$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.00504BF4; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:37:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA10928 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:25:34 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA24538 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:07:06 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup17.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.236]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA12232; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:22:14 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970801095959.0095f380@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:59:59 -0400 To: "Richard R. Diaz" , beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Sub-Micro Servos In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Sub-Micro Servos PostedDate: 08/01/97 06:59:59 AM SendTo: richard.diaz@lcra.org,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/01/97 07:37:09 AM-08/01/97 07:37:10 AM DeliveredDate: 08/01/97 07:37:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Alright, Now, does anyone have a brief (or not-so-brief) explanation on "How to utilize servos in a walker." I have never taken one apart, but i know there are stops and some electronics in those thingys. servo disection: -take apart servo -remove electronics -remove stops -put back together (i am winging it here guys...) -put in walker any comments on servo efficiencies? Is the Cirrus sub-micro servo very efficient (i would assume yes, since it is small)? How about robustness-in terms of gear strippage? Just looking out for other motor sources, Brian At 09:54 PM 7/31/97 -0600, Richard R. Diaz wrote: >Check out http://www.hobbyshack.com/features/cs020.htm for info & >photo of a new ball bearing sub-micro servo (CS-20) made by Cirrus. >0.86 x 0.43 x 0.83 inches, 0.32 oz weight. Torque @ 4.8v = 11.11 oz/in. >Price is $22.99. They can be reached at 1-800-854-8471. --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.005B2040; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:35:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11264 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:23:56 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25327 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:47:37 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts49ip245.cadvision.com [207.228.72.245]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA95364; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:47:13 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970801095310.00cad548@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:53:10 -0600 To: "Brian O. Bush" , "Richard R. Diaz" , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Sub-Micro Servos In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970801095959.0095f380@wingate> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Sub-Micro Servos PostedDate: 08/01/97 08:53:10 AM SendTo: bbush@xtdl.com,richard.diaz@lcra.org,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/01/97 09:35:30 AM-08/01/97 09:35:31 AM DeliveredDate: 08/01/97 09:35:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:59 AM 8/1/1997 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >servo disection: >-take apart servo >-remove electronics >-remove stops >-put back together (i am winging it here guys...) >-put in walker Here's an excerpt from our "ScoutWalker 1.1" guide: ------------------------------------------------------------ Start by removing the bottom plate from the servo, and be careful not to lose the screws (sorry to sound like your mom, but these are dang-near impossible to replace). Gently pry the servos electronic guts out with a electronic-guts puller tool (if that's not handy, use a screwdriver). The PCB is connected to the servo motor and feedback pot, so expect to see these as you pull the whole assembly out. Remove the motor from the PCB by desoldering it from the solder mounting pads indicated. As for the leftover PCB and pot, you can feed it to your cat or dog, but not your hampster - that would be silly... Gently push the motor back into place. Then solder the full length of wire onto the motor and put the bottom plate back on. Then measure only 2" from where the wire leaves the servo and clip off the extra wire. Repeat the whole thing over again on the other servo, but keep all the remaining wire connected to the servo. ------------------------------------------------------------ You don't need to remove the stops for most walker applications, as the travel extents are usually less than the 270 degrees the servo stops allow. >any comments on servo efficiencies? Eh. So-so. You simply can't get a better gearmotor for less. The motors in these things ain't the greatest, but they're acceptable. The geartrains are less than precision, and them make considerable noise (straight spur gears) compared to a true "micromo" style gearhead. >Is the Cirrus sub-micro servo very >efficient (i would assume yes, since it is small)? How about robustness-in >terms of gear strippage? These ones shouldn't be bad, as they have the ball-bearing to support the shaft. But take a look at the torque rating - only 11 in-oz of torque. The servos we use for the ScoutWalker use "standard" size 42 in-oz torque servos. It depends on what the application is, and how much leg power (determined by the leg length) you're after. In general, hobby servos are pretty decent bets, and the replacement geartrains are a hell-of-a-lot cheaper than buying a set from Micromo! Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.006C083C; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:40:00 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA11773 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:28:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04390 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26463 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:00:58 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OtZ03581; Fri, 01 Aug 1997 14:59:19 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: voltage checking? Message-ID: <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8-10,19-29,33-34,37-40 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 14:59:19 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/01/97 11:59:19 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/01/97 12:40:03 PM-08/01/97 12:40:05 PM DeliveredDate: 08/01/97 12:40:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US i was wondering if there is a device or circut that can mesure the voltage of a source lets say a battery.. and send out a signal if the source voltage is above or below a preset value? if there is.. would it not need to only operate intermitently to not draw too much off the source? i had an idea for a photoroller that would search out light only when its rechargable batteries are low but will do other things if it has enough power.... possibly using a photopopping effect to get to the light source.. i also have a frame from a toy car that used a small keypad on the roof to allow you to program a set of directions for it to follow.. the drive train uses front wheel drive where the two motors opperate the wheels but the section the wheels and motor are attached is free spinning with about.. 60 degrees turn in each direction.. with a spring to bring it back to center.. now if lets say photoresistors are placed on the corners of the back of the frame and the motors are powered in reverse so that it drives backwards.. it would drive its self into the direction of the light.. if im not making sence ill try and sketch it in Courier. [bwheel1] [fwheel] [c1] | | | | [fulcrum]-------------- | | | | [bwheel2] [fwheel] [c2] ok.. in the toy what was the back is now the front.. as c1 is triggered by the light it causes bwheel1 to increase speed over bwheel2.. making the drive section turn clockwise and causeing the vehicle to move counterclockwise towards the light.. this may be on old idea but i thought of it last night while trying to get to bed.. if it works for any of you please let me know or if you have better ideas.. B. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.00705372; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:26:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA11967 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:15:33 -0700 From: JNNREaton@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26928 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:07:33 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA29593 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970801160720_-1507851355@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack SMTPOriginator: JNNREaton@aol.com From: JNNREaton@aol.com Subject: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack PostedDate: 08/01/97 01:07:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/01/97 01:27:00 PM-08/01/97 01:27:01 PM DeliveredDate: 08/01/97 01:27:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Guys, I just became aware of a potential source for used beam motors. There is a controller accessory called a "Rumble Pak" that came with the Star Fox game that my boys just bought. The rumble pak is a small grey plastic box about the size of a pager that plugs into the back of the Nintendo 64 controller that causes the controller to vibrate at certain parts of the game. I have not taken it apart, but I bet it is just a vibrating pager motor. It came with two AAA batteries, I am waiting to see how long they last. My guess is that the novelty of this will quickly wear off when people get tired of replacing the batteries, depending on how long they last. (My boys have to buy their own batteries.) I expect to see these things show up at garage sales for a dollar or less. Could be fun. That is all. Jim Eaton LaCrescent Minnesota $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E8.00689DB3; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:02:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA13606 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:51:20 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06409 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:41:16 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.232] (dialup13.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.232]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04583 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:56:46 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:46:04 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: timing motors SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: timing motors PostedDate: 08/03/97 11:46:04 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/03/97 12:02:45 PM-08/03/97 12:02:45 PM DeliveredDate: 08/03/97 12:02:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all. I was wondering what kind of gearing is inside of a timing motor? You know the ones that run on 115VAC and have 1 RPM output. They seem awful similar to the oven timers that BEAMers use....are they similar? Thanks, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E8.00737C1F; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:01:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA13671 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:50:02 -0700 Received: from digisys.net (onyx.digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07067 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:43:42 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (modem181.digisys.net [205.218.31.54]) by digisys.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01439 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <12E99B58.2DAC@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 1980 02:45:44 -0800 From: Scott Miller Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: smontana@digisys.net From: smontana@digisys.net Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack PostedDate: 01/21/80 02:45:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/03/97 02:01:28 PM-08/03/97 02:01:28 PM DeliveredDate: 08/03/97 02:01:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The motor in the Rumble Pack will run 50-60 hours on 2 "AAA" batteries. Is that efficient, or not? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E8.008314F0; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:51:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA13761 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:40:23 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07907 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:38:47 -0500 Received: from ts79ip198.cadvision.com (ts79ip198.cadvision.com [207.228.113.198]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA187702 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:38:11 -0600 Received: by ts79ip198.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA033.1CDF3E20@ts79ip198.cadvision.com>; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:31:44 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCA033.1CDF3E20@ts79ip198.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Evolution of robotics Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:31:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/03/97 04:31:37 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/03/97 04:51:53 PM-08/03/97 04:51:53 PM DeliveredDate: 08/03/97 04:51:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have really thought through this, and some of my emails that I wrote before would not have made much sense, except to me. If you read my nanotech one, I was more talking about having say nanotech robots inside your body repairing tissue. Than very small nano sized drill bits for precise projects, or the millions of possibility's. Well here is one that people should understand: I am having a lot of "visions" (not like a psychic hotline kind of vision) about new robotic uses, a robot that serves me drinks and cleans my house I wouldn't mind, but face it if we had them we would all get even more lazy. That's not the worst thing though, If an asteroid was heading for earth what would you rather have? A: The government sending 100's of nukes to make the asteroid break up and have millions of pieces of debris coming at earth instead. B: sending a robot to point a laser or beam of magnified sunlight at the asteroid, causing it to heat up and get re directed on another course. C: Having robots land on the asteroid, use rockets to make the asteroid take a slightly different course, just enough to get it caught in the earth's gravitational pull. So that the material in the asteroid can be recovered and put to use( maybe a nice 5 mile wide platinum source) Most people would choose b or C, but it depends on how bad shape the earth is in when it is going to be hit. The way the planet is going, in 30 years it might be barely livable , and people might be living somewhere in space not caring about earth. There are a lot of idea's That I was going to put, but this is enough to spring some thoughts in a few people. Besides, I'm sure people rather would be building robots right now than reading an 30 page email, and I sure don't want to type that this evening Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EA.006BBACB; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:36:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20268 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:24:19 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20007 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:12:43 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip151.cadvision.com [207.228.74.151]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA126194; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:11:21 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970805114055.00c6b16c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 11:40:55 -0600 To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: voltage checking? In-Reply-To: <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/05/97 10:40:55 AM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/05/97 12:36:48 PM-08/05/97 12:36:49 PM DeliveredDate: 08/05/97 12:36:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:59 PM 8/1/1997 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >i was wondering if there is a device or circut that can mesure the >voltage of a source lets say a battery.. and send out a signal if the >source voltage is above or below a preset value? if there is.. would it >not need to only operate intermitently to not draw too much off the >source? Yup, there are such devices, and many variations of it. You're looking for a comparitor, which is usually done with Op-amps. They don't take too much power, and are not hard to wire up. Take a look at the Forrest Mimms "OP-AMP" notebook available at Radio Shack (one of my favourite references). There are other devices out there that are designed to monitor batteries in a similar fashion using very power-efficient techniques. Take a boo thru any Digikey or Mouser catalogue and watch for battery watchdogs or monitors. Good luck, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EA.006CF78E; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:50:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20313 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:38:44 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20001 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:12:31 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip151.cadvision.com [207.228.74.151]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA134886; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:11:39 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970805115908.0068a3c0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 11:59:08 -0600 To: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: timing motors In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: timing motors PostedDate: 08/05/97 10:59:08 AM SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/05/97 12:50:24 PM-08/05/97 12:50:25 PM DeliveredDate: 08/05/97 12:50:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:46 PM 8/3/1997 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >I was wondering what kind of gearing is inside of a timing motor? You know >the ones that run on 115VAC and have 1 RPM output. They seem awful similar >to the oven timers that BEAMers use....are they similar? It sounds like to me that they're one and the same item. I've seen these timing motors inside ovens, dryers, dishwashers and washing machines. The newer ones are one complete module (just add 115VAC), but you want the ones with the square iron induction core with the gearset sealed in a tin cup inserted into a circular cutout on the core. They work best. Variations I have seen include all metal gears, punched fibre-board gears, and (my favourite) plastic & metal combination gears. These are the easiest to work with, as you can shove a 1mm motor shaft into the gear where the 1mm gear shaft used to be. (Guess what size the old pager motor shaft size is?). The new motors we carry are 1.5mm, but I *think* they can be turned into 1mm shafts - must experiment first. We do have some of the older 1mm shafters about if anybody's interested... Dang, there seems to be a ton of interest in the OTU's lately (Oven Timer Units). We'll add a detail page about the OTUs to the website in short order - promise! Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EA.006D2E0E; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:52:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20327 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:41:05 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20107 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:21:40 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip151.cadvision.com [207.228.74.151]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA118128 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:20:51 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970805122941.00caca80@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 12:29:41 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: HEY! This looks familiar... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/05/97 11:29:41 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/05/97 12:52:37 PM-08/05/97 12:52:38 PM DeliveredDate: 08/05/97 12:52:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US MIT looks like it's latching onto BEAM Philosophy: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/mars-rovers/rockettes.html Kinda looks like some of the Solarollers we've been building for...what? 4 years now? -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EA.006D8A01; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:56:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20348 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:45:04 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20004 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:12:35 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip151.cadvision.com [207.228.74.151]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA134668; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:11:42 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970805120009.0068a218@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 12:00:09 -0600 To: Scott Miller , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack In-Reply-To: <12E99B58.2DAC@digisys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack PostedDate: 08/05/97 11:00:09 AM SendTo: smontana@digisys.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/05/97 12:56:33 PM-08/05/97 12:56:34 PM DeliveredDate: 08/05/97 12:56:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:45 AM 1/21/1980 -0800, Scott Miller wrote: >The motor in the Rumble Pack will run 50-60 hours on 2 "AAA" batteries. >Is that efficient, or not? Is that with or without the eccentric weight on the shaft? If you separate the motor from whatever makes the pack "rumble", I'm sure you'll get at least 2 times the efficiency. As is, sounds not too bad. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EA.0070145D; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:24:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA20469 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:12:48 -0700 Received: from quasar.newtonlabs.com (quasar.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.97]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20470 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:55:27 -0500 Received: from bogomips.newtonlabs.com (rsargent@bogomips.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.108]) by quasar.newtonlabs.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA01438 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:44:55 -0700 Received: (from rsargent@localhost) by bogomips.newtonlabs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15388; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:53:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:53:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199708051853.LAA15388@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> From: Randy Sargent To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack SMTPOriginator: rsargent@newtonlabs.com From: rsargent@newtonlabs.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Nintendo 64 Rumble Pack PostedDate: 08/05/97 11:53:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/05/97 01:24:16 PM-08/05/97 01:24:17 PM DeliveredDate: 08/05/97 01:24:17 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > At 02:45 AM 1/21/1980 -0800, Scott Miller wrote: > >The motor in the Rumble Pack will run 50-60 hours on 2 "AAA" batteries. > >Is that efficient, or not? > > Is that with or without the eccentric weight on the shaft? If you separate > the motor from whatever makes the pack "rumble", I'm sure you'll get at > least 2 times the efficiency. Sorry for just adding to the speculation (haven't decided to open mine up yet :-) ). Is that 50-60 hours of game time, or of the motor actually running? The motor operates well under 5% of the time during actual play. The pack is big and klunky, and I don't think the motor inside would _need_ to be small and efficient, so my personal bet is against the motor inside being anything special. -- Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Sargent Newton Research Labs Senior Design Engineer Robotic Systems and Software rsargent@newtonlabs.com http://www.newtonlabs.com/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.005691CF; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:45:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22966 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:34:01 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00729 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:14:37 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts70ip246.cadvision.com [207.228.75.246]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA170404 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:13:13 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970806091744.00b7bad0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:17:44 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: BEAM in Australian News.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: BEAM in Australian News.. PostedDate: 08/06/97 08:17:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 08:45:39 AM-08/06/97 08:45:39 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 08:45:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Check it out - we've had a sudden influx of interest from Australia. Here's why! -Dave http://www.smh.com.au/icon/content/970726/news.html -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.0057A691; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:57:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22988 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:46:00 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01172 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:42:48 -0500 Received: from mozart.montclair.edu (mozart.montclair.edu [130.68.20.3]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA26355 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:33:10 -0500 Received: from pegasus.montclair.edu (pegasus.montclair.edu [130.68.20.55]) by mozart.montclair.edu (8.6.12+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA05005 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:28:41 -0400 Received: from localhost by pegasus.montclair.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA13512; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:27:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:27:57 -0400 (EDT) From: David McCullough Reply-To: David McCullough To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Hello. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: mccullou@pegasus.montclair.edu From: mccullou@pegasus.montclair.edu Subject: Hello. PostedDate: 08/05/97 03:27:57 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: mccullou@pegasus.montclair.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 08:57:33 AM-08/06/97 08:57:34 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 08:57:34 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I'm new to robotics, but I'm finding this list very interesting. I was wondering if anyone knew of a robotics club (beam or otherwise) in the New York City area. I live in New Jersey, close to NYC. I've checked some of the online lists, but I came up empty. Thanks. Dave McCullough $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.0057F428; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:00:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA23003 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:49:23 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01142 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:42:20 -0500 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28254 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:23:03 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA01615 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts5-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts53-12.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.75]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAB17312 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708060119.VAB17312@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:59:51 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Toronto Meeting (final notice) SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Toronto Meeting (final notice) PostedDate: 08/05/97 05:59:51 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 09:00:47 AM-08/06/97 09:00:48 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 09:00:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US (Final notice) . . .and appologies to those elsewhere :) The gathering is set for this Saturday, the 9th of August. E-mail me, directly for details. We will be meeting from noon until five p.m. Everyone interested in BEAM is welcome. This will be a "getting to know you meeting" in that there will be no set speeches or presentations. Just bring your project(s) and tools and parts, and we can all work on our projects, while we give suggestions to each other. If you have goodies to trade, bring them too. Bring your own extension cord / power-bar. See you there. Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.00592E9C; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:14:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23072 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:02:41 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01110 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:41:39 -0500 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA31342 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 01:00:32 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BGN17458; Wed, 06 Aug 1997 01:58:56 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: radio shack pen motors.. Message-ID: <19970806.012810.7807.3.nytwulf@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-9 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 01:58:56 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: radio shack pen motors.. PostedDate: 08/05/97 10:58:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 09:14:13 AM-08/06/97 09:14:15 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 09:14:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US i was scavenging through the back eng of a radio shack one day when i saw a package for thier 1.5 - 3vdc pen motors and i was wondering how good those are.. because the general size of the things are just right for the toy frame i mentioned earlier.. also.. how good are the solar cells found in calculators? i was thinging of scrapping a few and wiring the cells out in serial/parallel fasion.. thanks all.. B. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.00593A6B; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:14:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23075 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:03:05 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01139 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:42:20 -0500 Received: from cphub.mail.saic.com (cpmx.saic.com [139.121.95.10]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28221 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:20:37 -0500 Received: from cpqm03.mail.saic.com by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Tue, 5 Aug 97 18:17:12 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1997 20:11:46 -0800 From: "Bill Pierce" Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar To: "beam mailing list" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 SMTPOriginator: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com From: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar PostedDate: 08/05/97 09:11:46 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 09:14:44 AM-08/06/97 09:14:46 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 09:14:46 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Very interesting. Brooks and Tilden have a history of course. It looks like a BIG "I told you so" for Mark T. ------------------------------ Date: 8/5/97 2:30 PM From: Dave Hrynkiw MIT looks like it's latching onto BEAM Philosophy: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/mars-rovers/rockettes.html Kinda looks like some of the Solarollers we've been building for...what? 4 years now? -Dave $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EB.00595F58; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:16:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23070 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:02:00 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21286 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:33:15 -0500 Received: from ts70ip227.cadvision.com (ts24ip118.cadvision.com [207.228.69.118]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id OAA34870 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:32:24 -0600 Received: by ts70ip227.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA1AB.7358A4C0@ts70ip227.cadvision.com>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:25:40 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCA1AB.7358A4C0@ts70ip227.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: rumble pack motor revealed Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:25:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: rumble pack motor revealed PostedDate: 08/05/97 01:25:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 09:16:16 AM-08/06/97 09:16:16 AM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 09:16:16 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US It's a lot bigger than a pager motor, nintendo used some less than expensive materials in this, it's price is around $20 on the shelf, but the parts, maybe 4-5 bucks. The motor is usually in walk-man's, and cassette tape players + a large pager motor head type thing, almost the same length as motor If you still are interested as using it as a source of motors, It should be sold in individual packages for $15-$30 at any big department stores or other places, by the end of 97. Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.000DF7EF; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:32:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA25927 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:21:10 -0700 Received: from ozemail.com.au (server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04961 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:20:17 -0500 Received: from goofy (slsyd9p08.ozemail.com.au [203.22.157.168]) by ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA20338; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:18:13 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970807093958.0092ba60@mail.ozemail.com.au> X-Sender: daverobo@mail.ozemail.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:39:58 +1000 To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf), beam@webconn.com From: David Robinson Subject: Re: voltage checking? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970805114055.00c6b16c@cadvision.com> References: <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: daverobo@npr.com.au From: daverobo@npr.com.au Subject: Re: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/06/97 04:39:58 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 07:32:39 PM-08/06/97 07:32:41 PM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 07:32:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Nyt, Please be aware that if your battery is going flat, the comparitor may not respond as expected if its supply voltage (ie, that same battery) is not up to specification. This is not to say that you should avoid using a comparitor, but just to be cautious. Cheers David. At 11:40 5/08/97 -0600, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: >At 02:59 PM 8/1/1997 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >>i was wondering if there is a device or circut that can mesure the >>voltage of a source lets say a battery.. and send out a signal if the >>source voltage is above or below a preset value? if there is.. would it >>not need to only operate intermitently to not draw too much off the >>source? > >Yup, there are such devices, and many variations of it. You're looking for >a comparitor, which is usually done with Op-amps. They don't take too much >power, and are not hard to wire up. Take a look at the Forrest Mimms >"OP-AMP" notebook available at Radio Shack (one of my favourite references). > >There are other devices out there that are designed to monitor batteries in >a similar fashion using very power-efficient techniques. Take a boo thru >any Digikey or Mouser catalogue and watch for battery watchdogs or monitors. > >Good luck, >Dave $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.001587E0; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:55:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA26006 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:43:34 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05544 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:05:30 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA12219 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:57:06 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA870972000 Thu, 07 Aug 97 09:39:59 Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 09:39:59 Message-Id: <9707078709.AA870972000@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM: Smart Matter Article SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: BEAM: Smart Matter Article PostedDate: 08/07/97 02:39:59 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/06/97 08:55:17 PM-08/06/97 08:55:18 PM DeliveredDate: 08/06/97 08:55:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Here's a tidbit from the PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 332 August 1, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein <...stuff deleted...> SMART MATTER, material utilizing microelectromechanical systems (MEMS), is almost sentient in that is can sense (strain, temperature, pressure, motion, etc.), actuate (push, squeeze, deflect, switch, etc.), communicate (with fibers, antennas, wires, etc.), and calculate (with microprocessors). Machines or even arrays of millimeter and micron-sized machines on a chip, made with integrated-circuit technology, are still at an early stage of deployment, but researchers foresee a micro-industrial revolution: clouds of meteorological smart dust sent to keep an eye on a hurricane, programmable silicon cilia to sort blood cells or position tiny machine parts, and microflaps to control a plane's wing shape. (Science News, 26 July.) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.0030F461; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:54:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA26202 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 00:56:11 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07033 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 02:51:33 -0500 Received: from tink (m006.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.245]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01183 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:47:20 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970807075331.0069f984@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:53:31 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: BEAM newsgroup SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 12:53:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 01:54:47 AM-08/07/97 01:54:48 AM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 01:54:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 minutes just to download the mail... then half of it is useless to me any suggestions? Andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.005B2B37; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:35:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26995 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:24:24 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09486 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:27:46 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts24ip98.cadvision.com [207.228.69.98]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA100936; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:24:59 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970807092445.00ba5890@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:24:45 -0600 To: David Robinson , nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: voltage checking? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970807093958.0092ba60@mail.ozemail.com.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19970805114055.00c6b16c@cadvision.com> <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/07/97 08:24:45 AM SendTo: daverobo@npr.com.au,nytwulf@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 09:35:55 AM-08/07/97 09:35:56 AM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 09:35:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:39 AM 8/7/1997 +1000, David Robinson wrote: >Please be aware that if your battery is going flat, the comparitor may >not respond as expected if its supply voltage (ie, that same battery) >is not up to specification. 'Tis true. We're using a comparitor that's designed for this very purpose. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.005B2B2C; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:35:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26996 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:24:28 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09665 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:53:38 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LlD05772; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:53:03 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup Message-ID: <19970807.112205.7807.0.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970807075331.0069f984@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-6,9 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:53:03 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 08:53:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 09:35:56 AM-08/07/97 09:35:56 AM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 09:35:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:53:31 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 >minutes just to download the mail... then half of it is >useless to me >any suggestions? >Andrew well some of us might have limited access to newsgroups.. what if we mirrored the mailing list to a newsgroup but keep both.. if you want to use the newsgroup insted.. you'd just unsubscribe from the email list..? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.005BBD79; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:42:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27009 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:30:24 -0700 Received: from nanaimo.ark.com (nanaimo.ark.com [207.107.182.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09756 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:01:50 -0500 Received: from na1p3.ark.com (na1p3.ark.com [207.107.182.66]) by nanaimo.ark.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30966 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: <33E980BB.E8830198@nanaimobc.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:01:00 +0100 From: Matthew Wiebe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "beam@webconn.com" Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <1.5.4.32.19970807075331.0069f984@ix.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com From: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 01:01:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 09:42:13 AM-08/07/97 09:42:14 AM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 09:42:14 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Andrew Vaughan wrote: > how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 minutes just > to > download the mail... then half of it is useless to me > > any suggestions? > Andrew I think a newsgroup is a great idea...., a lot faster too. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.006BE61E; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:38:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA27771 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:26:53 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11078 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:01:57 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA02296 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708071902.PAA02296@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp24.buffnet.net(205.246.19.131) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma018875; Thu, 7 Aug 97 14:59:59 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Solar Batterie Recharge? Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:54:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Solar Batterie Recharge? PostedDate: 08/07/97 12:54:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 12:38:38 PM-08/07/97 12:38:38 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 12:38:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I know it kinda goes against the general Idea of the whole thing, but what if you got some big strong solar cells use some of the energy to power the Robot but then the rest to recharge batteries? This would involve alot of work but... The robot would look for the BEST area for light (metting some sort of critiria) perhaps a photoresitor ontop of the robot having a higher resistance (or lower) than a Photoresitor up front? when the robot is content with it's spot have it stop and charge? BAtteries are a heck of alot more usefull that solar cells, and its appropriate when you think about it. Batteries are like natural fat, storing energy. Dennison "on the road to life... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.00705570; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:26:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27995 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:15:33 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11542 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:02:20 -0500 Received: from ts70ip227.cadvision.com (ts39ip133.cadvision.com [207.228.71.133]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA232880; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:57:55 -0600 Received: by ts70ip227.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA339.56968660@ts70ip227.cadvision.com>; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:53:52 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCA339.56968660@ts70ip227.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Dennlill'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Solar Batterie Recharge? Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:53:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Solar Batterie Recharge? PostedDate: 08/07/97 12:53:44 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 01:27:06 PM-08/07/97 01:27:08 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 01:27:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I know it kinda goes against the general Idea of the whole thing, but what if you got some big strong solar cells use some of the energy to power the Robot but then the rest to recharge batteries? This would involve alot of work but... The robot would look for the BEST area for light (metting some sort of critiria) perhaps a photoresitor ontop of the robot having a higher resistance (or lower) than a Photoresitor up front? when the robot is content with it's spot have it stop and charge? BAtteries are a heck of alot more usefull that solar cells, and its appropriate when you think about it. Batteries are like natural fat, storing energy. Well Photovores can constantly search for better light, without batteries so yea it kills most of the point. At one time I'm sure a photovore used some sort of batteries, but what people do is try to make it so efficent that it doesn't need batteries. It's like de-evolving something for nothing. Some capacitors discharge while "recharging", which is more like body fat, N-CAD bat's take around 8 hours to recharge, which will slow the robot down. The photoresistors on the photovores that I know of are all on the front top of it, 360 degree perspectives are only in few animals, for locating predators and not food. A few hundred million years of evolution isn't really a good thing not to acknowledge in designs. Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.007198E8; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:40:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA28040 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:29:17 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA11495 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:57:51 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup29.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.248]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06121 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:13:46 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970807155643.0096e910@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:56:43 -0400 To: BEAM From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Solar Batterie Recharge? In-Reply-To: <199708071902.PAA02296@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Solar Batterie Recharge? PostedDate: 08/07/97 12:56:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 01:40:53 PM-08/07/97 01:40:54 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 01:40:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US all. Well, my first thought is that batteries are very heavy... EVIL! Thus, you will need larger motors, larger motor drivers, larger solar cells, etc. Why not have a bank of 4 or 5 50 farad capacitors with some unique switching capabilities (i am speculating here) to create some sort of reserve (or as Dennlill suggests--fat) to be used when the sun is not out (or when the bot wants to get out of the way in a hurry). I am not sure how this "unique circuitry" would be assembled, but i think that comparators and some voltage monitoring would be required... along with some power switching. Any thoughts? I am still emotionally upset with my stripped gears -- *clinched teeth* it was a good free gearhead. but i still have the good efficient motor! Cheers, Brian At 02:54 PM 8/7/97 -0500, Dennlill wrote: >I know it kinda goes against the general Idea of the whole thing, but what >if you got some big strong solar cells use some of the energy to power the >Robot but then the rest to recharge batteries? This would involve alot of >work but... > >The robot would look for the BEST area for light (metting some sort of >critiria) perhaps a photoresitor ontop of the robot having a higher >resistance (or lower) than a Photoresitor up front? > >when the robot is content with it's spot have it stop and charge? > >BAtteries are a heck of alot more usefull that solar cells, and its >appropriate when you think about it. Batteries are like natural fat, >storing energy. > >Dennison > >"on the road to life... > > --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.007BEF4D; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:33:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA28569 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:21:39 -0700 Received: from mail.llu.edu (mail.llu.edu [151.112.2.