:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA21856 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:36:22 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03128 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 05:02:41 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts8ip45.cadvision.com [207.228.67.45]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA115600; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:02:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971007100023.00ac0660@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 10:00:23 -0600 To: Todd Cottle , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll and Beam In-Reply-To: <34397384.E533CC38@q-comm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Cliff Stoll and Beam PostedDate: 10/07/97 09:00:23 AM SendTo: cottle@q-comm.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 09:48:50 AM-10/07/97 09:48:51 AM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 09:48:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:25 PM 10/6/97 -0500, Todd Cottle wrote: >I was popping by "The Site" and noticed a short review by Cliff Stoll on >his latest toy - A Solarbotics Photopopper. Congratulations Dave!! Yes, we already saw it, except we couldn't access the video (14.4 backup modem being used right now). Thanks, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.006C7E31; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 12:45:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA22842 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 12:32:41 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04564 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:18:05 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA01469 for Beam@webconn.com; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971007151631_-695577273@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators PostedDate: 10/07/97 12:17:58 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 12:45:09 PM-10/07/97 12:45:09 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 12:45:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-07 12:17:53 EDT, you write: << >someone could reccomend a good source of solar cells? >> I get mine at the local $1 store...I just bought 5 more for yep you guessed it $5...well hope it helped... -chris $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256529.007D96C4; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:51:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23764 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:39:19 -0700 Received: from bud.cc.swin.edu.au (bud.cc.swin.edu.au [136.186.1.113]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05569 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:30:05 -0500 Received: (from 092891@localhost) by bud.cc.swin.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA08498; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:29:39 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:29:39 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Leslie Murdoch <092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> To: Keith Barrette cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators In-Reply-To: <34398EC2.4B23@ici.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: 092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au From: 092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au Subject: Re: Solar cells from calculators PostedDate: 10/07/97 03:29:39 PM SendTo: keithrab@ici.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 03:51:55 PM-10/07/97 03:51:56 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 03:51:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US G'Day. > I was wondering if the group of solar cells in a typical calculator are > sufficient to charge a capacitor for a solaroller. I want to build my > first BEAM 'bot but I am on a very small budget (aren't we all?). Maybe > someone could reccomend a good source of solar cells? One more Yes. Slowly. > question, could I use multiple capacitors in my solaroller? Series? > Parallel? Yes, Parallel. cya andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.00024201; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:24:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA24160 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:12:10 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06120 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:05:03 -0500 Received: from roger ([198.80.53.133]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149129-6918>; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:10:15 -0600 Message-ID: <343ACE30.61AA@planet.eon.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:05:04 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5360 Note: on earlier mesages this was Area51/5360, taht was just a mess up, sorry. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Robotics world Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Robotics world PostedDate: 10/07/97 05:05:04 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 05:24:47 PM-10/07/97 05:24:48 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 05:24:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US For the past few weeks, I too have been contemplating about entering a science fair with BEAM robots. I was thinking of building many different photovores and other BEAM bots, and leaving them in a Robotics world of some sort for anywhere from a week to a month and see how they cope with their environment and each other. I was just wondering what other people do for their Robotic worlds, and any good obstacles etc to add to mine. Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.00028D3B; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:27:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA24179 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:15:33 -0700 Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.1.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06127 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:06:10 -0500 Received: from ryan.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.7.19]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA21355 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:01:26 -0600 Message-ID: <343ACD95.AF83056F@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:02:29 -0600 From: Ryan Hulsker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Robotics List Subject: Solar cell simulation X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca From: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca Subject: Solar cell simulation PostedDate: 10/07/97 05:02:29 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 05:28:00 PM-10/07/97 05:28:01 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 05:28:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Question, I have started to build my first Solarbot and I don't as of yet have a solar cell to use with it, how should I go about simulating the solar cell using the variable power supply that I have. The power supply is variable from 1.25v-30v and is rated at a maximum of 1A. Should I just put a resistor in series to limit the current? If so what are some good starting values of Voltage vs current that the popular solar cells are capable of. Thanks for your help. Ryan Hulsker ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.0003286D; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:34:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA24226 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:22:10 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06245 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:18:09 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts31ip105.cadvision.com [207.228.70.105]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA154880; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:18:02 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971007181528.00abacb0@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:15:28 -0600 To: Roger Korus , Beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Robotics world In-Reply-To: <343ACE30.61AA@planet.eon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Robotics world PostedDate: 10/07/97 05:15:28 PM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 05:34:38 PM-10/07/97 05:34:39 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 05:34:39 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:05 PM 10/7/1997 -0600, Roger Korus wrote: >I was just wondering what other people >do for their Robotic worlds, and any good obstacles etc to add to mine. Don't bother with obstacles. If you build your critters right, *they'll* be the obstacles to each other! My 3' x 6' park has about 20 critters continually mucking about, and I occasionally split the part 1/3 vs 2/3 so that some of the more sedate 'bots don't get continually run over. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.000C5D80; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:15:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA24428 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:02:39 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06249 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:18:12 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts31ip105.cadvision.com [207.228.70.105]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA88600; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:18:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971007181708.00ab9660@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:17:08 -0600 To: Ryan Hulsker , Beam Robotics List From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Solar cell simulation In-Reply-To: <343ACD95.AF83056F@shaw.wave.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Solar cell simulation PostedDate: 10/07/97 05:17:08 PM SendTo: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 08:19:03 PM-10/07/97 08:19:06 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 08:19:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:02 PM 10/7/1997 -0600, Ryan Hulsker wrote: >Should I just put a resistor in series to limit the current? Yes. But don't ask me what, as I never have had to emulate a solarcell. >If so >what are some good starting values of Voltage vs current that the >popular solar cells are capable of. Well, there's datasheets of the performance that the solarcells we carry have. There's a link from the main page. Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.000C6690; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:15:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA24431 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:03:03 -0700 Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06509 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:35:00 -0500 Received: from nan-as-01c14.direct.ca [204.174.246.142] by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xIk5T-00038c-00; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:34:52 -0700 Message-ID: <343AD47C.80B12B11@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 17:31:56 -0700 From: Matt Currie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Microcore Project X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mjcurrie@direct.ca From: mjcurrie@direct.ca Subject: Microcore Project PostedDate: 10/07/97 05:31:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 08:19:04 PM-10/07/97 08:19:08 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 08:19:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Matt again, I picked up a 74HCT14 chip today, will that work for the microcore? I also got a pcb and the "Introduction to Electronics" book by Forrest Mims. So my question is Will the 74HCT14 Ic work, it was supposed to be a 74HC14. Also someone told me I can put a photoresister in parallel with the resisters on the Nv output, will this work. Thanks. -Matt $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.00157357; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:54:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24562 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:41:53 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07660 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:07:17 -0500 Received: from ts39ip158.cadvision.com (ts39ip158.cadvision.com [207.228.71.158]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id VAA164846; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:07:05 -0600 Received: by ts39ip158.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD363.57B2F420@ts39ip158.cadvision.com>; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:55:28 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCD363.57B2F420@ts39ip158.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Roger Korus'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Robotics world Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:55:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Robotics world PostedDate: 10/07/97 07:55:26 PM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/07/97 08:54:25 PM-10/07/97 08:54:26 PM DeliveredDate: 10/07/97 08:54:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US To say the absoloute truth, I brought my phovore to the lab, and let it move around while the two hedge hogs where out and about. She got mad charged, and made a couple scatches on the cell, while sonic chewed on wires. One tip, never mix animals running around and robots, you end up with sick animal(s), and you robot really shows how badly it would fail in nature. Try some clear jello with no sugar. :) Devin For the past few weeks, I too have been contemplating about entering a science fair with BEAM robots. I was thinking of building many different photovores and other BEAM bots, and leaving them in a Robotics world of some sort for anywhere from a week to a month and see how they cope with their environment and each other. I was just wondering what other people do for their Robotic worlds, and any good obstacles etc to add to mine. Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.00363C1F; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:52:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA24956 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:39:58 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA09174 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 04:03:37 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id FAA11654 for Beam@webconn.com; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 05:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 05:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971008050439_2055295055@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Chat room SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Chat room PostedDate: 10/08/97 02:04:40 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 02:52:30 AM-10/08/97 02:52:31 AM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 02:52:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey guys i think we should set something up where we can discuss Beam projects and stuff...I know a few Beam web pages that have chat but no one is ever in them...Well i hope someone else shares my desire to have a beam Chat room... -Chris $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.003C3CED; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 03:57:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA24995 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 03:45:21 -0700 Received: from moshpit.lis.net.au (moshpit.lis.net.au [203.35.83.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA09256 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 04:58:43 -0500 Received: from greg ([203.35.83.57]) by moshpit.lis.net.au with esmtp id m0xIstm-000WFqC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:59:22 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <343B58A9.DE9E86D0@lis.net.au> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 19:55:54 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: BEAM Australia X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: BEAM Australia PostedDate: 10/08/97 02:55:54 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 03:58:01 AM-10/08/97 03:58:01 AM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 03:58:01 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all. Just want to say that BEAM Australia is (or at least should be) back up. Also majorly updated. Have a look and send me changes/comments. Thanks, GREG. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.005460E4; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:21:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA25461 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:09:19 -0700 Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA09680 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:50:54 -0500 Received: from nan-as-01b11.direct.ca [204.174.246.123] by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xIxSr-0001mV-00; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 07:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <343B9D59.B2CE3887@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 07:48:57 -0700 From: Matt Currie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Group Subject: Chatroom on my page X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mjcurrie@direct.ca From: mjcurrie@direct.ca Subject: Chatroom on my page PostedDate: 10/08/97 07:48:57 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 08:21:43 AM-10/08/97 08:21:44 AM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 08:21:44 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi I just wanted to tell everyone I am working on a beam page and will be puting a chatroom on it for all the beamers. My page is at For now this site is pretty graphics intense, It will look like a mess on a 256- color machine. Sorry, I'll be working on a lower end page soon. At the moment the chatroom is not in place. I will e-mail everyone with an update. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652A.00696B31; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:11:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26661 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:58:57 -0700 Received: from kira.ici.net (kira.ici.net [207.180.0.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10150 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:29:47 -0500 Received: from keithrab.ici.net (keithrab@d-ri-woonsocket-21.ici.net [207.180.21.30]) by kira.ici.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02600 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343BD38B.3EC1@ici.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 14:40:11 -0400 From: Keith Barrette Reply-To: keithrab@ici.net Organization: iCi - Internet Connections Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: IRC Channel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: keithrab@ici.net From: keithrab@ici.net Subject: IRC Channel PostedDate: 10/08/97 11:40:11 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: keithrab@ici.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 12:11:38 PM-10/08/97 12:11:39 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 12:11:39 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, Just letting everyone know that I just set up #BEAM_Robotics on DALNet and I am looking for ops. If anyone needs help using DALNet, mail me and I'll be happy to help you out! --- Keith $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.0002E5FF; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:31:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA28152 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:19:15 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10768 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:59:02 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA29235 for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971008195750_1333263343@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solaroller record. SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: Solaroller record. PostedDate: 10/08/97 04:59:54 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 05:31:44 PM-10/08/97 05:31:44 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 05:31:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello! I finished building a solaroller a couple days ago that surprised me with it's performance. It charges a 0.1 Farad capacitor in 20 seconds, using a normal Solarbotics solarengine. Then it goes 28 inches in one big "vroommm". If I had a bigger capacitor, and got the competition grade solar cell from Solarbotics, it could probably do the 1 meter in under 30 seconds. My question is, how fast is the current record for a solaroller is, so I know how much faster I have to go to be competitive if I were to enter in a BEAM olympics. If you want to know more about the solaroller, go to: http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/9879/pics.htm Thanks for your help! Ivar Thorson -- http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/9879/homepage.htm -- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.0004481A; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:46:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA28228 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:34:00 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10857 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:24:40 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23703; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:30:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:18:05 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Keith Barrette cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: IRC Channel In-Reply-To: <343BD38B.3EC1@ici.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: IRC Channel PostedDate: 10/08/97 05:18:05 PM SendTo: keithrab@ici.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 05:46:54 PM-10/08/97 05:46:56 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 05:46:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Keith Barrette wrote: > Hi, > Just letting everyone know that I just set up #BEAM_Robotics on DALNet > and I am looking for ops. If anyone needs help using DALNet, mail me > and I'll be happy to help you out! > --- Keith > Whats DALnet? Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.00056DAE; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:59:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA28293 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:46:52 -0700 From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10825 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:21:28 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA14045 for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971008202054_589925606@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: It WORKS!!!! SMTPOriginator: NeTKiLL78@aol.com From: NeTKiLL78@aol.com Subject: It WORKS!!!! PostedDate: 10/08/97 05:22:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 05:59:20 PM-10/08/97 05:59:20 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 05:59:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just got my Solarengine kit on Tuesday and finally finshed it tonight, and I would just like to say ITS ALIVE!!! It seems to run very well, just tha it takes a long time for it to charge undeer a ceiling light but it works just fine. I'm probably thinking about adding on a 1000uF capacitor to the other two that I put on. All I got to do now is build the body for the Sollarroller. Anybody got any suggestions? Kyle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.0014BEEC; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:46:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA28635 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:33:58 -0700 Received: from kira.ici.net (kira.ici.net [207.180.0.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11348 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:03:14 -0500 Received: from keithrab.ici.net (keithrab@d-ri-woonsocket-16.ici.net [207.180.21.25]) by kira.ici.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00029; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343C4BE5.4599@ici.net> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 23:13:41 -0400 From: Keith Barrette Reply-To: keithrab@ici.net Organization: iCi - Internet Connections Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: garrett myrick CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: IRC Channel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: keithrab@ici.net From: keithrab@ici.net Subject: Re: IRC Channel PostedDate: 10/08/97 08:13:41 PM SendTo: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: keithrab@ici.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 08:46:47 PM-10/08/97 08:46:48 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 08:46:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US garrett myrick wrote: > > > Whats DALnet? > > Garrett DALNet is an internet chat network. You use a piece of software to connect to the network and you can talk to other people by typing messages. You can get a version of the software for Windows at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/6000/ If anyone needs any more help, mail me. Also, on DALNet I go by the nick "Daedalus_" --- Keith $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.0017DDB4; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:20:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA28672 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:08:12 -0700 Received: from hoser (in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA11504 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:04:21 -0500 From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Flying Photovores, anyone? Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 03:59:59 GMT Message-ID: <343d5583.1786699@hoser> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: bill_r@inetnebr.com From: bill_r@inetnebr.com Subject: Flying Photovores, anyone? PostedDate: 10/08/97 08:59:59 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 09:20:48 PM-10/08/97 09:20:49 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 09:20:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US For whoever it was who was talking about flying photovores recently, these guys might give you a good start. They sell radio-controlled indoor blimps, and motors and parts for them. The current draw on their "1/4 ounce" motors is a bit on the high side for solar power, though; 100ma at 4.8v, and up to an amp on some others. They've got props that look like they'd fit pager motors, though, and their "Ultra Micro Servo": Weight: .32 ounces Size: .94 x .43 x .83 in. Take a look. I found the address in an ad in the back of "Nuts and Volts" magazine this month. http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~jpiri -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.001B03E7; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:55:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA28710 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:42:39 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11692 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:38:14 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts17ip107.cadvision.com [207.228.68.107]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA106978; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:38:43 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971008222858.00a0f150@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 22:28:58 -0600 To: IMIvar@aol.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Solaroller record. In-Reply-To: <971008195750_1333263343@emout15.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Solaroller record. PostedDate: 10/08/97 09:28:58 PM SendTo: IMIvar@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/08/97 09:55:10 PM-10/08/97 09:55:11 PM DeliveredDate: 10/08/97 09:55:11 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:59 PM 10/8/1997 -0400, IMIvar@aol.com wrote: >My >question is, how fast is the current record for a solaroller is, so I know >how much faster I have to go to be competitive if I were to enter in a BEAM >olympics. Ohh, I'd say you're pretty competitive as-is. Seems to me that the last "official" record is around the 28 second mark, although I know that there are faster (Miller's) solarollers that do it in around 15 seconds (dat 'bout right, Miller?). -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.002885A7; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:22:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA28869 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:10:15 -0700 From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11964 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 01:54:02 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA18144 for Beam@webconn.com; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971009025458_471150137@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Beam@webconn.com Subject: Chat Room SMTPOriginator: EviLCodeR@aol.com From: EviLCodeR@aol.com Subject: Chat Room PostedDate: 10/08/97 11:54:58 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 12:22:39 AM-10/09/97 12:22:40 AM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 12:22:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Ok then its settled the Beam chat room will be on IRC. Server-Dal-Net Channel#BEAM_Robotics. try to get there and tell everyone but lets keep the room purely robotics... --Chris $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.0029A203; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:34:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA28881 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 00:22:14 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA11998 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:09:58 -0500 Received: from marvin (m021.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.230]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00198; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:05:11 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971009071057.006ea70c@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 17:10:57 +1000 To: NeTKiLL78@aol.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: It WORKS!!!! Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: It WORKS!!!! PostedDate: 10/09/97 12:10:57 AM SendTo: NeTKiLL78@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 12:34:54 AM-10/09/97 12:34:55 AM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 12:34:55 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 20:22 8/10/97 -0400, NeTKiLL78@aol.com wrote: >I just got my Solarengine kit on Tuesday and finally finshed it tonight, and >I would just like to say ITS ALIVE!!! It seems to run very well, just tha it I've FINALLY convinced somebody to help me assemble my solarengine! (Pesky quadriplegia makes it hard to solder) Now all I have to do is figure out how to make it move! I was thinking either LEGO Technics or cardboard wheels on an old coathanger any suggestions? Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/1142/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.004BE7A6; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:49:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA29184 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:36:34 -0700 Received: from ns2.unisource.be (ns2.unisource.be [194.119.225.57]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12378 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:11:25 -0500 Received: from mailgate.unisource.be (MAILGATE.unisource.be [194.119.228.11]) by ns2.unisource.be (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA20263 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:09:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mailgate.unisource.be with Microsoft Mail id <343D5555@mailgate.unisource.be>; Thu, 09 Oct 97 15:06:13 PDT From: "De Groote, Patrick" To: beam Subject: RE: PCB Date: Thu, 09 Oct 97 15:03:00 PDT Message-ID: <343D5555@mailgate.unisource.be> Encoding: 44 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 SMTPOriginator: PDG@unisource.be From: PDG@unisource.be Subject: RE: PCB PostedDate: 10/09/97 03:03:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 06:49:10 AM-10/09/97 06:49:11 AM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 06:49:11 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Talking about flexible printed circuit boards: I know that Rogers (a US based company), used to produce BendFlex (tm). This was a bendable (no, not flexible...) printed circuit board. It could be processed almost the same way as the usual phenolic or epoxy board types. The adherance of the copper to the substrate was slightly inferior to the phenolic and epoxy types. I'm not sure if Rogers is still producing these, but it could be worth checking out for anyone interested in using it. rgds Patrick ---------- From: DBFoster99[SMTP:DBFoster99@aol.com] Sent: 07 October 1997 10:42 To: korus; beam Subject: Re: PCB The Nov. '97 Electronics Now has an article you should check-out titled "A new way tomake PC boards. In a nutshell the author (Bill Green) prints directly on flexible copper foil with a laser printer, then glues it to perforated-construction board, or regular circut board material if you don't mind drilling. The copper foil is called "Z-Flex" made by Courtlands. It is a thin base material of flexible plastic with 1 mil. of copper electro-deposited on it. It is a bit expensive $45.00 for 5- 8"x10" sheets. This opens up a sorts of posibillitys for beam circuts in that being flexible you could glue it to curved serfaces of whatever. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652B.00730F10; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:56:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA01444 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:44:18 -0700 Received: from server1.integritynetwork.net ([208.142.50.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12919 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:28:02 -0500 Received: from BBS1 ([208.142.50.7]) by server1.integritynetwork.net (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 0-37065U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA238 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:27:22 -0500 Received: by BBS1 with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD52C.67B20AD0@BBS1>; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:27:15 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCD52C.67B20AD0@BBS1> From: crusader@integritynetwork.net (Mike Meskill) To: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Commo?? Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:27:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: crusader@integritynetwork.net From: crusader@integritynetwork.net Subject: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/10/97 01:27:14 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 01:57:01 PM-10/09/97 01:57:02 PM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 01:57:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I'm new to the list and have a few ideas... One interesting idea sparked by the pics and descrip. of the Turbot 3.0 (www.solarbotics.com/beam_2.html <-bottom of page) is a basic survival technique of "teaming-up"... Would it be possible to build B.E.A.M. bots capable of basic radio comunication? The idea being that one member of the team has found a great sun-spot and emitts a signal to the other RT equipped bots. Then the others could turn toward the source of transmission. Or much easier (and less power consuming) would be the use of sound (piezo buzzer?) and small microphones. he scheme could be set-up with higher frequencies for better light (or tough obstacles) and the bots are attracted to higher frequencies. Mike Meskil Network System Administrator Integrity Network Services $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.00067376; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:10:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA02814 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:58:01 -0700 Received: from q-com.com (q-com.com [209.16.209.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13388 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:50:47 -0500 Received: from [209.16.209.211] by q-com.com (SMTPD32-4.0) id AC0C9E00B2; Thu, 09 Oct 1997 19:51:24 -0500 Message-ID: <343D7B20.D2EC84E9@q-com.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 19:47:28 -0500 From: Todd Cottle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Subject: Low power, Low voltage Op Amp X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: cottle@q-com.com From: cottle@q-com.com Subject: Low power, Low voltage Op Amp PostedDate: 10/09/97 05:47:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 06:10:39 PM-10/09/97 06:10:40 PM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 06:10:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Linear Technology makes a low voltage (2.2V!) and low current (1.5uA!) op amp that looks very useful for Beam circuits. Rail-to-rail outputs as well. http://www.linear.com/cgi-bin/database?function=elementinhtml&filename=DataSheet.html&name=DataSheet&num=432 Contains a PDF data sheet and application note. Todd $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.000732A7; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:18:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02844 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:06:16 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13442 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:04:14 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA10767 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:10:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: IRS(Internet Robotics Society) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: IRS(Internet Robotics Society) PostedDate: 10/09/97 05:57:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 06:18:49 PM-10/09/97 06:18:49 PM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 06:18:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi everyone, A kid named Corey Hansen, some other kids and I, are trying to start a new robotics club. We need articles! I am trying to write an article on my robot, Mantis, but its not done yet. Maybe some of the gurus could write an article or two? Doesn't have to be anything fancy, but the IRS website is kinda boring when its empty... Thanks, Garrett PS) The IRS website is at: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/3470/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.0014C428; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:46:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03028 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 20:34:22 -0700 Received: from ns.cancom.net (ns.cancom.net [205.206.217.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14097 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:30:51 -0500 Received: from default (ts-duclos-p3.cancom.net [205.250.149.5]) by ns.cancom.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01375 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343D9F0B.741@cancom.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:20:44 -0300 From: Tenhawk Reply-To: tenhawk@cancom.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Beam Chat/correspondance? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tenhawk@cancom.net From: tenhawk@cancom.net Subject: Beam Chat/correspondance? PostedDate: 10/09/97 08:20:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: tenhawk@cancom.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 08:46:57 PM-10/09/97 08:46:58 PM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 08:46:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I dont know about the rest of you but I cant see a BEAM related chatroom working... there just arn't enough people... sure some people may go there and if they are VERY lucky they may even find someone else hanging around.... but its going to be a haphazard thing... So why not use ICQ or powwow? (ICQ - www.mirabilis.com) (powwow - www.tribal.com) Both work well enough on win95 and supposedly on win3.1 too... they both chgeck for online "buddy lists" and let you know whos on and when, they both have chat capability for unlimited (?) chatters.... and even the option of creating a chatroom if you so wish. ICQ tends to be more simple and elegant in its design then powwow but powwow has a few more advanced options... so I use both. If anybody wants to chat BEAM (albeit with a beginner) then catch me on ICQ where my UIN is 960780 or on powwow at tenhawk@cancom.net Hope to see some of you, Tenhawk - Memory Epsilon $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.002051EC; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:53:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03222 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:40:40 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14318 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:29:49 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20954 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:30:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21922; Thu, 9 Oct 97 23:29:32 MDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:33:38 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/09/97 11:33:38 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/09/97 10:53:12 PM-10/09/97 10:53:13 PM DeliveredDate: 10/09/97 10:53:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi. It's come up in discussion again so I just want to restate the basic licensing deal for marketing BEAM designs so that everybody is aware that this stuff is NOT public domain. Basically, if you're doing personal, for interest building then there's no worry, but if you plan to sell a kit based upon someone elses design (like Richards "Weaitball". Are you listening NASA?) then please give credit where credit is due. Bitter feelings can lead to lawyers. Please avoid at all costs. So you know, the official deal for marketing any Tilden-originated biomech design or portion thereof is 7% of gross sales through perpetuity up to a gross of $100k (US), after which it's 10%. If you plan to sell anyone elses designs, please talk to them first. We're mostly friendly. Honest. The Nervous Net patent and BEAM design copyrights and trademarks have been successfully defended twice in court with another pending. Even so, it generally doesn't look good if someone tries marketing an internationally recognized design without consessions to the designer, especially if there's evidence they knew beforehand that there was a licensing requirement. Turns out many democracies have basic laws against such things. But this is all just protection stuff in case Nv nets ever makes it big. Please note that the 7% is almost always requested as kits, which I then present to prominent researchers and other distinguished visitors. The devices advertize the seller, my visitors remember demos where they get a cool product, and the BEAM reputation grows a fraction. It's worked so well for Dave H. and others that we now have to consider transfer of funds, which are always poured into the BEAM Games pot (for the corruption of more accolites, what else). So it's a license, but it's mainly a mutually benificial BEAM tax. Thing is, if you're selling kits, then please send me an appropriate portion of any kits you sell (one out of every twenty, say. Remainder to cover postage), then everyone feels they've been properly done by and there's no paperwork necessary. If you're only going to make only ten kits for yourself and friends, then all I ask (unofficially) is that you spell my name correctly on the instructions (if you use Dave H.'s instructions, then you have to pronounce his name properly, which is arguably harder. Best get his permission first). The point is that I've learned firsthand how complexity not only kills robots, but it also kills roboticists. BEAMtech is a interesting, low-pressure research topic right now. I'd like to keep it that way for as long as possible. Thanks. Sincerely, Mark W. Tilden MSD454, LANL, Los Alamos, NM 87545 USA PS: For those that are interested, my minebot work is being shown this weekend (Oct 11-12) on "Discovery Magazine: Weapons of War") on the Discovery Channel. Check your guide for local listings. Saw the premire last night, and I'm calling this the "I've just washed my hat and I can't do a thing with it" interview. Yearg. Word of advice. Do your own makeup. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.00419A13; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:56:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03535 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:44:11 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14665 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 06:35:18 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07633 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710101136.HAA07633@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp27.buffnet.net(205.246.19.134) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma003614; Fri, 10 Oct 97 07:35:52 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: Flexible PCB's Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:43:45 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Flexible PCB's PostedDate: 10/10/97 04:43:45 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 04:56:37 AM-10/10/97 04:56:37 AM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 04:56:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Instead of paying BIg bucks for flexible PCB material why not make it yourself? Copper foil is easly obtained for about $20 per 10 feet. Then simply adhere it to almost anything, flexible plastic preferably. Put you design on it and then etch. It would take a little experimentation to get right perhaps but I don't see how it could not work. It'd be cheap and if you use surface mount stuff you could even laminate it when you are done. Dennison Bertram Of course. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.006762D1; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:49:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05029 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:36:54 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15611 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:27:26 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OyZ10329; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:16:33 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo?? Message-ID: <19971010.134650.7735.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <01BCD52C.67B20AD0@bbs1> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,12-13,17 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:16:33 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/10/97 11:16:33 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 11:49:18 AM-10/10/97 11:49:19 AM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 11:49:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:27:14 -0500 crusader@integritynetwork.net (Mike Meskill) writes: > Hi, I'm new to the list and have a few ideas... One >interesting idea sparked by the pics and descrip. of the Turbot >3.0 (www.solarbotics.com/beam_2.html <-bottom of page) is a basic >survival technique of "teaming-up"... Would it be possible to >build B.E.A.M. bots capable of basic radio comunication? The idea >being that one member of the team has found a great sun-spot and >emitts a signal to the other RT equipped bots. Then the others >could turn toward the source of transmission. Or much easier (and >less power consuming) would be the use of sound (piezo buzzer?) >and small microphones. he scheme could be set-up with higher >frequencies for better light (or tough obstacles) and the bots >are attracted to higher frequencies. miller and i were thinking of something similar only using a roving bot and a main base that was somewhat mobile.. i really like the idea but one thing we found was that radio isnt very directional.. tho sound or i.r. is.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.00678EE7; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:51:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05037 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:38:41 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15605 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:26:19 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OyY10329; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:16:33 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: IRC Channel Message-ID: <19971010.134650.7735.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,6-10,12-13,15 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:16:33 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: IRC Channel PostedDate: 10/10/97 11:16:33 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 11:51:11 AM-10/10/97 11:51:12 AM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 11:51:12 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:18:05 -0700 (PDT) garrett myrick writes: >On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Keith Barrette wrote: >> Hi, >> Just letting everyone know that I just set up >>#BEAM_Robotics on DALNet and I am looking for ops. If anyone >>needs help using DALNet, mail me and I'll be happy to help you >>out! >> --- Keith >Whats DALnet? >Garrett dalnet is this evil (j/k) irc network that some of my old friends moved to from undernet.. btw.. keith.. i used to be an ici user till i temporarily relocated to NJ.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.0068E28D; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:05:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA05096 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:53:10 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15608 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:27:17 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:25:40 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 10 Oct 97 11:27:37 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 10 Oct 97 11:27:35 +800 Received: from alan-ws.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 10 Oct 97 11:27:33 +800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971010112731.006dbd54@email.scrnet.com> X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:27:31 -0700 To: "Mark W. Tilden" From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/10/97 11:27:31 AM SendTo: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 12:05:40 PM-10/10/97 12:05:41 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 12:05:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark, Just curious, who holds the patent or trademarks for the name "BEAM" and for the basic SolorRoller / Photovore circuits? I am interested in putting some kits together (who isn't these days...) and really don't want to step on any toes. Alan Serl - Owner Serl Computer Research aserl@scrnet.com PS: You must have the coolest job on Earth! At 11:33 PM 10/9/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi. It's come up in discussion again so I just want to restate the basic >licensing deal for marketing BEAM designs so that everybody is aware that >this stuff is NOT public domain. Basically, if you're doing personal, for >interest building then there's no worry, but if you plan to sell a kit >based upon someone elses design (like Richards "Weaitball". Are you >listening NASA?) then please give credit where credit is due. Bitter >feelings can lead to lawyers. Please avoid at all costs. > >So you know, the official deal for marketing any Tilden-originated biomech >design or portion thereof is 7% of gross sales through perpetuity up to a >gross of $100k (US), after which it's 10%. If you plan to sell anyone >elses designs, please talk to them first. We're mostly friendly. Honest. > >The Nervous Net patent and BEAM design copyrights and trademarks have been >successfully defended twice in court with another pending. Even so, it >generally doesn't look good if someone tries marketing an internationally >recognized design without consessions to the designer, especially if >there's evidence they knew beforehand that there was a licensing >requirement. Turns out many democracies have basic laws against such >things. > >But this is all just protection stuff in case Nv nets ever makes it big. >Please note that the 7% is almost always requested as kits, which I then >present to prominent researchers and other distinguished visitors. The >devices advertize the seller, my visitors remember demos where they get a >cool product, and the BEAM reputation grows a fraction. It's worked so >well for Dave H. and others that we now have to consider transfer of funds, >which are always poured into the BEAM Games pot (for the corruption of more >accolites, what else). > >So it's a license, but it's mainly a mutually benificial BEAM tax. Thing >is, if you're selling kits, then please send me an appropriate portion of >any kits you sell (one out of every twenty, say. Remainder to cover >postage), then everyone feels they've been properly done by and there's no >paperwork necessary. If you're only going to make only ten kits for >yourself and friends, then all I ask (unofficially) is that you spell my >name correctly on the instructions (if you use Dave H.'s instructions, then >you have to pronounce his name properly, which is arguably harder. Best >get his permission first). > >The point is that I've learned firsthand how complexity not only kills >robots, but it also kills roboticists. BEAMtech is a interesting, >low-pressure research topic right now. I'd like to keep it that way for as >long as possible. > >Thanks. > >Sincerely, > >Mark W. Tilden >MSD454, LANL, >Los Alamos, NM 87545 >USA > >PS: For those that are interested, my minebot work is being shown this >weekend (Oct 11-12) on "Discovery Magazine: Weapons of War") on the >Discovery Channel. Check your guide for local listings. > >Saw the premire last night, and I'm calling this the "I've just washed my >hat and I can't do a thing with it" interview. Yearg. > >Word of advice. Do your own makeup. > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.006C2C86; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:41:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA05222 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:28:57 -0700 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15842 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:54:41 -0500 Received: from default (slip129-37-154-212.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.154.212]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA66562; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:55:11 GMT Message-ID: <343E7A7E.A464EAF6@golden.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:57:02 -0400 From: Andrew Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Serl CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.3.32.19971010112731.006dbd54@email.scrnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/10/97 11:57:02 AM SendTo: aserl@scrnet.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 12:41:38 PM-10/10/97 12:41:39 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 12:41:39 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Just curious, who holds the patent or trademarks for the name "BEAM" > and > for the basic SolorRoller / Photovore circuits? Mark Owns it all... He is lord Grand potentate and master of all that is BEAM.... He knows how to scare a weenie lawyer into submision too... So if you wanna fight it don't hire Marsha clark all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.006FAFD1; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:19:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA05419 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:07:23 -0700 Received: from glinda.oz.net (glinda.oz.net [208.154.100.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16109 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:31:17 -0500 Received: from everett1 (sense-sea-pm11-3.oz.net [208.154.97.67]) by glinda.oz.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13572; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710101931.MAA13572@glinda.oz.net> From: "Rick and Debora Everett" To: , "Nyt wulf" Subject: Re: Commo?? Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:36:19 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: DebEverett@pobox.com From: DebEverett@pobox.com Subject: Re: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/10/97 12:36:19 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,nytwulf@juno.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 01:20:02 PM-10/10/97 01:20:03 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 01:20:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ---------- > From: Nyt wulf > To: beam@webconn.com > Subject: Re: Commo?? > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 11:16 AM > > On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 03:27:14 -0500 crusader@integritynetwork.net (Mike > Meskill) writes: > > Hi, I'm new to the list and have a few ideas... One > >interesting idea sparked by the pics and descrip. of the Turbot >3.0 > (www.solarbotics.com/beam_2.html <-bottom of page) is a basic >survival > technique of "teaming-up"... Would it be possible to >build B.E.A.M. > bots capable of basic radio comunication? The idea >being that one member > of the team has found a great sun-spot and >emitts a signal to the other > RT equipped bots. Then the others >could turn toward the source of > transmission. Or much easier (and >less power consuming) would be the use > of sound (piezo buzzer?) >and small microphones. he scheme could be > set-up with higher >frequencies for better light (or tough obstacles) and > the bots >are attracted to higher frequencies. > > miller and i were thinking of something similar only using a roving bot > and a main base that was somewhat mobile.. i really like the idea but one > thing we found was that radio isnt very directional.. tho sound or i.r. > is.. Isn't directionalability a function of frequency? Wouldn't light be more directional than radio waves, and radio waves be MORE directional than sound? Richard $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.00816D89; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:33:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06570 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:21:14 -0700 Received: from hoser (in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA16767 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:08:22 -0500 From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:04:03 GMT Message-ID: <3444b202.156537188@hoser> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: bill_r@inetnebr.com From: bill_r@inetnebr.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/10/97 04:04:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 04:33:45 PM-10/10/97 04:33:46 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 04:33:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Let me say first off that I'm not trying to play games with this post; I'm honestly curious about the arrangement. I was under the impression that many of the "BEAM" technologies were developed by people working at Los Alamos National Labs. Isn't this a government facility? Is the operation paid for by tax dollars? If so, and these devices were developed under these conditions, then don't the patents, royalties, etc, belong to the government? (And just who is that, anyway? I always see people (including myself) referring to "The Government" as though it's a separate entity from the rest of us. But I digress...) Again, I'm not trying to play "armchair lawyer"; I'm just curious what the setup is, because if I develop something on my employer's time and try to sell it on my own, I'm in deep doo. I do admire the approach of taking some kits in trade for royalties, to be handed out to people to help spread interest in the technology, at any rate. Can someone clarify this for me? Mark, maybe? >At 11:33 PM 10/9/97 -0700, Mark Tilden wrote: >> >>So you know, the official deal for marketing any Tilden-originated biomech >>design or portion thereof is 7% of gross sales through perpetuity up to a >>gross of $100k (US), after which it's 10%. If you plan to sell anyone >>elses designs, please talk to them first. We're mostly friendly. Honest. >> -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652C.00833AE1; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:53:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06619 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:40:56 -0700 Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA16838 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:24:16 -0500 Received: from nan-as-01c14.direct.ca [204.174.246.142] (mjcurrie) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xJoQT-0002RT-00; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: <343EB895.B2562463@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:21:57 -0700 From: Matt Currie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Dead microcore? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5B5E191902694393C7F5D4A5" $FILE: SMTPOriginator: mjcurrie@direct.ca From: mjcurrie@direct.ca Subject: Dead microcore? PostedDate: 10/10/97 04:21:57 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 04:53:31 PM-10/10/97 04:53:32 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 04:53:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I built the microcore today. It actually worked. Only problem is some of the lights stay on. Can anyone tell me why? Is my 74hct14 shot or is it a bad connection with the caps( I had to use .10's). Also does anyone know any symptoms of a broken chip? It would really help. Thanks. -Matt - att1.htm $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.0005D0A2; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:03:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06758 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:51:04 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17140 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:28:45 -0500 Received: from roger ([198.80.53.145]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149724-11787>; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:34:45 -0600 Message-ID: <343EC834.68CB@planet.eon.