$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C7.004A78EA; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:33:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04828 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:22:42 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09627 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:29:50 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco7-165.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.165]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA21840; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33B8F885.67EB@golden.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:31:01 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kudos001@aol.com CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Solar Switch References: <970629103705_-560007160@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Solar Switch PostedDate: 07/01/97 05:31:01 AM SendTo: Kudos001@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 06:33:32 AM-07/01/97 06:33:32 AM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 06:33:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Kudos001@aol.com wrote: > > I hate working with diodes to charge the batteries of my robot. > You lose a lot of current through the diode. > Does anyone know a way to create a switch that closes the circuit > when there is sunlight, and opens the when it is dark? > If not, I am currently using a 1N4003, should I use a better kind? I can think of at least six circiuts that'd do the job for you but I hate ansi art.... to narrow it down why don't give us a better Idea of your ciriuts parameters... ie. Solar pannel voltage/current Battery V light conditions effish required etc... Sounds like you need a voltage dependant charge pump which can be done a Zillion different ways depending on what you've got to work with... I remind you all that Specific questions with as much detail as you can spare are likly to get answers faster.... thnks all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C7.004BCE41; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:48:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04859 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:37:15 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09670 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:34:26 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco7-165.cas.golden.net [207.216.76.165]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA22353; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33B8F998.7C0B@golden.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:35:36 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: garrett myrick CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: MicoroCore help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: MicoroCore help PostedDate: 07/01/97 05:35:36 AM SendTo: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 06:48:09 AM-07/01/97 06:48:10 AM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 06:48:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US intermittently. It is extreeeeeemly frustrating. Also, the driver chips > keep overheating, even with a bi-color LED in place of the motor. CAN What voltage are you using..... ALS Hates anything over 6V....... If you are running things at higher voltages then thats where your fade out and heat problem is... try 5V ... 7805 regulator available at Radio Shack $2... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C7.005873A5; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:06:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA05325 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:55:15 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11212 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:06:44 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA23602 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts46-03.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts46-03.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.178]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA02934 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707011506.LAA02934@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:53:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: MicoroCore help SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: MicoroCore help PostedDate: 07/01/97 07:53:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 09:06:18 AM-07/01/97 09:06:19 AM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 09:06:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:20 PM 6/30/97 -0700, garrett myrick wrote: >Oh, well, I guess I'll probably get it to walk someday... > >Well, I have been working on my 'bot for about a week or two pretty much >nonstop now. I have the MicroCore doing almost exactly like I want it to >now, except for one problem. It only works with the motors attached >intermittently. It is extreeeeeemly frustrating. Also, the driver chips >keep overheating, even with a bi-color LED in place of the motor. CAN >ANYONE HELP ME??????ANY help would be VERY apreciated. > >Garrett > Well the "overheating" drivers are a sign. :) Is it possible that you 'blasted' the drivers earlier, and they won't even drive the LED's now? You should still use a current-limiting resistor with each LED. (You knew that, right?) Make sure that the driver outputs are not 'shorting' on each other or to power or ground. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C7.005E8A4B; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:12:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05705 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:01:53 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11949 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:20:21 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA15832 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts46-03.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts15-13.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.236]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA19628 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707011620.MAA19628@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:07:03 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: BEAM FAQ & Technical FAQ SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: BEAM FAQ & Technical FAQ PostedDate: 07/01/97 09:07:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 10:12:43 AM-07/01/97 10:12:45 AM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 10:12:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Gang; I've just had a look at Brian Bush's web page. This is not the first time I have been there, but it has been a while. Brian has done a good job on the BEAM FAQ, and I find his Technical FAQ worthwhile. "Way to go!", Brian. Keep up the good work. Beginners will find the answers to many of their questions in these two pages. They can be found at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C7.006F9979; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:18:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA06393 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:08:11 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13592 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:22:50 -0500 Received: from ts39ip143.cadvision.com (ts75ip89.cadvision.com [207.228.113.89]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id NAA233250 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:18:26 -0600 Received: by ts39ip143.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8620.E36D5540@ts39ip143.cadvision.com>; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:15:47 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC8620.E36D5540@ts39ip143.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Inspirational quote Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:15:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Inspirational quote PostedDate: 07/01/97 12:15:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 01:19:07 PM-07/01/97 01:19:08 PM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 01:19:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US From the man that founded IBM, Thomas J. Watson "The way to succeed is to double your failure rate." Just thought a few people needed some "boost" to get them back from not having to build a robot, but building it because they love it. Btw, I'm building an underwater autonomous robot, so far it ain't autonomous, sonar is what I want to use, just because It can make sure the robot doesn't slam into an object. I'm thinking of using an stamp board (little wires sticking out of an underwater robot don't really promote good safety, well if you didn't know that, you should). Hopefully It will be somewhat solar powered, I might be able to buy about a 1 foot long solar cell that's in a cylinder shape. But if I did use solar power I would need them custom made, I mean you don't really find oval cells which are waterproofed. The gearing is from an old fishing reel (I could use one of Dave's pager motors and it would be flying around in the water), I know the motors can't be over 10 V because this thing would be going 60 KPH. I would hate to be a fish, boat, dolphin, whale, alligator, that got ran into by it. [robot-mode off] I find that diablo is a great stress reliever, buy it sometime Later, Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C8.00156C4B; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:53:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA11597 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:43:16 -0700 From: lring@cts.com Received: from mh1.cts.com (mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17019 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:51:10 -0500 Received: from slring.cts.com (lring.cts.com [204.94.75.93]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA20691 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707020250.TAA20691@mh1.cts.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: beam@webconn.com Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:48:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: stepper motors Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) SMTPOriginator: lring@cts.com From: lring@cts.com Subject: stepper motors PostedDate: 07/01/97 12:48:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/01/97 08:54:05 PM-07/01/97 08:54:05 PM DeliveredDate: 07/01/97 08:54:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi there everyone, I have a small question or two about stepper motors. First, do stepper motors need to be geared down if using a microcore and secondly, is $6.00 a good price for a 5vdc low current 1.8 degree motor? Thanks for the help, Scott $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C8.00689BBF; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:02:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA13490 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:51:39 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24458 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:05:09 -0500 Received: from scotty.bogon.com [207.6.172.36] by wu.bogon.com with esmtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wjTm1-0001i1-00; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:05:01 -0700 From: "Scott Martin" To: Subject: Re: stepper motors Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:03:23 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: Re: stepper motors PostedDate: 07/02/97 11:03:23 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/02/97 12:02:42 PM-07/02/97 12:02:43 PM DeliveredDate: 07/02/97 12:02:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ---------- > From: lring@cts.com > To: beam@webconn.com > Subject: stepper motors > Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 12:48 PM > > Hi there everyone, > > I have a small question or two about stepper motors. First, do > stepper motors need to be geared down if using a microcore.... Depends on the application, mostly yes. >... and secondly, is $6.00 a good price for a 5vdc low current 1.8 degree > motor? > > Thanks for the help, > > Scott > Could be. What are it's dimensions. If its too big, it won't be of much use( again, that depends on the application in mind ). In the past, people like Richard W. have found some rather small ones, but smaller is not allways better ether. The best way to know if it's a good deal is to buy one and test it. If it works nice, go buy more to keep you happy for awhile and/or let us know on the list, so we can buy some. ScottyDogma $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.00180B8C; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 21:22:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15360 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 21:11:52 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29307 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:23:55 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA23002 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts28-13.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts28-13.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.28]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA11122 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707030324.XAA11122@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 23:10:15 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: stepper motors SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: stepper motors PostedDate: 07/02/97 08:10:15 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/02/97 09:22:46 PM-07/02/97 09:22:47 PM DeliveredDate: 07/02/97 09:22:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:48 PM 7/1/97 +0000, lring@cts.com wrote: >Hi there everyone, > >I have a small question or two about stepper motors. First, do >stepper motors need to be geared down if using a microcore and >secondly, is $6.00 a good price for a 5vdc low current 1.8 degree >motor? > >Thanks for the help, > >Scott > Gearing, . . . how about an "absolute maybe?" It really depends on the motor and the application. In general, less gearing than a DC motor. Also, in general, but a near certainty, motor driver chips; steppers can be real current hogs. Now, when _they_ say "low current" how low do they mean? I'd love to see some 5mA per winding 5V steppers. . . Ah yes, but who among us wouldn't? :-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.003606B9; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 02:50:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA15681 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 02:39:18 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA32213 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:18:08 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id MpA01819; Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:12:32 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM Ideas Message-ID: <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,9-10,16-21,32-43,51-61 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:12:32 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/02/97 09:12:32 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 02:50:08 AM-07/03/97 02:50:10 AM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 02:50:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello everyone. I have a few ideas, and i'd like to see what you think of them. Instead of having 4 Nv neurons in a simple walker, why not make a device with, say, 40 Nv neurons with one tenth of the time value, 10 for each motor direction instead of one. Wouldn't this create a more complete internal world representation? Instead of just having sensation of the entire movement, it would have incremental sensation, and would thusly be able to percieve more of its environmental complexity. Has anyone tried this? If so were the results favorable? I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. I have a few ideas on how this could be done. The plants would be rather large, and have several large capacitors (for example 10 x 10F). Externally, they would would have a large column with serrations on it like gears. Here is a little ascii diagram to explain what I am talking about. 1 2 /\ /\ /\ / \/ \/ \ The serrations 1 would contain conductive material. Every other serration would be attached to +, and the same for -. Thus the pattern would be +-+-+-.... These would be connected the the devices capacitor bank. The plants would also be either colored a certain way, or have some other way of attracting 'animals'. The animals would be hooked up up with external gears around their radius like the plants. On the animals however, the peaks (2) would have conductive material on them. The gears would be assembled so that when an animal bumped into a plant, the gears would mesh and charge would transfer. Since the animal would not be able to decide which polarity it would get it would have to use a rectifier bridge. This would work like so... /\ /\ /\ /\ / |\/ |\/ |\/ |\ | |__ | __| |_______| | | +__ | ___ | /\ | | |_/~~\_| Capacitor \ / | -\/_______| With this arrangement, when the animal bumped into a plant it would charge its own capacitors (it would have more than plants). It would function similair to a photovore, bieng that it would be attracted to light. But in this situation the sensor would be covered with filters that made it only attract to the color of 'plants'. Thus it would seek plants. It would have to be designed so that once it has charged, it would have to become non "herbitropic" temporarily to prevent it from continuisly trying to charge on the same plant. Well, I hope I didn't bore you too much. What do you think? . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu . $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.0042FEAF; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:11:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15809 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:01:00 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:30:29 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id CJY01819; Thu, 03 Jul 1997 02:40:18 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Microcore help... Message-ID: <19970702.234233.10086.1.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-18 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 02:40:18 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Re: Microcore help... PostedDate: 07/02/97 11:40:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 05:11:50 AM-07/03/97 05:11:51 AM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 05:11:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I don't know if this will help, but when I had a similair problem. When I attached motors the bot worked for a couple of seconds and then died. I fixed it quite easily by adding a 1uF capacitor across the power leads. The reason for this is because sometimes when one of the chips switches, it draws a lot of power. This can interfere with the other circuitry. I think the reason I didn't have a problem with this before I added the motors was because the motors drew too much current away from the circuit. Hope this helps. Also, I know you've probably already checked this, but are your motors reversible? Some motors I have seen are mechanically designed to go in only one way. This would definately explain the "spinning". Good luck... . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu . $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.00438EDC; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:17:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15815 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:07:09 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00702 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:33:14 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA13571 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts42-10.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts42-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.25]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA03827 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707031133.HAA03827@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 07:19:32 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/03/97 04:19:32 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 05:17:58 AM-07/03/97 05:17:59 AM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 05:17:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:12 PM 7/2/97 EDT, phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) wrote: >Hello everyone. I have a few ideas, and i'd like to see what you think >of them. > >Instead of having 4 Nv neurons in a simple walker, why not make a device >with, say, 40 Nv neurons with one tenth of the time value, 10 for each >motor direction instead of one. [snip] Hmm, neat idea. I haven't heard of anyone trying this, so it sounds like you had better get building. :-) The only 'sticking point' I see immediately is 'or-ing' the outputs together. . . Would you do the 'OR' at the motor (and have 10*motor-drivers) or at the MicroCore output? (and trust the MicroCore to know where to apply the feedback) Let us know how it goes. > >I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a >robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. [snip] I like your suggestion for a power transfer mechanism. Looking at it from a biological standpoint though, what's in in for the plants? Unless we are 'pollinating' them, I think the 'herbivores' are getting the better end of the deal. :-) > >Well, I hope I didn't bore you too much. What do you think? Not at all. Interesting (vegetarian?) food for thought. > >[John Hess] >4516 W. Paradise Ln. >Glendale, AZ 85306 >(602) 978 8179 >cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.004CCC3F; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:58:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15958 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:47:49 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00720 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:35:18 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id MoZ01819; Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:12:32 EDT To: BEAM@Webconn.com Subject: Schematics, pics, etc.... Message-ID: <19970702.091507.9086.0.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,8,12-14,16,18,20,22,24,26-28,30,32,34-37,39,41, 43,45,47,49,51-667 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:12:32 EDT $FILE: $FILE: SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Schematics, pics, etc.... PostedDate: 07/02/97 09:12:32 AM SendTo: BEAM@Webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 06:58:51 AM-07/03/97 06:58:52 AM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 06:58:52 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The following is a microcore schematic that I drew in my spare time. It was done in DOS on an IBM. To view it properly you need to either view it in DOS or use a font that emulates the extended IBM character set. In windows, such a font would be called Terminal. I hope you Enjoy. This schematic is an auto stabalizing two motor walker design using 4Nvs. It also includes the driver chip required (specifically a 74HCT245). After the text schematic, I have included 2 UUENCODED graphics in .gif format. The first, Mcore.gif, is a graphical form of this schematic. The second, walkbot.gif, is a rendering of what a two motor walker would look like. If anyone wants to put any of this material on their website, you have my blessing. ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ???????????????????? ? ? ? ? ? ???? ? ? ? ? ? ?????? ???????????????? ? ? ? ? ??? ???? ? ? ???? ???? ???? ? ? ???? +3v???????? ????? ? ??? ???? ? ? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ? ? ? ?????? ? ? ? ??? ? ???? ?? ? ? ? ???? ? ? ? Gnd?????? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???? ???? ? ? ???? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ??? ? ????????????????? ? ? ?? 74HCT14 ?? ? ???? This part is the actual Microcore ? ????????????????? ? controller. The capacitors (?) are ? ??? ??? ??? ? ? ? ? .22uF, and the resistors (?) are 1M?. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ????? ? The top most capacitor is 2.2uF. The ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  is a switching diode. ? ? ????????????????? ? ??? ??? ??? ? ????? ??????? ? ? ? ??? ? This part is the driver that powers the ? ??? ? ??? ??? ??? ??? ? motors (A Microcore alone can't drive ? ??????????????????????? most motors). The Ms are the Motors. ? ?? 74HCT245 ?? ???? They should be high efficiency geared ? ??????????????????????? motors that run at about 30rpm. Mount ? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? one in the front and one in the back. ? ? ?????M??? ? The front one should be tilted up at ? ????M???? ? 30 degrees. ??????????????????????? THIS BEGINS THE UUENCODED GRAPHICS... - mcore.gif - walkbot.gif . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.004DAF5A; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:08:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15977 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:57:45 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01960 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:34:19 -0500 Received: from aasland ([207.34.144.113]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA253; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:37:21 -0700 From: "Mairs, T." To: , "Sylvie Wetherup" , "Wade Webb" , "Ralph Webb" , , "Maureen Taylor" , "Bugden, Susan" , , , "Dwight Sick" , , "Mike Pearce" , , , "Chuck Neufeld" , "Peggy Ness" , "Norman Nelson" , , "Lynn Minshull" , "Paul mellen" , "Edis, Melinda" , "Jerry McNicholas" , , "Brian Mairs" , "Mail Boxes Etc." , , "Larry Keddie" , "Ashland, Joanne" , , "Hutzcal, Jason" , , "Neil Jamieson" , , "Mike Ingraham" , , "Tese and Barry Gruntman" , , , , "Barrie Coxe" , "Herb Cornish" , "Jeff & Caryn Cook" , , , "Christina" , "Skaha Chiropractic" , , "Sigrid Boersma" , "Gus Boersma" , "Colin or Pete Biagioni" , "BEAM" , "Paul Basso" , "Doug Bailey" , "Gord Anderson" , "Cronie, Allan" , , "Jarle Aasland" Subject: Web Site Update Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:32:16 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970703133702449.AAA253@aasland> SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: Web Site Update PostedDate: 07/03/97 06:32:16 AM SendTo: wk@img.net,sylvie@bcyellowpages.com,wade_webb@realtyworld.ca,ralph_webb@realtyworld.ca,tmarchant@img.net,maureen_taylor@realtyworld.ca,susan@img.net,sun-west@img.net,stwaring@vip.net,Dwight_Sick@bc.sympatico.ca,sentchev@vip.net,mpearce@awinc.com,peachfest@img.net,pderrick@vip.net,chuck_neufeld@realtyworld.ca,p_e_n@bc.sympatico.ca,nan@dowco.com,mspeedy@vip.net,lminshull@img.net,Paul_mellen@bc.sympatico.ca,melinda@img.net,econo@interaccess.com,mbowland@vip.net,bmairs@silk.net,MBE#78@img.net,kooks@img.net,lkeddie@agt.net,JAshland@isc.jsc.nasa.gov,jlewko@vip.net,jhutzcal@img.net,jared@img.net,njamieso@vip.net,invest@vip.net,mike@vip.net,harvest@img.net,BarryGruntman@nvancvr.schdist44.bcca,graley@img.net,doslund@img.net,dgarnett@vip.net,bcoxe@img.net,herb_cornish@bc.sympatico.ca,cooks@silk.net,connolly@img.net,cirrus@vip.net,christina@arista.nisa.com,skahachiropractic@img.net,ccornett@img.net,sigrid_boersma@realtyworld.ca,gus_boersma@realtyworld.ca,cbiagioni@img.net,beam@webconn.com,paul_basso@realtyworld.ca,dbailey@smartt.com,FLAMEROO@msn.com,acronie@img.net,adventures@img.net,j.a.aasland@usit.uio.no $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 07:08:52 AM-07/03/97 07:08:54 AM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 07:08:54 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US OK! Links are fixed - some new ones added. JavaScript actually works :-) July Feature is out Client and employee areas are still under construction, but they will be restricted areas anyhow so drop by and see the new site. If you like it, or if you want to add a link, have a suggestion for a feature, or whatever, let me know at aasland@img.net TOM Tom Mairs Aasland Technologies Don't miss out - http://www.img.net/aasland/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.0068E3F7; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:05:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA16670 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:54:37 -0700 Received: from aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (aupair.cs.athabascau.ca [131.232.10.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03556 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:23:26 -0500 Received: from stud1.acad.athabascau.ca(really [131.232.11.44]) by aupair.cs.athabascau.ca via smtpd with smtp id for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Jun-10) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:25:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Ramsden X-Sender: markr@stud1.acad.athabascau.ca To: Richard Weait cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas In-Reply-To: <199707031133.HAA03827@inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: markr@cs.athabascau.ca From: markr@cs.athabascau.ca Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/03/97 09:25:54 AM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 12:05:44 PM-07/03/97 12:05:45 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 12:05:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > >I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a > >robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. > [snip] > > I like your suggestion for a power transfer mechanism. > Looking at it from a biological standpoint though, what's > in in for the plants? Unless we are 'pollinating' them, > I think the 'herbivores' are getting the better end of > the deal. :-) > That's where we get to have the heavy hand in biology: the plants don't have to get anything out of it. They just do it. :) In practical terms, this sort of thing could have applications. In areas (such as cleaning under the couch) where there is little to no light, robotic flora could gather power while workers did the job. The workers would use the flora as refueling stations. There could even be robotic red blood cells: robots simply going from flora to fauna delivering energy. There could be some real power in robotic interactions. > > > >Well, I hope I didn't bore you too much. What do you think? > > Not at all. Interesting (vegetarian?) food for thought. > > > Agreed. :) -- Mark Ramsden $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.006CFE96; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:50:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16759 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:39:39 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05034 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:06:15 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10172 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:10:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Oops Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Oops PostedDate: 07/03/97 12:00:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 12:50:39 PM-07/03/97 12:50:40 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 12:50:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US That last message I sent(Motors, Speedy Cockroach), I actually meant _Thirsty_, not Sunspot. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.006D6BCF; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:55:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16782 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:44:21 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04951 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:01:39 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10012 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:05:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:55:14 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Motors, Speedy Cockroach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Motors, Speedy Cockroach PostedDate: 07/03/97 11:55:14 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 12:55:15 PM-07/03/97 12:55:15 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 12:55:15 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yes, I have yet another question about motors. Number One: where did those nice motors and gearboxes on Sunspot(not the Sunspot 1.3, with the circuit boards on its feet) come from? And Number Two: Where did the motors on Cockroach come from? Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.007CBEE8; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:42:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA17145 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:31:46 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06928 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:13:00 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA21850 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts6-01.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts56-14.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.29]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA10004 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707032213.SAA10004@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:59:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Motors, Speedy Cockroach SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Motors, Speedy Cockroach PostedDate: 07/03/97 02:59:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 03:42:39 PM-07/03/97 03:42:41 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 03:42:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:55 AM 7/3/97 -0700, garrett myrick wrote: >Yes, I have yet another question about motors. Number One: where did those >nice motors and gearboxes on Sunspot(not the Sunspot 1.3, with the circuit >boards on its feet) come from? And Number Two: Where did the motors on >Cockroach come from? > >Garrett > > > > [and later added . . .] > >That last message I sent(Motors, Speedy Cockroach), I actually >meant >_Thirsty_, not Sunspot. > >Garrett > > I'm sure that you've noticed the similarities in the gearboxes on the two robots? Both are made from the "stove timer" mechanisms that were available, a whle back, at a surplus place in Toronto. . . Sadly they were out of stock last time I looked. These things are (were) very flexible as seen in the two applications that you spotted. Mike T's "Speedy Cockroach" (Does it have a _shorter_ name, Mike?) is very fast, high tourque, battery powered and runs with the pager motors that we all know and love. "Thirsty" runs on a higher gear ratio, at lower speed, since the surplus super-low-current motors have very low torque. Either way, I'm sorry that I don't have a pointer to the stove timers for you; if any of you run into some of these, make sure you let the rest of us know. . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564C9.007EF30F; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:06:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA17179 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:55:50 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07306 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:48:41 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA23890; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:48:36 -0500 Received: from Plifetel.execpc.com (kheprha.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.109]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA05266; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:48:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33BCD42B.5749@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 05:44:59 -0500 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Reply-To: webwerx@execpc.com Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tcrobots@orbis.net, mars-talk@footfalls.com CC: srs@seattlerobotics.org, beam@webconn.com Subject: Auton. underwater vehicles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Auton. underwater vehicles PostedDate: 07/04/97 03:44:59 AM SendTo: tcrobots@orbis.net,mars-talk@footfalls.com CopyTo: srs@seattlerobotics.org,beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: webwerx@execpc.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 04:06:59 PM-07/03/97 04:06:59 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 04:06:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Most robot builders work on mobile and walker robots. A few developers, however, have addressed another challenge: autonomous underwater vehicles. This research requires new sensors and special concern to mechanical details. With one major mistake, an expensive AUV could be lost at sea. These web sites provide an introduction to AUV research and show some of the problems that remain. Down to the Sea in Robots (8 page article) by J. Robert Fricke Excellent introduction to AUV navigation, communication, sensors, and potential research applications. It also discusses some of the problems that developers still face. http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena/org/t/techreview/www/articles/oct94/searobot.html Autonomouse Underwater Vehicles Lab Looks at the MIT Sea Grant AUV programs. These sections have hardware information: Vehicles, Robo-lobster, and Hermes. As a miniature AUV, Hermes provides a look at what amateur robotics groups could build. It has two thrusters and a 32-bit microcomputer. The entire AUV is only 30 inches long. http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena/org/seagrant/www/auv.htm Cranfield AUV Learn how an ex-Navy Deep Mobile Target can be turned into an AUV. http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/sims/marine/sea/auv.htm Autosub Autosub News describes some of the tests AUV developers can expect to perform. The articles lack technical details, however, and just seem to be progress reports. http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk/OTD/asub/cotdasub.html Misc. AUV sites with some links http://www.acim.usi.edu/ACIM/auv.html http://wuv-www.tamu.edu/ http://bronte.umcs.maine.edu/auv-page.html http://www.cs.nps.navy.mil/research/auv/auv.html http://cimar.me.ufl.edu/~asme/contests/uuv.html Overall, the AUV web sites have not been updated since late 1996. This could signal a lack of progress or desire for competition security. Has anyone thought about making an autonomous jellyfish or squid? You could even build a mantaray using walker robot technology. These designs would be more mobile--and less intimidating--than autonomous torpedos. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.000F8A7C; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:49:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA17449 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:38:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09314 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:25:22 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA12760 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts47-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts47-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.163]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA26408 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707040225.WAA26408@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 22:11:34 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Toronto Meeting Update (short) SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Toronto Meeting Update (short) PostedDate: 07/03/97 07:11:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 07:49:50 PM-07/03/97 07:49:50 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 07:49:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Gang; The Toronto meeting has been confirmed for: Saturday 09 August 1997. Time is still set for 12:00 noon until 5:00 p.m. Please e-mail me directly for more details: crs0274@inforamp.net You may remember, from my earlier posts that we will be getting together to build / start / complete our current BEAM projects. There will be time for each of us to "Show and Tell", but mostly we will build. Bring your soldering irons, parts boxes, hand tools, and assorted supplies for building. Bring an extension cord. There will be no charge for entry, as the hall was donated. But you must book, in advance, so that I can provide enough tables and chairs. Food and beverages are available in easy walking distance. You will not want to miss this chance to build with other BEAM'ers. The synergy of co-operative building has to be experienced! Cheers, Richard. P.S. Remember to reply to me directly, rather than to the list, regarding this meeting. -RW $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.00233823; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:24:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17615 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:13:53 -0700 From: probey@mail.kamloops.net Received: from okjunc.junction.net (okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA11039 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:43:31 -0500 Received: from kamloops-01.kamloops.net (kamloops-01.kamloops.net [206.87.120.129]) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA13746 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:43:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970703223855.22a79712@mail.kamloops.net> X-Sender: probey@mail.kamloops.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 22:38:55 To: beam@webconn.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: probey@mail.kamloops.net From: probey@mail.kamloops.net PostedDate: 07/03/97 03:38:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 11:24:51 PM-07/03/97 11:24:52 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 11:24:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I joined this e-mail list because I am interested in robotics, however I know next to nothing on building them, I am wondering if someone could direct me to a good start-up place for me to begin learning. Like, any books that helped you enormously and/or information on the web. Thanks alot, and sorry if this is inappropriate in the e-mail list. James $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.00240920; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:33:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17627 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:22:47 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11184 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:57:42 -0500 Received: from aasland ([207.34.144.202]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAB230; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:00:47 -0700 From: "Mairs, T." To: "BEAM" , "John H. Hess III" Subject: Re: Schematics, pics, etc.... Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:52:50 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970704060043657.AAB230@aasland> SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: Re: Schematics, pics, etc.... PostedDate: 07/03/97 10:52:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,phractal@juno.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/03/97 11:33:42 PM-07/03/97 11:33:42 PM DeliveredDate: 07/03/97 11:33:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Thanks for the microcore schematic, however, I am confused. In the GIF, it says "All Capacitors except C2 are .22uF. C2 is .22uF." So which is it. assuming that you have simply shifted a decimal, is C2 really .022uF, .22uF, 2.2uF, or 22uF ? Or is it something completely different. And where did you get the motors ? Tom Mairs Aasland Technologies Don't miss out - http://www.img.net/aasland/ ---------- > From: John H. Hess III > To: BEAM@Webconn.com > Subject: Schematics, pics, etc.... > Date: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 9:12 AM > > The following is a microcore schematic that I drew in my spare time. It > was done in DOS on an IBM. To view it properly you need to either view > it in DOS or use a font that emulates the extended IBM character set. In > windows, such a font would be called Terminal. I hope you Enjoy. This > schematic is an auto stabalizing two motor walker design using 4Nvs. It > also includes the driver chip required (specifically a 74HCT245). > > After the text schematic, I have included 2 UUENCODED graphics in .gif > format. > The first, Mcore.gif, is a graphical form of this schematic. The second, > walkbot.gif, is a rendering of what a two motor walker would look like. > If anyone wants to put any of this material on their website, you have my > blessing. > <> > > > . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. > . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 > ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 > .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.002B7D0B; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:55:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA17705 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:44:13 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12110 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 02:20:47 -0500 Received: from ts40ip177.cadvision.com (ts40ip177.cadvision.com [207.228.71.177]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id BAA97462; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:16:22 -0600 Received: by ts40ip177.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8817.5735CBE0@ts40ip177.cadvision.com>; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:12:28 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC8817.5735CBE0@ts40ip177.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'probey@mail.kamloops.net'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:12:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Re: PostedDate: 07/04/97 12:12:21 AM SendTo: probey@mail.kamloops.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 12:55:11 AM-07/04/97 12:55:12 AM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 12:55:12 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Hi, I joined this e-mail list because I am interested in robotics There's a lot of people who are interested in robotics that drives them to you guessed it build robots, if your looking for some of them who have gained the "title" of gods (in our minds) their reading this sometime soon. Maybe some of us "peasants" can hopefully build up to that.... >, however I know next to nothing on building them, The good thing is that your in this time line, other wise people would still have to invent some of the parts you use. Building is nothing more than just plain imagination. >I am wondering if someone could direct me to a good start-up place for me to begin learning. Like, any books that helped you enormously and/or information on the web. There is however a bit of electronic know-how that you do need, the book(s) you need are anything by Forest Mims the third. He's not at all like forest gump, just his way of teaching electronics is more less serious. That author has well changed my life, which was recommended to me by Dave Hrynkiw (don't even ask how to pronounce it) one of the "gods". You should be able to buy them at radio shack... Beam robotics is the BEST place to start if you are eager to learn and have fun, it's simple. [Shameless Solarbotics ploy mode on] Well dave "smith" sells a lot of great supplies, his web page is at www.solarbotics.com [Shameless Solarbotics Ploy mode off >Thanks alot, and sorry if this is inappropriate in the e-mail list. Yes James you have come to the wrong place, this is totally inappropriate... Email lacks one's ability to use sarcasm. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.005C131E; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:45:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA18094 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:34:36 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16722 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:55:33 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA12616 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:55:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:55:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny1-22.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.54) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012607; Fri Jul 4 10:55:12 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970704120037.33076cec@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: gear shaft thingys SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: gear shaft thingys PostedDate: 07/04/97 08:55:22 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 09:45:45 AM-07/04/97 09:45:46 AM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 09:45:46 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Does anyone know where I can get small gear shafts that have a threaded stud on one end? They usually have a shoulder that sits against the mounting bracket. I've seen them on some of the small robots offered by OWI. __ : : : : shaft : : _ : : _ :........: shoulder :: :: threaded stud Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.00601EF5; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:29:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA18115 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:19:00 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17107 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:27:54 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA24791; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:27:40 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (pappardelle.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.204]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA11107; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:27:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33BD209F.5243@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 09:11:11 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: probey@mail.kamloops.net CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Getting Started References: <3.0.1.16.19970703223855.22a79712@mail.kamloops.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Re: Getting Started PostedDate: 07/04/97 09:11:11 AM SendTo: probey@mail.kamloops.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 10:29:59 AM-07/04/97 10:30:00 AM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 10:30:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US probey@mail.kamloops.net wrote: > > Hi, I joined this e-mail list because I am interested in robotics, however > I know next to nothing on building them, I am wondering if someone could > direct me to a good start-up place for me to begin learning. Like, any > books that helped you enormously and/or information on the web. Hi James: Welcome to the list. You'll find "Getting Started" information on the Kristech Robot Magazine web site (www.robotmag.com). These books will make your life easier: 1. Mobile Robots: Inspiration to Implementation 2. Robot Builders Bonanza 3. Any book by Forrest M. Mimms In addition to BEAM robots, you should also build CYBUGs. These robots look like beetles and move like hamsters. You can learn more at http://www.nucleus.com/~cybug/Cybug1.htm You've joined a GREAT list and are part of a new revolution. Glad to have you aboard. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.006F2BC5; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:14:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18223 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:03:12 -0700 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net (relay-13.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.137]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19102 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 14:51:26 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021553; 4 Jul 97 20:42 BST Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:07:30 +0100 To: "John H. Hess III" Cc: beam@webconn.com From: Bob Mottram Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas In-Reply-To: <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/03/97 01:07:30 PM SendTo: phractal@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 01:14:19 PM-07/04/97 01:14:20 PM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 01:14:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In message <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com>, "John H. Hess III" writes >Instead of having 4 Nv neurons in a simple walker, why not make a device >with, say, 40 Nv neurons with one tenth of the time value, 10 for each >motor direction instead of one. Wouldn't this create a more complete >internal world representation? Instead of just having sensation of the >entire movement, it would have incremental sensation, and would thusly be >able to percieve more of its environmental complexity. Has anyone tried >this? If so were the results favorable? I think that this has been done already (correct me if I'm wrong) with more complicated walkers like the 'Spider' shown on Dave's site. At the core you've got the same basic 4 or 6 Nvs which produce the basic 'pacemaker' rhythm. Each of these Nvs is in turn connected to a similar oscillating system dedicated to controling the movements of each leg. >I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a >robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. I have a few >ideas on how this could be done. The plants would be rather large, and >have several large capacitors (for example 10 x 10F). Externally, they >would would have a large column with serrations on it like gears. Here >is a little ascii diagram to explain what I am talking about. > > 1 2 > /\ /\ /\ > / \/ \/ \ > Nice idea. What about the robot having a couple of antennae to connect with either side of the corregation for recharging. Altering the relative size of the antennae to the corregation should eliminate the need for a more elaborate setup in order to avoid connecting to the wrong polarities... [horrible ASCII diagram follows] /\ +// \\- +// \\- +// \ / \\- <-- corregation / || \ || <------ Robot Bob out. -- Bob Mottram "The way to succeed is to double your failure rate" www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CA.00806105; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:22:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18368 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:11:09 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20761 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:50:45 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA26959 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts76-08.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts76-08.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.151]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02393 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707042250.SAA02393@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 18:36:45 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Beginners (was Re: ) SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Beginners (was Re: ) PostedDate: 07/04/97 03:36:45 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 04:22:17 PM-07/04/97 04:22:19 PM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 04:22:19 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:38 PM 7/3/97, probey@mail.kamloops.net wrote: >Hi, I joined this e-mail list because I am interested in robotics, however >I know next to nothing on building them, I am wondering if someone could >direct me to a good start-up place for me to begin learning. Like, any >books that helped you enormously and/or information on the web. Thanks >alot, and sorry if this is inappropriate in the e-mail list. > >James > > > > Hi James; No, your post is not inappropriate. That is something that you can get a feel for on a mailing list, or a newsgroup by "lurking", or just reading for a few weeks before submitting anything. Where to start, well that is pretty general. It really depends where you are starting from, like when you ask for directions. So what have you built, or what would you like to build? Some good places to get beginner info. regarding BEAM robotics are the following websites: http://www.solarbotics.com http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html Definately, read the FAQ (frequently asked questions) at the second URL. Solarbotics has several kits to get you started, regardless of your experience. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CB.0018013D; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:22:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18504 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:11:19 -0700 Received: from cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca (cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca [142.110.131.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23386 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:47:22 -0500 Received: from DN-RELAY by cgate.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #20584) id <01IKUR20QR4G8WWFQF@cgate.sait.ab.ca> for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:47:16 MST Received: from el.sait.ab.ca (silica.el.sait.ab.ca) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #15163) with SMTP id <01IKUQT4TY7G8WWD5N@acdm.sait.ab.ca>; Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by el.sait.ab.ca (SMI-8.6/EL-NNL-SAIT-SMI-SVR4) id VAA01040; Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:38:04 -0600 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:38:04 -0600 (MDT) From: "Craig Maynard (EE)" Subject: Robotic Food Chain In-reply-to: To: Mark Ramsden Cc: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca From: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca Subject: Robotic Food Chain PostedDate: 07/04/97 08:38:04 PM SendTo: markr@cs.athabascau.ca CopyTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 09:22:22 PM-07/04/97 09:22:23 PM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 09:22:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark: The robotic food-chain thread was about three/four months ago when I was talking about a new robot I've invented called the CYBUG ( Now a kit!). These little robots have a hunger instinct which allows them to seek out food sources ( typically solar powered plants ) when their on-board energy reserves fall to low, and let the robot perform it's normal behaviour ( under cpu or whatever motivation the designer set up ) when the energy levels are high! The base instincts and reflexes use no microprocessor, but higher levels of intelligence may be added. The CYBUGS's can be adjusted to be herbavores, preditors, or omnivore and operate at a very high energy level! I've got some pictures and tips on my home page ( www.nucleus.com/~cybug ). It makes a very interesting and visual challenge! Craig On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Mark Ramsden wrote: > > > > > >I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a > > >robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. > > [snip] > > > > I like your suggestion for a power transfer mechanism. > > Looking at it from a biological standpoint though, what's > > in in for the plants? Unless we are 'pollinating' them, > > I think the 'herbivores' are getting the better end of > > the deal. :-) > > > > That's where we get to have the heavy hand in biology: the plants don't > have to get anything out of it. They just do it. :) > > In practical terms, this sort of thing could have applications. In areas > (such as cleaning under the couch) where there is little to no light, > robotic flora could gather power while workers did the job. The workers > would use the flora as refueling stations. There could even be robotic > red blood cells: robots simply going from flora to fauna delivering > energy. > > There could be some real power in robotic interactions. > > > > > > >Well, I hope I didn't bore you too much. What do you think? > > > > Not at all. Interesting (vegetarian?) food for thought. > > > > > > Agreed. :) > > -- > Mark Ramsden > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CB.0018B8F9; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:30:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18513 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:19:15 -0700 Received: from cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca (cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca [142.110.131.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23437 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:52:19 -0500 Received: from DN-RELAY by cgate.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #20584) id <01IKUR8NG8HC8WWFQF@cgate.sait.ab.ca> for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:52:32 MST Received: from el.sait.ab.ca (silica.el.sait.ab.ca) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #15163) with SMTP id <01IKUR8VSQ4U8WWD5N@acdm.sait.ab.ca>; Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by el.sait.ab.ca (SMI-8.6/EL-NNL-SAIT-SMI-SVR4) id VAA01074; Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:50:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:50:48 -0600 (MDT) From: "Craig Maynard (EE)" Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas In-reply-to: To: Bob Mottram Cc: "John H. Hess III" , beam@webconn.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca From: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/04/97 08:50:48 PM SendTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk CopyTo: phractal@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/04/97 09:30:12 PM-07/04/97 09:30:13 PM DeliveredDate: 07/04/97 09:30:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The best feeding mechanism I have experimented with is a simple "bumper car" power technique. A stiff wire antenna reaches upwards to a charged metallic plate above the robot, and another brushes an aluminum foil carpet below ( which is grounded ). This power should be coupled to a large capacitor for primary storage, and then ( if you choose ) trickled off from the capacitor to a longer term storage ( nicad maybe? ) through a current regulator such as a 78L05 ( limited to about 10mA ) This method has been very successful for me and my bugs! Craig Maynard www.nucleus.com/~cybug On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Bob Mottram wrote: > In message <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com>, "John H. Hess > III" writes > > >Instead of having 4 Nv neurons in a simple walker, why not make a device > >with, say, 40 Nv neurons with one tenth of the time value, 10 for each > >motor direction instead of one. Wouldn't this create a more complete > >internal world representation? Instead of just having sensation of the > >entire movement, it would have incremental sensation, and would thusly be > >able to percieve more of its environmental complexity. Has anyone tried > >this? If so were the results favorable? > > I think that this has been done already (correct me if I'm wrong) > with more complicated walkers like the 'Spider' shown on Dave's site. > > At the core you've got the same basic 4 or 6 Nvs which produce the > basic 'pacemaker' rhythm. Each of these Nvs is in turn connected to > a similar oscillating system dedicated to controling the movements > of each leg. > > >I think I remember hearind someone on this list discuss creating a > >robotic food chain, with 'animals' feeding off of plants. I have a few > >ideas on how this could be done. The plants would be rather large, and > >have several large capacitors (for example 10 x 10F). Externally, they > >would would have a large column with serrations on it like gears. Here > >is a little ascii diagram to explain what I am talking about. > > > > 1 2 > > /\ /\ /\ > > / \/ \/ \ > > > > > Nice idea. What about the robot having a couple of antennae to connect > with either side of the corregation for recharging. Altering the > relative size of the antennae to the corregation should eliminate > the need for a more elaborate setup in order to avoid connecting > to the wrong polarities... > > [horrible ASCII diagram follows] > > /\ > +// \\- > +// \\- > +// \ / \\- <-- corregation > / || \ > || <------ Robot > > Bob out. > > -- > Bob Mottram > "The way to succeed is to double your failure rate" > www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CB.006F4D97; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:15:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18874 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:04:50 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32057 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:37:03 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id POF15239; Sat, 05 Jul 1997 15:36:08 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re: Schematics... Message-ID: <19970705.123923.9318.0.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-17,19-21 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 15:36:08 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Re: re: Schematics... PostedDate: 07/05/97 12:36:08 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 01:15:46 PM-07/05/97 01:15:46 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 01:15:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US As a few of you have pointed out I made a mistake in my microcore schematic. C2 should be 2.2uF. The value of this capacitor is higher because it is part of the auto-PNC (thanks for showing me how to do this Richard). It has to be higher because the auto-PNC "holds" a process in one of the neurons (one of the motors will spin for a few seconds when powered on because of this). It has to be able to hold the process long enough for the other process to "collide" into the held process, thus eliminating it. By the way, does anyone know of a way to turn off the motors until automatic stabilization has occured? Maybe I could hook up the negative power supply lead for the driver chip into the output of the auto-PNC trigger. I'll let you know if this works when I try it. . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu P.S. Does anyone know of a good (free???) schematic drawing/PCB layout program???? Thanks. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CB.007036B4; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:25:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18879 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:14:52 -0700 Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net (denmark-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32204 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:49:01 -0500 Received: from default (1Cust18.Max64.Los-Angeles.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.102.18]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16641 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BEA541.880E32D8@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 12:49:21 -0700 From: "Scott R. Andress" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: My frist photovore-and it works too! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 SMTPOriginator: srandress@earthlink.net From: srandress@earthlink.net Subject: My frist photovore-and it works too! PostedDate: 07/05/97 12:49:21 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 01:25:48 PM-07/05/97 01:25:49 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 01:25:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well, I've been successful with my first photovore. Boy, this stuff is really fun. Actually, I've already rebuilt him using a different frame so the first incarnation is no longer. If anyone is interested in seeing pix, I've put together a little web page. I'll post images of my creations as they come about. I also put a few BEAM related links on there as well (if there are some I forgot to include, let me know). If you like, check out: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8005/ Right now I'm anxiously awaiting for more parts to arrive so I can continue... Scott Andress srandress@earthlink.net http://www.earthlink.net/~srandress/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CB.0070C8C7; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:31:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18891 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:21:05 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32053 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:36:59 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id POH15239; Sat, 05 Jul 1997 15:36:08 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Interesting construction techniques. Message-ID: <19970705.123923.9318.2.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-15 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 15:36:08 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Interesting construction techniques. PostedDate: 07/05/97 12:36:08 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 01:32:05 PM-07/05/97 01:32:06 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 01:32:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have recently thought up a new way to make smaller beam bots. I don't know if it would work, seeing as I don't have all the materials yet. My idea is to make the solar cell the PCB. What I would do is glue (Epoxy?) a small sheet of copper to the back of a solar cell. Then you could draw the schematic right onto the copper. Also you would probably have to cover the solar cell leads with something (I don't know their composition). Any components would have to be surface mounted. Does this sound feasible? I'll be trying it soon if I can get the copper sheeting (where does one go to get that sort of thing?). Hmm... I wonder if tin foil would work... . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu . $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.000AE967; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:59:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA19022 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:48:21 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02995 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:44:55 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA06389 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts73-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts13-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.41]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA16054 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707060145.VAA16054@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 21:30:50 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Interesting construction techniques. SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Interesting construction techniques. PostedDate: 07/05/97 06:30:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 06:59:13 PM-07/05/97 06:59:14 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 06:59:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:36 PM 7/5/97 EDT, phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) wrote: >I have recently thought up a new way to make smaller beam bots. I don't >know if it would work, seeing as I don't have all the materials yet. My >idea is to make the solar cell the PCB. What I would do is glue (Epoxy?) >a small sheet of copper to the back of a solar cell. Then you could draw >the schematic right onto the copper. Also you would probably have to >cover the solar cell leads with something (I don't know their >composition). Any components would have to be surface mounted. Does >this sound feasible? I'll be trying it soon if I can get the copper >sheeting (where does one go to get that sort of thing?). Hmm... I wonder >if tin foil would work... > Neat idea. There are a few examples of this technique running around (pun intended) already. Mark T.'s BitBots come to mind. I will, at times, just stick a small PCB to the back of a solar cell with double-sided foam tape. A solder bridge provides power. . . The surface mount stuff is okay, too. It can be done at home, without an army of white-lab-coated NASA employees, and huge military budgets (it's just less fun that way :-) ) And I find it requires brighter lights while I'm working. It is a shame that surface mount components tend to come _only_ in large quantities, though. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.000AECF2; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:59:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA19025 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:48:32 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02992 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:44:53 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA06383 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts73-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts13-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.41]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA15975 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707060145.VAA15975@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 21:30:47 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: re: Schematics... SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: re: Schematics... PostedDate: 07/05/97 06:30:47 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 06:59:24 PM-07/05/97 06:59:24 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 06:59:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:36 PM 7/5/97 EDT, phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) wrote: [snip] >[. . .] By the way, does anyone know of a way to turn off the >motors until automatic stabilization has occured? Maybe I could hook up >the negative power supply lead for the driver chip into the output of the >auto-PNC trigger. I'll let you know if this works when I try it. > In order for this (above) to work, your PNC will have to source (sink) enough current for your motor driver. . . That is, chip current _plus_ motor current; not likely, I think, otherwise we wouldn't need motor driver chips, we would just use PNC's :-) Which motor driver are you using? (leading question) "Does it have an enable?" There isn't anything wrong with leaving a motor spinning while the PNC is active; you just have to allow for that in the design. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.000E236F; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 19:34:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19037 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 19:23:23 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03402 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:05:34 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.243] (dialup24.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.243]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06483; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:22:38 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:09:40 -0400 To: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III), beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Re: re: Schematics... SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: re: Schematics... PostedDate: 07/05/97 07:09:40 PM SendTo: phractal@juno.