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12376 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:52:44 -0500 Received: from llu.edu.llu.edu ([151.112.23.43]) by mail.llu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18890 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33EA43DB.7DC6395D@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:53:32 -0700 From: Scott Andress X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: New photovore... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: srandress@earthlink.net From: srandress@earthlink.net Subject: New photovore... PostedDate: 08/07/97 02:53:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 03:33:50 PM-08/07/97 03:33:51 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 03:33:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If you're interested, check out my new photovore - 'Flea' - at my robot web page. Many thanks to Mark T. for the design and balance tips! -Scott Andress http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8005/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.007D8FB6; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:51:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA28633 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:35:22 -0700 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net (relay-7.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA12627 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:29:01 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0710070; 7 Aug 97 23:24 BST Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:20:20 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics In-Reply-To: <01BCA033.1CDF3E20@ts79ip198.cadvision.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/07/97 03:20:20 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 03:51:32 PM-08/07/97 03:51:32 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 03:51:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article <01BCA033.1CDF3E20@ts79ip198.cadvision.com>, Hyndman writes >I am having a lot of "visions" (not like a psychic hotline kind of vision) about >new robotic uses, a robot that serves me drinks and cleans my house I wouldn't >mind, but face it if we had them we would all get even more lazy. That's not the >worst thing though, If an asteroid was heading for earth what would you rather >have? A: The government sending 100's of nukes to make the asteroid break up and >have millions of pieces of debris coming at earth instead. B: sending a robot to >point a laser or beam of magnified sunlight at the asteroid, causing it to heat >up and get re directed on another course. C: Having robots land on the asteroid, >use rockets to make the asteroid take a slightly different course, just enough >to get it caught in the earth's gravitational pull. So that the material in the >asteroid can be recovered and put to use( maybe a nice 5 mile wide platinum >source) Call me a pessimist, but my feeling on all this "asteroid deflection" business is that its a bit forlorn. If we did spot an asteroid heading for the earth (and it's difficult to spot even very large asteroids) then I recon that the chances of us having time to do anything about it - even with the most sophisticated technology - would be almost zero. The sort of situation that you describe would require probably months or even years advance warning, and a significant collision event itself may only occur every few million years. If I was an institution about to invest in robotics research, I would not put my money into this particular venture. -- Bob Mottram "One should not be childishly contemptuous of the www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk most insignificant animals, for there is something marvellous in all natural objects" - Aristotle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.008259D3; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:43:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28850 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:32:23 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12987 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:25:17 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA17249 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts81-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts11-03.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.66]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA15876 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708072325.TAA15876@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:05:14 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Solar Battery Recharge? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Solar Battery Recharge? PostedDate: 08/07/97 04:05:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 04:43:55 PM-08/07/97 04:43:56 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 04:43:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:56 PM 8/7/97 -0400, "Brian O. Bush" wrote: >all. > [snip] > >I am still emotionally upset with my stripped gears -- *clinched teeth* it >was a good free gearhead. but i still have the good efficient motor! > We feel your pain, brother, be strong. . . for all of us. ;-) What type of motor was the victim, and how, exactly, did you abuse it. The motor you save could be mine. ;-) Cheers, Richard. >--- >Brian O. Bush, >mailto:bbush@xtdl.com >Creative Optics, Inc. > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EC.00828484; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:45:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28853 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:33:42 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12984 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:25:12 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA17229 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts81-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts11-03.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.66]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA15831 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708072325.TAA15831@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:05:06 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 04:05:06 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 04:45:47 PM-08/07/97 04:45:49 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 04:45:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:53 PM 8/7/97 +1000, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 minutes just to >download the mail... then half of it is useless to me > >any suggestions? >Andrew > > > > That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even older than mine ? ;-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.001CD310; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:14:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA29457 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:03:09 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14691 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:17:54 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.233] (dialup14.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.233]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA17498 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:33:55 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:22:49 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/07/97 09:22:49 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 10:15:05 PM-08/07/97 10:15:06 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 10:15:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US [asteroid killed my clipboard... honest] >If I was an institution about to invest in robotics research, I would >not put my money into this particular venture. Think toys. There are alot more kids than asteroids (at least from Earth's perspective) :) Now, as for evolution... BEAM robotics as a species is evolving at a very slow rate. Take me for example, * excellent nervous network knowledge and implementations * great ability to kill gearheads The result: bad bot. Solution? For now I am going to keep trying, but once I have some major success... I plan to... * mass produce it (i mean 5-10 bots) with slight variants (MINOR mutation; by adding various sensors and such) and try to gauge which is the best. * From this one bot, I will then take and alter many large components (MAJOR mutation; motors and such--this is where the imagination comes in) to see which is the next evolutionary jump. * Take this bot to the BEAM olympics and kick some butt (unless someone else read this email and does the same, but with a larger initial population) * repeat, with a new population. This type of consistency is necessary to make noticable evolutionary strides. Been thinking of developing a way of easily modifying the nervous net with SMT plug in modules and possibly standard augmented sensors. Crazy? Yes, now if I can only get a consistent supply of parts. Thanks, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.0024B7DC; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:41:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA29526 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:29:38 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15391 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:23:11 -0500 Received: from tink (m028.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.223]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14744 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:18:57 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970808062514.00671968@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:25:14 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 11:25:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/07/97 11:41:09 PM-08/07/97 11:41:10 PM DeliveredDate: 08/07/97 11:41:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 19:05 7/08/97 -0400, you wrote: > That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. spam? Who would spam a BEAM newsgroup? Anyway, it could be moderated >How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to >get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even >older than mine ? ;-) :) actually its a 33.6k, but the server is sooooo sloooooow Andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.00282A9E; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:18:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA29561 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:07:06 -0700 Received: from ozemail.com.au (server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA15635 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:00:18 -0500 Received: from goofy (slsyd11p20.ozemail.com.au [203.108.4.108]) by ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA20502; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:31:33 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970808163220.00931840@mail.ozemail.com.au> X-Sender: daverobo@mail.ozemail.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:32:20 +1000 To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) From: David Robinson Subject: Re: voltage checking? Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <19970807.005733.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> <3.0.2.32.19970807093958.0092ba60@mail.ozemail.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: daverobo@npr.com.au From: daverobo@npr.com.au Subject: Re: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/07/97 11:32:20 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 12:18:54 AM-08/08/97 12:18:56 AM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 12:18:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Nyt, I'm not sure if my reply made it back to the BEAM mailing list - I received a bunch of returned mail. I'm sorry that I do not possess the immediate skills to answer all of your questions in this regard. However I think that a second bank of batteries is overkill. There is a robot website that describes a battery charger hidden in a plastic sunflower. The associated robot is a light seeker. The flower has a couple of foil metal leaves that the robot connects to for a battery recharge. The low voltage indicator is a relay and a variable resistor. When the battery is good the relay in energised. When the battery voltage drops below a predefined level the relay switches off and the search for a recharge begins. I cannot remember the name of the website. Is it www.Solarbotics.com? Perhaps someone else on the mailing list can direct you towards this or another suitable website. Cheers David. At 01:28 7/08/97 EDT, you wrote: >On Thu, 07 Aug 1997 09:39:58 +1000 David Robinson >writes: >>Nyt, >>Please be aware that if your battery is going flat, the comparitor may >>not respond as expected if its supply voltage (ie, that same battery) >>is not up to specification. >>This is not to say that you should avoid using a comparitor, >>but just to be cautious. >>Cheers >>David. > >what if i had it run off a different battery? like two banks of batteries >with a comparitor used to check the opposette bank? i would have to make >sure the bot would only draw off one bank at a time.. or am i just >getting too complex? i have a way of doing that... > >ok how much does it take to run a comparitor? i mean can i run off like a >watch battery or something like that? or even a cap with a very slow >discharge? tho it would prolly be too big to be worth while (guessing by >the size of some of the caps ive seen with a slow enough discharge that i >assume it would need) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.002ECBD7; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:30:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29664 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:19:05 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA16060 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:08:41 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts17ip126.cadvision.com [207.228.68.126]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id CAA171442; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:00:11 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970808020649.0075addc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 02:06:49 -0600 To: David Robinson , nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: voltage checking? Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970808163220.00931840@mail.ozemail.com.au> References: <19970807.005733.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> <19970801.142852.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> <3.0.2.32.19970807093958.0092ba60@mail.ozemail.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: voltage checking? PostedDate: 08/08/97 01:06:49 AM SendTo: daverobo@npr.com.au,nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 01:30:41 AM-08/08/97 01:30:42 AM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 01:30:42 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:32 PM 8/8/1997 +1000, David Robinson wrote: >There is a robot website that describes a battery charger hidden in a >plastic sunflower. The associated robot is a light seeker. The flower >has a couple of foil metal leaves that the robot connects to for a >battery recharge. The low voltage indicator is a relay and a variable >resistor. When the battery is good the relay in energised. When the >battery voltage drops below a predefined level the relay switches off >and the search for a recharge begins. It's at JCM Electronic's website: http://www.nucleus.com/~cybug -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.0062A289; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:57:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00979 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:45:55 -0700 From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay.interserv.com (relay.interserv.com [165.121.2.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA19186 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:25:26 -0500 Received: from 161.142.216.241 (j3.brf61.jaring.my) by relay.interserv.com with SMTP id AA07671 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for beam@webconn.com); Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:24:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:24:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199708081724.AA07671@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup To: Andrew Vaughan , beam@webconn.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/08/97 10:24:08 AM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 10:57:27 AM-08/08/97 10:57:28 AM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 10:57:28 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dear Andrew, I don't thank is your problem with your computer or modem. Maybe is your local Internet Service Provided (IPS). The main problem is they DNS Domain Name Server is overloading so it is slow. You could contact your local IPS to ask about the problem. I am working as a IPS consultant at my own country. Regards, Tsang On Fri, 08 Aug 1997, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >At 19:05 7/08/97 -0400, you wrote: > >> That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. > >spam? Who would spam a BEAM newsgroup? Anyway, it could be moderated > >>How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to >>get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even >>older than mine ? ;-) > >:) actually its a 33.6k, but the server is sooooo sloooooow >Andrew > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.006A238E; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:19:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01310 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:07:53 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19781 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:46:37 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OLP15239; Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:45:48 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup Message-ID: <19970808.141439.7807.8.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970808062514.00671968@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-14 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:45:48 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/08/97 11:45:48 AM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 12:19:27 PM-08/08/97 12:19:27 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 12:19:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:25:14 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >At 19:05 7/08/97 -0400, you wrote: >> That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. >spam? Who would spam a BEAM newsgroup? Anyway, it could be moderated anyone with a program that spams all groups with the same msg... >>How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to >>get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even >>older than mine ? ;-) >:) actually its a 33.6k, but the server is sooooo sloooooow >Andrew yuck.. perhaps a free email accout on its own would be a good idea then? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.006B1925; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:29:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01359 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:18:14 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19783 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:47:00 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id OLQ15239; Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:45:48 EDT To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics Message-ID: <19970808.141439.7807.9.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,8-9,13-14,16-17,20 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:45:48 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/08/97 11:45:48 AM SendTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 12:30:00 PM-08/08/97 12:30:01 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 12:30:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:20:20 +0100 Bob Mottram writes: >In article <01BCA033.1CDF3E20@ts79ip198.cadvision.com>, Hyndman > writes >Call me a pessimist, but my feeling on all this "asteroid >deflection" business is that its a bit forlorn. If we did spot an >asteroid heading for the earth (and it's difficult to spot even >very large asteroids) then I recon that the chances of us having >time to do anything about it - even with the most sophisticated >technology - would be almost zero. in a Sky & Telescope issue (cant remember the issue but it has a big astroid on the cover) it explained that there would be one coming in *thinks* 2033 or something aproximating this.. it is supposed to dip inside of the moon's orbit.. >If I was an institution about to invest in robotics research, I >would not put my money into this particular venture. i would be much happier with a projected weapon that could have more then one shot where a rocket or something of simmilar design it more of a hit or miss option... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.006E91E2; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:07:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01478 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:56:13 -0700 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net (punt-1c.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.136]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20275 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:42:59 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1418090; 8 Aug 97 20:35 BST Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:49:09 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970807075331.0069f984@ix.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/07/97 03:49:09 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 01:07:46 PM-08/08/97 01:07:48 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 01:07:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article <1.5.4.32.19970807075331.0069f984@ix.net.au>, Andrew Vaughan writes >how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 minutes just to >download the mail... then half of it is useless to me Just in case it is of interest to anyone, I've got my software configured so that it treats the BEAM email list as a newsgroup and automatically separates it from the rest of my mail. The software is called Turnpike and came free from my IS provider. 15 minutes sounds like a long wait. It doesn't usually take me anything like that amount of time unless I'm connected at a very slow baud rate. -- Bob Mottram "One should not be childishly contemptuous of the www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk most insignificant animals, for there is something marvellous in all natural objects" - Aristotle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564ED.00707711; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:28:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA01502 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:16:54 -0700 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net (relay-15.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20356 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:51:18 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0507158; 8 Aug 97 20:35 BST Message-ID: <1tEIwVAs5k6zEwAp@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:38:36 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970805122941.00caca80@cadvision.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/07/97 03:38:36 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 01:28:32 PM-08/08/97 01:28:33 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 01:28:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article <3.0.1.32.19970805122941.00caca80@cadvision.com>, Dave Hrynkiw writes >MIT looks like it's latching onto BEAM Philosophy: > >http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/mars-rovers/rockettes.html > >Kinda looks like some of the Solarollers we've been building for...what? 4 >years now? I'm sure there's a job waiting for you at MIT, Dave :) -- Bob Mottram "One should not be childishly contemptuous of the www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk most insignificant animals, for there is something marvellous in all natural objects" - Aristotle $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.000101F9; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:11:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02356 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:59:32 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21780 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:35:46 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA23566 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts29-09.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts29-09.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.232]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA24088 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708082336.TAA24088@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 19:15:33 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/08/97 04:15:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 05:11:11 PM-08/08/97 05:11:12 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 05:11:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:38 PM 8/7/97 +0100, Bob Mottram wrote: >In article <3.0.1.32.19970805122941.00caca80@cadvision.com>, Dave >Hrynkiw writes >>MIT looks like it's latching onto BEAM Philosophy: >> >>http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/mars-rovers/rockettes.html >> >>Kinda looks like some of the Solarollers we've been building for...what? 4 >>years now? > >I'm sure there's a job waiting for you at MIT, Dave :) > > Actually, Rod Brooks has been pestering Dave for a job for months now. Dave keeps saying "processor, shmoe-cessor!" :-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0001090C; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:11:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02359 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:59:59 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21777 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:35:43 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA23562 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts29-09.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts29-09.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.232]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA24076 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708082336.TAA24076@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 19:15:30 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/08/97 04:15:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 05:11:21 PM-08/08/97 05:11:22 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 05:11:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:22 AM 8/8/97 -0400, bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) wrote: > >[asteroid killed my clipboard... honest] > Yup, I know, dog ate my homework, too. [snip Brian's description of BEAM-evolution] > * Take this bot to the BEAM olympics and kick some butt (unless someone >else read this email and does the same, but with a larger initial >population) It is _at the event_ that the mutation occurs. You can not imagine the richness of the robo-sphere at these things. Well, couldn't, maybe you have a better imagination. When you see the things that others bring it will _keep you awake_ with new ideas running wild. Your brain does the mutating, when you go home to build you do the Darwinian survivalism. Every design that I have seen at the BEAM meetings has been celebrated for one reason or another. Really! >Been thinking of developing a way of easily modifying the nervous net with >SMT plug in modules and possibly standard augmented sensors. > >Crazy? Yes, now if I can only get a consistent supply of parts. Crazy, NO! I like. How about defining a standard: SolarRollerBus (TM) Then we can say: "Hey Brian, that's a cool 'roller body, how does it go with my FLED-engine?" etc. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0006C9BC; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:14:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02453 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:02:42 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22314 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:38:37 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts30ip70.cadvision.com [207.228.70.70]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA287678; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:34:21 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970808183413.00b80ef8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:34:13 -0600 To: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... In-Reply-To: <199708082336.TAA24088@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/08/97 05:34:13 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 06:14:19 PM-08/08/97 06:14:20 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 06:14:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:15 PM 8/8/1997 -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Actually, Rod Brooks has been pestering Dave for a >job for months now. Dave keeps saying "processor, >shmoe-cessor!" :-) Bah. He simple refuses to let me use COG as a doorstop... Some people's egos...;> -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0007AC52; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:23:48 -0700 Received: from mail1.noc.netcom.net (mail1.noc.netcom.net [204.31.1.150]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02473 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:12:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail1.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04329 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22312 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:38:26 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts30ip70.cadvision.com [207.228.70.70]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA08906; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:34:22 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970808184209.00b804ac@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:42:09 -0600 To: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/08/97 05:42:09 PM SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 06:23:51 PM-08/08/97 06:23:52 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 06:23:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:22 AM 8/8/1997 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: > * mass produce it (i mean 5-10 bots) with slight variants (MINOR >mutation; by adding various sensors and such) and try to gauge which is the >best. Not a bad approach, but time-intensive. Mark T's BEAMants and my own flock o' Mini(Richard)Balls are examples. I can't speak for Mark, but the variations in sensor tech and layout seem to speak volumes in the amount he learned about effective sensor layout. As for my Miniball flock (numbered over 14 at one point), I learned optimal techniques in mechanical interfaces to round spheres. Well, ok, so it ain't as nearly important as sensor layout, but I feel that it was an excellent exercise. If you don't mind investing your resources into "N" number of the same variation, by all means go ahead. (In other words, ignore everything Richard sez ;> Honestly tho...I've got great *nightmarish* concepts floating 'round my noggin after each of the BEAM meetings. Just need time to jump on them now. There definitely is a place for a blend of the "flock 'o _____" and brainstormed concepts. The Photopopper is a good example of our version of Mark's concepts that took several iterations to come about into a solid form. Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.000F8FCE; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:49:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02562 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:38:39 -0700 From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay.interserv.com (relay.interserv.com [165.121.2.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA22846 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:40:08 -0500 Received: from 161.142.2.181 (j7.brf7.jaring.my) by relay.interserv.com with SMTP id AA15570 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for beam@webconn.com); Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:38:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:38:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199708090138.AA15570@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup To: Andrew Vaughan , beam@webconn.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/08/97 06:38:55 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 07:50:08 PM-08/08/97 07:50:08 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 07:50:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Dear Andrew, > >I don't thank is your problem with your computer or modem. Maybe is your local >Internet Service Provided (IPS). The main problem is they DNS Domain Name Server >is overloading so it is slow. You could contact your local IPS to ask about the >problem. > >I am working as a IPS consultant at my own country. > >Regards, >Tsang > >On Fri, 08 Aug 1997, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >>At 19:05 7/08/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>> That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. >> >>spam? Who would spam a BEAM newsgroup? Anyway, it could be moderated >> >>>How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to >>>get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even >>>older than mine ? ;-) >> >>:) actually its a 33.6k, but the server is sooooo sloooooow >>Andrew >> >> >> >> $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0014578A; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:42:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02599 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:30:34 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23233 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:56:22 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA04105 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts47-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts47-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.163]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA28271 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708090256.WAA28271@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:36:06 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: [Admin] Reposting SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: [Admin] Reposting PostedDate: 08/08/97 07:36:06 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 08:42:21 PM-08/08/97 08:42:22 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 08:42:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Everybody; Just a reminder: It is very unlikley that you will need to repost to the BEAM List at beam@webonn.com. We all get "bounces" from "Mail Delivery Subsystem" and "Mail Administrator" when we post to the list, but these 'bounces' are from specific addresses, not from the list server itself. Here's what happens: - I send a post to the list. - The list server sends to everyone subscribed. - Some of those 300 (!) addresses are bad for one reason or another. - I get some error messages for those specific addresses. - The remaining (let's say 295) get my post. Now, I might repost, but that sends the same post to 295 people that already have it. Chances are that the same five bad adresses will still be bad, so I'll get the same error messages back. On the other hand, if my post is something that I think _really_ interests the five bad addresses, I can find those addresses in the error messages, and e-mail directly to them. That way every body gets the message once. Another situation (one that is of particular interest to me) is when I think that I might have missed a message or two. Or if I want to re-read a message from long-ago that I haven't saved. Solution? The archives. Every post to the BEAM List goes into the archives. See Mark's site for details: BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html Tha last thing to remember, is that all subscribe and unsubscribe messages go to : beam-request@webconn.com not, that is **NOT** to the regular list address. If you send your message to the wrong place, it will not get processed as promptly. . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0024B50C; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:40:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA02703 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 23:29:29 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24783 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:57:44 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BMV15239; Sat, 09 Aug 1997 01:57:37 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: errors.. Message-ID: <19970809.012630.7807.7.nytwulf@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 01:57:37 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: errors.. PostedDate: 08/08/97 10:57:37 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/08/97 11:41:07 PM-08/08/97 11:41:08 PM DeliveredDate: 08/08/97 11:41:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US i keep getting, and im sure everyone is getting errors from sending mail to the mailing list.. is it possible to remove the troubled addresses or do they actualy get the msg? and is there a way to not bounce these error msgs around? more then half of my email coming in are these msgs.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0028CA2A; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:25:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA02744 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:13:50 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25268 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 01:54:34 -0500 Received: from tink (m015.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.236]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28075 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:50:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970809065642.0069e0a0@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 16:56:42 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/08/97 11:56:42 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:25:41 AM-08/09/97 12:25:42 AM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:25:42 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 00:22 8/08/97 -0400, you wrote: >Now, as for evolution... BEAM robotics as a species is evolving at a very >slow rate. Take me for example, > > * excellent nervous network knowledge and implementations > * great ability to kill gearheads > >The result: bad bot. Solution? For now I am going to keep trying, but once >I have some major success... I plan to... > > * mass produce it (i mean 5-10 bots) with slight variants (MINOR >mutation; by adding various sensors and such) and try to gauge which is the >best. > > * From this one bot, I will then take and alter many large components >(MAJOR mutation; motors and such--this is where the imagination comes in) >to see which is the next evolutionary jump. > > * Take this bot to the BEAM olympics and kick some butt (unless someone >else read this email and does the same, but with a larger initial >population) > > * repeat, with a new population. > >This type of consistency is necessary to make noticable evolutionary strides. > I distinctly remember watching something on the discovery channel where they had set up a program to "evolve" artificial lifeforms. They gave this program the instruction to evolve on movement capabilities. It started out with a lifeform consisting of two blocks and a crude nervous system. It then reproduced introducing random mutations into the mix. The best from about 100 was then selected and the evolution process started again. My point is, couldn't this technology be used for BEAM projects? Sure, it wouldn't be as much fun, but you'd get some quick evolution anyway, just a thought Andrew $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.003B8AF1; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 03:50:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA02809 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 03:39:02 -0700 Received: from wavefront.wavefront.com (ns.wavefront.com [204.73.244.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA26317 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:22:45 -0500 Received: from raphael.ddb.com by wavefront.wavefront.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1.R931202) id FAA06154; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:23:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199708091023.FAA06154@wavefront.wavefront.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Raphael Carter" Organization: Dept. of Exolinguistics and Misanthropology To: beam@webconn.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:24:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: feeler wire Reply-to: raphael@wavefront.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19970809065642.0069e0a0@ix.net.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) SMTPOriginator: raphael@wavefront.com From: raphael@wavefront.com Subject: feeler wire PostedDate: 08/09/97 03:24:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: raphael@wavefront.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 03:50:22 AM-08/09/97 03:50:24 AM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 03:50:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US What kind of wire works well for photovore feelers? I tried using wire from an old spiral-bound notebook, and the feeler works fine as a switch, but it's a bit too stiff -- the robot often can't push it free of the obstacle. Plain copper hookup wire seems too soft. -- Raphael $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.004DA000; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:07:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02918 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 06:56:13 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA27301 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:40:37 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.222] (dialup03.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.222]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23309 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:56:45 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:45:31 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/09/97 06:45:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 07:08:02 AM-08/09/97 07:08:03 AM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 07:08:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US [evolution deletia] >I distinctly remember watching something on the discovery channel where they >had set up a program to "evolve" artificial lifeforms. They gave this >program the instruction to evolve on movement capabilities. It started out >with a lifeform consisting of two blocks and a crude nervous system. It then >reproduced introducing random mutations into the mix. The best from about >100 was then selected and the evolution process started again. >My point is, couldn't this technology be used for BEAM projects? Sure, it >wouldn't be as much fun, but you'd get some quick evolution I have been thinking of that too! Except one problem, your models become very fancy at a quick rate, say two or three generations.... might end up with something that would never work to well in the real world. Consistent evaluation of a hypothetical model is necessary (which means build that bot). Of course another approach would be reconfigurable hardware (evolveHW) with PLA chips on the plug in modules for the bot. However, as Tilden advocates, the tek in these machines is not only in the nervous networks, but the bodies as well. Cheers, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0053A46F; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:13:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA02949 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:01:57 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27725 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:46:12 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA08313 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts14-06.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts14-06.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.21]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA06897 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708091446.KAA06897@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:25:44 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) PostedDate: 08/09/97 07:25:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 08:13:39 AM-08/09/97 08:13:40 AM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 08:13:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:07 AM 8/9/97 -0500, Dennlill wrote: [snip] >Uh Oh, sounds like the wheels of change are suddenly afoot! SolarRollerBus >(TM)? >Hum it's got ring to it. Or BotBus(TM) or S.B.P.M (Standard, Beam, Plugin >Module) >Then you would also need one for Walkers. wow you guy's are on the verge of >a great discovery. > >Dennlill > > > Okay now, _one_ "(TM)" in a post is alright, but you've gone completely mad. . . The above looks like something out of the "Windows License Agreement" (TM) (Reg. US Pat. Off.) (do not fold spindle or mutilate) (Eat at Joe's) :-) This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around for a while. Seems trivial for the SolarRoller: - Use a single in-line header, with the socket (female) on the electronics side. - Label and number the pins like this: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd Solar Cap Motor "Kill Cell switch" - Build all your SolarRollers with this socket on the PCB. - Attach your motors etc with the proper two-pin plugs. - When you want to swap engines / bodies, just "Plug 'n Play" (TM) ;-) Reality check time. What do you think? Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.00692D25; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:08:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03064 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:57:08 -0700 From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay.interserv.com (relay.interserv.com [165.121.2.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28460 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:48:02 -0500 Received: from 161.142.216.234 (j12.brf62.jaring.my) by relay.interserv.com with SMTP id AA25423 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for Beam@webconn.com); Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:46:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:46:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199708091646.AA25423@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Speed Control To: Beam@webconn.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/09/97 09:46:55 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:08:52 PM-08/09/97 12:08:52 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:08:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi everyone, Question- Do anyone have any idea to control the speed of the DC motor about 10-15rpm. The motor is a mini motor running 3 volt. We could find in the toy DC motor. I would be grateful if anyone could help me. Thanks, Tsang $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.00696375; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03067 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:59:28 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00336 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:41:34 -0500 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10750 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:19:00 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip62.cadvision.com [207.228.74.62]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA144940; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:09:21 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970809121037.00b947b0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:10:37 -0600 To: raphael@wavefront.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: feeler wire In-Reply-To: <199708091023.FAA06154@wavefront.wavefront.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970809065642.0069e0a0@ix.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: feeler wire PostedDate: 08/09/97 11:10:37 AM SendTo: raphael@wavefront.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:11:15 PM-08/09/97 12:11:16 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:11:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:24 AM 8/9/1997 -0500, Raphael Carter wrote: >What kind of wire works well for photovore feelers? I tried using >wire from an old spiral-bound notebook, and the feeler works fine as >a switch, but it's a bit too stiff -- the robot often can't push it >free of the obstacle. Plain copper hookup wire seems too soft. Use hobby-shop piano wire of the smallest gauge you can find. Use thicker gauges for walkers and the like. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.00696695; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03072 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:59:55 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00342 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:41:36 -0500 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA10566 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:20:06 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.244] (dialup25.