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:28:36 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5360/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: NV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: NV PostedDate: 10/10/97 05:28:36 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 06:03:38 PM-10/10/97 06:03:39 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 06:03:39 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just hooked up the Micro-core on my bread board, and am just wondering... How do you make it goto the right state of operation everytime you turn on the power without manually bypassing the resistor? Roger $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.0007AD50; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:23:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA06841 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:11:24 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17200 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:57:14 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09663 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710110058.UAA09663@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp42.buffnet.net(205.246.19.149) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma016089; Fri, 10 Oct 97 20:57:36 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: BEAM complexity Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:05:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: BEAM complexity PostedDate: 10/10/97 06:05:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 06:23:53 PM-10/10/97 06:23:54 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 06:23:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Not to scare anybody but Mark may be right. Complexity ruins almost anyting, and even more so for the hobbyist. Anyone remeber the "good old days" when people actually wire wrapped their OWN HOME COMPUTER!!!! that they actually USED??? When robots were Relays and Analog timer's? Now computers are so complex building your own is beyond impossible. The home Robots flared durring the 80's but died a rather quick death, mostly because they cost too much. For now it seems that beam robots are a fairly simple technology with enormous potential. And it's the potential that the problem. As soon as their are competitors competing for technology and patents and distribution You can bet your money that that potential will be exploited. But alas that is the way of the world. And all we have to do is keep up. Dennison Bertram Of course. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.001001BF; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:54:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA06978 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:42:23 -0700 Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17495 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:31:35 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d69.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.69]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id VAA23026 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:28:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971010213154.00946ec0@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:32:03 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? PostedDate: 10/10/97 07:32:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 07:54:57 PM-10/10/97 07:54:57 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 07:54:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Solarbotics has 1F Panasonic Caps that take 2.5 V. Now this is not a problem by itself, but what happens when you put 3.7 v or 4v in if you use the 2.5V cap? Do you degrade the cap or does the cap just not hold any more then the 2.5 max? If I have the 5.75V solar cell, should I use the 5.5V caps by Panasonic or can I use the 2.5V caps still? Is there anything I should think about? Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.001004EF; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:54:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA06981 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:42:37 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17475 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:24:47 -0500 Received: from ts39ip158.cadvision.com (ts39ip158.cadvision.com [207.228.71.158]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id UAA85600; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:25:02 -0600 Received: by ts39ip158.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD5B9.22B6C280@ts39ip158.cadvision.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:14:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCD5B9.22B6C280@ts39ip158.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Dennison'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: BEAM complexity Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:14:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: BEAM complexity PostedDate: 10/10/97 07:14:35 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 07:55:07 PM-10/10/97 07:55:08 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 07:55:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Not to scare anybody but Mark may be right. Complexity ruins almost anyting, and even more so for the hobbyist. Anyone remeber the "good old days" when people actually wire wrapped their OWN HOME COMPUTER!!!! that they actually USED??? To my knowledge the people who wire wrapped their own puter, Are comparable to people who can make their own now, in their advancement. I could, just I'de need to "refresh" my oscilliscope know how. High end computers are very hard to build, without SMT equip and a computer enginieering technology degree, but not impossible. When robots were Relays and Analog timer's? Now computers are so complex building your own is beyond impossible. The home Robots flared durring the 80's but died a rather quick death, mostly because they cost too much. For now it seems that beam robots are a fairly simple technology with enormous potential. And it's the potential that the problem. As soon as their are competitors competing for technology and patents and distribution You can bet your money that that potential will be exploited. Well actually right now, all the technology is patented by one person, the reason for it's potential is so that regular people can build great robots, for their own enjoyment, and not be millionares. Sure NASA stole richards miniball, but if they seriously are going to use it, and not just have it be another idea on a peice of paper, I'de expect to see a possible suit. And the whole reason IS competition, not between huge corporations, but between regular people showing how their bot has advantages to others in BEAM games. It speeds of the evoloution of beam, more people interested, more people build better robots, people have one hell of a good time. But alas that is the way of the world. And all we have to do is keep up. If that's true, this isn't the world that I know. When someone gets up to date with marks know how, it will be years after he dies. Why ponder about the future, when we know it is going to happen, if we all sat and pondered, the technology might never happen. As a wise man once said "Less thinking, MORE building!" Devin "If a tree falls in the woods on a mine, does it make a sound?" "What is the sound of 1 mime trapped in a box?" -me $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.00123E01; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:19:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA07020 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 20:06:35 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17740 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:51:19 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco12-190.cas.golden.net [209.29.14.190]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA06937 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343EEAA1.44C7@golden.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:55:47 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. References: <3444b202.156537188@hoser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/10/97 07:55:47 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/10/97 08:19:27 PM-10/10/97 08:19:28 PM DeliveredDate: 10/10/97 08:19:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Bill Richman wrote: > > I was under the impression that many of the "BEAM" technologies were developed by people working at Los Alamos National Labs. That "people" _IS_ Mark Tilden... Other than a couple of semi usuful grad students (children of bosses) that have used his work to write papers (quite oposite to the way it is usually done) nobody else at Los alamos can lay any claim on BEAM Tech... When I say Mark Is lord and master I'm not being humorous its true... He is the only one who truly understand everything that Biomorphics is capable of... And trust me it goes a _LOT_ farther than solar rollers... I've know Mark Longer than just about anyone on this list and I'm still bamboozeled by what that great big shiney cranium of his is capable of coming up with... "BEAM" as a concept and as a bizness was somthing that Mark created before he became an employee at LANL and as such it's his... In fact the BEAM bank account is at at canadian bank just down the block from my house... > Isn't this a government > facility? Not officially anymore its now part of the university of california... But unofficially it still is the guberment muckin things up.... But since its officially an educational institution you don't automatically sign away your rights as you walk in ... There are a lot of profesors and research types that are allowed to work at specific Universities and develope comercially viable products and then are allowed to patent them... Hell, Ponds anf Flechman even filed for a private patent on cold fusion.... >Is the operation paid for by tax dollars? If so, and these No, Mark Grubs and scrapes for every cent of funding all private or apportion Way before he gets it... And for every dollar he is given he actually only sees $.20.. He has to pay LANL rather inflated rent for the space he's in and consulting fees for lawyers he's never met etc. etc.... Shity working conditions but you gotta get somthing... > devices were developed under these conditions, then don't the patents, > royalties, etc, belong to the government? Nope so far he has managed to very cafully keep it his for the most part... The patent on the MicroCore which basically covers all BEAM tech was filed Before Mark started at LANL... Anyhow I figure I defended the position enough, Mark feel free to kick my ass and tell me I'm wrong.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.002ACD19; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:47:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA07245 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:35:03 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA18326 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 02:28:38 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-02.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.3]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA27401 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:33:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. In-Reply-To: <343E7A7E.A464EAF6@golden.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/11/97 12:33:13 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 12:47:42 AM-10/11/97 12:47:42 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 12:47:42 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Andrew Miller wrote: > > Just curious, who holds the patent or trademarks for the name "BEAM" > > and > > for the basic SolorRoller / Photovore circuits? > > Mark Owns it all... > He is lord Grand potentate and master of all that is BEAM.... If you call something BEAM, then you have to deal with Mark Tilden. And at times it seems like Mark has had every good idea you might think of. But of course that isn't true. I feel rather proud of Mark having once said: "Steven Bolt's stuff is a fine example of an alternate technology that includes none of our stuff, and it's a good bit of work." My little Photovore didn't happen because I wanted to avoid patents or anything. I just wanted to use motors that need *much* less power to run continuously, and then I had this flash on how to make a robot reverse and manoeuver around obstacles without reversing the motors. Great fun! So I made it the subject of a Webpage, hoping to share. I didn't do any patenting, because I think this idea has no general use. It is limited to a particular kind of gadget. A number of Mark's ideas are not so limited, and he is quite right to patent them, to keep them out of evil hands. There is a long road ahead for robots, and even for small, solar powered things. I am convinced that the greatest idea's are still waiting for someone to have them! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.002FA240; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 01:40:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07257 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 01:27:38 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA18440 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 03:16:29 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-02.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.3]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id KAA01525; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:17:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:20:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Weylan Wang cc: Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971010213154.00946ec0@pop.interaccess.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? PostedDate: 10/11/97 01:20:59 AM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 01:40:21 AM-10/11/97 01:40:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 01:40:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Weylan Wang wrote: > Now this is not a problem by itself, but what happens when you put 3.7 v or > 4v in if you use the 2.5V cap? I remember once accidentaly putting about 25V on a 16V rated cap. It went off like a bomb! Loud bang, cloud of dust in the room, two connecting wires pointing absolutely straight in opposite directions, one still attaced to the can of the cap, the other to the lid. Its plates were a roll of grey stuff on the floor somewhere. Now this cap was just 100uF. Yet the explosion was quite powerful, and I'm not sure about that dust coming out. Ever since I've been weary of putting too much tension on caps, especially large ones... > If I have the 5.75V solar cell, should I use the 5.5V caps by Panasonic or > can I use the 2.5V caps still? Is there anything I should think about? Depends on whether your circuitry actually allows the voltage to rise above 2.5V. I'm not sure if an explosion is possible with so little current available, but voltages higher than a cap's rating are likely to damage the cap. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.0040EF85; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:49:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA07341 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 04:36:48 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA18689 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:24:07 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id HIF12100; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 07:24:28 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo?? Message-ID: <19971011.065553.7735.0.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199710101931.MAA13572@glinda.oz.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,4-5,8 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 07:24:28 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/11/97 04:24:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 04:49:20 AM-10/11/97 04:49:21 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 04:49:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:36:19 -0700 "Rick and Debora Everett" writes: >Isn't directionalability a function of frequency? Wouldn't light >be more directional than radio waves, and radio waves be MORE >directional than sound? well it is to my knoladge easier to figure out which direction a sound is coming from then a radio wave.. *shrugs* enlighten me please if i am wrong.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.0049DD90; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:26:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA07369 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 06:14:09 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18859 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:12:19 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco1-34.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.34]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA25716; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <343F7C51.2AD0@golden.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:17:05 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Weylan Wang CC: Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? References: <3.0.32.19971010213154.00946ec0@pop.interaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: 2.5 V cap with <4V input. Is it ok? PostedDate: 10/11/97 06:17:05 AM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 06:26:58 AM-10/11/97 06:26:59 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 06:26:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Weylan Wang wrote: > > what happens when you put 3.7 v or > 4v in if you use the 2.5V cap? > > Do you degrade the cap or does the cap just not hold any more then the 2.5 > max? > Actually the high grade gold caps sold by Solarbotics are in quite a few BEAM devices and with slow charging ie using a solar cell they will take 3-4V with repeated charge-dischage cycles for years with little prformance degridation... So provided you're not sticking them on a battery then shorting them over and over I wouldn't worry about it..... it's another example of "things they don't tell you on the data sheet" that us BEAMers have discovered.... For instance the enables on an 74ALS245 are liniear over a narow voltage range... No data sheet printed will tell you this... But Mark tried it one day and Boom there you have it.... Same goes with solar cells, caps, transistors, etc etc.... A lot of them will do things that they were never rated or designed for that turn out to be very benificial for BEAM tech... Do you thing the Flashing LED or the Happy Birthday singer was ever ment to act as a supercritical threshold device?? BEAM stuff has an advatge of generally being low power so plugging things in backwards probably won't do you any harm... And some really cool discoveries come out of the experimentation..... " Some of the best things in the world were invented by people that didn't know it couldn't be done"...am When in doubt put everything in the wrong way around and turn it on... the worst that can happen is you let the smoke out.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.004FFF95; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 07:33:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07412 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 07:21:20 -0700 Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19028 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:12:46 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d88.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.88]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id JAA04306 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:09:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971011091300.0095aa50@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:13:10 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: Magbutterfly like thing I want to play with. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: Magbutterfly like thing I want to play with. PostedDate: 10/11/97 07:13:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 07:33:53 AM-10/11/97 07:33:54 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 07:33:54 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am trying to get a critter to not fall off of a window sill. I would like to try to build something like the magbutterfly that uses a coil and a magnet. Any one have any suggestions? Wire wind for the coil? Core for coil? Size of the coil? Strength of magnet? Balancing? As you can see I am new to coils. :-) Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.005B06A9; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:34:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07450 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:21:52 -0700 Received: from quasar.newtonlabs.com (quasar.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.97]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19219 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:16:42 -0500 Received: from bogomips.newtonlabs.com (rsargent@bogomips.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.108]) by quasar.newtonlabs.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA24580; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:17:17 -0700 Received: (from rsargent@localhost) by bogomips.newtonlabs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07643; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:17:19 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:17:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199710111617.JAA07643@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> From: Randy Sargent To: beam@webconn.com Subject: directionality SMTPOriginator: rsargent@newtonlabs.com From: rsargent@newtonlabs.com Subject: directionality PostedDate: 10/11/97 09:17:19 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 09:34:26 AM-10/11/97 09:34:27 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 09:34:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) > > On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:36:19 -0700 "Rick and Debora Everett" > writes: > >Isn't directionalability a function of frequency? Wouldn't light >be > more directional than radio waves, and radio waves be MORE >directional > than sound? > > well it is to my knoladge easier to figure out which direction a sound is > coming from then a radio wave.. *shrugs* enlighten me please if i am > wrong.. I think it's probably due to wavelength of signal vs. size of detector. Light has a really tiny wavelength. Sound, while typically much lower frequency than typical radio, is usually travelling through air, so it's much slower and has a correspondingly shorter wavelength. The very rough number I remember for the speed of sound is around 1 foot per millisecond (i'm sure this could be off by a factor of two). A 100 Hz sound maybe has a wavelength of 10 feet (probably too large to mess with without a really large detector), but 5 Khz maybe has a wavelength of around 2 inches. (I know that the phone company did a lot of research on what frequencies a phone ringer needed to have in order for humans to be able to locate the sound easily -- humans can locate some frequencies better than others). The speed of light, on the other hand, is pretty dang fast, around 300,000,000 meters/second. Radio waves have a fairly high wavelength. Let's take radio somewhere in the FM audio radio band, say 100 Mhz. That has a wavelength of 3 meters. I think it's not till you get to microwave where you get a wavelength small enough to deal with for directionality on a small scale. Also, when I say size of detector, I don't actually mean you need a microphone 5 inches in size to detect directionality of a 5 inch wavelength sound. Just as some examples (I'm sure there are more approaches), the ways of detecting direction I remember seeing are: 1) Measure phase difference between multiple small detectors. (Humans can do this with their two ears). This requires spacing between detectors some fraction of the expected wavelength. 2) Physically obstruct the signal coming from certain directions. (Humans do this too. This is also the approach you'd take if you're using photocells without lenses). This requires the blocker to be at least around the size of the wavelength. 3) Focus the signal coming from a (possibly narrow) set of directions onto a detector. This requires the lens or reflecting surface to be at least around the size of the wavelength. (For all I know the shape of the human external ear helps with this too. I know that at least some animals have ears that look rather shaped for focusing sounds, and can even point these ears.) -- Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Sargent Newton Research Labs Senior Design Engineer Robotic Systems and Software rsargent@newtonlabs.com http://www.newtonlabs.com/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.0064C561; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:20:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07518 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:07:56 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19425 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:05:57 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-00.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.1]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id UAA07692 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:06:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:10:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo?? In-Reply-To: <199710101931.MAA13572@glinda.oz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/11/97 11:10:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 11:20:47 AM-10/11/97 11:20:48 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 11:20:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Rick and Debora Everett wrote: > Isn't directionalability a function of frequency? Wouldn't light be more > directional than radio waves, and radio waves be MORE directional than > sound? It is a matter of wave length rather than frequency. Because the speed of sound is rather less than the speed of light, sound waves are a lot shorter than radio waves, at convenient frequencies. For instance, at 40KHz a sound wave has a length of about 340 / 40,000 = less than 1 cm, while a radio wave at 27MHz is 3e8 / 27e6 = 11 meters. So a good directional antenna tends to be large, and won't work too well close to the transmitter, unless you go for illegally and expensively high frequencies. Also, radio waves tend to reflect a lot. Indoors and between buildings the reflections are likely to interfere with one another and the main signal. this will creat `dead zones' and make the signal appear to come from the wrong direction. In general, a simple `bot will have to be able to see the thing he is supposed to track, and tracking a (modulated) light source is relatively easy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.00661391; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:34:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07528 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:22:25 -0700 Received: from norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.1.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19491 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:18:36 -0500 Received: from ryan.shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.8.13]) by norquay.cal.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA11586; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:14:41 -0600 Message-ID: <343FC243.C3482A44@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:15:32 -0600 From: Ryan Hulsker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger Korus CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: NV X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <343EC834.68CB@planet.eon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca From: ryan.hulsker@shaw.wave.ca Subject: Re: NV PostedDate: 10/11/97 11:15:32 AM SendTo: korus@planet.eon.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 11:35:04 AM-10/11/97 11:35:05 AM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 11:35:05 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Roger Korus wrote: > I just hooked up the Micro-core on my bread board, and am just > wondering... How do you make it goto the right state of operation > everytime you turn on the power without manually bypassing the > resistor? > > Roger Try the beam Tek FAQ at http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html go to the bottom of the page, the second last question is " Is there a way to make a device to automatically stabalize the loop to one process whenever it is activated? " I think this is what you are looking for. Ryan Hulsker $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.007612D9; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:29:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07616 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:17:00 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19797 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:18:17 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09283 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27042; Sat, 11 Oct 97 15:17:51 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <343EEAA1.44C7@golden.net> References: <3444b202.156537188@hoser> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:21:59 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/11/97 03:21:59 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 02:29:43 PM-10/11/97 02:29:43 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 02:29:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Bill Richman wrote: >> >> I was under the impression that many of the "BEAM" technologies were >>developed by people working at Los Alamos National Labs. > >That "people" _IS_ Mark Tilden... ... >"BEAM" as a concept and as a bizness was somthing that Mark created >before he became an employee at LANL and as such it's his... >In fact the BEAM bank account is at at canadian bank just down the block >from my house... ... >Anyhow I figure I defended the position enough, Mark feel free to kick >my ass and tell me I'm wrong.... Nope. More or less accurate. markt $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.008169FF; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:33:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA07696 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:21:04 -0700 Received: from hoser (in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20142 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:17:50 -0500 From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:13:07 GMT Message-ID: <344104c5.284058@hoser> References: <3444b202.156537188@hoser> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: bill_r@inetnebr.com From: bill_r@inetnebr.com Subject: Re: BEAM copyrights, trademarks, licensing and etc. PostedDate: 10/11/97 04:13:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 04:33:43 PM-10/11/97 04:33:44 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 04:33:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US You used the words "defended the position"; again, I will reiterate that I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, therefore there should be no need to "defend" anything. I was simply curious as to the arrangement. Finding out that BEAM is "owned" by someone was a bit of a disappointment; it's sort of like when someone bought the rights to Woodstock, or the boneheads that trademarked the word "waldo" when used to refer to a remote robotic manipulator. I'm sure I'll never make a dime using the stuff, nor was it ever even remotely my intent to do anything beyond play with it as a hobby. I think the ideas and philosophies behind BEAM are elegant and admirable, and I smile to myself every time I see my little "PhotoPopper" sitting atop my monitor staring at me with his LED's and antennae. I guess I just don't deal well with restrictions. My problem, I realize, but that's why I wanted to know the whole story. On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:21:59 -0700, you wrote: >>Bill Richman wrote: >>> >>> I was under the impression that many of the "BEAM" technologies were >>>developed by people working at Los Alamos National Labs. >> >>That "people" _IS_ Mark Tilden... >... >>"BEAM" as a concept and as a bizness was somthing that Mark created >>before he became an employee at LANL and as such it's his... >>In fact the BEAM bank account is at at canadian bank just down the block >>from my house... >... >>Anyhow I figure I defended the position enough, Mark feel free to kick >>my ass and tell me I'm wrong.... > >Nope. More or less accurate. > >markt > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652D.00818E50; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:35:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA07699 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:22:28 -0700 Received: from hoser (in221.