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/05/97 07:34:36 PM-07/05/97 07:34:37 PM DeliveredDate: 07/05/97 07:34:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Why don't you utilize the enable pin on the 74HCT245, it is pin 19 i think. i have a two-inverter oscillator-that Richard pointed used in Thirsty, that uses the (E)nable pin to prevent a motor for turning (and valuable energy from leaving, which you should worry about if you are solarizing it). Cheers, Brian >As a few of you have pointed out I made a mistake in my microcore >schematic. C2 should be 2.2uF. The value of this capacitor is higher >because it is part of the auto-PNC (thanks for showing me how to do this >Richard). It has to be higher because the auto-PNC "holds" a process in >one of the neurons (one of the motors will spin for a few seconds when >powered on because of this). It has to be able to hold the process long >enough for the other process to "collide" into the held process, thus >eliminating it. By the way, does anyone know of a way to turn off the >motors until automatic stabilization has occured? Maybe I could hook up >the negative power supply lead for the driver chip into the output of the >auto-PNC trigger. I'll let you know if this works when I try it. --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.0060E900; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:38:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19330 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:27:24 -0700 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17938 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:20:45 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6.Beta3) id LAA27403; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:20:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (maccheroni.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.199]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA21306; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:20:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33BFD2C3.5182@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 10:15:47 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tcrobots@orbis.net, mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org, beam@webconn.com, robot-board@cmf.nrl.navy.mil, handyboard@media.mit.edu CC: INTERLITH@aol.com Subject: Auton. underwater vehicles #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Auton. underwater vehicles #2 PostedDate: 07/06/97 10:15:47 AM SendTo: tcrobots@orbis.net,mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org,beam@webconn.com,robot-board@cmf.nrl.navy.mil,handyboard@media.mit.edu CopyTo: INTERLITH@aol.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 10:38:38 AM-07/06/97 10:38:38 AM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 10:38:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Here are more web sites that provide useful underwater vehicle information: Unmanned Underwater Vehicle Society (UUVS) at U of Florida This student group had the only functioning AUV during the 1996 AUVSI Annual Symposium and Exhibition. Although their web site isn't detailed, it shows the main hardware that they used. http://www.me.ufl.edu/UUVS/ UUV Prototypes: Roby, Roby2, and Romeo Tethered ROVs that use a master/slave system to communicate with the control console. This page shows technical specifications and sensor lists. http://www.ian.ge.cnr.it/robotics/vehicle.htm ROV.NET: ROV's and Underwater Technology This site is devoted to tethered underwater vehicles. It has an ROV FAQ and tells how to build an ROV. ROV.NET also runs a discussion group. WARNING: Thanks to Javascript/Java animations, this site crashed our Netscape 2.1 system when we printed some pages. http://www.rov.net/main.html Build Your Own ROV http://www.rov.net/pages/Rokit_1.htm DRIP (Dinky Robot in Pool) This AUV operates as a photovore and follows light sources. It has a PVC pipe body and cost under $1000 to build. Special thanks to Randy Sargent (Newton Labs) for this tip. http://www.kipr.org/robots/drip.html Military Robotics (sample issue) (8 pages) Where have all the AUV's gone? They were drafted. Learn how AUV's will perform mine clearing and other special applications. http://www.newsnet.com/libiss/de14.html Autonomous Underwater Vehicles Resources (7 pages) Excellent list of annotated links by country. http://www.acim.usl.edu/~maja/AUV/AUV-list.html Successful AUV's, like divers, must control their bouyancy. Scuba divers, for example, can go from floating in place (neutral bouyancy) to sinking by just adding a pound to their weight belt. These web pages show how bouyancy control applies Archamedies' and Boyle's Laws: Learning to Dive Part 2: (6 pages) Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Bouyancy Control and Weighting by Rick Williams http://www.scubacentral.com/about/learn_to_dive2.html How Subs Dive Short discussion about ballast tanks. http://www.omsi.edu/explore/sub/work.html Finally, learn how nature's designs can lead to efficient motion for air and water vehicles: Hydro and Aerodynamics of Animal Swimming and Flight (5 pages) by G. R. Spedding Excellent material. It's especially useful for people that hope to build unique flying robots. http://ostrich.usc.edu/rsg/bfd/biofluid_index.html RoboTuna Learn about David Barrett's thesis project at MIT. This web page includes a reading list and links to articles about the project. http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena/org/t/towtank/www/tuna/ Principles of Aeronautics: Aerodynamics of Animals Section: Marine Life (5 pages) The other sections discuss flying dinosaurs, insects, birds, and bats. http://muttley.ucdavis.edu/Book/Animals/instructor/marine-01.html Photos of Sting Rays Design inspiration for those of us that don't live near the ocean http://www.belize.com/ray1.html http://www.belize.com/ray2.html Interested in building an autonomous jellyfish or squid? ANIMALS WITHOUT BACKBONES provides a wonderful look at invertebrate anatomy. You'll learn about flukes, clams, spiders, and other creatures. It's easy-to-read and full of drawings and photos. Animals Without Backbones (Third Edition) by Ralph Buchsbaum, Mildred Buchsbaum, John Pearse, and Vicki Pearse Published by the University of Chicago Press in 1987 ISBN 0-226-07873-6 You can order this book from Barnes and Noble or Amazon Books (www.amazon.com). Besides research and military applications, underwater robots can perform fun tasks. The BEAM robotics group, for example, plans to hold Aquavore competitions. These solar-powered robots must swim across a 55-gallon fish tank with a six-inch high wall at midpoint. The robot "must either swim under or crawl/jump/fly over" the wall to reach the finish line. http://nis-www.lanl.gov/robot/events.html You can also build a Loch Ness monster, shark prank, or underwater trash tagger. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.006FF6F3; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:22:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19418 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:12:07 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA23065 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:50:51 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.220] (dialup01.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.220]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17490 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:08:04 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 15:55:01 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/06/97 12:55:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 01:23:08 PM-07/06/97 01:23:09 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 01:23:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello aficionados of Nv Net tech, I have been wondering for quite sometime about Nu neurons mentioned in "Living Machines", under Figure 5; it says that "Nu neurons first filter the activation signals in the Nv net to regulate gait processes, and secondly effect a change in the topological Nv structure to allow the robot a backup ability." Basically, my interpretation of this is that an Nu neuron, would be similar to this: [ascii art, use proportional font to view properly] from last----||----*----|>o---------O neuron C1 | U1 Out | > < > Rt < | Gnd where Rt would be a parallel combination of resistors R1 and R2, depicted below: | ---*--- | | R1 > R2 > < < > > < < | | | | | :| N.O. Switch-touch sensor, or CdS cell | | ---*--- | If the sensor (which could also be a CdS cell) ends up lowering the resistance of Rt, then processes going through this Nv neuron do so with less delay (depicted as a - in Figure 5 of "Living Machines"). AND if the sensor ends up increasing the overall resistance of Rt, this creates a longer delay for processes traveling through this neuron (depicted as a + in Figure 5 of "Living Machines"). This satisfies the first requirement: "filter the activation signals in the Nv net to regulate gait processes." as for the second requirement: "effect a change in the topological Nv structure to allow the robot a backup ability," is easily solved by a simple RC timer and an inverter to the MUX reverse enable. Dave H, you said that there has been a few (or one) 74x244 in a MUX config ascii'd up on the list, but i have found none in the archive. anyone? (the secret is out, My data books don't have the 74x244 :) So, my question or just confirmation, is this part or all of a Nu neuron? If so, what am i missing conceptually? Cheers, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CC.007993D0; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 15:07:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA19473 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:57:07 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25920 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:47:27 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA10399 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts8-07.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts61-13.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.172]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA15659 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707062147.RAA15659@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 17:33:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/06/97 02:33:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 03:08:05 PM-07/06/97 03:08:06 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 03:08:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:55 PM 7/6/97 -0400, bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) wrote: >Hello aficionados of Nv Net tech, > [snip] [> . . .] (the secret is out, My >data books don't have the 74x244 :) You will find, below, the 74xx244 info as found the "Great Internet IC Masturbator" at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~falstaff [begin quote] 74244 Dual 4-bit 3-state noninverting buffer/line driver. +---+--+---+ /1OE |1 +--+ 20| VCC 1A1 |2 19| /2OE 2Y4 |3 18| 1Y1 1A2 |4 17| 2A4 2Y3 |5 74 16| 1Y2 1A3 |6 244 15| 2A3 2Y2 |7 14| 1Y3 1A4 |8 13| 2A2 2Y1 |9 12| 1Y4 GND |10 11| 2A1 +----------+ [end quote] Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.0016ECCB; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:10:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19692 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:59:34 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02155 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:48:55 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.249] (dialup30.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.249]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA24752 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:06:15 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:53:09 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Book: Principia Robotica? SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Book: Principia Robotica? PostedDate: 07/06/97 08:53:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 09:10:27 PM-07/06/97 09:10:27 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 09:10:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello. In looking through the beam list archive, I found a note that Mark Tilden. It was about a book called "Principia Robotica", and had some biomech stuff in it. Anyone have an ISBN number, author, and etc.? Does anyone have the book? how is it? Thanks, Brian >Mark Tilden wrote on 11/14/96: > >"Principa Robotica" does. Chapter by chapter how-to and why for each >aspect of biomech assembly. Unfortunately, the advanced walkers are based >on a new control paradigm that I'm having trouble making understandable. >Details pending. > >markt. --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.0024D781; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:42:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA19826 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:31:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05865 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:19:45 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip39.cadvision.com [207.228.74.39]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA241540; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:15:17 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970707000205.00b5cd24@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 00:02:05 -0600 To: Bob Mottram , "John H. Hess III" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: References: <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM Ideas PostedDate: 07/06/97 11:02:05 PM SendTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk,phractal@juno.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 11:42:31 PM-07/06/97 11:42:33 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 11:42:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:07 PM 7/3/97 +0100, Bob Mottram wrote: >In message <19970702.091509.9086.1.phractal@juno.com>, "John H. Hess >III" writes > >>Instead of having 4 Nv neurons in a simple walker, why not make a device >>with, say, 40 Nv neurons with one tenth of the time value . . . >I think that this has been done already (correct me if I'm wrong) >with more complicated walkers like the 'Spider' shown on Dave's site. Consider yourself corrected. I don't think anybody's tried this approach yet (interesting concept, tho). As for Mark's Spyder, I think it has a "dead-end" uCore for each leg, each triggered _once_ by a central uCore. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.0024E182; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:42:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA19829 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:32:01 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05862 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:19:37 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip39.cadvision.com [207.228.74.39]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA05440; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:15:09 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970706235316.00779fbc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:53:16 -0600 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: gear shaft thingys In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970704120037.33076cec@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: gear shaft thingys PostedDate: 07/06/97 10:53:16 PM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 11:43:02 PM-07/06/97 11:43:02 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 11:43:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:55 AM 7/4/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >Does anyone know where I can get small gear shafts that have a threaded stud >on one end? They usually have a shoulder that sits against the mounting >bracket. I've seen them on some of the small robots offered by OWI. > > __ > : : > : : shaft > : : > _ : : _ > :........: shoulder > :: > :: threaded stud If the shaft portion is drilled out and has a set screw, yes, I know where you can get them..... Ok, ok, I'll tell. Look for R/C Car motor "Prop Nut" adaptors at any decent hobbie store. They're used to convert R/C car motors into being able to spin propellers. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.0024FF6C; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:44:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA19843 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:33:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05881 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:20:10 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts57ip39.cadvision.com [207.228.74.39]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA06744; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:15:44 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970707002611.007359c4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 00:26:11 -0600 To: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/06/97 11:26:11 PM SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/06/97 11:44:13 PM-07/06/97 11:44:14 PM DeliveredDate: 07/06/97 11:44:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:55 PM 7/6/97 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >as for the second requirement: "effect a change in the topological Nv >structure to allow the robot a backup ability," is easily solved by a >simple RC timer and an inverter to the MUX reverse enable. Dave H, you said >that there has been a few (or one) 74x244 in a MUX config ascii'd up on the >list, but i have found none in the archive. anyone? (the secret is out, My >data books don't have the 74x244 :) "Buuurrrp - uh...did I say that? Um, y'see, that was in the days I worked for the US Government on building robot spy boats out of ice'n'sawdust during WWII...Can't discuss it, y'unnerstan..." Seriously, I'm not the one to ask about the MUX config. I recall seeing it _someplace_ but am not sure where. Couldn't a simple analog switch chip do the same thing on less pins? Just reversing the two connections makes a two-motor device walk backwards. If nothing else, pick on Richard or Miller. They're my walking robot *HEROS* ;-> ;-> ;-> (They are smart - they can make it go) -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.0029E5CE; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:37:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19910 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:26:49 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07063 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:01:29 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DrY08411; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 03:00:16 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re: Schematics... Message-ID: <19970707.000303.9582.0.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-17,19-21 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 03:00:16 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Re: re: Schematics... PostedDate: 07/07/97 12:00:16 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 12:37:49 AM-07/07/97 12:37:49 AM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 12:37:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US As a few of you have pointed out I made a mistake in my microcore schematic. C2 should be 2.2uF. The value of this capacitor is higher because it is part of the auto-PNC (thanks for showing me how to do this Richard). It has to be higher because the auto-PNC "holds" a process in one of the neurons (one of the motors will spin for a few seconds when powered on because of this). It has to be able to hold the process long enough for the other process to "collide" into the held process, thus eliminating it. By the way, does anyone know of a way to turn off the motors until automatic stabilization has occured? Maybe I could hook up the negative power supply lead for the driver chip into the output of the auto-PNC trigger. I'll let you know if this works when I try it. . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu P.S. Does anyone know of a good (free???) schematic drawing/PCB layout program???? Thanks. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CD.002ABF78; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:46:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19917 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:36:06 -0700 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07061 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:01:25 -0500 Received: (from phractal@juno.com) by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DsA08411; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 03:00:16 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Interesting construction techniques. Message-ID: <19970707.000304.9582.2.phractal@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-15 From: phractal@juno.com (John H. Hess III) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 03:00:16 EDT SMTPOriginator: phractal@juno.com From: phractal@juno.com Subject: Interesting construction techniques. PostedDate: 07/07/97 12:00:16 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 12:47:00 AM-07/07/97 12:47:00 AM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 12:47:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have recently thought up a new way to make smaller beam bots. I don't know if it would work, seeing as I don't have all the materials yet. My idea is to make the solar cell the PCB. What I would do is glue (Epoxy?) a small sheet of copper to the back of a solar cell. Then you could draw the schematic right onto the copper. Also you would probably have to cover the solar cell leads with something (I don't know their composition). Any components would have to be surface mounted. Does this sound feasible? I'll be trying it soon if I can get the copper sheeting (where does one go to get that sort of thing?). Hmm... I wonder if tin foil would work... . __ __ __ __ 4516 W. Paradise Ln. . __ / /__ / / ___ / // /__ ___ ___ Glendale, AZ 85306 ./ // / _ \/ _ \/ _ \ / _ / -_|_-<(_-< (602) 978 8179 .\___/\___/_//_/_//_/ /_//_/\__/___/___/ cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu . $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.000355F1; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:36:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22881 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:25:34 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA32646 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:46:50 -0500 Received: from ts72ip84.cadvision.com (ts72ip84.cadvision.com [207.228.76.84]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA03268 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:42:14 -0600 Received: by ts72ip84.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8AFC.8E95B9A0@ts72ip84.cadvision.com>; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:38:18 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC8AFC.8E95B9A0@ts72ip84.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: "Wired" magazine: nanotech Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:38:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: "Wired" magazine: nanotech PostedDate: 07/07/97 04:38:08 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 05:36:42 PM-07/07/97 05:36:43 PM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 05:36:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Recently Wired (I'm picturing people thinking "Those damn kids and their loud music") wrote an article on predictions in the future, one of them was that the first commercially available nanotech products would appear around 2015. But also just after nanotech becomes available they predict that average human life expectancy will become 120.My great great grandmother was 107 (she passed away last winter) , all she did was sit in her wheel chair, sleep, eat, and gargle and mumble words, sometimes cursing in French. Her gums deteriorated until about the point when she chewed her jaw came about 1 cm from her nose. Now if she was 13 years younger than what's expected, imagine how much industry Kevorkian might get. I personally would not have a limb made out of one of MY robots, what do they think is going to keep the electronics (and lead) away from blood, moisture, and overheating. You thought athletes foot was painful, how would you think about having the same feeling in your arm, except your arm IS actually burning. Though a lot can change in 17 years, remember what personal computing was like in 1980 compared to now. Robotics has gone along way, but I think it needs longer before nanotech will be safe, tested, inexpensive, and light. Those don't make a good combination, for it to be lighter, use alloys, price goes up, use cheaper medals , less cost, but a limb has the chance to rust, snapoff, and other fantastic terrors. I think when the time comes you shouldn't buy the K-mart special on nanotech. Yes I do think I buy way to many magazines, but it's a hell of'a lot better than watching MSNBC hearing some people talk about things they don't even know about, except for the fact that it's in their script. That's my 320 word essay (if you count these words too : ) ) Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.000BAF90; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:07:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23210 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:56:39 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03179 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:31:31 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA14839 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts52-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts52-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.83]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA27018 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707080131.VAA27018@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 21:17:02 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/07/97 06:17:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 07:07:44 PM-07/07/97 07:07:44 PM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 07:07:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >At 03:55 PM 7/6/97 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: [in all sincerity] >>as for the second requirement: "effect a change in the topological Nv >>structure to allow the robot a backup ability," is easily solved by a >>simple RC timer and an inverter to the MUX reverse enable. Dave H, you said >>that there has been a few (or one) 74x244 in a MUX config ascii'd up on the >>list, but i have found none in the archive. anyone? (the secret is out, My >>data books don't have the 74x244 :) > At 12:26 AM 7/7/97 -0600, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: [Warning: It is "Stampede Days" time in Calgary now; You won't find anyone sober in the entire _Province_! Ignore everything Dave types, unitl further notice!!!! (grin, I think)] >tall grass up to knees> > >"Buuurrrp - uh...did I say that? Um, y'see, that was in the days I worked >for the US Government on building robot spy boats out of ice'n'sawdust >during WWII...Can't discuss it, y'unnerstan..." Dave goes on with more psychotic ramblings. I presume that it is just the result of "Open Bar Days" in Calgary, and not an indication of long-term personality change. I mean, at one point he actually said something _nice_ about the people that are going to buy shares in his company and squeeze him out. Cheers, "Shareholder" Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.000BC5A2; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:08:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23213 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:57:18 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03175 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:31:26 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA14780 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts52-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts52-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.83]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA26758 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707080131.VAA26758@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 21:16:53 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Book: Principia Robotica? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Book: Principia Robotica? PostedDate: 07/07/97 06:16:53 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 07:08:45 PM-07/07/97 07:08:46 PM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 07:08:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:53 PM 7/6/97 -0400, bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) wrote: > >Hello. > >In looking through the beam list archive, I found a note that Mark Tilden. >It was about a book called "Principia Robotica", and had some biomech stuff >in it. > [snip] >>Mark Tilden wrote on 11/14/96: >> >>"Principa Robotica" does. [. . .] >>Details pending. >> >>markt. Well, "details pending" still. . . Mark T. will let us know when it is available, but for now we aren't supposed to nag. :) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.000D6E22; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:26:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA23247 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:15:34 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03420 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:39:35 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05901 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:43:19 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:33:13 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Walkman, Lobster Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Walkman, Lobster PostedDate: 07/07/97 06:33:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/07/97 07:26:47 PM-07/07/97 07:26:47 PM DeliveredDate: 07/07/97 07:26:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I had a question about Walkman and Lobster. First, about Walkman, it has five motors, right? How are those motors laid out on the robot? How does its legs move to make it walk? It is a quadruped, right? And about Lobster, how many legs? How many motors? Whats the leg movement? Does anyone have a _clear_ picture of it? Whats the motor layout? Oh yeah, and whats the difference between a nervous net and a neural net anyway(schematics if you have em, please)? Garrett P.S. Anyone know where I can download(or get any way) a free breadboarding program? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.0049E1E7; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:26:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA24000 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:16:05 -0700 Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30114 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:44:58 -0500 Received: from ccshst01.cs.uoguelph.ca by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA069425895; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:44:55 -0400 Received: from localhost by ccshst01 with SMTP (1.37.109.20/16.2) id AA138915898; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:44:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: David M Barker X-Sender: dbarker@ccshst01 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: walker and timing Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: dbarker@uoguelph.ca From: dbarker@uoguelph.ca Subject: walker and timing PostedDate: 07/08/97 05:44:58 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 06:27:05 AM-07/08/97 06:27:06 AM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 06:27:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Can anyone tell me how well matched the resistors need to be to avoid bias in leg motion? My walker's legs go too far in one direction (on both motors) so the legs tend to ratchet around in a circle. The ultimate consequence is the thing takes a couple of wobbly steps and promptly rolls over on its back. I think I'm using resistors with a tolerance of 10 per cent. Incidentally, this play dead behaviour has me thinking about adding a righting mechanism that would consist of a gravity switch that could tell it when it finds itself on its back (under normal circumstances, due to uneven terrain) and activate a motor to move a couple of "legs" on the back that would lever it up and flip it over. I saw a real bug do this the other day using its wing covers while the walking legs waved madly in the air. Anybody done this? Thanks David *------------------------------------------------------------------* David M. Barker ! How we spend our days is, Department of Zoology ! of course, how we spend our University of Guelph ! lives. What we do with this Guelph, Ontario, Canada ! hour, and that one, is what N1G 2W1 ! we are doing. Ph 519-824-4120 x3831 ! Annie Dillard FAX 519-767-1656 ! ! Remember, wherever you go, ! there you are. ! Buckaroo Banzai *-------------------------------------------------------------------* $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.00628CC8; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:56:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24928 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:45:26 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02601 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:58:14 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA15734 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:57:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:57:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny17-03.ix.netcom.com(206.214.105.195) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma015723; Tue Jul 8 10:57:24 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970708120350.335fcc56@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Conrad motors SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Conrad motors PostedDate: 07/08/97 08:57:40 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 10:56:35 AM-07/08/97 10:56:36 AM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 10:56:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well, I just got some of the Conrad tiny gearmotors, and it's easy to see why the Robbe motors were three times the cost: they're three times better constructed! As A. Miller stated, it's very easy to strip the gears on the Conrad gearboxes. However, I have a 1000:1 Robbe gearmotor (approx 15rpm) that seems much better made. I can turn the shaft by hand without the gears stripping, and it seems to work fine on a small (3.5 inches long) walker. Also, the Conrad motors I received have a small pulley press fitted onto the shaft which I have not yet tried to remove. Anyway, I'll still be happy to order the Conrad motors for you through Steve Bolt, but I thought you might want to know what they're like. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.0067F9A2; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:55:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA25277 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:43:50 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04141 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:37:40 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-06.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.7]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id TAA04905 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:37:27 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:41:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Conrad motors In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970708120350.335fcc56@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Conrad motors PostedDate: 07/08/97 10:41:42 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 11:55:49 AM-07/08/97 11:55:49 AM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 11:55:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US )On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > Also, the Conrad motors I received have a small pulley press fitted onto the > shaft which I have not yet tried to remove. The pulley has a shaft-like end, which is precisely the right diameter for press-fitting one of the plastic gears I mentioned. Therefore removing the pulley is not necessary, and I would not recommend trying that, as the output shaft has only one bearing, which is press-fitted in the frame of the motor. In fact, when press-fitting the plastic gear, you should carefully support that pulley. As to quality: the little Bertsch geared motors mentioned here are very well made, very efficient, and at about $11.- quite cheap. Their internal gearbox does contain some tiny plastic gears. This makes the higher than 96.4:1 gear ratio motors unsuitable for walking `bots - as I've already mentioned several times. When used with care and understanding, they are very good indeed. Several photos on my page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html) show use of these motors in the `Spider'. Nothing you can do to the legs of this critter will harm those motors, and they use very little power to move the `bot (around 17 mA at 3.6 V, that is 61 mW on a flat surface, rising to less than double that in the most difficult terrain). I have no stake in Conrad or Bertsch; I just hate to see these lovely motors treated with less than the respect they deserve. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.006C2CA8; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:41:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA25480 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:30:36 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04275 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:58:29 -0500 Received: from ts72ip84.cadvision.com (ts72ip84.cadvision.com [207.228.76.84]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA42888 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:54:02 -0600 Received: by ts72ip84.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8B95.1E798680@ts72ip84.cadvision.com>; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:50:23 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC8B95.1E798680@ts72ip84.