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.244]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27090 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:26:14 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:14:52 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: NvNetBus SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: NvNetBus PostedDate: 08/09/97 10:14:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:11:15 PM-08/09/97 12:11:16 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:11:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Richard, (and others) The SolarRollerBus (tm) could also serve as a NvNetBus (tm). However, we would need to add sensors and another motor connection. One of the goals (i believe) is developing new BioMech construction techniques... also includes the electro-mech -- since we usually end up using the electronics for things never intended by the manufacturer. I have been toying with the idea of plug-in modules for a while now. Still prototyping. Watch this space for details... Cheers, Brian > This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around >for a while. Seems trivial for the SolarRoller: > >- Use a single in-line header, with the socket (female) > on the electronics side. >- Label and number the pins like this: > 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 > + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd > Solar Cap Motor "Kill > Cell switch" >- Build all your SolarRollers with this socket on the PCB. >- Attach your motors etc with the proper two-pin plugs. >- When you want to swap engines / bodies, just "Plug 'n Play" (TM) ;-) --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.006969F8; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03070 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:59:43 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00340 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:41:35 -0500 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10755 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:19:01 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip62.cadvision.com [207.228.74.62]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA46912; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:09:23 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970809121342.00b9504c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:13:42 -0600 To: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) In-Reply-To: <199708091446.KAA06897@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) PostedDate: 08/09/97 11:13:42 AM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:11:35 PM-08/09/97 12:11:36 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:11:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:25 AM 8/9/1997 -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around >for a while. Seems trivial for the SolarRoller: > >- Use a single in-line header, with the socket (female) > on the electronics side. >- Label and number the pins like this: > 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 > + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd + Gnd > Solar Cap Motor "Kill > Cell switch" >- Build all your SolarRollers with this socket on the PCB. >- Attach your motors etc with the proper two-pin plugs. >- When you want to swap engines / bodies, just "Plug 'n Play" (TM) ;-) Sounds quite handy for comparing alternate electronics on the same body. Ideal for circuit efficiency comparisons. After all, theoretical efficiency simply isn't the same as real-world efficiency (ie: Iovine Solarengine vs FLED Solarengine). Sooo Richard - when you gonna design us up a standard PCB to use ;> -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.00696E8B; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:11:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03076 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:00:14 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00338 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:41:35 -0500 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10761 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:19:07 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip62.cadvision.com [207.228.74.62]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA117350; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:09:26 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970809121707.00b93284@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:17:07 -0600 To: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my, Beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Speed Control In-Reply-To: <199708091646.AA25423@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/09/97 11:17:07 AM SendTo: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:11:36 PM-08/09/97 12:11:37 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:11:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:46 AM 8/9/1997 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: >Question- Do anyone have any idea to control the speed of the DC motor about >10-15rpm. The motor is a mini motor running 3 volt. We could find in the toy DC >motor. I would be grateful if anyone could help me. Well, it depends what you want to do. I take it this is for a battery-powered application? Did you want more torque (using a gear-down system), or to simple slow the motor speed down by itself? My first suggestion would be to use a 555 to setup a PWM (Pulse-width-modulated) signal to the transistor powering the motor. Vary the duty cycle until you get about what you want. Neat thing about PWM is that you can vary the speed, but the torque is *much* higher than simply using a power-dropping resistor. Good luck, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.006DC8BD; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:59:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03093 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:47:42 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01062 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:32:39 -0500 Received: from ts31ip98.cadvision.com (ts31ip98.cadvision.com [207.228.70.98]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA148434 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:27:57 -0600 Received: by ts31ip98.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA4C7.8E859EA0@ts31ip98.cadvision.com>; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:24:25 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCA4C7.8E859EA0@ts31ip98.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Be in sacramento in one year to this date Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:24:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Be in sacramento in one year to this date PostedDate: 08/09/97 12:24:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 12:59:13 PM-08/09/97 12:59:13 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 12:59:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US A part of me wants to see robot wars very bad, and another part of me feels sorry for all the electronics gone to waste. I was this [] close to getting tickets, next year I won't be so lucky because I've followed the destructive side of me, I'm going to try to compete there next year. My AUV is on hold until some sonar experts show up , somewhere, but the broken chain saw in my basement has shown me the light. When I get part of it built, I think a few people will be scared to go near it. For the people that don't want to risk their lives seeing it, I'll take some pictures. The real test will be next year, may the sparks fly. Solar projects are slowed down because my two new solar cell "pads" have come off, and when I need my conductive ink it disappears. Dave Hrynkiw's photo-popper is going to have a small face lift, I'm adding a 10 F cap to replace the old one But I'm feeling like "There goes 60 bucks". Besides being on a strict diet of less thinking more building, nothing much has really changed. I will do the unthinkable over and over, when people ask why, I smile and say "I am CANADIAN" Devin "The key to immortality is making a life worth remembering" $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.006FD459; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:21:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA03096 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:09:50 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01398 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:03:56 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03849; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:03:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA15806; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708092003.OAA15806@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: errors.. To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <19970809.012630.7807.7.nytwulf@juno.com> from "Nyt wulf" at Aug 09, 1997 01:57:37 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: errors.. PostedDate: 08/09/97 01:03:49 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 01:21:40 PM-08/09/97 01:21:41 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 01:21:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > i keep getting, and im sure everyone is getting errors from sending mail > to the mailing list.. is it possible to remove the troubled addresses or > do they actualy get the msg? and is there a way to not bounce these error > msgs around? more then half of my email coming in are these msgs.. > When you get _errors_ send them to beam-request@webconn.com I have asked for a filter from my provider to have all error messages go directly to me rather than to the 'sender'. We will get this done.. The problem with a lot of the _warning_ that you get is because of bad servers i.e. PC's running MicroJunk NT or linux (I hate to say). They cannot seem to handle realtime networks.. Any concerns like this should _only_ go to beam-request@webconn.com there are over 300 people on the list. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.00758739; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:23:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA03126 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:12:23 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01968 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:10:12 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RES09863; Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:08 EDT To: crs0274@inforamp.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) Message-ID: <19970809.163727.7639.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199708091446.KAA06897@inforamp.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-10,14 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:08 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) PostedDate: 08/09/97 02:08:08 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 02:23:55 PM-08/09/97 02:23:56 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 02:23:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:25:44 -0400 Richard Weait writes: > Okay now, _one_ "(TM)" in a post is alright, but you've >gone completely mad. . . The above looks like something dont have to be insane to work here but it helps.. =] > This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around >for a while. > Reality check time. What do you think? i like the idea.. makes things much easier to move around in the field.. maybe there's a way to make each unit modular to mix and match parts.. of course making a standard would be up to the individual if he/she wants to mix and match with others.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0075887E; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:23:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA03129 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:12:24 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01972 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:10:35 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id REQ09863; Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:07 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics Message-ID: <19970809.163727.7639.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970809065642.0069e0a0@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,7-8,10-11,14 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:07 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/09/97 02:08:07 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 02:23:55 PM-08/09/97 02:23:56 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 02:23:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 16:56:42 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >I distinctly remember watching something on the discovery channel >where they had set up a program to "evolve" artificial lifeforms. i remember hearing about this.. wasnt one set up so that it would grow taller and taller till it fell over then it would shrink up into the new found location? lil odd but it worked.. nature isnt the only think that can be creative through ordered chaos.. =] >My point is, couldn't this technology be used for BEAM projects? >Sure, it wouldn't be as much fun, but you'd get some quick >evolution im wondering if someone can think of all the possibilities in a world to create a working virtual environment.. what kind of unforseen things can happen? well that's why you build them.. eh? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EE.0075887B; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:23:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA03123 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:12:17 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01966 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:10:08 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id REP09863; Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:07 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup Message-ID: <19970809.163727.7639.0.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970809065641.0069a63c@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-6,8-9,11 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:08:07 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/09/97 02:08:07 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 02:23:55 PM-08/09/97 02:23:56 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 02:23:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 16:56:41 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >>anyone with a program that spams all groups with the same msg... >yeah, but why would they bother? Anyway, we could set it up so >that you post the message to the mailing list which then forwards >it to the newsgroup well they would bother because that is what the program does.. posts to all groups at once.. i like that idea.. is there a way so that only certain addresses can post to a news group? like the ones from the mailing list? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.0007DDF9; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:25:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03257 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:14:25 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03359 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:06:44 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11344; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:09:03 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA20714; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:59:30 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA26343; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:06:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:59:26 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Nyt wulf cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: errors.. In-Reply-To: <19970809.012630.7807.7.nytwulf@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: errors.. PostedDate: 08/09/97 05:59:26 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 06:26:06 PM-08/09/97 06:26:07 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 06:26:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Nyt wulf wrote: > i keep getting, and im sure everyone is getting errors from sending mail > to the mailing list.. is it possible to remove the troubled addresses or > do they actualy get the msg? and is there a way to not bounce these error > msgs around? more then half of my email coming in are these msgs.. > Hey, welcome to the club! If they don't seem to be getting messages for a while, they can always go to the archives and see if they're missing anything. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.000BBDE0; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:08:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03286 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:56:34 -0700 From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay.interserv.com (relay.interserv.com [165.121.2.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03640 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:51:35 -0500 Received: from 161.142.2.213 (j7.brf5.jaring.my) by relay.interserv.com with SMTP id AA00857 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for Beam@webconn.com); Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:50:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:50:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199708100150.AA00857@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Speed Control To: Dave Hrynkiw , nytwulf@juno.com, Beam@webconn.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/09/97 06:50:22 PM SendTo: dave@solarbotics.com,nytwulf@juno.com,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 07:08:17 PM-08/09/97 07:08:18 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 07:08:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Dave & Everyone, Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my insect rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was great! I will perfer to run on the gear down box. Problem I couldn't find any gear down box running on 10-15rpm. Can you direct me to find this gear down box? It would be helpful. Thanks, Tsang On Sat, 09 Aug 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: >At 09:46 AM 8/9/1997 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: >>Question- Do anyone have any idea to control the speed of the DC motor about >>10-15rpm. The motor is a mini motor running 3 volt. We could find in the >toy DC >>motor. I would be grateful if anyone could help me. > >Well, it depends what you want to do. I take it this is for a >battery-powered application? Did you want more torque (using a gear-down >system), or to simple slow the motor speed down by itself? > >My first suggestion would be to use a 555 to setup a PWM >(Pulse-width-modulated) signal to the transistor powering the motor. Vary >the duty cycle until you get about what you want. Neat thing about PWM is >that you can vary the speed, but the torque is *much* higher than simply >using a power-dropping resistor. > >Good luck, >Dave >-- >"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, >that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only >2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com >Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com > > >. > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.0012F828; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:27:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03335 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:15:45 -0700 From: probey@mail.kamloops.net Received: from okjunc.junction.net (okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04110 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:07:58 -0500 Received: from kamloops-08.kamloops.net (kamloops-08.kamloops.net [206.87.120.136]) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA32258 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:07:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970809193404.2237feda@mail.kamloops.net> X-Sender: probey@mail.kamloops.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 19:34:04 To: beam@webconn.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: probey@mail.kamloops.net From: probey@mail.kamloops.net PostedDate: 08/09/97 12:34:04 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 08:27:22 PM-08/09/97 08:27:23 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 08:27:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Unsubscribe me!!!! hAhAhAhAhA(weird laughter?) (sorry, i couldn't resist) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.002069D1; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:54:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA03418 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:42:22 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04829 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:27:50 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts62ip210.cadvision.com [207.228.74.210]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id XAA210002; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:22:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 23:27:53 -0600 To: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my, nytwulf@juno.com, Beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Speed Control In-Reply-To: <199708100150.AA00857@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/09/97 10:27:53 PM SendTo: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my,nytwulf@juno.com,Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 10:54:09 PM-08/09/97 10:54:10 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 10:54:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:50 PM 8/9/1997 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: >I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was great! Actually, you can. I've done it. Towards the lower end of the voltage scale (~1.5V) the time intervals shorten (too bad they didn't lengthen - oh well...). But on the whole, they work drawing about 50uA. If you do, use the Samsung for the lowest current draw (KS555). I tested about 6 variaties, and Samsungs was the lowest power draw. >I will perfer to run on the gear down box. Problem I couldn't find any gear down >box running on 10-15rpm. Can you direct me to find this gear down box? It would >be helpful. Ah... here's another great lead in for the OTU experience (Oven Timer Unit). For those not in the know, it's the use of enclosed induction-pole timer units as gearing systems. I've promised a few of you I'd put it up on the website, and I *will*. Just have some important "To-Do's" to get out of the way first. Keep an eye on the website this next week... Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.0023F7FF; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:32:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03437 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:21:26 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05214 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:20:04 -0500 Received: from tink (m043.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.208]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08491 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:15:48 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970810062209.006afad4@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:22:09 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/09/97 11:22:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 11:32:56 PM-08/09/97 11:32:57 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 11:32:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 17:08 9/08/97 EDT, you wrote: >On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 16:56:42 +1000 Andrew Vaughan >writes: >>I distinctly remember watching something on the discovery channel >>where they had set up a program to "evolve" artificial lifeforms. >i remember hearing about this.. wasnt one set up so that it would grow >taller and taller till it fell over then it would shrink up into the new >found location? lil odd but it worked.. nature isnt the only think that >can be creative through ordered chaos.. =] well, the only aim was for it to move, and falling (more rolling) fulfilled that requirement so it survived! :) isn't chaos great! :) > >>My point is, couldn't this technology be used for BEAM projects? >Sure, >it wouldn't be as much fun, but you'd get some quick >evolution > >im wondering if someone can think of all the possibilities in a world to >create a working virtual environment.. what kind of unforseen things can >happen? well that's why you build them.. eh? that reminds me! Anybody seen the movie "Evolver"? BEAM gone mad! :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.0023F9F3; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:32:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA03435 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:21:14 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05213 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:20:02 -0500 Received: from tink (m043.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.208]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08489 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:15:45 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970810062203.006ae26c@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:22:03 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/09/97 11:22:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/09/97 11:33:06 PM-08/09/97 11:33:07 PM DeliveredDate: 08/09/97 11:33:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 18:50 9/08/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Dave & Everyone, > >Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my insect >rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was great! the bipolar version (ne555) operates from between 4.5 and 16V, but the CMOS version (tlc555) works from between 2 and 18V Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564EF.002AC48B; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:47:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA03471 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:35:29 -0700 From: Dhendry@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05906 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 02:35:17 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id DAA29823; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 03:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 03:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970810033512_-802283417@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: raphael@wavefront.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: feeler wire SMTPOriginator: Dhendry@aol.com From: Dhendry@aol.com Subject: Re: feeler wire PostedDate: 08/10/97 12:35:13 AM SendTo: raphael@wavefront.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/10/97 12:47:16 AM-08/10/97 12:47:17 AM DeliveredDate: 08/10/97 12:47:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 8/9/97 3:37:25 AM, raphael@wavefront.com (Raphael Carter) wrote: <> Use piano wire. You can get it in most hardware stores (in various gauges). Some piano wire is hard to solder. Use an acid flux, or make the electrical connection by mechanical means. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0057885E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:56:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04912 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:50:41 -0700 From: dwhall@ksu.edu Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16985 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:34:07 -0500 Received: from abc (dwhall@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id JAA21769 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:33:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: by abc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id JAA28781; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:33:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199708111433.JAA28781@abc> Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal To: beam@webconn.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:33:49 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970809121342.00b9504c@cadvision.com> from "Dave Hrynkiw" at Aug 9, 97 12:13:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dwhall@ksu.edu From: dwhall@ksu.edu Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/11/97 07:33:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 08:56:12 AM-08/11/97 08:56:14 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 08:56:14 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US + +At 10:25 AM 8/9/1997 -0400, Richard Weait wrote: +> This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around +>for a while. Seems trivial for the SolarRoller: ... +>- When you want to swap engines / bodies, just "Plug 'n Play" (TM) ;-) + +Sounds quite handy for comparing alternate electronics on the same body. +Ideal for circuit efficiency comparisons. After all, theoretical efficiency Yes, a bus is good for modularization, which is good for PNP & comparisons as Richard and Dave mention above, but I'd tak exception to Brian's idea of the NvNet bus. The first and foremost principle in BEAM is Biology. One thing I know about biology is not to bundle all your nervous tissue in one place. (the human hand has two major bundles so that at least 1/2 of it will work if the other bundle is damaged)(the brain has a left and right half that can compensate for the other)(etc). Bus idea is good for rollers, but not Nv-based bugs. Unless you called the bus a bundle and made a redundant bundle somewhere. But this can affect efficiency. just my opinion. !!Dean $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0057948A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:56:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04861 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:37:50 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16688 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:47:39 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06048 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708111347.JAA06048@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp47.buffnet.net(205.246.19.154) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma019264; Mon, 11 Aug 97 09:46:01 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Speed control with regulator. Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:39:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Speed control with regulator. PostedDate: 08/11/97 07:39:50 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 08:56:56 AM-08/11/97 08:56:58 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 08:56:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Because of the mini dc motor running on 3Vdc. I use 2 solar cell > generating 7.2V step down the voltage will a 7805 regulator to 5V power > the NE555 chip and the output of the NE555 5V step down again with zener > diode 2.7V or 3.3V to run the mini DC motor. Do you think this work? I think it would work, but In my limited experince the 7805 regulator wastes power at the ground (the center) pin. Everything over 5 volts goes back to ground, which may not be such a problem but since thats about 2.2 volts (hint hint) you may be able to find a way to make use of it. Another diode or something to up it about a volt? Or mabey get a adjustable regulator so that the output is about five mabey four volts (somehting that would still work with the 555) and then use the ground (wasted energy) to drive the motor using a transitor? An Idea like that might work. I just thought that up on the spot, and wow, I'm rather proud of myself. Dennison $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0057F22E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:00:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04506 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:30:00 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA14878 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:09:33 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wxpXe-0005yf-00; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:09:30 -0400 Received: from ts5-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts76-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.147]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id EAA06762 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708110809.EAA06762@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:49:11 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: *cough*Dave made a mistake SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: *cough*Dave made a mistake PostedDate: 08/11/97 12:49:11 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:00:48 AM-08/11/97 09:00:52 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:00:52 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dave?!?!? A mistake ?!?!?!? Can't be; he's infallible; he told me that himself! At 01:22 PM 8/10/97 -0600, Hyndman wrote: >I was sitting out side 1/2 an hour ago checking the V and mA of the big solar cells, Dave wrote that they gave 5.4 V in noon sunlight, I got 6.4 V on my AMM(saving up for oscilloscope/DMM, stuck with AMM till then). I checked it on my other one and it gave out 6.2 V, everything else he recorded was right. > Did you measure the voltage with an load across the solar cell? (other than the meter) I'll guess that you didn't. You'll see a higher _no-load_ voltage. The 5.4V should be a useable voltage at some specified load current. Also the _maximum current_ should be stated at minimum voltage; that is, the voltage won't sag lower than 'x' volts while providing 'y' milliamps. [snip] Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00580CFC; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:01:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04260 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:12:00 -0700 Received: from relay3.jaring.my (relay3.jaring.my [192.228.128.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13697 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:52:36 -0500 Received: from wmtsang ([192.228.157.65]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11858; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:51:43 +0800 (MYT) Message-ID: <33EE9B39.4BF8@pc.jaring.my> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:55:21 +0800 From: Tsang Wai Meng X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Weait CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control References: <199708101439.KAA06408@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/10/97 09:55:21 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:02:11 AM-08/11/97 09:02:13 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:02:13 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Richard and Everyone, Thanks for gear information. Sound interesting I need to get a book about the gear. Yes! you are right about the gear box. I gotta the idea from Dave. So I working on the NE555 (PWM). I hope this well work. Because of the mini dc motor running on 3Vdc. I use 2 solar cell generating 7.2V step down the voltage will a 7805 regulator to 5V power the NE555 chip and the output of the NE555 5V step down again with zener diode 2.7V or 3.3V to run the mini DC motor. Do you think this work? Thanks, Tsang Richard Weait wrote: > > At 06:50 PM 8/9/97 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: > >Hi Dave & Everyone, > > > >Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my > insect > >rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was > great! > > > >I will perfer to run on the gear down box. Problem I couldn't find any gear > down > >box running on 10-15rpm. Can you direct me to find this gear down box? It > would > >be helpful. > > > >Thanks, > >Tsang > > Hi Tsang; > > You won't find a gearbox that is made for a specific _speed_. > Generally, you will find specific _gear ratios_. For example, > a twelve-tooth pinion gear used with a 48-tooth spur gear gives > a 4:1 gear ratio reduction. _Speed_ reduction won't be exactly > 4:1 due to friction and loading and tons of other stuff, but if > you know how fast the motor turns now, look for an appropriate > gear ratio to bring it closer to the speed you want. > > Now, other than speed, how is the motor you have? Does it > have enough torque? Too much torque? Right size? With an > "insect rover" as mentioned above, perhaps weight is a > concern? You can do the duty-cycle-thing using a CMOS version > of the NE555; look for "7555" or "TLC555", they both operate > at three volts. . . > > Cheers, > > Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00580D99; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:01:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04269 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:15:14 -0700 Received: from relay3.jaring.my (relay3.jaring.my [192.228.128.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13731 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:56:52 -0500 Received: from wmtsang ([192.228.157.65]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12067; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:55:45 +0800 (MYT) Message-ID: <33EE9C2D.2CFF@pc.jaring.my> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:59:25 +0800 From: Tsang Wai Meng X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control References: <199708101439.KAA06408@inforamp.net> <33EE9B39.4BF8@pc.jaring.my> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/10/97 09:59:25 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:02:13 AM-08/11/97 09:02:16 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:02:16 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Forget to say. Why not use TLC555. I couldn't find this TLC555 chip at my place. So I need to fall back to NE555 chip Tsang Tsang Wai Meng wrote: > > Hi Richard and Everyone, > > Thanks for gear information. Sound interesting I need to get a book > about the gear. Yes! you are right about the gear box. I gotta the idea > from Dave. So I working on the NE555 (PWM). I hope this well work. > > Because of the mini dc motor running on 3Vdc. I use 2 solar cell > generating 7.2V step down the voltage will a 7805 regulator to 5V power > the NE555 chip and the output of the NE555 5V step down again with zener > diode 2.7V or 3.3V to run the mini DC motor. Do you think this work? > > Thanks, > Tsang > Richard Weait wrote: > > > > At 06:50 PM 8/9/97 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > >Hi Dave & Everyone, > > > > > >Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my > > insect > > >rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was > > great! > > > > > >I will perfer to run on the gear down box. Problem I couldn't find any gear > > down > > >box running on 10-15rpm. Can you direct me to find this gear down box? It > > would > > >be helpful. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Tsang > > > > Hi Tsang; > > > > You won't find a gearbox that is made for a specific _speed_. > > Generally, you will find specific _gear ratios_. For example, > > a twelve-tooth pinion gear used with a 48-tooth spur gear gives > > a 4:1 gear ratio reduction. _Speed_ reduction won't be exactly > > 4:1 due to friction and loading and tons of other stuff, but if > > you know how fast the motor turns now, look for an appropriate > > gear ratio to bring it closer to the speed you want. > > > > Now, other than speed, how is the motor you have? Does it > > have enough torque? Too much torque? Right size? With an > > "insect rover" as mentioned above, perhaps weight is a > > concern? You can do the duty-cycle-thing using a CMOS version > > of the NE555; look for "7555" or "TLC555", they both operate > > at three volts. . . > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.005882E5; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:06:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03880 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:48:01 -0700 From: Dhendry@aol.com Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11504 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:59:17 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA07219; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970810175912_-85834554@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: raphael@wavefront.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: feeler wire SMTPOriginator: Dhendry@aol.com From: Dhendry@aol.com Subject: feeler wire PostedDate: 08/10/97 02:59:12 PM SendTo: raphael@wavefront.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:07:02 AM-08/11/97 09:08:02 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:08:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US <> Use piano wire. You can get it in most hardware stores (in various gauges). Some piano wire is hard to solder. Use an acid flux, or make the electrical connection by mechanical means. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00588911; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:07:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03850 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:13:37 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11384 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:35:56 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23540 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708102136.RAA23540@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp33.buffnet.net(205.246.19.140) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma016129; Sun, 10 Aug 97 17:34:56 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: MIT AHHH! Thanks for info on the CHips and Cells Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:28:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: MIT AHHH! Thanks for info on the CHips and Cells PostedDate: 08/10/97 03:28:45 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:07:31 AM-08/11/97 09:08:18 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:08:18 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Devin is right. MIT is begining to discover BEAM robotics, and that they are good ideas and worthwhile (AND INEXPENSIVE!) The fact is that when MIT latches on to BEAM it's gonna in a sense try to "own" it. Publishing "their" BEAM developments as new creative inventive Ideas. Hopefully it all works out ok, I just hope the credit goes to where credit is really due. Dennlill Thanks for the info on the Driving power of the solar cells. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00589625; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:07:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03763 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:53:09 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10573 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:30:13 -0500 Received: from ts31ip98.cadvision.com (ts31ip98.cadvision.com [207.228.70.98]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA238832 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:24:41 -0600 Received: by ts31ip98.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA590.6BD62040@ts31ip98.cadvision.com>; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:22:16 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCA590.6BD62040@ts31ip98.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: *cough*Dave made a mistake Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:22:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: *cough*Dave made a mistake PostedDate: 08/10/97 12:22:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:08:57 AM-08/11/97 09:10:22 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:10:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was sitting out side 1/2 an hour ago checking the V and mA of the big solar cells, Dave wrote that they gave 5.4 V in noon sunlight, I got 6.4 V on my AMM(saving up for oscilloscope/DMM, stuck with AMM till then). I checked it on my other one and it gave out 6.2 V, everything else he recorded was right. Also I was reading an old PM and in the tech update it had an article on MIT's ant, what it did had BEAM stamped all over it. Any of Mark T's creations are a lot better than it, well at least I think so. Beware in 7 years MIT is going to make an MITBUG 2.0 and a speedy grasshopper (mikes cockroach robot painted green) Devin "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts, the rest are details" - Albert Einstein "I will a little think" - Albert Einstein, in America $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00589F1E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:07:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03741 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:04:31 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10026 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:41:07 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA12247 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts5-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts6-16.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.159]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA08806 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708101841.OAA08806@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:20:23 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: New Guy SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: New Guy PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:20:23 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:09:37 AM-08/11/97 09:10:35 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:10:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:11 PM 8/10/97 -0400, "LORI WHITE" wrote: >Hey Everyone! >I am a budding EE at University of Florida. One year left to graduation. Good luck! >I have an interest in all types of robotics. I ran across the BEAM >philosophy and BEAM projects on the web. I have done some preliminary >reading on BEAM topics from the web (ie: Living Machines, How to build a >walker, Basic solar engine, etc.). I am going to do my senior project next >summer (1998) with some type of robotics. I am trying to do some >preliminary experiments and data gathering to increase my robotics >knowledge. Any help guiding me to more literature of the inexpensive >nature would be very helpful to me. Dear M.D.White; http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html http://www.golden.net/~amiller http://www.solarbotics.com http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html There is a _ton_ of good beginner material on these sites. It may take you some time to wade through it all. As for books: Mobile Robots: Inspiration to Implementation - Flynn / Jones Robot Builders Bonanza - McComb (take diagrams with grain of salt) Sensors (project book) - Mimms III (Radio Shack - <$5.00 !!!) Some would say that the Mimms book is too simple; not so! Not many can afford "Color 3-D Laser Mapping" sensors, and a simple touch switch might be all you need. . . > I have gathered some parts and plan to >have a working solarroller by the begining of fall semester (08-25-97). Ask everyone you know for all of their broken portable cassette players. Those motors are usually pretty good. >Thank you for any information and if I can help anyone please ask! "Help", hmmm? Well, I understand Florida is a nice place to visit. Perhaps you could invite everyone on the list (over 300) over for a drink??? :-) > >M.D.White >(Im using my wife's email address) Nice of her to share! Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.00589F7A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:07:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03732 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:58:10 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10029 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:41:10 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA12264 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts5-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts6-16.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.159]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA08835 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708101841.OAA08835@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:20:29 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:20:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:09:39 AM-08/11/97 09:10:36 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:10:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:35 PM 8/10/97 -0500, Dennlill wrote: >I was thinking more about the RollerSolarBus Idea. I came to the conclusion >that a SolarRollerBus might just be a frivalous idea. It sounds great but >is it really worth while? I don't know about anyone else, but none of my >friends are into robotics (they think it's cool but they don't yet >comprehend how they could be involved.) So I really have no one to "swap" >brains with. It might be neat however. "Frivolous" !?!?! Nyahh, :-P !!!! Working on your own, as many of us do, is not when the "Quick swap" is useful. It is useful when you meet a dozen other BEAM'ers at a one-day event, and there are suddenly 50 or 60 SolarRollers that you could "try your brains" on. Not all of your friends will see why you are interested in robotics. They just won't "get it." That's okay, though, to each - their own. However, once you have a few "little creatures" moving around on your desk you may find them a bit more interested. > >I have a question, I want to build a photovore, I know that you can simply >use two Solar engins, however I want to use a diffrent type circuit with >Gates and stuff to implement more behaviors. But I'm not really experinced >with Solar Cells and I wondered about how many standard chips (74hc00 type >) two or four solar Cells can run (the cells are solarbotics Largest, the >five volt ones.) So I guess this was kinda a general question, sorry I'll >try to be more specific a little latter. > >Dennlill Well, I'm glad you recognize that the question is a bit general. CMOS family chips, like "HC", don't use much current unless they are changing state. (switching outputs from high to low, or vice versa) The 3733 solar cell does have a nice high voltage, so as long as you keep _total current_ low enough, you should be okay. What is "low enough" for the current? Well, "depends." Let's hear more about what you would like to do. Bear in mind that the PhotoPopper (Solarbotics) has very interesting behaviour with _only_ two light sensors, and two touch sensors. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058AE1A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03713 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:41:29 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09793 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:24:07 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts50ip42.cadvision.com [207.228.73.42]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA119178; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:18:39 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970810122400.00b97e48@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:24:00 -0600 To: "LORI WHITE" , From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: New Guy In-Reply-To: <19970810170753.AAA9922@pulse.uwf.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: New Guy PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:24:00 AM SendTo: LoriWHITE@worldnet.att.