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20181 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:20:50 -0500 From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Magbutterfly like thing I want to play with. Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:16:09 GMT Message-ID: <34420811.1128853@hoser> References: <3.0.32.19971011091300.0095aa50@pop.interaccess.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971011091300.0095aa50@pop.interaccess.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: bill_r@inetnebr.com From: bill_r@inetnebr.com Subject: Re: Magbutterfly like thing I want to play with. PostedDate: 10/11/97 04:16:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 04:35:15 PM-10/11/97 04:35:16 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 04:35:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've had pretty good luck cutting the coils out of "Walkman" style headphones, and using them with rare-earth magnets from Radio Shack. Just carefully cut the mylar speaker cone with an Exacto-knife right around the outside edge of the coil, and cut or desolder them from the connection pads on the back of the speaker. Be careful not to rip the wires out of the mylar while you're doing this. On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:13:10 -0500, you wrote: >I am trying to get a critter to not fall off of a window sill. I would >like to try to build something like the magbutterfly that uses a coil and a >magnet. > >Any one have any suggestions? > >Wire wind for the coil? >Core for coil? >Size of the coil? >Strength of magnet? >Balancing? > >As you can see I am new to coils. :-) > >Weylan Wang >847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular >847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652E.000225ED; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:23:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07712 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:10:59 -0700 Received: from gatem02.netusa1.net (gatem02.netusa1.net [205.139.170.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20508 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:11:31 -0500 Received: from default (kok-98.netusa1.net [206.150.216.98]) by gatem02.netusa1.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01833 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710112314.TAA01833@gatem02.netusa1.net> From: "Charles \"Chip\" McCoy" To: Subject: TV Personality Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:14:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: chipm@netusa1.net From: chipm@netusa1.net Subject: TV Personality PostedDate: 10/11/97 05:14:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 05:23:34 PM-10/11/97 05:23:34 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 05:23:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Did anyone see M Tilden on Discovery? Finally got to see how this stuff is supposed to work. I've got some work to do........ Chip McCoy Supervisor of Advanced Service Engineering Delco Electronics - Kokomo, IN. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652E.000C5EA4; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:15:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07774 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:02:34 -0700 Received: from planet.eon.net (eeyore.eon.net [199.185.220.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20787 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:58:31 -0500 Received: from roger ([198.80.53.157]) by planet.eon.net with SMTP id <149515-10495>; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:04:25 -0600 Message-ID: <34402EF6.3BD2@planet.eon.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:59:18 -0600 From: Roger Korus Organization: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5360/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Micro core Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: korus@eon.net From: korus@planet.eon.net Subject: Micro core PostedDate: 10/11/97 06:59:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 07:15:08 PM-10/11/97 07:15:09 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 07:15:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I would just like to anounce taht I have made my micro-core drive motors, (I'm so happy). I guess now I'll start working on a frame and legs for the motors... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652E.00192DF5; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:35:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA07842 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:22:33 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21000 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:13:22 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01942 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710120414.AAA01942@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp46.buffnet.net(205.246.19.153) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma015619; Sun, 12 Oct 97 00:13:39 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: BI-core Patents and My Bio-Bot. Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:21:46 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: BI-core Patents and My Bio-Bot. PostedDate: 10/11/97 09:21:46 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/11/97 09:35:07 PM-10/11/97 09:35:08 PM DeliveredDate: 10/11/97 09:35:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey Mark, if your listening I have a question, does your patent for microcore's and the hook up of inverters in a circular form apply to other types of logic that emulate the 74xx14"s behavor? for example with a biocore useing NAND gates count? And couldn't NAND gate be used in a core for an interesting Stop/start inhibit sort of thing? By the way useing your biocore I've come up with a two motor roller that has neat potential for wheeled robot implementation of Nv nets. I call it Bi-bot. I know not origanal but what am I gonna do. I've found that when hooked up in a special way, (the bot moves one motor forward then the other) useing light sensors the 'bot has a greater chance of detecting light. Mabey I'll explore it. I built my first walker, The microcore was the easy part. My mechanics suck Caps. Alas. And for some reason, so do my solarengins. Mabey it's me. But hey now I get to plug away till it works. MY School is starting a school beam club, so I'm looking forward to it. If Dave's listening I'd love to see a PCB schematic for the solaroller kit. I know, I know it's so simple I should be able to make one. AND I can, trust me. But I'm testing my FLEDS it sounds strange but I think I got a badish bunch of them. REALLY one LED is missing even the flasher chip (it looks stuck inside the red plastic floating) but still lights but with a yello HOT glow. Others work, seeminlgy but they don't have a high trigger. Oh well. I need solarcells anyway. Dennison Bertram Of course. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652E.002A1D63; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:40:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA07929 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:27:31 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21214 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:26:18 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts49ip228.cadvision.com [207.228.72.228]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id BAA139136; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 01:26:49 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971011221959.00a1e220@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:19:59 -0600 To: "Charles \"Chip\" McCoy" , From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: TV Personality In-Reply-To: <199710112314.TAA01833@gatem02.netusa1.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: TV Personality PostedDate: 10/11/97 09:19:59 PM SendTo: chipm@netusa1.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/12/97 12:40:09 AM-10/12/97 12:40:10 AM DeliveredDate: 10/12/97 12:40:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:14 PM 10/11/1997 -0500, Charles \"Chip\" McCoy wrote: >Did anyone see M Tilden on Discovery? Finally got to see how this stuff is >supposed to work. I've got some work to do........ Don't think it made it into Canada - couldn't find the program on the Canadian Channel. Oh well... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652E.007C5A14; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:38:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA08302 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:25:45 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21829 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:54:30 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22355; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28969; Sun, 12 Oct 97 15:53:54 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710120414.AAA01942@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:58:02 -0700 To: Dennison From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: BI-core Patents and My Bio-Bot. Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BI-core Patents and My Bio-Bot. PostedDate: 10/12/97 03:58:02 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/12/97 03:38:25 PM-10/12/97 03:38:25 PM DeliveredDate: 10/12/97 03:38:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Hey Mark, if your listening I have a question, does your patent for >microcore's and the hook up of inverters in a circular form apply to other >types of logic that emulate the 74xx14"s behavor? for example with a >biocore useing NAND gates count? And couldn't NAND gate be used in a core >for an interesting Stop/start inhibit sort of thing? Yes I'm afraid. Essentially, the Nv controller patent covers any looped chain of differentiators used for control purposes. It's what's called a "basic patent". It even covers simulations of the circuit. There are all kinds of ways of making a Nv core from transistors to tubes, but the shmitt trigger method is the easiest and most reliable. But don't sweat it. The last thing I'd do is come down on experimenters. If you built a BEAM machine from the schematics then buy yourself a beer. The electronics are easy, it's the mechanics that are so wierdly difficult. Please understand what I thought Nv nets meant for the field of research robotics so many moons ago. I've seen so many machines built first, programmed next and fail completely that it's sickening. Nv controllers give you quick, capable, minimal artifical life with high noise immunity and efficiency, and the last thing you have to worry about is where the RS232 port has to go. You can build better, more efficient bodies, and best of all, the skills to make them faster and more creative. What's happening now is that many who Nv'd now realize their new platforms are powerful enough to put computers on. No problem because at least they have a standard by which they can measure machine performance. People with robobody skills have an excellent chance of making walkers that, without tethers, cables, counterbalances, large batteries, or human belief, actually walk, and certainly at a nice price. You have no idea how rare that is. The point is the controller is not the big deal (I'm fairly certain that a completely competent clockwork creature could be built without any electronics at all). It's the mechanical skills and best of all, the mechanical variations that make the field interesting. People who build kits are good, people who build without kits are great, and people who build with complete novelty are the best. Keep scanning those creations. The more we see, the better we can cite you for your style. Will nervous nets ever be commercially viable? I don't know. I've tried the obvious routes and there are just so many strange obstacles. But please don't let the patent or offical requirements scare people away from experimentation. There are vast fields completely unexplored. As Matt Moses once said "There's just so much to do." Please don't be put off by controller Nv. (Ooo, bad.) >By the way useing your biocore I've come up with a two motor roller that >has neat potential for wheeled robot implementation of Nv nets. I call it >Bi-bot. I know not origanal but what am I gonna do. I've found that when >hooked up in a special way, (the bot moves one motor forward then the >other) useing light sensors the 'bot has a greater chance of detecting >light. Your Bio-bot rover sounds cool. The use of active scanning to assist in phototaxis is a well known technique although it is not thouroughly understood how it works. A rover that uses such a technique is using circumnutative motion as many plants and insects do for fine-tuning their position relevant to a stimulus source. Active scanning, it seems, has tracking advantages which might explain how insects can target the dead vision center of your windshield. More research is required. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652F.003E25C1; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:18:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09003 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:06:09 -0700 Received: from eciweb.elcorteingles.es ([194.179.126.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22450 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:26:47 -0500 Received: from arroba.arroba.com ([128.90.14.5]) by eciweb.elcorteingles.es (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA5022; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:24:20 +0200 From: sebastian_dols@ieci.es (IECISA: Sebastian Dols Amengual) To: "Rick and Debora Everett" , , "Nyt wulf" Subject: RE: Commo?? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:26:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 Message-ID: <19971013102418.AAA5022@arroba.arroba.com> SMTPOriginator: sebastian_dols@ieci.es From: sebastian_dols@ieci.es Subject: RE: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/13/97 04:26:25 AM SendTo: DebEverett@pobox.com,beam@webconn.com,nytwulf@juno.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 04:18:59 AM-10/13/97 04:18:59 AM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 04:18:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Isn't directionalability a function of frequency? Wouldn't light be more >directional than radio waves, and radio waves be MORE directional than >sound? > > >Richard > ---- First of all... ligth and radio travels over electromagnetic fields... sound travels as waves of pressure through phisical media (air/water/stone/thingslikethis) . This discards (or difficults) the use of sound for out-of-the-earth BEAM communication ;) The radiation pattern of a transmission device is dependant on various factors, and one of them is the shape and dimensions of the antenna both in emitter and receiver sides. In case of ligth, a basic bulb is very omnidirectional, and a maglite (TM) ;) is very directional, and laser is the paradigm. In case of sound, it happens the same. It depends on your speaker/mouth and your michrophone/ear/whatever. The problem is that is a lot easier to do a very directional emitter or receiver antenna for ligth or sound than for radio waves. If you wanto to do a microwave emitter/receiver link, wich is very directional, I think your 'bot will be unable to carry or manage or provide enough power for an useful link. And in this case... if your bots aren't aligned.. they can not cummunicate. I think the solution will be a very omnidirectional emitter and a very directional receiver.. But IMHO there are some problems yet, like antenna size, power of emitter, etc. I think that IR or ultrasound are very directive and easier. EM devices are problematic, in the emission or reception sides. Keep on BEAMing. Sebastian Dols $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652F.00501343; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:34:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA09307 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:22:12 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22883 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:13:04 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id K}X28781; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:12:29 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: directionality Message-ID: <19971013.094327.7727.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199710111617.JAA07643@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,7-10,14 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:12:29 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: directionality PostedDate: 10/13/97 07:12:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 07:34:44 AM-10/13/97 07:34:45 AM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 07:34:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:17:19 -0700 Randy Sargent writes: > A 100 Hz sound maybe has a wavelength of 10 feet (probably too >large to mess with without a really large detector), but 5 Khz >maybe has a wavelength of around 2 inches. (I know that the >phone company did a lot of research on what frequencies a phone >ringer needed to have in order for humans to be able to locate >the sound easily -- humans can locate some frequencies better >than others). hmm perhaps sound could be best.. i imagine a 'herd' of bots roaming around and chirping to each other as they find more light and group over to the brighter source.. =] this might go along with craig's ideas of higher-then-beam powered bots that charge up bat. then go along... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652F.0050A7FA; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:40:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA09339 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:28:35 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22881 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:12:54 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id K}W28781; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:12:29 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo?? Message-ID: <19971013.094327.7727.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <19971013102418.AAA5022@arroba.arroba.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-5,7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:12:29 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo?? PostedDate: 10/13/97 07:12:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 07:41:02 AM-10/13/97 07:41:03 AM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 07:41:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:26:25 +0100 sebastian_dols@ieci.es (IECISA: Sebastian Dols Amengual) writes: >But IMHO there are some problems yet, like antenna size, power of >emitter, etc. I think that IR or ultrasound are very directive >and easier. EM devices are problematic, in the emission or >reception sides. so i.r. for line-of-sight communication and or audio for when you have obsticals? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652F.005D4DDB; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:59:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10020 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:46:43 -0700 Received: from server1.integritynetwork.net ([208.142.50.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23334 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:40:27 -0500 Received: from BBS1 ([208.142.50.7]) by server1.integritynetwork.net (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release 0122 ID# 0-37065U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA236 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:39:23 -0500 Received: by BBS1 with Microsoft Mail id <01BCD831.34656A70@BBS1>; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:39:10 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCD831.34656A70@BBS1> From: crusader@integritynetwork.net (Mike Meskill) To: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Commo II Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:39:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: crusader@integritynetwork.net From: crusader@integritynetwork.net Subject: Commo II PostedDate: 10/13/97 09:39:09 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 09:59:12 AM-10/13/97 09:59:13 AM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 09:59:13 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Thanks for all the great input on the "Commo??" thread! From all the input it looks like sound would be the best medium for commo between BEAMers.. I wonder how hard it would be to setup a BEAMbot to compare loudness (as a measure of distance) between multiple "chirps". Sortof a "It's getting louder, I must be getting closer!" paradigm. Or possibly comparing it between two or more microphones - located far enough apart from each other for the bot to compare the difference between the reception of the mic's... Mike Meskill Network System Administrator Integrity Network Services $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 8825652F.006C0058; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:39:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA11151 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:27:09 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA24032 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:05:43 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:03:57 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 13 Oct 97 12:05:53 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 13 Oct 97 12:05:52 +800 Received: from alan-ws.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 13 Oct 97 12:05:52 +800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971013120542.006eecec@email.scrnet.com> X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:05:42 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Hybrid BEAM and microcontroller Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Hybrid BEAM and microcontroller PostedDate: 10/13/97 12:05:42 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 12:39:42 PM-10/13/97 12:39:43 PM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 12:39:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark sparked an idea in one of his last posts about using BEAM control to prove a robot body before installing a microprocessor. I was wondering if anyone has ever done a BEAM/microprocessor hybrid? Using the BEAM microcore to handle the motion (legs or wheels) and used a microprocessor to guide the bot to perform tasks or for more detailed guidance. A couple of I/O lines could be used to influence the microcore in moving the bot around. This could be an interesting exercise in collision avoidance and recovery while mapping out an area (NASA are you listening?). Alan Serl - Owner Serl Computer Research aserl@scrnet.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256530.001DD375; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:25:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA13240 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:13:16 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25071 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:01:44 -0500 Received: from dcp1-27.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-25.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.25]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA10256 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971014000438.3b87116c@nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:04:38 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Re: Hybrid BEAM and microcontroller In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971013120542.006eecec@email.scrnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Re: Hybrid BEAM and microcontroller PostedDate: 10/13/97 05:04:38 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/13/97 10:25:57 PM-10/13/97 10:25:58 PM DeliveredDate: 10/13/97 10:25:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:05 PM 10/13/97 -0700, Alan Serl wrote: >Mark sparked an idea in one of his last posts about using BEAM control to >prove a robot body before installing a microprocessor. I was wondering if >anyone has ever done a BEAM/microprocessor hybrid? I've been fooling around, but just not any processor will do for BEAM. It has to be extremely simple and very low current, I like PICs. Notes and ascii stuff at: http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/otherwld/robot2.html My approach is very simple, just let learning software pick whatever moves it wants to as long as it gets the feelers off the wall. I've found that reliably steering my two-motor walker was an exercise in futility, so I make no demands on which way it goes. That is for it to decide. Controlling wheeled devices with micros is easy, they do mostly the same thing every time. Controlling a nervous-net walker is another story - a more sophisticated 3- or 4-motor design would probably do better if "do this" is in the plan. Next year's project... - Terry $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256530.0031E509; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:04:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14565 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:52:27 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA25441 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:34:52 -0500 Received: from marvin (m028.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.223]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24434; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:29:13 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971014083533.006ee388@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:35:33 +1000 To: crusader@integritynetwork.net (Mike Meskill) From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Commo II Cc: "'Beam@webconn.com'" SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Commo II PostedDate: 10/14/97 01:35:33 AM SendTo: crusader@integritynetwork.net CopyTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 02:05:06 AM-10/14/97 02:05:08 AM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 02:05:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 23:39 13/10/97 -0500, Mike Meskill wrote: > From all the input it looks like sound would be the best medium for commo between BEAMers.. I wonder how hard it would be to setup a BEAMbot to compare loudness (as a measure of distance) between multiple "chirps". Sortof a "It's getting I don't think that would be necessary. Just a simple directional system would work, then run a piezo do-hicky off a separate type 2 solar engine, so the more light the louder it is louder, I must be getting closer!" paradigm. Or possibly comparing it between two or more microphones - located far enough apart from each other for the bot to compare the difference between the reception of the mic's... two microphones - one on either side with cardboard or something similar between them would do it. Andrew Vaughan http://athene.mit.csu.edu.au/~avaugh02/ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/1142/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256530.00356164; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:43:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA14924 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:30:21 -0700 Received: from eciweb.elcorteingles.es ([194.179.126.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25534 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:13:55 -0500 Received: from arroba.arroba.com ([128.90.14.5]) by eciweb.elcorteingles.es (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA7975; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:11:20 +0200 From: sebastian_dols@ieci.es (IECISA: Sebastian Dols Amengual) To: "Mike Meskill" , Subject: RE: Commo II Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:13:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 Message-ID: <19971014091118.AAA7975@arroba.arroba.