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: AUV progress Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:50:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: AUV progress PostedDate: 07/08/97 10:50:17 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 12:41:45 PM-07/08/97 12:41:45 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 12:41:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The prototype isn't anywhere near completion, I am stuck with the fact that 1. Budget problems 2.Lack of AUV experience 3. I'm not gonna settle for another torpedo shaped robot (I have almost solved that with a "ufo" type shape, except it won't abduct people so they can share their story with hardcopy and it will be underwater). But hard work at the lab ( kneeling at the edge of my bathtub while holding a water proofed motor and a 9v battery) looks like it has paid off. What it might look like, well umm it kina looks like the enterprise, except it is a lot smaller. With two motors I only need 2 elevator and no rudders, because of this I am not trying this in a natural body of water. All I need is a passing yacht to slam into it. I'll keep an update on it about once ever few weeks. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.006E09A4; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:01:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA25542 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:50:52 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04808 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:13:55 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA15968 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970708151305_257019266@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: walker and timing SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: Re: walker and timing PostedDate: 07/08/97 12:13:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 01:02:00 PM-07/08/97 01:02:00 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 01:02:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Can anyone tell me how well matched the resistors need to be to >avoid bias in leg motion? My walker's legs go too far in one direction >(on both motors) so the legs tend to ratchet around in a circle. The ultimate >consequence is the thing takes a couple of wobbly steps and promptly rolls >over on its back. I think I'm using resistors with a tolerance of 10 per >cent. Ten percent tolerance resistors seem close enough to provide an even gait. I had the same problem as you when I built my first walker, too. There's a couple of ways you could fix your problem: -Rebend the legs so that your walker will "settle in" to it's gait. You need to bend the leg so that the legs will automatically settle into it's stance when it is just sitting. -Put physical limit stops on the frame so that the legs can only move a certain amount before they hit the stops. If you set the stops in such a way that the legs can hit the stops and the bot doesn't fall, the robot will never fall over under normal walking. If the legs get a little uncoordinated, the will just hit the stops and be "reset". -Attach some tactile sensors that will shorten the time delay of the current pulse. Bend the sensor around the leg so that the leg will trigger the sensor when the leg has traveled to far. The sensor will shorten the pulse and keep the leg from moving outside the acceptable limits. The circuit looks like so (Generic ASCII art Warning): Tactile Sensor | | | Input from----||----*----|>o---------O last neuron C1 | U1 Out | > < > R1 < | Gnd -Another thing that might help is to wire up variable resistor in series with the normal timing resistors. I found this to be very helpful in adjusting the time value of the pulses. You might want to try decreasing the size of your resistors before you do that, because it sounds like your pulses are too long. >Incidentally, this play dead behaviour has me thinking about adding >a righting mechanism that would consist of a gravity switch that could >tell it when it finds itself on its back (under normal circumstances, due >to uneven terrain) and activate a motor to move a couple of "legs" on the >back that would lever it up and flip it over. I saw a real bug do this >the other day using its wing covers while the walking legs waved madly in >the air. Anybody done this? I dunno. Seems like it would work. >Thanks Good luck! Ivar ,15 -- http://members.aol.com/imivar/homepage.htm Under Heavy Construction. -- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CE.00812BA6; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:30:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA26653 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:19:51 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06814 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:58:08 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id GAA01402 for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 06:49:09 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA868456276 Wed, 09 Jul 97 06:51:15 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 06:51:15 Message-Id: <9706098684.AA868456276@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: PCB Layout package SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: PCB Layout package PostedDate: 07/08/97 11:51:15 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 04:30:55 PM-07/08/97 04:30:57 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 04:30:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Found this ad in the back of June 19 EDN. I don't know anything about these guys but the price seems right... "Low Cost CAD Software Now In Windows 95 Design & Simulation PCB Layout Circuit board artwork editor and autorouter program (SuperPCB), starting at $149. Handles multiple layers and surface mount. Complete design package (mentalMAX) including schematic editor, circuit simulation, and printed circuit board layout with autorouter for only $549! Write or call for a free demo disk MENTAL AUTOMATION, inc. 5415 - 136th Place S.E. Bellevue, WA 98006 1800-794-2141 www.mentala.com" There was another ad for a different (but similar) package for $995... We use PADS which will set you back about $1500. Our Cad Manager sez different versions are available, check their web site (pads.com?) BR, Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.00003AF2; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:02:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA26826 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:51:40 -0700 Received: from mail.llu.edu (mail.llu.edu [151.112.2.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07109 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:31:05 -0500 Received: from sandress.llu.edu ([151.112.23.43]) by mail.llu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16982 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC8BBC.38D92A40.srandress@earthlink.net> From: "Scott R. Andress" To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: PCB Layout package Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:30:07 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4128 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: srandress@earthlink.net From: srandress@earthlink.net Subject: RE: PCB Layout package PostedDate: 07/08/97 04:30:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 05:02:34 PM-07/08/97 05:02:35 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 05:02:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I came across a shareware app that looks OK . I haven't played with it too much. I looks like it gives you several different ways to print it out - schematic, PCB, etc. Its called "PIA" and you can find it at http://www.shareware.com It's a 16 bit app so win 3.x or 95 should be able to handle it. The exact file name is "pia16.zip." -Scott Andress srandress@earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk [SMTP:cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:51 PM To: beam@webconn.com Subject: PCB Layout package Found this ad in the back of June 19 EDN. I don't know anything about these guys but the price seems right... "Low Cost CAD Software Now In Windows 95 Design & Simulation PCB Layout Circuit board artwork editor and autorouter program (SuperPCB), starting at $149. Handles multiple layers and surface mount. Complete design package (mentalMAX) including schematic editor, circuit simulation, and printed circuit board layout with autorouter for only $549! Write or call for a free demo disk MENTAL AUTOMATION, inc. 5415 - 136th Place S.E. Bellevue, WA 98006 1800-794-2141 www.mentala.com" There was another ad for a different (but similar) package for $995... We use PADS which will set you back about $1500. Our Cad Manager sez different versions are available, check their web site (pads.com?) BR, Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.0013357A; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:29:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com ([206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA27503 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:18:45 -0700 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08244 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:50:42 -0500 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm2-88.inx.net [198.70.60.88]) by inx.inx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA16138 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C2FF54.1BB7@inx.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 23:02:44 -0400 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM snake, anyone? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: BEAM snake, anyone? PostedDate: 07/08/97 08:02:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 08:29:57 PM-07/08/97 08:29:58 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 08:29:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello to all. While I was thinking of another configuration for my (ever changing) BEAM walker, something just sort of popped into my mind: has anyone built (or ever thought of building) a BEAM-based snake? Now that's a nasty idea. I wonder if it would be possible to build one using hobby servos (since that is what I have a lot of). I am thinking of using something like a vaccum cleaner hose for the body. Any ideas or comments before I start building such a monster? Or is BEAMing too much making me lose my mind? :-) Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.0015B087; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:56:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA27552 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:45:43 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08272 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:58:03 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA04171 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts55-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts22-01.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.112]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA10571 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707090258.WAA10571@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:43:25 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: walker and timing SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: walker and timing PostedDate: 07/08/97 07:43:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 08:57:00 PM-07/08/97 08:57:01 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 08:57:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:44 AM 7/8/97 -0400, David M Barker wrote: > >Can anyone tell me how well matched the resistors need to be to >avoid bias in leg motion? [snip] While 10 percent resistors are not the most accurate on the block, they are not the only consideration in the bias question. Motors will have a preferred direction of rotation. (well, not all motors. . .) And leg design will play a part in leg bias, too. As you note, there may only be a small difference in the right / left, or forward / rearward performance, but if it happens _every_ time, it can add-up. Try using trimmers during your "design phase" then put the fixed value in when you're done. [snip. . .] >Incidentally, this play dead behaviour has me thinking about adding >a righting mechanism that would consist of a gravity switch that could >tell it when it finds itself on its back (under normal circumstances, due >to uneven terrain) and activate a motor to move a couple of "legs" on the >back that would lever it up and flip it over. [snip] Well "Turbots" are _always_ flipping themselves. I'm not sure if they have an "upside-down" though. :) Also, Mark T. has a couple of walkers that will happily walk upside-down (though it does change direction) and even on it's side. (but not fast) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.001BC3CF; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:03:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA27657 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:52:21 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA08955 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:38:11 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts27ip199.cadvision.com [207.228.69.199]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA103974; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:33:44 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708221417.00c2305c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:14:17 -0600 To: David M Barker , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: walker and timing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: walker and timing PostedDate: 07/08/97 09:14:17 PM SendTo: dbarker@uoguelph.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 10:03:21 PM-07/08/97 10:03:21 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 10:03:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:44 AM 7/8/97 -0400, David M Barker wrote: >Can anyone tell me how well matched the resistors need to be to >avoid bias in leg motion? My walker's legs go too far in one direction >(on >both motors) so the legs tend to ratchet around in a circle. One trick we investigated doing on our walker kit was using a 1 meg trim pot to balance the front pair of legs. Simply tie your two resistors (old value minus 500k) to the ends of the trimpot and the middle leg goes to gnd. Tadah! Now you have a tunable left/right set of nodes. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.001BCC13; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:03:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA27659 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:52:37 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA08958 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:38:25 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts27ip199.cadvision.com [207.228.69.199]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA185278; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:33:52 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708222549.00c27e6c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:25:49 -0600 To: nolasco@inx.net, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? In-Reply-To: <33C2FF54.1BB7@inx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? PostedDate: 07/08/97 09:25:49 PM SendTo: nolasco@inx.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/08/97 10:03:41 PM-07/08/97 10:03:42 PM DeliveredDate: 07/08/97 10:03:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:02 PM 7/8/97 -0400, Jun Nolasco wrote: > While I was thinking of another configuration for my (ever >changing) BEAM walker, something just sort of popped into my mind: >has anyone built (or ever thought of building) a BEAM-based snake? Mark has built one using Bicore tech, and Miller followed suit with a larger version. Interesting tumbling (not snaking) motion - very spooky and smooth in it's behaviour. There's definitely room for more work on this concept. > I wonder if it would be possible to build one using hobby >servos (since that is what I have a lot of). I am thinking of using >something like a vaccum cleaner hose for the body. The larger (heavier) it is, the more difficult it'll be to move around. Personally, I'd would like to see a nitinol version (ok, ok, so it'd need an off-board power supply. So shoot me already...), as it'd be LIGHT, SMALL, and _very_ smooth. More like a BEAM worm. Hmmm. Gonna have to file that thought.... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.00300C23; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:44:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA27864 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:33:39 -0700 Received: from kauri.vuw.ac.nz (kauri.vuw.ac.nz [130.195.2.248]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA10359 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:19:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (tenhave@localhost) by kauri.vuw.ac.nz (8.8.4/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA07294 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:19:48 +1200 (NZT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:19:48 +1200 (NZT) From: David ten Have To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? In-Reply-To: <33C2FF54.1BB7@inx.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: David.ten.Have@vuw.ac.nz From: David.ten.Have@vuw.ac.nz Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? PostedDate: 07/09/97 01:19:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 01:44:52 AM-07/09/97 01:44:53 AM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 01:44:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Jun Nolasco wrote: > Any ideas or comments before I start building such a monster? > Or is BEAMing too much making me lose my mind? :-) I remember reading something about a robot they used in the movie "Anaconda" to do some of the scenes. Basically they had designed this machine to move like a snake...anyways the designer was commenting on the processing power required (multiple Pentiums) to control the movement of this beast and he was amazed at how a real snake did the entire smake thing with a "almond-sized" brain...I would love to see this done with BEAM principles. I guess you could treat it like a many-legged walker in a tube or glove...done real snakes move by waggling their ribs?? Cheers Dave -------------------------------------- What's wrong with us? All this depraved and amazing stuff going on right under our noses, and we're squabbling all day about censorship and Bill Gates? -This is Your Net on Drugs -Jon Katz: Media Rant $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.004546C9; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 05:36:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA28040 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 05:25:44 -0700 Received: from golden.net (ns.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11436 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:11:37 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco1-71.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.71]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01401; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C38048.26BF@golden.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 08:12:56 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: PCB Layout package References: <9706098684.AA868456276@vtech.com.hk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: PCB Layout package PostedDate: 07/09/97 05:12:56 AM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 05:36:48 AM-07/09/97 05:36:49 AM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 05:36:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Give http://www.protel.com a try.... I use there full $2500.00 windows version and love it... They do have a freeware download of "Easytrax" wich is a Fully functional DOS Software that runs fine in a window... Dosn't have super fancy Autoroute capabilities but it has complete support for Gerber Files and pen plotters...... As well as libraries and mutilayer design capabilities... Tilden's original BEAMants were designed using this one as was a lot of my early stuff... Not fancy but fully functional and FREE..... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.006112F3; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:40:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA29210 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:29:27 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13186 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:47:25 -0500 Received: from beowulf (beowulf.esa.lanl.gov [128.165.140.61]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA28137 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970709104325.00a297f0@esa.lanl.gov> X-Sender: claytor_t_n@esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:43:26 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: short video of microsteg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov From: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: short video of microsteg PostedDate: 07/09/97 09:43:26 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 10:40:32 AM-07/09/97 10:40:33 AM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 10:40:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US A video of the microstegasaurus http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/bug0.gif Design pretty much ripped off of Millers beam page with some electronics modifications. http://www.golden.net/~amiller/Microcore.htm Tom. http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.00749372; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00312 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:02:28 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14707 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:19:35 -0500 Received: from ts72ip84.cadvision.com (ts72ip84.cadvision.com [207.228.76.84]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id OAA210086; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:14:55 -0600 Received: by ts72ip84.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8C72.06D64F80@ts72ip84.cadvision.com>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:11:42 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC8C72.06D64F80@ts72ip84.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Andrew Miller'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Re: PCB Layout package Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:11:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Re: PCB Layout package PostedDate: 07/09/97 01:11:15 PM SendTo: amiller@golden.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 02:13:21 PM-07/09/97 02:13:22 PM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 02:13:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Give http://www.protel.com a try.... I use there full $2500.00 windows version and love it... They do have a freeware download of "Easytrax" wich is a Fully functional DOS Software that runs fine in a window... Dosn't have super fancy Autoroute capabilities but it has complete support for Gerber Files and pen plotters...... As well as libraries and mutilayer design capabilities... Tilden's original BEAMants were designed using this one as was a lot of my early stuff... Not fancy but fully functional and FREE..... I think the software you own is a bit more that the average person needs, if you make money from using it then it would be well worth the value. For some strange reason I have the easytrax zip on my hard drive, but I have never unzipped it and used it. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.008096A6; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:24:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01009 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:13:38 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15555 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:39:22 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19932; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:42:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:32:38 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Jun Nolasco cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? In-Reply-To: <33C2FF54.1BB7@inx.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: BEAM snake, anyone? PostedDate: 07/09/97 03:32:38 PM SendTo: nolasco@inx.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 04:24:42 PM-07/09/97 04:24:44 PM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 04:24:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Jun Nolasco wrote: > Hello to all. > > While I was thinking of another configuration for my (ever > changing) BEAM walker, something just sort of popped into my mind: > has anyone built (or ever thought of building) a BEAM-based snake? > Now that's a nasty idea. > > I wonder if it would be possible to build one using hobby > servos (since that is what I have a lot of). I am thinking of using > something like a vaccum cleaner hose for the body. > > Any ideas or comments before I start building such a monster? > Or is BEAMing too much making me lose my mind? :-) > > > > Jun Nolasco > nolasco@inx.net > I had an idea for a type of snake. Get a couple of old unwanted CDs(or CD-ROMS), and drill a hole in each, near the rim. Then put a bolt or shaft or something through two of CDs, linking them together. Make it so they can swivel freely. Link, say, three CDs together like that, then put a servo at each joint. Then put legs on each CD, and they probably don't need to be motorized at all, if you have them set up right. Then, by servoeing the servos(good thing to do with a servo) in the right way, it ought to walk. I'll be trying it as soon as I find some CDs and motors. By the way, whats the best source for motors, _besides_ walkmans and pagers? Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564CF.0082D06C; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:48:50 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01127 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:37:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04951 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15741 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:09:25 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts74ip34.cadvision.com [207.228.113.34]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA269250; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:04:59 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970709171527.00eb1098@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:15:27 -0600 To: "Thomas N. Claytor" , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: short video of microsteg In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970709104325.00a297f0@esa.lanl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: short video of microsteg PostedDate: 07/09/97 04:15:27 PM SendTo: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/09/97 04:49:02 PM-07/09/97 04:49:05 PM DeliveredDate: 07/09/97 04:49:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:43 AM 7/9/97 -0600, Thomas N. Claytor wrote: >A video of the microstegasaurus >http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/bug0.gif Cool. It looks like you coupled the opposite side leg's fore and aft (front left/rear right) motions to the same Nv, no? Is this then simply a 2 Nv walker? -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D0.003037F6; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:46:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA02105 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:53:28 -0700 Received: from mail.iso.port.ac.uk (alpha3.iso.port.ac.uk [148.197.254.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA18713 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 02:31:51 -0500 Received: from iso.port.ac.uk (iso1.iso.port.ac.uk [148.197.1.1]) by mail.iso.port.ac.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA31050 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:34:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from ISO1/SpoolDir by iso.port.ac.uk (Mercury 1.21); 10 Jul 97 08:31:43 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by ISO1 (Mercury 1.30); 10 Jul 97 08:31:39 GMT From: "Trevor Lainson" Organization: University of Portsmouth To: beam@webconn.com Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:31:31 GMT Subject: nitinol wire Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <50A40F237F0@iso.port.ac.uk> SMTPOriginator: trevor@iso.port.ac.uk From: trevor@iso.port.ac.uk Subject: nitinol wire PostedDate: 07/10/97 01:31:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/10/97 01:46:45 AM-07/10/97 01:46:46 AM DeliveredDate: 07/10/97 01:46:46 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Does anyone know of a supplier of nitinol "muscle wire" in the U.K.? I'd like to have a go at building a walker using this stuff if I can get hold of some. Thanks Trevor $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D0.00664222; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:36:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03663 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:25:50 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA22114 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:53:16 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup18.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.237]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08146 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:11:00 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970710135217.00968460@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:52:17 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/10/97 10:52:17 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/10/97 11:37:05 AM-07/10/97 11:37:06 AM DeliveredDate: 07/10/97 11:37:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Ok, maybe I can clarify this question which has not directly been answered (maybe because I am just not being clear). In "Living Machines", what is the reference "Nu neurons" referring to? I don't believe they are Nv nets, for they are mentioned separately. So what is the distinction? Thanks, Brian At 03:55 PM 7/6/97 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >Hello aficionados of Nv Net tech, > >I have been wondering for quite sometime about Nu neurons mentioned in >"Living Machines", under Figure 5; it says that "Nu neurons first filter >the activation signals in the Nv net to regulate gait processes, and >secondly effect a change in the topological Nv structure to allow the robot >a backup ability." > >Basically, my interpretation of this is that an Nu neuron, would be similar >to this: > [my stuff deleted...] --- Brian O. Bush Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D0.00691DA1; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:08:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03952 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:57:15 -0700 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22317 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:23:53 -0500 Received: from default (slip129-37-158-100.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.158.100]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA151780; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:23:35 GMT Message-ID: <33C528AF.333C@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:23:43 -0400 From: Andrew Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian O. Bush" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons References: <3.0.1.32.19970710135217.00968460@wingate> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id NAA22317 SMTPOriginator: andr106@ibm.net From: andr106@ibm.net Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/10/97 11:23:43 AM SendTo: bbush@xtdl.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/10/97 12:08:13 PM-07/10/97 12:08:14 PM DeliveredDate: 07/10/97 12:08:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > In "Living Machines", what is the reference "Nu neurons" referring to? > I don't believe they are Nv nets, for they are mentioned separately. So > what is the distinction? > The Basic distinction is in what they are doing.. You are right in assuming they are higher function neurons that effect the behaviour of the base Nv net.... A practical difference is that Nv and Nu neurons are laid out a bit different... Basically swap the resistor and the Cap so you have Resitors runing between output and input and caps tied to ground... Along with the original topology it gives you an intigreator and a differentiator.... Combinations of the two give higher function (but are a bitch to tweek)... A symantic diference is that "living machines" was written 21/2 years ago and definitions have been redifined... The idea of calling MicroCore tech a "neural" net has been drop since we managed to show that "Nervous net tech" is all that is needed when describing these things.... We've found using terms like "Master" and "Slave" more accuratly reflect the seperations in Nv tech.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D0.006D694B; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:55:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04213 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:44:10 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22883 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:18:15 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA18328 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970710151806_-23895066@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/10/97 12:18:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/10/97 12:55:11 PM-07/10/97 12:55:11 PM DeliveredDate: 07/10/97 12:55:11 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >In "Living Machines", what is the reference "Nu neurons" referring to? >I don't believe they are Nv nets, for they are mentioned separately. So >what is the distinction? > >Thanks, Brian I have made a page on some of the basic questions asked about microcores using some of the letters that have already been asked about microcores. I don't know if it will help everyone, but here it is: http://members.aol.com/imivar/microfaq.htm I am continually updating it as more questions about microcores get asked and answered. Hope it helps. Ivar,15 $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.002EE299; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:17:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA09766 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 Received: from Rt66.com (mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00659 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:03:02 -0500 Received: from pmc02.rt66.com (pmc02.rt66.com [204.134.97.22]) by Rt66.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA12294 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:02:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970712005914.2f1ff11c@esh-mail.lanl.gov> X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:59:14 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. deVries II" Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons In-Reply-To: <33C528AF.333C@ibm.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19970710135217.00968460@wingate> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/11/97 11:59:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 01:17:22 AM-07/12/97 01:17:23 AM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 01:17:23 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:23 PM 7/10/97 -0400, Andrew Miller wrote: >A practical difference is that Nv and Nu neurons are laid out a bit >different... >Basically swap the resistor and the capacitor so you have resistors running >between output and input and capacitorss tied to ground... >Along with the original topology it gives you an integrator and a >differentiator.... >Combinations of the two give higher function (but are a bitch to >tweek)... Mostly true, Andrew-san, very good explanation... >A semantic diference is that "living machines" was written 21/2 years ago >and definitions have been redefined... Well, sort of. >The idea of calling MicroCore tech a "neural" net has been drop since we >managed to show that "Nervous net tech" is all that is needed when >describing these things.... Without giving too much of it away, the really farkling amazing (and by the way, I'm not kidding on this one newbies, and small gods alike) UniCore structure really -does- use Nu (integrative-style) neurons (and NOT just as power-up delay circuits) combined in a connectionist manner with Nv (differentiator-style) neurons. I'm doing my best to document what Mr. Tilden has produced lately (and, in fact, proved to myself that the circuit diagram he gave me two weeks ago or so really is just what he says it is today rather than listen to the boring meeting I was in) but this involves a process unlike what you robot-builders do. When I get enough down on paper about this stuff, I'm going to beg Mark day and night to stick his name on first and get the info published... In the mean time, anyone who bugs him about it other than those who knew him before I did can expect to get a mailbox full of whining and crabbing and saying "you could've bugged me instead...." >We've found using terms like "Master" and "Slave" more accuratly reflect >the separations in Nv tech.... Just a little food for thought: say you did have two different Nv nets, each doing their own oscillatory thing. You can slave one of them to the other by putting a wire between the output of any gate on the master net and connecting it to the input of any gate on the slave net (in fact, bypassing the usual differentiating capacitor.) Well, that's cool and all, but it is kind of permanent, at least the way we've been doing things so far - it is a wire soldered in or a resistor stuck in a socket or something. More importantly at this point is that if those two individual nets each contributed just one behavior to the overall _being_ of a biomorph then such a connection would quite simply and literally multiply the spaces of the two behaviors: and as we've read in stuff that Mark has written already, this often leads to not only unexpected, unpredictable emergent behaviors, but _useful_ behaviors as well. So, that's spiffy, but what I've heard an awful lot of conversation on this mailing list about has been "can I put a PIC/BASIC Stamp onto a BEAM device"? The really big question, a hugely fundamental and philosophical question is: why the heck would you want to do so? Oh sure, you can make a Stamp BEAM robot of some sort and you might come up with some interesting results but it is hardly new (the Stiquito is HOW old?) The really neat thing to think about is this: say you've got these various nervous nets and each net shows extremely robust and capable behavior within some portion of your problem space (i.e. seeing, navigation, locomotion, coordination: all problems, the space is an n-tuple of them.) And you've got this spiffy PIC or BASIC Stamp that you can use to implement decision trees or fuzzy logic or what-have-you. And you've got something like the '240 buffer which allows you to enable or disable four lines all at once (tristate at that.) That means that your Stamp can say: "Since I'm in thus-and-such a condition, I think that this particular behavior-set is called for." It then connects up the nervous nets appropriately which then do their thing efficiently and smoothly -- and don't even really need any supervision by the Stamp. Wow. A non-linear increase in ability with merely a linear increase of complexity. How "smart", how a "robust" is your biomorph now? Perhaps you don't even -need- to turn on the Stamp all that often. Any ideas? Kudos? Brickbats? Tomatos? Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.0042CA88; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:09:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09919 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:58:32 -0700 From: Kudos001@aol.com Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02002 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:51:41 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id HAA05028 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970712075136_-558748211@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Build My Frist BEAM robot SMTPOriginator: Kudos001@aol.com From: Kudos001@aol.com Subject: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/12/97 04:51:37 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 05:09:42 AM-07/12/97 05:09:43 AM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 05:09:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I would like to build a beam robot but I don't know where to start. I'm already starting to build the solar roller but I want to a walker robot. Where can I get help in designing a simple walker? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.005B8259; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:39:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10020 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:28:15 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03355 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:57:52 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA22284 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts62-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.89]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA15901 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707121558.LAA15901@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:42:35 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Repost: Toronto Meeting SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Repost: Toronto Meeting PostedDate: 07/12/97 08:42:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 09:39:37 AM-07/12/97 09:39:38 AM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 09:39:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Hi Gang; > > The Toronto meeting has been confirmed for: >Saturday 09 August 1997. Time is still set >for 12:00 noon until 5:00 p.m. > Please e-mail me directly for more details: > >crs0274@inforamp.net > >Cheers, > >Richard. > >P.S. Remember to reply to me directly, rather than >to the list, regarding this meeting. -RW > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.005B86F8; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:39:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10023 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:28:46 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03351 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:57:48 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA22268 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts62-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.89]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA15814 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707121558.LAA15814@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:42:31 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: VBUG 1.5 Walkman and Nu neurons PostedDate: 07/12/97 08:42:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 09:39:47 AM-07/12/97 09:39:48 AM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 09:39:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:59 AM 7/12/97 -0600, "John A. deVries II" wrote: [snip] >[. . .] Wow. A non-linear increase in ability with >merely a linear increase of complexity. > >How "smart", how a "robust" is your biomorph now? Perhaps you don't even >-need- to turn on the Stamp all that often. > >Any ideas? Kudos? Brickbats? Tomatos? > >Zoz > Hi Zoz; Where can I get one of those 'brickbats', my baseball team could use one of those! :-) 'Kudos' for sure. Another 'rave review' from Richard. I've heard Mark T. suggest that 'higher' functions could be shipped-off to a processor. This seems an ideal way to do it: Stamp-switching resistors in a Nv-net is possible, but "whoa" that's a real complexity jump, when a touch sensor will do the job. If, perchance, our hypothetical UniCore 'bot has two sets of connections, and one of them does a good job of "loafing around in the sun, collecting a good charge" and the other does a good job of "finding ferro-magnetic anomalies, and distinct hydro-carbon trace signatures" I wonder what good that would be. . . . :-) Just joshing, obviously it would be an autonomous land- mine reconcilliator. Now, 'traditionally' (yeah, like there are a ton of traditions in a rampantly innovative field like this.) there would be a level sensing switch to change over to "charge mode" and it works. If we then put a Stamp (no promotion intended, it's just shorter to type than "generic microcontroller") in charge of that switch, it is trivial to consider time of day in our charge management strategy. We can "charge all day - work all night" or "work and charge all day, save enough juice to get home after dark" or whatever else appeals. If we put a Lincoln Town Car detector on the Stamp, we can have the 'bots busily running around whenever the 'boss' shows-up. (Good for funding ;-) ) Cheers, Richard. P.S. I'm looking forward to whatever you guys put together for publication. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.005BE531; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:43:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10026 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:32:41 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03350 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:57:48 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA22262 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts62-16.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.89]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA15722 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707121558.LAA15722@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:42:29 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/12/97 08:42:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 09:43:52 AM-07/12/97 09:43:53 AM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 09:43:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:51 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Kudos001@aol.com wrote: >I would like to build a beam robot but I don't know where to start. >I'm already starting to build the solar roller but I want to a walker robot. >Where can I get help in designing a simple walker? > > > As with anything on the internet, a good place to start is the archives. Many newsgroups, mailing-lists, websites, etc. have what is called "FAQ" for Frequently Asked Questions. The "FAQ" is the place to look when you don't know where to look. Most newsgroups have their FAQ available by FTP at rtfm.mit.edu You can find out how to use this in any beginners internet book. Good starting points for this specific topic, BEAM robotics, are the following: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html http://www.golden.net/~amiller http://www.solarbotics.com http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html There is a _ton_ of good beginner material on these sites. It may take you some time to wade through it all. Cheers, and welcome. Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D2.007D2F15; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:47:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10241 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:36:07 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05337 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:07:20 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10668; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:13:29 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA02966; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:00:37 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA21687; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:07:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:00:36 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Kudos001@aol.com cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot In-Reply-To: <970712075136_-558748211@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/12/97 03:00:36 PM SendTo: Kudos001@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 03:47:29 PM-07/12/97 03:47:30 PM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 03:47:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 Kudos001@aol.com wrote: > I would like to build a beam robot but I don't know where to start. > I'm already starting to build the solar roller but I want to a walker robot. > Where can I get help in designing a simple walker? > I was kinda bored with solarollers and photovores, so I just jumped ahead and built a walker. At twelve years old and $10 a month, it's kinda hard to find motors and stuff. My current and only walker uses only one motor, and looks simmilair to most of the other two motor walkers you see on the web, except mine has only one motor, which is pretty convenient when you can't afford two geared motors of the same type. I'd love to share the details on the list, but it might be kinda long. I'll probably write an article for the SRS(Seattle Robotics Society) Encoder, or some thing like that. But for now it's still under construction, even though it walks. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D3.0015915A; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:55:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA10420 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:44:34 -0700 Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06908 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:35:27 -0500 Received: from [206.86.255.100] (peggy3.vip.best.com [206.86.255.100]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA14978; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707130333.UAA14978@proxy3.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 20:30:06 -0700 x-sender: peggy3@pop.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: peggy3 To: "garrett myrick" cc: "Beam list" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" SMTPOriginator: peggy3@shellx.best.com From: peggy3@hompro.com Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/12/97 08:30:06 PM SendTo: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/12/97 08:55:40 PM-07/12/97 08:55:41 PM DeliveredDate: 07/12/97 08:55:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dear Garrett, Please visit my web page at www.hompro.com/techkids We're brand new, but I'd love to publish your projects and experiences. I have started a web site for kids and beginning hobbyists to learn how to get started in robotics & electronics. My son Dan is just 7, and we just ordered our first solar kit and an infrared kit that can do mazes. I'm building some pages now to teach the basics. Our current links provide information links & applications. Please send us your advice, opinions, experiences etc. and we'll publish it! I'd like to publish your sources of inexpensive parts and basic walker ideas-many kids (& grown-ups) are on a limited budget. Peggy Condon, web mstress and Danny. email: peggy3@hompro.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Peggy Condon e-mail:peggy3@hompro.com Company Web Site:www.hompro.com HomePro Computer Services Phone: 415.578.8315 San Mateo, CA USA $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D3.00643067; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:14:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA10784 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:02:55 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10653 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:40:30 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA16538 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts48-03.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts48-03.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.148.146]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA09745 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707131740.NAA09745@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:24:52 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/13/97 10:24:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 11:14:34 AM-07/13/97 11:14:35 AM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 11:14:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:00 PM 7/12/97 -0700, garrett myrick wrote: [snip] [> . . .] My current and only walker uses only one motor, >and looks simmilair to most of the other two motor walkers you see on the >web, except mine has only one motor, which is pretty convenient when you >can't afford two geared motors of the same type. I'd love to share the >details on the list, but it might be kinda long. I'll probably write an >article for the SRS(Seattle Robotics Society) Encoder, or some thing like >that. But for now it's still under construction, even though it walks. > >Garrett > > That is really great, Garrett. The "bugetary restraint" is especially inspiring. Please, tell us more about your walker; at a minimum, tell us when it will be on the web-site. In addition to _Encoder_, you might try _Robotics Digest_. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D3.007929DE; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:03:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10900 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:52:15 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00660 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:44:07 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03884; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:50:14 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA03328; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:37:34 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25172; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:44:33 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Richard Weait cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot In-Reply-To: <199707131740.NAA09745@inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/13/97 02:37:34 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 03:03:29 PM-07/13/97 03:03:30 PM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 03:03:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Richard Weait wrote: > At 03:00 PM 7/12/97 -0700, garrett myrick > wrote: > [snip] > [> . . .] My current and only walker uses only one motor, > >and looks simmilair to most of the other two motor walkers you see on the > >web, except mine has only one motor, which is pretty convenient when you > >can't afford two geared motors of the same type. I'd love to share the > >details on the list, but it might be kinda long. I'll probably write an > >article for the SRS(Seattle Robotics Society) Encoder, or some thing like > >that. But for now it's still under construction, even though it walks. > > > >Garrett > > > > > > That is really great, Garrett. The "bugetary restraint" > is especially inspiring. Please, tell us more about your > walker; at a minimum, tell us when it will be on the > web-site. > In addition to _Encoder_, you might try _Robotics Digest_. > > Cheers, > > Richard. > _I_ don't have a website, but I'll give out pictures as soon as I get some. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D3.007956BF; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:05:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10903 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:54:25 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00628 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:40:30 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03771; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:46:33 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA03131; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:33:43 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25153; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:40:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:33:42 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: "Mark W. Dalton" cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot In-Reply-To: <199707130522.XAA16804@butch.acl.lanl.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: Build My Frist BEAM robot PostedDate: 07/13/97 02:33:42 PM SendTo: mwd@acl.lanl.gov CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 03:05:31 PM-07/13/97 03:05:33 PM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 03:05:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Mark W. Dalton wrote: > Garrett, > > Excellent job! We are hear to help and support you build also. > Could you scan in a picture or send me a picture? We don't have a scanner, but I'd be happy to send you a picture as soon as I get some. > > I would be happy to send you a few gear motors, they are not super > efficient, but the motor can be replaced with a pager motor. The > gears are all metal so it will last well. "not super efficient" is better than extreeemly inefficient, which is what the current motor is. YES, send those motors, if you can spare them. > > Just send me a snail mail address to send them to.. You may want to > okay send out your home address with your parents. Or I could send > it to the SRS Robotics group if you go there regularly. My mom and dad don't mind, I'm sure. My address is at the bottom. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. Garrett Myrick 7270 NE 288st Kingston, WA 98346 (360) 297-2775 gamyrick@linknet.lib.wa.us $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.00028FEC; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:27:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA10955 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:17:04 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01515 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:11:00 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA00899 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970713201100_-625679545@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM: 1000th letter SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: BEAM: 1000th letter PostedDate: 07/13/97 05:11:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 05:28:03 PM-07/13/97 05:28:03 PM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 05:28:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello! I was checking the BEAM mailing list archive a little while ago, and I happened to notice that there was 999 letters that had been sent in. This is the 1000th letter on this mailing list, and I was thinking that it might be necessary to divide the mail into "volumes" of 1000 letters to expediate loading the page? Any comments? Or is my browser just really slow? Ivar -- http://members.aol.com/imivar/homepage.htm Any links to my page would be greatly appreciated. (Shamless self promotion, sorry) -- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.0003853D; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:38:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA10969 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:27:26 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01654 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:24:29 -0500 Received: from butch.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@butch.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.119]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12290; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:24:23 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by butch.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id SAA18278; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199707140024.SAA18278@butch.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: BEAM: 1000th letter To: IMIvar@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <970713201100_-625679545@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "IMIvar@aol.com" at Jul 13, 97 08:11:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM: 1000th letter PostedDate: 07/13/97 05:24:22 PM SendTo: IMIvar@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 05:38:35 PM-07/13/97 05:38:37 PM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 05:38:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > Hello! > > I was checking the BEAM mailing list archive a little while ago, and I > happened to notice that there was 999 letters that had been sent in. This is > the 1000th letter on this mailing list, and I was thinking that it might be > necessary to divide the mail into "volumes" of 1000 letters to expediate > loading the page? Any comments? Or is my browser just really slow? > Actually, it looks like 999 may be the limit of the Mailing list archiving. I will need to see abou this. (Since your message was not archived..) But I do agree it is about time to start a new archive, and place these messages in the old archive. Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.002542E3; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:46:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11284 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:36:03 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03487 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:30:30 -0500 Received: from aasland ([207.34.144.118]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA207 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:33:31 -0700 From: "Mairs, T." To: "BEAM" Subject: http://www.img.net/aasland/cool.html Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:29:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC8FE4.ABA712E0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970714063330987.AAA207@aasland> $FILE: SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: http://www.img.net/aasland/cool.html PostedDate: 07/13/97 11:29:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/13/97 11:47:09 PM-07/13/97 11:47:10 PM DeliveredDate: 07/13/97 11:47:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have recently added a multitude of new robotics links to this site, feel free to use this resource. I am attempting to build an Knowledge Base / Support Guide for Robotics at this site. If you have any other links you would like to submit, please do so here: aasland@img.net . Soon, I will be sorting the links into logical groups, adding separate pages for construction techniques, success stories, and supplier resources. If you have any suggestions, they are welcome. Tom Mairs Aasland Technologies ------ Don't miss out - http://www.img.net/aasland/

I have recently added a multitude of new robotics links to this site, feel free to use this resource.  I am attempting to build an Knowledge Base / Support Guide for Robotics at this site.  If you have any other links you would like to submit, please do so here: aasland@img.net .

Soon, I will be sorting the links into logical groups, adding separate pages for construction techniques, success stories, and supplier resources.  If you have any suggestions, they are welcome.


Tom Mairs
Aasland Technologies     ------    Don't miss out   -   http://www.img.net/aas land/

- Aasland Technologies Cool Page.url $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.003387CA; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:22:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA11389 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:11:19 -0700 Received: from giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us (giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us [168.166.166.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA04107 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:26:56 -0500 Received: (from warren@localhost) by giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA10667; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:29:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:29:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Warren Auld To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Utility board question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us From: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us Subject: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/14/97 12:29:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/14/97 02:22:55 AM-07/14/97 02:22:56 AM DeliveredDate: 07/14/97 02:22:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I'm stumped. I've got a utility board from Radio Shack with a bunch of single solder pads (i.e. a hole surrounded by a small copper pad that doesn't connect to any others.) I'm trying to figure out how they intended these pads be used. The holes are too small for a pair of resistor leads. Possible solutions are enlarging the holes, using #30 wire for jumpers, or possibly a conductive ink pen. Any thoughts? warren KB0VGO P.T. Why is this related to beam? I'm playing with a Nv net walker and my breadboard is too heavy. :-) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.005CA492; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:51:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA12398 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:40:54 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06374 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 04:25:31 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts58ip78.cadvision.com [207.228.74.78]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA230138; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:20:27 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714092635.00b58974@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:26:35 -0600 To: Warren Auld , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Utility board question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/14/97 08:26:35 AM SendTo: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/14/97 09:52:07 AM-07/14/97 09:52:07 AM DeliveredDate: 07/14/97 09:52:07 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:29 AM 7/14/97 -0400, Warren Auld wrote: >I'm stumped. I've got a utility board from Radio Shack with a bunch of >single solder pads (i.e. a hole surrounded by a small copper pad that >doesn't connect to any others.) I'm trying to figure out how they >intended these pads be used. When I use these, LOTS of creative connecting goes on the backside of the board, like bending the lead from one transistor after it goes thru so that it connects up with the next one. But they do have some that have copper 3-holes long at RS... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.0082BCB3; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:47:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14437 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:37:01 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08220 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:58:03 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id GAA01217 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:48:55 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA868974737 Tue, 15 Jul 97 06:52:17 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 06:52:17 Message-Id: <9706158689.AA868974737@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: 100 Farad Cap SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: 100 Farad Cap PostedDate: 07/14/97 11:52:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/14/97 04:48:04 PM-07/14/97 04:48:04 PM DeliveredDate: 07/14/97 04:48:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US June 18, 1997 EDN Products Edition pg. 132 "ELNA America has just unveiled a new double layer capacitor producing 100 farads capacitance with less than 0.08 ohms resistance in a package only one-fifth the size of a comparable energy storage device on the market today. Measuring just 35 mm in diameter by 50 mm in length (about the size of a C Cell battery,) the new DynaCap(tm) Model DZ-2R5D107 sets a new high standard in capacitance density, and is capable of virtually unlimited and instantaneous charge/discharge cycles with no reduction in efficiency. Applications range from memory back-up in computers to _storage of electric power for solar cells_. ELNA America, Inc. 5770 Warland Drive, Cypress, CA 90630" Sounds crazy! Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D4.0082DD13; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:49:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14447 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:38:21 -0700 Received: from titan.org (gaea.titan.org [198.151.161.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08272 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:03:44 -0500 Received: from ignem by titan.org (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA03705; Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:03:33 -0700 Received: from reason by omnigroup.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA05592; Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:03:38 -0700 Message-Id: <9707142303.AA05592@omnigroup.com> Received: by reason.omnigroup.com (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA09657; Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:03:45 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970714092635.00b58974@cadvision.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: William Lewis Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:03:44 -0700 To: Warren Auld Subject: Re: Utility board question Cc: beam@webconn.com Reply-To: wiml@hhhh.org References: <3.0.1.32.19970714092635.00b58974@cadvision.com> SMTPOriginator: wiml@omnigroup.com From: wiml@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/14/97 04:03:44 PM SendTo: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: wiml@hhhh.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/14/97 04:49:26 PM-07/14/97 04:49:27 PM DeliveredDate: 07/14/97 04:49:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I usually use 30-gauge insulated wire (sold as wire-wrap wire --- I think even RS sells it) for this. I'll solder the components to the pads, then make the connections using the wire (running the wire along the back side of the board, the side that would be the foil side). This works pretty well once you get the hang of it. The foil pads help keep the solder where you want it to be, and help mechanically join the components to the board. (If you accidentally overheat and remove one of the foil pads, you'll find out why they're there. :-) ) Sometimes I can do some creative lead-bending like Dave says (and it helps to lay out your circuit with this in mind) but most of my boards have a big snarl of point-to-point wiring behind them. Wim / wiml@hhhh.org $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D5.0011A4A2; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:12:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14951 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:01:42 -0700 Received: from invfacty.factory.com (invfacty.factory.com [199.183.47.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08836 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:32:10 -0500 Received: from murk.factory.com by invfacty.factory.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA18043; Mon, 14 Jul 97 20:15:15 -0400 Received: from factory.com by bbsnet with UUCP ; Mon, 14 Jul 97 22:41:40 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Utility board question From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) Message-Id: <318409.500.uupcb@factory.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 17:38:00 -0500 Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110 Reply-To: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) References: I'm stumped. I've got a utility board from Radio Shack with a bunch of >single solder pads (i.e. a hole surrounded by a small copper pad that >doesn't connect to any others.) I'm trying to figure out how they >intended these pads be used. The holes are too small for a pair of >resistor leads. Possible solutions are enlarging the holes, using #30 >wire for jumpers, or possibly a conductive ink pen. Any thoughts? Simplest way is to use regular wirewrap wire, strip it maybe 1/4", and wrap it around the lead similar to "real" wirewrapping, using maybe a jeweler's screwdriver to wrap the wire around the leads, then solder it to keep it from coming off. I've made a bunch of ultra-compact gizmos in this way, and even *without* the solder pads, just by wrapping and soldering wire and leads. It can be a bit difficult with regular ICs, unless you're also good at daisychaining the wires together and only using the IC leads as endpoints, or alternately, *lightly* soldering the leads just enough to get them to "stick" (tack-soldering, usually), then wrapping another layer on top of or above this connection, then soldering it completely to make it permanent. >P.T. Why is this related to beam? I'm playing with a Nv net walker and my >breadboard is too heavy. :-) There ya go.. --- . SLMR 2.0 #..jw . There's a whole dead cat in every bar of Dead Cat Soap! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D5.0011B629; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:13:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14957 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:02:30 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08865 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:38:19 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA11572 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts7-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts7-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.138]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA08398 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707150238.WAA08398@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:22:17 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: 100 Farad Cap SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: 100 Farad Cap PostedDate: 07/14/97 07:22:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/14/97 08:13:32 PM-07/14/97 08:13:33 PM DeliveredDate: 07/14/97 08:13:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:52 AM 7/15/97, cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk wrote: > > June 18, 1997 EDN Products Edition pg. 132 > > "ELNA America has just unveiled a new double layer capacitor . . ." [ remainder of run-on sentance, snipped] > > Sounds crazy! > > Cam. > Well that has piqued my interest. What comes to mind first are the stories I've heard of how 'sample-unfriendly' Elna is. Second thought is that my suppliers won't take a flyer on these unless I take the entire manufacturers minimum quantity. (big bucks :-( ) Too bad. Of course, if anyone else is able to scrounge a few of these, there are many reading this that would pay fair-market value for a piece or two. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D5.00355597; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:42:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA15396 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:31:15 -0700 Received: from giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us (giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us [168.166.166.