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:09:59 AM-08/11/97 09:10:49 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:10:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:11 PM 8/10/1997 -0400, LORI WHITE wrote: >Any help guiding me to more literature of the inexpensive >nature would be very helpful to me. Mark Tilden's site (http//www.lanl.gov/~beam, I think) has a comprehensive list of all the articles BEAM has been featured in. For that matter, I think we've got a similar list on our website too. Hope your library has international newspaper archives... Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058AD21; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03706 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:13:41 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09518 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:57:59 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20026 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708101758.NAA20026@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp1.buffnet.net(205.246.19.108) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma015725; Sun, 10 Aug 97 13:57:00 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Re: Speed Control Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:50:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:50:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:09:53 AM-08/11/97 09:10:50 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:10:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If I used two SolarBotics Cells (the Big Ones) each that put out 5.5v at .15a then about how many ordinary chips could I drive? (Like regular Ne555, 74HC00, 74HC08, thinggs of that sort) I really don't have much expericnce with solar cells (I suckle from the batterie!) And I know there is a limit. Each I know put's out 5.5 volts, which with a solar engine running with a cap would be fine, but I'm worried about the Amperage, will I have enough? Because I want to design a neat photovore that uses the solar engin only for power, Dennison $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058B05C; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03698 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:07:31 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09376 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:42:52 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19865 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708101742.NAA19865@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp35.buffnet.net(205.246.19.142) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma013837; Sun, 10 Aug 97 13:41:35 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: How many Chips can solar cells drive? Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:35:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: How many Chips can solar cells drive? PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:35:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:11 AM-08/11/97 09:11:05 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was thinking more about the RollerSolarBus Idea. I came to the conclusion that a SolarRollerBus might just be a frivalous idea. It sounds great but is it really worth while? I don't know about anyone else, but none of my friends are into robotics (they think it's cool but they don't yet comprehend how they could be involved.) So I really have no one to "swap" brains with. It might be neat however. I have a question, I want to build a photovore, I know that you can simply use two Solar engins, however I want to use a diffrent type circuit with Gates and stuff to implement more behaviors. But I'm not really experinced with Solar Cells and I wondered about how many standard chips (74hc00 type ) two or four solar Cells can run (the cells are solarbotics Largest, the five volt ones.) So I guess this was kinda a general question, sorry I'll try to be more specific a little latter. Dennlill $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058B1D0; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03716 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:42:17 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09796 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:24:14 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts50ip42.cadvision.com [207.228.73.42]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA154518; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:18:41 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970810122656.00b93950@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:26:56 -0600 To: Dennlill , BEAM From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? In-Reply-To: <199708101742.NAA19865@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? PostedDate: 08/10/97 11:26:56 AM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:16 AM-08/11/97 09:11:06 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:35 PM 8/10/1997 -0500, Dennlill wrote: >I wondered about how many standard chips (74hc00 type >) two or four solar Cells can run (the cells are solarbotics Largest, the >five volt ones.) So I guess this was kinda a general question, sorry I'll >try to be more specific a little latter. You should be able to run quite a few logic chips with that kind of power. Just be sure to put a "softening cap" at each chip, consisting of a 22uF cap in parallel with the chip being fed thru a diode. Everytime the solarengine fires, it'll try to pull all the power out of the system. This'll make sure your logic chips will have enough power to "stay alive" until the power comes back up. You may need to experiment with the 22uF. May even need 220uF depending on what you're doing with the logic. Good luck, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058B417; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03662 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:52:32 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08870 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:35:30 -0500 Received: from scotty.bogon.com [207.6.172.36] by wu.bogon.com with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #3) id 0wxaxJ-0000bj-00; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:35:01 -0700 From: "Scott Martin" To: Subject: Re: feeler wire Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:23:18 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: Re: feeler wire PostedDate: 08/10/97 09:23:18 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:23 AM-08/11/97 09:11:06 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Raphael, Try guitar strings, thats what I use. Martin guitar strings make a silver alloy string that solders nicely. Try some different guages to see which one you prefer. These you can get at any music store. ScottyDogma ---------- > From: Raphael Carter > To: beam@webconn.com > Subject: feeler wire > Date: Saturday, August 09, 1997 3:24 AM > > What kind of wire works well for photovore feelers? I tried using > wire from an old spiral-bound notebook, and the feeler works fine as > a switch, but it's a bit too stiff -- the robot often can't push it > free of the obstacle. Plain copper hookup wire seems too soft. > > -- > Raphael $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058B54A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA03665 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:53:04 -0700 From: randy@3-dcon.com Received: from uu7.psi.com (uu7.psi.com [38.8.39.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08829 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:32:01 -0500 Received: by uu7.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.940727-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA09631 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 10 Aug 97 12:31:52 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by uu2088.3-dcon.com id AA870681913 Mon, 04 Aug 97 01:05:13 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 97 01:05:13 Message-Id: <9707048706.AA870681913@uu2088.3-dcon.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: unsubscribe SMTPOriginator: randy@3-dcon.com From: randy@3-dcon.com Subject: unsubscribe PostedDate: 08/03/97 06:05:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:27 AM-08/11/97 09:11:06 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US unsubscribe I have really enjoyed reading this and learning, but the volume is too formidable to have coming to my work email address! thanks all Randy Polumbo ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics Author: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) at net Date: 8/3/97 11:28 PM Brian O. Bush wrote: > [further evolution deletia] > > Of course another approach would be reconfigurable hardware (evolveHW) with > PLA chips on the plug in modules for the bot. However, as Tilden advocates, > the tek in these machines is not only in the nervous networks, but the > bodies as well. > I would suggest the two are so interdependent, they can not be separated. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058B64B; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:08:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA03679 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:23:03 -0700 Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09120 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:08:06 -0500 Received: from pulse.uwf.edu ([207.146.83.108]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA9922 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:07:55 +0000 From: "LORI WHITE" To: Subject: New Guy Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:11:09 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970810170753.AAA9922@pulse.uwf.edu> SMTPOriginator: LoriWHITE@worldnet.att.net From: LoriWHITE@worldnet.att.net Subject: New Guy PostedDate: 08/10/97 09:11:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:29 AM-08/11/97 09:11:07 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:07 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey Everyone! I am a budding EE at University of Florida. One year left to graduation. I have an interest in all types of robotics. I ran across the BEAM philosophy and BEAM projects on the web. I have done some preliminary reading on BEAM topics from the web (ie: Living Machines, How to build a walker, Basic solar engine, etc.). I am going to do my senior project next summer (1998) with some type of robotics. I am trying to do some preliminary experiments and data gathering to increase my robotics knowledge. Any help guiding me to more literature of the inexpensive nature would be very helpful to me. I have gathered some parts and plan to have a working solarroller by the begining of fall semester (08-25-97). Thank you for any information and if I can help anyone please ask! M.D.White (Im using my wife's email address) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058BB6E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:09:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA03631 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:49:09 -0700 From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Received: from relay.interserv.com (relay.interserv.com [165.121.2.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08399 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:32:02 -0500 Received: from 161.142.235.138 (j12.brf58.jaring.my) by relay.interserv.com with SMTP id AA09026 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for beam@webconn.com); Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:30:45 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:30:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199708101530.AA09026@relay.interserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Speed Control To: Andrew Vaughan , beam@webconn.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/10/97 08:30:45 AM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:51 AM-08/11/97 09:11:12 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:12 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Andrew & Everyone, Thanks again. I will try to locate the TCL555 to test with the DC motor. Question - Do you know about the AAA, C, and D batteries AMP? My solar cell is 3.6V Is there away to step down the voltage to 1.5V but still maintain the AMP? I could run the mini motor with a 1.5V the rpm is move slow. It works! When I ascend a ramp the motor stop. When I use 2 batteries but maintain the voltage 1.5V I could ascend. So you see I need to step down the voltage from my solar cell 3.6V to 1.5V Regards, Tsang Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >At 18:50 9/08/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Dave & Everyone, >> >>Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my >insect >>rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was >great! > >the bipolar version (ne555) operates from between 4.5 and 16V, but the CMOS >version (tlc555) works from between 2 and 18V > >Andrew > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | > Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? > GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents > L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always > M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to > 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." > r--- !y+(**) | > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058BD4B; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:09:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA03595 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:55:09 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08044 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:39:27 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA01400 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts5-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts5-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.164]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA06408 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708101439.KAA06408@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:18:48 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Speed Control SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/10/97 07:18:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:10:57 AM-08/11/97 09:11:12 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:12 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:50 PM 8/9/97 -0700, tsangwm@pc.jaring.my wrote: >Hi Dave & Everyone, > >Thanks a lot for the advice. I am using a solar cell running 3.6V for my insect >rover. I couldn't power a NE555 chip because it is a 5V. But the idea was great! > >I will perfer to run on the gear down box. Problem I couldn't find any gear down >box running on 10-15rpm. Can you direct me to find this gear down box? It would >be helpful. > >Thanks, >Tsang Hi Tsang; You won't find a gearbox that is made for a specific _speed_. Generally, you will find specific _gear ratios_. For example, a twelve-tooth pinion gear used with a 48-tooth spur gear gives a 4:1 gear ratio reduction. _Speed_ reduction won't be exactly 4:1 due to friction and loading and tons of other stuff, but if you know how fast the motor turns now, look for an appropriate gear ratio to bring it closer to the speed you want. Now, other than speed, how is the motor you have? Does it have enough torque? Too much torque? Right size? With an "insect rover" as mentioned above, perhaps weight is a concern? You can do the duty-cycle-thing using a CMOS version of the NE555; look for "7555" or "TLC555", they both operate at three volts. . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058D15E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:10:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03563 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 06:32:52 -0700 Received: from hermes.iupui.edu (hermes.iupui.edu [134.68.220.31]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07459 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:06:55 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c1p24.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.241.125]) by hermes.iupui.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20676 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:06:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33EDAD9F.337@iupui.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:01:35 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/10/97 05:01:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:11:55 AM-08/11/97 09:11:57 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:11:57 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Brian O. Bush wrote: > [further evolution deletia] > > Of course another approach would be reconfigurable hardware (evolveHW) with > PLA chips on the plug in modules for the bot. However, as Tilden advocates, > the tek in these machines is not only in the nervous networks, but the > bodies as well. > I would suggest the two are so interdependent, they can not be separated. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0058D23F; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:10:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03560 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 06:32:50 -0700 Received: from hermes.iupui.edu (hermes.iupui.edu [134.68.220.31]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07547 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:23:11 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c1p24.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.241.125]) by hermes.iupui.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20953 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:23:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33EDB170.66E8@iupui.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 08:17:52 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal (TM) :-) PostedDate: 08/10/97 05:17:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:11:57 AM-08/11/97 09:12:00 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:12:01 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Richard Weait wrote: [clip] > > Reality check time. What do you think? > The bus idea seems workable in a solar roller where the physical/electronic interactions are fairly simple. I built my first solar engine this way, with connectors for the motor and solar cell so I could switch them out. What do you think about a pair of connections for the resistor in the typical solar engine? I've seen the requirements change based on the load ( motor or magbot coil ). Or perhaps engines designed to the standard should include a pot. I don't, however, see much success along these lines with walkers and the microcore. I've built a walker body, and hooked it to my "breadboard" microcore, and tuned it to walk. Then, installed another microcore using equivalent parts only to see it fall over repeatedly. In short it required a complete retunning. I have since given up the breadboard approach building the bot's brains directly. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.005E6439; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:11:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA05643 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:59:28 -0700 Received: from mail.llu.edu (mail.llu.edu [151.112.2.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17911 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:47:36 -0500 Received: from llu.edu.llu.edu ([151.112.23.43]) by mail.llu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16957 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33EF4261.8BD8BB2C@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:48:33 -0700 From: Scott Andress X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solution for suicidal photovores... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: srandress@earthlink.net From: srandress@earthlink.net Subject: Solution for suicidal photovores... PostedDate: 08/11/97 09:48:33 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 10:11:09 AM-08/11/97 10:11:10 AM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 10:11:11 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just posted pix and a description of my new photovore Scarab 2. I wanted to find a way for the little guy to detect the edge of a surface (table, desk, windowsill) and stop before he plummeted to his death. I'm sure that this has been done before, but you may want to check out my implementation at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8005/ -Scott $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.007A5AD7; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:16:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA07173 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:04:09 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19597 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:36:08 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id R]V13076; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:34:25 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970811.170420.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,6-7,29 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:34:25 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 02:34:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 03:16:31 PM-08/11/97 03:16:32 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 03:16:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 09 Aug 1997 23:27:53 -0600 Dave Hrynkiw writes: >Actually, you can. I've done it. Towards the lower end of the >voltage scale (~1.5V) the time intervals shorten (too bad they >didn't lengthen - oh well...). But on the whole, they work drawing >about 50uA. If you do, use the Samsung for the lowest current draw >(KS555). I tested about 6 variaties, and Samsungs was the lowest >power draw. i had another mental flash on the way home from a wedding this morning that i thought i would share.. im not sure how well it falls into b.e.a.m. specs.. but basicaly this bot pair dupes the insect/plant relationship where a unit i've called a solar flower is in a moderately fixed position and has an array of solar cells that track the light source and stores it all in some form of storage capacity (not sure yet exactly what would be best.. lots of caps or some kind of battery or whatnot) when the "fruit" is ripe.. being the level of voltage in the storage.. it would set off an I.R. blinking circut (i'll go more into this later) which would attract the attention of the bot should the bot be low on power.. using I.R. transistors as eyes.. it would find its way back to the plant to recharge then go back on it's primary task. (spying in some dark corner on sound inputs or who knows when my mind really gets spinning) ok.. basicaly as the plant stores more juice the becon would be made to blink more and more often according to how much is stored.. im sure there is a way to do it but what would be the easiest way to have something go intermitent at an increasing rate of 'on' time with increased voltage? also.. how plausible would it be to keep like 1 AAA battery on the roving unit as power storage that would get recharged? or is there a cap that would last long enough to be useful? ok.. either im thinking too much or im not expereanced enough to know what is and isnt workable.. but thanks for any input in advance.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F0.0080D256; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:27:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA07591 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:14:48 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20186 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:47:49 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wy3FX-0003qj-00; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:47:43 -0400 Received: from ts10-13.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-13.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.92]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02318 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708112248.SAA02318@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:26:58 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: How many Chips can solar cells drive? PostedDate: 08/11/97 03:26:58 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 04:27:09 PM-08/11/97 04:27:10 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 04:27:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:15 PM 8/10/97 -0400, wrote in e-mail: >Richard, > >I am still confused about sensors. I have seen pictures on the beam web >site but am still not sure how they are hooked up to the motors . What is >the difference between touch sensors and feeler sensors ? How do they work >? I have read somewhere that the sensors " short-out" the motor oppisite >the sensor that was touched. If so this seems like a waste of stored up >power that the solar cell worked hard to produce . It would be nice if >someone drew up a SIMPLE diagram for those of us new to robotics. Thanks >for any help. > >Ed Jones >sargon@gte.net > > Hi Ed; Sorry to reply to the list, rather than privately, but this is too general a topic to not share. You didn't want this to be a secret, did you? :-) 'Touch' vs. 'feeler', means the same to me. I'm sure I've used the terms interchangeably. There is a diagram on the Solarbotics site. Now, about the connection: You are correct; to put these in parallel with the motor would be wasteful of energy. Touch sensors work very nicely in the low current section of your switching circuit, regardless of what the circuit might be. The PhotoPopper Kit is a clever mechanical design, with a clever electronic design. This combination makes it a great introduction to robotics for somebody who knows a bit about either electronics or mechanics. Dave worked hard on the manual, and you will benefit from the tips he gives on 'tweaking' the project so that I goes from "I guess it works" to "Look at that!" Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00016AE7; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:15:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07743 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:03:52 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20491 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:36:53 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.227] (dialup08.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.227]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA18888; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:52:01 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708111433.JAA28781@abc> References: <3.0.1.32.19970809121342.00b9504c@cadvision.com> from "Dave Hrynkiw" at Aug 9, 97 12:13:42 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:40:29 -0400 To: dwhall@ksu.edu, beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/11/97 04:40:29 PM SendTo: dwhall@ksu.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 05:15:40 PM-08/11/97 05:15:41 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 05:15:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US [el deletia...] >The first and foremost principle in BEAM is Biology. >One thing I know about biology is not to bundle all your nervous tissue >in one place. (the human hand has two major bundles so that at least 1/2 >of it will work if the other bundle is damaged)(the brain has a left >and right half that can compensate for the other)(etc). So let me get this straight, you have (successfully) divided up a hex inverter into six separate functioning pieces? Or do you use 6 inverters ICs? :) Well, unless you have, you esentially have placed all of your eggs in one basket. the 74x14 basket. So be it in one plug in module, or on one IC, until you have much more complicated NvNets--you cannot convince me that you are exhibiting redundancy. >Bus idea is good for rollers, but not Nv-based bugs. >Unless you called the bus a bundle and made a redundant bundle somewhere. >But this can affect efficiency. I fail to see the difference, but i will admit--yes the bot's body and Nv net is closely related (interdependent). an Nv Net is very sensitive and higher on the complexity scale, but there are alot of fine tuning that could easily be accomplished by a plug in module. Some of us do not have infinite supplies of cash--I would love to just sit down and build three or four bots, with many different modules and effectively see the behavior of twelve bots. Some with sensors, some without, some with IR sensors to find the mother charge station, ad infinitum. Well, I have talked enough. I guess i am going to have to build it to show ya, huh? ok. well, just my 2 or 3 cents. Cheers, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0002F21B; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:32:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07827 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:20:41 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20621 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:58:02 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.227] (dialup08.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.227]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19329 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:14:26 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:02:53 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: blocking diode on solar walker? SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: blocking diode on solar walker? PostedDate: 08/11/97 05:02:53 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 05:32:20 PM-08/11/97 05:32:21 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 05:32:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all. Well, I have been testing my solarized walker NvNet (and the spaghetti mess of wires and motors). On a partly cloudy day (with wind), where the clouds move rapidly... I noted my baby bot's capacitor loses a charge through the solar cell. In walk the blocking diode... that prevents the current from batteries leaking through the solar panel(s). Question: Does a solar walker need a block diode of sorts (like a small signal diode--since the current is small) to prevent damage to the solar cell? I am currently using one with (and as well without) without much difference (note: this is not a scientific statement--just what I perceived). Comments? Thanks, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0003B10C; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:40:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07858 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:28:56 -0700 Received: from geocities.com (mail.geocities.com [204.7.246.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20771 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:12:23 -0500 Received: from deepone (ppp-207-214-187-9.anhm01.pacbell.net [207.214.187.9]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04484; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33EFAA50.699@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:12:16 -0700 From: Michael Scanlon Reply-To: mscan@geocities.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBWG (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, Nyt wulf Subject: Re: Speed Control References: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> <19970811.170420.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mscan@geocities.com From: mscan@geocities.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 05:12:16 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,nytwulf@juno.com ReplyTo: mscan@geocities.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 05:40:30 PM-08/11/97 05:40:31 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 05:40:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Nyt wulf wrote: > i had another mental flash on the way home from a wedding this morning > that i thought i would share.. im not sure how well it falls into > b.e.a.m. specs.. but basicaly this bot pair dupes the insect/plant > relationship where a unit i've called a solar flower is in a moderately > fixed position and has an array of solar cells that track the light > source and stores it all in some form of storage capacity (not sure yet > exactly what would be best.. lots of caps or some kind of battery or > whatnot) when the "fruit" is ripe.. I thought of something similar to this awhile ago, but my lack of electronics knowledge has keep me from posting. My question, however, is this: Wouldn't a photovore with a battery/capaictor and solar combo on top of it be better then just a stationary flower/fruit? That way the flower/fruit thing would also seek out light, but would store it for other creatures use as well. It really wouldn't matter how fast the thing moved since its only point would be to find energy for Other creatures. What do you think? Michael Scanlon UC Santa Barbara freshman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0008F099; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:37:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08056 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:26:09 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21383 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:13:42 -0500 Received: from tink (m011.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.240]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04895 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:09:29 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812011552.006a5e2c@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:52 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/11/97 06:15:52 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 06:37:50 PM-08/11/97 06:37:52 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 06:37:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:33 11/08/97 -0500, you wrote: >+ >+At 10:25 AM 8/9/1997 -0400, Richard Weait wrote: >+> This (bus-thing) is something that I've been kicking around >+>for a while. Seems trivial for the SolarRoller: >... >+>- When you want to swap engines / bodies, just "Plug 'n Play" (TM) ;-) >+ >+Sounds quite handy for comparing alternate electronics on the same body. >+Ideal for circuit efficiency comparisons. After all, theoretical efficiency > >Yes, a bus is good for modularization, which is good for PNP & comparisons >as Richard and Dave mention above, but I'd tak exception to Brian's idea >of the NvNet bus. > >The first and foremost principle in BEAM is Biology. >One thing I know about biology is not to bundle all your nervous tissue >in one place. (the human hand has two major bundles so that at least 1/2 >of it will work if the other bundle is damaged)(the brain has a left >and right half that can compensate for the other)(etc). I'll have to pull you up for that one! What about the spinal cord? > >Bus idea is good for rollers, but not Nv-based bugs. >Unless you called the bus a bundle and made a redundant bundle somewhere. >But this can affect efficiency. I wish biology had thought of that! I've actually been working on an idea for brass contacts or something similar to use to control things from my wheelchair controller. A similar system could be used Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0008F381; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:37:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08013 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:14:31 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21189 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:55:19 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts17ip104.cadvision.com [207.228.68.104]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA283274; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:48:30 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970811185556.00b9cc24@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:55:56 -0600 To: "Brian O. Bush" , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: blocking diode on solar walker? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: blocking diode on solar walker? PostedDate: 08/11/97 05:55:56 PM SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 06:37:51 PM-08/11/97 06:37:52 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 06:37:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:02 PM 8/11/1997 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >Question: Does a solar walker need a block diode of sorts (like a small >signal diode--since the current is small) to prevent damage to the solar >cell? I am currently using one with (and as well without) without much >difference (note: this is not a scientific statement--just what I >perceived). I personally haven't _yet_, but I suppose it would be a good idea. You won't damage the cell, just turn some stored energy into heat. If you do use a diode, spend the extra 50 cents and get a germanium diode that drops only 0.3 vs 0.7V the regular diodes do. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00097526; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:43:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08066 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:31:52 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21384 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:13:43 -0500 Received: from tink (m011.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.240]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04897 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:09:32 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812011554.006a7ee8@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:54 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/11/97 06:15:54 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 06:43:27 PM-08/11/97 06:43:28 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 06:43:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 17:34 11/08/97 EDT, you wrote: >On Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:22:22 +1000 Andrew Vaughan >writes: >>well, alt.hackers has an interesting set up. I've been trying for >a few >years to post there, but I still can't figure it out! > >hehehe i like that.. tho im not suprised at that fact.. why? Do YOU know how to post there? :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.000A3947; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:51:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08072 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:38:14 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21386 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:13:45 -0500 Received: from tink (m011.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.240]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04899 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:09:33 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812011556.006a9758@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:56 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Evolution of robotics PostedDate: 08/11/97 06:15:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 06:51:47 PM-08/11/97 06:51:48 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 06:51:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 17:34 11/08/97 EDT, you wrote: >>well, the only aim was for it to move, and falling (more rolling) >>fulfilled >>that requirement so it survived! :) isn't chaos great! :) > >oh i love it.. back in math class we had a program that would run math >problems out visualy and i loved messing with the gravity well option.. >=] just an example.. i had set up a very ordered ring of points that >repelled the "ball" and no matter how you tried you couldnt keep it in >the center stable for long. yet alot of random patterns of reflecting >points would make a clear path that the ball would follow.. Mmmmmmmmmm brings back memories! :) > >>that reminds me! Anybody seen the movie "Evolver"? BEAM gone mad! >:) > >didnt catch that one.. sorry.. what was it about? basically this guy won (cheated) a competition with this virtual reality gaming center. The prize was this robot from within the virtual reality game (a shoot em' up type thing). It started out sticking to the rules of the game using the little plastic balls it was supplied with, but then it started using ball bearings etc. Anyway, it turned out this thing was evolving with the sole purpose of winning Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.000A83D0; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:54:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08083 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:43:08 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21387 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:13:47 -0500 Received: from tink (m011.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.240]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04901 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:09:35 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812011557.006ab324@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:57 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 06:15:57 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 06:55:01 PM-08/11/97 06:55:02 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 06:55:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 17:34 11/08/97 EDT, you wrote: >i had another mental flash on the way home from a wedding this morning >that i thought i would share.. im not sure how well it falls into >b.e.a.m. specs.. but basicaly this bot pair dupes the insect/plant >relationship where a unit i've called a solar flower is in a moderately >fixed position and has an array of solar cells that track the light >source and stores it all in some form of storage capacity (not sure yet >exactly what would be best.. lots of caps or some kind of battery or >whatnot) when the "fruit" is ripe.. being the level of voltage in the >storage.. it would set off an I.R. blinking circut (i'll go more into >this later) which would attract the attention of the bot should the bot >be low on power.. using I.R. transistors as eyes.. it would find its way >back to the plant to recharge then go back on it's primary task. (spying >in some dark corner on sound inputs or who knows when my mind really gets >spinning) ok.. basicaly as the plant stores more juice the becon would be >made to blink more and more often according to how much is stored.. im >sure there is a way to do it but what would be the easiest way to have >something go intermitent at an increasing rate of 'on' time with >increased voltage? also.. how plausible would it be to keep like 1 AAA >battery on the roving unit as power storage that would get recharged? or >is there a cap that would last long enough to be useful? ok.. either im >thinking too much or im not expereanced enough to know what is and isnt >workable.. but thanks for any input in advance.. > > wow! I was developing the exact same idea! (Except without the "solar flower" name) I had visions of little solar panel leaf plants growing on our house's courtyard with a couple of little bots wandering around feeding on them :) it would be a) more efficient b) closer to the biological equivalent (how many bugs do you know that photosynthesize) c) it would keep them from wandering off I thought I was the only one demented enough to imagine these things! :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0010E52A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:04:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA08183 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:52:58 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22506 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:38:02 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13777; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:40:05 -0700 Received: from localhost by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA25248; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:30:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:30:36 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Tsang Wai Meng cc: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control In-Reply-To: <33EE9C2D.2CFF@pc.jaring.my> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 07:30:36 PM SendTo: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my CopyTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 08:04:44 PM-08/11/97 08:04:45 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 08:04:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Say, I've never even _heard_ of any "TCL555" before anyway. If you can't find that, look for "NEC555"(or any "555"-type thing with a C in the name somewhere). Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00145C97; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:42:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08210 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:30:54 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22868 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:03:58 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14682 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:06:02 -0700 Received: from localhost by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA28119; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:57:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:57:09 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Bus-thing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Bus-thing PostedDate: 08/11/97 07:57:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 08:42:28 PM-08/11/97 08:42:29 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 08:42:29 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Why not use component carriers and IC sockets? They are specially for that purpose. JDR Microdevices carries them. And for those among us who don't have their catalog, they are basically a small plastic plate with pins going through them. The top part of the pins is a little two-prong fork, which you solder the component leads to, and the bottom part of the pins is just your basic square lead(_not_ wire-wrap). They are about the size of an IC. I got some with just this purpose. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0018A13E; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:29:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08343 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:17:38 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23440 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:11:12 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts55ip207.cadvision.com [207.228.73.207]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA188138; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:03:41 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970811220817.00c983d0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:08:17 -0600 To: garrett myrick , Tsang Wai Meng From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Speed Control Cc: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: References: <33EE9C2D.2CFF@pc.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 09:08:17 PM SendTo: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us,tsangwm@pc.jaring.my CopyTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 09:29:05 PM-08/11/97 09:29:08 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 09:29:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:30 PM 8/11/1997 -0700, garrett myrick wrote: >Say, I've never even _heard_ of any "TCL555" before anyway. If you can't >find >that, look for "NEC555"(or any "555"-type thing with a C in the name >somewhere). I seem to recall being able to find both the TLC and KS (Samsung) series at Radio Shack if you dig thru the baggies on the wall.... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.001E93F8; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:33:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08422 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:22:14 -0700 Received: from kauri.vuw.ac.nz (kauri.vuw.ac.nz [130.195.2.248]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23869 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:07:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (tenhave@localhost) by kauri.vuw.ac.nz (8.8.4/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA28836 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:07:02 +1200 (NZT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:07:02 +1200 (NZT) From: David ten Have To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Salvaging surface mounted components. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: David.ten.Have@vuw.ac.nz From: David.ten.Have@vuw.ac.nz Subject: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/11/97 10:07:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 10:34:05 PM-08/11/97 10:34:06 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 10:34:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, A number of disc drives have passed my way and at the moment I am taking the microswitches and the motors (I have doubts about the efficency of these things...any general ideas?) from them. One thing I have noticed is that they have squillions of surface mounted compenents...is it worth salvaging these? Cheers dave -------------------------------------- Pay attention to features and performance that can really make a difference to the end user, and never forget that it's dark in the box. --Joseph Palmer, former Director of Hardware Engineering at Be, Incorporated. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00244FDF; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:36:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08457 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:25:14 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24488 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:16:49 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id C`G13076; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:05 EDT To: dennlill@buffnet.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970812.014433.6495.7.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199708120307.XAA23866@buffnet4.buffnet.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:05 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 11:16:05 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 11:36:40 PM-08/11/97 11:36:42 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 11:36:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:00:07 -0500 Dennlill writes: >Hey! If you need power why not a Nicad 9 volt? That should do it! i wanna keep whatever battery i might need small and light.. and if i do it right.. i wouldnt need that much voltage anyhow.. im thinking of having it run off the one small battery as if the battery was the solar cell.. with a solar engine to run everything else.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0024502A; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:36:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08458 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:25:15 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24501 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:17:47 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id C`A13076; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:04 EDT To: mscan@geocities.