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id EAA25534 SMTPOriginator: sebastian_dols@ieci.es From: sebastian_dols@ieci.es Subject: RE: Commo II PostedDate: 10/14/97 03:13:30 AM SendTo: crusader@integritynetwork.net,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 02:43:08 AM-10/14/97 02:43:09 AM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 02:43:09 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I wonder how hard it would be to setup a BEAMbot to compare loudness (as a measure of distance) between multiple "chirps". Sortof a "It's getting louder, I must be getting closer!" paradigm. === Well, I think the better way is using an standard amplitude, referenced internally with the signal sent to the output transmitter of the 'bot, and multiple frecuencies, to difference multiple 'bots. Like frecuency multiplexing in data transmission. b.e.: bot 1 uses 40 Khz, 2Vpp amplitude in piezo buzzer bot2 uses 41 Khz, 2Vpp amplitude in piezo buzzer etc. Then with the frecuency you can know how many chirps are you listening and with some type of comparation of amplitude you can 'imagine' distance. If you uses multiple receivers in a bot, you can detect realtime phase deviation and route your bot to the origin of the sound. by example: *received 0,5 Vpp amplitude in 41 Khz -> are twice away than any frecuency 1Vpp. *phase of 41 Khz signal is moving to left/rear receiver, then we are rigth/front, amplitude decrease, we are moving far away from sound source ('bot).... and so on. The problems will be reflections of sound, atenuations due obstacles, different propagation in different altitude, humidity of air, etc. The problem is not easy, but a bot that can listen is better than a blind, non listening bot. You will be involved in filtering, analog comparation, phase detection.... mmmmm..... sounds like a clasic robot now... something far of beam concept, i think. If is my approach to the problem, I admit my lack of knowledge. In that case, flames to /dev/null, please ;) But maybe starting here... Keep on BEAMing Sebasti?n Dols $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256530.003CB2AE; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:01:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA18515 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:48:45 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA25741 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:41:33 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13536 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710141041.GAA13536@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp15.buffnet.net(205.246.19.122) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma001662; Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:41:54 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: Five Motor Walker Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:50:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Five Motor Walker PostedDate: 10/14/97 03:50:08 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 04:01:29 AM-10/14/97 04:01:30 AM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 04:01:30 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey could anyone give me some graphical or non graphical information about the setup of a fivemotor walker interms of where the motors and legs are located? Dennison Bertram Of course. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256530.0044FB7B; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:33:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA22771 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:20:50 -0700 Received: from hermes.iupui.edu (hermes.iupui.edu [134.68.220.31]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25922 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:06:20 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c1p38.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.241.139]) by hermes.iupui.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA14479 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:06:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34435096.1283@iupui.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:59:34 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: RE: Commo II Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: RE: Commo II PostedDate: 10/14/97 03:59:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 05:33:32 AM-10/14/97 05:33:33 AM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 05:33:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US IECISA: Sebastian Dols Amengual wrote: > > You will be involved in filtering, analog comparation, phase detection.... > mmmmm..... sounds like a clasic robot now... something far of beam concept, > i think. If is my approach to the problem, I admit my lack of knowledge. In > that case, flames to /dev/null, please ;) > A while ago ( I don't remember any details, but a search of back issues in the library will turn it up ) in Scientific American there was a article about a lego based robot which could follow artifical cricket chirps. In the article there's a description of how crickets' ears turn a phase difference into an amplitude difference by channeling sound to both sides of their ear drum. When sound from the two paths reaches the ear drum in phase, it cancels itself out - no amplitude. If the sound gets there 180 degrees out of phase it's amplitude is doubled. The cricket just turns towards the louder sound. Also, filtering can be no more complex that the correct length of tube used to direct the sound. The air column in a tube makes for a great band pass filter. This is all based on using audible frequencies, which if I remember correctly the lower the frequency, the farther the sound will travel on the same energy. Good if you want to power an emitter on a mobile platform, bad for reflections. I may have a copy of the article laying around, I'll send details if I find it. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.0003D05F; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:41:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA05107 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:35:11 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27087 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:14:45 -0500 Received: from wingate.cadvision.com (ts77ip154.cadvision.com [207.228.113.154]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA73312 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:14:57 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971014181345.0104a174@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:13:45 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: SunScout walker schematic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: SunScout walker schematic PostedDate: 10/14/97 05:13:45 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 05:41:51 PM-10/14/97 05:41:51 PM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 05:41:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've just got this finished this last weekend. I've got the scan of my SunScout schematic done, so if anybody wants one, drop me email (don't like to drop an attachment on the whole list). Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.000A503D; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:52:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05368 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:46:16 -0700 From: RobMaier@aol.com Received: from emout24.mail.aol.com (emout24.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.129]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27280 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:30:15 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout24.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA28876 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971014174426_255528043@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: RE: Commo II SMTPOriginator: RobMaier@aol.com From: RobMaier@aol.com Subject: RE: Commo II PostedDate: 10/14/97 06:30:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 06:52:50 PM-10/14/97 06:52:51 PM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 06:52:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Time for my $0.02 worth. My idea for a heard (pack) of 'bots that can send each other signals when one finds a strong light source. I would have a standard photovore with the addition of 2 circuits. First an independent light detector that would increase the frequency of the chirps the stronger the light source became. Second circuit, the detector, it could look for a chirp 'frequency' that is above a certain threshold. It could move toward that sound by whatever method would give it a direction to follow. If it enountered a higher rate of chirp, it would persue that signal instead. The whole time sending its own chirp so others could follow. well, just some thoughts... ~Rob $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.0024F08D; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 23:43:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05666 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:44:08 -0700 From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com (emout03.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.94]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27576 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:44:05 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA22253 for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971015014415_1544883856@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Commo 1101 SMTPOriginator: Xx1101xX@aol.com From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Subject: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/14/97 10:44:16 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/14/97 11:43:39 PM-10/14/97 11:43:40 PM DeliveredDate: 10/14/97 11:43:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US my two cents... Would it be more reasonable to have,say,a "scout bot"with keen light sensing/finding..but,no audio detection?This"scout"bot would find a nice patch of light..be set up so that,in a certain amount of light,it would cease to move and start to signal the other bots who have no light detection,but are equiped with audio detection/tracking.(less load on all the bots) It would require less hardware on ALL the bots...only a small handfull would have light-sensing and audio signalling capabilities...while the other bots have only the audio detection/tracking...it would be like shepherds leading the sheep...after a while,with enough bots,there would be distinct"herds"each herd following the "scout" bot. Also,once a scout bot detects the light fading past a certain level,it would cease signaling and start looking for better light... I think it's a pretty good idea,utilizing the specialization side of evolution... sure,it's a rough draft of an idea,but with some refinement,who knows? Thanks for bearing with me... Xx1101xX@aol.com Jason Courter $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.003EF069; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 04:27:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05986 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 04:20:58 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27853 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:15:06 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-10.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.11]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id NAA29670 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:15:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:20:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <971015014415_1544883856@emout03.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/15/97 04:20:40 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 04:27:30 AM-10/15/97 04:27:31 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 04:27:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 Xx1101xX@aol.com wrote: > Would it be more reasonable to have,say,a "scout bot"with keen light > sensing/finding..but,no audio detection?This"scout"bot would find a nice > patch of light..be set up so that,in a certain amount of light,it would cease > to move and start to signal the other bots who have no light detection,but > are equiped with audio detection/tracking.(less load on all the bots) Since searching for better light is easier than detecting and tracking an audio signal, I doubt that this would improve the overall result. The bots are better off if they each try to find the light on their own. The type of problem that might be solved by communication is finding the best light in an indoor situation: When the bots need to find the largest window on the sunside. Other windows provide some light, but not the best. In this case, the bots would start by all looking for better light, in different directions. When a bot reaches a local optimum, he reports the quality of what he has found to the rest. When *all* bots have reached a local optimum - they might know the current state of affairs by counting reports - the robots could flock towards the best light found, by tracking the sound of the best report. (Easier said than done, by the way.) When the found light fades, they would again start roaming in different directions, until each has once again reached a local optimum. I believe that something like this would be hard to realize, and the range of problems that can be solved seems rather narrow. But thinking about it does no harm :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.00428101; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:06:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06008 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 04:59:35 -0700 Received: from judge.lis.net.au (judge.lis.net.au [203.35.83.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27974 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:55:31 -0500 Received: from greg (juror15.lis.net.au [203.35.83.54]) by judge.lis.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08734 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:55:25 +1000 Message-ID: <3444AE3C.3633CAA6@lis.net.au> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:51:25 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Servo Gearboxes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Servo Gearboxes PostedDate: 10/15/97 04:51:25 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 05:06:30 AM-10/15/97 05:06:31 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 05:06:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all. Does someone know of the easiest way to make a gearbox using servo gears. I have been using veroboard (solderable breadboard??) and little tubes of brass soldered in the holes to allow the brass gearshafts to turn in them. I can't get it acurate enough to make an efficient gearbox though. Any suggestions?? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.005186E5; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:50:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA06391 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:44:01 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28388 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:32:09 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id KTQ17870; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:30:48 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo II Message-ID: <19971015.100229.7695.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <971014174426_255528043@emout08.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,11-13,19-20,24 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:30:48 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo II PostedDate: 10/15/97 07:30:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 07:50:35 AM-10/15/97 07:50:36 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 07:50:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:30:26 -0400 (EDT) RobMaier@aol.com writes: >Time for my $0.02 worth. >My idea for a heard (pack) of 'bots that can send each other >signals when one finds a strong light source. I would have a >standard photovore with the addition of 2 circuits. First an >independent light detector that would increase the frequency >of the chirps the stronger the light source became. >Second circuit, the detector, it could look for a chirp >'frequency' that is above a certain threshold. It could move >toward that sound by whatever method would give it a direction to >follow. If it enountered a higher rate of chirp, it would persue >that signal instead. The whole time sending its own chirp so >others could follow. the idea i had was that it would chirp when the cap was full.. since the cap would fill up faster when there is more sunlight it would chirp more often.. other bots hearing the chirp would simply make a movement into that direction for each chirp.. (perhaps having the sound signal which motor should be used) from what i figure.. the more chirping in one area.. the more others will move into that direction.. only thing i see wrong with this consept would be a clumping problem.. we definatly still need photosensors to tell them to move away from each other when the light gets low or something like that.. i dunno.. i guess thats the guru's jobs.. i just have ideas.. =] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.00519002; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:50:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA06394 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:44:19 -0700 Received: from judge.lis.net.au (judge.lis.net.au [203.35.83.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28276 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:11:34 -0500 Received: from greg (juror15.lis.net.au [203.35.83.54]) by judge.lis.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11276 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:11:24 +1000 Message-ID: <3444CE1D.DD2A6511@lis.net.au> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:07:26 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Please test BEAM Australia's web counter X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.1.32.19971011202607.0068f920@mail01.mel.aone.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Please test BEAM Australia's web counter PostedDate: 10/15/97 07:07:26 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 07:50:56 AM-10/15/97 07:50:58 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 07:50:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all. Could you please visit BEAM Australia for me, so I can test if the counter is working. The address is http:/www.lis.net.au/~gdenehy/beam/index.html Thanks heaps, Greg. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.0051AEA7; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:52:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA06406 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:45:48 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28390 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:32:12 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id KTR17870; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:30:48 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971015.100229.7695.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <971015014415_1544883856@emout03.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8,12,16-17,21-22,28 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:30:48 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/15/97 07:30:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 07:52:19 AM-10/15/97 07:52:20 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 07:52:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Xx1101xX@aol.com writes: > my two cents... >Would it be more reasonable to have,say,a "scout bot"with keen >light sensing/finding..but,no audio detection?This"scout"bot >would find a nice patch of light..be set up so that,in a certain >amount of light,it would cease to move and start to signal the >other bots who have no light detection,but are equiped with audio >detection/tracking.(less load on all the bots) It would require >less hardware on ALL the bots...only a small handfull would >have light-sensing and audio signalling capabilities...while the >other bots have only the audio detection/tracking...it would be >like shepherds leading the sheep...after a while,with enough >bots,there would be distinct"herds"each herd following the >"scout" bot. >Also,once a scout bot detects the light fading past a certain >level,it would cease signaling and start looking for better >light... I think it's a pretty good idea,utilizing the >specialization side of evolution... sure,it's a rough draft of an >idea,but with some refinement,who knows? i like this idea.. but im wondering if you dont have enough scouts.. will the other bots clump up too much? i like this idea where it moves away from the insect-like 'all bots are identical in the pack' and brings up leadership consepts.. i may get too complex with this but please bare with me on this one.. what if they all have both sets of circuts.. but also have some kind of i.r. system so that they can determine that one shall be a leadar while the others follow? or perhaps just that the first one to start a 'chirping session' (by being closest to the light) will mute the others into listening for it? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256531.00613B6C; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:42:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA07918 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:35:33 -0700 Received: from Internet.canadorec.on.ca (internet.canadorec.on.ca [192.139.245.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29162 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:59:45 -0500 Received: from SL13.canadorec.on.ca [199.212.89.115] (HELO mars.canadorec.on.ca) by Internet.canadorec.on.ca (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0066_3444_f996_9e8e; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:12:54 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971015130252.0068a394@internet.canadorec.on.ca> X-Sender: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:02:52 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dwayne Shelswell Subject: VCR motors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca From: shelswed@internet.canadorec.on.ca Subject: VCR motors PostedDate: 10/15/97 10:02:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 10:42:08 AM-10/15/97 10:42:09 AM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 10:42:09 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Any one ever used VCR motors? The motor for the head looks to be high efficency.I don`t have a power supply to check it out. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.000633B3; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:07:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10448 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:01:14 -0700 Received: from judge.lis.net.au (judge.lis.net.au [203.35.83.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29965 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:38:08 -0500 Received: from greg (juror24.lis.net.au [203.35.83.63]) by judge.lis.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00869 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:38:13 +1000 Message-ID: <34456100.9136563C@lis.net.au> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:34:09 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beam Mailing List Subject: What is best course for robotics in Australia? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: What is best course for robotics in Australia? PostedDate: 10/15/97 05:34:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 06:07:55 PM-10/15/97 06:07:55 PM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 06:07:55 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am thinking of doing a uni degree that combines software engineering and mechanical/electronic knowledge. What courses are you guys doing and what are they like? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.001722C9; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:12:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA10818 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:06:13 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA30165 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:13:19 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24227 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710160312.XAA24227@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp2.buffnet.net(205.246.19.109) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma006839; Wed, 15 Oct 97 23:12:58 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: Bit Bot Page. Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:21:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Bit Bot Page. PostedDate: 10/15/97 08:21:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/15/97 09:12:53 PM-10/15/97 09:12:54 PM DeliveredDate: 10/15/97 09:12:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey I have the very Beggnings of my Robot page up at http://members.wbs.net/homepages/a/d/i/adi15.html it probably will not stay there for long but will be moved to my own server. I appologize for the condition and the pictures not showing up, but I needed Netscape 2.01 to upload my graphics. (NEED some real FTP) Oh well it was the basic idea and was finished late. Dennison Bertram Of course. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.0044EEB8; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:32:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA11404 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:26:14 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA30636 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:56:48 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-160.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.160]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA26545; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <344602CD.7914@golden.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:04:29 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dennison CC: BEAM Subject: Re: Five Motor Walker References: <199710141041.GAA13536@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Five Motor Walker PostedDate: 10/16/97 05:04:29 AM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 05:33:01 AM-10/16/97 05:33:02 AM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 05:33:02 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dennison wrote: > > Hey could anyone give me some graphical or non graphical information about > the setup of a fivemotor walker interms of where the motors and legs are > located? > > Four Leg motors on the corners and a waist motor on the middle... uses the waist like so... http://www.golden.net/~amiller/waist.gif all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.0053CD4C; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:15:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA11750 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:08:51 -0700 Received: from vision.ee.calpoly.edu (vision.ee.calpoly.edu [129.65.26.115]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA30906 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:48:23 -0500 Received: (from jcline@localhost) by vision.ee.calpoly.edu (8.6.10/ELEE) id HAA13426; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:47:58 -0700 From: Jonathan Message-Id: <199710161447.HAA13426@vision.ee.calpoly.edu> Subject: Re: What is best course for robotics in Australia? To: gdenehy@lis.net.au (Greg Denehy) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <34456100.9136563C@lis.net.au> from "Greg Denehy" at Oct 16, 97 10:34:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: jcline@vision.ee.calpoly.edu From: jcline@vision.ee.calpoly.edu Subject: Re: What is best course for robotics in Australia? PostedDate: 10/16/97 07:47:58 AM SendTo: gdenehy@lis.net.au CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 08:15:36 AM-10/16/97 08:15:37 AM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 08:15:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, I am currently pursuing a BS EE at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. I'll state my opinion on dual-majors: don't do it. Believe me, it's too much information. Getting an EE or ME already takes 5 years of difficult study (depending on which school you pick of course). If you try to go both ways at once, not only will it take you forever, but most people in industry will think your studies are "too broad" and "not applied enough". However-- what you may be looking for is a concentration in Mechatronics. This is usually on the ME side. So I'd suggest getting an EE and concentrating (like a "minor" but more minor) in some ME. You could go the other way-- a major in ME and minor in an EE topic, but faculty opinion is that it isn't as good because EE is seriously specialized and it's too difficult to take a couple courses and understand things. EE = Electrical Engineering ME = Mechanical Engineering EE will give you all the knowledge you need for programming embedded systems (ie microcontrollers-- PICs, etc). At least it's supposed to.. > I am thinking of doing a uni degree that combines software engineering > and mechanical/electronic knowledge. What courses are you guys doing > and what are they like? > By the way the webring is doing fine! Check it out. Jonathan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.0074F94D; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:17:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA13821 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:11:15 -0700 Received: from aries.EE.McGill.CA (Aries.EE.McGill.CA [132.206.75.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31785 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:31:56 -0500 Received: from bart.EE.McGill.CA (root@Bart.EE.McGill.CA [132.206.79.155]) by aries.EE.McGill.CA (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA16773 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chiarth@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bart.EE.McGill.CA (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23679 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur Ching X-Sender: chiarth@bart Reply-To: Arthur Ching To: beam Subject: Help! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca From: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca Subject: Help! PostedDate: 10/16/97 01:31:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 02:17:47 PM-10/16/97 02:17:48 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 02:17:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just put together the microcore and surprise, it didn't work: all the LEDs just lit up and stayed that way without blinking. I tried killing some processes, if they happened to be going too fast, by introducing them to ground but only the LED connected to the inverter output shuts off, all the other ones remain on. Needless to say, nothing changed from what occured initially when I removed the ground. The parts I'm using are: 0.22uF capacitors, 1MegOhm resistors, 5V DC power. I'm using a 74LS14 rather than 74HC14, could that be what's causing the problem? Can anyone help me out on this? Thanks in advance. Art. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.0076C524; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:37:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA13911 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:30:47 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31953 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:08:03 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco5-36.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.36]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA12371; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3446831A.1536@golden.net> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:11:54 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arthur Ching CC: beam Subject: Re: Help! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Help! PostedDate: 10/16/97 02:11:54 PM SendTo: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 02:37:22 PM-10/16/97 02:37:22 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 02:37:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >using are: 0.22uF capacitors, 1MegOhm resistors, 5V DC power. I'm > using a 74LS14 rather than 74HC14, could that be what's causing the > problem? Can anyone help me out on this? LS thats your problem... the 74ls14 has internal pull ups that make the thing not wanna go... The anly way to make the LS style chips work is 1uF caps and 100K resistors and even then it'll burn itself out in no time.... Gotta have CMOS.... C works best but HC, HCT, 40106B will all work with varying degrees of sucsess.... swap the chip and make sure your power supply is very well regulated and has lots of filter cap on the output and your set.... (Batteries are still a safer bet 4AA's will do) all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.007B6EE7; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:28:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14308 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:21:49 -0700 Received: from bud.cc.swin.edu.au (bud.cc.swin.edu.au [136.186.1.113]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00591 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:17:13 -0500 Received: (from 092891@localhost) by bud.cc.swin.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA01196; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:17:10 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:17:10 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Leslie Murdoch <092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> To: Greg Denehy cc: Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: What is best course for robotics in Australia? In-Reply-To: <34456100.9136563C@lis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: 092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au From: 092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au Subject: Re: What is best course for robotics in Australia? PostedDate: 10/16/97 03:17:10 PM SendTo: gdenehy@lis.net.au CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 03:28:22 PM-10/16/97 03:28:23 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 03:28:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US G'Day. > I am thinking of doing a uni degree that combines software engineering > and mechanical/electronic knowledge. What courses are you guys doing > and what are they like? In my opinion, a mechanical engineering degree with a minor in electrical engineering, is all that you require. cya andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256532.00839F98; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:57:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA15267 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:51:06 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00899 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:43:38 -0500 Received: from ts75ip71.cadvision.com (ts75ip71.cadvision.com [207.228.113.71]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA48616; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:39:55 -0600 Received: by ts75ip71.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCDA59.0444E620@ts75ip71.cadvision.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:29:11 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCDA59.0444E620@ts75ip71.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Andrew Leslie Murdoch'" <092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: What is best course for robotics in Australia? Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:29:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: What is best course for robotics in Australia? PostedDate: 10/16/97 04:29:09 PM SendTo: 092891@bud.cc.swin.edu.au CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 04:57:43 PM-10/16/97 04:57:44 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 04:57:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Okay okay, I could list 300 majors that have to do with that, hell I've learned more about robotics from this list than some of the uni text books. If you want a fancy piece of paper on the wall get a degree, unless your trying to get a job in robotics (nearly imposs) then a degree will take a few years out of your life, and have alot of things that you don't need to know. Kina like how alot of chemists have the periodic table memorized, but for practical use , well you get the picture. Besides the lucky few, most people who get jobs in robotics get them in industrial, and boy is that a whole different ball game compared to beam. G'Day. > I am thinking of doing a uni degree that combines software engineering > and mechanical/electronic knowledge. What courses are you guys doing > and what are they like? In my opinion, a mechanical engineering degree with a minor in electrical engineering, is all that you require. cya andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.001498D2; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:44:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA15789 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:38:27 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01207 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:35:40 -0500 Received: from ts49-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.172] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xM3Ck-0001Nw-00; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:36:03 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:02:43 -0400 To: Arthur Ching , beam From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Help! Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Help! PostedDate: 10/16/97 08:02:43 PM SendTo: chiarth@ee.mcgill.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 08:45:08 PM-10/16/97 08:45:09 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 08:45:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:31 PM 10/16/97 -0400, Arthur Ching wrote: >I just put together the microcore and surprise, it didn't work: all the >LEDs just lit up and stayed that way without blinking. I tried killing [snip] What type of LED's are you using? Did you put in the current limiting resistors? Do your LED's run to Vss or Vdd? You'll need "high efficiency" LED's, they will run on 2.0 mA rather than the 20.0 mA that the regular LED's need. Note that you can use a larger current limiting resistor! Are you working on a breadboard or a PCB? A soldered board will need to be cleaned. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.001C735E; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:10:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA15901 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:04:21 -0700 From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Received: from emout41.mail.aol.com (emout41.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.59]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01441 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:02:33 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout41.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA12166 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971015145622_1133919614@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 SMTPOriginator: Xx1101xX@aol.com From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/16/97 10:02:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 10:10:53 PM-10/16/97 10:10:54 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 10:10:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-15 07:27:37 EDT,sbolt@xs4all.nl(Steven Bolt)writes: << When a bot reaches a local optimum, he reports the quality of what he has found to the rest. When *all* bots have reached a local optimum - they might know the current state of affairs by counting reports - the robots could flock towards the best light found, by tracking the sound of the best report. (Easier said than done, by the way.) >> I believe this to make what can be done more simply,more complex.If certain bots have only certain abilities,this cuts down on the complexity...now...if today's solar cells could squeeze some more juice out of light,I think your idea would be great... But,for now,as a sort of stepping stone...the shepherd/sheep idea seems,to me to be the most logical in:cost(not that they'd be that expensive,anyway),power demand,and complexity(less stuff going wrong)...of course if the shepherd bot kicks the can,your stuck with a bunch of lost sheep...most every idea has a glitch.... Now,if batteries were used in bots having both light detection and signalling/responding capabilities(as a sort of reservoir)...there ya go... Just 2 more cents from me... Xx1101xX@aol.com Jason Courter $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.002621C9; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:56:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA16035 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 23:49:57 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01649 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:43:53 -0500 Received: from ts75ip71.cadvision.com (ts75ip71.cadvision.com [207.228.113.71]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA141606 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:43:45 -0600 Received: by ts75ip71.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCDA94.415C1520@ts75ip71.cadvision.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:33:14 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCDA94.415C1520@ts75ip71.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Photovore "whisker" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:33:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Photovore "whisker" PostedDate: 10/16/97 11:33:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/16/97 11:56:34 PM-10/16/97 11:56:34 PM DeliveredDate: 10/16/97 11:56:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I remember hearing that people are having a hard time getting the right wire, shape or whatever. Dave hrynkiws way make's a nice tight springy type whisker, but they are impossible to rebend into shape without having to take it off, and re tighten it on the drill. Unless people have cats hunting them, they work great. For people who want an ok spring in less than 30 seconds, buy about 10 ft of 10 gauge multi-strand wire, cut about 3 ft long strips, strip the wire, take an smooth shaft screwdriver , and do the usual. The only reason I'm suggesting this, is that I've found that buying 100ft of 28 G wire is more expencive than buying 10 ft of 10 G,I guess the plastic covering is what makes it cost more Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.002C8CDD; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:05:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16139 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:58:25 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01827 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 02:56:54 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-02.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.3]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA07541 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:56:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:02:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <971015145622_1133919614@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/17/97 01:02:07 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/17/97 01:05:09 AM-10/17/97 01:05:11 AM DeliveredDate: 10/17/97 01:05:11 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 Xx1101xX@aol.com wrote: > I believe this to make what can be done more simply,more > complex.If certain bots have only certain abilities,this cuts > down on the complexity... ...But complexity is still added, and has to be good for something in the first place. > But,for now,as a sort of stepping stone...the shepherd/sheep idea > seems,to me to be the most logical in:cost(not that they'd be > that expensive,anyway),power demand,and complexity(less stuff > going wrong)...of course if the shepherd bot kicks the can,your > stuck with a bunch of lost sheep...most every idea has a > glitch.... The communications thread has been interesting, especially that bit from John about cricket sound perception. There is the smell of cool technology, which would be nice to demonstrate. But so far it's a solution looking for a problem. I don't see what advantage the shepherd/sheep have, compared to simple light-seekers. The electronics needed to look for light is much simpler, lighter and cheaper than the communications stuff. So the logical thing to do is to turn all robots into light-seekers and forget about communication. On average, that gives them a better chance of finding good light than when they follow a single scout, and the system will be much less complex. In other words, the shepherd/sheep take more to do less. One would expect communication to improve behaviour in some way, and that isn't easy when the `bots are just collecting light. I believe that to make communication valuable, the task has to be more complex. Coming up with something interesting (yet feasible) for a little robot to do, is at least as difficult as putting the hardware together :) Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.007CB2ED; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:42:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18790 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:35:33 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03033 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:18:33 -0500 Received: from ts75ip71.cadvision.com (ts39ip145.cadvision.com [207.228.71.145]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id QAA06794 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:18:20 -0600 Received: by ts75ip71.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCDB16.DAAC0000@ts75ip71.cadvision.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:08:06 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCDB16.DAAC0000@ts75ip71.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: "Space" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:08:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: "Space" PostedDate: 10/17/97 03:08:04 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/17/97 03:42:08 PM-10/17/97 03:42:09 PM DeliveredDate: 10/17/97 03:42:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Right now I'm watching "forbidden planet" on a sci-fi network of mine, anyway the robot, rob or robbie, was dreamed up by the producer, as what a robot would be in the future. Sure having movie producers make a bunch of movies about robots are "ok" , but actually seeing robots "bite the hand that feed them" would be alot more dull using the tech we have now. The closest thing to having my walker attack me is if I fall asleep on the ground while watching it, and I wake up with a whisker in my ear. For any robotic hobbiest that wants a good laugh, turn on the imagination network. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256533.007DFCF8; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:56:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18854 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:49:37 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02985 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:12:10 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id S`F29259; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:10:37 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971017.175937.4943.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-22,35-36,40 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:10:37 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/17/97 03:10:37 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/17/97 03:56:19 PM-10/17/97 03:56:20 PM DeliveredDate: 10/17/97 03:56:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:02:07 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 Xx1101xX@aol.com wrote: >The communications thread has been interesting, especially that bit >from John about cricket sound perception. There is the smell of >cool technology, which would be nice to demonstrate. But so far >it's a solution looking for a problem. >I don't see what advantage the shepherd/sheep have, compared to >simple light-seekers. The electronics needed to look for light is >much simpler, lighter and cheaper than the communications stuff. >So the logical thing to do is to turn all robots into light-seekers >and forget about communication. On average, that gives them a >better chance of finding good light than when they follow a single >scout, and the system will be much less complex. >In other words, the shepherd/sheep take more to do less. One would >expect communication to improve behaviour in some way, and that >isn't easy when the `bots are just collecting light. I believe >that to make communication valuable, the task has to be more >complex. >Coming up with something interesting (yet feasible) for a little >robot to do, is at least as difficult as putting the hardware >together :) my thoughts where this.. that a group of bots communicating would have a better chance of finding the light source from a further distance then a single bot might.. how about this idea.. every bot is sent out to look for light.. they all have light detecting ability.. if they find light they chirp.. the more available light the faster the chirping.. other bots come towards the largest amount of chirping.. when the bots that are soaking up rays charge up a larger cap to run off of.. they stop chirping and go off to find another source of light meanwhile the other bots would be charging.. i see this as a way that bots could get to a light source that might be outside of thier percevable range or perhaps when a closer lower light seems better to a bot then a further brighter one might be.. the chirps at the brighter one would tell it that the closer one is just garbage =] i know there are holes in this idea but it was just my opinion of how it might work best.. no offence XxXxxXxXXXxxXXX (j/k) but one bot 'shepard' would have less of a chance finding the best light compaired to the whole pack split up.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.001153CC; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:09:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19230 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:02:44 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03472 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:01:21 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25223 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710180300.XAA25223@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp27.buffnet.net(205.246.19.134) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma004020; Fri, 17 Oct 97 23:00:47 -0400 From: Dennison To: BEAM Subject: BIt Bot Page moved. Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:08:56 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: BIt Bot Page moved. PostedDate: 10/17/97 08:08:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/17/97 08:09:23 PM-10/17/97 08:09:24 PM DeliveredDate: 10/17/97 08:09:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've moved my Bit Bot page to a comfy corner of the Net. Unfortunatly it still isn't done nor been worked on. I'm working on the other parts of my pages slowley bringing the whole thing to life, check it out at your convinece. http://www.buffnet.net/~dennlill/Welcome.htm http://www.buffnet.net/~dennlill/robot.htm Dennison Bertram $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.001AD5D6; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:53:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19290 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:46:41 -0700 From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03661 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:46:01 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA29827; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971018004242_1825857075@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: nytwulf@juno.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 SMTPOriginator: Xx1101xX@aol.com From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/17/97 09:45:51 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/17/97 09:53:15 PM-10/17/97 09:53:17 PM DeliveredDate: 10/17/97 09:53:17 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-10-17 18:32:20 EDT, nytwulf@juno.com wrote: << i know there are holes in this idea but it was just my opinion of how it might work best.. no offence XxXxxXxXXXxxXXX (j/k) but one bot 'shepard' would have less of a chance finding the best light compaired to the whole pack split up.. >> No offense taken...hehe I'm sorry I wasn't clear...more than one "shepherd bot" would be used...not only in foresight that a shepherd bot WILL eventually stop functioning for one reason or another,but,also for multiple "herds" to form... Also,I'm glad it was pointed out that just having bots with light seeking abilities would be "simpler lighter and cheaper"(sbolt@xs4all.nl)...but an amoeba is also simpler,lighter and,assumably,cheaper than a human,chimp,or even a lab rat... I believe that complexities must be seen for what they can offer,not exclusively their complexity...the "shepherd/sheep" idea would simply be a "branch" stemming from simple light-seekers,but not yet at a point where all bots will seek light and communicate it's location,quality etc... For BEAM bots to evolve(please forgive me if this comes across as preaching),I believe,they must continue to break their own "mold"...in 30 years,I'm positive BEAMers will not be,at all,satisfied with creating a simple light seeker...by then,hopefully,there will be interdependant classes of bots(no focus on any food-chain idea,though,I did find the solar plant idea to be very intriguing)... - just two more cents that,hopefully,make sense(pretty corny,I know)- Xx1101xX@aol.com....not XxXxxXxXXXxxXXX,Nytwulf...hehe..... Jason Courter $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.0028244A; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:18:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19399 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:11:53 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03877 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:10:59 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-00.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.1]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA22756 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:10:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:16:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <19971017.175937.4943.1.nytwulf@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 12:16:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 12:18:39 AM-10/18/97 12:18:40 AM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 12:18:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Earik Wulf wrote: > my thoughts where this.. that a group of bots communicating would have a > better chance of finding the light source from a further distance then a > single bot might.. how about this idea.. every bot is sent out to look > for light.. they all have light detecting ability.. You might have two chirp modes, the first being a signal that the bots use to *avoid* getting close to each other. That spreads them out, so they cover the ground floor of the house, looking for the best window. > if they find light they chirp.. the more available light the > faster the chirping.. other bots come towards the largest amount > of chirping.. When a robot looks around and doesn't see any better light (has found a local optimum), he switches to a second signal, indicating the quality of the light. Some way of separating the signals of different `bots is needed. Possibly in time - having the bots talk in turn. > when the bots that are soaking up rays charge up a larger cap to > run off of.. they stop chirping and go off to find another source > of light meanwhile the other bots would be charging.. Some other kind of rechargeable may be needed, like a small NiMh. And perhaps the bots should decide together that a light source is no longer good enough, and switch back to the first sound signal. > i see this as a way that bots could get to a light source that > might be outside of thier percevable range or perhaps when a closer > lower light seems better to a bot then a further brighter one > might be.. the chirps at the brighter one would tell it that the > closer one is just garbage =] Right... Following the sun from window to window effectively would require some speed and endurance, making a rechargeable battery perhaps unavoidable. But the behaviour of this group may be interesting to watch (and maddening to listen to :) Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.002C95E4; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:05:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19428 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:58:45 -0700 From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com (emout20.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.46]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04012 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 02:58:25 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id DAA27218 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 03:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 03:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <971018035815_408734840@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Fwd: Commo 1101 SMTPOriginator: Xx1101xX@aol.com From: Xx1101xX@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 12:58:16 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:05:37 AM-10/18/97 01:05:39 AM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:05:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US << Subj: Re: Commo 1101 Date: 97-10-18 03:57:18 EDT From: Xx1101xX To: sbolt@xs4all.nl In a message dated 97-10-18 03:15:03 EDT, sbolt@xs4all.nl wrote: << On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Earik Wulf wrote: > my thoughts where this.. that a group of bots communicating would have a > better chance of finding the light source from a further distance then a > single bot might.. how about this idea.. every bot is sent out to look > for light.. they all have light detecting ability.. You might have two chirp modes, the first being a signal that the bots use to *avoid* getting close to each other. That spreads them out, so they cover the ground floor of the house, looking for the best window. > if they find light they chirp.. the more available light the > faster the chirping.. other bots come towards the largest amount > of chirping.. When a robot looks around and doesn't see any better light (has found a local optimum), he switches to a second signal, indicating the quality of the light. Some way of separating the signals of different `bots is needed. Possibly in time - having the bots talk in turn. > when the bots that are soaking up rays charge up a larger cap to > run off of.. they stop chirping and go off to find another source > of light meanwhile the other bots would be charging.. Some other kind of rechargeable may be needed, like a small NiMh. And perhaps the bots should decide together that a light source is no longer good enough, and switch back to the first sound signal. > i see this as a way that bots could get to a light source that > might be outside of thier percevable range or perhaps when a closer > lower light seems better to a bot then a further brighter one > might be.. the chirps at the brighter one would tell it that the > closer one is just garbage =] Right... Following the sun from window to window effectively would require some speed and endurance, making a rechargeable battery perhaps unavoidable. But the behaviour of this group may be interesting to watch (and maddening to listen to :) Best, Steve >> The idea I proposed was/is a sort of evolutionary bridge from light-finders to light finding communicators and also has the attraction of specialization of tasks... At present,I don't believe it to be very practical to equip every bot with light-finding and communication abilities(how big of a solar cell can our little bots really carry?) The bots can be much more active if the tasks are split up...the lesser the amount of tasks a bot is required to perform,the lesser the:build time,charge time,expense per bot...Imagine a bot "caste" system where the "Head" bots would find the light...communicate it to the "lesser"bots who would follow...you've heard it before,but,light-finders cannot be continuously built without some ultimate end in mind...in the future it's probable that all bots will search out light and communicate with one another,but,I don't see that happening any time soon...why not just go up one rung in the ladder instead of 3 or 4?...I'm just trying to keep the horse before the cart... Xx1101xX@aol.com Jason Courter >> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Commo 1101 Date: 97-10-18 03:57:18 EDT From: Xx1101xX To: sbolt@xs4all.nl In a message dated 97-10-18 03:15:03 EDT, sbolt@xs4all.nl wrote: << On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Earik Wulf wrote: > my thoughts where this.. that a group of bots communicating would have a > better chance of finding the light source from a further distance then a > single bot might.. how about this idea.. every bot is sent out to look > for light.. they all have light detecting ability.. You might have two chirp modes, the first being a signal that the bots use to *avoid* getting close to each other. That spreads them out, so they cover the ground floor of the house, looking for the best window. > if they find light they chirp.. the more available light the > faster the chirping.. other bots come towards the largest amount > of chirping.. When a robot looks around and doesn't see any better light (has found a local optimum), he switches to a second signal, indicating the quality of the light. Some way of separating the signals of different `bots is needed. Possibly in time - having the bots talk in turn. > when the bots that are soaking up rays charge up a larger cap to > run off of.. they stop chirping and go off to find another source > of light meanwhile the other bots would be charging.. Some other kind of rechargeable may be needed, like a small NiMh. And perhaps the bots should decide together that a light source is no longer good enough, and switch back to the first sound signal. > i see this as a way that bots could get to a light source that > might be outside of thier percevable range or perhaps when a closer > lower light seems better to a bot then a further brighter one > might be.. the chirps at the brighter one would tell it that the > closer one is just garbage =] Right... Following the sun from window to window effectively would require some speed and endurance, making a rechargeable battery perhaps unavoidable. But the behaviour of this group may be interesting to watch (and maddening to listen to :) Best, Steve >> The idea I proposed was/is a sort of evolutionary bridge from light-finders to light finding communicators and also has the attraction of specialization of tasks... At present,I don't believe it to be very practical to equip every bot with light-finding and communication abilities(how big of a solar cell can our little bots really carry?) The bots can be much more active if the tasks are split up...the lesser the amount of tasks a bot is required to perform,the lesser the:build time,charge time,expense per bot...Imagine a bot "caste" system where the "Head" bots would find the light...communicate it to the "lesser"bots who would follow...you've heard it before,but,light-finders cannot be continuously built without some ultimate end in mind...in the future it's probable that all bots will search out light and communicate with one another,but,I don't see that happening any time soon...why not just go up one rung in the ladder instead of 3 or 4?...I'm just trying to keep the horse before the cart... Xx1101xX@aol.com Jason Courter $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.0051526C; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:48:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA19609 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:41:43 -0700 Received: from timbuk.cray.com (timbuk-fddi.cray.com [128.162.8.102]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04314 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:39:49 -0500 Received: from ironwood.cray.com (root@ironwood-fddi.cray.com [128.162.21.36]) by timbuk.cray.com (8.8.5/CRI-gate-news-1.3) with ESMTP id JAA29258; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:39:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from esgi051.cray.com (esgi051 [128.162.105.161]) by ironwood.cray.com (8.8.4/CRI-ironwood-news-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA04247; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:39:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Dalton Received: by esgi051.cray.com (8.8.0/btd-b3) id OAA13971; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:39:22 GMT Message-Id: <199710181439.OAA13971@esgi051.cray.