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA09511 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:00:05 -0500 Received: (from warren@localhost) by giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id EAA25644; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:03:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Warren Auld To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Utility board question In-Reply-To: <9707142303.AA05592@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us From: warren@giraffe.dolir.state.mo.us Subject: Re: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/15/97 01:03:26 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/15/97 02:42:35 AM-07/15/97 02:42:36 AM DeliveredDate: 07/15/97 02:42:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Ah hah! So the board comes out as a cross between etched board construction and the Ugly (tm) technique. I've already gone ahead and started wire wrapping the board with the resistors and caps soldered to headers that get plugged into wire wrap sockets (hopefully it will make swapping resistors easier.) I may try the conductive ink pen on some future project. I'll let y'all know how it works out. warren KB0VGO $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D5.00497A60; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:22:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15634 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:11:38 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09740 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:57:37 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA14020 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:57:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:57:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny2-13.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.77) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014000; Tue Jul 15 07:57:21 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970715090408.34975c9e@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: 100 Farad Caps SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: 100 Farad Caps PostedDate: 07/15/97 05:57:29 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/15/97 06:22:40 AM-07/15/97 06:22:41 AM DeliveredDate: 07/15/97 06:22:41 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US When they first announced their 50F caps I tried to get some. The best I could do was $56 per unit, minimum quantity of 3, 6 weeks delivery. I passed on it. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.00100488; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:54:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19146 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:43:40 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11024 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:21:29 -0500 Received: from [206.25.229.106] (dialup10.manchester.xtdl.com [206.25.229.106]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA21513 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:39:50 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:25:53 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/15/97 07:25:53 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/15/97 07:55:07 PM-07/15/97 07:55:08 PM DeliveredDate: 07/15/97 07:55:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well in Time Magazine this week (July 21, 1997), I found that Mattel is selling a Hot Wheels Mars Rover Action Pack (five US dollars). It got me thinking that it would not cost that much (if mass produced, of course) to make a rather cheap but completely functional BEAM solar walker with: -injection molded plastic parts (for legs and structural exoskeleton), -an actual solar panel (to replace the plastic piece of synthetic solar panel) -cheap motors and gearings -simple circuitry Benefits: kids would love them, parents would not have to buy batteries, environmentalist (and nature) would love them, might convince NASA that maybe a few hundred walking machines on Mars might be more feasible than one. Just thinking, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.001A5997; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:47:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19341 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:36:26 -0700 Received: from chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us ([199.179.193.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11481 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:17:22 -0500 Received: from russryba.ferris.edu ([161.57.217.78]) by chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA07276 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707160416.AAA07276@chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us> From: "Russell Ryba" To: Subject: Mars Ideas... Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:14:31 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: russryba@chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us From: russryba@chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us Subject: Mars Ideas... PostedDate: 07/15/97 09:14:31 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/15/97 09:47:52 PM-07/15/97 09:47:54 PM DeliveredDate: 07/15/97 09:47:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey everyone, I was just thinking about the Sojourner and the problems they've been having. With the faster-cheaper-better philosophy that NASA has been forced to adopt, sending up a whole bunch of robots would seem more reliable. Instead of difficulties with one robot stuck on a rock, a whole bunch of little robots could just collect rocks and bring them back to the lander which would process them and send images and results back to earth. I know most BEAM bots seem to be tiny and autonomous, but how hard do you think it would be to make a sort of ant that can collect things and return to the nest? Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any pointers? Have any of you out there added brains to the bots yet? I would love to know more. Thanks! - Russ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.0043C849; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:20:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA19746 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:09:23 -0700 Received: from iris.iupui.edu (iris.iupui.edu [134.68.220.32]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12164 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:53:39 -0500 Received: from khaupt.iupui.edu (c1p2.dialin.iupui.edu [134.68.239.3]) by iris.iupui.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA25751 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:53:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33CCA722.2ABB@iupui.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:49:06 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: khaupt@iupui.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: Re: Utility board question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: khaupt@iupui.edu From: khaupt@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/16/97 03:49:06 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: khaupt@iupui.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 05:20:26 AM-07/16/97 05:20:27 AM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 05:20:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US William Lewis wrote: ..[clip]... > > Sometimes I can do some creative lead-bending like Dave says (and it helps > to lay out your circuit with this in mind) but most of my boards have a big > snarl of point-to-point wiring behind them. > Why not lay out the circuit with "creative lead-bending" in mind, and eliminate the board altogether? I mount all my ICs "dead bug" style on double stick tape stuck down to my work bench. I then lead bend and point-to-point ( with 28 gauge solid ) wire. When I'm done and the thing's tested, I carefully pry the circuit off the double stick tape, and install in on the 'bot ( super glue ). Makes for the lightest circuit board I can think of. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.004EAC8C; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:19:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20001 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:08:09 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12367 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:21:10 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.239] (dialup20.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.239]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03243 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:39:36 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:25:34 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/16/97 06:25:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 07:19:30 AM-07/16/97 07:19:30 AM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 07:19:30 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well in Time Magazine this week (July 21, 1997), I found that Mattel is selling a Hot Wheels Mars Rover Action Pack (five US dollars). It got me thinking that it would not cost that much (if mass produced, of course) to make a rather cheap but completely functional BEAM solar walker with: -injection molded plastic parts (for legs and structural exoskeleton), -an actual solar panel (to replace the plastic piece of synthetic solar panel) -cheap motors and gearings -simple circuitry Benefits: kids would love them, parents would not have to buy batteries, environmentalist (and nature) would love them, might convince NASA that maybe a few hundred walking machines on Mars might be more feasible than one. Just thinking, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.004F384A; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:25:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20029 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:14:18 -0700 Received: from engmail2.uwaterloo.ca (engmail2.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.184]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12445 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:55:36 -0500 Received: from [198.27.97.129] (eestaf78.watstar.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.27.198]) by engmail2.uwaterloo.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA02778; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:53:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:55:18 EDT From: "ED Spike, E&CE Dept." Subject: Re: Mars Ideas... To: Russell Ryba cc: beam@webconn.com X-Warning: UNAuthenticated Sender In-Reply-To: <199707160416.AAA07276@chhs.chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca From: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: Mars Ideas... PostedDate: 07/16/97 06:55:18 AM SendTo: russryba@chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 07:25:27 AM-07/16/97 07:25:27 AM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 07:25:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Univ. of Burmingham, held a contest a few years ago. They used ball-bearings. Contact there IEEE Student Branch Counsellor for details. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Spike IEEE Student Branch office Turnkey. Robot and MicroMouse Competition Co-ordinator, 73, Amateur Radio - VE3TCK, _0_/ Asahi Judo Club, / | Scouts Canada Cub Leader, 17th Waterloo, | _ Waterloo Minor Soccer Association Coach _/ |_ O___/__| Ippon --------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.005287FB; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:01:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA20144 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:50:21 -0700 Received: from invfacty.factory.com (invfacty.factory.com [199.183.47.131]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA12598 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:30:00 -0500 Received: from murk.factory.com by invfacty.factory.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA21573; Wed, 16 Jul 97 08:14:19 -0400 Received: from factory.com by bbsnet with UUCP ; Wed, 16 Jul 97 10:41:52 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Utility board question From: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) Message-Id: <319416.500.uupcb@factory.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 03:14:00 -0500 Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110 Reply-To: gene.kwiecinski@factory.com (Gene Kwiecinski) References: Ah hah! So the board comes out as a cross between etched board >construction and the Ugly (tm) technique. I've already gone ahead and Sort of. >started wire wrapping the board with the resistors and caps soldered to >headers that get plugged into wire wrap sockets (hopefully it will make >swapping resistors easier.) I may try the conductive ink pen on some >future project. I'll let y'all know how it works out. If you want *real* easy, just get a bunch of wirewrap sockets but with *machined pins*, ie, not the conventional twin-leaf contacts, but with the round holes and little "fingers" inside. Wrap the socket as normal, and 1/4W resistors fit quite nicely with the leads bent down to fit. Very similar to the approach with headers (those red things with the little "forks" sticking up, right?), but each resistor is *individually* removable without (de)soldering. Alternately, places like Mill-Max sell single-in-line headers of the same machined-pin receptcles, but you have to lay down two rows to simulate a conventional DIP socket. Disadvantage can be turned into a benefit in case you need to adjust the spacing for longer resistors that can't comfortably be bent down to 0.3" spacing, or they can be laid side-by-side if you want to mount the resistors "standing up" instead of "laying down". --- . SLMR 2.0 #..jw . "Regis Philbin... some kind of plant?" $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.006CFF0C; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:50:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA21655 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:39:06 -0700 From: Dhendry@aol.com Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13089 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:45:13 -0500 Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19899 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:56:13 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA01026; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970716115548_-2044189038@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: russryba@chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Mars Ideas... SMTPOriginator: Dhendry@aol.com From: Dhendry@aol.com Subject: Re: Mars Ideas... PostedDate: 07/16/97 08:55:57 AM SendTo: russryba@chippewa-hills.k12.mi.us,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 12:50:42 PM-07/16/97 12:50:43 PM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 12:50:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Russ says: > sending up a whole bunch of robots would seem more reliable. It seems to me nervy (crazy?) that NASA guys bet all their money on ONE HUGE WHEELED CONTROLLED super bot instead of adding a herd of tiny legged uncontrolled bots. The planning would have been completely different of course, and this is Monday morning. The mission could have been planned to succeed even if the big bot and many of the tiny bots got damaged or stuck. The tiny bots would need sensors for properties of interest (and not all the tiny bots would have to have the same type(s) of sensor(s)). The tiny bots need not communicate with each other or cooperate (leave that for future missions). They would send data back to the Lander, which would transmit to Earth, where all the intelligence is. The bot transmitter would be very tiny, coz the sending distances would be meters or tens of meters. The technology for all this already exists, almost *off the shelf* BEAMboys on the planning team might be forgiven for cheering, weeping with joy, and hugging each other in the following scenario: The Lander lands, destroying the big Soujourner. Anyway, the ramps don't deploy properly, and the Lander could not have got off even if it had not been damaged. The only things working is one antenna and transmitter. The little BEAMbots come to life and scamper all over. Many get stuck, many fall off the Lander and are immobilized by coming to rest upside down. Many suffer broken legs and other serious damage. Many survive th fall off the Lander and scamper off in all directions, sending back data to the Lander for transmission to Earth. Back on Earth, the BEAMboys see that several bots with cameras have survived. They are able to construct 3D images and movies from the transmitted data. Meanwhile, the Soujourner cameras are dead. Derek Hendry $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.007073BB; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:28:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA21881 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:17:18 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13087 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:45:12 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20018 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:31:32 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA21598 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10644; Wed, 16 Jul 97 10:30:53 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:34:00 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/16/97 10:34:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 01:28:28 PM-07/16/97 01:28:30 PM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 01:28:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Well in Time Magazine this week (July 21, 1997), I found that Mattel is >selling a Hot Wheels Mars Rover Action Pack (five US dollars). It got me >thinking that it would not cost that much (if mass produced, of course) to >make a rather cheap but completely functional BEAM solar walker with: Needs at least $50,000 (more like at least $200,000) to get the - Discount on the motors. - Overseas manufacturing. - Distribution network. in time for xmas. Been a sore point with BEAMers for a while. So far, no rich BEAMers have come forward. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.0070927F; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:29:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA21769 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:59:40 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13083 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:45:10 -0500 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19871 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:50:08 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts63ip230.cadvision.com [207.228.74.230]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA191936; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:45:21 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716084057.00bb29c0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:40:57 -0600 To: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/16/97 07:40:57 AM SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 01:29:40 PM-07/16/97 01:29:41 PM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 01:29:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:25 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Brian O. Bush wrote: >It got me >thinking that it would not cost that much (if mass produced, of course) to >make a rather cheap but completely functional BEAM solar walker with: Sure. Got a couple of hundred thousand we can borrow to tool it up? ;-> -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D6.0077BE26; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:47:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA22385 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:36:50 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13085 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:45:11 -0500 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19870 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:50:05 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts63ip230.cadvision.com [207.228.74.230]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA254084; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:45:15 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716083936.00bb0528@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:39:36 -0600 To: khaupt@iupui.edu, beam From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Utility board question In-Reply-To: <33CCA722.2ABB@iupui.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Utility board question PostedDate: 07/16/97 07:39:36 AM SendTo: khaupt@iupui.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/16/97 02:48:05 PM-07/16/97 02:48:05 PM DeliveredDate: 07/16/97 02:48:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:49 AM 7/16/97 -0400, John and Kelly wrote: >William Lewis wrote: >Why not lay out the circuit with "creative lead-bending" in mind, and >eliminate the board altogether? Yup, that works. Even stacked chips two high using that technique to drive the uC and motor driver on my original "Sunscout" Solar-powered walker. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D8.003CDAD8; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:04:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28502 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:53:35 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15838 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:47:05 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20581 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:21:59 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA21866 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA02930 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:21:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:22:11 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/16/97 12:22:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/18/97 04:04:46 AM-07/18/97 04:04:47 AM DeliveredDate: 07/18/97 04:04:47 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:34 AM -0700 7/16/97, Mark W. Tilden wrote: >Needs at least $50,000 (more like at least $200,000) to get the >- Discount on the motors. >- Overseas manufacturing. >- Distribution network. Why heck, guys, this is thinking small. Back about 14 years ago in the Silicon Valley 'everyone knew' that it took $1 million to successfully start a company. Perhaps 5 years ago, that amount was more like $2 million. So, we really can't look at peanuts financing (200 k here, quarter of a million there.) We need to find a completely insane venture capitalist (whether BEAM or no) to front us $3 million.... Then we make our BEAM toys for Christmas... We might even have a few left over for ourselves (& relations.) Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D8.003CEB0C; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:05:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28505 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:54:20 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15526 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:41:54 -0500 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26648 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:44:26 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12363 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:49:55 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA00326; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:37:51 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA21415; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:44:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:37:50 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Motor source Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Motor source PostedDate: 07/17/97 06:37:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/18/97 04:05:27 AM-07/18/97 04:05:28 AM DeliveredDate: 07/18/97 04:05:28 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've found a good new motor source, I think. You know those "Money Factory" pennybanks that came out a few years ago? The ones that flip the coins over and over and over again? Brownish translucent plastic? Well, the motors in them are already geared(worm drive), and are kinda good for walkers. The motors in them don't seem to be very efficient, but for a battery walker they should be OK. You should be able to replace it with a pager motor, though. I have a new walker, Mantis, based on one of these. Oh, and they have a nice little arm on them already, to. Hope I haven't wasted to much of your time. Garrett Mad Scientist Kid(MSK) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D8.003D2FA1; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:08:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28513 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:57:14 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15816 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:46:33 -0500 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21201 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:34:41 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA18400 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts81-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts81-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.68]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02626 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707162234.SAA02626@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:18:33 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Mars and a BEAM Sojourner bot? PostedDate: 07/16/97 03:18:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/18/97 04:08:21 AM-07/18/97 04:08:22 AM DeliveredDate: 07/18/97 04:08:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:34 AM 7/16/97 -0700, "Mark W. Tilden" wrote: [snip re: production cost] >Been a sore point with BEAMers for a while. So far, no rich BEAMers have >come forward. > >markt. > Well as a "Rich" and a BEAM'er, I resemble that remark. :) Cheers, Richard $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D8.00555853; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:32:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA28863 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:21:05 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16758 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:42:48 -0500 Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28837 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:58:26 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA13557 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:58:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:58:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny1-24.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.56) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013543; Fri Jul 18 07:58:13 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970718090330.3507f9a6@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@WEBCONN.COM From: Mark Lerman SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com PostedDate: 07/18/97 05:58:16 AM SendTo: beam@WEBCONN.COM $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/18/97 08:32:19 AM-07/18/97 08:32:20 AM DeliveredDate: 07/18/97 08:32:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Need 3 million dollars? Easy- Just put $1.00 in 5 envelopes and send it to the list helow. In a short while your mailbox will be FULL of money. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564D9.005BDA1B; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:43:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA01103 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:32:05 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA18367 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:13:07 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.235] (dialup16.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.235]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19645 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:26:51 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:17:36 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Stryder 1.0 details... SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Stryder 1.0 details... PostedDate: 07/19/97 09:17:36 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/19/97 09:43:20 AM-07/19/97 09:43:21 AM DeliveredDate: 07/19/97 09:43:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Greetings all, I had asked some questions on Mark Tilden's bot, Stryder 1.0 to Dave Hrynkiw (in reference to the pics on the solarbotics walking machine web page). Stryder 1.0 is a very tall bot that places its load vertically on the motors. The Stryder 1.0 pic is at: http://www.solarbotics.com/beam_3a.html Cheers, Brian -------------------------------------------------------------- >* how big is this thing? (i am guessing around 8-9" tall?) That sounds 'bout right. >* how does it handle bumpy terrain? (good, bad, just avoids it) LOUSY. Definitely a flat-surface walker with a maximum of about 1/8" clearance. It depends on it's (impressive) mobility to avoid obstacles. >* do you think a four motor walker such as this, could it be solarizable >(yep, no batteries for me--spend more on motors :)? Yes. It's quite power efficient as it doesn't move it's mass up and down excessively. >* are there any higher quality pics coming, so i can get some nitty gritty >details? I do have some, and it's on my "to do" list. Sorry about the delay! >* any other details about its construction would be helpful.... since it >seems to be a great test platform, i am thinking about building one >similar. i could make several "heads" and interchance them for different >behaviors, and etc. The legs are splayed out from vertical at approximately 5 degrees at 90 degree spacing from each other, surrounding the "head" motor which points up. The rear pair of legs are operating on a totally separate microcore from the front legs, which (surprisingly) allow it impressive control based on the phasing of the front legs. Hard to believe, but true! Saw it with mine own eyes (ah, the eyes...). The head mechanism is operated in turn with the leg activations, so it stops, looks around, then goes on it's merry old way. --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DB.00670F02; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:45:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA04285 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:34:31 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21587 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:42:20 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup25.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.244]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03883 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:56:18 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970721134119.009ec4a0@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:41:19 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Tilden's H-bridge In-Reply-To: References: <3396B153.DBD@execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Tilden's H-bridge PostedDate: 07/21/97 10:41:19 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/21/97 11:45:42 AM-07/21/97 11:45:44 AM DeliveredDate: 07/21/97 11:45:44 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Going through all of the old email archives i ran across this... >>Please mention your H-bridge and solar engine patent no. info, or include >>the patents, on your web site. Well, the patent is available as we all know, but what is this H-bridge thingy (i am assuming it is not a traditional H-bridge)? Wondering, Brian --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DB.006D7362; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:55:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA05076 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:44:23 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21869 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:08:05 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA22943 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA16351 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:07:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970721134119.009ec4a0@wingate> References: <3396B153.DBD@execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:08:17 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Tilden's H-bridge SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Tilden's H-bridge PostedDate: 07/21/97 12:08:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/21/97 12:55:37 PM-07/21/97 12:55:38 PM DeliveredDate: 07/21/97 12:55:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 1:41 PM -0400 7/21/97, Brian O. Bush wrote: >Going through all of the old email archives i ran across this... >>>Please mention your H-bridge and solar engine patent no. info, or include >>>the patents, on your web site. >Well, the patent is available as we all know, but what is this H-bridge >thingy (i am assuming it is not a traditional H-bridge)? Um, not only is his H-bridge a little out of the ordinary (depending as it does on the complementary outputs of a couple of Nv neurons) but he apparently has come up with a newer one that is even more energy-efficient. Too bad he doesn't need any more buttons (the 2 1/4" kind with a pin) right now, otherwise I could swap them for the diagrams (which I'd pretty up and all.) Mebbe he'll break down (hint hint, please Mark?) and sketch the two circuits, how he puts them together (his H-bridges end up being about the same size as a small marble,) scan them, and send the GIFs to someone who could make them available on a web page. (hint hint, please Mark?) Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.000AE861; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:59:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07007 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:47:55 -0700 Received: from zenith.Berkeley.EDU (zenith.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.177.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA22632 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:22:22 -0500 Received: from [128.32.177.184] (vault-particle.Berkeley.EDU) by zenith.Berkeley.EDU (4.1/1.31) id AA15386; Mon, 21 Jul 97 18:23:33 PDT Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 18:23:32 PDT X-Sender: pangloss@thor.he.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970721134119.009ec4a0@wingate> <3396B153.DBD@execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 3.0 for Macintosh To: beam@webconn.com From: Chris Seidel Subject: Re: Tilden's H-bridge SMTPOriginator: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu From: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Tilden's H-bridge PostedDate: 07/21/97 06:23:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/21/97 06:59:19 PM-07/21/97 06:59:20 PM DeliveredDate: 07/21/97 06:59:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Zoz wrote: [...snip...] >Um, not only is his H-bridge a little out of the ordinary (depending as it >does on the complementary outputs of a couple of Nv neurons) but he [...snip...] >Mebbe he'll break down (hint hint, please Mark?) and sketch the two >circuits, how he puts them together (his H-bridges end up being about the >same size as a small marble,) scan them, and send the GIFs to someone who >could make them available on a web page. (hint hint, please Mark?) I'd be happy to donate web space for the above mentioned stuff, as well as any other interesting stuff, at a relatively simple URL like http://www.pangloss.com/BEAM (or Robot or something). -Chris Dept of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California at Berkeley $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.001E4D95; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:30:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07290 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:19:38 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23157 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:46:32 -0500 Received: from port117.img.net ([207.34.144.117]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA268; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:50:32 -0700 Received: by port117.img.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC961F.76558540@port117.img.net>; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:45:53 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC961F.76558540@port117.img.net> From: "Mairs, T." To: "'LFPIII@aol.com'" , "BEAM (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Web Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:38:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: RE: Web PostedDate: 07/21/97 09:38:43 PM SendTo: LFPIII@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/21/97 10:31:04 PM-07/21/97 10:31:05 PM DeliveredDate: 07/21/97 10:31:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Try this one http://www.img.net/aasland/robotica.html or http://www.solarbotics.com TOM -----Original Message----- From: LFPIII@aol.com [SMTP:LFPIII@aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 2:54 PM To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Web Can anyone tell me the web address for the updated list of beam related sites. Respectfully, Luis Perez $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.002F1873; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:32:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07414 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:21:34 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA23554 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:02:12 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA11150; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:01:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id CAA14424; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199707220801.CAA14424@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Web To: LFPIII@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <970721175256_1347231852@emout13.mail.aol.com> from "LFPIII@aol.com" at Jul 21, 97 05:53:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Web PostedDate: 07/22/97 01:01:50 AM SendTo: LFPIII@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 01:32:53 AM-07/22/97 01:32:53 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 01:32:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Can anyone tell me the web address for the updated list of beam related > sites. > This is the generic welcome and it lists the more 'official' BEAM WWW pages. If you have a page to add please let me know and I will add it to: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html Thanks! Mark NOTE: All mailing list requests subscribe/unsubscribe should ONLY be sent to: beam-request@webconn.com Hello and Welcome to the new BEAM e-mail list, it was just setup today, so there are only a few of us. Also if you want your name and/or WWW page added to the BEAM WWW page, just send 'mwd@lanl.gov' the information. To send or reply to messages the e-mail list (which sends to everyone) is: beam@webconn.com Currently I am adding people by hand, but will automate this later. I do have this list setup to be archived now you can get more BEAM information and access to the archives at: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html The FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) is at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html Other BEAM WWW links: http://sst.lanl.gov/robot/ <-- Home of BEAM. http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html http://www.golden.net/~amiller/beam.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html The idea/concept of this e-mail list is to provide a place to discuss and share information about BEAM Robotics. To encourage sharing of ideas, resources, and minds to make understanding and building easier. Also this is a method of letting people know of new ideas, resources, meetings, and competitions. Well this is a place to start. Currently this is a very informal group, and we will just see how it goes. Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.004CEAD7; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:00:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA07674 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 06:48:59 -0700 Received: from bsdmail3.golden.net (bsdmail3.golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23842 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:17:10 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco1-78.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.78]) by bsdmail3.golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA08774 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33D4B341.7967@golden.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:18:57 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Tilden's H switch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 06:18:57 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 07:00:16 AM-07/22/97 07:00:17 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 07:00:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Quick sketch.... http://www.golden.net/~amiller/hswitch.gif This is real simple and handy way to make things go.... No fancy protection though 0,0 = Smoke Inputs to the trigger transistors should have at least 50K on them... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.0052626E; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:59:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07858 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:48:38 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24030 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:16:01 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts38ip113.cadvision.com [207.228.71.113]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id IAA238948; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:11:31 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970722082146.00c7a10c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:21:46 -0600 To: Andrew Miller , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch In-Reply-To: <33D4B341.7967@golden.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 07:21:46 AM SendTo: amiller@golden.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 07:59:58 AM-07/22/97 07:59:59 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 07:59:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:18 AM 7/22/97 -0400, Andrew Miller wrote: >Quick sketch.... >http://www.golden.net/~amiller/hswitch.gif >This is real simple and handy way to make things go.... >No fancy protection though 0,0 = Smoke >Inputs to the trigger transistors should have at least 50K on them... Here's another I came across lately that was published in Nuts'n'Volts in the "Scott Edwards Basic Stamp" column. It's a really good read with lots of different motor driving configurations, including one that is arranged just like this. ftp://ftp.nutsvolts.com/pub/nutsvolts/library/stampaps/st_ap23.pdf Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.005EE139; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:16:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA08553 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:05:13 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24354 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:21:17 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA25571; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id KAA20825; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:21:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33D4B341.7967@golden.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:21:30 -0600 To: Andrew Miller From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 09:21:30 AM SendTo: amiller@golden.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 10:16:24 AM-07/22/97 10:16:26 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 10:16:26 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 9:18 AM -0400 7/22/97, Andrew Miller wrote: >Quick sketch.... >http://www.golden.net/~amiller/hswitch.gif >This is real simple and handy way to make things go.... >No fancy protection though 0,0 = Smoke >Inputs to the trigger transistors should have at least 50K on them... Even so, but I think Tilden has been using FETs for a while, primarily because they hardly drop any voltage (and therefore power) when they are on. Do you happen to know about that one? Actually, I may well have a xerox of a sketch of it that I could dig out, now that I think of it... Thanks! Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.0062D9CB; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:59:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA08874 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:48:39 -0700 Received: from bsdmail3.golden.net (bsdmail3.golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24425 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:43:33 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-176.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.176]) by bsdmail3.golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA23750; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33D4E39E.1831@golden.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:45:18 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John A. de Vries II" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 09:45:18 AM SendTo: zozzles@lanl.gov CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 10:59:47 AM-07/22/97 10:59:48 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 10:59:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US are > on. Do you happen to know about that one? Actually, I may well have a > xerox of a sketch of it that I could dig out, now that I think of it... > > Thanks! > > Zoz Same circiut just uses fets... Advantage is Current ... Fets will drive 5 or 10 amps easily with no heat... Problem, capacitive isolation from the microcore leads to poor feedback caracteristics... If your motors work below an Amp transistors are the way to go... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.00660C3C; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:34:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09022 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:23:30 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24622 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:34:40 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts61ip184.cadvision.com [207.228.74.184]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA222050; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:30:00 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970722114051.00c79254@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:40:51 -0600 To: "John A. de Vries II" , Andrew Miller From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: References: <33D4B341.7967@golden.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 10:40:51 AM SendTo: zozzles@lanl.gov,amiller@golden.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 11:34:50 AM-07/22/97 11:34:51 AM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 11:34:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:21 AM 7/22/97 -0600, John A. de Vries II wrote: >Even so, but I think Tilden has been using FETs for a while, primarily >because they hardly drop any voltage (and therefore power) when they are >on. Do you happen to know about that one? Actually, I may well have a >xerox of a sketch of it that I could dig out, now that I think of it... Yup - those are for the higher current 'bots that can draw amps of current. The trick is that the FETs he found (surplus), are impossible to source from a manufacturer! I may have found a replacement part tho. The original FETs I have found were in Micropolis hard drives, but another HD I found had a different part number where the "old" fets were on the first, so I'll look into it. As for the package, it _is_ a tight bundle. The first edition of walker kits we did for the LANL workshop 2 years ago used this layout. If Mark doesn't have any objection, I'll be glad to publish the "how-to" page from the instruction set. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.0068D7B6; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:05:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09135 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:53:52 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24709 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:56:37 -0500 Received: from scotty.bogon.com [207.6.172.36] by wu.bogon.com with esmtp (Exim 1.651 #3) id 0wqjAf-0006qu-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:56:25 -0700 From: "Scott Martin" To: Subject: Plastic batteries Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:59:15 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: Plastic batteries PostedDate: 07/22/97 10:59:15 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 12:05:16 PM-07/22/97 12:05:17 PM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 12:05:17 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Has anyone heard anything new on those plastic batteries that where in Scientific American's April `97 issue? "The cells can store more electrical energy per gram than lead-acid or nickel-cadmium cells, although not yet as much as lithium batteries." The article also stated that the batteries at present time could only put out 3 volts. Good enough for our applications. I'm looking around, so if I find anything useful...or if any of you know... ScottyDogma $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DC.006FA615; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:19:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09823 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:08:25 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24903 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:25:53 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA22647 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19350; Tue, 22 Jul 97 12:25:17 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <33D4B341.7967@golden.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:28:28 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Tilden's H switch PostedDate: 07/22/97 12:28:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 01:19:37 PM-07/22/97 01:19:38 PM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 01:19:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > >Even so, but I think Tilden has been using FETs for a while, primarily >because they hardly drop any voltage (and therefore power) when they are >on. Do you happen to know about that one? Actually, I may well have a >xerox of a sketch of it that I could dig out, now that I think of it... Fets are usefull only for large scale (ie: > 2amp) robot designs because I can't take the time to research hi-power transistors. FETs are a problem though because there's no feedback without additional circuitry, so plasticity characteristics have to be handled in suspension mechanics. Much easier to use Nv electronics through leaky buffers where you can, but it is possible to use FETs if you're brave. Miller's H-bridge sketch is accurate but it leaves out a few things, namely the 74c138 which is used as a dual decoder to avoid the double-trigger=smoke option, and to serve as a dynamic break controller. I have it as a text file from years ago, I just have to pull it out of the archives. Stay tuned. Will post. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DD.000B5789; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:03:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11547 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:52:21 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25911 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:30:49 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18982; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:35:37 -0700 Received: from sun.lib.wa.us by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08860; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:23:54 -0700 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by sun.lib.wa.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17408; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:30:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: Scott Martin cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Plastic batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Re: Plastic batteries PostedDate: 07/22/97 06:23:53 PM SendTo: scotty@bogon.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/22/97 07:03:57 PM-07/22/97 07:03:58 PM DeliveredDate: 07/22/97 07:03:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Scott Martin wrote: > > Has anyone heard anything new on those plastic batteries > that where in Scientific American's April `97 issue? > > "The cells can store more electrical energy per gram than > lead-acid or nickel-cadmium cells, although not yet as much > as lithium batteries." > > The article also stated that the batteries at present time could > only put out 3 volts. Good enough for our applications. > > I'm looking around, so if I find anything useful...or if any > of you know... > > ScottyDogma > I was just going to to post to the list about that! I went to the Excite search engine and did a quick search on "Plastic Batteries" and came up with some interesting links and stuff. This is by no means _all_ of what I found, as I said, it was a quick search. newswise.com/articles/BATTERY.JHU.html www.matmo.org/news/sections/archive/battery.html Another Article Johns Hopkins University news releases can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/ In addition, Johns Hopkins University science and medical news releases can be accessed on-line through the following services: + CompuServe in the SciNews-MedNews library of the Journalism Forum under file extensions ".JHM" or ".JHU"; also in NASW Online in the same forum. + Quadnet: send email to: scitech@quadnet.vyne.com. In the body of the message type "info Quadnet." + EurekAlert! at http://www.eurekalert.org + Automatic e-mail delivery (for journalists only). For information, send e-mail to dro@jhu.edu Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.00209CA7; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:56:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA16118 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:45:02 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27630 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:39:28 -0500 Received: from butch.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@butch.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.119]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12094; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:39:22 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by butch.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id XAA28597; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:39:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199707240539.XAA28597@butch.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Pager Motors To: BECKINGHAM@msn.com (Paul Beckingham) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:39:20 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: from "Paul Beckingham" at Jul 24, 97 05:23:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/23/97 10:39:20 PM SendTo: BECKINGHAM@msn.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/23/97 10:56:20 PM-07/23/97 10:56:22 PM DeliveredDate: 07/23/97 10:56:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > I have read about pager motors, used them, I own some, but I still don't know > what they really are. Sure, they are electric motors, but I don't know what a > pager is. Would someone explain for me the meaning of 'pager'? What is this > mystical device? > Paul, Pagers are evil devices... also known as a 'beeper', those little things many of us wear for work so that people can find us... You call a given number (and leave a number) and then that forwards a message or phone number to the pager/beeper that I am wearing. The pager either annoys people and makes beeping noises, or on silent mode it vibrates (that is the little motor with a weight on one side turning). Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.00216B67; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:05:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA16130 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:53:48 -0700 Received: from upsmot02.msn.com (upsmot02.msn.com [204.95.110.79]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27583 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:24:54 -0500 Received: from upmajb09 ([204.95.110.82]) by upsmot02.msn.com (8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id WAA04879 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:20:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 05:23:15 UT From: "Paul Beckingham" Message-Id: To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Pager Motors SMTPOriginator: BECKINGHAM@msn.com From: BECKINGHAM@msn.com Subject: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/23/97 10:23:15 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/23/97 11:05:11 PM-07/23/97 11:05:12 PM DeliveredDate: 07/23/97 11:05:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have read about pager motors, used them, I own some, but I still don't know what they really are. Sure, they are electric motors, but I don't know what a pager is. Would someone explain for me the meaning of 'pager'? What is this mystical device? Thanks. Paul. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.002917D8; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:28:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16205 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:17:36 -0700 Received: from zenith.Berkeley.EDU (zenith.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.177.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA27900 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:02:57 -0500 Received: from [128.32.177.184] (vault-particle.Berkeley.EDU) by zenith.Berkeley.EDU (4.1/1.31) id AA21535; Thu, 24 Jul 97 00:03:48 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 00:03:47 PDT X-Sender: pangloss@thor.he.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 3.0 for Macintosh To: beam@webconn.com From: Chris Seidel Subject: Re: Pager Motors SMTPOriginator: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu From: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/24/97 12:03:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/24/97 12:29:03 AM-07/24/97 12:29:03 AM DeliveredDate: 07/24/97 12:29:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >but I don't know what a pager is. Would someone explain for me the >meaning of 'pager'? What is this mystical device? It's a generation identification device worn by virtually every person under the age of 25 in the San Francisco Bay area and other metropolitan areas of California. As Mark said, they used to be worn mostly by drug dealers and some working people, until they became trendy fashion statements. -Chris Dept of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California at Berkeley $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.002AA20D; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:45:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16223 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:34:28 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28017 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 02:31:36 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D[K08954; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:30:34 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: pots.. Message-ID: <19970724.025947.7807.5.nytwulf@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-7 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:30:34 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: pots.. PostedDate: 07/24/97 12:30:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/24/97 12:45:43 AM-07/24/97 12:45:43 AM DeliveredDate: 07/24/97 12:45:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US i was trying to design a type of legged photovore.. where the whole thing was hard wired as far as programing goes.. i was wondering how good potentiometers are as showing leg positions? i.e. placed within the joint or something to that effect.. im very new at this so i appologize to those that wish to backhand me.. =] Nytie.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.00622F30; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:52:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA17525 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:41:17 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com (emout02.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.93]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28955 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:03:43 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA24985 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970724130305_-1744030879@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: pots.. SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: Re: pots.. PostedDate: 07/24/97 10:03:40 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/24/97 10:52:30 AM-07/24/97 10:52:31 AM DeliveredDate: 07/24/97 10:52:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >i was trying to design a type of legged photovore.. where the whole thing >was hard wired as far as programing goes.. i was wondering how good >potentiometers are as showing leg positions? i.e. placed within the joint >or something to that effect.. im very new at this so i appologize to >those that wish to backhand me.. =] > >Nytie.. Are you using a microcore? If you are, check out the letter "Proprioception and Kinesthesia In Nervous Net Walkers " at: http://www.golden.net/~amiller/nvmove.htm\ There was a bunch of comments about giving legged robots the ability to sense where their legs were and what angle they were at. The use of pots was one suggestion. If you aren't using a micocore, you may want to consider using one to control the legs, and then making the the bot phototropic using some photoresistors. Check out this page for building a microcore: http://www.golden.net/~amiller/Microcore.htm And this one for information on making them phototropic: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/9879/microfaq.htm Just my 2 cents. Ivar Of course, that sure makes your photovore complicated in a hurry, doesn't it? ;-> $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DE.007D8493; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:50:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18605 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:32:42 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29078 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:36:50 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA25383 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29950; Thu, 24 Jul 97 11:36:13 MDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:53:50 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Biomech Motor Bridges. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Biomech Motor Bridges. PostedDate: 07/23/97 10:53:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/24/97 03:51:04 PM-07/24/97 03:51:05 PM DeliveredDate: 07/24/97 03:51:05 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi. The following circuits were developed in 1988 when I needed a quality H-switch and just got fed up with all the conventional drivers I rapidly destroyed under variable loads. Even today I still can't find a commercial motor driver with specs like these, so I present them here. Some assembly required. Personal use only. Excerpted from the draft "Principa Robotica", due out this (fall? spring?). Need VT100 or COURIER mode to view. Sorry for any spelling and editing errors. markt. ---------------- Motor Drivers and Control: Biomech Motor Bridges: Though there are many other DC motor drivers on the market, most are difficult to configure for the low-power, variable load operations biomech devices require. The following circuits are based on a SCR-like current amplifier arrangement which, when biased correctly, works quite well for most push-pull inductive actuators from solenoids to stepper motors. The advantages are: - Low parts and connection count. - Operable voltage range 1.7v - 60v (or whatever your transistors will do). - Standby current: zero amps to six decimal places. - Reasonable efficiency (motor efficiency (watts) - [[Vcc - 1.7v] x motor amps]). - Folds elegantly into tight package. - Variable gain on either half of bridge (to compensate for motor inequalities) - Nv feedback configurable. - CMOS or TTL drive compatible. - + or - control edge reconfigurable. - Inexpensive. The motor bridge circuit is based on this simple power-mode amplifier: Vcc | | p R1 N---n +ve input >--\/\/\--p P n | | (M) (DC motor) | | | N |----p n | | Gnd | Figure 1: A high-gain one-way motor driver (+ve trigger) When the input is high, current flows through the respective drive transistor bases biasing them into an active state and allowing current to flow through the motor. When the input is low, the current shuts off creating a very high impedance across the circuit. The advantage here is that the activating control input can be very low current provided its voltage is kept close to Vcc. This circuit is useful for pulse driving a motor in one direction from, for example, CMOS control outputs in solar-style designs where a high-impedance off-state is critical to save power. By doubling this circuit and folding it appropriately, a positive-edge triggered biomech motor H-bridge circuit can be configured as follows: Vcc |--------------------------| | drive transistor | bias transistor p / p / R1 N---n n---N R2 |-\/\/\--p P P p--\/\/\-| | n | (DC motor) | n | | | *--------*--(M)--*---------* | | | |-----| | | | | | | | | N | | N | | | | |-----p |---||--| p---|-----| | | | | n 0.47uF n | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Gnd |--------------------------| | | | | | | | | | | | |----------------------------------------| | | | | | | | |--------------------------------------------------| | | | | | ^+ve input1 +ve input2^ Figure 2: The Basic Biomech Motor Bridge (+ve trigger) Where: N p - NPN transistor (N = collector, p = base, n = emitter.) n P n - PNP transistor (P = collector, n = base, p = emitter.) p R1 and R2 must be greater than 50kohms to avoid over saturating the drive transistors (the drive transistors heat up and motor efficiency drops drastically. Usually not a fatal problem but power is wasted). R1, R2 can be as high as 20Mohms and still allow enough current to spin the motor, though current drops linearly with bias resistance increase. Exact bias equations vary depending on transistors used, but even high-power drive transistors can be controlled through small bias transistors, typically 2N3904s or 2N3906s. The motor power profile can be set at the driver itself by varying R1 and/or R2 accordingly. For example, on a legged robot, while a leg is raised it can move forward on very little power (R1 = 5meg typical), but while on the ground the motor power can be maximized (R2 = 68k) to take best advantage of battery power and to minimize 'kicking' force as robot travels through an environment. That is, the bridge can be easily biased to deliver a full-power leg-drive force, but only a minimal power leg-return force. Such biasing can also linearise the action of motors with a forward-reverse rotational discrepancy. Gearing or internal friction can give a motor uneven forward-backwards motion, which the careful biasing of either R1 or R2 can reduce. Furthermore, uniformly high values of R1 and R2 can cut down the motor torque to where it is unlikely to allow the motor to damage to itself from unexpected external forces. This biomech bridge can serve as a 'variable suspension' to reduce power requirements and back-gearing damage without the need for suspension. This is its one major advantage over all-or-nothing FET-based H-bridge drivers, and makes the biomech bridge invaluable during debugging and fine-tuning of complex mechanical designs. To drive the same motor from negative logic, the following circuit is required. The only change is the bias transistors' type (PNP) and orientation, and is the circuit most commonly used in biomech designs to take advantage of standard Nervous Net (Nv) control polarities. Vcc |--------------------------| | | p p R1 p---n n---p R2 |-\/\/\--n P P n--\/\/\-| | P | | P | | | *--------*--(M)--*---------* | | | |-----| | | | | | | | | N | | N | | | | |-----p |---||--| p---|-----| | | | | n 0.47uF n | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Gnd |--------------------------| | | | | | | | | | | | |----------------------------------------| | | | | | | | |--------------------------------------------------| | | | | | ^+ve input1 +ve input2^ Figure 3: The Basic Biomech Motor Bridge (-ve trigger) And of course, the bias transistors can also be mismatched to make an alternate input polarity driver, fine for straight push-pull from a single control source if desired. The only problem being that the motor can never turn off while power is applied. Vcc |--------------------------| | | p p R1 p---n n---N R2 |-\/\/\--n P P p--\/\/\-| | P | | n | | | *--------*--(M)--*---------* | | | |-----| | | | | | | | | N | | N | | | | |-----p |---||--| p---|-----| | | | | n 0.47uF n | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Gnd |--------------------------| | | | | | | | | | | | |----------------------------------------| | | | | | | | |--------------------------------------------------| | | | | | *------------------------------------------------------------| | ^ input Figure 4: The Single Input Biomech Motor Bridge The difficulty is that either of the first two basic bridges can still smokeshow if both sides of the bridge are triggered at the same time. For a more stable, generic motor controller, the following does the job of isolating the decoded inputs so that a standard two-bit digital output can never fry the circuitry (provided the control signals are kept at low frequency): Vcc |---------------------*----| | | | p | p R1 p---n | n---p R2 |-\/\/\--n P | P n--\/\/\-| | P | | | P | | | *--------*--(M)--*----|----* | | | |-----| | | | | | | | | | N | | | N | | | | |-----p |---||--| | p---|-----| | | | | n 0.47uF | n | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Gnd |------*--------------|----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |--------------| -------------|----------| | | | | | | | | | |------------------| -------------|----------------| | | | | | |-----------------------|---| |--------|---------------------| | | | |---| | | | ---------|-----< Reverse Error < --------- | | | -------|-----< Forward | | | | | | -----|-----< enable (-ve) | | | | | | | | | | 8 1 | | | 74xx139 < | | 9 16 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |----| Figure 5: The Safety Motor Bridge The 74xx139 (xx represents LS, C, HCT, HC, or whatever voltage specification is required) is a symmetrical dual one-of-four decoder that can handle two such motor bridges elegantly from one chip, typically mirrored on either side. The Error output from the 74139, if put through an LED for example, would indicate if an inappropriate input was generated by the controller, often useful in debugging control code in processor based designs. The decoders enable input will turn off the bridge adequately but it does make the bridge circuit susceptible to stray inductive signals. If this driver is in a noisy environment or driven over long control lines (six inches or more), two 1meg pull-up resistors to Vcc on the outside edges of R1 and R2 will keep the bridge from picking up stray trigger signals and false starting the motor. A further use for the Error output is as a dynamic break control. The modifications for this is as follows: Vcc |---------------------*----| 1N914 | | | |--|<------------------------------------------| | | | | | |---*--|<-------| | | | | | | p | p | | R1 p-*-n | n-*-p R2 | |-\/\/\--n P | P n--\/\/\-| | | P | | | P | | | | *--------*--(M)--*----|----* | | | | |-----| | | | | | | | | | | N | | | N | | | | | |-----p |---||--| | p---|-----| | | | | | n 0.47uF | n | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Gnd |------*--------------|----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |--------------| -------------|----------| | | | | | | | | | | | |------------------| -------------|----------------| | | | | | | | |-----------------------|---| |--------|---------------------| | | | | |---| | | | | ---------|-----< Reverse | | | | | -------|-----< Forward |--------------------------|-| | | | | -----|-----< engage (-ve) | | | | | | | | | | 8 1 | | | 74LS139 < | | 9 16 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |----| Figure 3: The Full-Feature Motor Bridge The two additional diodes mean that when both Reverse and Forward are triggered (1, 1), the motor shorts across the connecting Vcc rail. Not as good as a relay short, but effective, simple, and solid-state for using the motors back-EMF to quickly halt the motor and assist in holding its position. This design thus features all four useful control states for a motor: Free-wheel (0,0), Forward (0,1), Backward (1,0), and Break (1,1). Furthermore, as dynamic breaking does not shunt across Vcc and ground, the electrical noise generated is significantly reduced, making this circuit safer, if not ideal, for sensitive digital controllers. For motors up to one watt (standard hobby motors) these circuits have shown themselves quite capable using common switching transistors. For more powerful motors, larger transistors with built-in shunt diodes are recommended to keep back-EMF spikes from blowing out the base-emitter couplings. The problem with such designs is that these spikes are dumped on the Vcc-ground rails and can severely destabilize any control circuitry that share this power. Nv designs are resistant to such effects but even still, strong bypass caps (1000uF or better) are recommended across the Vcc-ground rails on every bridge. Copyright Mark W. Tilden All rights reserved. Jan. 1993 $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DF.0012E287; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:26:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19453 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:15:04 -0700 Received: from upsmot03.msn.com (upsmot03.msn.com [204.95.110.85]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA30018 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:53:02 -0500 Received: from upmajb04.msn.com ([204.95.110.81]) by upsmot03.msn.com (8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id TAA05288 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:48:34 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 02:42:59 UT From: "Paul Beckingham" Message-Id: To: beam@webconn.com Subject: RE: RE: Pager Motors SMTPOriginator: BECKINGHAM@msn.com From: BECKINGHAM@msn.com Subject: RE: RE: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/24/97 07:42:59 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/24/97 08:26:27 PM-07/24/97 08:26:28 PM DeliveredDate: 07/24/97 08:26:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > "... generation identification device ..." > "... evil devices ..." Thank you all for defining what a 'pager' motor is. I know this instrument as a 'beeper', and have never heard it referred to as a 'pager'. Maybe it's an east coast thing. I never realized there were motors in them. So now I know what they are, and that they are supposedly efficient. How efficient are they? Is the efficiency of a motor a measurable attribute for someone with limited equipment? (limited meaning a Weller, a Fluke, a pencil and eight pairs of pliers) Paul. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DF.0056ED42; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:49:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA20314 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:37:52 -0700 Received: from r1.boston.juno.com (r1.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.241]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31443 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:06:47 -0500 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by r1.boston.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.6.Beta0/2.0.kim) with ESMTP id BAAAA00413 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BRX09410; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:07:56 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Pager Motors Message-ID: <19970725.003645.7807.5.nytwulf@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,5-8,10-14,16 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:07:56 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/24/97 10:07:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/25/97 08:49:32 AM-07/25/97 08:49:33 AM DeliveredDate: 07/25/97 08:49:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 25 Jul 97 02:42:59 UT "Paul Beckingham" writes: >Thank you all for defining what a 'pager' motor is. I know this instrument as >a 'beeper', and have never heard it referred to as a 'pager'. Maybe it's an >east coast thing. I never realized there were motors in them. might be.. but it is both out on "the east coast" =] im guessing the motor is what makes it vibrate when you dont want to make it actualy 'beep' >(limited meaning a Weller, a Fluke, a pencil and eight pairs of >pliers) hehe sounds like me.. but i dont have the first two but i do have a pair of diagonal cutters.. ;) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564DF.0065A51D; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:30:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA21346 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:19:01 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA31862 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:24:29 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:03:50 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 97 09:02:06 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 97 09:01:58 +800 Received: from alan-ws.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 97 09:01:53 +800 X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:06:02 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: Pager Motors Message-ID: <147C9FE515D@email.scrnet.com> SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: Pager Motors PostedDate: 07/24/97 09:06:02 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/25/97 11:30:19 AM-07/25/97 11:30:20 AM DeliveredDate: 07/25/97 11:30:20 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:23 AM 7/24/97 UT, you wrote: >I have read about pager motors, used them, I own some, but I still don't know >what they really are. Sure, they are electric motors, but I don't know what a >pager is. Would someone explain for me the meaning of 'pager'? What is this >mystical device? > >Thanks. >Paul. > I'd kill to not know what a pager was much less own one! Alan Serl $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E0.00084C49; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:30:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23054 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:19:13 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01000 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:58:10 -0500 Received: from ts76ip110.cadvision.com (ts76ip110.cadvision.com [207.228.113.110]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA251282 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:53:43 -0600 Received: by ts76ip110.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC992B.ABD46C40@ts76ip110.cadvision.com>; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:50:50 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC992B.ABD46C40@ts76ip110.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: AUV progress Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:50:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: AUV progress PostedDate: 07/25/97 05:50:39 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/25/97 06:30:40 PM-07/25/97 06:30:41 PM DeliveredDate: 07/25/97 06:30:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yea I'm still working on it, and not even the circuitry yet. Since I don't have 3000 or 5000 pound press's, or any metal working equipment except for an anvil, sledge hammers...Any welding equipment isn't available to me without a $500 price tag. Right now It has the possibility to just move forwards, but after sonar sensors or other, and the stamp board it should be nice. Any suggestion's will be greatly helpful Note to Dave HockeyRink I'm too lazy to make two emails, anyway I need some pager motors, some more powerful cap.'s both types of cells, and some advice. I don't need them immediately so if we can arrange a time in one of the next 7 days that you have some free time , contact me about it. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E0.00516939; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:49:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA23493 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 07:38:00 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01400 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:32:58 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.6) id JAA05677; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:32:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (anubis.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.100]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA13684; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:32:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33DA1804.2909@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:30:12 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hyndman CC: beam@webconn.com, INTERLITH@aol.com Subject: Re: AUV progress References: <01BC992B.ABD46C40@ts76ip110.cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Re: AUV progress PostedDate: 07/26/97 08:30:12 AM SendTo: hyndmanm@cadvision.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com,INTERLITH@aol.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/26/97 07:49:22 AM-07/26/97 07:49:23 AM DeliveredDate: 07/26/97 07:49:23 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hyndman wrote: > > Yea I'm still working on it, and not even the circuitry yet. Since I don't have 3000 or 5000 pound press's, or any metal working equipment except for an anvil, > Try putting your electronics into a PVC pipe and using one-liter bottles for the bouyancy tanks. You can change the tank water level until the AUV is neutrally bouyant. From there, a small motor can push it under water. PVC pipe has at least a 125 psi rating. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E0.0078FF73; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:01:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23984 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:50:11 -0700 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01632 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:43:43 -0500 Received: (from nytwulf@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RCI11767; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:42:31 EDT To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: AUV progress Message-ID: <19970726.171109.17311.3.nytwulf@juno.com> References: <01BC992B.ABD46C40@ts76ip110.cadvision.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-9,15-16 From: nytwulf@juno.com (Nyt wulf) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:42:31 EDT SMTPOriginator: nytwulf@juno.com From: nytwulf@juno.com Subject: Re: AUV progress PostedDate: 07/26/97 02:42:31 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/26/97 03:01:42 PM-07/26/97 03:01:43 PM DeliveredDate: 07/26/97 03:01:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:50:39 -0600 Hyndman writes: >Yea I'm still working on it, and not even the circuitry yet. Since I >don't have 3000 or 5000 pound press's, or any metal working equipment >except for an anvil, sledge hammers...Any welding equipment isn't >available to me without a $500 price tag. Right now It has the >possibility to just move forwards, but after sonar sensors or other, and >the stamp board it should be nice. Any suggestion's will be greatly helpful would it be possible to etch a circut board? its not as compact as more modern boards.. but its much cheeper.. we did this in school for some simple circuts.. its more or less sketching out your circut onto copper coated plate then dipping it into a special type of solvant that eats off the copper except where you sketched in the contacts, pads, and conductor.. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E2.00827E35; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:45:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28593 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:33:32 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00622 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:42:55 -0500 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15819 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:52:30 -0500 Received: from butch.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@butch.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.119]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19104 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:52:26 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by butch.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id VAA08323 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:52:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199707280352.VAA08323@butch.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: BEAM: India: 6th International BEAM Games To: beam@webconn.com Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:52:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: BEAM: India: 6th International BEAM Games PostedDate: 07/27/97 08:52:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/28/97 04:45:29 PM-07/28/97 04:45:30 PM DeliveredDate: 07/28/97 04:45:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US As you may be aware.. We are going to have the 6th International BEAM Games in Lucknow, India: November 20th to the 23rd, 1997. Also the QUANTA International Competition for Science is schedule November 25th to November 28th, 1997. You can find this information through: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam-india.html http://members.tripod.com/~biru/CMS2.html You can find information on the Organizers of this in India at: http://members.tripod.com/~biru/cms.html QUANTA '97 Third International Competition for Science (Science, Mathematics, Astronomy and Computer Science) Organized by : City Montessori Intermediate College, Chowk Branch, Lucknow. INDIA 25th to 28th November, 1997. LAST DATE for REGISTRATION - 15th AUGUST, 1997. Dear Friends, QUANTA '97, the third International Competition for Science is scheduled from November 25th to 28th, 1997. It is our pleasure to extend to you an invitation to participate in the competition. Your College is to be represented by a team comprising of seven students and a teacher, as the Team Leader. QUANTA '97 is an effort to mobilize youth into creative activity, which will benefit humanity at large. Our focus is on the usage of science for positive and constructive purposes. Youth from all over the world will assemble at this four day meet, to compete in various events. The competitions are designed for an exchange of ideas, knowledge and technical know-how and an opportunity for testing skills. In the process the competitor as well as the spectator, gain equally in this learning / sharing experience for creating a comprehensive vision of the future. The events at QUANTA '97 are: 1. Debate 2. Collage 3.Science Quiz 4. Model Display 5. Computer Software 6.Mathematics Quiz 7. Seminar 8. Group Discussion. English is the official working language for QUANTA '97. However, certain events like Collage, Computer Software, Mathematics Quiz and Model Display, do not require proficiency in English. Details of events, scheduled programmes, rules and the registration forms, are included in this brochure. While in Lucknow we shall extend hospitality including boarding, lodging and transportation, to the participants free of charge. There is no registration fee. Since we can accommodate a limited number of teams, please send in your entry before 15th August, 1997, which is the last date for registration. Should you have a query about any aspect of QUANTA '97, we shall be glad to assist. We look forward to your participation. Please contact at any of the numbers below for registration. AND JUST BEFORE QUANTA '97 ( A CHANCE TO ATTEND TWO INTERNATIONAL EVENTS ALMOST TOGETHER !!!) 6th BEAM Robot Games Lucknow, INDIA. The 6th BEAM games are scheduled to be held from 20th to 23rd November, 1997 in Lucknow, India. We are glad to invite you to compete at these Robotic games. The categories are: SOLAROLLER PHOTOVORE AQUAVORE HIGH JUMP LONG JUMP ROPE CLIMBING LEGGED RACE AEROBOT ROBOART NANOMICE ROBOT SUMO MICROMOUSE INNOVATION MACHINE BEST MODIFIED TOY MISCELLANEOUS The details of these categories can be requested from the organizers. BEAM, which stands for Biology, Electronics, Aesthetics, and Mechanics (amongst others) is a system founded by Mark W. Tilden while at the University of Waterloo (Canada) that allows first time enthusiasts to get started easily. By building one more self-contained creatures, anyone can gain the confidence and ability to build a wider range of robotic devices, allowing them to compete in more challenging BEAM events, and advancing the evolutionary aspects of their robotic designs. The BEAM Robot Games is not as much a series of technological competitions as a chance for robot enthusiasts to present their designs to each other, the press, and the public. It is an open forum for anyone who wants to get started in the field of Alife robotics to compete and compare. Any and every robot will be considered so long as it does not come exclusively from a kit or store. Robots of similar ability will be pitted against each other in graded competitions, but generally robots will be judged on sophistication of behavior, novelty of design, efficiency of power source, and quality of hardware innovation. There are no age limits for participation. The organizers, City Montessori Intermediate College, Chowk, will provide free transportation for all participants in Lucknow and shall be glad to assist participants with travel plans and arrangements. Boarding and lodging are also free for participants who wish to stay at the venue for the BEAM games. If participants wish to stay elsewhere in Lucknow, we shall be glad to assist with reservations at places of their choice. (Please see details in the Registration form). The last date for returning the completed registration form, at the end, is 30th September, 1997. Sight see tours after the games can be arranged for the participants. Should you have a query regarding any aspect of the BEAM games, please contact: Ms. S. Chooramani Coordinator, 6th BEAM Games Lucknow, City Montessori Intermediate College, Chowk Branch, Lucknow 226003 India. The prime BEAM Games information website will be: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam-india.html Know more about the organizers at http://members.tripod.com/~biru/cms.html You can mail in your registration to the e-mail address indicated below. NOTE: Please see end of text. Telephones: College: (91)(522) - 269577 Head Office: (91)(522) - 229738 / 215483 Venue: (91)(522) - 394740 ( 20th to 23rd November,1997) Fax: College: (91)(522) - 269577 (After 6:00 p.m. IST) Head Office: (91)(522) - 212888 (Round-the-clock) Venue: (91)(522) - 395956 (Round-the-clock) ( 20th to 23rd November,1997) E-mail: Jagat@lw1.vsnl.net.in Internet ID: Jai.Jagat@sm4.sprintrpg.ems.vsnl.net.in Sprint Mail ID: Jai.Jagat/sm4 Rules and General Guidelines These are the rules and guidelines for the Sixth International BEAM Games. Although the spirit of these games stress on few formal restrictions, these are some general guidelines which every robot designer should follow. If a design does not fit these parameters or may but you're not sure, please contact the organizers for a ruling. Consideration will be given to very innovative, famous, or imaginative designs. The BEAM games are meant as a friendly meeting of mind and robo-critter with the public and the media. It is hoped that everyone will abide by this spirit. All those wishing to compete should fill out and send in a registration form for all robotic competitor(s) before Tuesday, 30th September, 1997. For the 6th International BEAM Robot Games, 1997. 1. All robotic devices must be either entirely custom built or a heavily modified appliance or toy. Devices which are completely hand-crafted will receive bonus points in all competitions. Any robotic competitor that is obviously of mass-produced, commercial manufacture and/or performs an obviously commercial task shall be disqualified as a competitor. 2. All robotic entries should be self-contained or have an option where they can execute behavior without human intervention. Devices which do not feature some autonomous ability are allowed, but will lose critical style points. 3. Any robotic entry may be disqualified if too large (i.e. bigger than a standard upright refrigerator). The sole reason for this is that display space, access doors, and power are limited. Exceptions may be granted for exceptional, famous, or self-powered entries that can be piece wise assembled. Please contact the organizers for a ruling. 4. If a robotic entry must use wall current, it can use only one plug at a nominal amperage (120 or 220 VAC, 3 Amps maximum drain). Any robot that uses a combustion process will be discouraged for safety reasons, and will not be allowed to run inside the competition auditorium. 5. BEAM competitions are designed to display robotic capabilities and skill, not brute force, so for the most part, no "violent" robotic competitors will be allowed. That is, no competitor may have a functionally destructive capacity ( i.e: drills, cutters, soldering iron, flame-thrower, chainsaw, etc.) although decorative or whimsical elements along this line are allowed ( i.e. water pistols, xenon flashes, etc.). Likewise, any robotic competitor that may damage the competition courses, other robot competitors, organizers, or audience will be disqualified if the destructive elements cannot be detached. Robotic competitors may interfere with each other during the course of simultaneous runs (where rules permit) so long as they do not violate the " no damage " rule. Anybody who justly feels his/her device could be damaged by another entrant will not suffer penalties for not competing in that trial, and where possible, time trial races will be run separately. Likewise, designers who accept that their machines could suffer major damage will also be respected (i.e. : No-holds-barred Robosumo). BEAM Robotics and affiliates take no responsibility for damage incurred by or afflicted on robotic device, persons, or reputations during the course of competition. 6. No robotic competitors can employ biological components (rats, chickens, lemon/potato batteries, etc.) except by special permission from the organizers. Even then, no devices will be allowed which harm biologics in any way. Likewise no robot can employ open caustic or explosive chemical substances in fluid, solid, or gas form. 7. Partially finished robotic competitors are allowed (even encouraged) to compete so long as there is some function they can exhibit to show what they may eventually be capable of. Again, if you are in doubt as to the validity of your entry, please contact the organizers directly. Exceptions will be made for particularly imaginative entries, or any disturbing feature that can be proved disconnected prior to competing. 6th BEAM Games Lucknow, INDIA. 20th to 23rd November, 1997. Organised by: City Montessori Intermediate College, Chowk Branch, Lucknow, India. The 1997 BEAM Robot Games: Registration form: Team Name (if applicable): ________________________________________________ Institute name (if any): _________________________________________________ Telephone number: ( ______ ) _____________ Fax: ___________________ e - mail: ___________________________________________________ Team Members: Name _____________________________________________________________________ Age ___________ Address: Street / apt / town _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ Country _________________________________________ Zip code _________________ Telephone ( _____ ) ______________________ Fax ( _____ ) ___________________ e-mail _____________________________ Name _______________________________________________________________________ Age ___________ Address: Street / apt / town ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ Country ________________________________________ Zip code _________________ Telephone ( _____ ) _____________________ Fax ( _____ ) ___________________ e-mail _____________________________ For additional members please use a photocopy of this page: Please check which BEAM event your entrant may qualify for. 1. SOLAR ROLLER 2. PHOTOVORE 3. AQUAVORE 4. HIGH JUMP 5. LONG JUMP 6. ROPE CLIMBING 7. LEGGED RACE 8. INNOVATION MACHINE 9. ROBOART 10. BEST MODIFIED TOY 11. ROBOT SUMO 12. NANOMICE 13. MICROMOUSE 14. AEROBOT 15. MISCELLANEOUS If Miscellaneous category, please state a skill which best describes your device. ___________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ Would you like to give a lecture on your device(s) or some related aspect? YES NO If yes, please describe your topic in two sentences: ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ Please give details of any extra equipment that you might need. 1.__________________________________________________________________________ 2.__________________________________________________________________________ 3.__________________________________________________________________________ 4.__________________________________________________________________________ Will the participants stay at the venue? YES NO if NO, is other accommodation needed ? YES NO Arrival details: Date: Time: Airline: Flight Number: Airport: Train Number: Up/Down Name of Train: Departure details: Date: Time: Airline: Flight Number: Airport: Train Number: Up/Down Name of Train: ADDITIONAL INFORMATION (IF ANY): ___ _________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ Important Information: 1. Registration forms must be accompanied by a nonreturnable fee of US $ 40 or its equivalent in Indian currency. (Cheque / Demand Draft in favour of CMS, Lucknow) 2. Boarding and lodging will be free for the participants if they stay at the venue. If they wish to stay outside, we shall assist with reservations at places of their choice. 3. City Montessori School shall provide free transportation from and to Lucknow Railway station / Airport for all participants. 4. Last date for registration is 30th September, 1997. 5. Venue for the competitions is City Montessori School, Gomtinagar. Lucknow. Please send in the completed registration form to: Ms. S. Chooramani Coordinator, 6th BEAM Games, Lucknow, City Montessori Intermediate College, Chowk Branch, Lucknow - 226003 India. Information web sites: http://sst.lanl.gov/robot/ (DAPS) group, LANL, New Mexico, USA. ( Information on the games and research done at the lab regarding Biomech Technology. Photos, papers, and announcements.) http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html www.solarbotics.com (Solarbotics, Calgary, Canada. ASCII Rulesets, Entrance forms, Information, etc. for the Western Canada Robot Games) http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html (Excellent Do-it-yourself Photovore plans, kits, and BEAM details.) http://www.golden.net/~amiller (Miller website, showing some of his 70 BEAM machines.) http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html (Pointers, plans, and references on robotic clubing and BEAM) -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E3.006C2EE5; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:41:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01101 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:30:13 -0700 Received: from lion.connect.more.net (lion.connect.more.net [198.209.253.32]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03944 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:01:06 -0500 Received: from MHOLDER ([204.185.173.101]) by lion.connect.more.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09848 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:00:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33DE3D26.47C8@mail.connect.more.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:57:42 -0500 From: Monte Holder Reply-To: sja028@mail.connect.more.net Organization: MHS X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BEAM Subject: circuit problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: sja028@mail.connect.more.net From: sja028@mail.connect.more.net Subject: circuit problems PostedDate: 07/29/97 11:57:42 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: sja028@mail.connect.more.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 12:41:46 PM-07/29/97 12:41:47 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 12:41:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I finally put together on a breadboard, a solar engine along the lines of the Brian Bush diagram using a 2n222a NPN and a 2n2907 for the PNP, 1.8kohm resistor, a 2200microf cap and a 1n914 diode and 2 24-33 mm sunceram soalr cells. I tried 2 different motors out of old tape decks. Anyway, I can't get it to run. I hooked the motors up to a pot a 2-D cells. One motor would start turning at 18ohms and 50mA, then I could turn the pot to 71ohms, reducing the current to 27mA before the motor would stop. When set in the sun the capacitor in the circuit would charge up to 1.65 or so volts and I thought it would "trup" but it never did. I also put another diode (1n914) in series with the other one to try to increase voltage since the 2 solar cells produce over 4V, it ought to drive the motor. Of course, I haven't checked the current produced by the solar cells and I didn't hook the batteries to the circuit. ANy help would be appreciated. Monte Holder $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E3.007438B9; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:09:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA01606 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:58:13 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04567 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:31:33 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA19075; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:31:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id OAA20115; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:31:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970729160956.0097b720@wingate> References: <33DE3D26.47C8@mail.connect.more.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:31:53 -0600 To: "Brian O. Bush" From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: circuit problems Cc: sja028@mail.connect.more.net, BEAM SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: circuit problems PostedDate: 07/29/97 01:31:53 PM SendTo: bbush@xtdl.com CopyTo: sja028@mail.connect.more.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 02:09:32 PM-07/29/97 02:09:33 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 02:09:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 4:09 PM -0400 7/29/97, Brian O. Bush wrote: >Monte, >Is your diode backwards? Should trip at around 0.6 volts with (1) diode of >the 1n914 type--if the circuit is getting enough juice. Let me know if this >is it--BTW, I find this to be a recurring problem. >Good luck, Brian Yes, it does feel weird the first time you figure out that the diode really ought to be forward biased so as to act as a voltage reference... and that you can stack the diodes in a like manner to take the trip voltage higher. Z $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E3.007470AB; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:11:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA01619 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:59:53 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04501 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:26:27 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05779 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:26:23 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA16645 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:26:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199707292026.OAA16645@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: The list and photopopper To: beam@webconn.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:26:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: The list and photopopper PostedDate: 07/29/97 01:26:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 02:11:55 PM-07/29/97 02:11:56 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 02:11:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US 1. The photopopper... I just wanted to make sure I mentioned that the photopopper (photovore) was in the last Nuts & Volts. http://www.nutsvolts.com/ <-- this has not been updated in awhile but that explains how to order it.. 2. The lists old archive was moved: Before July: http://www.webconn.com/mail/beam.9706/ Current information from July on is the same: http://www.webconn.com/mail/beam/ 3. The list is almost at 300 people now, from all over the world. 4. Minnesota/Wisconsin folks: Also I will be moving to Minnesota sometime before October, so if people wish to get together in that area, just let me know (just to me not the list). mwd@cray.com Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E3.0077D72F; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:48:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01775 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:37:48 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04926 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:16:45 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup18.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.237]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24562 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:31:44 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970729171544.00954b60@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:15:44 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: The BEAM FAQ and other technical information In-Reply-To: <199707292026.OAA16645@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: The BEAM FAQ and other technical information PostedDate: 07/29/97 02:15:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 02:49:10 PM-07/29/97 02:49:11 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 02:49:11 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I would like to inform the list that 1. The BEAM Robotics FAQ is available at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html 2. The BEAM Robotics Tek page, which lists the technical information that I have collected from the email list and myself is available at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/technical.html Enjoy! --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E3.0079270C; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:03:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01870 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:51:49 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04355 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:10:59 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup18.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.237]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA22801; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:25:55 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970729160956.0097b720@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:09:56 -0400 To: sja028@mail.connect.more.net, BEAM From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: circuit problems In-Reply-To: <33DE3D26.47C8@mail.connect.more.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: circuit problems PostedDate: 07/29/97 01:09:56 PM SendTo: sja028@mail.connect.more.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 03:03:27 PM-07/29/97 03:03:28 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 03:03:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Monte, Is your diode backwards? Should trip at around 0.6 volts with (1) diode of the 1n914 type--if the circuit is getting enough juice. Let me know if this is it--BTW, I find this to be a recurring problem. Good luck, Brian At 01:57 PM 7/29/97 -0500, Monte Holder wrote: >I finally put together on a breadboard, a solar engine along the lines >of the Brian Bush diagram using a 2n222a NPN and a 2n2907 for the PNP, >1.8kohm resistor, a 2200microf cap and a 1n914 diode and 2 24-33 mm >sunceram soalr cells. I tried 2 different motors out of old tape decks. > Anyway, I can't get it to run. I hooked the motors up to a pot a 2-D >cells. One motor would start turning at 18ohms and 50mA, then I could >turn the pot to 71ohms, reducing the current to 27mA before the motor >would stop. > When set in the sun the capacitor in the circuit would charge up to >1.65 or so volts and I thought it would "trup" but it never did. I >also put another diode (1n914) in series with the other one to try to >increase voltage since the 2 solar cells produce over 4V, it ought to >drive the motor. Of course, I haven't checked the current produced by >the solar cells and I didn't hook the batteries to the circuit. --- Brian O. Bush, mailto:bbush@xtdl.com Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E4.001515B7; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:50:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03053 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:38:58 -0700 Received: from nanaimo.ark.com (nanaimo.ark.com [207.107.182.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07305 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:22:48 -0500 Received: from na2p8.ark.com (na2p8.ark.com [207.107.182.119]) by nanaimo.ark.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13198 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:22:21 -0700 Message-ID: <33DE42B9.CA845BFE@nanaimobc.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:21:30 +0100 From: Matthew Wiebe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "beam@webconn.com" Subject: Unsubscribing to the list X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com From: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com Subject: Unsubscribing to the list PostedDate: 07/29/97 12:21:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/29/97 08:50:27 PM-07/29/97 08:50:28 PM DeliveredDate: 07/29/97 08:50:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I seem to remember a e-mail posted that sais don't post you're unsubscribes to the list. This is becoming an annoyance, just my thoughts. Matthew \\// |oo| |\/| \--/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.00041133; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:44:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA10096 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:33:02 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20464 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:35:45 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts8ip34.cadvision.com [207.228.67.34]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA116734 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:35:32 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970731174305.0075072c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:43:05 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Photopopper Fix.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Photopopper Fix.. PostedDate: 07/31/97 04:43:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/31/97 05:44:34 PM-07/31/97 05:44:36 PM DeliveredDate: 07/31/97 05:44:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just a note to all of our customers who are on the mailing list that there is a minor flaw with the Photopopper that may make it stop if the touch sensor whisker hits the motor. We've got full details on the problem and fix on our website at: http://www.solarbotics.com/pp42fix.html Our apologies for any problems this have caused you! Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564E6.00183038; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:24:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA10377 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:12:48 -0700 Received: from lcra.org ([198.214.48.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA21771 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:02:57 -0500 Received: from PRIMARY-Message_Server by lcra.org with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:01:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:54:49 -0600 From: "Richard R. Diaz" To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Sub-Micro Servos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline SMTPOriginator: richard.diaz@lcra.org From: richard.diaz@lcra.org Subject: Sub-Micro Servos PostedDate: 07/31/97 08:54:49 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 07/31/97 09:24:19 PM-07/31/97 09:24:20 PM DeliveredDate: 07/31/97 09:24:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey Beamers, Check out http://www.hobbyshack.com/features/cs020.htm for info & photo of a new ball bearing sub-micro servo (CS-20) made by Cirrus. 0.86 x 0.43 x 0.83 inches, 0.32 oz weight. Torque @ 4.8v = 11.11 oz/in. Price is $22.99. They can be reached at 1-800-854-8471. Later...Rick