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970812.014433.6495.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> <19970811.170420.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> <33EFAA50.699@geocities.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,9-10,20,24 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:04 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 11:16:04 PM SendTo: mscan@geocities.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 11:36:41 PM-08/11/97 11:36:43 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 11:36:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:12:16 -0700 Michael Scanlon writes: >I thought of something similar to this awhile ago, but my lack of >electronics knowledge has keep me from posting. My question, >however, is this: Wouldn't a photovore with a battery/capaictor >and solar combo on top of it be better then just a stationary >flower/fruit? That way the flower/fruit thing would also seek out >light, but would store it for other creatures use as well. It >really wouldn't matter how fast the thing moved since its only >point would be to find energy for Other creatures. What do you >think? ok well i was thinking of the idea that cockaroches dont like being out in the light and stay in shadows.. so i was working more with behaviour then anything else.. in this concept the roving bot would get itself charged up then go off to hide or whatever.. do its task untill it needed more power.. if the plant wasnt ready to recharge it.. the rover would sit in waiting.. then when the plant was all powered up.. it would start blinking its signal.. i was also thinking of having it blink proportionaly to how much power it has stored in case i have more then one plant within range of the rover.. so that the rover would try and goto the better plant first.. i also wanted the plant to be at least slightly mobile incase it found itself stuck in some dark corner after the sun moved out of the window or something like that.. where no matter what angle you point the solar array.. you wont get anything.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.002457AF; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:36:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08462 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:25:34 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24500 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:17:47 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id C`D13076; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:04 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970812.014433.6495.4.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970812011557.006ab324@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,5,11-12,15-16,21-23 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:16:04 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/11/97 11:16:04 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/11/97 11:37:01 PM-08/11/97 11:37:02 PM DeliveredDate: 08/11/97 11:37:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:57 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >wow! I was developing the exact same idea! (Except without the >"solar flower" name) I had visions of little solar panel leaf >plants growing on our house's courtyard with a couple of little >bots wandering around feeding on them :) it would be a) more yeah.. i figure each 'leaf' would have its own lil batch of photoresistors to tell it what angle to turn.. that way rather then trying to compute it all from a central point for all leaves.. the sensing unit's job would be to bring the leaf back to center on the light.. since when you move the sensor with the leaf.. it would self calibrate.. >efficient b) closer to the biological equivalent (how many bugs do >you know that photosynthesize) c) it would keep them from >wandering off I thought I was the only one demented enough to >imagine these things! exactly.. i also discovered (accidently) that tv remotes and such brodcast an AM radio pulse over the whole band.. the range is limited to about 2 meters or so.. and volume increases alot as you come closer.. i was thinking of using something like this to make sure the rover wont go too far out of range and wont be able to find its way back home... =] dont worry.. i can come up with some severly demented ideas..=] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0026EE0E; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:05:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08490 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:53:42 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25011 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:49:49 -0500 Received: from port111.img.net ([207.34.144.111]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA400; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:54:09 -0700 Received: by port111.img.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA6B1.2BAFE060@port111.img.net>; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:49:13 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCA6B1.2BAFE060@port111.img.net> From: "Mairs, T." To: "'Richard Weait'" , "beam@webconn.com" Subject: RE: BEAM newsgroup Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:04:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: RE: BEAM newsgroup PostedDate: 08/11/97 09:04:13 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 12:05:17 AM-08/12/97 12:05:18 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 12:05:18 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The last time I retrieved mail from this group, there were approx. 45 messages and the download time was less than 2 minutes. Either you (Andrew) are using a 300 baud modem on a 286, or you need to check your mail more often :) I see no need for a newsgroup that would ultimately just be another repository for useless spam. Mark and the 'Beam-Boys' are doing a great job with the list as it is. TOM http://www.img.net/aasland - Don't miss out.... -----Original Message----- From: Richard Weait [SMTP:crs0274@inforamp.net] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 4:05 PM To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM newsgroup At 05:53 PM 8/7/97 +1000, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >how about we set up a BEAM newsgroup, as its taking me 15 minutes just to >download the mail... then half of it is useless to me > >any suggestions? >Andrew > > > > That would make us more vulnerable to spam, I think. How often do you log-in, that it would take 15 minutes to get your mail? Or are you using a computer / modem even older than mine ? ;-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0026FECA; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:05:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08493 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:54:32 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25014 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:49:52 -0500 Received: from port111.img.net ([207.34.144.111]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA230 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:54:17 -0700 Received: by port111.img.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BCA6B1.31304340@port111.img.net>; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:49:22 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCA6B1.31304340@port111.img.net> From: "Mairs, T." To: "beam@webconn.com" Subject: RE: HEY! This looks familiar... Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:19:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: RE: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/11/97 09:19:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 12:06:08 AM-08/12/97 12:06:10 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 12:06:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Hrynkiw writes >>MIT looks like it's latching onto BEAM Philosophy: >> >>http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/mars-rovers/rockettes.html >> >>Kinda looks like some of the Solarollers we've been building for...what? 4 >>years now? > >I'm sure there's a job waiting for you at MIT, Dave :) > > Actually, Rod Brooks has been pestering Dave for a job for months now. Dave keeps saying "processor, shmoe-cessor!" :-) HA ! - I like it !. So, does this mean Attilla and Cog are going SOLAR ? Will we see the good Dr. Brooks at the next Beam fest ? - Cool !. TOM $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.005243F5; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:58:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA08545 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:04:56 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25919 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:58:40 -0500 Received: from tink (m053.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.198]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09253 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:54:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812080046.006acef4@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:00:46 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/12/97 01:00:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 07:58:48 AM-08/12/97 07:58:48 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 07:58:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 19:30 11/08/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >Say, I've never even _heard_ of any "TCL555" before anyway. If you can't >find >that, look for "NEC555"(or any "555"-type thing with a C in the name >somewhere). > one place to try would be http://www.dse.com.au I know their shops stock them Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00524442; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:58:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08539 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:51:31 -0700 Received: from relay3.jaring.my (relay3.jaring.my [192.228.128.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25673 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:36:26 -0500 Received: from wmtsang ([192.228.157.65]) by relay3.jaring.my (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22129; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:33:48 +0800 (MYT) Message-ID: <33F012B6.7507@pc.jaring.my> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:37:26 +0800 From: Tsang Wai Meng X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nyt wulf CC: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control References: <1.5.4.32.19970812011557.006ab324@ix.net.au> <19970812.014433.6495.4.nytwulf@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my From: tsangwm@pc.jaring.my Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/12/97 12:37:26 AM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 07:58:48 AM-08/12/97 07:58:50 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 07:58:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Nyt wulf wrote: > exactly.. i also discovered (accidently) that tv remotes and such > brodcast an AM radio pulse over the whole band.. the range is limited to > about 2 meters or so.. and volume increases alot as you come closer.. i > was thinking of using something like this to make sure the rover wont go > too far out of range and wont be able to find its way back home... =] > > dont worry.. i can come up with some severly demented ideas..=] Sound interesting! I am now working on a terrain rover running on solar cell. Look like a Mars Pathfinder. The first idea I have was the rover transmitting beep to my FM radio. So I could locate the rover anytime of the day. But your idea sound great then my. I see... I will think about the idea. The rover finding away home to my radio receiver. I would like to hear more about your idea? Regards, Tsang $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0052449F; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:58:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA08548 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:05:59 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25945 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:59:55 -0500 Received: from tink (m053.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.198]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09258; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:54:26 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970812080050.00673130@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:00:50 +1000 To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/12/97 01:00:50 AM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 07:58:50 AM-08/12/97 07:58:53 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 07:58:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:16 12/08/97 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:15:57 +1000 Andrew Vaughan >writes: >>wow! I was developing the exact same idea! (Except without the >"solar >flower" name) I had visions of little solar panel leaf >plants growing on >our house's courtyard with a couple of little >bots wandering around >feeding on them :) it would be a) more >yeah.. i figure each 'leaf' would have its own lil batch of >photoresistors to tell it what angle to turn.. that way rather then >trying to compute it all from a central point for all leaves.. the >sensing unit's job would be to bring the leaf back to center on the >light.. since when you move the sensor with the leaf.. it would self >calibrate.. maybe. I would have thought just tipping the whole stem over would be easier. Unless it you found a more efficient way. I'll have to do some biological research for this one. I think plants do it by moving liquid around within them > >>efficient b) closer to the biological equivalent (how many bugs do >you >know that photosynthesize) c) it would keep them from >wandering off I >thought I was the only one demented enough to >imagine these things! > >exactly.. i also discovered (accidently) that tv remotes and such >brodcast an AM radio pulse over the whole band.. the range is limited to >about 2 meters or so.. and volume increases alot as you come closer.. i >was thinking of using something like this to make sure the rover wont go >too far out of range and wont be able to find its way back home... =] I'm guessing that wouldn't be to efficient though. Either a dedicated RF transmitter or an infra red LED would be better. Even an ultrasonic transducer. perhaps even a magnetic field > >dont worry.. i can come up with some severly demented ideas..=] glad to see there are other creative people out there too :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- | Version: 3.1 | "Why robotics? GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P | Well my parents L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- | were always M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) | telling me to 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) | make new friends." r--- !y+(**) | ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ | -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00524705; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:58:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08499 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:02:09 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25171 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:56:51 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts74ip48.cadvision.com [207.228.113.48]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA183346; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:49:56 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970812010037.00f1d8bc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:00:37 -0600 To: "Mairs, T." , "beam@webconn.com" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: RE: HEY! This looks familiar... In-Reply-To: <01BCA6B1.31304340@port111.img.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: RE: HEY! This looks familiar... PostedDate: 08/12/97 12:00:37 AM SendTo: tmairs@img.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 07:59:02 AM-08/12/97 07:59:03 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 07:59:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:19 PM 8/11/1997 -0700, Mairs, T. wrote: > So, does this mean Attilla and Cog are going SOLAR ? Will we see the good Dr. Brooks at the next Beam fest ? - Cool !. Rod tried to tell me that we could use Cog to be the doorman at the next meeting, but I figured the amusement factor of Cog forever reaching for the knob and getting fascinated by it's own hand would wear thin pretty quick.... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0055B4A0; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:36:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA09089 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:24:33 -0700 From: dwhall@ksu.edu Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28629 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:56:07 -0500 Received: from abc (dwhall@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id JAA14427 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:55:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: by abc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id JAA19699; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:55:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199708121455.JAA19699@abc> Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal To: beam@webconn.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:55:51 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Brian O. Bush" at Aug 11, 97 07:40:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dwhall@ksu.edu From: dwhall@ksu.edu Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/12/97 07:55:51 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 08:36:18 AM-08/12/97 08:36:19 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 08:36:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US +So let me get this straight, you have (successfully) divided up a hex +inverter into six separate functioning pieces? Or do you use 6 inverters +ICs? :) I shouldn't have mentioned redundancy, that wasn't my issue. Avoiding singularity was. [cipher that one!] +Well, unless you have, you esentially have placed all of your eggs in one +basket. the 74x14 basket. So be it in one plug in module, or on one IC, +until you have much more complicated NvNets--you cannot convince me that +you are exhibiting redundancy. You're right. NvNets are not quite to the point where they need redundant ICs. Only tilden and a few others have madenets of that magnitude. I just want to make sure that NvNet technology isn't confined to a bus. Yes, a bus is a good prototyping tool, allowing interchangability of modules, thus allowing good comparison studies. But for the long-term survivability of the species, I'd recommend not routing all your nervous pathways through one juncture. !!Dean ps: this is a *good* discussion, I hope you still hear my voice as friendly. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00561585; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:40:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA09139 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:28:40 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28740 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:11:41 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA19372 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id JAA17070 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:11:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:12:09 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/12/97 08:12:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 08:40:23 AM-08/12/97 08:40:24 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 08:40:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 5:07 PM +1200 8/12/97, David ten Have wrote: >Hi, >One thing I have noticed is >that they have squillions of surface mounted compenents...is it worth >salvaging these? Probably not because they don't tend to be general purpose components. But, if you were to do so, I'd suggest the Tilden technique of part removal: Put board in hot oven (Mark: what temp.? Anyone? melting pt. of solder) until the solder melts, then take it out with vise grips (or something equally safe), turn over and bang gently on the floor. Mark apparently didn't use any sort of backstop and ended up having to do this process all over his rug to get an even pattern . I'd suggest pressed board or plywood or something covered with aluminium (for you British spellers) foil. Z $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.005A7243; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:27:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA09347 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:16:23 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29037 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:40:44 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA25944 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id JAA22182 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:40:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970812080050.00673130@ix.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:41:09 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Sunflowers (was: Re: Speed Control) SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Sunflowers (was: Re: Speed Control) PostedDate: 08/12/97 08:41:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 09:28:03 AM-08/12/97 09:28:05 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 09:28:05 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 6:00 PM +1000 8/12/97, Andrew Vaughan wrote: >At 02:16 12/08/97 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >>yeah.. i figure each 'leaf' would have its own lil batch of >>photoresistors to tell it what angle to turn.. that way rather then >>trying to compute it all from a central point for all leaves.. the >>sensing unit's job would be to bring the leaf back to center on the >>light.. since when you move the sensor with the leaf.. it would self >>calibrate.. Hokay, folx, yet another boring lesson. Also known as my interpretation of what Mark Tilden does sometimes. Most of you are familiar with the quadcore and the microcore -- simple loops of Nv elements. However, one of the most interesting and nearly simplest Nv circuits you can make is a bicore. The bicore has two active elements (the inverters), and four passive elements (the two capacitors and resistors, respectively.) Very generally speaking, when one of the inverters is on, the other is off so the oscillation chases itself around yin-yan style. One tends to draw this device as a diamond (or square on its corner) where opposing sides are either capacitors or inverters. But Wait! With two you get the Ginsu knives for Free! Actually, what one might quickly notice is that both of the resistors connect to ground. In a sense, then, they connect to each other. If they -only- connected to each other and not to ground, one would have a floating ground at the connection point. Ignoring that for a moment, one could replace both resistors with a single one and gosh! the circuit keeps on oscillating. Given two equal valued capacitors, the resistor determines the frequency of oscillation, or if a single motor is connected -to-the-outputs- of the two inverters (wheatstone bridge-wise), the width/depth of the motor's swing. If everything is perfectly balanced (and it never is) then the swing would be perfectly symmetrical, i.e. the motor would never turn all the way around. Here comes the cute part: lets say that we want to track a source of light, something similar to the leaves described above. Well, first off, it is easy enough to replace the resistor that has the mythical floating ground in it somewhere with two back-to-back IR photodetectors. In dark, both will be off and so the swing will be quite large. Maybe. In light, both will be on so the swing will be quite small. And possibly destructive. If one has somewhat more light than the other, then the current path when it 'goes' that direction encounters less resistance (and we are basically ignoring the active resistance of a forward biased diode as being negligible.) Arranging the to IR photodetectors properly to the shaft of the motor gives something that rather directly tracks light. Now, the things I've left out are : what about a shunt resistor across the two photodiodes so that there is a reasonably low value of resistance in full dark, how about a series resistor to avoid the difficulty of nearly no resistance when both photodiodes are in bright light, etc, ad nauseum. But it is a way to fairly easily produce phototropic effects. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.005CBF0D; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:53:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA09501 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:41:37 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29225 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:03:17 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup24.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.243]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA06901; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:17:07 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970812115928.00946780@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:59:28 -0400 To: dwhall@ksu.edu, beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal In-Reply-To: <199708121455.JAA19699@abc> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/12/97 08:59:28 AM SendTo: dwhall@ksu.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 09:53:05 AM-08/12/97 09:53:06 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 09:53:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dean and all... >I shouldn't have mentioned redundancy, that wasn't my issue. >Avoiding singularity was. I guess it depends on how you view a bus. The body of a bot could be viewed as a bus, where it all comes together. even without a bus, there is issue of a bad connection hindering survivability. [redundancy deletia...] >You're right. NvNets are not quite to the point where they need >redundant ICs. Only tilden and a few others have madenets of that magnitude. > >I just want to make sure that NvNet technology isn't confined >to a bus.... >But for the long-term survivability of the species, >I'd recommend not routing all your nervous pathways >through one juncture. are you referring to a weakness of the bus interconnect as the faulty (or possibly faulty point)? i don't think a PCI bus design is necessarily the bus i have been thinking about, since that might have problems... as for enhancing survivability--i would like to ensure that all nervous pathways are distributed as much as possible. it may come to the point that a bus is not the best idea... don't know yet. however, the spinal cord is a bus... one pathway and all. supporting evidence? comments? >ps: this is a *good* discussion, >I hope you still hear my voice as friendly. of course ;) Cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.005D0B23; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:56:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA09530 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:44:52 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29432 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:22:24 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id MzP29252; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:21:04 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. Message-ID: <19970812.115007.7807.6.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-5 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:21:04 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/12/97 09:21:04 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 09:56:19 AM-08/12/97 09:56:20 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 09:56:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:12:09 -0600 "John A. de Vries II" writes: >removal: Put board in hot oven (Mark: what temp.? Anyone? >melting pt. of solder) until the solder melts, then take it out isnt it 170F?its been too long.. ;\ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.005F9A85; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:24:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA09716 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:12:37 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29835 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:55:05 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup24.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.243]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08374 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:11:39 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970812125401.00948610@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:54:01 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. In-Reply-To: <19970812.115007.7807.6.nytwulf@juno.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/12/97 09:54:01 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 10:24:24 AM-08/12/97 10:24:25 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 10:24:25 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:21 PM 8/12/97 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:12:09 -0600 "John A. de Vries II" > writes: >>removal: Put board in hot oven (Mark: what temp.? Anyone? >melting >pt. of solder) until the solder melts, then take it out > >isnt it 170F?its been too long.. ;\ > Depends on the type of solder. But, the melting point of standard 63Sn/37Pb solder is about 183 degrees Celsius. Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0063EB0B; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:11:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA09911 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:58:41 -0700 Received: from host.ott.igs.net (host.ott.igs.net [206.248.16.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30340 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:34:28 -0500 Received: from semicon.semiconductor.com (semicon.semiconductor.com [206.248.18.27]) by host.ott.igs.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA08232 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708121734.NAA08232@host.ott.igs.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:24:00 -0400 From: Thomas Kapler Subject: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) To: BEAM X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50b)/MIME SMTPOriginator: thomas@semiconductor.com From: thomas@semiconductor.com Subject: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/12/97 11:24:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 11:11:31 AM-08/12/97 11:11:33 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 11:11:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Hokay, folx, yet another boring lesson. Also known as my interpretation of > what Mark Tilden does sometimes. Thanks for an extremely helpful description of the biocore. I was at Mike T.'s house the other day and he was showing me some of his 'bots, including the super-fast rechargable roach which I think is build using that idea. My question is regarding the active components in the setup. Does it matter what type of inverter is used? Why? I understand some of the considerations have to do with internal hysteresis, but I'm not sure which chips to use. thanks, Thomas. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.00652A9B; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:25:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09984 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:13:18 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA30431 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:45:35 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:43:00 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 12 Aug 97 10:39:55 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 12 Aug 97 10:39:46 +800 Received: from alan-ws.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 12 Aug 97 10:39:41 +800 X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:45:00 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/12/97 10:45:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 11:25:07 AM-08/12/97 11:25:08 AM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 11:25:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>yeah.. i figure each 'leaf' would have its own lil batch of >>photoresistors to tell it what angle to turn.. that way rather then >>trying to compute it all from a central point for all leaves.. the >>sensing unit's job would be to bring the leaf back to center on the >>light.. since when you move the sensor with the leaf.. it would self >>calibrate.. >maybe. I would have thought just tipping the whole stem over would be >easier. Unless it you found a more efficient way. I'll have to do some >biological research for this one. I think plants do it by moving liquid >around within them One simple way of doing the tilt in the solar array may be to heat/cool a piece of muscle wire to have the array keep pace with the sun. Alan Serl Serl Computer Research aserl@scrnet.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.0068CC4E; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:04:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA10150 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:53:10 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30811 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:25:28 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA28539 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id MAA13037 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:21:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708121734.NAA08232@host.ott.igs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:22:01 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/12/97 11:22:01 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 12:04:45 PM-08/12/97 12:04:46 PM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 12:04:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 2:24 PM -0400 8/12/97, Thomas Kapler wrote: >My question is regarding the active components in the setup. Does it matter >what type of inverter is used? Why? I understand some of the considerations >have to do with internal hysteresis, but I'm not sure which chips to use. You are welcome and: Well, Matt Moses thinks that it make a big difference as to which inverters you are using. Concerning the really fast BEAMAnts, the '240 is being used, even though it does not have any particular hysterisis (.e. it is NOT like a 7414.) On the other hand, I got the impression that some others -won't- work, and it has to do with crosstalk WITHIN the chip itself. I don't honestly know, however. Perhaps Tilden or Moses or one of the small gods has a strong opinion about this... Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.007C471C; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:37:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10982 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:25:47 -0700 Received: from digisys.net (onyx.digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32336 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:53:59 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (modem111.digisys.net [205.138.110.160]) by digisys.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10461 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <33ED9E53.1D7@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 03:56:19 -0700 From: Scott Miller Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: motors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: smontana@digisys.net From: smontana@digisys.net Subject: motors PostedDate: 08/10/97 03:56:19 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 03:37:33 PM-08/12/97 03:37:34 PM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 03:37:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Does anyone know how useful the motors in disk drives and hard drives are? I just got my hands on a laptop and I just was wondering if I should scrap it or keep it. Thanks in advance for any help. -Scott Miller $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.007C47C3; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:37:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10985 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:26:03 -0700 Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net (punt-2b.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA32539 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:15:20 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0709865; 12 Aug 97 22:45 BST Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:33:50 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/12/97 01:33:50 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 03:37:33 PM-08/12/97 03:37:34 PM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 03:37:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article , "John A. de Vries II" writes >At 5:07 PM +1200 8/12/97, David ten Have wrote: >But, if you were to do so, I'd suggest the Tilden technique of part >removal: Put board in hot oven (Mark: what temp.? Anyone? melting pt. of >solder) until the solder melts, then take it out with vise grips (or >something equally safe), turn over and bang gently on the floor. Mark Sounds like fun. I'll have to try this one. -- Bob Mottram "Why robotics? www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Well my parents were always telling me to make new friends." - Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.007E0B8C; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:56:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10743 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:24:44 -0700 Received: from seraph.uunet.ca (uunet.ca [142.77.1.254]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31795 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:38:20 -0500 Received: from jdsfit by seraph.uunet.ca with UUCP id <657169-3053>; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:38:12 -0400 Received: from raven.jdsfitel.com (raven [172.26.66.31]) by pigeon.jdsfitel.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA12058 for <@pigeon.jdsfitel.com:beam@webconn.com@pigeon.jdsfitel.com>; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:18:13 -0400 Received: by raven.jdsfitel.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0147; Tue, 12 Aug 97 16:19:24 -0400 Message-Id: <9708122019.AA0147@raven.jdsfitel.com> Received: from JDS FITEL Inc with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id F5081C1F444CA201852564F1006F5C9E; Tue, 12 Aug 97 16:19:24 To: beam From: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:18:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain SMTPOriginator: jdsfit!Mike_Trecieski@seraph.uunet.ca From: Mike_Trecieski@jdsfitel.com Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/12/97 09:18:29 AM SendTo: jdsfit!webconn.com!beam@gromit.webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 03:56:48 PM-08/12/97 03:56:50 PM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 03:56:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Stick with HC****240 or HCT****240, they work the best and will give you the least troubles. The HCT I believe can push/pullmore current (anybody?) and can work at lower voltages. Mike >what type of inverter is used? Why? I understand some of the considerations >have to do with internal hysteresis, but I'm not sure which chips to use. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F1.007E13D5; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:57:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10778 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:33:51 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31883 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:45:14 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id EAA12418; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:44:52 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA871472875 Wed, 13 Aug 97 04:47:55 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 97 04:47:55 Message-Id: <9707138714.AA871472875@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com, David ten Have Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/12/97 09:47:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,David.ten.Have@vuw.ac.nz $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/12/97 03:57:08 PM-08/12/97 03:57:10 PM DeliveredDate: 08/12/97 03:57:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I too have been removing motors and switches from older disk drives. One component that is worth removing (IMHO) is the stepper motor controller IC. These are worth about $8-15 new, so salvage is a good idea. I found data on the IC's in the 360K drives i had in a '86 Hitachi book. As to the discrete components, they are small (mini solarengine?), and if you are comfortable working with them, by all means. Be aware however that most SMT caps are not marked with their values. Cam. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Salvaging surface mounted components. Author: David ten Have at Supernet Date: 8/12/97 1:41 PM Hi, A number of disc drives have passed my way and at the moment I am taking the microswitches and the motors (I have doubts about the efficency of these things...any general ideas?) from them. One thing I have noticed is that they have squillions of surface mounted compenents...is it worth salvaging these? Cheers dave -------------------------------------- Pay attention to features and performance that can really make a difference to the end user, and never forget that it's dark in the box. --Joseph Palmer, former Director of Hardware Engineering at Be, Incorporated. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.002B27E7; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:51:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA12271 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:39:49 -0700 Received: from hurricane.netspace.net.au (hurricane.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.65]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA02700 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:39:27 -0500 Received: from rukh (dialup-m1-110.Sydney.netspace.net.au [203.12.52.110]) by hurricane.netspace.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08080 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:36:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970813164006.006d0a88@pop.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: wazza@pop.netspace.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:40:06 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Warren Subject: Sorry... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wazza@netspace.net.au From: wazza@netspace.net.au Subject: Sorry... PostedDate: 08/12/97 11:40:06 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 12:51:28 AM-08/13/97 12:51:29 AM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 12:51:29 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I know you are meant to unsubscribe without sending to the server, but I couldnt figure out how..... So please unsubscribe me, and have fun :) Warren $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.002F9CCF; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:40:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA12292 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:28:09 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03153 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 02:49:35 -0500 Received: from tink (m058.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.193]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23354; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:44:58 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970813075137.006a7ba0@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:51:37 +1000 To: Alan Serl From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/13/97 12:51:37 AM SendTo: aserl@scrnet.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 01:40:14 AM-08/13/97 01:40:15 AM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 01:40:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:45 12/08/97 -0700, Alan Serl wrote: >>>yeah.. i figure each 'leaf' would have its own lil batch of >>>photoresistors to tell it what angle to turn.. that way rather then >>>trying to compute it all from a central point for all leaves.. the >>>sensing unit's job would be to bring the leaf back to center on the >>>light.. since when you move the sensor with the leaf.. it would self >>>calibrate.. > >>maybe. I would have thought just tipping the whole stem over would be >>easier. Unless it you found a more efficient way. I'll have to do some >>biological research for this one. I think plants do it by moving liquid >>around within them > > >One simple way of doing the tilt in the solar array may be to heat/cool a >piece of muscle wire to have the array keep pace with the sun. that was the conclusion/answer I was coming to Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) r--- !y+(**) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Why robotics? Well my parents were always telling me to make new friends" -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.0031B89C; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 02:03:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA12299 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:51:33 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03151 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 02:49:28 -0500 Received: from tink (m058.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.193]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23357 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:45:11 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970813075139.006a9b34@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:51:39 +1000 To: beam@webconn.com From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/13/97 12:51:39 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 02:03:12 AM-08/13/97 02:03:14 AM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 02:03:14 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:15 12/08/97 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >>I'm guessing that wouldn't be to efficient though. Either a >dedicated >RF transmitter or an infra red LED would be better. Even >an ultrasonic >transducer. perhaps even a magnetic field > >well its range is better then most magnetic fields if seen.. its cheeper >then any ultrasonic transducers ive found,. and i didnt think of using >anything else yet =] yes, but my point was that an accidental side-effect isn't as efficient as a device specifically for that purpose actually, its led me to another idea. Hands up all those people who've made crystal set radios before. Anyway, these radios generally have no power source of their own. The energy to work the headphone comes from the energy transmitted. This energy is only that particular part of the spectrum. Wouldn't it be possible to build an antenna-ish thing to collect stray RF signals and use that energy to work? > >>>dont worry.. i can come up with some severly demented ideas..=] >>glad to see there are other creative people out there too :) > >*bows* =] I've just discovered MORE creative people... carmageddon :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) r--- !y+(**) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Why robotics? Well my parents were always telling me to make new friends" -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.0051273B; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:46:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA12746 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:34:23 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05286 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:15:43 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29733 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708131416.KAA29733@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp5.buffnet.net(205.246.19.112) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma005836; Wed, 13 Aug 97 10:14:14 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Cloudy Days. Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:07:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Cloudy Days. PostedDate: 08/13/97 08:07:45 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 07:46:36 AM-08/13/97 07:46:37 AM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 07:46:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Today where I am it's really cloudy. I wonder what a BEAM robot is to do on these days. It's so dark the cap would never charge. The little robots die, then are rencarnated the next time a light goes on. A recharger station sure would be a plus. And for a small battery, BGMicro is selling small nicad button cells! Dennison $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.00515B27; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:48:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA12752 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:36:59 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05234 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:11:40 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29651 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708131411.KAA29651@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp5.buffnet.net(205.246.19.112) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma005069; Wed, 13 Aug 97 10:10:17 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Diode for 1Fard Cap Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:03:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Diode for 1Fard Cap PostedDate: 08/13/97 08:03:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 07:48:49 AM-08/13/97 07:48:49 AM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 07:48:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US What sort of diode would I use so my solar Engin Charges my 1.2 Fard cap until it is full? I'm using a FLED right now and I don't think it's quite the same thing. It still triggers, but not at any longer interval. Dennison Would mabey I put some switching diodes such as 1N914 (?) in seris? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.006D8B82; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:56:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA14170 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:44:58 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06853 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:00:17 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA29808 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09537; Wed, 13 Aug 97 12:59:34 MDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:02:59 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: WARNING: Removal of chips from old boards. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: WARNING: Removal of chips from old boards. PostedDate: 08/13/97 01:02:59 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 12:56:33 PM-08/13/97 12:56:34 PM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 12:56:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi. I'd just like to point out that removing chips from boards is NOT a recommended practice if you don't know what you're doing. Do NOT put them in your oven as the danger of noxious gasses and fire from the plexiboard is very high. Yes, I did it as a kid, but I was both stupid and desperate for parts. I can take no responsibility for any damage to you, yours, or anybodies if you don't take the appropriate precautions. To get an idea of how best to do it, after an *outdoor* barbequeue when the coals are hot but not flaming, hold a board by the edges using a pair of vice-grips with the component side up at a height of 8 inches over the coals while ANGLING THE BOARD AWAY FROM YOU. This will deflect much of the radiant heat from searing your fingers and melting your chesthair. Never put the board flat on the grill as that's a sure way to let it catch fire and ruin your grill with nasty lead deposits. You have to put the b oard in a flow of radiant hot air. When the air stops (by placing it flat), the heat builds up and flashover is the result. After about 2 min or so, you'll see and hear (pop, snk!) the solder start to melt. If the board starts to bend or smoke, then raise it an inch or so as you're giving it too much heat. Don't breathe the smoke (if any) as it gives a rather unpleasant buzz and long-term lung damage. Be sure of your ventilation! Now that the solder is melted, while still holding it over or near the heat, you can try two ways of removing components. If the pins are folded over, then a long thin screwdriver and needlenose plyers will be necessary to pry up one edge of and remove the components. Take them out one by one and put them in a ceramic bowl to cool down slowly. If you drop them in water or somesuch, they will crack and die. Slow cooling insures a better chance they'll be useful. Be very careful not to lean your fingers on the board or you'll have a nasty bus-style burn mark. Also I'd recommend you don't wear gloves as they tend to absorb heat to the point where you realize your fingers are burning in a trapped space. Very nasty. On the other hand, clean safety goggles are recommended to keep flying bits of solder away. If the pins are straight or you're working with an surface-mount board, you can just tap the hot board onto a concrete surface and the components will usually just drop off. Be careful as a lot of solder will also fall, so do this only on surfaces which you can clean or dispose of easily (newspaper works). Much better usually to remove the components individually with plyers as this also limits the amount of solder blobs left on component pins. Once your board is empty enough, you can splash water on it, cool it down, and dispose of in an environmentally friendly way. DON'T BREATHE THE STEAM for reasons of etc. And there you are. Faster, cheaper and cleaner than taking a butane torch to the parts. After a few boards, you'll also develop a knack of heating the board just enough so that you can even remove quality plastic sockets without damage, and farther along, you'll learn how to heat a board, remove several components, put in replacements and let the board cool back to service. Repaired a good number of powerbooks and disk-drives this way. Mass-Component removal is a skill that can save you a lot of money in the short run, but please be damn careful. Again, I take no responsibility for problems caused by this advice. Good luck. Thanks. markt. ReturnReceipt: 0 $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F2.007B8436; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:29:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14997 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:17:30 -0700 Received: from xochi.tezcat.com (xochi.tezcat.com [204.128.247.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08071 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:52:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (rnortman@localhost) by xochi.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id QAA25388 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:51:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:51:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "R. Nortman" Reply-To: "R. Nortman" To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Pager motor info Message-ID: Return-Receipt-To: rnortman@tezcat.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: rnortman@tezcat.com From: rnortman@tezcat.com Subject: Pager motor info PostedDate: 08/13/97 02:51:51 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: rnortman@tezcat.com RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/13/97 03:29:19 PM-08/13/97 03:29:19 PM DeliveredDate: 08/13/97 03:29:19 PM Categories: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US First off, since this is my first post to this list, let me just say, "Hi!" OK, so I'm curious about the physical characteristics of the Namiki pager motors being sold by Solarbotics, and I'm sure lots of people here have worked with these motors a lot. From what I can see from the pictures of the Photopopper and other sollarollers, it seems that some kind of high-friction material (like a bit of rubber tubing) is being put on the motor shaft and that serves as the wheels. I'd like to put larger wheels on them, like around 1.5" diameter. (I want my bot to be a little more all-terrain, able to run over carpet and small obstacles like a sock on the floor.) So I need to know what the shaft looks like. I'll be building a large bot by the standards of this group, maybe up to 2 pounds, so I'll probably need some gear reduction, too, to get down to about 20 RPM with decent power. (What's the no-load RPM of these things at about 5V, incidently?) If I can get enough power without the gear reduction by using pulse-width modulation, great! Mechanical simplicity is a big plus for me! I'm pretty inexperienced with stuff like this, and getting from motor to gears to wheel is really worrying me. Well, for one, I need to find some appropriate gears. I don't want to build the gearbox by myself, since that would require precise fabrication, which I don't trust myself to do. I've seen mention of using oven timers as gearboxes -- would this be appropriate and where can they be found? Any tips at all would be greatly appreciated! Oh, and while I'm begging for tips, what tools should I buy? I'm just getting into robotics, and I have no tools. I'm thinking a Dremel hobby tool would be a good idea, and a hacksaw too. And, obviously, a soldering iron and multimeter. Recommendations of brands, specs, etc, would be great. I'm willing to spend a good deal on tools ($150 US or even a little more) if they're going to last and be useful. When I get a working mechanical base (motors, gears, and wheels mounted on "something" controlled by a couple of DPDT switches on a tether), I'll be back to beg for sensor and circuitry help. =) Oh yeah, one last thing, are the prices on www.solarbotics.com listed in US or Canadian dollars? (I'm crossing my fingers for Canadian, of course! ;-> OK, even in US dollars, they're pretty good prices.) Thanks in advance! Randy Nortman rnortman@tezcat.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.0026A701; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:02:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15700 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:50:35 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA11539 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:44:48 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wyteG-0000wi-00; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:44:44 -0400 Received: from ts33-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts33-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.164]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA03772 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708140644.CAA03772@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 02:23:32 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Pager motor info SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Pager motor info PostedDate: 08/13/97 11:23:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 12:02:14 AM-08/14/97 12:02:15 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 12:02:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:51 PM 8/13/97 -0500, "R. Nortman" wrote: > >First off, since this is my first post to this list, let me just say, >"Hi!" "Hi!", yourself, and welcome :-) > >OK, so I'm curious about the physical characteristics of the Namiki >pager motors being sold by Solarbotics, and I'm sure lots of people I think the dimensions are on the website. >here have worked with these motors a lot. From what I can see from >the pictures of the Photopopper and other sollarollers, it seems that >some kind of high-friction material (like a bit of rubber tubing) is >being put on the motor shaft and that serves as the wheels. I'd like Yep, heat-shrink tubing, or wire insulation or a glob of glue. . . whatever works for you. >to put larger wheels on them, like around 1.5" diameter. (I want my >bot to be a little more all-terrain, able to run over carpet and small >obstacles like a sock on the floor.) Negotiating a sock on the floor . . . have you been looking around _my_ lab?!?!?! > >So I need to know what the shaft looks like. I'll be building a large Ummm, 1.5mm diameter, 5mm long? some older ones are 1.0mm and some others are 0.7mm . . >bot by the standards of this group, maybe up to 2 pounds, so I'll >probably need some gear reduction, too, to get down to about 20 RPM >with decent power. (What's the no-load RPM of these things at about >5V, incidently?) If I can get enough power without the gear reduction >by using pulse-width modulation, great! Mechanical simplicity is a >big plus for me! 15000 RPM, as I recall, or in that range. Repeat after me: "I will need gears". There. Also, mind the voltage; they're only rated for 1.5 Volts. Don't want to burn-out the little beasties! > >I'm pretty inexperienced with stuff like this, and getting from motor >to gears to wheel is really worrying me. Well, for one, I need to >find some appropriate gears. I don't want to build the gearbox by >myself, since that would require precise fabrication, which I don't >trust myself to do. I've seen mention of using oven timers as >gearboxes -- would this be appropriate and where can they be found? >Any tips at all would be greatly appreciated! Ah, yes. The perennial quest for the ultimate gearbox. Well, Dave is working on a document describing the oven timer modifi- cations, also I'll post something (rough) that I typed-up recently. Sadly, my local source for these guys has dried up, so I have only a few left. > >Oh, and while I'm begging for tips, what tools should I buy? I'm just >getting into robotics, and I have no tools. I'm thinking a Dremel >hobby tool would be a good idea, and a hacksaw too. And, obviously, a >soldering iron and multimeter. Recommendations of brands, specs, etc, >would be great. I'm willing to spend a good deal on tools ($150 US or >even a little more) if they're going to last and be useful. [entire list groans anticipating Richard's Rant on safety] Well, start with safety glasses. Wear them every time. A wire end can go a long way when snipped. Solder can spatter when heated. (And there's all those people throwing things at me.) So, get the glasses, with the side shields. Or a full face shield if that suits you. You can make a bunch of mistakes with tools. It costs less to make a boo-boo with a cheap pair of pliers, as they are cheaper to replace; unfortunately, it can take a smaller mistake to ruin a cheaper pair of pliers. . . Tool selection is the easiest mistake to make. The 'wrong sized' screwdriver will make a mess of the screw. And most people use anything from the toolbox as a 'hammer.' Bad. Some tools are worth spending to get the best, others are not; and the difference is in how you use them! It really is a matter of preference. Now I have seen some phenomen- ally _bad_ cheap tools at swap-meets / flea markets, ummm. . . don't even think about it. Eventually I will post a picture of a screwdriver-bit that broke _in half_ the first time I used it. It will take me a while to post because we will have to wait for it to pass through the system of the guy that was trying to sell it as "top quality - name brand" ;-) At the other end of the spectrum, I use wooden spring type clothes pegs as general purpose clamps for small parts. They're so cheap; they're almost free! This said, what will you use? A partial list follows: [small stuff - up to 6" size] - small needlenose pliers - small side cutting pliers - 'jewellers' screwdrivers (those are the small ones; usually chromed with black shafts) - small socket wrench set (metric and Imperial) - 'needle' files for metal - vise (to match your bench, some have suction cups) [medium stuff - 6" to 10" - depends on your hands] - medium side cutters - 'lineman's' pliers - medium needlenose pliers - assorted screwdivers (maybe one with interchangeable bits?) - high-speed rotary tool (no commercial endorsement here :-) BUT WEAR THE GOGGLES! - ALWAYS!!!) - low wattage soldering iron, or station. - solder w/ water soluble flux Now, that's just a start. Maybe we can play another round of "list the stuff that's on your bench. . .", it has been a few months. Oh! Sorry about your budget. Let's hear what the others think. Tools are very personal. > >When I get a working mechanical base (motors, gears, and wheels >mounted on "something" controlled by a couple of DPDT switches on a >tether), I'll be back to beg for sensor and circuitry help. =) Don't just disappear until then. Keep us up-to-date. > >Oh yeah, one last thing, are the prices on www.solarbotics.com listed >in US or Canadian dollars? (I'm crossing my fingers for Canadian, of >course! ;-> OK, even in US dollars, they're pretty good prices.) > >Thanks in advance! > >Randy Nortman >rnortman@tezcat.com > > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.002BB6D6; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:57:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15503 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:22:44 -0700 Received: from ozemail.com.au (server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10503 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:59:47 -0500 Received: from goofy (slsyd3p40.ozemail.com.au [203.7.189.128]) by ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA08435; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:59:10 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970814115208.009244b0@mail.ozemail.com.au> X-Sender: daverobo@mail.ozemail.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:52:08 +1000 To: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc From: David Robinson Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <9708122019.AA0147@raven.jdsfitel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: daverobo@npr.com.au From: daverobo@npr.com.au Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/13/97 06:52:08 PM SendTo: Mike_Trecieski@jdsfitel.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 12:57:38 AM-08/14/97 12:57:39 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 12:57:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Gidday Mike, I understand that the 74HCT series is CMOS (ie, low voltage) but designed to replace the traditional 74xx, 74LSxx TTL series (ie, TTL drive currents - 20mA?). David. At 12:18 12/08/97 -0400, you wrote: >Stick with HC****240 or HCT****240, they work the best and will give you the >least troubles. >The HCT I believe can push/pullmore current (anybody?) and can work at lower >voltages. > >Mike $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.002BBF57; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:57:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA15417 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:09:52 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09891 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:58:51 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WjL14025; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:57:26 EDT To: bbush@xtdl.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. Message-ID: <19970813.222710.7807.2.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:57:26 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Salvaging surface mounted components. PostedDate: 08/13/97 07:57:26 PM SendTo: bbush@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 12:58:05 AM-08/14/97 12:58:08 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 12:58:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:54:01 -0400 "Brian O. Bush" writes: >>isnt it 170F?its been too long.. ;\ >Depends on the type of solder. But, the melting point of standard >63Sn/37Pb solder is about 183 degrees Celsius. *cough* well either my teacher was evil or its been longer then i thought... hehe $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.002BBFC5; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:57:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA15422 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:11:20 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09896 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:59:06 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WjN14025; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:57:26 EDT To: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970813.222710.7807.4.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <9707138714.AA871474069@vtech.com.hk> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-5,9 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:57:26 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/13/97 07:57:26 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 12:58:06 AM-08/14/97 12:58:08 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 12:58:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 13 Aug 97 05:07:48 cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk writes: >>i also discovered (accidently) that tv remotes and such brodcast >>an AM radio pulse over the whole band.. > What kind of TV remote, and how old was it? Almost all >remotes now are IR... it was an i.r. remote... maybe 3 years old.. my cable remote worked too.. tho the autible pattern was a bit faster i think.. i think either the circut for the remote made the AM noise.. or the IR bled into the AM range.. try it yourself and see... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.004CEC10; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:00:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA16081 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:48:38 -0700 Received: from ns.wavefront.com (ns.wavefront.com [204.73.244.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13370 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:17:34 -0500 Received: from raphael.ddb.com by ns.wavefront.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1.R931202) id IAA07199; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:17:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199708141317.IAA07199@ns.wavefront.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Raphael Carter" Organization: Dept. of Exolinguistics and Misanthropology To: beam@webconn.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:19:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) Reply-to: raphael@wavefront.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9708122019.AA0147@raven.jdsfitel.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) SMTPOriginator: raphael@wavefront.com From: raphael@wavefront.com Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/14/97 06:19:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: raphael@wavefront.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 07:00:16 AM-08/14/97 07:00:17 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 07:00:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > The HCT I believe can push/pullmore current (anybody?) and can work at lower > voltages. Can you also use 74HCT14s in walker microcores instead of 74C14? Any special issues involved in doing so? (They're the only flavor of 74n14 that Radio Shack seems to sell.) Oh, and thanks to everyone for guidance on photovore whiskers. The store didn't have piano wire, but I found some 22-gauge galvanized wire that worked just fine. -- Raphael $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.004E173F; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:12:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA16136 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:01:32 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13520 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:42:44 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup06.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.225]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05840; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:59:22 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970813214053.00940940@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:40:53 -0400 To: raphael@wavefront.com, beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) In-Reply-To: <199708141317.IAA07199@ns.wavefront.com> References: <9708122019.AA0147@raven.jdsfitel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/13/97 06:40:53 PM SendTo: raphael@wavefront.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 07:13:01 AM-08/14/97 07:13:02 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 07:13:02 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:19 AM 8/14/97 -0500, Raphael Carter wrote: >> The HCT I believe can push/pullmore current (anybody?) and can work at lower >> voltages. > >Can you also use 74HCT14s in walker microcores instead of 74C14? Any >special issues involved in doing so? (They're the only flavor of >74n14 that Radio Shack seems to sell.) Raphael.... See the BEAM Tek page at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html specifically under the NvNet solar section which lists some chip specs: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html#NvSolar Cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.00621FB8; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:51:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA17015 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:40:01 -0700 From: RoadKil78@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15050 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:29:35 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA06921 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970814132536_1712933506@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Me New! SMTPOriginator: RoadKil78@aol.com From: RoadKil78@aol.com Subject: Me New! PostedDate: 08/14/97 10:29:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 10:51:56 AM-08/14/97 10:51:57 AM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 10:51:57 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello All! I am as you can see new here on the list. As far as I can see I am probably the youngest person the list (still not sure). I wana get some info, so please send me as much as you can. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.006A2736; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:19:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA17443 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:07:47 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15636 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:49:54 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA01460 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id MAA11797 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:49:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708140644.CAA03772@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:50:19 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Safety (was: Re: Pager motor info) SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Safety (was: Re: Pager motor info) PostedDate: 08/14/97 11:50:19 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 12:19:33 PM-08/14/97 12:19:34 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 12:19:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 2:23 AM -0400 8/14/97, Richard Weait wrote: > [entire list groans anticipating Richard's Rant on safety] > Well, start with safety glasses. Wear them every time. A wire >end can go a long way when snipped. Solder can spatter when >heated. (And there's all those people throwing things at me.) >So, get the glasses, with the side shields. Or a full face shield >if that suits you. Safety is a very important thing. Having the minimum of safety equipment, like safety glasses, may well save you even when your attitude isn't very much aligned to being safe. On the other hand (if you'll pardon the pun) it wouldn't have helped me the time I dropped my soldering iron. I figured that I didn't dare burn the carpet with the iron, so I grabbed for it. Unfortunately, I caught it. Sigh. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.006EE2A3; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:11:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA17627 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:59:37 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15947 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:33:39 -0500 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00773 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:33:31 -0500 Received: from [10.0.2.15] (nica@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02096 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: nica@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:30:23 -0800 To: beam@webconn.com From: nica@eskimo.com (Monica Stewart) Subject: My Education SMTPOriginator: nica@eskimo.com From: nica@eskimo.com Subject: My Education PostedDate: 08/14/97 01:30:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 01:11:16 PM-08/14/97 01:11:17 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 01:11:17 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've recently become truly infatuated with robots. I'm very intent on making the critters. Just made a solarengine recently. I'm sure I'll have a solar roller going soon. And I have many bizarre future plans, as I'm sure most of you do. What I want is a little advice as to whether I should go back to school to study electrical engineering. I have a B.Sci in Mathematics. I have spent my post-college years doing a variety of stupid jobs. Now I work in a small company's production area where I've become very comfortable working with my hands on a variety of machines (mostly large however) and have access to quite a few tools that might be useful for making robot bodies. I've been working my way through Horowitz & Hayes, The Art of Electronics, and have found that electronics seems to be something you can learn from a book. I've been tinkering on a breadboard lots, and can't help but think that investing in an oscillascope, and other goodies might be better for me than spending money on tuition. Here in Seattle there is the Seattle Robotics Society which I gather is a pretty good club for robot enthusiasts. It seems I have lots of resources outside of school. I've asked some on my friends what they think, but most of them just think I'm being a little goofy. And Seattle have something of a software bias, so they usually say that I should bone down on C++ and Java if I really want to get ahead. But I just want to get good a building robots. At the same time I worry that self-directed study could make my knowledge too uneven. I won't know what I don't know, so I won't study it. I bet some of you have opinions. You may want to respond to me at my email address if that would seem more appropriate. I hope this isn't too off topic. *********************************************************** // Pain drips -Sappho // *********************************************************** Monica Stewart nica@eskimo.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.0074A206; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:13:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17972 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:02:31 -0700 From: MikeL2727@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17450 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:45:45 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA23133 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970814164450_1747089218@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: unsubscribe SMTPOriginator: MikeL2727@aol.com From: MikeL2727@aol.com Subject: unsubscribe PostedDate: 08/14/97 01:45:19 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 02:14:02 PM-08/14/97 02:14:03 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 02:14:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US unsubscribe $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.007880E9; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:56:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA18193 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:44:43 -0700 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net (relay-13.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.137]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17681 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:18:49 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1019589; 14 Aug 97 22:14 BST Message-ID: <2P5ooOAD828zEwzM@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:48:03 +0100 To: Beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: WARNING: Removal of chips from old boards. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: WARNING: Removal of chips from old boards. PostedDate: 08/14/97 01:48:03 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 02:56:24 PM-08/14/97 02:56:25 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 02:56:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In article , "Mark W. Tilden" writes >To get an idea of how best to do it, after an *outdoor* barbequeue when the >coals are hot but not flaming, hold a board by the edges using a pair of >vice-grips with the component side up at a height of 8 inches over the >coals while ANGLING THE BOARD AWAY FROM YOU. This will deflect much of the >radiant heat from searing your fingers and melting your chesthair. Never >put the board flat on the grill as that's a sure way to let it catch fire >and ruin your grill with nasty lead deposits. You have to put the board in >a flow of radiant hot air. When the air stops (by placing it flat), the >heat builds up and flashover is the result. Wow. This sounds quite intrepid. Maybe BEAM robotics should be classified as a 'dangerous sport' along with hang-gliding and bungee jumping :) -- Bob Mottram "Consciousness: that annoying time between naps" www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.007C4934; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:37:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18403 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:24:50 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18000 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:02:41 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wz7yR-0000Sl-00; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:02:31 -0400 Received: from ts37-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts37-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.97]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA10035 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708142202.SAA10035@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:41:13 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: My Education SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/14/97 02:41:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 03:37:35 PM-08/14/97 03:37:35 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 03:37:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:30 PM 8/14/97 -0800, nica@eskimo.com (Monica Stewart) wrote: > >I've recently become truly infatuated with robots. I'm very intent on >making the critters. Just made a solarengine recently. I'm sure I'll have a >solar roller going soon. And I have many bizarre future plans, as I'm sure >most of you do. Well, . . . yeah, but let's keep to the robot topic :-) > >What I want is a little advice as to whether I should go back to school to >study electrical engineering. I have a B.Sci in Mathematics. I have spent Okay, go back to school _for what_? Do you have a specific employment goal that needs a B.Sci(math) and E.E.? From your first paragraph (above) I infer that you just "wanna build 'em." We've got tons of people under the age of majority "building 'em" And many of those are on this list (and maybe even reading this thread :-) ) No fancy "book lernin' " required. If you "wanna build 'em", _and_ get paid for it, well, get in line. Lots of us think that would be cool. If you're going back to school anyways, might as well take something you are interested in. >my post-college years doing a variety of stupid jobs. Now I work in a small >company's production area where I've become very comfortable working with >my hands on a variety of machines (mostly large however) and have access to Cool! What sort of machines? If you can use them for your 'hobby' it will save you a _ton_ of money. You'll be able to do stuff that few hobbiests can consider, with the right tools. >quite a few tools that might be useful for making robot bodies. I've been >working my way through Horowitz & Hayes, The Art of Electronics, and have I think you mean "Horowitz & Hill", and it is great. [guilty nerd confession: I had 'AoE' in the car with me this week so I could read it during lunch. ] Mr. Hill contributes to the sci.electronics.design newsgroup on a regular basis, read everything he writes! >found that electronics seems to be something you can learn from a book. >I've been tinkering on a breadboard lots, and can't help but think that You'll learn more on the breadboard. In combination with the book, you'll do really well. >investing in an oscillascope, and other goodies might be better for me than >spending money on tuition. Here in Seattle there is the Seattle Robotics >Society which I gather is a pretty good club for robot enthusiasts. It >seems I have lots of resources outside of school. I am jealous of your access to the SRS. I would love to attend one of their meetings; just gotta make it to that part of the world. > >I've asked some on my friends what they think, but most of them just think >I'm being a little goofy. And Seattle have something of a software bias, so >they usually say that I should bone down on C++ and Java if I really want >to get ahead. You ". . .don't need no stinking processors!" > >But I just want to get good a building robots. Learn by doing. Finish making your Solar Engine into a SolarRoller. Watching it twitch is okay, but having to dive headlong trying to catch it as it plummets to the floor has no match. :-) > >At the same time I worry that self-directed study could make my knowledge >too uneven. I won't know what I don't know, so I won't study it. Your 'next project' will tell you what you don't know. At least that's the way it works for me. If I know what my goal is (faster SolarRoller) and I know the basics (more efficiency, less mass) then I have two approaches. Now if I decide that learning the right way to use a milling machine will result in a lighter frame . . . You'll also learn _tons_ by looking at other people's work. Go to the SRS meetings; go to the Western Canadian Robot Games; go to . . . > >I bet some of you have opinions. You may want to respond to me at my email >address if that would seem more appropriate. > >I hope this isn't too off topic. No way, this is too good a topic to keep secret! > > > *********************************************************** > // Pain drips -Sappho // > *********************************************************** > Monica Stewart nica@eskimo.com > > > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.007CAA78; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:41:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18410 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:28:57 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18003 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:02:46 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wz7yY-0000Ss-00; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:02:38 -0400 Received: from ts37-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts37-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.97]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA10075 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708142202.SAA10075@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:41:21 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Me New! SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Me New! PostedDate: 08/14/97 02:41:21 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 03:41:50 PM-08/14/97 03:41:50 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 03:41:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:29 PM 8/14/97 -0400, RoadKil78@aol.com wrote: >Hello All! I am as you can see new here on the list. As far as I can see I am >probably the youngest person the list (still not sure). I wana get some info, >so please send me as much as you can. > > > Hi "RoadKil78@aol.com" Well, as you are new, and young, I will be nice. There are many helpful people on this mailing list, and some of them spend a great deal of time in composing answers to the questions that they read. I usually put as much effort into responding as I see put into the question. Your request for information (above) is a bit vague, so I will start by giving you some internet URL's for some places to read-up on the robots we generally discuss on this list. There really is a lot of good beginner-stuff out there. If you find a project that interests you, and you run into a 'sticky spot' then let us know about it; someone on the list will have had a similar problem. [begin periodic posting] As with anything on the internet, a good place to start is the archives. Many newsgroups, mailing-lists, websites, etc. have what is called "FAQ" for Frequently Asked Questions. The "FAQ" is the place to look when you don't know where to look. Most newsgroups have their FAQ available by FTP at: rtfm.mit.edu You can find out how to use this in any beginners internet book. Good starting points for this specific topic, BEAM robotics, are the following: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html http://www.golden.net/~amiller http://www.solarbotics.com http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html There is a _ton_ of good beginner material on these sites. It may take you some time to wade through it all. [end periodic posting] Cheers, and welcome. Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.008270D2; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:44:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18657 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:33:04 -0700 Received: from ozemail.com.au (server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18613 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:17:19 -0500 Received: from goofy (slsyd11p19.ozemail.com.au [203.108.4.107]) by ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA27118; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:17:04 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970815091818.0092db80@mail.ozemail.com.au> X-Sender: daverobo@mail.ozemail.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:18:18 +1000 To: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc From: David Robinson Subject: Re: Biocore (2) Cc: beam@webconn.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: daverobo@npr.com.au From: daverobo@npr.com.au Subject: Re: Biocore (2) PostedDate: 08/14/97 04:18:18 PM SendTo: Mike_Trecieski@jdsfitel.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 04:44:56 PM-08/14/97 04:44:57 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 04:44:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Gidday Mike, Further to my previous posting, check out http://www.ideal.net.au/chipdir/ttl.htm This is from the Australian mirror of the Chipdir archive. David. At 12:18 12/08/97 -0400, you wrote: >Stick with HC****240 or HCT****240, they work the best and will give you the >least troubles. >The HCT I believe can push/pullmore current (anybody?) and can work at lower >voltages. > >Mike $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.00837BBD; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:56:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18709 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:44:39 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18763 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:37:42 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TZR01961; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:35:44 EDT To: dennlill@buffnet.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Cloudy Days. Message-ID: <19970814.190333.7807.4.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199708131416.KAA29733@buffnet4.buffnet.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,4-5,7-13,15 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:35:44 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Cloudy Days. PostedDate: 08/14/97 04:35:44 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 04:56:20 PM-08/14/97 04:56:21 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 04:56:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:07:45 -0500 Dennlill writes: >Today where I am it's really cloudy. I wonder what a BEAM robot is >to do on these days. It's so dark the cap would never charge. The >little robots die, then are rencarnated the next time a light goes >on. well i would call it closer to hybernation then death... but that's just my idea.. >A recharger station sure would be a plus. And for a small battery, >BGMicro is selling small nicad button cells! how much juice do those usualy hold? yeah.. the charger station(s) could hold the power till its really neaded.. like when the bot cant get enough on its own.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F3.0083B74A; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:58:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18735 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:47:13 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18767 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:37:59 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TZQ01961; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:35:43 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970814.190333.7807.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970813075139.006a9b34@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,7-8,13-16,18-19,22-28 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:35:43 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/14/97 04:35:43 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 04:58:53 PM-08/14/97 04:58:55 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 04:58:55 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:51:39 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >yes, but my point was that an accidental side-effect isn't as >efficient as a device specifically for that purpose yes i see your point.. tho im not sure exactly what part of the remote causes the signal.. perhaps if we found that out we could make that the only part of that circut that operates... >actually, its led me to another idea. Hands up all those people >who've made crystal set radios before. Anyway, these radios >generally have no power source of their own. The energy to work >the headphone comes from the energy transmitted. This energy is >only that particular part of the spectrum. well ill only put one had up.. i have the kit but its not finished.. `\o >Wouldn't it be possible to build an antenna-ish thing to collect >stray RF signals and use that energy to work? it sould work.. it could be used then amplified to the motor control in some way.. but yes it wouldnt need any more power then any other sensor... >>*bows* =] >I've just discovered MORE creative people... carmageddon :) hehe being MORE creative or more ppl that are somewhat creative? :P either way ill try and take it as a compliment... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00174380; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:14:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19260 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:02:34 -0700 Received: from ns1.ix.net.au (ns1.ix.net.au [203.33.239.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20217 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:39:56 -0500 Received: from andrewvo (m017.dialup.ix.net.au [203.76.2.234]) by ns1.ix.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19927; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:34:45 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970815034119.006ab278@ix.net.au> X-Sender: tink@ix.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:41:19 +1000 To: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) From: Andrew Vaughan Subject: Re: Speed Control Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: tink@ix.net.au From: tink@ix.net.au Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/14/97 08:41:19 PM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 09:14:13 PM-08/14/97 09:14:14 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 09:14:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 19:35 14/08/97 EDT, Nyt wulf wrote: >On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:51:39 +1000 Andrew Vaughan >writes: >>yes, but my point was that an accidental side-effect isn't as >>efficient as a device specifically for that purpose > >yes i see your point.. tho im not sure exactly what part of the remote >causes the signal.. perhaps if we found that out we could make that the >only part of that circut that operates... or build an RF transmitter from scratch > >>actually, its led me to another idea. Hands up all those people >who've >made crystal set radios before. Anyway, these radios >generally have no >power source of their own. The energy to work >the headphone comes from >the energy transmitted. This energy is >only that particular part of the >spectrum. > >well ill only put one had up.. i have the kit but its not finished.. `\o well, neither have I... but my sister has, and I'm familiar with the theory > >>Wouldn't it be possible to build an antenna-ish thing to collect >stray >RF signals and use that energy to work? > >it sould work.. it could be used then amplified to the motor control in >some way.. but yes it wouldnt need any more power then any other >sensor... > >>>*bows* =] >>I've just discovered MORE creative people... carmageddon :) > >hehe being MORE creative or more ppl that are somewhat creative? :P *groan* more people! :) >either way ill try and take it as a compliment... that's good :) Andrew -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/IT/P d? s+:- a--- C++++ UL++(S+) P L++ E---- W+++ N++ o? K- w---(++) O- M-- V? PS+++ PE-- Y PGP- t+++(++++++++) 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI++++ D- G++ e*>++ h(!) r--- !y+(**) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Why robotics? Well my parents were always telling me to make new friends" -Andrew Vaughan $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00185915; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:25:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19273 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:14:25 -0700 Received: from nickkean.ihug.co.nz (nickkean.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.249]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20378 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:02:47 -0500 Received: from stuartm (ppp-872.ihug.co.nz [209.76.103.170]) by nickkean.ihug.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14690 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:02:26 +1200 Message-ID: <33F3D463.2456@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:00:35 +1200 From: Stuart Millar X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stuartm@ihug.co.nz From: stuartm@ihug.co.nz Subject: Unsubscribe PostedDate: 08/14/97 09:00:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/14/97 09:26:07 PM-08/14/97 09:26:08 PM DeliveredDate: 08/14/97 09:26:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Unsubscribe me please. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.002EF3EE; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:22:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA19446 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:10:32 -0700 Received: from m3.sprynet.com (m3.sprynet.com [165.121.1.55]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA21863 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:07:45 -0500 Received: from dan-s-p166 (hd30-014.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.221.14]) by m3.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA06393 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:11:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199708150811.BAA06393@m3.sprynet.com> From: "Dan Stormont" To: Subject: Re: My Education Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:03:08 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dstormon@sprynet.com From: dstormon@sprynet.com Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/15/97 01:03:08 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 01:22:09 AM-08/15/97 01:22:10 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 01:22:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Monica, I'm pretty new to robotics myself and especially to BEAM robotics. In fact this is my first posting to the mail list, but I couldn't resist your question about getting an EE degree. I've got a BS in Computer Engineering and am working on an MS in Computer Engineering, with a thesis in robotics. I needed the degree to get a job in engineering (not that I'm sure that sitting at a desk writing memos and putting together PowerPoint presentations actually qualifies as "engineering") and am working on my master's degree to make myself more marketable (and because I can get tuition assistance at work). Having taken both EE classes and Comp Sci classes to get my degree, I can tell you that the classes alone aren't going to prepare you for actually building a working robot (or circuit, or computer program). The first time you go to a lab to actually wire up a circuit you'll discover how many "simplifying assumptions" they make in the electronic design classes. Also, I find I have to spend a lot of time filling in the gaps in my own education (and work experience) to stay current or to do something new (like robotics). Don't get me wrong, I think formal education is a good thing, but if you're capable of learning the theory from a book and applying it, I don't see why you'd want to add another BS degree to your resume. Also, if you look at some of the diverse backgrounds of the BEAMers, it seems pretty obvious that an EE degree is not a requirement! You have a great opportunity with the Seattle Robotics Society. I ran in to one of their members at the AAAI '97 Robotics competition in Rhode Island last month and the range of robots their members are working on is just staggering: rovers, underwater robots, and probably some BEAM robots as well. I know I'll catch some hell from the hardcore BEAMers here, but I think there's plenty of use for microprocessor controlled robots (and I'm not convinced BEAM robots can do everything that the big, power-guzzling uP robots can - but I'm new enough to this game that I can probably be convinced otherwise). Between this mailing list and the SRS, I'd think you could probably get some of your "bizzare plans" up and running pretty quickly. Finally, your friends are probably right. If you want to make money and have a consistent job market (at least for now) knowing C++ and Java is probably the way to go. I don't know too many people making their livings in robotics. Of course, I'm hoping that'll change (about the time I'm looking for a new job!) Guess the question is, do you want to spend your days as a contract programmer going from project to project (and making pretty good money at it) or do something you might really enjoy? (Don't you hate questions like that?!) Dan Stormont stormontd@acm.org $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0031DA5B; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:04:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA19472 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:53:00 -0700 Received: from chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us (chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us [199.179.193.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22143 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:52:13 -0500 Received: from russryba.ferris.edu ([161.57.217.78]) by chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA14251 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708150851.EAA14251@chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us> From: "Russell Ryba" To: "BEAM Mailing List" Subject: Mars bots again... Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:52:31 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mr.ryba@usa.net From: mr.ryba@usa.net Subject: Mars bots again... PostedDate: 08/15/97 01:52:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 02:04:41 AM-08/15/97 02:04:41 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 02:04:41 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've been thinking about sending bots off to Mars, or somewhere else in space. Solar power doesn't seem to be a problem, but it is very cold. I've noticed that most electronics say at 20 degrees C or so. I have a few questions that hopefully someone could answers. What starts happening to circuits when the temperatures drop? Would a solar roller work in a well lit walk-in fridge? Would the simple electronics of a BEAM type robot need to go through the expensive "hardening" process that NASA had to do on all the electronics? This was done to protect it from random bit-flipping, but these bots don't have any bits... BTW, if any of you would like to talk with the people at JPL who are doing all the sojourner stuff, they are on IRC every day at 5:30pm California time. They can be reached at... http://www.lost-worlds.com/mars/pathfinder/flatzine/index.html Hope to see some of you there. Thanks! - Russ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.003897AC; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:18:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19508 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:06:42 -0700 Received: from invfacty.factory.com (invfacty.factory.com [199.183.47.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA22607 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:00:40 -0500 Received: from murk.factory.com by invfacty.factory.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA05828; Fri, 15 Aug 97 05:57:52 -0400 Received: from factory.com by bbsnet with UUCP ; Fri, 15 Aug 97 05:52:00 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: SolarRollerBus proposal From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) Message-Id: <339987.500.uupcb@factory.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 04:24:00 -0500 Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110 Reply-To: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) SMTPOriginator: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com Subject: SolarRollerBus proposal PostedDate: 08/15/97 02:24:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:18:19 AM-08/15/97 03:18:20 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:18:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>You're right. NvNets are not quite to the point where they need >>redundant ICs. Only tilden and a few others have madenets of that magnitude. >> >>I just want to make sure that NvNet technology isn't confined >>to a bus.... >>But for the long-term survivability of the species, >>I'd recommend not routing all your nervous pathways >>through one juncture. >are you referring to a weakness of the bus interconnect as the faulty (or >possibly faulty point)? i don't think a PCI bus design is necessarily the >bus i have been thinking about, since that might have problems... >as for enhancing survivability--i would like to ensure that all nervous >pathways are distributed as much as possible. it may come to the point that >a bus is not the best idea... don't know yet. >however, the spinal cord is a bus... one pathway and all. supporting >evidence? comments? Depends. Taking simple sea creatures as an example, both models exist. A cephalopod such as an octopus does indeed have a nerve bundle called a brain. A coelenterate such as a jellyfish has a distributed neural system. Depending on what you want, say, just modelling reflexive actions such as walking, backing up after bonking into a wall, etc., you can get by very well with a distributed system of feelers and motors, but if you want to include higher-function activities such as searching for the brightest spot in the room by actually walking around (eg, finding a nice spot in direct sunlight instead of just stopping near an open window on the north side of a house), you'll have to find some way to *communicate* the higher-order functions to the lower-order processors. Put another way, walking or other simple repetitive motions are probably best suited for distributed/local processing, whereas *goals* such as where to walk *to* are better served by a bus-type communication. Never forget that a 74x14 only represents 6 *neurons*, distilled down to its essence. How much processing power can they achieve? If you want to build on that, you'll eventually come to a point where just ganging more and more neurons to make it "smarter" actually bogs it down. Put another way, how many different files can you just dump into one big directory before realising that it's smarter for you to create different subdirectories and put the files into the appropriate ones? Evolution eventually differentiates and orders things. And this depends on how "evolved" your critters get. Again, some feedback if/when this post gets to the list, please. Tnx. (Or better yet, someone figure out how to flick the switch that echoes back your own posts from the list.) --- . SLMR 2.0 #..jw . 666i - BMW of the Beast. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00389B72; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:18:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19505 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:06:34 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22616 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:01:43 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-02.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.3]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id MAA19259; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:01:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:03:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Monica Stewart cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: My Education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/15/97 03:03:06 AM SendTo: nica@eskimo.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:18:20 AM-08/15/97 03:18:20 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:18:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Monica Stewart wrote: > What I want is a little advice as to whether I should go back to school to > study electrical engineering. IMHO it boils down to a simple question: Do you want robots to be fun, or (also) your work? In the latter case, formal education is the way to go. You give a pretty good argument yourself: > At the same time I worry that self-directed study could make my knowledge > too uneven. I won't know what I don't know, so I won't study it. And to make real progress fast enough, you have to work with other people on a regular basis. Moreover, to be accepted as a professional, you need degrees which are perceived as relevant. But if you primarily want a hobby, than formal education should be avoided. Just learn the things you need for your next design. And as a hobby, electronics and especially robotics can still be profitable. In my case, it has paid for all the parts and tools I use (including oscilloscope, fancy autofeeding soldering station, lab. power supply, a nice Fluke MM, frequency counter, several other goodies) plus a little extra. And while I've sold many different things, robot kits are certainly the most popular... Yes, I do have some formal education in electronics. But I quit well before getting a degree, to become a journalist. > And Seattle have something of a software bias, so they usually > say that I should bone down on C++ and Java if I really want to > get ahead. A knowledge of programming is certainly useful. I find myself hacking around quite a bit, and most of the really interesting jobs I did involved both hardware and software. However, it seems reasonable to assume that the robots of the future will understand C about as well as you do know :) Best regards, Steve (http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0038B3DE; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:19:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19511 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:07:49 -0700 Received: from invfacty.factory.com (invfacty.factory.com [199.183.47.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA22606 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:00:39 -0500 Received: from murk.factory.com by invfacty.factory.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA05822; Fri, 15 Aug 97 05:57:50 -0400 Received: from factory.com by bbsnet with UUCP ; Fri, 15 Aug 97 05:51:59 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) Message-Id: <339985.500.uupcb@factory.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 04:24:00 -0500 Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110 Reply-To: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) SMTPOriginator: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com Subject: Biocore (re:Sunflowers) PostedDate: 08/15/97 02:24:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:19:31 AM-08/15/97 03:19:32 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:19:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >I understand that the 74HCT series is CMOS (ie, low voltage) but designed >to replace the traditional 74xx, 74LSxx TTL series (ie, TTL drive currents >- 20mA?). Both HC and HCT are CMOS, but HCT is backward-compatible with TTL. HCT also works generally from TTL-level inputs and outputs, and only with a 5V supply voltage (plus or minus some), but HC has a wider supply- voltage range, and works with CMOS (ie, rail-to-rail) levels on input and output. In plain English, HCT generally works from 5V only, and a valid input is close to 0V for low, and ~2.4V-5.0V for high, whereas HC works over a wider range, doesn't like inputs or outputs to be ill-defined (floating anywhere in the middle) and prefers close to 0V for low and Vdd for high. Don't have the spex here to say which can supply more output current. You really *should* measure it directly with a fixed resistor instead of a motor, and do the measurements for: a) the voltage at each end of the resistor (one end at a high output and the other end at a low output) b) the current through the resistor (calculated from I = E/R) c) supply current to the IC in general. You might be able to get more current through the HC for a given value load (resistor or motor), but if the middling outputs of the HC cause you to drain too much from the supply, it may not be worth it. Just as an example, a 100 ohm resistor might pull 30mA in the HC, but the total supply current might be 60mA (30mA wasted), for an efficiency of 50%. From an HCT, the current might only be 20mA, but the total supply current might be only 30mA (10mA wasted), for an efficiency of 67%. Nb: I have *no* idea what actual numbers might be, or which is "better", which is why I'd strongly suggest y'all actually do the measurements to find out which works better and under what circumstances. Anyone grok what I'm saying, or am I making it sound more confusing than it really is? In general, CMOS does *not* like inputs or outputs being towards the middle, which is why the old 74C00 data sheets used to give *two* Icc ratings (supply current), one for inputs close to the rails, and the other with inputs at TTL levels. The latter was a *lot* higher than the former. Anyway, someone wanna send me a short note confirming whether or not this post actually made the list? It's confusing in the extreme to not have a post echoed back from the list, and given that we've been having massive email problems here lately, I just wanna see whether or not this actually went out. Fwiw, I don't think an earlier post of mine ever made it (window comparators), as I got *zero* response to it. Tnx. --- . SLMR 2.0 #..jw . 0.000666 - The Number of the Microbeast. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.004021E7; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:40:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA19555 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:28:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA23340 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:24:42 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wzKUf-0003at-00; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:24:37 -0400 Received: from ts44-09.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts44-09.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.216]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA23188 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708151124.HAA23188@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:03:15 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: My Education SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/15/97 04:03:15 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 04:40:38 AM-08/15/97 04:40:39 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 04:40:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:03 AM 8/15/97 -0600, "Dan Stormont" wrote: [snip] >. . . I know I'll catch some hell from the hardcore BEAMers here, but I >think there's plenty of use for microprocessor controlled robots (and I'm >not convinced BEAM robots can do everything that the big, power-guzzling uP >robots can . . . [snip] "Arrrrrgh!" "Burn the heretic!" ;-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00408211; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:44:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA19558 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:33:05 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23433 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:33:30 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14192; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp45.buffnet.net(205.246.19.152) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma011434; Fri, 15 Aug 97 07:32:21 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM , Dan Stormont Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:25:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. PostedDate: 08/15/97 05:25:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,dstormon@sprynet.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 04:44:43 AM-08/15/97 04:44:44 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 04:44:44 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US know I'll catch some hell from the hardcore BEAMers here, but I think there's plenty of use for microprocessor controlled robots (and I'm not convinced BEAM robots can do everything that the big, power-guzzling uP robots can - but I'm new enough to this game that I can probably be convinced otherwise). Well to a point I have to agree. From what the Gurus have done I belive that an Awfull lot that is often done with uP that dosen't need to be. To often today people will jump to uP without exploring other possibilites, so yes BEAM robots can do alot (I have a side note below, check it out.) But for now some things need uP. You know, when you think about it a huge net of Nv's could work like a Processor. SOMEONE out there should design a chip with the solar engin circuitry and/ or walker circuitry built in, and then do some heavy intergration. You could pull some need behaviors out of a chip with some sort of implementation of 10,000 transitors! Dennison On the Road to life, there is analog and digital. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00627A24; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:55:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA20397 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:44:03 -0700 Received: from aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (aupair.cs.athabascau.ca [131.232.10.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25769 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:18:40 -0500 Received: from stud1.acad.athabascau.ca(really [131.232.11.44]) by aupair.cs.athabascau.ca via smtpd with smtp id for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Jun-10) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:22:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Ramsden X-Sender: markr@stud1.acad.athabascau.ca To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. In-Reply-To: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: markr@cs.athabascau.ca From: markr@cs.athabascau.ca Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. PostedDate: 08/15/97 10:22:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 10:55:42 AM-08/15/97 10:55:43 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 10:55:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At the risk of re-stating something already said... It's all a matter of what you're good at. uP are extremely good for running things like databases but are really sorry cases for making things walk. uCores are the other way around. You can pound a nail in with a screwdriver if you try hard enough, but it just doesn't match a hammer. The trick is figuring out what tool to use, which isn't necessarily very easy. -- Mark Ramsden Phone: (403) 675-6249 Global and Social Analysis Athabasca University Box 10,000 Athabasca, AB CANADA $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0063625B; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:05:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA20439 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:53:33 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25781 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:21:30 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.2]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id TAA07633; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:21:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:22:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Dennlill cc: BEAM , Dan Stormont Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. In-Reply-To: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. PostedDate: 08/15/97 10:22:52 AM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com,dstormon@sprynet.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 11:05:44 AM-08/15/97 11:05:45 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 11:05:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Dennlill wrote: > You know, when you think about it a huge net of Nv's could work like a > Processor. SOMEONE out there should design a chip with the solar engin > circuitry and/ or walker circuitry built in, and then do some heavy > intergration. You could pull some need behaviors out of a chip with some > sort of implementation of 10,000 transitors! Perhaps. IMHO the strong point of neural networks as conceived by Mark T. is, that they acknowledge the role played by the environment. Behaviour, memory and even `intelligence' are not contained within the individual; it all happens as a reaction between the individual and its environment. You remember things somewhat like DRAM does, rather well as long as you see what you remember around you. Things that disappear from your environment, also fade from memory. You are intelligent about things you see happening around you; you don't even think about what isn't there. Smart animals (people) are smart mostly because they are more aware of what is in their environment. There is a conflict between this interrelation and the notion of `design'. If you set out to design something, you have to internalize everything pertaining to the task you design for - this is called writing (designing to) the `specification'. If you look at anything mankind has ever designed, you will notice that any use our products have *outside* their specification is pure luck. We may adapt our creations, but they don't adapt themselves, and they are quite incapable of dealing with an undefined environment, that is, any part of the environment that wasn't represented internally to begin with. This is not some temporary defect of the design process; it is inherently impossible to design something which has to deal with the undefined environment. Only evolution has something like that capability. No, it doesn't have to be *biological* evolution, but we don't as yet have a valid technological equivalent. I'm not sure we even want it. So here, as well, is your great divide between neural networks (TM) and microprocessor based stuff. The latter allow you / force you to design to specs, the former force you to do lots of trial and error. Both may have their parts to play in future robotkind. Both are certainly interesting, and fun! Best regards, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00643F57; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:14:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20476 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:03:24 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25912 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:36:28 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20248 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708151736.NAA20248@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp66.buffnet.net(205.246.19.173) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma020573; Fri, 15 Aug 97 13:35:08 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Solar Cells Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:28:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/15/97 11:28:27 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 11:15:05 AM-08/15/97 11:15:06 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 11:15:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If anyone has the Edmund Scientific 1997 Annual Science Referance catalog for Educators, check it out! There are some awsome Solar Cells! (I'm not an educator though, just a kid, ask and you will recieve!) Some of the solar Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either low Volt but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance For $3 a .45 volt 100ma cell only 1" by 1 3/4". all the way to $7.50 for a .45 volt 1000Ma cell, 3" by 2" they also have a satellite cell, 550mA at .45v but only 20x60mm! (17.50) So they have a real wide assorment of cells that youy might want to check out. Some are small and cheap enough to get a couple and wire them up in series or parralel. Dennison $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0064CE87; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:21:04 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20524 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:09:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12161 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25948 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:38:57 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA08769 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21073; Fri, 15 Aug 97 11:38:13 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708151124.HAA23188@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:41:40 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: My Education SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/15/97 11:41:40 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 11:21:13 AM-08/15/97 11:21:13 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 11:21:13 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >At 02:03 AM 8/15/97 -0600, "Dan Stormont" wrote: >[snip] >>. . . I know I'll catch some hell from the hardcore BEAMers here, but I >>think there's plenty of use for microprocessor controlled robots (and I'm >>not convinced BEAM robots can do everything that the big, power-guzzling uP >>robots can . . . [snip] > > "Arrrrrgh!" "Burn the heretic!" ;-) Heh. That's like saying "there's plenty of use for PCs, cause I'm not convinced that calculators can do the job". Once again, the message of BEAM is not anti-processor, just anti-complexity. As we usta say in the mail service, never use an uzi for a .22 job. For example, if someone starts talking about their 6 leg walker with 18 unibus DSPs running from a concurrent UNIX port to parallel VME platforms, expect some long stares from BEAM designers. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0066F0B0; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:44:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20629 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:32:55 -0700 Received: from lugs.org.sg (ppp2.lugs.org.sg [203.127.221.99]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26069 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:48:10 -0500 Received: from pandora by lugs.org.sg with uucp (Linux Smail3.2.0.92 #14) id m0wzQag-00028gC; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:55:14 +0800 (SGT) Received: by pandora.lugs.org.sg (UUPC/extended 1.12r); Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:49:03 +0800 Message-ID: <33f4968f.pandora@pandora.lugs.org.sg> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:49:03 +0800 From: "W. Daniel, 9V1ZV" Reply-To: "W. Daniel, 9V1ZV" To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Controlling a walker SMTPOriginator: pandora!pandora.lugs.org.sg!daniel@lugs.org.sg From: daniel@pandora.lugs.org.sg Subject: Controlling a walker PostedDate: 08/15/97 10:49:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: daniel@pandora.lugs.org.sg $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 11:44:31 AM-08/15/97 11:44:32 AM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 11:44:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I've been following the BEAM discussions for a long time and recently became interested in building a walker. However, from what I gather, there is not clear way of directing a particular walker, for example. Say I build a walker, and I manage to get the gait right. How do I interface this to a higher level processing so as to make use of its walking abilities as part of a larger system which is not necessarily a Neural net? I'd appreciate it if someone could enlighten me here. It would be great if there was some way I could just tell the walker where I wanted it to go and have it get there, around obstacles, etc. I am guessing that this would be done by some form of feedback network controlled by the higher process. 73 de 9V1ZV Daniel -- +------------+-------------------------------+ | Daniel Wee | daniel@pandora.lugs.org.sg | | 9V1ZV | danwee@singnet.com.sg | | QRP-L #667 | 9V1ZV@amsat.org | +------------+-------------------------------+ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0068A8B2; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:03:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA20698 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:51:22 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26340 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:06:39 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA13239 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21221; Fri, 15 Aug 97 12:05:57 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708150851.EAA14251@chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:09:24 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Mars bots again... SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mars bots again... PostedDate: 08/15/97 12:09:24 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 12:03:14 PM-08/15/97 12:03:15 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 12:03:15 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >What starts happening to circuits when the temperatures drop? Amplifier characteristics change, and in general IC circuits start consuming less power for basic operation, resulting in output power reduction and fan-out loss. Furthermore they can no longer run at their rated high speeds. Low speeds seem to work fine though. >Would a solar roller work in a well lit walk-in fridge? Sure, provided little frost builds up on the mechanism. I had a window-cleaner running fine through two Canadian winters, and the only problem I noticed was that cold effects electrolytic capacitor discharge rates so motor power falls. Oh, and that any form of lubrication gets hard at -20 below C. A quick run through the dishwasher usually cures that though. >Would the simple electronics of a BEAM type robot need to go through the >expensive "hardening" process that NASA had to do on all the electronics? >This was done to protect it from random bit-flipping, but these bots don't >have any bits... Correct, and if built using meso-CMOS procedures (transistors emulating what happens inside an inverter chip) the radiation resistance can be as high as 300% (measured) over conventional digital controllers, over a wider temperature range, at less power, and without the need of a single line of code. But don't tell the JPL people. So long as they stick with uP controllers, it gives us a chance to catch up. :) markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.006F23B5; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:13:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA20855 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:02:21 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26845 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:52:52 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA18540 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21473; Fri, 15 Aug 97 12:52:06 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:55:33 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: My Education:uP? I kinda Agree. PostedDate: 08/15/97 12:55:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 01:14:00 PM-08/15/97 01:14:01 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 01:14:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Dennlill wrote: > >> You know, when you think about it a huge net of Nv's could work like a >> Processor. SOMEONE out there should design a chip with the solar engin >> circuitry and/ or walker circuitry built in, and then do some heavy >> intergration. You could pull some need behaviors out of a chip with some >> sort of implementation of 10,000 transitors! Just what was hoped, but as some may be finding out now, homogeneous Nv systems loose phase competency at large integration scales. That is, adding an active head or other form of controller to a walking body and keeping it competent is not as trivial as it sounds, and the problem gets worse the more diversity levels one adds. One of the big projects i've been working on for a few years now is how to structure such larger Nv arrays to optimize function instead of disco. One solution is symetric, folded, bidirectional control architectures and the Strider robot (Dave H's page) is one of the first successful walking implementations. Larger Nv forms are in the Wave Processor boards now running in my lab (100 plus neurons) and the folded "Rubics brain" prototypes, which are literally broad-stimulus parallel integration processors waiting for bodies complex/large enough to support them (such bodies under development now if I can scrounge motors powerful enough to drive them). So large scale Nv structures are possible, and the behaviors exotic, but more experiment and analysis needs to be done before a 10,000 transistor Nv 'cortex' chip can be built, assumed useful, and plopped into a 'bots "head". If this works, it should be some seriously impressive shit. I'll be impressed anyway. Details pending. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0079A659; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:08:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA21195 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:57:15 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27955 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:45:01 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup19.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.238]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA18839 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:01:55 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970815164313.00a48d60@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:43:13 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: My Education? [onto larger Nv networks] In-Reply-To: References: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: My Education? [onto larger Nv networks] PostedDate: 08/15/97 01:43:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:08:49 PM-08/15/97 03:08:50 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:08:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Just what was hoped, but as some may be finding out now, homogeneous Nv >systems loose phase competency at large integration scales. That is, >adding an active head or other form of controller to a walking body and >keeping it competent is not as trivial as it sounds, and the problem gets >worse the more diversity levels one adds. I believe (conjecture here guys, you know that large leap of faith stuff), that for large Nv systems, the linkage needs to be loose. In loose, I mean independent and heterogenous networks. Where it won't be "one centralized loop(s)," but more like loosely coupled loops. For example, one loop would influence another loop though a sensor or through the environment (watch the world-not the wires). I guess i don't understand what "broad-stimulus parallel integration processors" are? On a similar note, Andrew Miller's page has a pic of a dual two-neuron nervous network bot. I would assume that one is the master and the other is the slave. Don't know! Advantages Andrew? Cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0079AE1A; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:09:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA21194 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:57:14 -0700 Received: from aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (aupair.cs.athabascau.ca [131.232.10.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28191 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:18:59 -0500 Received: from stud1.acad.athabascau.ca(really [131.232.11.44]) by aupair.cs.athabascau.ca via smtpd with smtp id for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:18:55 -0600 (MDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Jun-10) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:22:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Ramsden X-Sender: markr@stud1.acad.athabascau.ca To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Odd ideas from biology Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: markr@cs.athabascau.ca From: markr@cs.athabascau.ca Subject: Odd ideas from biology PostedDate: 08/15/97 02:22:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:09:09 PM-08/15/97 03:09:10 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:09:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I haven't actually built my own walker, but... One thing I've noticed is that Nv's are good at repetitive motions, or cycles of motions, but generally require something extra for their decision-making. Something I remember from back in high-school biology class is that with neurons in the brain, there can be repressive connections as well as stimulative connections when it comes to passing on a neural signal. For example, neuron A will cause neuron B to fire, but only if neuron C isn't firing. With some creativity, some really nifty "judgement calls" could be made by a Nv net, such as "continue to walk forward if there is light, but only if there isn't a cliff". Also, all setups that I've seen have mechanical functionality on each neuron. Quite a bit, however, could be done with neurons built only for decision-making purposes. If variable resistors are used in the Nv net, a sound sensor could cause accelleration of gait (ie. loud noises send the thing running). One last thing is the presence of hormones in living things, and the fact that they drastically alter the performance of the creature. Possibly the electronic equivallent is hormones taking the form of the current "state" of the robot... in the example of running at noise, the "adrenaline" rush is implemented by changing the resistance in the Nv, thus changing its state to one of hightened activity. (IMHO, the disregard of hormones in the decision-making process is one reasons why people trying to develop true AI are on the wrong track) At any rate, that's my $0.02. Feel free to comment/complement/destroy these theories :) -- Mark Ramsden Phone: (403) 675-6249 Global and Social Analysis Athabasca University Box 10,000 Athabasca, AB CANADA $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.007BDAB1; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:32:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21236 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:21:16 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28266 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:26:57 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23656 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708152127.RAA23656@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp1.buffnet.net(205.246.19.108) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma007062; Fri, 15 Aug 97 17:26:01 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Solar Cells Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:19:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/15/97 03:19:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 03:32:58 PM-08/15/97 03:32:58 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 03:32:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone has the Edmund Scientific 1997 Annual Science Referance catalog for Educators, check it out! There are some awsome Solar Cells! (I'm not an educator though, just a kid, ask and you will recieve!) Some of the solar Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either low Volt but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance For $3 a .45 volt 100ma cell only 1" by 1 3/4". all the way to $7.50 for a .45 volt 1000Ma cell, 3" by 2" they also have a satellite cell, 550mA at .45v but only 20x60mm! (17.50) So they have a real wide assorment of cells that youy might want to check out. Some are small and cheap enough to get a couple and wire them up in series or parralel. Dennison On the road to life... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.00804238; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:20:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA21356 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:09:12 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28517 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:56:12 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24206; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708152156.RAA24206@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from eppp1.buffnet.net(205.246.19.108) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma012827; Fri, 15 Aug 97 17:54:56 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM , Steven Bolt Subject: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:48:17 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. PostedDate: 08/15/97 03:48:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,sbolt@xs4all.nl $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 04:21:06 PM-08/15/97 04:21:07 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 04:21:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I know this sounds all terribly strange. And it is, because I don't even understand it. I'm not sure what I'm talking about, but a reasonablly large net contolling a memmory. Say forinstance a SErial Ram or Eprom was used. Then the data stored at a specific location could be retreaved in a serial stream and stored in a stream. When a specific incident is "recored" the pulse stream going throught the Nv net could me recorded ina serial Ram or eprom. And when the Nv is retrriveing the data the serial stream could be used to inject pulses into the Nv creating a sort of "memory" by recreating the pulse stream of the net. Neat idea? To bad I don't have the capacity to do it. But as I think about it more and more though, it sounds better and better. Dennison More below but it's just jiberish. I"m kind of thinking out loud, I wrote whats below first but then was comfused by it's compexity. It's interesting that you mention DRAM. I just thought, now the basic microcore, or expanded COULD with a few extra parts (more than a few) could controll a DRAM (or RAM. This sounds kinda rinkydink. But Lets say you have a microcore with a blank dram. the microcore could sequence through a multiplexer or something of the sort and then when it encounters certian situations store the situation (inputs) for latter use. And at the time randomly make a Descision (implemeted befor in an old robot book. I Forgot the name) but then every time a new situstion arises check it with an past experince (match bits) then retrive a response that "worked" $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F4.0083659A; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA21444 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:43:22 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29039 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:56:05 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts66ip121.cadvision.com [207.228.75.121]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id QAA177670; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:44:41 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970815165439.00cb7c34@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:54:39 -0600 To: Dennlill , BEAM From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Solar Cells In-Reply-To: <199708151736.NAA20248@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/15/97 03:54:39 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 04:55:18 PM-08/15/97 04:55:19 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 04:55:19 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:28 PM 8/15/1997 -0500, Dennlill wrote: >If anyone has the Edmund Scientific 1997 Annual Science Referance catalog >for Educators, check it out! There are some awsome Solar Cells! (I'm not an >educator though, just a kid, ask and you will recieve!) Some of the solar >Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either low Volt >but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance Yup, that's quite traditional. Also, they may be quite thin and sharp (ie: easy to break). I've seen some interesting photovores (anybody remember to wandering Pyramid?) that had these, but were "killed" when another 'bot cracked one of these cells. But, don't let that stop you -experiment away! -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0002636A; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:26:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21511 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:14:32 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29399 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:38:27 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TAN23825; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:51 EDT To: mscan@geocities.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970815.190605.7807.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> <19970811.170420.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> <33F3F4A5.3366@geocities.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,6-9,11,17-18,20-21,24-25,29-30,33 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:51 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/15/97 04:36:51 PM SendTo: mscan@geocities.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 05:26:15 PM-08/15/97 05:26:16 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 05:26:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:18:13 -0700 Michael Scanlon writes: >Ok, that makes more sense now. Your idea sounds very good. Like >I said, I came up with a similar one when I first heard about >photovores, however,my idea was significantly less refined and >unclear. One question I have though is, will this photovore that >feeds on this plant need "anti-BEAM" electronics in it? anti beam? how so? >How will it changes modes from normal (whatever it's task maybe, >being photophobic) to seeking out the infrared signal for food? well there was an idea offered by someone who built the cybug that uses a relay and a potentiomiter... the relay is originaly designed for 12 volts.. with the pot. it is set to trigger at another voltage.. when the internal power of the rover bot goes below the preset voltage.. the relay triggers the other circut into use.. the relay works like a double pole double throw switch with a voltage trigger.. >And further on, what happens if it runs out of energy prior to >making it to the plant? Does it "die", or just anaemic? well we set the relay to trigger well before the rover would be unable to drive itself.. and i would use ideas i posted earlier to make sure that the rover doesnt move outside of the plant's range.. >These questions are not asked to prove this to be a bad idea, but >in order to improve it and make it a better idea before it is >tried. I've been thinking lately about possibly making a robotic >ecosystem for a senior project in college (I'll be an entering >freshman this fall). thank you.. i actualy like things like this becuase it gives me a chance to refine my ideas and debug them before they even are out of the development stage.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00027432; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:26:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21514 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:15:12 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29397 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:38:11 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TAL23825; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:51 EDT To: tink@ix.net.au, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control Message-ID: <19970815.190605.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970815034119.006ab278@ix.net.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-7,9-11,15-24 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:51 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/15/97 04:36:51 PM SendTo: tink@ix.net.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 05:26:56 PM-08/15/97 05:26:57 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 05:26:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:41:19 +1000 Andrew Vaughan writes: >or build an RF transmitter from scratch hehe you are trying to do things the hard way arnt you.. =] oh ok.. so it will be an rf trans.. but will it have such a drastic change in range? oh nevermind that can prolly be configured.. >well, neither have I... but my sister has, and I'm familiar with >the theory ok then you count too =] how directional could that setup be made to be? im wondering if we can get a binocular effect rather then just a ranging device.. wouldnt it be good if we could use something like this to locate the station? rather then using this AND the ir "eyes"? >*groan* more people! :) can never be too sure sometime.. :P >>either way ill try and take it as a compliment... >that's good :) woo i did god.. ill write it on the calender.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00030305; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:32:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21517 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:21:20 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29395 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:38:03 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TAP23825; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:52 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Solar Cells Message-ID: <19970815.190605.7807.5.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <199708151736.NAA20248@buffnet4.buffnet.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-4,12 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:36:52 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/15/97 04:36:52 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 05:33:03 PM-08/15/97 05:33:04 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 05:33:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:28:27 -0500 Dennlill writes: >Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either >low Volt but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance correct me if im wrong but doesnt a cell's voltage/amp output depend on how you wire up the contacts across the surface? i.e. having a bunch of these wires (cant rmeember what they are called) close together but long.. you would get a higher voltage but less amperage.. where as short ones with more space would give the opposete.. or something along those lines? in such a way that you could get close to any combination of voltage to amperage ratings as long as you had the same wattage... kinda like wiring batteries in serial/parralell to get the same effect... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0010FFA3; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:05:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA21658 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:54:00 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30530 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:57:39 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wzY7S-0004mY-00; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:57:34 -0400 Received: from ts81-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts81-16.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.79]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA24463 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708160157.VAA24463@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:36:05 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Controlling a walker SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Controlling a walker PostedDate: 08/15/97 06:36:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 08:05:48 PM-08/15/97 08:05:48 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 08:05:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:49 AM 8/16/97 +0800, "W. Daniel, 9V1ZV" wrote: >Hi, > > I've been following the BEAM discussions for a long time and recently >became interested in building a walker. However, from what I gather, there >is not clear way of directing a particular walker, for example. > > Say I build a walker, and I manage to get the gait right. How do I >interface this to a higher level processing so as to make use of its walking >abilities as part of a larger system which is not necessarily a Neural net? > > I'd appreciate it if someone could enlighten me here. It would be great >if there was some way I could just tell the walker where I wanted it to go >and have it get there, around obstacles, etc. I am guessing that this would >be done by some form of feedback network controlled by the higher process. > >73 de 9V1ZV Daniel >-- >+------------+-------------------------------+ >| Daniel Wee | daniel@pandora.lugs.org.sg | >| 9V1ZV | danwee@singnet.com.sg | >| QRP-L #667 | 9V1ZV@amsat.org | >+------------+-------------------------------+ > > > You are correct. There has not been a lot of discussion, here, about goal-setting. Our main topics have been: "How do I get started," and "It doesn't quite walk; now what?" There are many ways to direct a walker with the Nv-net. A partial list of sensors to include: touch, light, heat, IR, magnetic flux, sound. . . All of these will work at the Nv-net level, and can be subsumed nicely. Get started on your walker, but presume that the first "brain board" will be replaced by the next generation . . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00123833; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:19:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA21681 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:07:09 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30532 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:57:40 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0wzY7V-0004me-00; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:57:37 -0400 Received: from ts81-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts81-16.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.79]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA24475 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708160157.VAA24475@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:36:07 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Odd ideas from biology SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Odd ideas from biology PostedDate: 08/15/97 06:36:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/15/97 08:19:04 PM-08/15/97 08:19:04 PM DeliveredDate: 08/15/97 08:19:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:22 PM 8/15/97 -0600, Mark Ramsden wrote: >I haven't actually built my own walker, but... See note at the end. [snip] >Something I remember from back in high-school biology class is that with >neurons in the brain, there can be repressive connections as well as >stimulative connections when it comes to passing on a neural signal. For >example, neuron A will cause neuron B to fire, but only if neuron C isn't >firing. With some creativity, some really nifty "judgement calls" could >be made by a Nv net, such as "continue to walk forward if there is light, >but only if there isn't a cliff". We've co-opted that "stimulate / inhibit" terminology and use it to describe "processes" that have been made longer or shorter than their "rest" times. The If-Then-Else is realized through subsumption or layering. > >Also, all setups that I've seen have mechanical functionality on each >neuron. Quite a bit, however, could be done with neurons built only for >decision-making purposes. If variable resistors are used in the Nv net, a >sound sensor could cause accelleration of gait (ie. loud noises send the >thing running). Some early BEAM-'bots made use of Nv's that were not "mechanically funtional" (as you so succinctly put it) as we went through a minimalist period those "extra" Nv's got put aside. The current state-of-the-art like Mark T's "Strider" goes back to having more Nv's than motors. The simpler Quad-core is still an excellent starting point, and _very_ flexible. > [snip] >At any rate, that's my $0.02. Feel free to comment/complement/destroy >these theories :) Nope, not going to destroy these theories; just going to nag you to start building! >-- >Mark Ramsden >Phone: (403) 675-6249 > >Global and Social Analysis >Athabasca University >Box 10,000 >Athabasca, AB CANADA > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00288394; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:22:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA21900 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:10:58 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA32087 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:18:21 -0500 Received: from dcp1-61.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-61.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.61]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA14646 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970816012047.3f27c3f4@nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:20:47 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Re: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. In-Reply-To: <199708152156.RAA24206@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Re: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. PostedDate: 08/15/97 06:20:47 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 12:22:37 AM-08/16/97 12:22:39 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 12:22:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:48 PM 8/15/97 -0500, Dennlill wrote: >But Lets say you have >a microcore with a blank dram. the microcore could sequence through a >multiplexer or something of the sort and then when it encounters certian >situations store the situation (inputs) for latter use. And at the time >randomly make a Descision (implemeted befor in an old robot book. I Forgot >the name) but then every time a new situstion arises check it with an past >experince (match bits) then retrive a response that "worked" Ahh... How to Build Your Own Self-Programming Robot by David L. Heiserman from back in 1979. Love that book! Trying that... but using a pic and an 8 pin serial eeprom. This old method works great for wheeled robots that have a direct applied move/ actual move relationship, but walkers don't work that way. The effect of an applied move depends on what position the legs are in... to compensate I also added time of applied move as a variable. This helps but don't expect miracles. Works better than nothing at all but 2-motor microcores just can't turn that well, so most of its responses are evaluated as bad. Not fair! My little bot is trying to learn how to get out of corners, with partial success. W/O the brain it just butts the wall over and over, go I guess that's an improvement. At least it's a cheap and simple brain... I'd probably have more luck using the brain on something a bit more steerable, like a 3 motor design, but again it ain't like controlling something with wheels. http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/otherwld/robot2.html if anyone's interested... warning: no pictures, better like ascii schematics, and code bugs are numerous. (self-organizing systems tend to adapt around bugs, so it's hard to tell:) - Terry $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00290E0C; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:28:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA21908 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:16:53 -0700 Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA32210 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:36:41 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.2]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id IAA28254; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:36:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:38:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Dennlill cc: BEAM Subject: Re: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. In-Reply-To: <199708152156.RAA24206@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Seral Memories for Nv Nets. PostedDate: 08/15/97 11:38:02 PM SendTo: dennlill@buffnet.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 12:28:35 AM-08/16/97 12:28:35 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 12:28:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Dennlill wrote: > Say forinstance a SErial Ram or Eprom was used. Then the data stored at a > specific location could be retreaved in a serial stream and stored in a > stream. When a specific incident is "recored" the pulse stream going > throught the Nv net could me recorded ina serial Ram or eprom. And when the > Nv is retrriveing the data the serial stream could be used to inject pulses > into the Nv creating a sort of "memory" by recreating the pulse stream of > the net. Some day it may be worthwile to have (short term) memory. But isn't it a solution looking for a problem at this point? Based on what criteria does your bot retrieve stored info? > ...But Lets say you have a microcore with a blank dram. the > microcore could sequence through a multiplexer or something of > the sort and then when it encounters certian situations How does it decide what a `certain situation' is? > store the situation (inputs) for latter use. And at the time > randomly make a Descision (implemeted befor in an old robot book. I > Forgot the name) but then every time a new situstion arises check > it with an past experince (match bits) then retrive a response > that "worked" How does it recognise a *new* situation? How does it decide whether a response has (not) `worked'? All this tends to lead to very complex technology, which seems unlikely to deal very well with a real (unpredictable) environment. It is perhaps better to think about what you want your bot to do, and how you can achieve your goal in principle. I prefer to think in terms of memory or other parts only when I have a clear view of the role each of them must play. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0055E076; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:38:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22144 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:26:25 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01615 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:09:28 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco1-32.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.32]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA03972; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33F5B520.271B@golden.net> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:11:44 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian O. Bush" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: My Education? [onto larger Nv networks] References: <199708151133.HAA14192@buffnet4.buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970815164313.00a48d60@wingate> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: My Education? [onto larger Nv networks] PostedDate: 08/16/97 07:11:44 AM SendTo: bbush@xtdl.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 08:38:12 AM-08/16/97 08:38:13 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 08:38:13 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > I believe (conjecture here guys, you know that large leap of faith stuff), > that for large Nv systems, the linkage needs to be loose. In loose, I mean > independent and heterogenous networks. Where it won't be "one centralized > loop(s)," but more like loosely coupled loops. For example, one loop would > influence another loop though a sensor or through the environment (watch > the world-not the wires). Good guess..... But easier said than done... The whole Idea of paralleling the smaller nv nets and "looping" them together is no in the remotest bit new... The understanding that makes it possible is..... Mark's early machines Such as Lobster had Nu Nets Controling Nv Nets that influenced Nv nets.... the damn thing kept falling on its "steely butt".... Mark had to back track to more simple designs such as Walkman (which by the way was the genisus of the True "MicroCore") in order to understand the behaviors that make everything possible... out of those experiments at the base level come designs like Strider.... Linked subsets of Nv Nets carfully balenced against one another and acting together in order to make the think walk in the most eligent of fashions..... Mark Has the capability (habit?) Of rambling on at length on the intickasees of Nv design and most don't understand a damn thing he says... I like to think I understand a lot more of it than most folks and I'm still way behind.... Fact is Nv net tech is at it's base level Very simple but at the behavioral level its Way more complex than we could have dreamed..... Some of the stuff emerging with the use of parralleled quasi-chaotic ocillators (fancy term for Loose loops) is Fantastic..... Every time I talk to Mark I both inspired and nocked down... He's making the most fantastic inspiring advances and at the same time I've got sooo much tto learn... Damn I wish sombody would give me a job doing this sort of thing for a living....(grumble grumble) > > I guess i don't understand what "broad-stimulus parallel integration > processors" are? > Fancy way of saying that the left hand isn't directly watching what the right hand is doing but each hands actions infulence the other's.... every try to scratch you toe and get somthing off the top shelf at the same time... Probably a bad analogie but I've only had one cup of coffee.... > On a similar note, Andrew Miller's page has a pic of a dual two-neuron > nervous network bot. I would assume that one is the master and the other is > the slave. Don't know! Advantages Andrew? > Yup, master slave is the best way to describe it.... The "lazer cannon" on top is actually a trim pot used to change the bias on the "Master" in order to make the thing do everything from walk Forward/left/right/backward to do the watoosie.... Although the master has the most influence the slave has somthing to say in the game so the behavior is MUCHO complex with the changing of one resistor..... Get tothe multi loop/toroid/ladder devices like strider and snake you statrt getting some REAL neat abilities..... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0057F561; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:00:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22189 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:49:12 -0700 Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01859 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:53:04 -0500 Received: from buffnet9.buffnet.net (buffnet9.buffnet.net [205.246.19.19]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01450 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708161452.KAA01450@buffnet4.buffnet.net> Received: from dppp30.buffnet.net(205.246.19.209) by buffnet9.buffnet.net via smap (V2.0) id xma003767; Sat, 16 Aug 97 10:32:08 -0400 From: Dennlill To: BEAM Subject: Walker Caps Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:25:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dennlill@buffnet.net From: dennlill@buffnet.net Subject: Walker Caps PostedDate: 08/16/97 08:25:26 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 09:00:49 AM-08/16/97 09:00:49 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 09:00:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I'm currently trying to build a walker. What type of Cap's (ceramic, or the polyplasic mylar or the multitudes of others) are best for the walker? I was thinking ceramic. Dennison $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0063435B; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:04:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22305 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:52:46 -0700 Received: from geocities.com (mail3.geocities.com [204.7.246.133]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02753 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:10:23 -0500 Received: from patrick-scanlon (1Cust195.tnt1.beaverton.or.da.uu.net [153.35.201.195]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09851; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33F5DEBB.4009@geocities.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:09:15 -0700 From: Michael Scanlon Reply-To: mscan@geocities.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-PBWG (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nyt wulf CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Speed Control References: <3.0.1.32.19970809232753.00b82424@cadvision.com> <19970811.170420.7807.1.nytwulf@juno.com> <33F3F4A5.3366@geocities.com> <19970815.190605.7807.3.nytwulf@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mscan@geocities.com From: mscan@geocities.com Subject: Re: Speed Control PostedDate: 08/16/97 10:09:15 AM SendTo: nytwulf@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: mscan@geocities.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 11:04:18 AM-08/16/97 11:04:19 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 11:04:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Nyt wulf wrote: > anti beam? how so? This is where my lack of electronics knowledge comes in. I thought that it would take some complex electronics. > > And further on, what happens if it runs out of energy prior to > > making it to the plant? Does it "die", or just anaemic? > > well we set the relay to trigger well before the rover would be unable to > drive itself.. and i would use ideas i posted earlier to make sure that > the rover doesnt move outside of the plant's range.. Oh, I didn't realize that plant had a range the the rover wouldn't go out of. I thought there would be multiple plants, and when the rover got hungry it would essencially "look up from what's doing" and goto the nearest plant. I don't know how effecient a one plant to one rover system is, as conpared to many plants. These rovers would still be able to seek out light on there own, right? If it can go from being photophobic to seeking out the plant, couldn't it be made to be phototrophic too, as a third mode in case a plant wasn't nearby? Michael Scanlon $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00634501; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:04:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22302 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:52:41 -0700 Received: from huitzilo.tezcat.com (huitzilo.tezcat.com [204.128.247.17]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02672 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:55:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (rnortman@localhost) by huitzilo.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id LAA17178 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:55:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:55:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "R. Nortman" To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Axle ideas needed (was Re: Pager motor info) In-Reply-To: <199708140644.CAA03772@inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: rnortman@tezcat.com From: rnortman@tezcat.com Subject: Axle ideas needed (was Re: Pager motor info) PostedDate: 08/16/97 09:55:30 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 11:04:18 AM-08/16/97 11:04:19 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 11:04:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Let me start by thanking all the people that responded to me. Your input is greatly appreciated! On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Richard Weait wrote: [...] > [entire list groans anticipating Richard's Rant on safety] > Well, start with safety glasses. Wear them every time. A wire > end can go a long way when snipped. Solder can spatter when > heated. (And there's all those people throwing things at me.) > So, get the glasses, with the side shields. Or a full face shield > if that suits you. [...] But of course! And appropriate gloves when working with chemicals, and a dust mask when making dust, and lots of ventilation when making fumes, and ear plugs when working with loud machinery, etc... > >When I get a working mechanical base (motors, gears, and wheels > >mounted on "something" controlled by a couple of DPDT switches on a > >tether), I'll be back to beg for sensor and circuitry help. =) > > Don't just disappear until then. Keep us up-to-date. [...] Well, you asked for it...if you really are curious and still want to provide assistance, here's my status: (Measurements are given in US units mostly...I prefer metric, but my caliper only reads US. My local hardware store only sells that type, which isn't surprising, given that I'm in the US.) I'm not using the pager motors for this bot -- but maybe another one. I found a small dual-motor + dual-geartrain assembly at a local hobby shop. It measures about 1.5" x 3" x 7/8" and has output shafts at one end facing in opposite directions. Obviously, it was made for a differential drive toy of some sort, which makes it perfect for me! It uses two small Mabuchi motors...I know, Mabuchi motors aren't efficient. Well, I must confess that I've decided my first bot will not be solar powered. I need to eliminate constraints like that if I'm gonna avoid insurmountable frustration. Later, I'll do solar power. So the problem is in interfacing to the output shafts of the geartrains. This is complicated by the fact that each shaft is somewhat different, because they share the same axle. On one side (let's call it the left side), the axle itself is driven by the left motor. The axle is a solid metal rod, about 1/8" in diameter, and totally round and smooth except for a couple of little "pinches" 1/4" from the end of the shaft. I'm betting these pinches are just the right size to match whatever was intended to attach to that side, but I think they're too small for me to use. On the other side, there's a plastic sheath that spins freely on the axle, driven by the right motor, about 3/16" in diameter. It has two grooves on opposite sides of the sheath that are probably big enough for me to make use of. I can't measure them accurately, but they look like they're about 1mm deep and run almost the entire length of the sheath, 1/4". So, at the same hobby shop, I bought two plastic wheels with foam rubber tires. The tires are 2" in diameter, and they have a 1/4" diameter hole in the center for the axle. The hole is completely smooth, and there is no provision for a set screw. So the problem: get from output shafts to wheels. I bought a 1/4" wooden dowel rod, and I'm gonna go buy a Dremel today and see if I can drill out the rod to accomodate the shafts. The right side (with the plastic sheath) should be easiest; I'm hoping I can shape the inside of the dowel to fit into the grooves and provide a better grip, but I'm not sure how successful I'll be. The left side (bare metal) worries me -- how will I get a good grip? Will glue suffice? Or should I go with a metal axle and solder it? Solder worries me, since the shop had only one of these motor/gearbox assemblies, and if I mess up, I have to look for another solution. I figure I'll just slide the wheels on the dowel and glue them in place with a hot-glue gun. Since the output axle is only about 2-1/4" from end to end, and I want about 6" separation between the wheels, I'm going to need my own axles to extend pretty far out from the gearbox. (I'll worry about supporting the axles without introducing too much friction later.) Any suggestions? Maybe a shaft coupler of some sort? I've never worked with such things, and I'm not sure where I would find them. My next problem, if anybody wants to be thinking ahead with me, will be deciding on a material for the body and mounting my motors/gears/wheels assembly to it. I'm thinking either thin plywood or plastic, and I'm leaning toward plastic since it looks more hi-tech. ;-) Either way, I'm going to have some trouble shaping it, since I have no scroll saw. I'll be using a hacksaw, and smoothing edges with my soon-to-be-purchased Dremel. (Or can I effectively cut a circle out of a piece of wood or plastic with my Dremel alone?) Thanks again for all your input, and thanks in advance for any more you all can provide! Randy $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.0066FFEC; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:45:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22322 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:33:26 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03125 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:45:41 -0500 Received: from port119.img.net ([207.34.144.123]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA573; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:50:27 -0700 Received: by port119.img.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BCAA31.86B109C0@port119.img.net>; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCAA31.86B109C0@port119.img.net> From: "Mairs, T." To: "'Monica Stewart'" , "BEAM (E-mail)" Subject: RE: My Education Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:55:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: RE: My Education PostedDate: 08/16/97 09:55:32 AM SendTo: nica@eskimo.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 11:45:03 AM-08/16/97 11:45:03 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 11:45:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Monica ! Go back to school, but don't stop playing and learning on your own. The BS in Math is a great foundation for this type of work. It will help you grasp the underlying fundamentals of the technology. You would be surprised how many people are working in the electronics industry with no concept of what they are doing. These days most everything is modular, so if something doesn't work you just locate it and replace the entire module. It's unfortunate because when you get interested in things like BEAM robotics, you HAVE to know the mechanics and physics behind the electronics if you want to get really creative. Sure, you can buy kits, and build stuff from newsgroups, but it's not as much fun if you only understand the HOW and not the WHY. I have a Technology Diploma in Electronics because I simply couldn't afford to get the BSEE at the time. I am considering challenging the course load now because I see people all around me that have twice the education, but can't do the job so I end up doing their work anyway. At least if I had the letters after my name I might get higher pay, or better opportunities. As it stands, I have gained a great deal of knowledge in Physics, Math, Computer Science, and Electronics by reading as many current text books as I can get my hands on, and then taking the tests that go with them. Having said all that, there is still nothing in the world that compares to creating something with your own hands, especially if it falls under the category of 'intelligent machine'. If your choice is between a 'silli-scope' and paying for school, go back to school. I have worked with electronics for 20 years and have only really needed an oscilloscope about a dozen times. Most of the time there are other ways to get the reading/information you need. And besides, I can send you plans for a scope you can build yourself for about $200. Yes, software is big in Washington. It is in British Columbia too, but to survive the next ten years, you are going to have to know both the hardware and software. The BEAM gurus are showing us that software and the conventional Von Neuman thinking may not be the only way. You may see the emergence, in the next few years, of BEAM type analog computers that are faster, smarter, and friendlier than what we know today. This is something I think you should consider. And that's my 2 cents worth. TOM http://www.img.net/aasland - Don't miss out.... -----Original Message----- From: Monica Stewart [SMTP:nica@eskimo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 1:30 PM To: beam@webconn.com Subject: My Education I've recently become truly infatuated with robots. I'm very intent on making the critters. Just made a solarengine recently. I'm sure I'll have a solar roller going soon. And I have many bizarre future plans, as I'm sure most of you do. What I want is a little advice as to whether I should go back to school to study electrical engineering. I have a B.Sci in Mathematics. I have spent my post-college years doing a variety of stupid jobs. Now I work in a small company's production area where I've become very comfortable working with my hands on a variety of machines (mostly large however) and have access to quite a few tools that might be useful for making robot bodies. I've been working my way through Horowitz & Hayes, The Art of Electronics, and have found that electronics seems to be something you can learn from a book. I've been tinkering on a breadboard lots, and can't help but think that investing in an oscillascope, and other goodies might be better for me than spending money on tuition. Here in Seattle there is the Seattle Robotics Society which I gather is a pretty good club for robot enthusiasts. It seems I have lots of resources outside of school. I've asked some on my friends what they think, but most of them just think I'm being a little goofy. And Seattle have something of a software bias, so they usually say that I should bone down on C++ and Java if I really want to get ahead. But I just want to get good a building robots. At the same time I worry that self-directed study could make my knowledge too uneven. I won't know what I don't know, so I won't study it. I bet some of you have opinions. You may want to respond to me at my email address if that would seem more appropriate. I hope this isn't too off topic. *********************************************************** // Pain drips -Sappho // *********************************************************** Monica Stewart nica@eskimo.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.00680583; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:56:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22328 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:44:27 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03122 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:45:34 -0500 Received: from port119.img.net ([207.34.144.123]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA222 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:50:21 -0700 Received: by port119.img.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BCAA31.6FE79A60@port119.img.net>; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:44:56 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCAA31.6FE79A60@port119.img.net> From: "Mairs, T." To: "beam@webconn.com" Subject: RE: motors Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:43:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: RE: motors PostedDate: 08/16/97 08:43:36 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 11:56:20 AM-08/16/97 11:56:21 AM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 11:56:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Scott Miller wrote: > Does anyone know how useful the motors in disk drives and hard > drives are? I just got my hands on a laptop and I just was wondering if > I should scrap it or keep it. Thanks in advance for any help. > > -Scott Miller > Keep it. Garrett Most definitely keep it ! TOM $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F5.006E9C03; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:08:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA22380 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:56:32 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03768 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:56:41 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts4ip134.cadvision.com [207.228.66.134]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id MAA90028 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:44:12 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970816130120.00cc3a7c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:01:20 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Oven Timer Unit Construction stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Oven Timer Unit Construction stuff PostedDate: 08/16/97 12:01:20 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 01:08:17 PM-08/16/97 01:08:18 PM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 01:08:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I'm being rushed out the door, but here's the raw graphics and some text Richard wrote to make Oven Timer units. http://www.solarbotics.com/otu Promise to have it in a fancy HTML format...later. The wife demands attention! -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.0012CA8D; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:25:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA22607 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:13:47 -0700 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06556 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:05:19 -0500 Received: from [10.0.2.15] (nica@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA19542 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:05:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: nica@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:07:17 -0800 To: beam@webconn.com From: nica@eskimo.com (Monica Stewart) Subject: Re: My Education SMTPOriginator: nica@eskimo.com From: nica@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My Education PostedDate: 08/16/97 08:07:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/16/97 08:25:24 PM-08/16/97 08:25:24 PM DeliveredDate: 08/16/97 08:25:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>At 02:03 AM 8/15/97 -0600, "Dan Stormont" wrote: >>[snip] >>>. . . I know I'll catch some hell from the hardcore BEAMers here, but I >>>think there's plenty of use for microprocessor controlled robots (and I'm >>>not convinced BEAM robots can do everything that the big, power-guzzling uP >>>robots can . . . [snip] >> >> "Arrrrrgh!" "Burn the heretic!" ;-) > >Heh. That's like saying "there's plenty of use for PCs, cause I'm not >convinced that calculators can do the job". > >Once again, the message of BEAM is not anti-processor, just >anti-complexity. As we usta say in the mail service, never use an uzi for >a .22 job. > >For example, if someone starts talking about their 6 leg walker with 18 >unibus DSPs running from a concurrent UNIX port to parallel VME platforms, >expect some long stares from BEAM designers. > >markt. I think some folks might feel more comfortable with some of the BEAM attitudes concerning microprocessors if they remember that the *A* in *BEAM* stands for *Aesthetics*. You might think of BEAM as a school of art! Like many schools of art, there are theories about why things are done as they are. The Cubists might have claimed that their style help give the viewer more viewpoints of an object than a more realists presentation, for instance. But ultimately, Picasso and Braque did what they did on canvas because it seemed right to them -- the art history arguments really don't matter against this. Similiarly, it seems right to some folks to avoid use of microprocessors. They may have some argument for this stance, but they really don't need it. By the way, this thread has really changed since I made a post asking advice about my education!....This is evolution that BEAMers should be proud of! *********************************************************** // Pain drips -Sappho // *********************************************************** Monica Stewart nica@eskimo.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.003BC805; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:52:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA22776 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:41:13 -0700 Received: from invfacty.factory.com (invfacty.factory.com [199.183.47.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA08753 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:58:56 -0500 Received: from murk.factory.com by invfacty.factory.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA10394; Sun, 17 Aug 97 05:55:42 -0400 Received: from factory.com by bbsnet with UUCP ; Sun, 17 Aug 97 05:51:18 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solar Cells From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) Message-Id: <341170.500.uupcb@factory.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 97 19:05:00 -0500 Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110 Reply-To: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) References: <19970815.190605.7807.5.nytwulf@juno.com> SMTPOriginator: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com Subject: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/16/97 05:05:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 03:53:09 AM-08/17/97 03:53:10 AM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 03:53:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either >low >Volt but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance Fwiw, I'm still trying to figure out what's the difference, above. >correct me if im wrong but doesnt a cell's voltage/amp output depend on >how you wire up the contacts across the surface? i.e. having a bunch of >these wires (cant rmeember what they are called) close together but >long.. you would get a higher voltage but less amperage.. where as short >ones with more space would give the opposete.. or something along those >lines? in such a way that you could get close to any combination of >voltage to amperage ratings as long as you had the same wattage... kinda >like wiring batteries in serial/parralell to get the same effect... Nope. A single PV cell is the same no matter how it's "wired". Only reason you see different patterns is in how the cell's intended to be used, whether high-current (fat collector lines) or not. Each cell is typically 0.55V open-circuit (no load) and drops down to about 0.45V under rated load under 1 sun radiance. How much current depends on the area of the cell itself given the same type of material and efficiency. You can connect *multiple* PV cells to get higher voltages, like series- connecting "batteries" (1 = cell, 2+ = battery), but generally speaking, you don't really connect PV cells in parallel. You *can*, but... eh. And fwiw, going back to an earlier post which may or may not have gotten out before, if you ever want to experiment with NiCd cells for storage, never, *NEVER*, connect them in parallel. Bad magic... --- . SLMR 2.0 #..jw . My inner child is tossing mashed potatoes at the ceiling. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.0047E422; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 06:05:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA22832 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:53:41 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09388 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:11:12 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco2-83.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.83]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA09725; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33F6EAFD.2C58@golden.net> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:13:49 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gene Kwiecinski CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Solar Cells References: <19970815.190605.7807.5.nytwulf@juno.com> <341170.500.uupcb@factory.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Solar Cells PostedDate: 08/17/97 05:13:49 AM SendTo: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 06:05:18 AM-08/17/97 06:05:19 AM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 06:05:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Gene Kwiecinski wrote: > > >>Cells are pretty impressive although they all seem to be either >low > >Volt but HIGH amp or HIGH amp low volt. for instance > > Fwiw, I'm still trying to figure out what's the difference, above. > High Current Low voltage is due to the fact that the cell is a large surface area for One cell... Current output is directly related to surface area available to the sun... Low current High Voltage is because the same sort of suface area is used for Many cells in series to create the voltage..... other differences include the fact that most high current cells are "Silicon Crystal" (the blue ones) and the voltage ones are Amorphous Silicon... The Crystal type are almost pure silicon and are capably of creating electricity over their Whole surface area..... The Amorphous type (calculator) use a lot of different doping materials to change the characteristics of the Silicon (thats why they are different colours such as brown or green) in addition the silicon material is Sintered to a glass substrate this cuts down on some of the light available and can also cause microscopic holes in the materials surface thus reducing the surface area.... Because of the doping and the stringing together of the cells the amorphous type have a better overall voltage rating over a broader range of light but there current is limited by the fact that the cells on the inside of the group have to push their current throught the internal resistance of the others... The crystal ones may put out a whack more current in bright light but they really suck indoors.... Plus they are a real pain to solder to and break as easy as a potato chip... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.005D4374; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:58:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22919 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:47:12 -0700 Received: from UPSMOT07 ([204.95.110.91]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10652 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:14:14 -0500 Received: from upmajb09 - 204.95.110.82 by msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:14:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 97 16:14:03 UT From: "Paul Beckingham" Message-Id: To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Parts Salvage SMTPOriginator: BECKINGHAM@msn.com From: BECKINGHAM@msn.com Subject: Parts Salvage PostedDate: 08/17/97 09:14:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 09:58:49 AM-08/17/97 09:58:49 AM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 09:58:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US My CD player died so I dismantled it, as the doctrine states. What I found inside was incredible - four motors (tray open, head mechanism raise/lower, track seeking and disc spin), a stack of gears and belts, twenty microswitches on the front, and several dozen large capacitors. The bottom of the enclosure is a flat metal plate, maybe 1/16" thick, and about a foot square. It was better than a trip to the store. On trash day, I think I'm going to go and cruise the neighborhood with the Raccoons. P. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.0069063D; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:07:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22964 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:55:28 -0700 Received: from upsmot02.msn.com (upsmot02.msn.com [204.95.110.79]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11338 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:17:08 -0500 Received: from upmajb06 ([204.95.110.89]) by upsmot02.msn.com (8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id LAA07716 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:12:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 97 16:22:51 UT From: "Paul Beckingham" Message-Id: To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Miniaturization SMTPOriginator: BECKINGHAM@msn.com From: BECKINGHAM@msn.com Subject: Miniaturization PostedDate: 08/17/97 09:22:51 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 12:07:13 PM-08/17/97 12:07:14 PM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 12:07:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Fellow beamers, does anyone out there lay claim to the smallest roller? Smallest photovore? I've been trying to make them smaller and smaller. I have a solarengine living on a square centimeter, photovore circuitry (minus cap and cell) on three square centimeters, and I am now building solarengines on the caps: .---------.______ | | xxx |_________|-------- ...between the pins, staying entirely within the radius of the cap. These are not very pretty, though. But is does mean that I am now just connecting cap, cell and motor together, is letting me substitute engines and cells to experiment. Is anyone else doing this? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.00718B8A; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:40:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23002 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:28:27 -0700 Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11993 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:49:54 -0500 Received: from default (1Cust54.max63.los-angeles.ca.ms.uu.net [153.34.101.182]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29673; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33F755DA.B90D8C35@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:49:47 -0700 From: "Scott R. Andress" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Beckingham CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Miniaturization X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: srandress@earthlink.net From: srandress@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Miniaturization PostedDate: 08/17/97 12:49:47 PM SendTo: BECKINGHAM@msn.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 01:40:15 PM-08/17/97 01:40:16 PM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 01:40:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Paul, I too aspire to make tiny little bots. My 'Flea' is small, but I don't know if its 'the smallest.' Still, its pretty close to fitting the circuits within the confines of the capacitor areas. Pix are on my web page... -Scott Andress my robotics page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8005/ [snip] does anyone out there lay claim to the smallest roller? Smallest photovore? I've been trying to make them smaller and smaller. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F6.0079276D; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:03:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23054 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:51:38 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12571 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:18:12 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net [204.191.136.8] by shell.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #11) id 0x0Ci2-0006ZW-00; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:18:02 -0400 Received: from ts54-15.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts54-15.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.62]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA05815 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708172118.RAA05815@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:56:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: miniaturization SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: miniaturization PostedDate: 08/17/97 01:56:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 03:03:26 PM-08/17/97 03:03:27 PM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 03:03:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Gang; I've never seen any "official records" for smallest / lightest SolarRoller, but from memory there are some pretty small circuits out there: Andrew Miller's design from Santa Fe (1995) Scott Martin's fleet from Calgary (1995) I've got a fairly light SolarEngine (on a *way* heavy 'Roller) that uses the HBS and surface mount components. Of course, Mark Tilden leads the pack with his BitBots, walkers that fit under the solar cell that power them!!! (not big solar cells either. ;-) ) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564F7.00084A81; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:30:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23182 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:07:06 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13229 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:27:15 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA13332 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:21:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:21:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny5-10.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.170) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011519; Sun Aug 17 18:17:24 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970817192319.34cfa89a@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: re: Miniaturization SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: re: Miniaturization PostedDate: 08/17/97 04:21:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 08/17/97 06:30:45 PM-08/17/97 06:30:46 PM DeliveredDate: 08/17/97 06:30:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well, it's not BEAM, but I do have a cute little *programmable* photovore that fits in a 3 cm cube. This includes