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 To: Xx1101xX@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:39:21 -0500 (CDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <971018035815_408734840@emout20.mail.aol.com> from "Xx1101xX@aol.com" at Oct 18, 97 03:58:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24-CRI-d] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@cray.com From: mwd@cray.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 07:39:21 AM SendTo: Xx1101xX@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 07:48:21 AM-10/18/97 07:48:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 07:48:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > The idea I proposed was/is a sort of evolutionary bridge from light-finders > to light finding communicators and also has the attraction of specialization > of tasks... > At present,I don't believe it to be very practical to equip every bot with > light-finding and communication abilities(how big of a solar cell can our > little bots really carry?) > The bots can be much more active if the tasks are split up...the lesser the > amount of tasks a bot is required to perform,the lesser the:build time,charge > time,expense per bot...Imagine a bot "caste" system where the "Head" bots > would find the light...communicate it to the "lesser"bots who would > follow...you've heard it before,but,light-finders cannot be continuously > built without some ultimate end in mind...in the future it's probable that > all bots will search out light and communicate with one another,but,I don't > see that happening any time soon...why not just go up one rung in the ladder > instead of 3 or 4?...I'm just trying to keep the horse before the cart... > Xx1101xX@aol.com > Jason Courter >> > Yes, something similar has been done actually. It was a Dutch physicist, that did a 'art display' based on frog communities (not the same but may be interesting to look at). 1. Stereo microphones 2. Speaker 3. 2 wheels (and maybe a coster or 2 coster wheels) Basically the the more they here of 'each other' the more active they become, if a 'outside' noise (like a human voice), they stop moving and 'chirping'. And how they move/respond depends on what they have heard in the past. Felix Hess, PhD (physicist) (mymic the rythms and patterns of frog & cricket calls). Acoustical interaction (advertise location for females, and the sounds and activity gets louder as more of the similar sounds, when they here a loud 'foreign' voice they become quiet. I believe this was on "Beyond 2000", interview/presentation by Iain Finlay of Groningen, Holland. And Felix Hess, PhD. I have no technical information on this, I just taped a portion of this. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Eagan, MN 55121 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.0058C4E9; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:09:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA19656 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:02:51 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04510 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 11:03:25 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-14.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.15]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id SAA18832 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:03:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <971018035815_408734840@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 09:08:57 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 09:09:41 AM-10/18/97 09:09:42 AM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 09:09:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 Xx1101xX@aol.com wrote: > The idea I proposed was/is a sort of evolutionary bridge from > light-finders to light finding communicators and also has the > attraction of specialization of tasks... > At present,I don't believe it to be very practical to equip > every bot with light-finding and communication abilities(how big > of a solar cell can our little bots really carry?) You may be a bit pessimistic here. The Panasonic 37mm x 82mm panel I'm using certainly isn't large or heavy, yet manages 41mA at 3.2V in bright sunlight; even in Dutch weather I've seen better than 10mA come out. And compared to even the best small DC motor, the electronics for light finding and communication should be able to make do with very little power. I don't think power would have to be a real problem, though the `bot probably needs the ability to store a couple of hours charge - making a 60mAh rechargeable more appropriate than a capacitor. > The bots can be much more active if the tasks are split up...the > lesser the amount of tasks a bot is required to perform,the > lesser the:build time,charge time,expense per bot...Imagine a bot > "caste" system where the "Head" bots would find the > light...communicate it to the "lesser"bots who would follow... It just seems such a contrived task, since the flock as a whole would rate *lower* than a bunch of simple photovores in the categories exploration, power efficiency and survival skills. > you've heard it before,but,light-finders cannot be continuously > built without some ultimate end in mind... Right! > in the future it's probable that all bots will search out light > and communicate with one another,but,I don't see that happening > any time soon...why not just go up one rung in the ladder instead > of 3 or 4?...I'm just trying to keep the horse before the cart... Time to prove your point by building a nice group of chiefs and followers. After all, there is nothing more convincing than working hardware :) Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.00603FD7; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:31:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19709 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 10:24:46 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA04704 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:21:30 -0500 Received: from ts14-01.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.16] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xMcZG-0003CA-00; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:21:38 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:47:59 -0400 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 09:47:59 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 10:31:21 AM-10/18/97 10:31:22 AM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 10:31:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:08 PM 10/18/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: [snip] >Time to prove your point by building a nice group of chiefs and >followers. After all, there is nothing more convincing than working >hardware :) I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.006FF2AB; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:22:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19803 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:16:20 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04940 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:14:58 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QET12570; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971018.161155.8223.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,10-15,17-21,25-30,32-33,36-37,40-46,51 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 01:13:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:22:57 PM-10/18/97 01:22:59 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:22:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:16:35 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >You might have two chirp modes, the first being a signal that the >bots use to *avoid* getting close to each other. That spreads them >out, so they cover the ground floor of the house, looking for the >best window. yes yes.. like when they are "full".. after charging up the 'storage cap' as apposed to only having enough capacitance to keep going.. have the juice dumped into another larger cap so it can soak up the rays.. perhaps a modified solar engine could handle it? >When a robot looks around and doesn't see any better light (has >found a local optimum), he switches to a second signal, indicating >the quality of the light. *mods* as soon as it gets low on the storing cap it can start reporting the light quality.. chirping more often for more intence light.. >Some way of separating the signals of different `bots is needed. >Possibly in time - having the bots talk in turn. that would be good.. but i was working under the assumption of a clouding effect.. where the bot hears a bunch of bots beeping in "that direction" the more bots the more chirps are heard in that area.. bringing stragalers in faster perhaps.. >Some other kind of rechargeable may be needed, like a small NiMh. >And perhaps the bots should decide together that a light source is >no longer good enough, and switch back to the first sound signal. they would stop chirping when full.. starting the secondary signal when no chirping is heard after a time limit? altho the idea of the full ones going off to find another source for the others still irks at me.. but the hungery ones might get in the way should they gather closely.. so this might be unavoidable.. i was also working under the assumption that the full bots would be "chirp phobic" rather then tropic.. again spreding out the pack in differnt stages of discharge and recharge >Right... Following the sun from window to window effectively would >require some speed and endurance, making a rechargeable battery >perhaps unavoidable. But the behaviour of this group may be >interesting to watch (and maddening to listen to :) hehehe yea we'll have to make sure the chirp is at an un-annoying freq. =] yes something sizable to a cordless phone battery? perhaps even smaller since they dont have to run that long.. perhaps even a smaller battery running through something like a SE so we can use a higher current battery with a lower voltage.. to keep size down.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.006FF4F7; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:22:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19800 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:16:08 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04931 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:14:34 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QEU12570; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:42 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971018.161156.8223.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199710181439.OAA13971@esgi051.cray.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,4,6-7,9 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:42 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 01:13:42 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:22:58 PM-10/18/97 01:22:59 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:22:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:39:21 -0500 (CDT) Mark Dalton writes: >Yes, something similar has been done actually. It was a Dutch physicist, that did a 'art >display' based on frog communities (not the same but may be interesting to look at). >I believe this was on "Beyond 2000", interview/presentation by Iain Finlay of Groningen, >Holland. And Felix Hess, PhD. how recent was this show? ive seen almost every episode till april when i was deprived of cable.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.006FF6C0; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:22:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19806 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:16:30 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04937 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:14:53 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QER12570; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971018.161155.8223.0.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <971018004242_1825857075@emout10.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,8-9,12-13,17-18,23-24,29-30,32-33,39-40,44-52,54 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 01:13:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:22:58 PM-10/18/97 01:22:59 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:22:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Xx1101xX@aol.com writes: > No offense taken...hehe coolie..never can tell with some ppl >I'm sorry I wasn't clear...more than one "shepherd bot" would be used...not only in >foresight that a shepherd bot WILL eventually stop functioning for one reason or >another,but,also for multiple "herds" to form... i should also clear myself up here.. i wasnt refering to only having one bot.. i ment having a ratio of less "light seekers" to the total amount of bots.. >Also,I'm glad it was pointed out that just having bots with light seeking abilities would >be "simpler lighter and cheaper"(sbolt@xs4all.nl)...but an amoeba is also simpler,lighter >and,assumably,cheaper than a human,chimp,or even a lab rat... well i think the point he was trying to make was that light seeking is easier to do then sound range finding.. then again if we want to get into complexity.. my idea is to make the shepard and sheep on the same bots.. where the presance of the chirping in its audible range will determine which it will be for the time.. >I believe that complexities must be seen for what they can offer,not exclusively their >complexity...the "shepherd/sheep" idea would simply be a "branch" stemming from simple >light-seekers,but not yet at a point where all bots will seek light and communicate it's >location,quality etc... yes a step between.. try and keep it simple to see how the idea works before trying to combine them.. i agree.. >For BEAM bots to evolve(please forgive me if this comes across as preaching),I >believe,they must continue to break their own "mold"...in 30 years,I'm positive BEAMers >will not be,at all,satisfied with creating a simple light seeker...by then, hopefully, >there will be interdependant classes of bots(no focus on any food-chain idea,though,I did >find the solar plant idea to be very intriguing)... i also feel that once we get them to an optimum working ability.. we can add other tasks other then finding enough food to get to the next food source.. of course some interactions are already apparent in bots but we could step up the "closeness to organics" >- just two more cents that,hopefully,make sense(pretty corny,I know)- uuuuug.. =] >Xx1101xX@aol.com....not XxXxxXxXXXxxXXX,Nytwulf...hehe..... >Jason Courter *grin* sorry i started typing it but forgot how exactly it went so i had fun.. =] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.006FFB62; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:23:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19809 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:16:42 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04935 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:14:48 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QEV12570; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:42 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971018.161156.8223.4.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11,14-19,23-24,27-39 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:42 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 01:13:42 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:23:18 PM-10/18/97 01:23:18 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:23:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >You may be a bit pessimistic here. The Panasonic 37mm x 82mm panel >I'm using certainly isn't large or heavy, yet manages 41mA at 3.2V >in bright sunlight; even in Dutch weather I've seen better than >10mA come out. And compared to even the best small DC motor, the >electronics for light finding and communication should be able to >make do with very little power. I don't think power would have to >be a real problem, though the `bot probably needs the ability to >store a couple of hours charge - making a 60mAh rechargeable more >appropriate than a capacitor. *nods* if i remeber correctly the cordless phone battery pack was 600mAh.. so something smaller/lighter would be better.. i should look into what might work good.. >It just seems such a contrived task, since the flock as a whole >would rate *lower* than a bunch of simple photovores in the >categories exploration, power efficiency and survival skills. that was one of my points.. with less bots actualy looking.. finding the light becomes harder.. also having tag-along bots that simply follow the others around without helping in the search or storage or whatever is usualy lost energy.. what if somehow the bots in his group could all bridge together somehow and share stored power... making it a herd of dary cows rather then sheep? >> you've heard it before,but,light-finders cannot be continuously >> built without some ultimate end in mind... >Right! of course.. everything has to go somewhere... stagnation is evil =] >Time to prove your point by building a nice group of chiefs and >followers. After all, there is nothing more convincing than working >hardware :) time for me to get my act together as well =] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.00702F63; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:25:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19812 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:18:50 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04933 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:14:44 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QES12570; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971018.161155.8223.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <971018035815_408734840@emout20.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-6,9-10,12-13,23-24,27 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:13:41 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 01:13:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 01:25:30 PM-10/18/97 01:25:32 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 01:25:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 03:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Xx1101xX@aol.com writes: > The idea I proposed was/is a sort of evolutionary bridge from light-finders to light >finding communicators and also has the attraction of specialization of tasks... perhaps we can build them seperately to see how each idea works? >At present,I don't believe it to be very practical to equip every bot with light-finding >and communication abilities(how big of a solar cell can our little bots really carry?) only part of each circut will be used at a time.. its not like we're suddently trying to run a vcr off them =] > The bots can be much more active if the tasks are split up...the lesser the amount of >tasks a bot is required to perform,the lesser the:build time,charge time,expense per >bot...Imagine a bot "caste" system where the "Head" bots would find the light... >communicate it to the "lesser"bots who would follow...you've heard it before, but, >light-finders cannot be continuously built without some ultimate end in mind...in the >future it's probable that all bots will search out light and communicate with one >another, but, I don't see that happening any time soon...why not just go up one rung in >the ladder instead of 3 or 4?...I'm just trying to keep the horse before the cart... hehe these might be a bigger badder bot =] but it wont be that much of an increse in power that i can imagine.. just adding a few steps in i guess.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256534.00813A02; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:31:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA19906 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:25:03 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05705 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:18:32 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco7-142.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.142]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27709 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <344944A6.FB@golden.net> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:22:14 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 References: <19971018.161156.8223.4.nytwulf@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/18/97 04:22:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 04:31:37 PM-10/18/97 04:31:37 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 04:31:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US nytwulf wrote > i remeber correctly the cordless phone battery pack was > 600mAh.. so something smaller/lighter would be better.. You remember wrongly... Unless the cordless phone weight 2 lbs.... Ni-Cad have a distressinly low energy density and cordless phone batteries are typically 30-80mAh.... If you've got an expensive one with the Nickle metal-hydride batteries then you may have 500mA..... cell phones (which are 2/3 battery these days) have about 1200mAh tops... Alkaline and lithium ion batteries are a WHOLE wackin great heap better... For instance a C size Nicad is 1.2V 1800mAh and even a cheap C size alkaline is 1.5V 4800mA...... D size Energizers are rated at _15Ah_.... No wonder that damn bunny keeps going and going.... If your wondering where I'm getting this... I did some prototyping for a medical company a couple of years ago and one of the main design tasks was to cram as much battery life into as little space as possible... So I did some tests... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00066E0D; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:10:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA19957 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:03:42 -0700 Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05875 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:59:30 -0500 Received: from witchblade (d156.cloud.interaccess.com [207.70.66.156]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA06390 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:54:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971018195910.00967ca0@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: wdw@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:59:14 -0500 To: Beam Mailing List From: Weylan Wang Subject: Micro solar engine help... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wdw@interaccess.com From: wdw@interaccess.com Subject: Micro solar engine help... PostedDate: 10/18/97 05:59:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/18/97 06:10:18 PM-10/18/97 06:10:19 PM DeliveredDate: 10/18/97 06:10:19 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I must have done something wrong. I am using a pager motor with the micro solar engine. The 4 transistor version. Nothing goes umph! So it is question time... In the circut, are the 2x 470K resistors connected? Can I just use a 1M resitor as a test? Is the LED a blinking led? 3904 Is it CbE When looking at the flat side reading left to right? 3906 is it CbE When looking at the flat side reading left to right? Weylan Wang 847 634-9355 Work 847 975-8583 Cellular 847 817-9511 Pager 847 821-9877 Home $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.002C93D1; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:04:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA20140 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:57:43 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06278 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:55:02 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-05.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.6]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA22592; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:54:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:00:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Richard Weait cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 01:00:25 AM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 01:04:40 AM-10/19/97 01:04:42 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 01:04:42 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Richard Weait wrote: > I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) Um... I suppose I'm too old to know Joe Michael? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00305E7A; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:48:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA20162 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:41:29 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06414 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 03:42:34 -0500 Received: from sb2 (ts50ip46.cadvision.com [207.228.73.46]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id CAA158976; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:42:05 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971019024103.00b0ea50@wingate> X-Sender: skip#cadvision.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:41:03 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , Richard Weait From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 01:41:03 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 01:48:22 AM-10/19/97 01:48:23 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 01:48:23 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:00 AM 10/19/1997 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >> I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) >Um... I suppose I'm too old to know Joe Michael? If you frequent COMP.ROBOTICS.MISC, he's the dude with the Fractal fixation. You know, "If you want to see the most absurd, mind-numbing, future-fake, conceptual robot designs of all time, come to my site and order this CD!". Talks well enough, but too bad it's always "If given 2 million, this tech could be building the space station in 2001!" No prototypes, no working models, just computer graphics. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.003452CE; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:31:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA20177 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:24:58 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06551 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:23:50 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.2]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id LAA00741 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:23:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:29:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <19971018.161155.8223.2.nytwulf@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 02:29:14 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 02:31:35 AM-10/19/97 02:31:36 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 02:31:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Earik Wulf wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:16:35 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt > writes: > >You might have two chirp modes, the first being a signal that the > >bots use to *avoid* getting close to each other. That spreads them > >out, so they cover the ground floor of the house, looking for the > >best window. > > yes yes.. like when they are "full".. after charging up the 'storage cap' > as apposed to only having enough capacitance to keep going.. have the > juice dumped into another larger cap so it can soak up the rays.. perhaps > a modified solar engine could handle it? Full `stomach' or light getting dim... And I suspect that a rechargeable is more appropriate. For my little Spider I'll be using two 60mAh, 2.4V Varta rechargeables, which are supposed to be NiMh (nothing on the case except voltage and mAh). Together they weigh 16 grams, and I expect to get 1 to 1.5 hours of walking, sensing and `thinking' out of a full charge. > perhaps even a smaller battery running through something like a > SE so we can use a higher current battery with a lower voltage.. > to keep size down.. The 60mAH type is small and light enough, and more than capable of driving the Spider's motors. I'm very happy with those Varta's. > >Some way of separating the signals of different `bots is needed. > >Possibly in time - having the bots talk in turn. > > that would be good.. but i was working under the assumption of a clouding > effect.. where the bot hears a bunch of bots beeping in "that direction" > the more bots the more chirps are heard in that area.. bringing > stragalers in faster perhaps.. That may cause them to follow a roundabout route to the best found light. Time multiplexing would allow them to aim directly for the best reported quality. `Bots might be made to talk in turn by simply having each of them wait a certain while after the previous signal stops, before transmitting his own. Suppose number two waits 5 seconds, number three waits ten seconds, and so on. Then after number one has broadcast his light quality, number two will automatically be next, and number three will reset his wait-counter, so he starts talking ten seconds after number two stops, and so on. Previous ones on the list won't but in before everyone has had his say, because a bot doesn't speak again for a properly chosen period (depending on the total number of `bots) after having broadcasted his message. This method keeps the `channel' clear, and also conserves energy. > they would stop chirping when full.. starting the secondary signal when > no chirping is heard after a time limit? They will need to `know' when they have arrived at the location where the `bot reporting the best light is. I think they should not chirp at all while en-route to that location, and not while they are there either. Only the bot who originally found the best light keeps chirping its quality, calling other `bots. At some point in time, one of the `bots will decide it is time to go - because the light gets dimmer. He will initiate the `drive away' signal, which is then taken over by all the other bots, making them move away in different directions, once again looking for better light. Again, it may be best if each `speaks' in turn. If the general light level falls below a certain point, the `bots should perhaps simply go to sleep. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00345300; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:31:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA20178 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:24:59 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06550 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:23:50 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.2]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id LAA00708; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:23:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:29:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Weylan Wang cc: Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971018195910.00967ca0@pop.interaccess.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... PostedDate: 10/19/97 02:29:03 AM SendTo: wdw@interaccess.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 02:31:35 AM-10/19/97 02:31:37 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 02:31:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Weylan Wang wrote: > I must have done something wrong. > I am using a pager motor with the micro solar engine. > The 4 transistor version. > > Nothing goes umph! So it is question time... > > In the circut, are the 2x 470K resistors connected? No. Those lines in the diagram cross, but don't touch. > Can I just use a 1M resitor as a test? Perhaps, though the value seems high for a simple go/no go test. > Is the LED a blinking led? No, it's a green LED. > 3904 Is it CbE When looking at the flat side reading left to right? > 3906 is it CbE When looking at the flat side reading left to right? Looking at the flat side, the three legs pointing downwards, I read EBC for the 2N3904; the 3906 should have the same pinout. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00348BD7; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:33:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA20182 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:27:24 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06546 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:23:28 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.2]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id LAA00681 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:23:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:28:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <344944A6.FB@golden.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 02:28:53 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 02:34:08 AM-10/19/97 02:34:09 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 02:34:09 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Andrew Miller wrote: > nytwulf wrote > > > i remeber correctly the cordless phone battery pack was > > 600mAh.. so something smaller/lighter would be better.. > > You remember wrongly... > Unless the cordless phone weight 2 lbs.... > > Ni-Cad have a distressinly low energy density and cordless phone > batteries are typically 30-80mAh.... For my little Spider I'll be using two 60mAh, 2.4V Varta rechargeables, which are supposed to be NiMh (nothing on the case except voltage and mAh). Together they weigh 16 grams, and I expect to get 1 to 1.5 hours of walking, sensing and `thinking' out of a full charge. I'm happy with the power density, which compares rather well with a capacitor's... Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.003EF34A; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:27:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA20214 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:20:47 -0700 Received: from judge.lis.net.au (judge.lis.net.au [203.35.83.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07047 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:16:30 -0500 Received: from greg (juror34.lis.net.au [203.35.83.73]) by judge.lis.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08058; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:14:08 +1000 Message-ID: <3449EA81.4F85B216@lis.net.au> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:09:53 +1000 From: Greg Denehy Organization: AMD Web Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Bolt CC: Weylan Wang , Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: gdenehy@lis.net.au From: gdenehy@lis.net.au Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... PostedDate: 10/19/97 04:09:53 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl CopyTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 04:27:37 AM-10/19/97 04:27:38 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 04:27:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Steven Bolt wrote: > > Is the LED a blinking led? > > No, it's a green LED. > Why a 'GREEN' LED in particular. I used orange and it worked. Is there a difference? Should it be normal current, or low current? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.0041079D; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:50:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA20223 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 04:43:41 -0700 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA07160 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:45:53 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2025036; 19 Oct 97 12:36 BST Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:03:40 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: Commo II In-Reply-To: <34435096.1283@iupui.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.04 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Commo II PostedDate: 10/19/97 04:03:40 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 04:50:24 AM-10/19/97 04:50:25 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 04:50:25 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article <34435096.1283@iupui.edu>, John and Kelly writes >A while ago ( I don't remember any details, but a search of back issues >in >the library will turn it up ) in Scientific American there was a article >about >a lego based robot which could follow artifical cricket chirps. In the >article This sounds similar to the cricket phonotaxis system developed by Barbra Webb and John Hallam. I went to Edinburgh university and saw this sort of thing in action. A couple of microphones were attached to a small khepera robot (pretending to be a female cricket), and the little beastie was able to navigate very effectively towards a box containing _real_ chirping (male) crickets. Cool. There is an article in SAB4 on this experiment, which contains some interesting schematics that you might want to look at. Cheers, Bob -- |~~~~~~~|__ "Nothing that is worth (~~~~~~~)_ \ knowing can be tought" | | \ \ - Oscar Wilde ( ) ) ) | |_/ / Bob Mottram ( )__/ Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk \_____/ http://www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.0043A4F3; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 05:18:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA20232 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 05:12:07 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07312 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:13:12 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-135.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.135]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA07782 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 08:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3449FA49.6AA7@golden.net> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 08:17:13 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 05:17:13 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 05:18:59 AM-10/19/97 05:19:00 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 05:19:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Steven Bolt wrote: > > Ni-Cad have a distressinly low energy density and cordless phone > I'm happy with the power density, which compares rather well with > a capacitor's... > True.... Bateries of all sorts are a chunk better than capacitors (although they do have the nasty habit of taking 120% in for the energy out)... This kind of energy density is fine when building a high efish machine like Steven's spider but when scaled to somthing like an electric car it kacks out.... GM's new EV1 electric car goes an average of 60miles on a full charge in its High grade lead acid Batteries (roughly a zillion times the engery density of Ni-Cads).... This translates into about the same energy as two quarts of gasoline but accounts for almost half of the vehicle's weight...... Battery tech has a long way to go before we can all expect to be scooting aroung in electric cars or flying electric planes... BEAM stuff is only gonna get better as the batteries do... Stuff like Tildens Stryder bot walk for four hours on 60maH batteries, imagine what it could do with a decent 4Ah battery the same size... Actually you don't have to imagine the math is pretty simple... I'm hoping they deliver real soon on those plastic batteries they keep spouting about in the science journels.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.004BAF1D; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:46:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA20253 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:39:55 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07519 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 08:40:33 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-04.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.5]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id PAA00776 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:40:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:45:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971019024103.00b0ea50@wingate> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 06:45:57 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 06:46:48 AM-10/19/97 06:46:49 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 06:46:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: [ Joe Michael? ] > > If you frequent COMP.ROBOTICS.MISC, he's the dude with the Fractal > fixation. You know, "If you want to see the most absurd, mind-numbing, > future-fake, conceptual robot designs of all time, come to my site and > order this CD!". > > Talks well enough, but too bad it's always "If given 2 million, this tech > could be building the space station in 2001!" No prototypes, no working > models, just computer graphics. An `armchair roboticist'. Amazing how simple it can all seem to be, when theorized on screen or paper. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00507C71; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:39:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20266 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:32:23 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07681 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:33:47 -0500 Received: from ts1-09.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.134] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xMwQJ-0000AB-00; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:33:44 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:59:55 -0400 To: Greg Denehy , Steven Bolt From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... Cc: Weylan Wang , Beam Mailing List Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... PostedDate: 10/19/97 06:59:55 AM SendTo: gdenehy@lis.net.au,sbolt@xs4all.nl CopyTo: wdw@interaccess.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 07:39:14 AM-10/19/97 07:39:15 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 07:39:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:09 PM 10/19/97 +1000, Greg Denehy wrote: >Steven Bolt wrote: > >> > Is the LED a blinking led? >> >> No, it's a green LED. >> > >Why a 'GREEN' LED in particular. I used orange and it worked. Is there >a difference? > >Should it be normal current, or low current? > Different colour (that's Canadian for "color") LED's have different V_f (forward voltages) Changing the colour (V_f) will change the trigger points of the circuit. If I remember correctly, this was covered in Steve and Ken's description of the circuit. You can also change the trigger points by adding / removing the small signal diodes in series. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00507FD3; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:39:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20269 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:32:49 -0700 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07678 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:33:25 -0500 Received: from ts1-09.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.134] by inforamp.net with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xMwQD-0000AB-00; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:33:38 -0400 X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:59:49 -0400 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 06:59:49 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 07:39:24 AM-10/19/97 07:39:25 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 07:39:25 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:00 AM 10/19/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Richard Weait wrote: > >> I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) > >Um... I suppose I'm too old to know Joe Michael? > > Joseph Michael sometimes posts to comp.robotics.misc and other groups on subjects relating to his "fractal robots." His website shows some simulations and has a CD-ROM for sale. Some posters to c.r.m have been critical of Joe's enthusiasm : prototype ratio. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.0051DF02; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:54:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20276 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:47:20 -0700 Received: from oasis.novia.net (oasis.novia.net [204.248.24.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07843 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:44:56 -0500 Received: from jlz.mylink.net (208-149-120-107.novia.net [208.149.120.107]) by oasis.novia.net (8.8.7/Novia) with SMTP id JAA24195 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:44:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971019095133.006acc74@pop.novia.net> X-Sender: jlz@pop.novia.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:51:33 -0500 To: Bob Mottram From: John Leo Zimmer Subject: Re: Commo II In-Reply-To: References: <34435096.1283@iupui.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: jlz@novia.net From: jlz@novia.net Subject: Re: Commo II PostedDate: 10/19/97 07:51:33 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 07:54:22 AM-10/19/97 07:54:24 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 07:54:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > >This sounds similar to the cricket phonotaxis system developed >by Barbra Webb and John Hallam. I went to Edinburgh university >and saw this sort of thing in action. A couple of microphones >were attached to a small khepera robot (pretending to be a >female cricket), and the little beastie was able to navigate >very effectively towards a box containing _real_ chirping (male) >crickets. Cool. > Thanks for bringing it up. Among her findings was that both artificial and real girl crickets were able to choose among competing males fairly efficiently. There is more to the detector than just two microphones, too. Turns out the cricket's ears are in their (hollow) legs; and interference/reinforcement between them, carried to the opposite side by a sound channel through the body is all tuned to the frequency of the chirping. Thus different species of cricket are tuned to different frequencies. Webb had to chose frequencies (lower, I'd suppose) scaled to the larger body of her bots. All this seems very beamish to me. And there are lots of implications to the speculation in this present thread, I think. >There is an article in SAB4 on this experiment, which contains >some interesting schematics that you might want to look at. > What's SAB4, please? JLZ in Iowa $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00654151; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:25:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20378 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:19:25 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08195 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:31 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzT05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.4.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-8 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Micro solar engine help... PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:26:03 AM-10/19/97 11:26:04 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:26:04 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:09:53 +1000 Greg Denehy writes: >> > Is the LED a blinking led? >> No, it's a green LED. >Why a 'GREEN' LED in particular. I used orange and it worked. Is there a difference? >Should it be normal current, or low current? isnt it green that draws the least juice? or was that red? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00654543; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:26:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20381 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:19:40 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08197 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:34 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzX05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.8.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:26:13 AM-10/19/97 11:26:15 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:26:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:41:03 -0600 Dave Hrynkiw writes: >>> I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) >If you frequent COMP.ROBOTICS.MISC, he's the dude with the Fractal >fixation. You know, "If you want to see the most absurd, mind-numbing, >No prototypes, no working models, just computer graphics. heheh me without the graphics.. :P $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.006547E1; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:26:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20388 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:19:47 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08206 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:50 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzQ05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141233.8079.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <19971018.161156.8223.4.nytwulf@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-9,11-15,17-18,20,23-24,26-27,31-37 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:26:24 AM-10/19/97 11:26:24 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:26:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:22:14 -0400 Andrew Miller writes: >nytwulf wrote >You remember wrongly... >Unless the cordless phone weight 2 lbs.... >Ni-Cad have a distressinly low energy density and cordless phone >batteries are typically 30-80mAh.... >If you've got an expensive one with the Nickle metal-hydride batteries >then you may have 500mA..... i dont remember if it was nicad or not.. but i remember reading the 600mah unless it was mAm? but i doubt that.. ill try and find it again.. >cell phones (which are 2/3 battery these days) have about 1200mAh >tops... i know it wasnt one of those.. but those things are too damn heavy anyhow.. >Alkaline and lithium ion batteries are a WHOLE wackin great heap better... >For instance a C size Nicad is 1.2V 1800mAh and even a cheap C size alkaline is 1.5V >4800mA...... D size Energizers are rated at _15Ah_.... No wonder that damn bunny keeps >going and going.... geez.. 15? where did you find this? every battery label except the battery packs ive come across doesnt have the mah rating on them.. >If your wondering where I'm getting this... I did some prototyping for a medical company >a couple of years ago and one of the main design tasks was to cram as much battery life >into as little space as possible... So I did some tests... ahhh okie... answered me without even sending the reply.. =] how much are in watch batteries? and are there rechargeable kinds? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00654820; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:26:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20389 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:19:48 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08203 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:47 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzV05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.6.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-5,7-8,10-11,17-21,23 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:26:24 AM-10/19/97 11:26:25 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:26:25 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 08:17:13 -0400 Andrew Miller writes: >True.... >Bateries of all sorts are a chunk better than capacitors (although they do have the nasty >habit of taking 120% in for the energy out)... its that bad? eeesh.. btw how long do those bats charge steve? (this is prolly simple math but im about to goto bed.. :P ) >Battery tech has a long way to go before we can all expect to be scooting aroung in >electric cars or flying electric planes... the best application of an electric vehicle ive seen sofar was a moped like idea.. since most of them dont go more then 35-45mph anyhow.. and are used primarily as an in-town putt-putt =] the batteries are smaller then what you would need for a car.. so in effect.. it still makes use of the same advantages as the spider where its not so big that it kills itself.. >I'm hoping they deliver real soon on those plastic batteries they keep >spouting about in the science journels.... that would be a great thing indeed.. especialy if you can have them made into shapes.. i.e. battery/frame $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00654960; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:26:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20393 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:19:52 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08208 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:56 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzR05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141233.8079.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,5-7,9-10,15-16,18-19,21-24,35,37-38,43-44,48,52, 55-57,60-61,65-66,71-72,78-80 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:26:25 AM-10/19/97 11:26:26 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:26:26 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:29:14 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >> yes yes.. like when they are "full".. after charging up the 'storage cap' as apposed to >>only having enough capacitance to keep going.. have the juice dumped into another larger >>cap so it can soak up the rays.. perhaps a modified solar engine could handle it? >Full `stomach' or light getting dim... *nods* some kind of tie-in of a light sensor can lie to the bot saying its full when it gets dim.. making it want to look around more >And I suspect that a rechargeable is more appropriate. For my little Spider I'll be using >two 60mAh, 2.4V Varta rechargeables, which are supposed to be NiMh (nothing on the case >except voltage and mAh). Together they weigh 16 grams, and I expect to get 1 to 1.5 hours >of walking, sensing and `thinking' out of a full charge. is there a special place to get ahold of these? or are they a local thing? >The 60mAH type is small and light enough, and more than capable of driving the Spider's >motors. I'm very happy with those Varta's. how many motors are on it? i would like to keep to a two motor design.. >That may cause them to follow a roundabout route to the best found light. Time >multiplexing would allow them to aim directly for the best reported quality. `Bots might >be made to talk in turn by simply having each of them wait a certain while after the >previous signal stops, before transmitting his own. Suppose number two waits 5 seconds, >number three waits ten seconds, and so on. Then after number one has broadcast his light >quality, number two will automatically be next, and number three will reset his >wait-counter, so he starts talking ten seconds after number two stops, and so on. >Previous ones on the list won't but in before everyone has had his say, because a bot >doesn't speak again for a properly chosen period (depending on the total number of `bots) >after having broadcasted his message. This method keeps the `channel' clear, and also >conserves energy. would turn based chirping make the bots start heading towards the bots in order rather then value? what if we have them start chirping once the light is above a set level and the first one to chirp keeps doing so while the others are muted.. if they disperse evenly.. then they would always be moving to the next closest light source, right? >They will need to `know' when they have arrived at the location where the `bot reporting >the best light is. I think they should not chirp at all while en-route to that location, >and not while they are there either. Only the bot who originally found the best light >keeps chirping its quality, calling other `bots. At some point in time, one of the `bots >will decide it is time to go - because the light gets dimmer. He will initiate the `drive >away' signal, which is then taken over by all the other bots, making them move away in >different directions, once again looking for better light. Again, it may be best if each >`speaks' in turn. If the general light level falls below a certain point, the `bots >should perhaps simply go to sleep. well they could stop once they reach the spot with a light level equal to or greater then the one being chirped out.. perhaps then if its greater it can chirp back the better spot? as far as proximity goes.. we could put out feelers that would have a logic state.. when another bot came close enough to contact these feelers.. it would know they are touching bots not just an obstical in the way to be avoided.. im thinking only one bot should send out the disperse call.. wait a sec.. if we have them use the idea above.. simply turning off the logic state would make it think that the bot is just an obstical to move away from.. they would kinda bump each other out of the way.. kind of like a ripple in water ok.. the first one chirping would have the logic state on.. as others come to its call they would contact the feelers with perhaps contact plates behind the feelers.. once locating the bot they would turn on thier logic state for the others to touch.. only the first bot to find the light will chirp.. and only bots with contact to other bots will recharge the battery rather then power the motors.. ive lost it completely eh? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00656575; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:27:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20396 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:20:58 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08193 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:29 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzW05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.7.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:27:35 AM-10/19/97 11:27:36 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:27:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:00:25 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Richard Weait wrote: >> I didn't know Joe Michael was in this thread. :-) >Um... I suppose I'm too old to know Joe Michael? thats ok.. im prolly too young.. :P $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.00659BF6; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:29:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20403 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:23:18 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08191 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:22 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzY05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.9.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:47 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Commo 1101 PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:29:58 AM-10/19/97 11:29:59 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:29:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:45:57 +0200 (MET DST) Steven Bolt writes: >An `armchair roboticist'. Amazing how simple it can all seem to be, when theorized on >screen or paper. *gets all quiet and stuff now* hey im gonna order that kit someday.. =] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 88256535.0065BE56; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:31:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20406 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:24:46 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08201 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:15:43 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OzU05845; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Commo II Message-ID: <19971019.141234.8079.5.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,7-10,13 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Earik Wulf) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:46 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Commo II PostedDate: 10/19/97 11:14:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 10/19/97 11:31:30 AM-10/19/97 11:31:30 AM DeliveredDate: 10/19/97 11:31: