$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AA.0083ACB3; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:58:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA29939 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:47:51 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11391 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:15:09 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id HAA26492 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:00:46 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA865344711 Tue, 03 Jun 97 06:31:51 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 97 06:31:51 Message-Id: <9705038653.AA865344711@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/02/97 11:31:51 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/02/97 04:58:26 PM-06/02/97 04:58:28 PM DeliveredDate: 06/02/97 04:58:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US They are useful prototyping tools for MicroCore projects. >-The few that Mark has given to others to further his, and >our, research are very jealously, and zealously guarded. Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you get the point. Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.000049FF; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:03:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA29966 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:52:51 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11488 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:30:06 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14939; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:29:58 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id RAA03607; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706022329.RAA03607@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? To: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <9705038653.AA865344711@vtech.com.hk> from "cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk" at Jun 3, 97 06:31:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/02/97 04:29:57 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/02/97 05:03:12 PM-06/02/97 05:03:12 PM DeliveredDate: 06/02/97 05:03:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Cam.. I am not sure what you mean by 'all of the secrecy', that was part of the reason for the list, also the WWW pages. Like GNU you cannot use the Nervous Net _for profit_. There is information on the WWW pages that take you step-by-step building a microcore and a walker. The papers on-line and patent also tell you about how to build the nervous nets. I don't get your point about the component values or 555's. How about a question of what information you need. I have been a bit out of the list, but that is due to my work schedule. I am sure that many of the circuits are limited to research, and are in limited quantities. This list would be a great place for people to say: layout a circuit (get the okay from Mark T.) and print up a batch available at cost. (Like GNU it is not for profit). I think Miller is the pro at building circuits without the boards. But I think that everything you need is there to bread board, so building the circuit should not be the issue, nor the lack of information, nor lack of a circuit board. What _specific_ information are you looking for? Thanks! Mark > > > > > They are useful prototyping tools for MicroCore projects. >-The few that Mark > has given to others to further his, and >our, research are very jealously, and > zealously guarded. > > > Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this > list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in > the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an > issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' > effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so > simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you > get the point. > > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? > > Cam. > -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.000D65BF; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:26:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA00397 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:16:01 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12485 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:54:39 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.234] (dialup15.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.234]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05377 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:07:44 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:58:02 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/02/97 06:58:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/02/97 07:26:25 PM-06/02/97 07:26:26 PM DeliveredDate: 06/02/97 07:26:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US [paranoia deletia...] [GNU deletia...] > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? THE GOVT >IS INVOLVED! Cam, i think that (for the most part) we _are_ sharing information. Look at Miller's site on building a nervous net based walker, and I have tried to collect as much information as I have for the BEAM FAQ (which is at http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html) - which has been updated. The more information that I collect the more I will put into the FAQ. Just like GNU software, It will be there over time. There is information that is _freely_ available on the web. As long as you are not trying to make money on the Tilden' patent you are safe from the dogs :) If you have questions please ask them. I have asked many questions and been helped many times over. there are only a few experts in this area and they are busy building. Cheers, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.001D8FEE; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:22:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00628 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:12:31 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA13435 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:54:37 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:51:27 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 2 Jun 97 21:52:21 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 2 Jun 97 21:52:11 +800 Received: from dial4.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 2 Jun 97 21:52:06 +800 X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:54:01 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Message-ID: <9005AC6764@email.scrnet.com> SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/02/97 09:54:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/02/97 10:22:58 PM-06/02/97 10:23:00 PM DeliveredDate: 06/02/97 10:23:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've found tons of info here on the list and on the web. What more can be done here? Send out people to build the bot for you? At 06:31 AM 6/3/97, you wrote: > > > >They are useful prototyping tools for MicroCore projects. >-The few that Mark >has given to others to further his, and >our, research are very jealously, and >zealously guarded. > > > Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this > list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in > the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an > issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' > effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so > simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you > get the point. > > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? > > Cam. > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.001D9063; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:22:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00630 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:12:36 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13387 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:45:21 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts27ip208.cadvision.com [207.228.69.208]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA150144 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:41:05 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970602225002.00753390@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:50:02 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Talk about Tiiiny motors! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Talk about Tiiiny motors! PostedDate: 06/02/97 09:50:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/02/97 10:22:58 PM-06/02/97 10:23:00 PM DeliveredDate: 06/02/97 10:23:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just had a visit from Devon Hyndman who showed me a flyer from a company called "RMB" that makes a line of motors called "Smoovy" (cool name, huh?) out of Switzerland. Would anybody want to take a look at _5mm_ and _3mm_ diameter gearmotors? 1:125 & 1:25 ratios, input speeds up to 80,000rpm, bidirectional, but (alas) brushless, meaning they need a controller of some sort. http://www.smoovy.com/products/gpa50001.htm Pretty cool, but big bucks, I imagine... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.002F16E6; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:20:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA00770 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:09:45 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA14492 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:37:01 -0500 Received: from scotty.bogon.com [207.6.172.36] by wu.bogon.com with esmtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wYo9I-0005WX-00; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:36:56 -0700 From: "Scott Martin" To: Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:40:50 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 12:40:50 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 01:20:09 AM-06/03/97 01:20:10 AM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 01:20:10 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >There is information that is _freely_ available on the web. As long as you >are not trying to make money on the Tilden' patent you are safe from the >dogs :) Woof , Woof ! ScottyDogma $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.005782EB; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:55:51 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com ([207.228.64.2]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA01292 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:45:34 -0700 Received: from ts68ip174.cadvision.com (ts68ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.75.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id JAA170540; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:48:01 -0600 Received: by ts68ip174.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC7003.2D1B2DE0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:47:40 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC7003.2D1B2DE0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Laurence Mayer'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Talk about Tiiiny motors! Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:47:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Talk about Tiiiny motors! PostedDate: 06/03/97 08:47:36 AM SendTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 08:55:59 AM-06/03/97 08:56:00 AM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 08:56:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: Are my Beam Messages going into the bit bucket? I sent an e-mail to the Beam list a month ago about these motors, and I was promptly ignored! Anyway, here are some useful links for info about these motors. No complaints to you, Dave. Glad you got to see a picture of them. laurence I am sorry I did not say that the info about these great motors was got from your email, if you want to grab people's attention tell them the motors are 3 volt, and can go up to 100,000 RPM's. When they put the 3mm motor in full production I'm going to order like 10 (it depends on if the motors cost 100 each) Any way, Dave has the spec's scanned so if people want the info maybe ask him to send you the files. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.0066809D; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02265 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:29:15 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17687 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:41:50 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup05.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.224]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA23784; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:54:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970603134056.0093d820@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:40:56 -0400 To: Richard Weait , beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? In-Reply-To: <199706010138.VAA10958@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 10:40:56 AM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 11:39:39 AM-06/03/97 11:39:40 AM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 11:39:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Richard (and all you other solar walker experts): Ok, i have a BiCore controlling a QuadCore (Microcore). That works great, until the sun goes away for an extended period of time. It just stops. The duty cycle of the BiCore is 5sec/5sec. Questions: (1) Ocassionally, in less light the Bicore just dies and I have to manually add a process. Is there any way to jump start a Bicore after it has stopped. Maybe my debugging LEDs are pulling to much power and thus killing the process. Do i need a starter? If so, i am all out of inverters (6 on a chip - 2 for the Bicore and 4 for the Quadcore)? (2) I am trying to get the duty cycle to 15sec/45sec (the golden Weait ratio :) or somewhere close to that ratio. By increasing the capacitors (c in the diagram below) value between Nv output and input to somewhere close to 1 muF. However, I have problems when one Capacitor in the Bicore is 10muF and the other is 1 muF. It cycles once and then just dies. Any ideas? Anyone care to offer an explanation? Brian's BiCore that occassionally likes to stop: [ascii circuit diagram, use proportional font to view] ---------------------------------- | u1 c1 u2 c2 | |---o---|>o---||---o---|>o---||--o- to input (1/4) microcore | | | | R R | | |--------------o-- grnd c1 is 10 muF c2 is 1 muF if c1 = c2 it is ok. :( Note: the solar cell hooks directly into a capacitor (0.469999F:) which powers the circuitry. Hope this makes sense, thanks, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo "madly scrapping the earth all around it" -SP, 2DP $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.00675804; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:48:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02338 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:38:23 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17636 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:34:14 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA08052 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03404; Tue, 3 Jun 97 11:33:55 MDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:36:31 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: No secrecy, just overwork. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: No secrecy, just overwork. PostedDate: 06/03/97 11:36:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 11:48:50 AM-06/03/97 11:48:51 AM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 11:48:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this > list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in > the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an > issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' > effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so > simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you > get the point. > > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? > > Cam. The basic answer is that the main BEAMers have just not been able to catch up to all the papers, articles and tech reports that should have written. The main problem is that even though it's the simplist robotic methodology I know, this stuff can get really complex. For example, I try to test my new stuff on the main guys but if they don't get it (which is often), I realize a rewrite is necessary. So sorry for the delay, but please remember Biomech Tech is a science in progress, not a ready-made hobby. If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.0079E11E; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:11:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03114 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:00:15 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101f.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19103 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:09:38 -0500 Received: from dcp1-34.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-24.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.24]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29092 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970603161136.43ff6d50@mailhost.nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@mailhost.nc5.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 16:11:36 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 09:11:36 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 03:11:25 PM-06/03/97 03:11:26 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 03:11:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US This for the newcomers who might become frustrated by the lack of exact information... cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk wrote: > Why all the paranoia? I sensed it at first but it's not paranoia, it's for one's own good. Microcore is an experimental robotic art form and people spend a great amount of time figuring out the tricks. Handing out exact blueprints does not result in new discoveries, just makes it easier to copy one particular design. > I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this > list was to 'further the cause'. It does! I love this list! (even if I don't say much I read everything) The sense of paranoia stopped when this list became available, and if you can't figure it out from Andrew Miller's site, well... wait until I get some more stuff up, I finally got a walker walking which I will document as soon as I find time (Yippie! it walks!). If all of the questions were pre-answered I might have not come up with the design I ended up with. I had to wing it, and probably learned more than if all my problems were pre-solved for me. > If patent infringement is an > issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' > effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so > simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you > get the point. Only if you want something that has no feel or adaptation. A simple rhythm generator will not do unless it can sense the current drive to the motor to adapt its timing. A *lot* of circuitry would be needed to do what a simple microcore does. And choosing different component values would not invalidate the patent... all that does is adjust the walking speed to match the motors and physical size (have to do that). > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? Because before you can run you must walk. Once you demonstrate that you can walk it's amazing how much information becomes available. Most was there all along, just had to be absorbed. And people are more forthcoming with help when you show them initiative. Solder! - Terry Newton $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.00821124; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:40:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA03593 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:30:02 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19715 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:46 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA17629 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts21-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts21-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.129]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02187 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706032245.SAA02187@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 18:37:27 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 03:37:27 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 04:40:44 PM-06/03/97 04:40:44 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 04:40:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:11 PM 6/3/97, Terry Newton wrote: >This for the newcomers who might become frustrated by the lack >of exact information... [snip] >It does! I love this list! (even if I don't say much I read everything) >The sense of paranoia stopped when this list became available, and if >you can't figure it out from Andrew Miller's site, well... wait until >I get some more stuff up, I finally got a walker walking which I will >document as soon as I find time (Yippie! it walks!). If all of the >questions were pre-answered I might have not come up with the design >I ended up with. I had to wing it, and probably learned more than if >all my problems were pre-solved for me. [snip] >- Terry Newton > I wish I could have seen the look on your face when it took it's first steps! There is little to match that feeling. Congratulations. Thanks, also, for the nice words about the list. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AB.008314DB; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:51:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA03639 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:41:09 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19716 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:46 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA17625 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts21-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts21-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.129]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02080 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706032245.SAA02080@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 18:37:23 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 03:37:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 04:51:57 PM-06/03/97 04:51:58 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 04:51:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:40 PM 6/3/97 -0400, "Brian O. Bush" wrote: . . . a bunch of stuff to keep me _typing_ when I should be _soldering_!!!! > >(1) Ocassionally, in less light the Bicore just dies and I have to manually >add a process. Is there any way to jump start a Bicore after it has >stopped. Maybe my debugging LEDs are pulling to much power and thus killing >the process. Do i need a starter? If so, i am all out of inverters (6 on a >chip - 2 for the Bicore and 4 for the Quadcore)? I have not run into this problem. You are in "Solar Land" now so make sure that: - the chip is happy at the voltage you get, under load. (Psst, use an 'HC, unless you have some of the 3.3V parts.) - Forget the debugging LED's. Multimeters only. Sorry. >(2) I am trying to get the duty cycle to 15sec/45sec (the golden Weait >ratio :) . . . and so it was decreed . . . >or somewhere close to that ratio. By increasing the capacitors (c >in the diagram below) value between Nv output and input to somewhere close >to 1 muF. However, I have problems when one Capacitor in the Bicore is >10muF and the other is 1 muF. It cycles once and then just dies. Any ideas? >Anyone care to offer an explanation? Ooops, "Bad Richard!" looks like I've mislead you. In looking- over "Thirsty" again, 'taint a Bicore at all. . . just a low- power oscillator and an inverter. See below. [ascii-art danger zone] ----/\/\/--|<|-| | | o---/\/\/--|>|-o | | o---|>o--------o----|>o---o---|<|---o | | | | = ---------------------o | V Choose the resistor values to get your charge time and discharge time. The two upper diodes keep the resistors from interfering with each other. One output goes to the MicroCore input to be held on (low) the other to the driver chip to hold it inactive (high) at the same time. Okay, that's way too close to just publishing the whole design. >Hope this makes sense, >thanks, Brian > >--- >brian o bush, gearhead >http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo >"madly scrapping the earth all around it" -SP, 2DP > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.000368ED; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:37:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03731 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:26:44 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20127 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:39:51 -0500 Received: from ts68ip174.cadvision.com (ts27ip221.cadvision.com [207.228.69.221]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA167922; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:35:29 -0600 Received: by ts68ip174.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC7044.80AADE60@ts68ip174.cadvision.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:35:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC7044.80AADE60@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:35:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 04:35:08 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 05:37:22 PM-06/03/97 05:37:23 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 05:37:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US They are useful prototyping tools for MicroCore projects. >-The few that Mark has given to others to further his, and >our, research are very jealously, and zealously guarded. Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' effect with other devices. Yes, but there is a lot of space and complexity to those other devices . Now that was cold, You are subscribed to this list, you see hundreds of people asking questions and people taking their time to answer them, and you call that not gnu spirit? The patent specifies component values, so simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you get the point. It's not the values of the components that are patented , it's the layout, it's short, it's simple, it's sweet. Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? Cam. First off I say there isn't much secrecy, it's not like people have to join a special cult that worships the Bicore and Microcore. The patent says people cannot use the for sales with out consent from Mark Tilden. If you read the patent , then you would know a lot more about them. The reason why most people don't have enough time to type them all up is because, they are a lot of busy people. For example, Mark Dalton: he spends almost all of his money on other people, to make free work shops. There are a lot of other people who also do this, too many to list... The reason why these people are robotics experts is because they love robotics and when ever they have time , build robots. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.000B2965; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:01:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05398 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:51:34 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20826 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:14:59 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id IAA24928; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:52:42 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA865438379 Wed, 04 Jun 97 08:32:59 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 97 08:32:59 Message-Id: <9705048654.AA865438379@vtech.com.hk> To: "Mark W. Dalton" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 01:32:59 AM SendTo: mwd@acl.lanl.gov CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 07:02:05 PM-06/03/97 07:02:06 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 07:02:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>What _specific_ information are you looking for? Howabout a Gerber and NC drill (or the .JOB if you are using PADS) of the hextile, this "useful prototyping tool for MicroCore projects" I am still wondering why they are so "very jealously, and zealously guarded." My comment about the component values and the 555's is that the patent itself is not really an issue here. If I were to design a commercial system using a microcore-like low level controller, there are many ways other than the Tilden patented proccess that use the same back emf feedback loop to achieve the same control effect. If these useful tools are available, why not share them with the rest of us? Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0010DE6E; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:04:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07676 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:53:19 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21002 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:42:12 -0500 Received: from ts68ip174.cadvision.com (ts27ip221.cadvision.com [207.228.69.221]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id TAA153656; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:37:53 -0600 Received: by ts68ip174.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC7055.9A3F44E0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:37:42 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC7055.9A3F44E0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: RE: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:37:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: RE: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 06:37:32 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 08:04:22 PM-06/03/97 08:04:23 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 08:04:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US -----Original Message----- From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk [SMTP:cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 1997 2:33 AM To: Mark W. Dalton Cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? >>What _specific_ information are you looking for? Howabout a Gerber and NC drill (or the .JOB if you are using PADS) of the hextile, this "useful prototyping tool for MicroCore projects" I am still wondering why they are so "very jealously, and zealously guarded." My comment about the component values and the 555's is that the patent itself is not really an issue here. If I were to design a commercial system using a microcore-like low level controller, there are many ways other than the Tilden patented proccess that use the same back emf feedback loop to achieve the same control effect. If these useful tools are available, why not share them with the rest of us? Then Mark tilden has the right to sue you for patent infringement, if there are those other designs then why don't you share them with us? Yes there are other designs, but listen , you cannot get the same effect of a microcore unless you use microcore. Why does it seam like you're a person who's not giving respect to people who are using their time to tell you how things work. Sarcasm and aggression doesn't make a person like to talk to you, and by the way if you are interested in making some commercial rob ot that uses a run off of the microcore, then don't talk to us. Quit talking about them being gaurded It isn't, why should people teach you things for FREE , it's not a right it's a privilege, why don't you learn it your self. It's not their job to make sure you know all about these so called "secrets", people get collage degree's to know this, why don't you just get a degree. Cam please remember ,every electronic engineer isn't trying to cover up anything, how can you uncover something that is not covered up. Regards Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.00174DE4; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:14:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA07769 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:04:04 -0700 Received: from nj5.injersey.com (nj5.injersey.com [206.139.48.252]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21465 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:49:28 -0500 Received: from default (ppp022-tmrv.injersey.com [206.139.59.22]) by nj5.injersey.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA08640 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3394C60F.218307A8@injersey.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:34:07 -0400 From: Video Guy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: It Walks!! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BC7044.80AADE60@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 SMTPOriginator: biltclif@injersey.com From: biltclif@injersey.com Subject: It Walks!! PostedDate: 06/03/97 06:34:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 09:14:36 PM-06/03/97 09:14:38 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 09:14:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just a quick note, I'll post the details this weekend. My first try at a walker. It walked the first time out. I'm using two lobotomize R/C servos and a four neuron microcore. Sure looks eerie when it moves. I think I scared my wife. Dave. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.001D4531; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:19:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07841 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:09:23 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22070 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:31:40 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts48ip203.cadvision.com [207.228.72.203]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA186460; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:27:17 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970603223428.0076a90c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 22:34:28 -0600 To: Video Guy , "'beam@webconn.com'" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: It Walks!! In-Reply-To: <3394C60F.218307A8@injersey.com> References: <01BC7044.80AADE60@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: It Walks!! PostedDate: 06/03/97 09:34:28 PM SendTo: biltclif@injersey.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 10:19:45 PM-06/03/97 10:19:46 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 10:19:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:34 PM 6/3/97 -0400, Video Guy wrote: >My first try at a walker. It walked the first time out. I'm using two >lobotomize R/C servos and a four neuron microcore. Sure looks eerie when >it moves. I think I scared my wife. Heh! I like it... My wife shrugs and then tells me to clean up the kitchen... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.001FD935; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:47:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07858 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:37:33 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22068 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:31:40 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts48ip203.cadvision.com [207.228.72.203]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id WAA197686; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:27:16 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970603223228.0076abf0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 22:32:28 -0600 To: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <9705048654.AA865438379@vtech.com.hk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/03/97 09:32:28 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/03/97 10:47:53 PM-06/03/97 10:47:54 PM DeliveredDate: 06/03/97 10:47:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:32 AM 6/4/97, cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk wrote: >Howabout a Gerber and NC drill (or the .JOB if you are using PADS) of the >hextile, this "useful prototyping tool for MicroCore projects" Because Mark Tilden doesn't have a gerber file. He uses a _graphics_ package to do them (MSWord Mac), and simply hands it off to a very high quality PCB manufacturer that massages them into something useful. We're talking about gold-plated on black-substrate PCB for many hundreds of dollars per board. The place that his lab uses to make PCB's is juuuust fabulous (and fabulously expensive). That's also the reason why they're "very jealously, and zealously guarded." Personally, I don't see why you don't simply go forth and design up your own PCB - it's not a difficult circuit. Mark used the Hex because of aesthetic and mechanical function ideas he wanted to test, but there's no reason why they can't be round, square or triangular. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.003ECC4D; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:25:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA08123 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:15:19 -0700 From: douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us Received: from Nexus.mnic.net (Nexus.MNIC.NET [198.174.56.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24040 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:46:43 -0500 Received: from S17.IC.Mankato.MN.US (S1.IC.Mankato.MN.US [198.174.56.101]) by Nexus.mnic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA03311 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:46:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:46:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199706041046.FAA03311@Nexus.mnic.net> X-Sender: douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com Subject: No secrecy, just overwork. SMTPOriginator: douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us From: douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us Subject: No secrecy, just overwork. PostedDate: 06/04/97 03:46:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 04:25:58 AM-06/04/97 04:25:59 AM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 04:25:59 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Why all the paranoia? I thought the whole purpose of BEAM and this > list was to 'further the cause'. I guess I thought we were working in > the gnu spirit, but obviously not. If patent infringement is an > issue, there are many many ways to achive the same 'Nervous Net' > effect with other devices. The patent specifies component values, so > simply choosing different values, or using 555's or, or, or,... you > get the point. > > Why can't we share more information? Why all the secrecy? > > Cam. The basic answer is that the main BEAMers have just not been able to catch up to all the papers, articles and tech reports that should have written. The main problem is that even though it's the simplist robotic methodology I know, this stuff can get really complex. For example, I try to test my new stuff on the main guys but if they don't get it (which is often), I realize a rewrite is necessary. So sorry for the delay, but please remember Biomech Tech is a science in progress, not a ready-made hobby. If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.005576DE; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:33:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA08525 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:23:11 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25001 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:03:04 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20029 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny5-12.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.172) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019963; Wed Jun 4 09:02:28 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970604100714.3407070e@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Beam: Waist Motors SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Beam: Waist Motors PostedDate: 06/04/97 07:02:51 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 08:33:36 AM-06/04/97 08:33:37 AM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 08:33:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all, I've seen many references to waist motors on the list. Can someone explain where such a motor is placed on a beam walker, and what it does? I gather that it's function is to allow a two motor (plus the waist) walker to reverse(?) Mark $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.005BD96B; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:43:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA08828 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:32:55 -0700 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25846 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:37:12 -0500 Received: from default (slip129-37-151-132.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.151.132]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA60736 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:36:18 GMT Message-ID: <33958C41.25C5@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:39:45 -0400 From: Andrew Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Web sites... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: andr106@ibm.net From: andr106@ibm.net Subject: Web sites... PostedDate: 06/04/97 08:39:45 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 09:43:22 AM-06/04/97 09:43:22 AM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 09:43:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey all... I'm Finnally getting around to Updating my Web site a bit... Since the inception of this list Many of you have developed BEAM Related sites of your own and I like to add them to a link page.. so mail me your URL's and any graphic you wish to use as a button.. I'll weed trough em and see if i can't get a proper catalouge of these sites up on my page within the next week or so.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.005F8D0A; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:23:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA09061 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:13:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26122 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:08:04 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts17ip125.cadvision.com [207.228.68.125]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA202492; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:03:10 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970604101046.00748ccc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:10:46 -0600 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Beam: Waist Motors In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970604100714.3407070e@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Beam: Waist Motors PostedDate: 06/04/97 09:10:46 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 10:23:50 AM-06/04/97 10:23:51 AM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 10:23:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:02 AM 6/4/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >I've seen many references to waist motors on the list. Can someone explain >where such a motor is placed on a beam walker, and what it does? I gather >that it's function is to allow a two motor (plus the waist) walker to reverse(?) Well, it's positioned ....where the waist would be... Sorry, but that's the truth! They're really increase the mobility and capability of the walker by providing an extra degree of lift (if in the vertical plane) or turning ability (in the horizontal plane). Mike T.'s new "Cockroach" that we just put onto the website (the quick-legged one with sound file) has the waist motor in a horizontal plane, and makes it turn really effectively. Mind you, he's only got about 15 degrees total travel, but it doesn't take much... 5 motor walkers (1 per leg + waist) have really cool additional modes of movement because of the waist. Much better turning radius and step height. And to get a 2 motor walker to run in reverse, all you have to do is phase one of the motors 180 deg to what it was (ie: swap the motor connections). Dat's it! Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0065AC64; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:30:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09469 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:20:03 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26697 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:30:58 -0500 Received: from ts68ip174.cadvision.com (ts27ip221.cadvision.com [207.228.69.221]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA142422; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:26:40 -0600 Received: by ts68ip174.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC70DA.308909C0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com>; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:26:47 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC70DA.308909C0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Scott Martin'" Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:26:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 10:26:41 AM SendTo: scotty@bogon.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 11:30:43 AM-06/04/97 11:30:45 AM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 11:30:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Devin, if Cam hasn't got it yet don't waste your time trying to straighten him out on the facts. It's just takes away from time better spent building bots. A valiant effort though, Sir Hyndman defender of the Microcore. ;) ScottyDogma Well I didn't do as good of a job as a could have, I was being an ass. I was just that way because he said something about commercial use, the only people I'm ok with using it are people who don't do it for the money. Like Dave, he still needs to make the final payment on his Porsche and pay the mortgage off his 3rd beachside mansion. He does it because he wants people who want to work with robotics be able to get the resources for it, with out having to have a collage degree. Most importantly he loves doing it...and where would we be without Lord Hockey rink, err Lord Hrynkiw Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0068650F; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:00:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09662 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:49:33 -0700 Received: from otter.mbay.net (otter.mbay.net [206.40.79.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26706 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:31:55 -0500 Received: from [206.40.79.154] (c4.dip.mbay.net [206.55.224.68]) by otter.mbay.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA15149 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:31:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:31:41 -0700 X-Sender: ss105@mail.mbay.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Anna Fitch SMTPOriginator: annafitch@seastudios.com From: annafitch@seastudios.com PostedDate: 06/04/97 10:31:41 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 12:00:19 PM-06/04/97 12:00:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 12:00:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US unsubscribe Anna Fitch Sea Studios 810 Cannery Row Monterey, CA 93940 Tel: 408 649-5152 ext.105 Fax: 408 649-1380 email: annafitch@seastudios.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0073837E; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:01:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA10030 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:51:14 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28069 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:53:27 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28139 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:53:13 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA00507; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA20111; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:47:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970603223228.0076abf0@cadvision.com> References: <9705048654.AA865438379@vtech.com.hk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:48:02 -0600 To: Dave Hrynkiw From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 12:48:02 PM SendTo: dave@solarbotics.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 02:01:46 PM-06/04/97 02:01:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 02:01:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dave sez: >Mark used the Hex because of >aesthetic and mechanical function ideas he wanted to test, but there's no >reason why they can't be round, square or triangular. Um, sort of. There is the "Cinderella factor" and the possibility of using hex boards in wave processors, if I'm not mistaken. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.00754982; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:21:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10161 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:10:40 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28085 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:54:55 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28146 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:54:35 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA02308; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA20934; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:54:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706032245.SAA02080@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:54:26 -0600 To: Richard Weait From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 12:54:26 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 02:21:09 PM-06/04/97 02:21:10 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 02:21:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >At 01:40 PM 6/3/97 -0400, "Brian O. Bush" wrote: >>(1) Ocassionally, in less light the Bicore just dies and I have to manually >>add a process. Is there any way to jump start a Bicore after it has >>stopped. Maybe my debugging LEDs are pulling to much power and thus killing >>the process. That's actually quite possible. Mark uses, for example, ultra-low current high-brightness LEDs from Hewlett Packard (when he's got 'em available, anyhow.) Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.007828E7; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:52:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10362 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:42:02 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28143 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:58:04 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28166 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:58:01 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA03228 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA21260 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:57:27 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: No secrecy, just overwork. SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: No secrecy, just overwork. PostedDate: 06/04/97 12:57:27 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 02:52:37 PM-06/04/97 02:52:38 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 02:52:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:36 AM -0700 6/3/97, Mark W. Tilden wrote: >all the papers, articles and tech reports that should have written. > >markt. Snif! Sob! Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth! Can't we at least have a new installment of the most current version of the Lexicon??? Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0078C198; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:58:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10391 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:48:25 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27968 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:45:13 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA29375; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id NAA19737; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:44:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9705048654.AA865438379@vtech.com.hk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:44:31 -0600 To: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 12:44:31 PM SendTo: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 02:59:05 PM-06/04/97 02:59:06 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 02:59:06 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >I am still wondering why they are so "very jealously, and zealously >guarded." Merely because relatively few were manufactured, and those at personal expense. There is almost no chance that they'd be manufactured again. At this time, there are very few of the boards left (you cut out the hextiles from the board with scissors, btw.) Mark told me once what a single sheet of hextiles cost to make and I was somewhat appalled. For most people, getting the perfboard version of the wireless breadboard (Radio Shack has a version, for example) would be substantially more cost effective. I would like to point out that the hextiles themselves are not patented per se, nor are they actually covered by Mark's patent -- they aren't "devices" nor an "embodiment of an idea". They are, however, copyrighted which is really quite effective protection. >My comment about the component values and the 555's is that the patent >itself is not really an issue here. If I were to design a commercial system >using a microcore-like low level controller, there are many ways other than >the Tilden patented proccess that use the same back emf feedback loop to >achieve the same control effect. Mebbe so, Cam, but there are a couple of issues involved. The first is parsimony -- i.e. BEAM trying to be reductionist in the extreme. 555's could be set up as monostable multivibrators, but your parts count would be several times what it is using the '14 style Schmitt inverters. This is one of the most basic points that Mark made in some of his early papers -- that a linear increase in capability usually requires a power-law increase in circuit complexity. The really neat thing about nervous nets is that the circuit complexity increases in a much more linear fashion with capability produced (or possibly even only increases in a logarithmic sense.) The second point is somewhat more vague. As of yet, no one has been able to simulate (with PSpice or the like) how the most usual kind of nervous net neuron loop works with any fidelity to the "real thing." Likewise, implementing such a thing with 555s will almost undoubtedly produce effects that are different from the '14 type neurons. The third point is that although one could emulate a _single_ nervous net neuron, say with a 555 (actually a '121 might be better,) without infringing enough on Mr. Tilden's patent so that some lawyer would come to get you, a single neuron isn't hugely useful. Also, I'm rather dubious whether or not Mark's patent even covers the Hv- style solar engine neuron (go ahead and argue with me if you wish -- have you really carefully studied the claims and diagrams in the patent? I have.) The real point is, again, what are you going to do with single neurons? As soon as you build anything useful, you'd find yourself hitting square onto the patent (and may the Lord have mercy on your soul.) In other words, the tools that might be available to you aren't going to do you much good in a commercial sense if the only thing you can usefully craft infringes on someone's patent, eh? Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.00809DB1; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:24:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA10816 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:14:30 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA29090 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:49:50 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup06.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.225]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06659 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:03:09 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970604174900.0092d980@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 17:49:00 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 02:49:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 04:24:59 PM-06/04/97 04:25:00 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 04:25:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > >>I am still wondering why they are so "very jealously, and zealously >>guarded." > >Merely because relatively few were manufactured, and those at personal >expense. There is almost no chance that they'd be manufactured again. Ok. I will say it. Anyone interested in designing a hextile like board? I would but i don't have a PCB layout program. I am sure there is enough interest-maybe even with Mark Tilden's permission they could be sold through Solarbotics (slightly above manufacturing costs). Any thoughts? I believe it would be great to experiment with some advanced Nv tech designs. My walker's microcore is now solarized-and working just fine (thank you all). now just to finish it up the hard part up, the legs/motor connection. Brian --- Brian O. Bush Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AC.0080AFE8; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:25:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA10824 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:15:17 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29244 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:11:16 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup06.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.225]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07197 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:24:40 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970604181030.00931d30@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:10:30 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Abstract: Automatic UXO Detection using... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Abstract: Automatic UXO Detection using... PostedDate: 06/04/97 03:10:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 04:25:41 PM-06/04/97 04:25:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 04:25:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The abstract of AUTOMATIC UXO DETECTION USING BIOMORPHIC ROBOTS by Mark Tilden is at: http://www.atc.army.mil/~tecom/tts/proceed/biomorph.html and a FTP link to the full paper, but access is denied to common folk I think. That's TECOM for ya. cheers, Brian --- Brian O. Bush Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.000243FF; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:24:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA11032 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:14:20 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29559 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:51:34 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:48:29 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 4 Jun 97 15:49:24 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 4 Jun 97 15:49:14 +800 Received: from alan-ws.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 4 Jun 97 15:49:12 +800 X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:54:48 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Message-ID: SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: Re: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 03:54:48 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 05:24:53 PM-06/04/97 05:24:53 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 05:24:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US All this thread over Cam's mention of the 555 leads me to ask a question that no one else has asked; Does Cam even know what a 555 is or is it the one part number that is impossible to get wronge? Alan Serl - Owner Serl Computer Research aserl@scrnet.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.0008C3C5; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:35:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11174 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:25:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30136 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:12:05 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts27ip220.cadvision.com [207.228.69.220]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA29390; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:07:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970604181639.00750770@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:16:39 -0600 To: Hyndman , "'Scott Martin'" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Cc: "'beam@webconn.com'" In-Reply-To: <01BC70DA.308909C0@ts68ip174.cadvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/04/97 05:16:39 PM SendTo: hyndmanm@cadvision.com,scotty@bogon.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 06:35:48 PM-06/04/97 06:35:48 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 06:35:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:26 AM 6/4/97 -0600, Hyndman wrote: >...and where would we be without Lord Hockey rink, err Lord Hrynkiw Bow when you say that, peasant... ;-> -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.000CDA39; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:20:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA11219 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:09:56 -0700 Received: from cphub.mail.saic.com (cphub.mail.saic.com [139.121.95.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA30612 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:25:01 -0500 Received: from cpqm03.mail.saic.com by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Wed, 4 Jun 97 18:24:37 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 4 Jun 1997 20:21:28 -0800 From: "Bill Pierce" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO To: "beam mailing list" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 SMTPOriginator: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com From: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/04/97 09:21:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 07:20:32 PM-06/04/97 07:20:32 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 07:20:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US To get the paper: FTP to 130.114.34.12. Enter "g" (without the quotes) for the username. Hit "Enter" for the Password. Change to the tts sub-directory by entering "cd tts". Change to the directory where you want the file to be located on your machine using the "lcd" command if you need to. E.g. "lcd /beam/papers" Note: use forward slashes "/" even on a PC compatible. You can get a directory listing using the "dir" command. There may be more files than you can display on your screen. You can use wild cards to list selective files, e.g. "dir b*" Change to binary mode by entering "bin". Then "get biomorp1.exe" biomorp1.exe is 1,635,094 bytes long and is suppose to be a PKZIP self-extracting compressed file, however I got an illegal instruction trap when I tried to run-extract it on my Win95 Pentium. Your mileage may vary. ----Brian O. Bush said> > >The abstract of >AUTOMATIC UXO DETECTION USING BIOMORPHIC ROBOTS >by Mark Tilden is at: > >http://www.atc.army.mil/~tecom/tts/proceed/biomorph.html > >and a FTP link to the full paper, but access is denied to common folk >I think. That's TECOM for ya. > >cheers, Brian $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.0016E74C; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:10:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA11315 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:59:37 -0700 Received: from cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca (cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca [142.110.131.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA31520 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:25:13 -0500 Received: from DN-RELAY by cgate.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #20584) id <01IJOTJI08KG8WW3SW@cgate.sait.ab.ca> for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:25:14 MST Received: from el.sait.ab.ca (silica.el.sait.ab.ca) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #15163) with SMTP id <01IJOTK76MV88WW616@acdm.sait.ab.ca>; Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by el.sait.ab.ca (SMI-8.6/EL-NNL-SAIT-SMI-SVR4) id VAA10582; Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:24:38 -0600 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:24:38 -0600 (MDT) From: "Craig Maynard (EE)" Subject: Re: Web sites... In-reply-to: <33958C41.25C5@ibm.net> To: Andrew Miller Cc: beam@webconn.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca From: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca Subject: Re: Web sites... PostedDate: 06/04/97 08:24:38 PM SendTo: andr106@ibm.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 09:10:14 PM-06/04/97 09:10:15 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 09:10:15 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Wonderful, Andrew... Could you find room for a link to my site? I'm anxious to promote studies of robotic food chains for BEAM-like robots www.nucleus.com/~cybug Craig Maynard On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Andrew Miller wrote: > Hey all... > I'm Finnally getting around to Updating my Web site a bit... > > Since the inception of this list Many of you have developed BEAM Related > sites of your own and I like to add them to a link page.. > > so mail me your URL's and any graphic you wish to use as a button.. > > I'll weed trough em and see if i can't get a proper catalouge of these > sites up on my page within the next week or so.... > > all4nw > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.001AF1E1; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:54:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA11350 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:43:50 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32012 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:28:26 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA05673 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08586; Wed, 4 Jun 97 22:28:10 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33829097.3DA6@execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:30:47 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. PostedDate: 06/04/97 10:30:47 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/04/97 09:54:28 PM-06/04/97 09:54:28 PM DeliveredDate: 06/04/97 09:54:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Michael A. Tyborski says: >I see that BEAM robotics has these restrictions: > >1. BEAM is trade marked >2. BEAM is a division of Square Deal Productions >3. The Microcore is patented > >Are other BEAM groups allowed to form around the country--or the world? Sure, so long as due license and credit is attached, and cleared ahead of time if you please. The patent is pending international in all western countries, with others pending, and defensibly covers any style of looped differentiators used as a general controller. BEAM itself is similarly distributed pending a potential re-organization. >Basically, how can all of us help expand the BEAM phenomena without >infringment? Easy. Build bots and... 1/ develop a Nv product line or rentable device and pay 7% license on any commercial net proceeds through perpetuity until an annual net of $100,000, after which it becomes 10%. 2/ whip butt at certain competitions, and smile inwardly at people who ask "Where's the computer?". 3/ advance science, make discoveries, and post experiences to the group/website/magazine of your choice. 4/ Satisfy personal interest. Essentially, the idea is to promote the minimal-bot idea on it's own merits, but please, if you use something that I've invented (Nv net permutations, the 6 tran H bridge, the Solarengine, ect.) do it in a way so that doesn't cause me to grind my teeth. For example, Mr. Iovine's recent article. That he promoted the BEAM concepts didn't much bother me (though I wish he'd checked his facts and spelling), that he used the BEAM name without permission to sell his own solarengine is a bit more of a problem (but as it doesn't work well I saw no reason to follow up), that he obtained the pictures used in his article under false pretenses, now that is just not polite, and following discussion with my lawyers, the tactical nuke strike will occur after the environmental impact statement clears. Joking, but it does give an example of the sort of behavior that regretably forces action. The patent protects my ideas from ulterior commercial gain by others, but things built for personal, non-profit experimentation I'm not going to leap on. For example, the ideas flashing about this group are great, and I heartly promote any variations or innovations, but if a Nv circuit works well for you, use the damn thing and call me if/when Hasbro calls you. If you get $200 for a lecture or an article or a prize at a competition, great. Quaif some beer for us and let us know. But if someone says 'contract', please remember lines are open. Biomech Tech's a great field and I'd like to keep it as accessible as possible as long as possible, but please don't force us to use legal. The bottom line is, 'bot nice, and we'll likewise. Thanks. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.00474919; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:58:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA11663 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:48:18 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA01157 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:56:20 -0500 Received: from odi (asd19-25.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.47.90]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id MAA16159 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:56:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:58:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam mailing list Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 03:58:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 05:58:46 AM-06/05/97 05:58:47 AM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 05:58:47 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On 4 Jun 1997, Bill Pierce wrote: > To get the paper: FTP to 130.114.34.12. Enter "g" (without the quotes) > for the username. Hit "Enter" for the Password. Change to the tts > sub-directory by entering "cd tts". ------8<------- I got the file as per your recipe (in binary mode). However, according to pkzipfix it's corrupt. There is supposed to be a 1826816 byte biomorph.doc inside, but except a crc-error and an empty file, nothing comes out. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.00608F1B; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:34:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12637 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:24:15 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03016 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:11:18 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA24653 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny1-12.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.44) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024345; Thu Jun 5 11:10:54 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970605121610.2537b802@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 09:11:08 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 10:34:51 AM-06/05/97 10:34:51 AM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 10:34:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Perhaps it needs to be in a unix type environment to unzip properly? Mark Lerman At 12:58 PM 6/5/97 +0200, you wrote: >On 4 Jun 1997, Bill Pierce wrote: > >> To get the paper: FTP to 130.114.34.12. Enter "g" (without the quotes) >> for the username. Hit "Enter" for the Password. Change to the tts >> sub-directory by entering "cd tts". > >------8<------- > >I got the file as per your recipe (in binary mode). However, >according to pkzipfix it's corrupt. There is supposed to be >a 1826816 byte biomorph.doc inside, but except a crc-error and >an empty file, nothing comes out. > >Best, > >Steve > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.00630AE7; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:01:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12754 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:51:24 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03059 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:16:50 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07339; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:16:44 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id KAA02267; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706051616.KAA02267@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO To: mlerman@ix.netcom.com (Mark Lerman) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970605121610.2537b802@popd.ix.netcom.com> from "Mark Lerman" at Jun 5, 97 11:11:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 09:16:43 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 11:01:53 AM-06/05/97 11:01:55 AM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 11:01:55 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > Perhaps it needs to be in a unix type environment to unzip properly? > No I have already tried this, but the file is corrupted. I will see if I can get some more papers, and get them on line and a more reliable format. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.00665846; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:37:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA13028 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:27:27 -0700 Received: from cphub.mail.saic.com (cphub.mail.saic.com [139.121.95.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03444 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:16:04 -0500 Received: from cpqm03.mail.saic.com by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Thu, 5 Jun 97 10:15:56 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Jun 1997 12:11:19 -0800 From: "Bill Pierce" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO To: "beam mailing list" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 SMTPOriginator: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com From: WILLIAM.H.PIERCE@cpmx.saic.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 01:11:19 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 11:37:57 AM-06/05/97 11:37:58 AM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 11:37:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yup. That's what I got too. Let's just hope that the media doesn't get wind of this. I can hear the promo now: Channel 1 special report: "Research paper is corrupt!" Mark Tilden, a robot researcher at Los Alamos, recently submitted a research paper to TECOM. Reviewers are have great problems with the paper however, one went so far as to say "[after years of research] nothing comes out." Complete report at eleven. 8^) Perhaps Mark T. can get them to rebuild the file. ------------------------------ Date: 6/5/97 4:14 AM To: Pierce, Bill From: Steven Bolt On 4 Jun 1997, Bill Pierce wrote: > To get the paper: FTP to 130.114.34.12. Enter "g" (without the quotes) > for the username. Hit "Enter" for the Password. Change to the tts > sub-directory by entering "cd tts". ------8<------- I got the file as per your recipe (in binary mode). However, according to pkzipfix it's corrupt. There is supposed to be a 1826816 byte biomorph.doc inside, but except a crc-error and an empty file, nothing comes out. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.006BEC51; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:38:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA13224 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:28:27 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03943 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:22:03 -0500 Received: from odi (asd17-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.47.2]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id UAB19772 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:21:55 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970605121610.2537b802@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 11:23:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 12:38:51 PM-06/05/97 12:38:52 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 12:38:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > Perhaps it needs to be in a unix type environment to unzip properly? Then it wouldn't be `biomorp1.exe', but biomorph_1.gz, .Z, .zoo or even .zip - anything but a selfextractor, which is tied to a specific type of processor. I'm writing this from a Linux-box; so, to humor you, I just `executed' the file: [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ chmod u+x biomorp1.exe [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ ls -l biomorp1.exe -rwxrw-r-- 1 sbolt sbolt 1635094 Jun 5 12:08 biomorp1.exe [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ ./biomorp1.exe bash: ./biomorp1.exe: cannot execute binary file I'm sure it's dos, and corrupt on the (Windows NT) ftp-server Best, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.006DF53D; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:01:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA13277 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:45:43 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04188 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:55:29 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32468 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:55:16 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA26549 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11179; Thu, 5 Jun 97 12:49:59 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.16.19970605121610.2537b802@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:52:36 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 12:52:36 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 01:01:08 PM-06/05/97 01:01:09 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 01:01:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Chill, chill. I've just sent an RTF of my latest minebot whitepaper to mark D. If he can read it, it'll be up on his site soonest including pictures. Follows is the text abstract (april, 1995). We finished the final report on the project several months ago, and if possible, we'll post it again through Mark D's site markt. --------------- White Paper: Yuma Proving Grounds Automatic UXO Detection using Biomorphic Robots. Mark W. Tilden, Los Alamos National Lab, MSD454 Los Alamos, NM 87545. 505/667-2902, Fax: 505/665-6251 Abstract: The current variety and dispersion of Unexploded Ordnance (UXO) is a daunting technological problem for current sensory and extraction techniques. The bottom line is that the only way to insure a live UXO has been found and removed is to step on it. As this is an upsetting proposition for biological organisms like animals, farmers, or Yuma field personnel, this paper details a non-biological approach to developing inexpensive, automatic machines that will find, tag, and may eventually remove UXO from a variety of terrains by several proposed methods. The Yuma proving grounds (Arizona) has been pelted with bombs, mines, missiles, and shells since the 1940s. The idea of automatic machines that can clean up after such testing is an old one but as yet unrealized because of the daunting cost, power and complexity requirements of capable robot mechanisms. It has been very difficult to give machines "skills" that can encompass the day-to-day problems of working in unstructured environments such as a field or forest. However a researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory has invented and developed a new variety of "living" robots that are solar powered, legged, autonomous, adaptive to massive damage, and very inexpensive. This technology, called Nervous Networks (Nv), allows for the creation of capable walking mechanisms (known as "Biomorphic Robots", or "Biomechs" for short) that rather than work from "task" principles use instead a "survival-based" design philosophy. This allows Nv based machines to continue doing work even after multiple limbs and sensors have been removed or damaged, and to dynamically negotiate complex terrains as an emergent property of their operation ("fighting to proceed" as it were). They are not programmed, and indeed, the twelve transistor Nv controller keeps their electronic cost well below that of most pocket radios. It is suspected that advanced forms of these machines in huge numbers may be an interesting, capable solution to the problem of general and specific UXO identification, tagging, and removal. "Walkman 1.0", the first experimental twelve transistor Nv design. The application concept is simple. These devices move towards whatever stimulus they are hard-wired to perceive. If this stimulus is UXO (as provided by any of a range of possible detectors), then these machines will fight to acquire to them despite obstacles and danger. They have no memory and as such will continue their task for as long as they have sufficient power, ability, and remaining legs. If they are solar powered, careful and methodical cleaning tasks can potentially go on for years (Some lab based solar prototypes have been in continuous operation for over five years now). If the devices are made from sufficiently cheap materials, they could be left in-field to provide cleanup services until they fail, at which time their proposed "biodegradable" bodies will decay with minimal environmental cost. A long term goal is to make these devices cheap and widespread enough so that they can continue to remediate UXO long after an area is officially "clear". Machines which will continue to do an unpleasant task in unpleasant areas to assure human operatives that remediation continues. The Yuma problem for such machines was looked at for several reasons. The problem is real, the need immediate, and the terrain so hostile that many other computer based approaches have generally failed. The Yuma terrain is excessively hot during the day (140 degrees F. nominal ground temperature, 165 degrees max.) and freezing at night, excessively alkaline soils and fine sands, over fourteen types of complex desert terrain including cliffs and rock mesas, high airborne humidity (80% nominal), dust-laden winds, harsh vegetation (Barrel cactus to Spineweed), and occupied by rattlesnakes, scorpions, wild horses, and fifty years worth of military scrap metal. Even careful mapping has not been able to keep adequate track of all UXO because of both the variability of terrain characteristics and the unpredictable behavior of UXO deployments. The result is a vast hostile terrain littered with shifting military metal, some of which can still explode. Yuma (AZ.)Terrain. All this and scattered UXO. On the other hand, Yuma does get over three-hundred days a year of unobscured sunlight, and less than two inches of rain, which means that for adequately designed solar-powered Biomechs, there's enough power to go around, and little rain to obscure sensors and rust robot structures. For the right kind of robo-organism, it could be ideal. The Yuma problem statement is map it, clean it up, thoroughly and cheaply, with as little human endangerment as possible. How fast is not so much an issue as some UXO has been sitting around for over forty years. The Yuma mission statement can be broken down into three parts by priority: 1 - Identification, monitoring, and tagging. 2 - Neutralization. 3 - Remediation. This breakdown also matches the development of UXO Biomech development with a 0-th statement; make something with sufficient ability just to survive the terrain. After that, "domesticate" the devices into performing the tasks above, the goal to produce an array of cheap, disposable robots that will systematically tag, stomp, or pound UXO areas blowing up all they encounter, or collect debris and small ordnance for remote disposal. As ordnance is designed to inflict damage to humans and vehicles, these robots will be designed to withstand (accidental) blasts with the greatest chance of continued survival. The goal is to make machines which are terrain capable, solar powered, easily repaired (or salvageable with interchangeable components), long lasting, and simple enough to use effectively in a variety of UXO clearance operations. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.0077DB91; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:49:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA13773 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:37:46 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05094 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:30:52 -0500 Received: from odi (asd09-13.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.45.14]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id WAA11257 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:30:43 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:32:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 01:32:36 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 02:49:19 PM-06/05/97 02:49:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 02:49:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Mark W. Tilden wrote: > White Paper: Yuma Proving Grounds Automatic UXO Detection using Biomorphic > Robots. A worthy cause! > The application concept is simple. These devices move towards whatever > stimulus they are hard-wired to perceive. If this stimulus is UXO (as > provided by any of a range of possible detectors), then these machines will > fight to acquire to them despite obstacles and danger. They have no memory > and as such will continue their task for as long as they have sufficient > power, ability, and remaining legs. Can't help wonder though - without memory, won't the environment force unwanted patterns of behaviour? Creating large area's where the little guys just never go? I imagine certain types of UXO are unlikely to attract them from a large distance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.0078710C; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:55:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA13796 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:44:40 -0700 Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05286 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:41:24 -0500 Received: from default (slip129-37-153-186.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.153.186]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26014 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:41:10 GMT Message-ID: <3397252E.706F@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:44:30 -0400 From: Andrew Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Miller's web site.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: andr106@ibm.net From: andr106@ibm.net Subject: Miller's web site.. PostedDate: 06/05/97 01:44:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 02:55:37 PM-06/05/97 02:55:37 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 02:55:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US After it looked like I might have to pull my site due to $$ reasons I'm back and I'm updating... slow but sure.. http://www.golden.net/~amiller hope you like the new look..(no puky yellow) all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.007A8F74; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:18:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA13908 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:08:12 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05540 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:08:59 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA21794 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:08:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:08:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny3-03.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.99) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma021780; Thu Jun 5 16:08:07 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970605171328.1a1f1496@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: direct microcore->motor SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: direct microcore->motor PostedDate: 06/05/97 02:08:31 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 03:18:52 PM-06/05/97 03:21:42 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 03:21:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, Does anyone have any experience connecting a microcore directly to the motors? I have some lovely little gearmotors motors that draw 10-15 ma at 5 volts that I can easily drive using a 74hc04 inverter, and I would like to configure the inverter as a microcore. Any suggestions?? Do the 'standard values' have to be modified? I don't mind experimenting, but I'm curious if anyone has done this. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AD.007BA4EC; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:30:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA13977 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:19:55 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05608 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:16:40 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA22988 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny3-03.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.99) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022961; Thu Jun 5 16:16:12 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970605172134.2e6fc968@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 02:16:20 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 03:30:44 PM-06/05/97 03:30:45 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 03:30:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US You didn't have to humor me - I'm ignorant and I know it :-) Mark Lerman At 08:23 PM 6/5/97 +0200, you wrote: >On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > >> Perhaps it needs to be in a unix type environment to unzip properly? > >Then it wouldn't be `biomorp1.exe', but biomorph_1.gz, .Z, .zoo >or even .zip - anything but a selfextractor, which is tied to >a specific type of processor. > >I'm writing this from a Linux-box; so, to humor you, I just >`executed' the file: > > [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ chmod u+x biomorp1.exe > [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ ls -l biomorp1.exe > -rwxrw-r-- 1 sbolt sbolt 1635094 Jun 5 12:08 biomorp1.exe > [sbolt@odi sbolt]$ ./biomorp1.exe > bash: ./biomorp1.exe: cannot execute binary file > >I'm sure it's dos, and corrupt on the (Windows NT) ftp-server > >Best, > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00005C40; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:03:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14402 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:52:30 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06321 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:38:12 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA19356 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny4-15.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.143) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019336; Thu Jun 5 17:37:35 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970605184259.484ff0fa@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? PostedDate: 06/05/97 03:37:59 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 05:04:01 PM-06/05/97 05:04:02 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 05:04:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello again :-) I seem to be full of 'dumb questions' today. I've been playing with a microcore using the 04 hex inverter. Most people suggest the schmidt trigger 14 hex inverter. Why?? Mark (a very little mark) Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00011CEB; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:12:09 -0700 Received: from mail2.noc.netcom.net (mail2.noc.netcom.net [199.183.9.3]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA14440 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:01:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by mail2.noc.netcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26331 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06634 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:18:12 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA18338 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11923; Thu, 5 Jun 97 17:17:55 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3396B153.DBD@execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:20:32 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: BEAM licensing SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM licensing PostedDate: 06/05/97 05:20:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 05:12:11 PM-06/05/97 05:12:12 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 05:12:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Thanks for letting everyone know about the licensing agreements. >Overall, I really believe that they subconsciously keep some people away >from BEAM. You know that Not-Invented-Here monster and such :-) Does the >licensing requirement hinder student branches from starting in various >schools? So long as they don't start selling kits outside their school, of course not. I know the licensing is a turn-off for some, but I swear I'll drop it the moment I have enough money to hire Bill Gates as my pool boy. Honest. Actually, I don't think it is a problem. Most of the enthusiasts I've met are so keen on making their own discoveries that there's little overlap. However, when one wires up a Nv circuit the first time and sees how useful it is, it acts as a catalyst for experimenters who would otherwise still be trying to port windows to a basic stamp. that's how it worked for me, at least. My point is, there is so much to *do* in robotics I can't believe that people fear nervous nets are the last word. It's just the first note in an obscenely vast field. Once the people on this group have pushed out their first legged walker, they'll realize "oh, that was easy. What can I build now?" and the answer will be as close as the next discovery documentary or sci-fi movie. My own variations range from a 16th horsepower waterpistol to self-assembling floortiles. Why, because Nv nets mean I can, but most of the secrets are in the bodys, not the minds of these things, and anything that helps speed the evolution of the roboticists is key in my opinion. I mean, MIT's Attilla took 6 man-years of programming to get operational. You got time like that? Not me, and certainly not my sponsors. >Please mention your H-bridge and solar engine patent no. info, or include >the patents, on your web site. Alas, I have no control over my website, but if/when I get some time, I'll kindly ask Mark D. to make my published papers, circuits, etc., available on his site. Currently I'm booked through july but I'll try to sneak some time in. Cheers. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000A2C6C; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:51:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14726 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:40:45 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07299 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:43:30 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00797 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:43:16 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA05930; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id SAA12628; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:38:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970605184259.484ff0fa@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:38:12 -0600 To: Mark Lerman From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? PostedDate: 06/05/97 05:38:12 PM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 06:51:11 PM-06/05/97 06:51:12 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 06:51:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 5:37 PM -0500 6/5/97, Mark Lerman wrote: >Hello again :-) >I seem to be full of 'dumb questions' today. I've been playing with a >microcore using the 04 hex inverter. Most people suggest the schmidt trigger >14 hex inverter. Why?? >Mark (a very little mark) Lerman Hysteresis, my son. If you took a Vin vs Vout for an '04, you'd trace just about the same path going from low to high and back again. If you did the same thing for the '14, you'd find that the output changes at a different point going from low to high than from high to low -- it would draw a hysteresis curve that has a rhombus in the middle whose center is about the average of the turn-on and turn-off points. Also, the Schmitt turns slow-going analog signals into snappy quick-rise-time digital signals. This tends to make the behavior of the next nervous neuron slightly more predictable. Concerning another note: if 2mA LEDs are somewhat above (more or less, hedge, hedge) the high end of what a nervous neuron can drive and still make the next neuron in the chain work properly, then 10..15mA motors just are out of the ballpark methinks. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000B90E8; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:06:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14752 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:50:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07611 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:40:21 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11957 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA19082 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060139.VAA19082@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:31:03 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: It Walks!! SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: It Walks!! PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:31:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:06:30 PM-06/05/97 07:06:30 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:06:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:34 PM 6/3/97 -0400, Video Guy wrote: >Just a quick note, I'll post the details this weekend. > >My first try at a walker. It walked the first time out. I'm using two >lobotomize R/C servos and a four neuron microcore. Sure looks eerie when >it moves. I think I scared my wife. > >Dave. > I think that a lot of the stuff we "BEAM'ers" do scare prople !! :) Congratulations. Aren't those servos super-easy to attach to stuff!?! Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000B9150; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:06:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14765 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:55:57 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07614 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:40:25 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11966 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA19130 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060139.VAA19130@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:31:11 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Beam: Waist Motors SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Beam: Waist Motors PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:31:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:06:30 PM-06/05/97 07:06:31 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:06:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:02 AM 6/4/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >Hello all, > >I've seen many references to waist motors on the list. Can someone explain >where such a motor is placed on a beam walker, and what it does? I gather >that it's function is to allow a two motor (plus the waist) walker to reverse(?) > >Mark > > Hi (yet another) Mark :) The waist motor is usually put somewhere near, um . . , the waist of the 'bot. Placement isn't really the key as far as waist motors go, though. Here's how I would distinguish a 'waist' motor from a 'leg' motor. (off the top of my head) Waist motor has no 'end effector' directly attached. Waist motor position of 'leg' motor(s) with respect to other 'leg' motor(s). So, if I'm building a multi-jointed arm, I would consider the shoulder, elbow and wrist all to be 'waists' but the finger(s) to be 'legs' ;-) Did that clarify things? As for the way waist motors are usually referred to, in this list, let's imagine a two-motor, four-legged walker. The front legs are fixed w.r.t. each other, as are the rear legs. The front motor twists one way, the left-front leg goes forward and the right-front goes back. Reverse the front motor and the right-front leg goes forward (and the left front goes back) The rear leg-motor behaves in a similar manner. Now, if we _want to_ we can build this 'bot so that the motors turn in the same plane, with zero 'angle-of-attack'. (we probably _don't_ want to, but for now, let's) What happens when we operate this little- beastie? Well, not much "walking", more like "shuffling in-place, because the equal and opposite forces give us no net motion. . ." All four legs are on the ground, and every leg-pushing-us-forward has a matching leg- pushing-us-back. Now the waist. Let's add our third motor between the front leg-motor and rear leg-motor. Let's connect it so that it changes the plane of rotation of the front leg-motor w.r.t. the rear leg-motor. Follow me? Now, we'll drive that motor _exactly as if it were the front leg-motor_, in fact, this is a mind exercise, therefore we are using "Richard's Patented Perfect Motor Drivers with Unlimited Current Source" (just hook the two motors in parallel) Now every time the left-front leg goes forward it is also being _lifted_ by the waist motor; no contact with the ground, much reduced friction. The right-front leg, is being turned back and pushed into the ground; that gives us a net-forward thrust, or what I like to call, "a step". Please note that with this "mind design" and with two- motor walkers, without waist motors, it is _not_ the motor configuration that forces/allows the robot to walk forwards and backwards. It is the _sequencing_ that does that. Wow! Way more than you asked for! Sorry. Cheers, Richard. (running off at the keyboard) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000C4C9F; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:14:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14784 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:03:54 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07621 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:40:38 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11991 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA19242 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060140.VAA19242@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:31:33 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: direct microcore->motor SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: direct microcore->motor PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:31:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:14:30 PM-06/05/97 07:14:31 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:14:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:08 PM 6/5/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >Hi all, > >Does anyone have any experience connecting a microcore directly to the >motors? I have some lovely little gearmotors motors that draw 10-15 ma at 5 >volts that I can easily drive using a 74hc04 inverter, and I would like to >configure the inverter as a microcore. Any suggestions?? Do the 'standard >values' have to be modified? > >I don't mind experimenting, but I'm curious if anyone has done this. > >Mark Lerman > > > > Since you have the 'HC04's already, why not just use them as a driver. Leave your 'HC14 MicroCore intact. You would run into trouble without the "Schmitt" inputs. [ascii-art warning] --------| <--from MicroCore | | _ V <-- one "Schmitt" of your Microcore O | |-- Your "driver" 'HC04 stage | V o---------|>o---------o{motor} | | = <-- Capacitor (MicroCore) | | --------| <-- Back to rest of MicroCore [end art] Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000CB56B; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:18:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14798 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:08:27 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07618 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:40:35 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11986 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA19226 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060140.VAA19226@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:31:29 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:31:29 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:18:55 PM-06/05/97 07:18:56 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:18:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:32 PM 6/5/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Mark W. Tilden wrote: > >> White Paper: Yuma Proving Grounds Automatic UXO Detection using Biomorphic >> Robots. > >A worthy cause! > [snip] > >Can't help wonder though - without memory, won't the environment >force unwanted patterns of behaviour? Creating large area's where >the little guys just never go? I imagine certain types of UXO are >unlikely to attract them from a large distance. > Yup. But only _once!_ (boom) Cheers, Richard. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000D2BFB; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:23:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14791 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:06:30 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07623 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:40:40 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11998 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA19257 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060140.VAA19257@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:31:35 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: 74HC04 vs 74HC14?? PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:31:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:24:01 PM-06/05/97 07:24:01 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:24:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:37 PM 6/5/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >Hello again :-) Man! Won't this guy stop typing?!?!? :) >I seem to be full of 'dumb questions' today. I've been playing with a >microcore using the 04 hex inverter. Most people suggest the schmidt trigger >14 hex inverter. Why?? > >Mark (a very little mark) Lerman > Schmitt required. The hysteresis of the Schmitt trigger gets rid of unwanted transitions (and oscillations) when the input (at an individual gate) is in the 'linear region'. Or, maybe it's just 'cause Mark Tilden said so. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.000D96B9; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:28:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14832 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:18:05 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07852 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:55:03 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA13149 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts58-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA23244 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060154.VAA23244@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:45:56 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. PostedDate: 06/05/97 06:45:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 07:28:37 PM-06/05/97 07:28:38 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 07:28:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:30 PM 6/4/97 -0700, "Mark W. Tilden" wrote: [snip] >Essentially, the idea is to promote the minimal-bot idea on it's own >merits, but please, if you use something that I've invented (Nv net >permutations, the 6 tran H bridge, the Solarengine, ect.) do it in a way so >that doesn't cause me to grind my teeth. > [snip] > >Thanks. > >markt. > > " . . . The 'H'-bridge . . ." ? I thought that they had been around 'forever' ar, at least since slightly after _I_ invented the electron. :) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00208DBE; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:55:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA14956 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:45:13 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08809 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:49:50 -0500 Received: from ts30ip72.cadvision.com (ts30ip72.cadvision.com [207.228.70.72]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id UAA192908; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:45:24 -0600 Received: by ts30ip72.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC71F1.55857D40@ts30ip72.cadvision.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:44:59 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC71F1.55857D40@ts30ip72.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Richard Weait'" Cc: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Re: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:44:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Re: BEAM groups, promoting, and licensing. PostedDate: 06/05/97 07:44:51 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/05/97 10:55:46 PM-06/05/97 10:55:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/05/97 10:55:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>" . . . The 'H'-bridge . . ." ? I thought that they had been around 'forever' ar, at least since >slightly after _I_ invented the electron. :) Well well well, if it isn't Richard "I invented the mini ball " Weait, stirring up more trouble. I would like to clear up the following mistakes, Einstein did not come up with the theory of relativity, I did. Newton didn't discover gravity, I did in my basement late one night, while I was sitting at my work bench, a loose shelf with a can of paint on it broke off the wall and fell. The paint can promptly fell and hit my head, I wobbled for a minute then fell over (did I mention this is also how I came up with inertia). When I regained conciseness I looked at the paint can and had fantastic idea's , when it came to naming it, I looked at the paint can saw that the paint company that made the paint was named Gravity LTD. You know, Life is a lot more exciting if once and a while The truth gets bent only a little, "I once caught a fish as big as a moose" is a bit extreme Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00337EAC; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:22:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA15145 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:12:07 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA10468 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:20:07 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20419 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:20:03 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id CAA05168 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706060820.CAA05168@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: UXO minedetection paper (without pictures) is up To: beam@webconn.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:20:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: UXO minedetection paper (without pictures) is up PostedDate: 06/06/97 01:20:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 02:22:36 AM-06/06/97 02:22:37 AM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 02:22:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have the: Minesweepers may 94 Yuma Proving Grounds Automatic UXODetection using Biomorphic Robots. This paper is up now, but without the pictures. I will need to find a better way to convert from MSWord with pict format to HTML. (we did save as RTF and used rtftohtml to convert, but the 'pict' format, is a few steps). I will find a better way, so this will be faster.. The document is: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam/mines/minesweep.html Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00676D6E; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:49:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA16445 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:38:59 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13372 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:03:26 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA26378 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13949; Fri, 6 Jun 97 12:02:44 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:05:23 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/06/97 12:05:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 11:49:51 AM-06/06/97 11:49:52 AM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 11:49:52 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Can't help wonder though - without memory, won't the environment >force unwanted patterns of behaviour? Creating large area's where >the little guys just never go? I imagine certain types of UXO are >unlikely to attract them from a large distance. For this white paper I had to omit much of the advances we've made in biomech motivated detection and aquisition. The prior minebot papers are much more detailed in this but it was superfluous for this white paper. Needless to say the creatures do have a form of memory (Nv temporal coding), and has proven capable of solving nasty terrain conundrums. Indeed, one of my standard demos is to put the meter-long 'bigman 1.2' on the floor during a tour, and just let it wander around completely unassisted. It rarely gets stuck. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.006D4ADF; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:53:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16621 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:43:18 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13868 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:15:01 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA05187 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970606151436_-495062342@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Can Some One Please Help. SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Can Some One Please Help. PostedDate: 06/06/97 12:14:39 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 12:53:49 PM-06/06/97 12:53:49 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 12:53:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I was wounding if anyone could help me. I have this step motor which is rated at 5 VDC, and has 6 leads coming from it. Would anyone know how to use it or how to use a step motor of any type? I bought it thinking that I could get it to work without a problem (I thought what's to a motor?), but I can't get it to do anything at all. Even simpler what is the difference between step motors and normal motors? I am new to robotics and electronics so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.006E019B; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:01:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16634 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:51:01 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13739 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:56:35 -0500 Received: from dcp1-34.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-50.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.50]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27751 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970606135825.0b274772@mailhost.nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@mailhost.nc5.infi.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:58:25 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: My walker design Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: My walker design PostedDate: 06/06/97 06:58:25 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 01:01:39 PM-06/06/97 01:01:40 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 01:01:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all, My almost tiny (4") walker bot is coming along nicely, I'm impressed! I was even more impressed when this idea worked. It's just a starting point, if there are any obvious errors maybe someone point them out? Best way to hook up sensors? The tip on reversing the motor to back up was a major revelation (guess I never got the wires backwards:) Haven't seen any tiny 3V relays, tried using a 4016 to swap the two drive lines but too much on resistance, then thought "I have 1 more 4016... hmm reconfigure the net..." By golly it worked. - Terry (load of ascii ahead - use fixed font to view) ----------------------------------------------------------------- A two-motor walker that can back up... NOTE: This is a version of the Nervous Network, invented and internationally patented by Mark Tilden. Commercial usage is prohibited unless arrangements are made with the patent holder . This uses two dual-wire crossers to reconfigure the network so that it can go in reverse. A one-shot activates reverse mode for about 10 seconds when it encounters an obstacle. Increase the 4.7uF cap for more time. + | Npn >|-----. .---|>|--*-- + | .---. | /| | .----. | Reset Sw. .------*-|470|-*--------. .---O< |--*-|1.5M|-' .---O|_ | | `---' | | | \| | `----' | O| | Pnp >|-----' | | 2.2u | .----. | _|_ + | _|_ .---|<|---|-----' .--||--*-| 10 |---' | | | | _|_ `----' .-----|< Npn | .1u |1 |\ | .1u 2 |\ | .---.e| | .--||--*---| >O--*---. .--||--*---| >O---*--*-|470|-*-----. | | _|_ |/ | | _|_ |/ | | `---'e| | | | |1.5| 74HCT14 | | |1.5| | `-----|< Pnp | | | |_M_| | | |_M_| | _|_ | | | _|_ | | _|_ | | | | | `------. | | | | CD4016 by 2 .---|----------|----------' | | | .----------|---|----------|-. | | | .-|-*-|><|---* `-*-|><|---* | + | + | | *-|--' | | `---|-* _|_ + Rear \ / | `-|><|-. | `-|><|-. | | |100| Front Motor \ | `--|-|-*------' | | | |_K_| + Motor - / \ | .-|><|-|-' | .-|><|-|-' | .----. | e| - | | | | | `--|---*---|--' | *-|220K|-*--|< Pnp | | | `-|-*-|><|-* | *-|><|-* | `----' | | | | `----' ` | | | `-|---*------. | | | | .----.`---|---|------|----------|-. | + | | | .-|100K|----*---|------|----------|-|----' | | | | _|_`----' .-----' .----' | | .-----|< Npn | | | .1u 3 |\ | | .1u 4 |\ | | | .---.e| | | `--||--*---| >O--* `--||--*---| >O-|-*--*-|470|-*-----' | _|_ |/ | _|_ |/ | | `---'e| | |1.5| | |1.5| .--' `-----|< Pnp | |_M_| | |_M_| | _|_ | + _|_ | _|_ | .-|>|-. | | | 1 or 3 2 or 4 | _|_ | 4.7u | Npn >|-----. | .-> <-. | *--||--*-- + | |e.---. | | _|_ Offset Trim_|_ | /| | _|_ `------*-|470|-*--------'|10 | + + |10 |`-O< |---*--. |390| |e`---' | |_M_| _|_ _|_ |_M_| \| _|_ | |___| Pnp >|-----' | |500||500| | |1.5|| | Reverse _|_ `->|_K_||_K_|<-' |_M_|| O|_ Switch _|_ _|_ _|_ `---O| \ | | | Circuit notes... --|-- is a crossover, --*-- is a junction, _|_ is ground. | | Triggers are 74HCT14, quad switches CD4016 (4066 should work but had 4016s) Transistors g.p. npn and pnp TO92 type, diodes g.p. 1N914/1N4148 type. Offset trims connected to nodes 1 and 4 on my 'bot, how my tolerences fell Power is 3.6 volts switched (cordless phone battery) with 2.2u cap to gnd + and - left off of electrolytics, if you don't know don't make this... Many (most:) of the components were chosen from what was laying around so don't go by my values... change the .1uF/1.5M ratio to adjust speed. Sensors may be connected to notes 1 to 4 for more personality, here are some ideas I've been experimenting with... / .-----. .----. Feeler / .--|photo|---*---| 47K|---- + | _|_ | cell| | `----' .----. .--->|<--. `-----' `----|>|----|5.6M|-----> .----. | | | `----' To Nodes <--|1.5M|--|>|--*----|---' 1-4 `----' _|_ Different connections give different behaviour patterns, currently I have the photos going to the front nodes (2 and 4) and the feelers to the back (1 and 3) with no cross but this will change I'm sure. Use additional diode/resistor pairs to activate multiple nodes at once. Experiment! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.0075DDA2; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:27:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17059 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:16:56 -0700 Received: from ns2.unisource.be ([194.119.225.57]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14392 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:22:27 -0500 Received: from mailgate.unisource.be (MAILGATE.unisource.be [194.119.228.11]) by ns2.unisource.be (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA02871; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:12:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mailgate.unisource.be with Microsoft Mail id <3398EF90@mailgate.unisource.be>; Fri, 06 Jun 97 22:20:16 PDT From: "De Groote, Patrick" To: beam , ProMacPrg Subject: RE: Can Some One Please Help. Date: Fri, 06 Jun 97 22:19:00 PDT Message-ID: <3398EF90@mailgate.unisource.be> Encoding: 34 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 SMTPOriginator: PDG@unisource.be From: PDG@unisource.be Subject: RE: Can Some One Please Help. PostedDate: 06/06/97 10:19:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,ProMacPrg@aol.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 02:27:34 PM-06/06/97 02:27:36 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 02:27:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US try following URL: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/ it contains a very neat tutorial on stepper motors and controllers rgds Patrick ---------- From: ProMacPrg[SMTP:ProMacPrg@aol.com] Sent: vrijdag 6 juni 1997 15:14 To: beam Subject: Can Some One Please Help. Hi, I was wounding if anyone could help me. I have this step motor which is rated at 5 VDC, and has 6 leads coming from it. Would anyone know how to use it or how to use a step motor of any type? I bought it thinking that I could get it to work without a problem (I thought what's to a motor?), but I can't get it to do anything at all. Even simpler what is the difference between step motors and normal motors? I am new to robotics and electronics so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.0076FE9B; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:39:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17139 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:28:26 -0700 Received: from biivax.dp.beckman.com (biivax.dp.beckman.com [134.217.247.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14633 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:56:30 -0500 Received: from ccgate.dp.beckman.com (134.217.246.34) by BIIVAX.DP.BECKMAN.COM (PMDF V5.0-6 #18598) id <01IJR6GEQM408ZEHEF@BIIVAX.DP.BECKMAN.COM> for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:56:09 -0800 Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.dp.beckman.com id AA865630049; Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:48:21 -0800 (pst) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:48:21 -0800 (pst) From: Vicki K Zerr Subject: supplier for solar cells To: beam@webconn.com Message-id: <9705068656.AA865630049@ccgate.dp.beckman.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 12 Text SMTPOriginator: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com From: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com Subject: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/06/97 02:48:21 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 02:39:48 PM-06/06/97 02:39:49 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 02:39:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. My first attempt will be very very basic. So far I am having trouble locating solar cells. I have contacted some vendors through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local electronic and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I have found were surplus and not quite what I'm looking for. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Vicki Zerr ;) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.007E328E; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:58:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA17349 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:47:14 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15242 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:15:40 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01904; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:15:37 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id QAA10991; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706062215.QAA10991@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells To: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com (Vicki K Zerr) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <9705068656.AA865630049@ccgate.dp.beckman.com> from "Vicki K Zerr" at Jun 6, 97 01:48:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/06/97 03:15:36 PM SendTo: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 03:58:34 PM-06/06/97 03:58:35 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 03:58:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Solarbotics has a good supply of Panasonic solar cells, they are nice because they are tough (durable) and pretty efficient.. http://www.solarbotics.com/ Also Digikey still carries one type of panasonic, that are pretty big. http://www.digikey.com/ Otherwise, you could try the calculator or other solar devices, and use those. Good luck.. The little thin cells tend to break if you breath on them, but you could make a small backing for them. Thanks! Mark > > Hi all, > > I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. My first attempt > will be very very basic. So far I am having trouble locating solar cells. I have > contacted some vendors through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am waiting > to hear back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local electronic > and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I have found were surplus and > not quite what I'm looking for. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > Vicki Zerr ;) > > -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.007FA1FD; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:14:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA17419 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:02:15 -0700 Received: from discover.discover-net.net (discover-net.net [208.134.196.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15427 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:41:16 -0500 Received: from [208.134.205.238] (max-ec1-238.discover-net.net [208.134.205.238]) by discover.discover-net.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13492; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:41:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706062241.RAA13492@discover.discover-net.net> Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells Date: Fri, 6 Jun 97 17:45:11 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: jderyck To: "Vicki K Zerr" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" SMTPOriginator: jderyck@discover-net.net From: jderyck@discover-net.net Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/06/97 03:45:11 PM SendTo: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 04:14:13 PM-06/06/97 04:14:13 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 04:14:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Hi all, > >I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. My first >attempt >will be very very basic. So far I am having trouble locating solar cells. >I have >contacted some vendors through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am >waiting >to hear back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local >electronic >and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I have found were surplus >and >not quite what I'm looking for. Any help is greatly appreciated. > >Thanks > >Vicki Zerr ;) Hi Vicki, Digi-Key sells Panasonic solar cells. They're a large distributor, but are hacker/hobbiest friendly and will sell in small lots. or 1-800-344-4539. John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.00802247; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:19:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA17440 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:09:11 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15356 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:33:10 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05861; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id QAA11096; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706062233.QAA11096@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Can Some One Please Help. To: ProMacPrg@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <970606151436_-495062342@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "ProMacPrg@aol.com" at Jun 6, 97 03:14:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Can Some One Please Help. PostedDate: 06/06/97 03:33:00 PM SendTo: ProMacPrg@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 04:19:40 PM-06/06/97 04:19:41 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 04:19:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > Hi, > I was wounding if anyone could help me. I have this step motor which is > rated at 5 VDC, and has 6 leads coming from it. Would anyone know how to use > it or how to use a step motor of any type? I bought it thinking that I could > get it to work without a problem (I thought what's to a motor?), but I can't > get it to do anything at all. Even simpler what is the difference between > step motors and normal motors? I am new to robotics and electronics so any > help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Timothy Deterly > ProMacPrg@aol.com > You will want your normal low voltage/low amp DC motor. Good ones you can find in old walkmans, etc..(portable electronic devices). As for steppers. there are different types, but they share a common theme that you need to pulse the different wires in a order to make the shaft turn. But that WWW page should help... Again... Solarbotics carries cassette mechanisms.. and pager motors. http://www.solarbotics.com/ Also I have a list of surplus stores on-line that may have some: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/robot/resource.html Also a fun thing to do is to help the landfills and basements... 1. Ask electronics repair shops to keep them for you.. perhaps give them a box and go there once/week 2. Ask friends and relatives to clean out the atticks and basements of old portable electronics.. That should help you find a source. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AE.0083B5AF; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:58:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA17554 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:48:15 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15956 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:34:43 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA20083 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts9-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts9-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.100]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA13449 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706062333.TAA13449@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:25:03 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/06/97 04:25:03 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/06/97 04:58:47 PM-06/06/97 04:58:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/06/97 04:58:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:48 PM 6/6/97 -0800, Vicki K Zerr wrote: >Hi all, > >I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. My first attempt >will be very very basic. So far I am having trouble locating solar cells. I have >contacted some vendors through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am waiting >to hear back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local electronic >and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I have found were surplus and >not quite what I'm looking for. Any help is greatly appreciated. > >Thanks > >Vicki Zerr ;) > > Hi Vicki (and All) Panasonic makes some great solar cells. Unfortunately they prefer to sell them in quantities of one thousand. . . . . .Not what I would call "Hobby-friendly". You can get solar cells from: http://www.solarbotics.com . . . and other places like science stores (but at inflated prices) You might find usable cells in discarded, worn-out, broken calculators. There are tricks to getting them connected properly though. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AF.00280386; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:17:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA18206 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:06:41 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA18097 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 02:00:26 -0500 Received: from odi (asd08-20.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.245]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA20145 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:00:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:02:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/07/97 12:02:18 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 12:17:06 AM-06/07/97 12:17:07 AM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 12:17:07 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Mark W. Tilden wrote: > >Can't help wonder though - without memory, won't the environment > >force unwanted patterns of behaviour? Creating large area's where > >the little guys just never go? I imagine certain types of UXO are > >unlikely to attract them from a large distance. > Needless to say the creatures do have a form of memory (Nv temporal > coding), and has proven capable of solving nasty terrain conundrums. > Indeed, one of my standard demos is to put the meter-long 'bigman 1.2' on > the floor during a tour, and just let it wander around completely > unassisted. It rarely gets stuck. A wonderful achievement, showing great progress when compared with most mobile `bots I've seen. But I still wonder how a `bot, or group of `bots, can guarantee to cover every square foot of a certain area, if it is not equipped with some formal navigation system and quite a bit of ordinary memory. A lawn mowing bot might succeed because it marks its terrain - cuts the grass - so it could detect the edge between cut and uncut grass, spiralling towards the center. In this case, the `memory' of the system as a whole is part of the environment. An UXO seeking `bot would presumably not mark the terrain, unless it leaves a trail equivalent to the pheromones used by ants and such. Yet it has to fully cover the area with reasonable efficiency. And if a group of `bots is used, the time used to cover the area has to decrease significantly with group size. Simple random walking won't achieve that. Such a `brownian motion' could only be somewhat successful on a flat surface. Other plane-filling fractals offer more hope, but they all seem to require pretty good navigation. It seems to me that navigation is the next great thing after not getting stuck :) Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AF.0028063A; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:17:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA18207 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:06:41 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA18100 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 02:00:56 -0500 Received: from odi (asd08-20.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.245]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id JAA20175; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:00:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:02:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Vicki K Zerr cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells In-Reply-To: <9705068656.AA865630049@ccgate.dp.beckman.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-532373336-865665961=:2234" Content-ID: $FILE: SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/07/97 12:02:56 AM SendTo: vkzerr@ccgate.dp.beckman.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 12:17:26 AM-06/07/97 12:17:27 AM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 12:17:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Vicki K Zerr wrote: > I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. > My first attempt will be very very basic. So far I am having > trouble locating solar cells. I have contacted some vendors > through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am waiting to hear > back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local > electronic and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I > have found were surplus and not quite what I'm looking for. Any > help is greatly appreciated. I have attached part of page 405 from the Digikey catalog. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - digikey.gif $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AF.00448854; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:28:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA18384 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:18:08 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19592 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:05:49 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-170.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.170]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA07562 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2FD5962D.612C@golden.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 08:06:05 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/07/95 05:06:05 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 05:28:39 AM-06/07/97 05:28:40 AM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 05:28:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > An UXO seeking `bot would presumably not mark the terrain, unless > it leaves a trail equivalent to the pheromones used by ants and > such. Yet it has to fully cover the area with reasonable > efficiency. Not neseceraly... Efficiancy is only a prime concern when the machines doing it are of limited power or lifetime... Or if you are the Military trying to safezone a beach in 20 min.. Niether of wich are things Biomorphs are trying to achive... a solar powered device(s) (and we're gettin som BIG ones goin...) would be able to clear an area out of persistance rather than efficiancy... >And if a group of `bots is used, the time used to cover > the area has to decrease significantly with group size. Simple > random walking won't achieve that. Such a `brownian motion' could > only be somewhat successful on a flat surface. Other plane-filling > fractals offer more hope, but they all seem to require pretty good > navigation. Random these things are not... Chaotic they are... Fractal they also are... The group chaotic behaviours end up being very effective... Both me and Mark have made an effort to track the coverage of a collective of photovores... Thu the use of video ans somthing as simple as putting down flour on the surface and watching the tracks... I can tell you the bugs cover 98% of the surface in about 5 days... Weels got a little gummed up with bread dough though :) Walking (or alternative) devices using similar principles would/do have the same results... > It seems to me that navigation is the next great thing after not > getting stuck :) Your right .... Tildens BigMan uses a $35 flux gate compass thats been hacked and inserted into the net as a directory sensor.. Several of us have built head mechanisms and othe vision type systems so Biomorph tech is expandable past "just get it walking".... things like off the shelf GPS and such offer future Biomorphs the complex navigation systems without having to Build our own and we still don't need a processor to do the walking... all4n $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AF.0044A11A; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:29:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA18387 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:19:15 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19637 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:13:46 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA29081 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:13:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:13:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny2-24.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.88) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029077; Sat Jun 7 07:13:18 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970607081923.36cf1f26@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: direct motor to microcore works! SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: direct motor to microcore works! PostedDate: 06/07/97 05:13:42 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 05:29:40 AM-06/07/97 05:29:41 AM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 05:29:41 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Concerning another note: if 2mA LEDs are somewhat above (more or less, >hedge, hedge) the high end of what a nervous neuron can drive and still >make the next neuron in the chain work properly, then 10..15mA motors just >are out of the ballpark methinks. > > >Zoz Well, I tried it anyway, and it seems to work just fine. I am using very low power high efficiency gear motors that draw about 10 ma, a 74hc14 hex schmitt inverter, and .22 uf caps. I have used both 1 meg and 10 meg resistors with success (to get different rates). I did have to put a .22 uf cap across the motors to keep everything stable, although it worked pretty well without it (most of the time :-) The leds are still connected, and they work fine, too. I think the reason is that the hc chips can source and sink 20 ma or so. Anyway, it does work quite well, which simplifies everything quite a bit and should provide maximum feedback to the microcore. Am I missing something here?? Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564AF.004BEB2C; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 06:49:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA18415 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 06:38:44 -0700 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (fuzzgun.demon.co.uk [194.222.137.155]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20152 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:24:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 01:26:37 GMT From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (Bob Mottram) Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <906@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Blatant Newbie X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 19 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Blatant Newbie PostedDate: 06/06/97 06:26:37 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:49:16 AM-06/07/97 06:49:17 AM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:49:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've heard quite enough chat. Now I'm going to try and build a microcore walker myself. One question though. If I can't get hold of a 74HC14, will a 74HC04 or 40106B surfice for the task ? If not, does anyone know of a good (preferably UK) supplier of these chips. Cheers, Bob -- Bob Mottram www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0005A705; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:01:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18729 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:51:16 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00701 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:27 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08415 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:26:50 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA14757 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16593; Sat, 7 Jun 97 11:26:24 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:29:03 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/07/97 11:29:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:01:47 PM-06/07/97 06:01:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:01:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >It seems to me that navigation is the next great thing after not >getting stuck :) Quite right, but navigation can only emerge from a machine with significant 'local-world' competence. Distal navigation can be obtained through a variety of off-the-shelf means, but only a device with competence in it's internal and immediately local field has a hope of succeeding. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0005A799; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:01:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18731 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:51:18 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00691 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:23 -0500 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08708 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:57:09 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA26348 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts74-07.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts74-07.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.182]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA13033 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706071853.OAA13033@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 14:44:14 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: BEAM Blatant Newbie (I doubt!) SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: BEAM Blatant Newbie (I doubt!) PostedDate: 06/07/97 11:44:14 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:01:47 PM-06/07/97 06:01:48 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:01:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:26 AM 6/7/97 GMT, Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk wrote: > > >I've heard quite enough chat. Now I'm going to try and build a >microcore walker myself. Having read and enjoyed your posts on sci.electronics.design for some time, I'm "not buying" your self-deprecating "newbie" line. You'll be expected to start with "runners" never mind the "walking"! Glad to have you aboard. > >One question though. > >If I can't get hold of a 74HC14, will a 74HC04 or 40106B surfice >for the task ? Failing the 74HC14 (my favourite) other families of '14 are nice (HCT, C, etc.) The 40106B will work, but current output is so limited that debugging LED's must be buffered/driven from another chip. That, of course, make the circuit more complex, and may add it's own layer of debugging :-) The 74HC04 will not make you happy. You'll need the "schmitt" inputs. In a pinch (like starting a new porject, after the shops are closed, and you've just used your last 74HC14) I've used a 74HC132 (quad, dual, schmitt NAND) with the 'spare' inputs tied high to make 'virtual schmitt inverters'. >If not, does anyone know of a good (preferably UK) supplier of these >chips. > >Cheers, >Bob > >-- > Bob Mottram > www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0005AB76; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:01:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18734 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:51:32 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00704 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:27 -0500 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08386 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:19:31 -0500 Received: from scotty.bogon.com [207.6.172.36] by wu.bogon.com with esmtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0waP90-0000oj-00; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:19:14 -0700 From: "Scott Martin" To: "Steven Bolt" Cc: Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:15:52 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/07/97 10:15:52 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:01:57 PM-06/07/97 06:01:58 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:01:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Wow, I didn't realize that Digi-Key got those cells in again. At one time they were sold out. I bought a package of 10 of those cells awhile ago, had one on a walker, which is what they would be perfect for. A bit overkill for a roller unless you are making a large one, in which case see Solarbotics about getting a competion sized cell. ScottyDogma ---------- > From: Steven Bolt > To: Vicki K Zerr > Cc: beam@webconn.com > Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells > Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 12:02 AM > > On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Vicki K Zerr wrote: > > > I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. > > My first attempt will be very very basic. So far I am having > > trouble locating solar cells. I have contacted some vendors > > through work who referred me to Panasonic. I am waiting to hear > > back from them. In the meantime I have checked out some local > > electronic and hobby shops with very little luck. The cells I > > have found were surplus and not quite what I'm looking for. Any > > help is greatly appreciated. > > > I have attached part of page 405 from the Digikey catalog. > > Best, > > Steve > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0005B8E4; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:02:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18737 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:52:07 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00688 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:23 -0500 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08704 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:57:07 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net ([204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA26345 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts74-07.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts74-07.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.182]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA13012 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706071853.OAA13012@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 14:44:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: supplier for solar cells PostedDate: 06/07/97 11:44:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:02:38 PM-06/07/97 06:02:38 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:02:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:02 AM 6/7/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Vicki K Zerr wrote: > >> I just recently began to play with the idea of building a BEAM. [snip . . .] >>The cells I >> have found were surplus and not quite what I'm looking for. Any >> help is greatly appreciated. > > >I have attached part of page 405 from the Digikey catalog. > >Best, > >Steve > > Yup, those are great cells. Unfortunately DigiKey dropped the rest of the Panasonic line of Solar cells when they sold all of the stock. The "BP3733" was particularly nice. The one cell they still carry, is a larger version of the same cell. (same voltage and width, more current and length) I can't use those big ones right now; they would hang over the sides of each of my current projects. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0005BF0C; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:02:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18740 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:52:24 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00706 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:28 -0500 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08320 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:59:23 -0500 Received: from odi (asd10-29.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.45.62]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id SAA14585 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:58:43 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:00:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO In-Reply-To: <2FD5962D.612C@golden.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/07/97 10:00:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:02:48 PM-06/07/97 06:02:48 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:02:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Andrew Miller wrote: > Efficiancy is only a prime concern when the machines doing it are of > limited power or lifetime... -----8<---- > a solar powered device(s) (and we're gettin som BIG ones goin...) would > be able to clear an area out of persistance rather than efficiancy... `Efficient' also means covering every square foot of the area, without hitting part of it too often. Not just a matter of speed... > Both me and Mark have made an effort to track the coverage of a > collective of photovores... > Thu the use of video ans somthing as simple as putting down flour on the > surface and watching the tracks... > I can tell you the bugs cover 98% of the surface in about 5 days... > Weels got a little gummed up with bread dough though :) What kind of surface was this? A natural environment may not induce the same type of pattern. > Walking (or alternative) devices using similar principles would/do have > the same results... ...In the same environment? > Tildens BigMan uses a $35 flux gate compass thats been hacked and > inserted into the net as a directory sensor.. ------8<------ > things like off the shelf GPS and such offer future Biomorphs the > complex navigation systems without having to Build our own and we still > don't need a processor to do the walking... Ah. Electronic compass. GPS. Now I get the picture :) Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.00062AAD; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:07:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18743 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:56:59 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00683 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:41:22 -0500 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08971 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:03:29 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco20-192.cas.golden.net [207.216.79.192]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA23437; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2FD605DE.572C@golden.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 16:02:38 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Blatant Newbie References: <906@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Blatant Newbie PostedDate: 06/07/95 01:02:38 PM SendTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:07:23 PM-06/07/97 06:07:24 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:07:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > If I can't get hold of a 74HC14, will a 74HC04 or 40106B surfice > for the task ? > The 04 won't work so well but the 106B will do nicely... you can also use C14 VHC14 and HCT14 all with slightly different but usable results.. all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0009C74F; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:46:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA18770 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:36:26 -0700 Received: from nj5.injersey.com (nj5.injersey.com [206.139.48.252]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01428 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:23:58 -0500 Received: from default (ppp106-tmrv.injersey.com [206.139.59.106]) by nj5.injersey.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29678 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3399F7FC.C28CFEC0@injersey.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 20:08:29 -0400 From: Video Guy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: It Walks. The details. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 SMTPOriginator: biltclif@injersey.com From: biltclif@injersey.com Subject: It Walks. The details. PostedDate: 06/07/97 05:08:29 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 06:46:51 PM-06/07/97 06:46:51 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 06:46:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US This might be old news for some of you but here it is anyway. The microcore uses 4 inverters from a 74h14. The resitors are 1meg and the caps are .22uf. I used an other inverter to make a startup injector ( 10meg, .1 uf and a diode). I used 3 74als245 stacked to drive the motors. The motors are 2 Hobbico CS-51 Servos. I removed all the electronics and brought out the leads of the motor. This gave me a nice clean package with a motor and gear box. I glued the servos back to back so that the output shafts were pointed away from each other. I tried a few different ways to connect the legs. What I ended up using was bare 12 gauge copper wire solder to a penny. I then drilled a hole just large enough for the servo screw. Then I glued the penny to the nylon servo disk and screwed back on. This created a strong connection for the legs. I played a lot with the leg configurations. I don't think I'm done experimenting yet. I also had to put leg stops on the side of the servos to prevent the leg from swinging more then about 45 degress from center. I have a video capture board so if any wants a picture, e-mail me and I'll send it to you. But it's not a pretty sight! Hope this helps someone. Dave. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0019AF77; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:40:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18863 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:29:59 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01773 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:58:08 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA06037 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970607235800_-1664439874@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Help with microcore. SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Help with microcore. PostedDate: 06/07/97 08:58:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 09:40:40 PM-06/07/97 09:40:41 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 09:40:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US First off I wanted to say thanks to everyone that answered my question on stepper motors. I got it to work more or less. I do have another question, this one is on how to get the microcore to work. I have a 74HC14 IC and have tried to get it to work but nothing seems to work, either all the LEDs are on or they are all off. Could I have damaged the IC? What type cap should I use? If they are polar type caps which way should they be oriented? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0021AAF4; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:07:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA18906 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:57:21 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02154 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:18 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA07999 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:14 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (procompsognathus.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.220]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA20082 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339A43D1.4FBF@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:32:01 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Brownian Mini-Ball Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Brownian Mini-Ball PostedDate: 06/07/97 10:32:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 11:07:49 PM-06/07/97 11:07:50 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 11:07:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US "BROWNIAN MOVEMENT. The random movement observed amoung microscopic particles suspended in a fluid medium. ..based upon the law of equipartition of energy; and the agreement between the predictions of this theory and the experimental results is very satisfactory." - VAN NOSTRAND'S SCIENTIFIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Richard Weaits mini-ball appears to move and follow light like a particle moving with Brownian motion. Could it also be a macro version of matter and photon interaction? Although the textbooks don't give him credit for discovering the electron, I think we should look into this. Mini-ball construction and behavior http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/images/hirez/mb_3.gif (old Solarbotics web address) Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0021ADF2; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:07:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA18907 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:57:21 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02162 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:31 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA08005; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:20 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (procompsognathus.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.220]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA20095; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339A51AE.2B33@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:31:10 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Monkey walkers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Monkey walkers PostedDate: 06/07/97 11:31:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/07/97 11:07:55 PM-06/07/97 11:07:55 PM DeliveredDate: 06/07/97 11:07:55 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Bill Harrison, owner of Sine Robotics (sinerobt@halcyon.com), designed a neat bipedal walking robot called "Johnny Walker One." He described how to build it in the Jan-Mar issue of ROBOTICS DIGEST. Using just one servo, it can move forward and turn. It uses an IR sensor for obstacle avoidance and a BASIC Stamp controller. The entire robot is only 4" tall. In the same issue, Rob Turner's (robt612@aol.com) shows how to build "Hybribot." It's a combination wheel and walking mechanism. Using a combination of these concepts... I wonder how a bipedal chimpanzee robot might work. It could have a low center of gravity and swing its arms to keep balanced. With a little design work, the leg motor(s) could probably swing the arms while the robot walks. The legs would be bent to make the robot walk like a squatting monkey. The legs attach to rotating hip joints, to provide lift and forward motion, and run out of phase. While one leg lifts, the other leg would press backwards to push the robot forward. Finally, the body leans forward about 10 degrees to maintain balance. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.004F5C8E; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:26:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA19096 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:16:02 -0700 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (fuzzgun.demon.co.uk [194.222.137.155]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02609 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:05:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:24:02 GMT From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (Bob Mottram) Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <937@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM Blatant Newbie (I doubt!) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 18 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: BEAM Blatant Newbie (I doubt!) PostedDate: 06/08/97 05:24:02 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 07:26:53 AM-06/08/97 07:26:53 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 07:26:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In message <199706071853.OAA13033@inforamp.net> Richard Weait writes: > Having read and enjoyed your posts on sci.electronics.design > for some time, I'm "not buying" your self-deprecating "newbie" > line. You'll be expected to start with "runners" never mind > the "walking"! Glad to have you aboard. Ok. So I've played the field a bit. But as far as microcore type stuff goes I've remained a mere armchair speculator until now. I'd certainly like to have a go at building something with a dynamic gait, but I think I'll try to crawl before I hop :) -- Bob Mottram "Just what is it that you want to do?" www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0052C599; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:04:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA19105 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:53:41 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02764 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:41:36 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA27976 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.180]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA19040 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706081441.KAA19040@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:32:08 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Brownian Mini-Ball SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Brownian Mini-Ball PostedDate: 06/08/97 07:32:08 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 08:04:07 AM-06/08/97 08:04:08 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 08:04:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:32 PM 6/7/97 -0700, "Michael A. Tyborski" wrote: [snip] > >Although the textbooks don't give him credit for discovering the >electron, I think we should look into this. [Richard wrote, previously] :at least since slightly after _I_ invented :the electron. :) Michael, I'm sorry to split hairs but I invented the electron, I did not discover it. Here's why. I felt that the universe was "Way too positive", all smiles and sunshine, you know that sort of irritating stuff. We really needed a little "negativity"; thus I developed the electron in my secret lab in the Rocky mountains. I felt that just a little negativity was appopriate, so I made the electron much smaller than those nasty protons (see 'nucleus', invented by Dave Hrynkiw) but with a charge of approximately equal magnitude. . . ;-> > >Mini-ball construction and behavior >http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/images/hirez/mb_3.gif >(old Solarbotics web address) > Is this an old bookmark, or has Dave not made this available on the new URL? >Cheers, >Michael A. Tyborski >WebWerx >Milwaukee, WI > > > > Cheers, yourself! I'm sure we can work-out an acceptable 'salutation rent'. :) Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0052E468; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:05:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA19108 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:55:00 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02766 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:41:37 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA27978 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.180]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA19049 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706081441.KAA19049@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:32:11 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Monkey walkers SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Monkey walkers PostedDate: 06/08/97 07:32:11 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 08:05:29 AM-06/08/97 08:05:30 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 08:05:30 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:31 PM 6/7/97 -0700, "Michael A. Tyborski" wrote: >Bill Harrison, owner of Sine Robotics (sinerobt@halcyon.com), designed a >neat bipedal walking robot called "Johnny Walker One." He described >how to build it in the Jan-Mar issue of ROBOTICS DIGEST. Using just one >servo, it can move forward and turn. It uses an IR sensor for obstacle >avoidance and a BASIC Stamp controller. The entire robot is only 4" >tall. I really like that design. Hope to have the time to put one together, with a MicroCore rather than a "Stamp", of course. > >In the same issue, Rob Turner's (robt612@aol.com) shows how to >build "Hybribot." It's a combination wheel and walking mechanism. This article showed an interesting use of nesting brass and poltstyrene square-tubing. The author built contact switches right into the frame of the robot. > >Using a combination of these concepts... > >I wonder how a bipedal chimpanzee robot might work. It could have a low >center of gravity and swing its arms to keep balanced. With a little >design work, the leg motor(s) could probably swing the arms while the >robot walks. The legs would be bent to make the robot walk like a >squatting monkey. Sounds like fun. Keep us updated on your progress. > >The legs attach to rotating hip joints, to provide lift and forward >motion, and run out of phase. While one leg lifts, the other leg would >press backwards to push the robot forward. Finally, the body leans >forward about 10 degrees to maintain balance. Why the 10 degrees? Does the 'squatting' put the centre of gravity behind the feet? Or is this a number measured from nature? I think the kangaroo / T-Rex design will be a fun exercise too. Bipedal walker with smaller manipulators (arms / hands) for tool use, and a signifcant tail for balance while moving, and a tripod-al perch when stationary. > >Cheers, >Michael A. Tyborski >WebWerx >Milwaukee, WI > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.005C139D; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:45:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA19136 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:35:20 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03133 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:25:14 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA29623; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:25:09 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (maccheroni.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.199]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA10145; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:25:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339AEAA5.15C3@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:23:49 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobts@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Monkey walker update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Monkey walker update PostedDate: 06/08/97 10:23:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobts@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 09:45:50 AM-06/08/97 09:45:50 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 09:45:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Here is an update on the monkey walker proposal: ARMS You can make a simple pair of arms by bending a piece of stiff wire or metal into a horseshoe shape. Attach small counter weights on the ends and connect the center to servo motors. By swinging harder in one direction and gently returning, the arms may help the robot turn. BODY ANGLE We'll have to study real monkeys to see how they move. I just estimated 10 degrees. In practice, the battery pack and servo motors will determine the center of gravity. LEG MOTION It's important to rotate at the joints. Notice how our hip motion helps humans walk smoothly. SENSORS An IR sensor could provide obstacle detection. In addition, simple bump switches could be installed on the arm assembly. CONTROL SYSTEM A BASIC Stamp or Mark Tilden's Microcore should work fine. As with Richard Weait (BEAM group), I prefer the Microcore because it's cheap and effective. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.005E7025; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:11:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19155 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:01:09 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com (emout13.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.39]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03362 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:57:37 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA03232 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608125734_1075173853@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Help with microcore. SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Help with microcore. PostedDate: 06/08/97 09:57:34 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 10:11:40 AM-06/08/97 10:11:42 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 10:11:42 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US First off I wanted to say thanks to everyone that answered my question on stepper motors. I got it to work more or less. I do have another question, this one is on how to get the microcore to work. I have a 74HC14 IC and have tried to get it to work but nothing seems to work, either all the LEDs are on or they are all off. Could I have damaged the IC? What type cap should I use? If they are polar type caps which way should they be oriented? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0060C6B6; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:37:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19166 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:26:40 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03568 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:16:10 -0500 Received: from ts1ip52.cadvision.com (ts1ip52.cadvision.com [207.228.66.52]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id LAA187154 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:11:53 -0600 Received: by ts1ip52.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC73FC.A2C4F1A0@ts1ip52.cadvision.com>; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:10:55 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC73FC.A2C4F1A0@ts1ip52.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'Beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Idea's Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:10:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Idea's PostedDate: 06/08/97 10:10:41 AM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 10:37:11 AM-06/08/97 10:37:12 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 10:37:12 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I came up with a few idea's during the week and thought some people might want to steal, err use them in their designs. The first one is to keep the spring sensors on a photovore not to sensitive, put a small amount of heat shrink around the spring, only shrink it until it is semi-tight. This makes the spring not have so much elasticity ... With my new walker I found a lot of great inspiration, I decided to instead of putting 1 piece of wire on it, but 4 twisted together, what you get in affect is the abili ty to make "feet" or a lot more feet positions. Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0061DD2C; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:48:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19169 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:38:28 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com (emout03.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.94]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03640 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:32:30 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA05553 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608133227_-1597003275@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Help With MicroCore SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Help With MicroCore PostedDate: 06/08/97 10:32:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 10:49:06 AM-06/08/97 10:49:06 AM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 10:49:06 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US First off I wanted to say thanks to everyone that answered my question on stepper motors. I got it to work more or less. For the use of the microcore which chip should I use? The 74CH14 , 74CHT14 , 74CH04, 74CHT14 ,74CH00,or the 74CHT00? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.006C2CF7; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:41:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19212 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:31:04 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03860 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:22:41 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA15410 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608152232_1176149395@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solar cells SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Solar cells PostedDate: 06/08/97 12:22:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 12:41:41 PM-06/08/97 12:41:42 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 12:41:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I have a solar cell that is rated about 1.4 V and 400mA, but it doesn't produce that at all. I have tried it outside on a sunny day even right on top of a halogen lamp, over the halogen lamp it is able to give about 1V and about 50mA. Is this a normal solar cell or are the Panasonic ones for Digi-Key better? I haven't used solar cells before so I don't really know what to expect from them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.00714301; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:37:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19246 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:26:30 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04013 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:12:20 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAB09375 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts74-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.185]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA03236 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706082012.QAA03236@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 16:03:18 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Help with microcore. SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Help with microcore. PostedDate: 06/08/97 01:03:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 01:37:11 PM-06/08/97 01:37:12 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 01:37:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:57 PM 6/8/97 -0400, ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: > First off I wanted to say thanks to everyone that answered my question on >stepper motors. I got it to work more or less. > I do have another question, this one is on how to get the microcore to work. > I have a 74HC14 IC and have tried to get it to work but nothing seems to >work, either all the LEDs are on or they are all off. Could I have damaged >the IC? What type cap should I use? If they are polar type caps which way >should they be oriented? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, >Timothy Deterly >ProMacPrg@aol.com > > > > Hi Timothy; The 74HC14 will do the job. Depending on what you have done to the chip so far, you might have damaged it. . . "Good thing they're cheap." You'll want a few for your next project anyways. Make sure that you are using non-polarised caps; "monolithic" work well as they are fairly small. 0.1 microfarad and 0.22 microfarad are two values that work well. Resist the temptation to use larger caps. You will need a collection of resistors that range from 1.0 MegOhms all the way up to 10.0MegOhms. (Get even larger values if you can find them, cheap) Make your first MicroCore with 'larger' values like 0.22uF caps and 10.0meg resistors. Get a handfull of low-current LED's to use for debugging. These are the LED's that operate at 1.0 to 2.0 mA instead of 10 to 20 mA. Use larger than usual current limiting resistors for the LED's. Use a benchtop power supply for debugging, rather than solar cells, at least until you get the hang of the MicroCore basics. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.00716CA3; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:38:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19249 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:28:26 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04016 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:12:23 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA09383 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts74-10.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.185]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA03240 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706082012.QAA03240@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 16:03:20 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: BEAM: Toronto meeting SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: BEAM: Toronto meeting PostedDate: 06/08/97 01:03:20 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 01:39:00 PM-06/08/97 01:39:01 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 01:39:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi gang; I'll be hosting a get-together for BEAM interest people in July. Exact location depends on interest, so let me know how many of you would like to attend, and I'll get a place big enough to hold us all. Who is welcome? If you contribute to this list, you are welcome. If you only read this list, you are welcome. If you think that the things you have read about on this list are interesting . . . you are welcome. While I will not put an age limit on this meeting, be aware that it is grown-up oriented. High school students are welcome, as are Junior High students that are on their 'Best Behaviour.' I will be on my 'Best Behaviour' as well. :-) What will happen? We will primarily "Ooohhh!" and "Aaahhh!" over your projects. If you bring your parts and tools you will be able to set-up and get building. I'll help with debugging and trouble-shooting, where possible. I'll display a couple of my prototypes and works-in-progress, as well, but this meeting will mostly be about _your_ projects, and getting them going. What should I bring? Your project even if it is incomplete; Especially if it is incomplete!!! Your safety gear: goggles, etc. Your tools: soldering iron, pliers, cutters, breadboards. Your parts: Bring what you'll use, plus extras for trading! Photos of any projects too big to bring. Why are we doing this? Some of you need an excuse to build. Some others are procrastinators, and won't build until the 'last second'. This is a chance for both of these groups to aim for an intermediate goal, until we get the next BEAM games set-up for this area. While some of you will work hard to have something finished when you show-up, others will walk in with a handful of parts. Sometimes it's tough to build at home. There are those distractions (phone, chores, family) that can not be ignored. This is a chance to "get away from it all" for an afternoon, breakout the soldering iron and put those final touches on your project. When? Saturday 12 July 1997 Noon until 5:00P.M. Where? To be determined. But within the boundaries of Metropolitan Toronto. How much? Relatively cheap. Perhaps a small fee if I have to rent a place for us to meet, or have coffee catered. We'll aim to keep it under $10.00 (Canadian :) ) Reply to me directly at : Richard Weait as this is BEAM related, but of limited interest to the bulk of the list. We don't want a bunch of posts saying "Me, too." that would just drive our friends in other time- zones absolutely insane. I will post periodic summaries to the list, and send info by direct e-mail if requested. Again, don't reply to the list unless it is of general interest. Post to me directly regarding your interest in this matter. Cheers, Richard. -- Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be dealt with promptly and very harshly. -- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.00730964; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:56:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19255 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:46:08 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04155 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:34:02 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA07337; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (tefnut.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.125]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA11548; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:33:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339B251B.5F73@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 14:33:15 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org, stamps@parallaxinc.com Subject: PIC Links Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: PIC Links PostedDate: 06/08/97 02:33:15 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org,stamps@parallaxinc.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 01:56:41 PM-06/08/97 01:56:42 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 01:56:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Antonio Chong Leal wrote: Besides the Microchip and Parallax web sites, here are some other web sites that provide alot of information about the PIC microcontrollers. These chips are very popular, inexpensive, and readily available from Digi-Key and other suppliers. Some PICs, in fact, sell for under $5 each. Robot builders can use PIC chips to simplify their programs. For example, you can use one chip to control the motor platform and scan ultrasonic rangefinders and other navigation sensors. This frees your main computer for planning and interaction with the user. With the time critical tasks out of the way, BASIC Stamps--with their easy-to-learn BASIC language--can act controllers for many contest robots. Digi-Key (www.digikey.com) Parallax (www.parallaxinc.com) The PIC Chip Uncovered (7 pages) by Kevin Ross Provides an overview of the PIC architecture and instruction set http://www.hhhh.org/srs/encoder/may97/picchip.html (Now, SRS has its web site at www.seattlerobotics.org) Public Link Page http://digiserv.com/takdesign/pic-faq/publinks/publinks.htm ITU's PIC Resource Center http://www.itutech.com/pic.htm Microchip Net Resources http://www.ormix.riga.lv/eng/mchip/mchip.htm Beginners' PIC Page http://hobbes.king.ac.uk:80/matt/pic/ Eric Smith's PIC Projects http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/pic/index.html Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0076DE5B; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:38:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA19271 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:27:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04430 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:17:32 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA12060 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts60-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts72-08.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.146.215]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA13402 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706082117.RAA13402@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 17:08:31 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Solar cells SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Solar cells PostedDate: 06/08/97 02:08:31 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 02:38:31 PM-06/08/97 02:38:32 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 02:38:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:22 PM 6/8/97 -0400, ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: > I have a solar cell that is rated about 1.4 V and 400mA, but it doesn't >produce that at all. I have tried it outside on a sunny day even right on >top of a halogen lamp, over the halogen lamp it is able to give about 1V and >about 50mA. Is this a normal solar cell or are the Panasonic ones for >Digi-Key better? I haven't used solar cells before so I don't really know >what to expect from them. >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, >Timothy Deterly >ProMacPrg@aol.com > > The cell will give better results in sunlight than in artificial light. Solar cells, like car stereos, may have some 'creative' aspects to their statistics, best to use the manufacturers ratings as a relative performance index within their own product lines. . . Also, performance generally decreases as temperature increases, so putting it right on the halogen wouldn't give you the best results even if the halogen light spectrum were ideal for the cell. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.007C31BA; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:36:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA19299 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:26:06 -0700 Received: from nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (nisku.blackgold.ab.ca [198.53.152.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04554 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:49:20 -0500 Received: from [198.53.152.144] (fort1.tnc.com [198.53.152.144]) by nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA28953 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:50:58 -0700 To: Beam@webconn.com From: dzwalton@tnc.com (mouths of babes) Subject: unsubscribe SMTPOriginator: dzwalton@tnc.com From: dzwalton@tnc.com Subject: unsubscribe PostedDate: 06/08/97 03:50:58 PM SendTo: Beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 03:36:41 PM-06/08/97 03:36:42 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 03:36:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When a fish pond that was a meadow shall be mowed, Sagittarius being in the ascendant, Plague, Famine, Death by militatary hand, The Century approaches renewal. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B0.0082BE22; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:48:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA19326 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:37:40 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04717 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:12:52 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA12876; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:12:37 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (fusilli.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.194]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA12735; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:12:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339B4975.4FAF@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 17:08:21 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Maze madness Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Maze madness PostedDate: 06/08/97 05:08:21 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 04:48:07 PM-06/08/97 04:48:08 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 04:48:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Maze-running competitions are one of the earliest ways used to test mobile robots. They force developers to build mechanical mice that quickly learn the most effective path to a goal and reach it in the shortest time. The mazes range from tabletop designs to labyrinths that fill basketball courts. In an open letter to the Trinity Fire-Fighting contest organizers, Dr. Fred Martin provides important pointers for groups that hold these contests. He feels that robots should use general problem solving techniques. This change will "make it easier for us robot-builders to conceive of solutions that will be genuinely effective." Learn more at http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/p rojects/handy-board/misc/fredm423.txt. If you are planning to enter a Fire-Fighting or Micromouse competition, these web sites can help get you started: Micromouse (13 pages) Provides background information, mouse design hints, rules, and lots of references http://ee.cityu.edu.hk/~rtbrad/micromouse.html CSULB Micromouse Most of this web site provides useful information. Be sure to read "Micromouse: An interdisciplinary educational experience." http://heart.engr.csulb.edu/studorgs/micromouse/index.html Micromouse Resources Page Provides rules, design guidelines, and a simulator http://www.uel.ac.uk:80/pers/C.Kanesalingam/mousehp.htm Design and Development of a Micromouse http://www.uel.ac.uk/pers/C.Kanesalingam/kanesh.htm UR-MM1 The University of Rochester's Micro Mouse Robot (5 pages) History and rules for the 1994 competition http://www.ceas.rochester.edu:8080/ee/users/weisberg/mouse.html The Micromouse Competition (4 pages) Rules for the Class A and Class B competitions http://sst.lanl.gov/robot/micromouse_rules.html The Object Sample mazes from previous competitions. See how your program logic would fare. http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/umouse/object.html These web pages show entrants from previous competitions. Unfortunately, they don't provide many technical details. http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~jchoi/micromouse.html http://jedi.ece.ucsb.edu:2152/~wilder/micromouse.html http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/~ieee/mouse/index.html Without a plan, your mouse may aimlessly wander through a maze. Here are some methods that it can use to build a map of the maze: A Novel Algorithm for Solving Mazes http://ogun.stanford.edu/~bnayfeh/mazealgo.html A Potential Maze Solving Algorithm for a Micromouse Robot (14 pages) by L. Wyard-Scott and Q.-H. M. Meng at the University of Alberta-Canada http://nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/~wyard/pacrim.html Re: Q: Maze and Robot solving problem http://www.krl.caltech.edu/~brown/news/ai-games-html/1301.html Finally, this web site helps humans learn what their robots must go through: Welcome to Walter's Maze Mansion! Including the Seattle Robotics Society maze, it has lots of maze links. http://www.magitech.com/~cruiser1/labyrnth/maze.htm Good luck everyone with your upcoming robot contests. A-Mazing performances are always welcomed. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B1.00157B9B; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:54:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA19439 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:44:09 -0700 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05030 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:26:47 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA08516 for beam@webconn.com; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608232435_-429668179@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM: Microcore Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id WAA05030 SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: BEAM: Microcore Questions PostedDate: 06/08/97 08:26:39 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/08/97 08:54:44 PM-06/08/97 08:54:45 PM DeliveredDate: 06/08/97 08:54:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I sent in a letter a week or so ago, and got no apparant response back. Did I unwittingly stumble onto some questions that few people can answer, or did it not reach anyone on this list? It's on the BEAM archive, so I think people should have gotten it. I have gotten letters from some people asking me to please post the responses that I got from the letter, but I haven't gotten any responses! Would some person who knows a lot about microcores answer them? The letter follows: ***************************************** Hello! I have a few more questions (don't scream!) about microcores that I don't understand, and would like to. I sent a letter to Mark Tilden a while ago and asked him some questions. He answered them (I recently posted the letter in the BEAM mailing list, you have probably read it) , but I need some help with understanding the practical applications of what he said. Any help would be appreciated greatly. -------------------------------------------- In the paper "living machines", Mark Tilden's Walkman has a reverse sensor. My question ran like so: >>How does the reverse sensor work, and what is it connected to? >It is connected to a 74HCT244 configured as a reversing multiplexer and >motor driver. That is what the motor with the X through it means. You >only have to reverse the direction of the single waist motor to reverse >direction of the bug. Question 1 : The 74HCT244 is configured as a reversing multiplexer, and a multiplexer is a sort of DPDT switch. So, when the sensor connected to the front of Walkman hits a wall, it makes the 74HCT244 act like an electronic switch somehow. This reverses the polarity of the "waist" motor and makes the bug go backwards. How long does it go backwards like this or does it have another switch on the back end that makes it go forward again? More importantly, how did he use the 74HCT244 to make it act like a switch? What did the circuit look like? >>- The symbol lexicon (in Living machines) for Walkman shows that it is connected to 4 tactile >>sensors. What part of the neurons are they attached to? >They are attached right to the bias inputs before the inverters. Question 2: The tactile sensors are attached to the nervous neurons like so (true/false): Tactile Sensor | | | Input from----||----*----|>o---------O last neuron C1 | U1 Out | > < > R1 < | Gnd >>Do the plus or minus symbols next to the tactile sensors add or >>subtract pulses from the microcore, or do something else? >Where there is a - they change the time delay across that neuron downward, >where there is a +, they extend the delay. They do not create or destroy >pulses, only change their propagation properties. Question 3 : How do you make the tactile sensors change the time delay across the neuron? Would you hook up a resistor to the tactile sensor and then make it attached to ground for decreasing the length of a pulse and V+ for increasing the length of a pulse? How big of a resistor would I need? Or am I completely incorrect? Would it look like this?: Gnd or V+ | Tactile Sensor | > < > R2 < | | Input from----||----*----|>o---------O last neuron C1 | U1 Out | > < > R1 < | Gnd Question 4 : On the page of "Living Machines" with the symbol lexicon for Walkman, it has two infrared "eyes" that I think are acting as switches to make the robot turn when it hits wall. They are connected to the two motors on that side of the bug. Are they disabling the two legs on that side of the robot, making a crude turn, or are they reversing direction of both of the motors on the other side, making it turn more efficiently? Is this another DPDT switch of some type? Thanks for helping! Ivar Thorson, 15 ----------------------------- "Gotta get myself one of these cool footnote type things?." "Oh well?" "Maybe later?" ---------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B1.0042F1F6; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:11:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA19743 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:00:44 -0700 Received: from server1.oxford.net (server1.oxford.net [205.206.241.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05719 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 06:38:09 -0500 Received: from DEFAULT (nnt-174.oxford.net [205.206.241.174]) by server1.oxford.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA02314 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706091139.HAA02314@server1.oxford.net> X-Sender: hendryjr@mailhost.oxford.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Iain Hendry Subject: Introduction SMTPOriginator: hendryjr@oxford.net From: hendryjr@oxford.net Subject: Introduction PostedDate: 06/09/97 04:39:07 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 05:11:18 AM-06/09/97 05:11:18 AM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 05:11:18 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello everyone! I'm new to the list and thought I should introduce myself. My name is Iain Hendry, and I'm 15 years old. I live about an hour west of Toronto, Ontario. I've always been interested in robotics, but not really microbots until about a year ago when I bought one of Dave Hyrnkiw's solarroller kits from an address I found on the internet. I had a blast putting it together, and made two more with the same style of circuit, which my cat promptly destroyed (they were sitting in the front window and she thought 'It moves. I may as well eat it.') My other intrests include Roller coasters, Architecture, and watching the Mighty Ducks Animated Series, and not a heck of a lot else. Iain ---------------------------------------- My address is: hendryjr@oxford.net My Roller Coaster Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr My Mighty Ducks Animated Series Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr/ducks.html Check 'em Out! ---------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B1.00771768; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:40:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA21878 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:30:18 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06914 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:30:10 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA18104 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:29:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:29:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny1-03.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.35) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018082; Mon Jun 9 15:29:23 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970609163440.3117b1fa@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: need help from UK Beamers SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: need help from UK Beamers PostedDate: 06/09/97 01:29:48 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 02:40:50 PM-06/09/97 02:40:50 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 02:40:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, I've located some great little motors, but Robbe, the company that sells them has no US distributor at this time. They do, however, have a UK distributor (mostly for the model helicopter stuff). Would it be possible for someone in the UK to see if they could find Robbe part No. 4126? Robbe calls it a 'Kleinstgetriebemotor' - it is 50RPM at 6 volts. The sample I have draws only 10 ma at 6 volts. I would purchase 10-20 of them, depending on price, and would be happy to pay by credit card if someone in the UK could find them. The information below is from their 1 page web site http://www.robbe.com. Midland Helicopters Trevor Wallinger phone 011-44-455-637-762 fax 011-44-455-619-348 e-mail: trevor@midheli.co.uk I have sent Mr. Wallinger an email, but have had no reply so far. Thanks for any help. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B1.007D91FB; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:51:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22194 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:40:55 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07147 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:12:34 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts48ip202.cadvision.com [207.228.72.202]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id QAA198978; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:08:00 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970609161557.00cb2350@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:15:57 -0600 To: IMIvar@aol.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM: Microcore Questions In-Reply-To: <970608232435_-429668179@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM: Microcore Questions PostedDate: 06/09/97 03:15:57 PM SendTo: IMIvar@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 03:51:45 PM-06/09/97 03:51:47 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 03:51:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:26 PM 6/8/97 -0400, IMIvar@aol.com wrote: >Question 1 : The 74HCT244 is configured as a reversing multiplexer, and a >multiplexer is a sort of DPDT switch. So, when the sensor connected to the >front of Walkman hits a wall, it makes the 74HCT244 act like an electronic >switch somehow. This reverses the polarity of the "waist" motor and makes the >bug go backwards. How long does it go backwards like this or does it have >another switch on the back end that makes it go forward again? More >importantly, how did he use the 74HCT244 to make it act like a switch? What >did the circuit look like? Since the '244 is a buffer, it has a pair of directional enable lines. Simply use a RC circuit that quick-charges thru a diode on activation (the touch sensor), which switches the MUX on, then stays on until the RC drains down to a voltage where it goes back into default mode (fwd). Not entirely sure what the circuit looks like, but I believe there's been a few MUX-type circuits ascii'd up here before... >Question 2: The tactile sensors are attached to the nervous neurons like so >(true/false): > > Tactile > Sensor > | > | > | >Input from----||----*----|>o---------O >last neuron C1 | U1 Out > | > > > < > > R1 > < > | > Gnd Well, that'd simply kill or add processes. Condition the tactile sensor so that it either reduces resistance (parallel with R1), or makes it harder to discharge (connect the "*" thru a large resistor greater than R1 to Vcc). It's been a while since I've "microcored" much up, so take it for what it's worth... >>>Do the plus or minus symbols next to the tactile sensors add or >>>subtract pulses from the microcore, or do something else? >Question 3 : How do you make the tactile sensors change the time delay across >the neuron? See above. (And yes, I think you're correct with the ascii that followed) Good luck, DAve -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.0004C23C; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:51:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00250 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:41:35 -0700 Received: from server1.oxford.net (server1.oxford.net [205.206.241.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07378 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:24:20 -0500 Received: from DEFAULT (nnt2-32.oxford.net [207.216.68.32]) by server1.oxford.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA17916 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706100025.UAA17916@server1.oxford.net> X-Sender: hendryjr@mailhost.oxford.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Iain Hendry Subject: A brief introduction SMTPOriginator: hendryjr@oxford.net From: hendryjr@oxford.net Subject: A brief introduction PostedDate: 06/09/97 05:25:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 05:52:01 PM-06/09/97 05:52:01 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 05:52:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello everyone! I tried sending this earlier but it bounced it back so I'll try again... I'm new to the list and thought I should introduce myself. My name is Iain Hendry, and I'm 15 years old. I live about an hour west of Toronto, Ontario. I've always been interested in robotics, but not really microbots until about a year ago when I bought one of Dave Hyrnkiw's solarroller kits from an address I found on the internet. I had a blast putting it together, and made two more with the same style of circuit, which my cat promptly destroyed (they were sitting in the front window and she thought 'It moves. I may as well eat it.') My other intrests include Roller coasters, Architecture, and watching the Mighty Ducks Animated Series, and not a heck of a lot else. Iain ---------------------------------------- My address is: hendryjr@oxford.net My Roller Coaster Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr My Mighty Ducks Animated Series Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr/ducks.html Check 'em Out! ---------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.0016405C; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:03:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00474 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:52:35 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07704 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:32:14 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA26119 for beam@webconn.com; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970609233146_-1463844480@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Basic Stamps? SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/09/97 08:31:49 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 09:03:12 PM-06/09/97 09:03:12 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 09:03:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yet another question. Are basic stamps used with BEAM robots? (Why/Why not) Does any one know anything about basic stamps? If so could you inform me some on the subject. I know some about them such as you can program them on a computer, but can you use a Macintosh to program them? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.0017A753; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:18:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00490 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:07:44 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07795 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:54:51 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA07993 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts3-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts3-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.193]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA27069 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706100354.XAA27069@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:45:23 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM: Microcore Questions SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM: Microcore Questions PostedDate: 06/09/97 08:45:23 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 09:18:30 PM-06/09/97 09:18:31 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 09:18:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:26 PM 6/8/97 -0400, IMIvar@aol.com wrote: >I sent in a letter a week or so ago, and got no apparant response back. Did I [snip] > >The letter follows: > >***************************************** > >Hello! > [snip] I have already seen one reply to this post, I will try to answer different questions. . . >Question 1 : The 74HCT244 is configured as a reversing multiplexer, and a >multiplexer is a sort of DPDT switch. So, when the sensor connected to the >front of Walkman hits a wall, it makes the 74HCT244 act like an electronic >switch somehow. This reverses the polarity of the "waist" motor and makes the >bug go backwards. How long does it go backwards like this [. . .] That is up to you. It is your design. >[. . .] or does it have >another switch on the back end that makes it go forward again? [. . .] Again, that is up to you. an example of something similar to this is on the "Bolt Photovore". Check Steve Bolt's page. >[. . .]More >importantly, how did he use the 74HCT244 to make it act like a switch? What >did the circuit look like? Vcc | | :| N.O. switch (press to reverse) | | Inv1 o-----o------|>o-----o To reverse enable | | / | \R1 =C1 / | \ | | | Gnd Gnd Choose R1 and C1 for the reverse time you want. Add optional R2 from switch to Vcc to reduce sensitivity. Inverter / buffer to 'digital-ize' analog signal. [snip] > >Thanks for helping! > > >Ivar Thorson, 15 > >----------------------------- >"Gotta get myself one of these cool footnote type things€." >"Oh well€" >"Maybe later€" > ---------------------------- > > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.00210C85; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:00:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00613 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:50:29 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08159 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:42:21 -0500 Received: from odi (asd14-29.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.45.190]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id HAA09479 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:42:11 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:44:33 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970609163440.3117b1fa@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers PostedDate: 06/09/97 10:44:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 11:01:04 PM-06/09/97 11:01:04 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 11:01:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > I've located some great little motors, but Robbe, the company that sells > them has no US distributor at this time. They do, however, have a UK > distributor (mostly for the model helicopter stuff). Would it be possible > for someone in the UK to see if they could find Robbe part No. 4126? Robbe > calls it a 'Kleinstgetriebemotor' - it is 50RPM at 6 volts. The sample I > have draws only 10 ma at 6 volts. > > I would purchase 10-20 of them, depending on price, and would be happy to > pay by credit card if someone in the UK could find them. The information > below is from their 1 page web site http://www.robbe.com. The (geared) motor you refer to is also in the catalog of the German mail-order house Conrad. In fact, Conrad sells 8 different versions: Cat. nr. voltage gear ratio rpm price (Dutch fl) ---------------------------------------------------------------- 24 28 02-44 1.5-3 96.4:1 72-145 19.95 24 28 10-44 1.5-3 249:1 27-55 21.95 24 28 29-44 1.5-3 487:1 14-28 21.95 24 28 37-44 1.5-3 916:1 7.5-15 22.95 24 25 51-44 3-6 96.4:1 57-115 19.95 24 25 43-44 3-6 249:1 22-44 21.95 24 25 35-44 3-6 487:1 11-22 21.95 24 25 27-44 3-6 916:1 6-12 22.95 They are a bit expensive (over $10 a piece), but very high quality. Including the gearbox and shaft they measure about 22 x 23 x 17mm, and power use of the 1.5-3V 96.4:1 version is around 50mW when doing hard work; the 3-6V versions are even more efficient. A while ago I traded some of these beauties with Andrew Miller, who tried using the higher gear ratio's in what we might call `standard' walking `bots. He reported that it was too easy to strip the gears. The past few days, there has been an 8-legged spider sitting on my desk, powered by two 1.5-3V 96.4:1 motors, externally geared a further 5:1 for a total ratio of 482:1. It is possible to turn the output shaft by hand without stripping the gears, and the spider's mechanical and electrical performance is quite good. I hope to have photos and details up on my Webpages by next week or so. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.002195BE; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:06:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00624 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:56:26 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08085 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:34:52 -0500 Received: from [207.34.144.108] by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA271; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:37:04 -0700 From: "Mairs, T." To: "BEAM" , "Iain Hendry" Subject: Re: A brief introduction Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:25:00 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970610053703417.AAA271@[207.34.144.108]> SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: Re: A brief introduction PostedDate: 06/09/97 10:25:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,hendryjr@oxford.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 11:07:01 PM-06/09/97 11:07:02 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 11:07:02 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Hello everyone! > Hi, Iain ! <> I've always been interested in robotics, but not really microbots > until about a year ago when I bought one of Dave Hyrnkiw's solarroller kits Yet another Recruit-by-Dave - Go, team, GO! > and made two more with the same style of circuit, which my cat promptly > destroyed (they were sitting in the front window and she thought 'It moves. > I may as well eat it.') That happens... First rule of creative robotics - don't let your cat eat your work ! > My other intrests include Roller coasters, Architecture, and > watching the Mighty Ducks Animated Series, and not a heck of a lot else. > My Roller Coaster Homepage: > http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr > My Mighty Ducks Animated Series Homepage: > http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr/ducks.html Cool home pages... Your models are most creative, I think I'll build a link here...... Tom Mairs Aasland Technologies Don't miss out - http://www.img.net/aasland/ Visit the Aasland Web Site for news, reviews, and important information about our changing world $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.0021AFD8; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:07:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00630 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:57:33 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08061 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:27:45 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts4ip148.cadvision.com [207.228.66.148]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id XAA202148; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:23:21 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970609233210.00cc7050@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 23:32:10 -0600 To: ProMacPrg@aol.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? In-Reply-To: <970609233146_-1463844480@emout11.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/09/97 10:32:10 PM SendTo: ProMacPrg@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/09/97 11:08:02 PM-06/09/97 11:08:03 PM DeliveredDate: 06/09/97 11:08:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:31 PM 6/9/97 -0400, ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: > Are basic stamps used with BEAM robots? (Why/Why not) They're a bit power hungry, requiring about 10mA when running, but in the microamp when in "sleep" mode, so I think they're not totally a write-off. I'm playing with a few now to learn their characteristics. If you want more, jump to the parallax site (www.parallaxinc.com) and join the stamp mailing list. > I know some about them such as you can program them on a computer, but can >you use a Macintosh to program them? Apparently so! Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.00439E11; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:18:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00932 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:08:10 -0700 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08589 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:45:05 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6.Beta3) id GAA24264; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:45:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (isis.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.108]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA22998; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:44:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339D4B7D.376E@execpc.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:41:33 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ProMacPrg@aol.com CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? References: <970609233146_-1463844480@emout11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/10/97 05:41:33 AM SendTo: ProMacPrg@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/10/97 05:18:40 AM-06/10/97 05:18:41 AM DeliveredDate: 06/10/97 05:18:41 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: > > Yet another question. > Are basic stamps used with BEAM robots? (Why/Why not) Does any one know > anything about basic stamps? If so could you inform me some on the subject. > I know some about them such as you can program them on a computer, but can > you use a Macintosh to program them? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Hi Tim: In addition to the Parallax web site that Dave mentioned, here are other places to learn about BASIC Stamps: DonTronics Basic Stamp Page http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck/stamp.html List of Stamp Applications Includes many robots or applications that can be converted to robot use. You'll have over 80 examples to look over. http://www.hth.com/losa.htm ftp://ftp.parallaxinc.com/pub/text/losa.txt Micromint PicStic More onboard hardware and programmable in BASIC or assembly language http://www.micromint.com Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.004FB4C6; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:30:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA01163 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:20:12 -0700 Received: from seraph.uunet.ca (uunet.ca [142.77.1.254]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08794 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:49:31 -0500 Received: from jdsfit by seraph.uunet.ca with UUCP id <656716-26038>; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:49:21 -0400 Received: from raven.jdsfitel.com (raven [172.26.66.31]) by pigeon.jdsfitel.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA21656 for <@pigeon.jdsfitel.com:beam@webconn.com@pigeon.jdsfitel.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:42:19 -0400 Received: by raven.jdsfitel.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0889; Tue, 10 Jun 97 09:44:03 -0400 Message-Id: <9706101344.AA0889@raven.jdsfitel.com> Received: from JDS FITEL Inc with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id F1ABF8E285CCCF8C852564B2004B1900; Tue, 10 Jun 97 09:44:03 To: beam From: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:41:49 -0400 Subject: where to get surplus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain SMTPOriginator: jdsfit!Mike_Trecieski@seraph.uunet.ca From: Mike_Trecieski@jdsfitel.com Subject: where to get surplus PostedDate: 06/10/97 02:41:49 AM SendTo: jdsfit!webconn.com!beam@gromit.webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/10/97 07:30:39 AM-06/10/97 07:30:40 AM DeliveredDate: 06/10/97 07:30:40 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi everybody, does anyone know if there are any surplus places in Ottawa for electronics and other types of parts? (I know I could go to Active in Toronto but was wondering if there's something closer) Mike $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.007382B3; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:01:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA03056 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:51:14 -0700 Received: from fw.sjha.org (fw.sjha.org [205.142.29.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10054 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:08:14 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by fw.sjha.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA26484 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:08:01 -0400 Received: from unknown(170.59.10.26) by fw.sjha.org via smap (V1.3) id sma026469; Tue Jun 10 16:07:53 1997 Received: by exch1.sjhatest.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC75B7.B4C86C30@exch1.sjhatest.com>; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:02:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: "McKenna, Chuck" To: "'Beam List'" Subject: RE: Calculator Solar Cells Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:02:32 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: CMcKenna2@sjha.org From: CMcKenna2@sjha.org Subject: RE: Calculator Solar Cells PostedDate: 06/10/97 01:02:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/10/97 02:01:44 PM-06/10/97 02:01:45 PM DeliveredDate: 06/10/97 02:01:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just wanted to thank every one who answered this question for me. I ended up using the defogger repair goop. (ouch, expensive(but a little goes a long way)) I fastened the leads (22 g. wire) to the solar cell pads with the defogger repair goop, allowed it to dry over night, put on another coat, set another night, and coated with a layer of NON-conductive epoxy. Worked great. Thanks, -Chuck http://www.mindspring.com/~cmckenna Home brewing, ham radio and more! >---------- >From: Dave Hrynkiw[SMTP:dave@solarbotics.com] >Sent: Friday, May 30, 1997 1:40 PM >To: McKenna, Chuck; 'Beam Robot List' >Subject: Re: Calculator Solar Cells > >At 12:59 PM 5/30/97 -0400, McKenna, Chuck wrote: >>Does anybody have any experience with the solderless type solar cells >>found in some pocket calculators? I opened up three old calculators, >>and two had these. If I clip them into aligator clips, they give me >>voltage, but a little wiggle can interupt the current. How do I get >>reliable power out of these puppies? > >3 Methods: > >1: Make a clip out of folded brass to which you have your leads soldered >to. As soon as you read voltage, SUPERGLUE them into place > >2: Use conductive epoxy to establish a decent connection > >3: Use a conductive ink pen or automotive defogger repair paint kit. With >the pen, I solder to it when it's still moist, which congeals in a >conductive mess. (Don't breath the fumes!). > >Good luck, >Dave >-- >"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, >that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only >2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com >Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B2.007DB201; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:52:55 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03553 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:42:25 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10373 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:13:16 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA03286 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts8-14.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts8-14.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.125]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA00751 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706102213.SAA00751@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:03:29 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/10/97 03:03:29 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/10/97 03:53:00 PM-06/10/97 03:53:01 PM DeliveredDate: 06/10/97 03:53:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:31 PM 6/9/97 -0400, ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: >Yet another question. > Are basic stamps used with BEAM robots? (Why/Why not) Does any one know Nope, don't need 'em. That doesn't mean that you _can't_ though. . . >anything about basic stamps? If so could you inform me some on the subject. > I know some about them such as you can program them on a computer, but can >you use a Macintosh to program them? >Any help would be greatly appreciated. Try the stamp mailing list. Sorry I dont have the address for you. It is similar to the BEAM list but Stamps are the topic :) > >Thanks, >Timothy Deterly >ProMacPrg@aol.com > > > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B3.0028ED2D; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:27:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA04310 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:20:12 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10689 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:04:42 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id JAA21168 for beam@webconn.com; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:54:05 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA866043469 Wed, 11 Jun 97 08:37:48 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 08:37:48 Message-Id: <9705118660.AA866043469@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Re[3]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: Re: Re[3]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? PostedDate: 06/11/97 01:37:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 12:27:18 AM-06/11/97 12:27:19 AM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 12:27:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >>What would be the purpose of the microcore design: walker or general >>purpose? Very general purpose. I think a jumper strip to select nodal interconnections (4 Nv or 6 Nv) is in order. I hope you all enjoy soldering SMD components as much as I do. :) I'm getting a little slammed at work right now,so it could be a while... Learning to Crawl, Cam. ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[3]: BEAM Bicore and Microcore... and Steppers? Author: "Brian O. Bush" at Supernet Date: 6/10/97 1:29 PM $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B3.005CFE37; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:55:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA05520 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:45:17 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11573 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:58:35 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA19958; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id JAA12992; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:58:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970607081923.36cf1f26@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:58:35 -0600 To: Mark Lerman From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: direct motor to microcore works! Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: direct motor to microcore works! PostedDate: 06/11/97 08:58:35 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 09:55:49 AM-06/11/97 09:55:49 AM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 09:55:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 7:13 AM -0500 6/7/97, Mark Lerman wrote: >>then 10..15mA motors just >>are out of the ballpark methinks. >> >>Zoz >Well, I tried it anyway, and it seems to work just fine. Coolness! Congratulations, Mark. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B3.005E9D32; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:13:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05640 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:03:01 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11570 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:56:26 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA19174; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id JAA12640; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:56:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:56:24 -0600 To: Steven Bolt From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Abstract: Automatic UXO PostedDate: 06/11/97 08:56:24 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 10:13:30 AM-06/11/97 10:13:31 AM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 10:13:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 9:02 AM +0200 6/7/97, Steven Bolt wrote: >An UXO seeking `bot would presumably not mark the terrain, unless >it leaves a trail equivalent to the pheromones used by ants and >such. The following is written only slightly tongue-in-cheek: One of the design principals behind Mark's UXO robots is an incredibly robust survivability. This translates, in general, to: "When the robot steps on something explodable, that thing will explode taking some portion of the robot with it. The robot will, however, continue to function in a useful (though reduced) manner afterward. So... no pheromone trails needed. The robot will merely leave a trail of crumbs, ahem, itself behind as it goes. Zoz p.s. yeah, I know there are technical difficulties with this, but it is a joke, ok??? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B3.006DD30F; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:59:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06529 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:49:08 -0700 From: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Received: from cs.utah.edu (cs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12132 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:33:18 -0500 Received: from sal.cs.utah.edu by cs.utah.edu (8.8.4/utah-2.21-cs) id NAA00270; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by sal.cs.utah.edu (8.8.4/utah-2.15sun-leaf) id NAA06408; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706111933.NAA06408@sal.cs.utah.edu> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? SMTPOriginator: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu From: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/11/97 12:33:04 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 12:59:42 PM-06/11/97 12:59:42 PM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 12:59:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US If you just use a PIC chip rather than the fancier stamps, you can run it at a slower clock frequency and use *much* less power. For example, a PIC16C84-04 run at 4MHz uses 4.5mA max and 1.8mA typically. If you slow it down to 32KHz, you get 400uA max and 35uA typically. You can shut it down into sleep mode, where it uses 100uA max, 1uA typical (or 7uA typical if you use the watchdog timer). Maybe the stamps are similar... I wouldn't know, I haven't looked at them much. Sometime when I get the time, I'd like to design a calculator solarcell power supply for a PIC, so that it charges up a capacitor with the PIC in sleep mode, and then wakes up, uses up the juice, and then goes back to sleep. Unfortunately, I'm more a software guy than hardware, so it will wait until I get a big hunk of time. Greg $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00161903; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:01:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08636 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:50:48 -0700 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12891 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:36:05 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6.Beta3) id WAA21743; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:35:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (metabelis-27.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.72.154]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA29587; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:35:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <339F7B66.5C06@execpc.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:30:30 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Walker Invasion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Walker Invasion PostedDate: 06/11/97 09:30:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 09:01:27 PM-06/11/97 09:01:28 PM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 09:01:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Walking robots are in vogue now. Moving step-by-step over uneven terrain--indoors and out, they seem to have a life of their own. They were once complicated devices that took many man-years to build and program. Now, students routinely build them within a few days. These web sites show walker designs and how they can be improved by studying nature. FRANK SCOTT'S HEXAPOD ROBOTS This web site describes versions of a walking robot that is powered by 12 R/C servos and controlled by a 68HC11 microcontroller. It discusses the electronics, mechanics, and software design. The author includes schematics, parts lists, PCB layouts, and construction notes. Overall, it is an excellent site for learning how to make a complex walking robot. Home page with LOTS of links to other walking robot web sites http://www.frasco.demon.co.uk/ General Design Considerations (4 pages) Excellent discussion of stability, gaits, and leg design. This section includes equations for designing legs. http://www.frasco.demon.co.uk/rodney/mechan/design.htm HOME OF THE HEXWALKER (TM) MOBILE ROBOT Learn most of the details about M&T System's inexpensive "HexWalker" walking robot. It uses a BASIC Stamp to control three RC servos in a simple and effective design. http://pw2.netcom.com/~mandtsys/robots.html A Closer Look at Nickel-Cadmium Shows how to keep your batteries from reversing polarity or failing from "memory effect" http://pw2.netcom.com/~mandtsys/robots/nicd.html Most walking robots use either R/C servos or Nitinol wire to move the legs. Unfortunately, both approaches suffer from limited power or speed. These web sites show how to build AIR MUSCLES that have "a power-to-weight ratio of about 400:1"! Biologically-based Robots Describes how to make McKibben artificial muscles http://brl.ee.washington.edu/BRL/bbr.html The Shadow Robot Group Including a humanoid walking robot, this site describes many robots built with Shadow Air Muscle. It also provides important background information that should help others get started with this research. http://www.shadow.org.uk/ Shadow Robot Project: The SHADOW Air Muscle http://www.shadow.org.uk/muscle.html Although walking robots normally use one or more microcontrollers to sequence the legs, this approach may be obsolete. Mark Tilden's patented Microcore circuit can do it for you. Using a 74HC14 IC and a few resistors and capacitors, it sequences the legs and adapts their motion to the terrain. Tilden described this adaption in his talk at the EANN '95 conference: These devices do not use "feedback" in the standard sense, but rather "implex", as the driving forces are augmented by perceived load rather than by a separate regulating path. The result is highly compliant, animal-like machine motions that "negotiate" rather than "bully" their way through environments, resulting in minimal damage to both world and robot. Very unique, indeed. Biomorphic Robotics and Nervous Net Research: A New Machine Control Paradigm by Mark W. Tilden Source of the above quote http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/Biomorphic.html Living Machines (paper) Excellent introduction to this design philosophy http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam/living_machines.pdf The Microcore Provides Microcore background information, the Nervous Net patent, and tells how to make a two-motor walker. This site is a great place to get started with Microcore research. Thanks Andrew Miller! http://www.golden.net/~amiller/Microcore.htm Nature designs efficient structures. By studying her examples, robot builders can build systems that are simple and effective, too. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.001A4B22; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:47:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08720 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:36:22 -0700 Received: from kitsune.swcp.com (swcp.com [198.59.115.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13080 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:23:17 -0500 Received: from ppp116.swcp.com (ppp116.swcp.com [204.134.0.226]) by kitsune.swcp.com (8.8.5/1.2.3) with SMTP id WAA09750 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706120423.WAA09750@kitsune.swcp.com> X-Sender: pmeister@swcp.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:27:56 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: pmeister@swcp.com (Paul Klarer) Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? X-Mailer: SMTPOriginator: pmeister@swcp.com From: pmeister@swcp.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/11/97 09:27:56 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 09:47:23 PM-06/11/97 09:47:23 PM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 09:47:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Yes, absolutely right. The BASIC Stamp is essentially a PIC processor with a version of a BASIC interpretor built-in. The PIC chips are RISC-type chips that are extremely efficient and easy to work with (as far as microprocessors or microcontrollers go) and can be programmed in C with much better results than with BASIC stamp. There is a set of chip families in the PIC arena that include built in A/D, serial UARTs, EPROM space, and parallel I/O, all on a single chip. The BASIC interpreter built into the S TAMP products makes code run veeeerrrrryyyyy sllloooooowwwwwww, and is notoriously inefficient compared to assembly or compiled C. I've seen C compilers for $30 to $50 and PIC hardware for $10 and up in several magazines, best of which is Circuit Cellar Ink. They're on the Web at: www.circellar.com The Microchip Inc page (inventors of PIC processors is at: www.microchip.com Bottom line (I think) is that using a PIC seems to fly in the face of the basic tenet of BEAM: keep things as simple as possible......? Why would anyone want to gum up a simple and elegant BEAM 'bot with a cpu at all? enjoy, pk ------------ >If you just use a PIC chip rather than the fancier stamps, you can run it at a >slower clock frequency and use *much* less power. > >For example, a PIC16C84-04 run at 4MHz uses 4.5mA max and 1.8mA typically. >If you slow it down to 32KHz, you get 400uA max and 35uA typically. You >can shut it down into sleep mode, where it uses 100uA max, 1uA typical >(or 7uA typical if you use the watchdog timer). > >Maybe the stamps are similar... I wouldn't know, I haven't looked at them >much. > >Sometime when I get the time, I'd like to design a calculator solarcell >power supply for a PIC, so that it charges up a capacitor with the PIC >in sleep mode, and then wakes up, uses up the juice, and then goes back to >sleep. Unfortunately, I'm more a software guy than hardware, so it will >wait until I get a big hunk of time. > >Greg > > _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ Paul Klarer, Pres. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ PageMeister _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 3902 San Isidro NW, Suite C _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107 _/ _/ _/ pmeister@swcp.com _/ _/ _/ www.swcp.com/~pmeister/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.002272DD; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:16:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08863 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:05:45 -0700 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13307 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:00:58 -0500 Received: from dcp1-30.nc5.infi.net (dcp1-30.nc5.infi.net [207.2.241.30]) by fh101.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA24212 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970612010251.3ea795ba@nc5.infi.net> X-Sender: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:02:51 To: beam@webconn.com From: Terry Newton Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net From: wtnewton@nc5.infi.net Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/11/97 06:02:51 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 11:16:19 PM-06/11/97 11:16:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 11:16:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US As far as using PIC chips in robots... learn the assembly, as mentioned the stamps are very inefficient and the program store is limited. For less than $10 (provided you have a programmer) one can make a robot 'brain' with a standard 18 pin blank PIC plus some code. The circuit uses only two other 8-pin chips, one's an 8Kbyte eeprom for long-term memory, the other is just a 555. The software I used implements a simple learning algorithm that tries things at random or from memory then keeps track of what works and what doesn't. Details at: http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/otherwld/brainpcb.html pmeister@swcp.com (Paul Klarer) wrote: >Bottom line (I think) is that using a PIC seems to fly in the face of the >basic tenet of BEAM: keep things as simple as possible......? Why would >anyone want to gum up a simple and elegant BEAM 'bot with a cpu at all? There are hard-wired sensor arrangements I'm sure that can mimic a wide range of behaviors but they cannot adapt and remember. With a PIC between the senses and the microcore, It can learn how to manipulate the net to achieve the best sensory-motor mapping for whatever environment it's placed in (maybe...) My main motivations are it's cheap and easy... easier than trying to figure out the best hard-wired connections myself, and if a socket is used for the pic behavior changes can be programmed without the wear and tear of solder. It all depends on what your goals are. My goal is to make a self-sustaining wire-bits creature that has some personality. If a couple more chips will give it attitude and adaptability I'm highly tempted to find room. - Terry Newton $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00248500; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:38:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08942 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:28:25 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13402 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:14:22 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts70ip251.cadvision.com [207.228.75.251]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA209088 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:09:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970612001528.0073afc8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:15:28 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Return of "Herbie"... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_866117728==_" $FILE: SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Return of "Herbie"... PostedDate: 06/11/97 11:15:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/11/97 11:38:57 PM-06/11/97 11:38:58 PM DeliveredDate: 06/11/97 11:38:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Let it be known that Solarbotics (read that as "Dave") doesn't _just_ do BEAM. For one, I've got an ex-champ Sumobot which is undergoing autonomous conversion, and now, a "Herbie" lookalike with some changes. I wanted to try experimenting with optics, so with the (minor, almost insignificant ;-) aid of Richard "Miniball" Weait, I substituted IR Photodiodes. Here's our implementation if you care to try it - enjoy! -Dave - herbie.gif -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.003699E4; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:56:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA09115 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:45:57 -0700 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA13715 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:28:03 -0500 Received: from cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with SMTP (5.83--+1.3.1+0.51) id AA07433; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:27:39 +1000 (from phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au) Received: (from phr@localhost) by cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA02591 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:27:39 +1000 (EST) From: Philip ROKIC Message-Id: <199706120927.TAA02591@cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Starting Out To: beam@webconn.com (Beam) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:27:33 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au From: phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au Subject: Starting Out PostedDate: 06/12/97 02:27:33 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 02:56:34 AM-06/12/97 02:56:35 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 02:56:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey everyone, Just thought I'd say hi to everyone and introduce myself as a new (and slightly daunted) fan of robotics. My name's Phil Rokic, 22, I'm doing a mechatronics/comp. sci. course at Melbourne University, Victoria, Australia. My course is aimed at robotics, so I thought I might be able to learn a lot from all you established 'beamers' out there. My first question is....does anyone know if there's any sort of aussie contact for beam robots? What would be the best way to start going about building my first? I was thinking the sumobots comp. would be a brilliant competition to take part in, but I'm not sure if my budget extends to my imagination. Any words of wisdom?? Phil. phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.003F7B99; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:33:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA09192 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:22:58 -0700 Received: from server1.oxford.net (server1.oxford.net [205.206.241.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13882 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:01:55 -0500 Received: from DEFAULT (nnt-130.oxford.net [205.206.241.130]) by server1.oxford.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA02877 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706121102.HAA02877@server1.oxford.net> X-Sender: hendryjr@mailhost.oxford.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Iain Hendry Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... SMTPOriginator: hendryjr@oxford.net From: hendryjr@oxford.net Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... PostedDate: 06/12/97 04:02:53 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 04:33:31 AM-06/12/97 04:33:32 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 04:33:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Let it be known that Solarbotics (read that as "Dave") doesn't _just_ do >BEAM. For one, I've got an ex-champ Sumobot which is undergoing autonomous >conversion, and now, a "Herbie" lookalike with some changes. I wanted to >try experimenting with optics, so with the (minor, almost insignificant ;-) >aid of Richard "Miniball" Weait, I substituted IR Photodiodes. Here's our >implementation if you care to try it - enjoy! > >-Dave So to build that, I'd have to build a sollerengine of some sort and connect it to the + and - leads you put on your drawing? And then make the other circuit exactly like that? If those are IR photodiodes, what is this thing going after? Won't they ignore normal light? >-- >"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, >that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only >2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Clever :^) Iain ---------------------------------------- My address is: hendryjr@oxford.net My Roller Coaster Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr My Mighty Ducks Animated Series Homepage: http://www.oxford.net/~hendryjr/ducks.html Check 'em Out! ---------------------------------------- ReturnReceipt: 0 $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.0047D04B; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:04:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA09250 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:53:57 -0700 Received: from fw.sjha.org (fw.sjha.org [205.142.29.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14066 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:42:24 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by fw.sjha.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27134 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:42:21 -0400 Received: from unknown(170.59.10.26) by fw.sjha.org via smap (V1.3) id smaa27126; Thu Jun 12 08:42:11 1997 Received: by exch1.sjhatest.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC770B.C107F100@exch1.sjhatest.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:36:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: "McKenna, Chuck" To: "'Iain Hendry'" , "'Beam List'" Subject: RE: Return of "Herbie"... Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:36:41 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: CMcKenna2@sjha.org From: CMcKenna2@sjha.org Subject: RE: Return of "Herbie"... PostedDate: 06/12/97 05:36:41 AM SendTo: hendryjr@oxford.net,beam@webconn.com RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 06:04:30 AM-06/12/97 06:04:31 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 06:04:31 AM Categories: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US From the little I've played with IR stuff, the one thing I found is that there is PLENTY of IR in "normal light" (and you'd be suprised what IR will pass easily through) To filter visible light out (cheaply) I use black electrical tape. It lets IR through and blocks most of the visible. (Cardboard works too, though not as well.) -Chuck http://www.mindspring.com/~cmckenna Home Brew, Ham Radio and more >---------- >From: Iain Hendry[SMTP:hendryjr@oxford.net] >Sent: Thursday, June 12, 1997 7:02 AM >To: beam@webconn.com >Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... > >>Let it be known that Solarbotics (read that as "Dave") doesn't _just_ do >>BEAM. For one, I've got an ex-champ Sumobot which is undergoing autonomous >>conversion, and now, a "Herbie" lookalike with some changes. I wanted to >>try experimenting with optics, so with the (minor, almost insignificant ;-) >>aid of Richard "Miniball" Weait, I substituted IR Photodiodes. Here's our >>implementation if you care to try it - enjoy! >> >>-Dave > >So to build that, I'd have to build a sollerengine of some sort and connect >it to the + and - leads you put on your drawing? And then make the other >circuit exactly like that? If those are IR photodiodes, what is this thing >going after? Won't they ignore normal light? > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00488C9B; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:12:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA09264 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:01:59 -0700 Received: from mcmail.com (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14115 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:46:01 -0500 Received: from 195.44.19.8 by mcmail.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA14449; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:42:52 +0100 Message-ID: <339FFE28.5A39@mcmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:48:24 +0000 From: Merv Reply-To: mhuggett@mcmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Lerman CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers References: <2.2.16.19970609163440.3117b1fa@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mhuggett@mcmail.com From: mhuggett@mcmail.com Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers PostedDate: 06/12/97 06:48:24 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: mhuggett@mcmail.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 06:12:30 AM-06/12/97 06:12:31 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 06:12:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark Lerman wrote: > > Hello, > > I've located some great little motors, but Robbe, the company that sells > them has no US distributor at this time. They do, however, have a UK > distributor (mostly for the model helicopter stuff). Would it be possible > for someone in the UK to see if they could find Robbe part No. 4126? Robbe > calls it a 'Kleinstgetriebemotor' - it is 50RPM at 6 volts. The sample I > have draws only 10 ma at 6 volts. > > I would purchase 10-20 of them, depending on price, and would be happy to > pay by credit card if someone in the UK could find them. The information > below is from their 1 page web site http://www.robbe.com. > > Midland Helicopters > Trevor Wallinger > phone 011-44-455-637-762 > fax 011-44-455-619-348 > e-mail: trevor@midheli.co.uk > > I have sent Mr. Wallinger an email, but have had no reply so far. Thanks for > any help. > > Mark Lerman Mark, Sorry for delay in replying as I have to work!. I have found out some info which I hope will help. You can order the motors from "Sussex Model Centre" Worthing, West Sussex, UK. They are a robbe/Schluter agent and stock the Kleinstgetriebemotor with a 250:1 gearbox(The robbe part no. 4126 is correct) The cost is 20.99pounds sterling each plus post & packing (an arm and a leg or what?) If you require 10-20 as you indicated then robbe/Schluter UK will have to get them from Germany. Takes about 2 weeks. The Sussex Model Centre provide a worldwide mail order service so I suggest you contact them direct via www, email or phone. Web site - http://www3.mistral.co.uk/susmodcent/ Email - susmodcent@mistral.co.uk Tel - +44 1903 233817 or 207525 Hope this helps and keep on BEAMing. Merv $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00491B32; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:18:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA09282 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:08:01 -0700 Received: from fw.sjha.org (fw.sjha.org [205.142.29.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14264 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:59:56 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by fw.sjha.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27855 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:59:51 -0400 Received: from unknown(170.59.10.26) by fw.sjha.org via smap (V1.3) id sma027841; Thu Jun 12 08:59:38 1997 Received: by exch1.sjhatest.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC770E.34AD6E80@exch1.sjhatest.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:54:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: "McKenna, Chuck" To: "'Beam List'" Subject: Apologies (hopefully unnecessary) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:54:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: CMcKenna2@sjha.org From: CMcKenna2@sjha.org Subject: Apologies (hopefully unnecessary) PostedDate: 06/12/97 05:54:15 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 06:18:37 AM-06/12/97 06:18:38 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 06:18:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I left return receipt on when I sent my last post to the list. So far I've received around 25 receipts. If these are being posted to the list, my sincerest apologies. It was an accident. If they are not, please disregard this. I felt that the a preemptory apology was necessary in case I did screw up. Thanks, -Chuck $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.0049227E; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:18:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA09285 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:08:23 -0700 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14058 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:40:05 -0500 Received: from cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with SMTP (5.83--+1.3.1+0.51) id AA13480; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:39:59 +1000 (from phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au) Received: (from phr@localhost) by cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA09260 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:39:58 +1000 (EST) From: Philip ROKIC Message-Id: <199706121239.WAA09260@cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Introductions To: beam@webconn.com (Beam) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:39:58 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au From: phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au Subject: Introductions PostedDate: 06/12/97 05:39:58 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 06:18:58 AM-06/12/97 06:18:58 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 06:18:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey everyone, Just thought I'd say hi to everyone and introduce myself as a new (and slightly daunted) fan of robotics. My name's Phil Rokic, 22, I'm doing a mechatronics/comp. sci. course at Melbourne University, Victoria, Australia. My course is aimed at robotics, so I thought I might be able to learn a lot from all you established 'beamers' out there. My first question is....does anyone know if there's any sort of aussie contact for beam robots? What would be the best way to start going about building my first? I was thinking the sumobots comp. would be a brilliant competition to take part in, but I'm not sure if my budget extends to my imagination. Any words of wisdom?? Phil. phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00520518; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:55:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA09446 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:45:14 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14735 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:17:58 -0500 Received: from odi (asd06-08.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.169]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id QAA10561 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:17:44 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:20:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers In-Reply-To: <339FFE28.5A39@mcmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: need help from UK Beamers PostedDate: 06/12/97 07:20:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 07:55:55 AM-06/12/97 07:55:56 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 07:55:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Merv wrote: > You can order the motors from "Sussex Model Centre" Worthing, West > Sussex, UK. > > They are a robbe/Schluter agent and stock the Kleinstgetriebemotor with > a 250:1 gearbox(The robbe part no. 4126 is correct) The cost is > 20.99pounds sterling each plus post & packing (an arm and a leg or > what?) If you require 10-20 as you indicated then robbe/Schluter UK > will have to get them from Germany. Takes about 2 weeks. That price is about what Conrad charges in Dutch fl, for the same type of motor (see my earlier posting). In other words, Robbe is *three times* more expensive! Good Grief. By the way, I just got some photos of my little spider, powered by the 96.4:1 geared version of these motors. I hope to get it all up on my webpages this weekend. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.00538A17; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:12:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA09484 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:02:02 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14927 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:49:26 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts8ip34.cadvision.com [207.228.67.34]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id IAA142146; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:45:07 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970612085312.0073b51c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:53:12 -0600 To: Iain Hendry , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... In-Reply-To: <199706121102.HAA02877@server1.oxford.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... PostedDate: 06/12/97 07:53:12 AM SendTo: hendryjr@oxford.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 08:12:35 AM-06/12/97 08:12:36 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 08:12:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:02 AM 6/12/97 -0400, Iain Hendry wrote: >So to build that, I'd have to build a sollerengine of some sort and connect >it to the + and - leads you put on your drawing? And then make the other >circuit exactly like that? If those are IR photodiodes, what is this thing >going after? Won't they ignore normal light? Actually, as far as it being a true BEAM photovore (solar-powered), it ain't! It's just a battery-powered pig that I have a pair of solarcells continually charging thru a diode so I don't have to keep hooking it up to a charger. There are some styles of solarengine that would power this, but the regular "Type-1" using a flashing LED won't, as it needs the inductive "pull" of a motor to keep it going. You might be able to check out the Steven Bolt (et al) of solarengine that apparently can power other electronics directly (that correct, Steve?) if you want it to be true BEAM, but keep in mind that it runs very flakey when the system voltage runs below 2.6V. The IR photodiodes are just what I had on hand. They're almost black-looking to filter out regular daylight, that's all. I imagine I could wire in almost any photosensitive device (ie: Phototransistor) in there and it'd work with minor tweaks. After all, my implementation is just a variation on the original's use of CdS (photoresistor) sensors. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.0054925F; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:23:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA09544 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:13:18 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14928 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:49:27 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts8ip34.cadvision.com [207.228.67.34]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id IAA163888; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:45:05 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970612084707.0076f59c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:47:07 -0600 To: Philip ROKIC , beam@webconn.com (Beam) From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Starting Out In-Reply-To: <199706120927.TAA02591@cat.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Starting Out PostedDate: 06/12/97 07:47:07 AM SendTo: phr@students.cs.mu.oz.au,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 08:23:49 AM-06/12/97 08:23:50 AM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 08:23:50 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:27 PM 6/12/97 +1000, Philip ROKIC wrote: > My first question is....does anyone know if there's any > sort of aussie contact for beam robots? Well, from our client list I can tell you that we've sent two orders to Oz, and one to NZ, but that's it so far. Sorry I can't tell you who (confidentiallity), but at least you know there's three out of ...several million... you should be keeping an eye out for! ;-> > What would be > the best way to start going about building my first? Depends on your bend. You like Sumo? Build sumo. Like drag-racing? Build solaroller (which just happens to be cheaper, smaller, and a great learning platform). I'd say browse around the several BEAM sites up and see what strikes your fancy. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B4.0068D798; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:05:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA10598 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:54:19 -0700 Received: from vision.elee.calpoly.edu (vision.elee.calpoly.edu [129.65.26.115]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15576 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:11:32 -0500 Received: (from jcline@localhost) by vision.elee.calpoly.edu (8.6.10/ELEE) id LAA29647; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:11:13 -0700 From: Jonathan Message-Id: <199706121811.LAA29647@vision.elee.calpoly.edu> Subject: Cheap IR Filters (was Re: Return of "Herbie"...) To: CMcKenna2@sjha.org (McKenna Chuck) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hendryjr@oxford.net, beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: from "McKenna, Chuck" at Jun 12, 97 08:36:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: jcline@vision.elee.calpoly.edu From: jcline@vision.elee.calpoly.edu Subject: Cheap IR Filters (was Re: Return of "Herbie"...) PostedDate: 06/12/97 11:11:12 AM SendTo: CMcKenna2@sjha.org CopyTo: hendryjr@oxford.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/12/97 12:05:19 PM-06/12/97 12:05:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/12/97 12:05:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In _Electronic Design_, Dec. 2, 1996, p.120, there is an article on using 35mm film to make very cheap IR filters. I suggest anyone in need of IR filters look it up. They recommend buying Kodak Kodacolor 100 film and exposing it to flourescent light for 5 seconds. Then the film (just for the color negatives) is developed as normal. The developed negatives block out all visible light but passes all infrared >830nm and <950nm! > >From the little I've played with IR stuff, the one thing I found is that > there is PLENTY of IR in "normal light" (and you'd be suprised what IR > will pass easily through) To filter visible light out (cheaply) I use > black electrical tape. It lets IR through and blocks most of the > visible. (Cardboard works too, though not as well.) > > -Chuck > http://www.mindspring.com/~cmckenna > Home Brew, Ham Radio and more > >---------- > >From: Iain Hendry[SMTP:hendryjr@oxford.net] > >Sent: Thursday, June 12, 1997 7:02 AM > >To: beam@webconn.com > >Subject: Re: Return of "Herbie"... > > > >>Let it be known that Solarbotics (read that as "Dave") doesn't _just_ do > >>BEAM. For one, I've got an ex-champ Sumobot which is undergoing autonomous > >>conversion, and now, a "Herbie" lookalike with some changes. I wanted to > >>try experimenting with optics, so with the (minor, almost insignificant ;-) > >>aid of Richard "Miniball" Weait, I substituted IR Photodiodes. Here's our > >>implementation if you care to try it - enjoy! > >> > >>-Dave > > > >So to build that, I'd have to build a sollerengine of some sort and connect > >it to the + and - leads you put on your drawing? And then make the other > >circuit exactly like that? If those are IR photodiodes, what is this thing > >going after? Won't they ignore normal light? > > > > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.002EFB47; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:10:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA12651 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:00:12 -0700 From: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Received: from cs.utah.edu (cs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16854 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:39:35 -0500 Received: from sal.cs.utah.edu by cs.utah.edu (8.8.4/utah-2.21-cs) id BAA20208; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by sal.cs.utah.edu (8.8.4/utah-2.15sun-leaf) id BAA04194; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706130739.BAA04194@sal.cs.utah.edu> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? SMTPOriginator: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu From: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 12:39:27 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 01:10:53 AM-06/13/97 01:10:55 AM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 01:10:55 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US pmeister@swcp.com (Paul Klarer) wrote: >Bottom line (I think) is that using a PIC seems to fly in the face of the >basic tenet of BEAM: keep things as simple as possible......? Why would >anyone want to gum up a simple and elegant BEAM 'bot with a cpu at all? I guess the catch for me is that I'm a software guy. I like the simple and elegant electronics used in BEAM bots, but, to me, even simple hardware is very complex and tricky compared to a few pages of RISC assembly code. The solarengine is about as simple as you can get, yet it took a lot of asking of questions, reading databooks, reading radio shack intro to electronics books, breadboarding, and soldering (and de and re-soldering :) to understand it and get it to work. On the other hand, a friend and I banged out in a few hours a mini multitasking OS that generated 8 separate PWM outputs on a PIC chip. So, I balance cost and complexity, and even though a PIC chip might require a little more hardware and cost (~$10), it is simple for me because I can change the behavior without warming up a soldering iron. And just because it's a CPU doesn't mean that it has to be used as a deterministic brain... Though, I think my next project is going to be one of these new-fangled walkers everyone is talking about. I think I'll put off the PIC part of it until I get a creepy crawler walking forward. Greg $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.004A2B1A; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:30:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA13010 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:19:40 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17126 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:39:58 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA32497; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:39:42 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (zinc.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.97]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA21735; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:39:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33A14C98.390C@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:35:20 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org, stamps@parallaxinc.com Subject: Sensor Basics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Sensor Basics PostedDate: 06/13/97 06:35:20 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org,stamps@parallaxinc.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 06:30:17 AM-06/13/97 06:30:18 AM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 06:30:18 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Robots depend upon sensors to give them information about the "real world." These sensors detect a value, convert it to a measureable form, and scale its range. A Phototransistor, for example, converts light intensity into fluctuations of electrical current. By passing this current through a resistor, it becomes a measureable voltage. This web site and collection of books take the mystery out of sensor design and use: Sable Systems International Online Measurement Guide (18 pages) Discusses the most common sensors used in research: PH, temperature, light, pressure, humidity, and magnetic field. Although it isn't extremely detailed, it includes references to sensor suppliers. Use this information to learn the basics and then find more detailed material. http://www.sablesys.com/measure.html BOOKS WORTH LOOKING AT Sorry, the Internet does not have everything you need online. These hobbiest-level books provide good ideas for simple and inexpensive sensors. Although some circuits use older integrated circuits, the principles are important. Microcontroller applications, for example, may only need part of a circuit. Learn what can be done, and adapt the circuits to your application. The Transducer Project Book by Michael J. Andrews Published by TAB Books, Inc. ISBN 0-8306-1992-5 How to Design and Build Electronic Instrumentation by Joseph J. Carr Published by TAB Books, Inc. ISBN 0-8306-9910-4 The Forrest Mims' Circuit Scrapbook by Forrest Mims Published by McGraw-Hill Book Company ISBN 0-07-042389-X Forrest Mims' Circuit Scrapbook II by Forrest M. Mims, III Published by Howard W. Sams and Company ISBN 0-672-22552-2 Overall, Forrest Mims finds a novel way to use every semiconductor that exists. He designs inexpensive circuits, explains the theory, and shows practical applications. His books deserve a place on every experimenter's workbench. The Robot Builder's Bonanza: 99 Inexpensive Robotics Projects by Gordon McComb Published by TAB Books, Inc. ISBN 0-8306-2800-2 Mobile Robots: Inspiration to Implementation by Joseph L. Jones and Anita M. Flynn Published by AK Peters, Ltd. ISBN 1-56881-011-3 http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/anita/book.html If you're building a robot and haven't read the last two books, you deserve to have a hard time :-) Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.0057E48E; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:00:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA13368 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:49:34 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17390 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12302; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:32:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id IAA22530; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706131432.IAA22530@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? To: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <199706130739.BAA04194@sal.cs.utah.edu> from "galt@facility.cs.utah.edu" at Jun 13, 97 01:39:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 07:32:31 AM SendTo: galt@facility.cs.utah.edu CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 09:00:08 AM-06/13/97 09:00:09 AM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 09:00:09 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > pmeister@swcp.com (Paul Klarer) wrote: > >Bottom line (I think) is that using a PIC seems to fly in the face of the > >basic tenet of BEAM: keep things as simple as possible......? Why would > >anyone want to gum up a simple and elegant BEAM 'bot with a cpu at all? > > I guess the catch for me is that I'm a software guy. I like the simple > and elegant electronics used in BEAM bots, but, to me, even simple hardware > is very complex and tricky compared to a few pages of RISC assembly code. > The solarengine is about as simple as you can get, yet it took a lot of > asking of questions, reading databooks, reading radio shack intro to > electronics books, breadboarding, and soldering (and de and re-soldering :) > to understand it and get it to work. On the other hand, a friend and I > banged out in a few hours a mini multitasking OS that generated 8 separate > PWM outputs on a PIC chip. > But then again... I have taught 5 year olds to build solar rollers, 7 year olds to build photovores, and 12 year olds to build walkers. But writing a multitasking OS for a 12 year old would be tough, even with the books. These kids started with no background in electronics or programming. > > So, I balance cost and complexity, and even though a PIC chip might require > a little more hardware and cost (~$10), it is simple for me because I can > change the behavior without warming up a soldering iron. And just because > it's a CPU doesn't mean that it has to be used as a deterministic brain... > deterministic in the sense that it is dynamic as the sensors you put on it. Look at a nervous system, it is also then deterministic, it gathers stimuli integrates these stimuli and in combination responds (as a whole). Programming is very deterministic, much like a remote control. You can write much more 'AI-ish' type code, but it will not make the bots more 'life-like', just slower or more seemingly life-like. I think that CPU's are great... don't get me wrong. I would love to through a CPU on the bots eventually, but there is so much more to do and understand about the nervous system and to grow the nervous system, much like what you see in biology. (gradual development of a nervous system, gangli (proto-brain), and 'brains' (not CPUs till much later.. see now I cannot even think with out my computer (^8 ). > > Though, I think my next project is going to be one of these new-fangled > walkers everyone is talking about. I think I'll put off the PIC part of > it until I get a creepy crawler walking forward. > I would say put a pick on top of a walker is great.. The reason is that I would not waste the time trying to get something to move with a workable gate with a CPU, when you could do this in a the electronics and it would actually be much more dynamic. Then add a CPU on top to _influence_ the walking (turn right, left, higher step, and the basic commands). Not more dynamic, but much easier for people to control rather than let the bot interact with the enviroment. Much like a R/C walker or computer controlled walker. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.0060A8E2; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:35:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA13832 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:25:05 -0700 Received: from aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (aupair.cs.athabascau.ca [131.232.10.8]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17762 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:55:29 -0500 Received: from stud1.acad.athabascau.ca(really [131.232.11.44]) by aupair.cs.athabascau.ca via smtpd with smtp id for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Jun-10) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:57:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Ramsden X-Sender: markr@stud1.acad.athabascau.ca To: Beam Mailing List Subject: Computers to BEAM Was: Basic Stamps? In-Reply-To: <199706130739.BAA04194@sal.cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: markr@cs.athabascau.ca From: markr@cs.athabascau.ca Subject: Computers to BEAM Was: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 09:57:25 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 10:35:55 AM-06/13/97 10:35:56 AM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 10:35:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 galt@facility.cs.utah.edu wrote: > I guess the catch for me is that I'm a software guy. I like the simple > and elegant electronics used in BEAM bots, but, to me, even simple hardware > is very complex and tricky compared to a few pages of RISC assembly code. > The solarengine is about as simple as you can get, yet it took a lot of > asking of questions, reading databooks, reading radio shack intro to > electronics books, breadboarding, and soldering (and de and re-soldering :) > to understand it and get it to work. On the other hand, a friend and I > banged out in a few hours a mini multitasking OS that generated 8 separate > PWM outputs on a PIC chip. I think that there probably is a fair number of people who's main area of expertise is software who are trying to get into BEAM, and finding it tough. I think the main difficulty is that computers tend to be logical and linear where the analogue electronics aren't. I'm currently in the same boat; reading the electronics intro books and asking questions trying to understand the simplest circuits. (While at the same time trying to figure out Nv's because they're so interesting :>) As for the PIC chips being against BEAM philosophy, they could be fine depending on how you use them, just so long as you don't start calculating where to put what appendage in order to move forward. Using a chip to add a little direction to the already walking BEAMbot would be fine, I think, acting sort of like a simple cerebral cortex once the spine is working. Just my $0.02. Mark Ramsden $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.007839EA; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:53:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14610 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:42:28 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (alpha.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18140 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:40:54 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.245]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA227; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:37:54 -0400 Message-ID: <33A1A1F6.2789@logan.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:39:35 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) Organization: Digital Blitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, galt@facility.cs.utah.edu Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? References: <199706130739.BAA04194@sal.cs.utah.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 12:39:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,galt@facility.cs.utah.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 02:53:17 PM-06/13/97 02:53:18 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 02:53:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US galt@facility.cs.utah.edu wrote: > > pmeister@swcp.com (Paul Klarer) wrote: > >Bottom line (I think) is that using a PIC seems to fly in the face of the > >basic tenet of BEAM: keep things as simple as possible......? Why would > >anyone want to gum up a simple and elegant BEAM 'bot with a cpu at all? > > I guess the catch for me is that I'm a software guy. I like the simple > and elegant electronics used in BEAM bots, but, to me, even simple hardware > is very complex and tricky compared to a few pages of RISC assembly code. > The solarengine is about as simple as you can get, yet it took a lot of > asking of questions, reading databooks, reading radio shack intro to > electronics books, breadboarding, and soldering (and de and re-soldering :) > to understand it and get it to work. On the other hand, a friend and I > banged out in a few hours a mini multitasking OS that generated 8 separate > PWM outputs on a PIC chip. > > So, I balance cost and complexity, and even though a PIC chip might require > a little more hardware and cost (~$10), it is simple for me because I can > change the behavior without warming up a soldering iron. And just because > it's a CPU doesn't mean that it has to be used as a deterministic brain... > > Though, I think my next project is going to be one of these new-fangled > walkers everyone is talking about. I think I'll put off the PIC part of > it until I get a creepy crawler walking forward. > > Greg I personally don't see a conflict to using basic stamps or pic micro-controllers as an additional control layer for BEAM robots. I know some of you will consider me a heretic for this, but it you take the anology of the nervious net as a spinal cord then it almost screams for some type of "higher function controller", ie: a brain. The nervious net is already very good at mimicing low level behavior and responding to its enviroment dynamically. Why not use the controller to add higher level logic, "goals, desires, drives..." to our creations. I am a little biased here because most of my work has been in interfacing NV walkers to digital controllers of one type or another. I have had great success interfacing the walker to a dedicated 386 computer(about $50 complete used), using an interface board of my own creation and infrared light pulses for data transmission. These are not mutually exclusive areas of robotics. The nervious net concept is expanding at an astounding rate due largely to the efforts of people on this mailing list. Interfacing this technology with more conventional robotics just makes good sense. You do not want to override or bypass what the nervious net already does so well, but for sensor integration and walking gate control the controller wins hands down because because you can reprogram it instead of rebuilding if your first ideas don't work just right. Just my thoughts on the subject. I would welcome debate from anyone else, I don't claim I'm right just that this is how i'm doing it. David Miller $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.007ED56F; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:05:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14958 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:54:54 -0700 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (fuzzgun.demon.co.uk [194.222.137.155]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18291 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:38:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:11:13 GMT From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (Bob Mottram) Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <1006@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Computers to BEAM Was: Basic Stamps? X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 12 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Computers to BEAM Was: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 01:11:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 04:05:25 PM-06/13/97 04:05:25 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 04:05:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I don't think that the BEAM philosophy in any way precludes the blatant use of computation. However, one of the main points demonstrated by the BEAM approach is that in some areas (such as walking) computation is either not required, is unneccessarily complicated, or provides a level of abstraction where important information about the environment is lost. I think there are areas of BEAM where processing power might be intelligently used, such as navigation, collection of data and inter-robot communications. -- Bob Mottram "did he teach ya what is tought ya" www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B5.007ED64E; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:05:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14963 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:54:56 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18274 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:30:52 -0500 Received: from vapor.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@vapor.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.131]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12491 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:30:46 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by vapor.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA24936 for beam@webconn.com; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706132030.OAA24936@vapor.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Basic stamp versus a brain To: beam@webconn.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:30:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Basic stamp versus a brain PostedDate: 06/13/97 01:30:45 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 04:05:25 PM-06/13/97 04:05:26 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 04:05:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just thought I would try to clear something up.... I have no problem with people plopping on a CPU. I think it is a great way to simplify having a human control a device... But it is _definetly_ NOT like a brain. (If people are interested I could write up a page explaining what a brain is and how it works, You can have memory in Nervous Nets, but it will take some time to develop, step by step, before we get to a brain level. If there is interest I will write up some WWW pages but it will take me a few weeks to write up something decent). A brain is a dynamic functional concept. It is really a system versus a device, in fact it is a nervous network. Now what is a CPU? (Granted SGI/and Cray CPUs are good (^8 ...) but basically CPU's are slow for doing real-time dynamic control. The CPU and program basically turn your robot into a R/C car with computer control. It is a cool thing to use if you want to control a device to do what you want to do...but not as good at the robot having itself explore and react to its enviroment. That said... I think it is GREAT to go ahead and plop a CPU on a robot. But a brain it is not... Nervous nets (biologically) are much closer to brains than a CPU and someones code (which is basically a set of predetermined actions to given stimuli, perhaps with some integration of the stimuli to get given responses or probability of a response). Take a look at Genetic Algorithms, however they will be very slow on a Basic Stamp. http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/robot.html - Talks about complex/chaotic/non-linear systems also. - Also I can give you pointers to Genetic Algorithms. Suggestions though... Let the Nervous net control the body and immediate reactions like: - Obstacle avoidance (specifically for sure and bump sensors) - Basic walking gaits - Nervous net walkers can have multiple goals * seek out light - longer term * avoid obstacles - short term/immediate reaction * walking ... CPU: - Great for many competitions where the world is fairly static. - Take in sensor input also.. integrate sensors * obstacles (map out the room by the obstacles) * light sensing.. (where is the light in the room) - __Influence__ walking based on previous light or obstacles * Remember real enviroments are dynamic ( the light and obstacles could easily move). Don't trust they are still in the same place. - ?? Integrate vision here or on the nervous net.. - Or to go through a standard maze like the very static fire fighting competition... Where everything is fixed, CPU's are better at this, because everything is predetermined and static. It is not that bad of a sin to use CPUs (^8... Actually maybe you should use a MIPS chip (^8 ... I can probably get a good deal in quanity...(^8 Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B6.000426E7; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:45:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15336 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:34:54 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18412 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:15:23 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA02945 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02736; Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:14:52 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33A1A1F6.2789@logan.net> References: <199706130739.BAA04194@sal.cs.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:17:35 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Basic Stamps? PostedDate: 06/13/97 03:17:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 05:45:26 PM-06/13/97 05:45:27 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 05:45:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Let me just state for the record that processors are not incompatable with BEAM philosophy in any way, and if people are more comfortable programming then great. Use what you know any way you can. I submit though that BEAM tech can significantly increase your chances of a successful first-time cool-bot, so please give it a gander before you leap straight to putting legs on a laptop. I am convinced that despite the common wisdom to the contrary, good programming cannot make up for bad mechanics, and that the basic principles acquired in building a BEAM machine will give you a high-probability success against which you can assess program operation. An ugly truth, but it is accurate. Many try to build a uP based robot right off and become so disillusioned that they never attempt another. Been there, done that. BEAM tech is designed to bypass most of the first-time horrors to increase the chances that an amateur will become a roboticist, and not just another simulation junkie. I can build my own robots, what I can't build is roboticists. That's what the BEAM philosophy is all about. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B6.0006A85A; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:12:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA15412 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:02:15 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18880 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:44:03 -0500 Received: from [206.25.228.222] (dialup03.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.222]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26662 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:58:35 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:47:49 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) Subject: Re: Basic stamp versus a brain: Genetic Algorithms SMTPOriginator: bushbo@xtdl.com From: bushbo@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Basic stamp versus a brain: Genetic Algorithms PostedDate: 06/13/97 05:47:49 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 06:12:49 PM-06/13/97 06:12:50 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 06:12:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all. >That said... I think it is GREAT to go ahead and plop a CPU on >a robot. But a brain it is not... Nervous nets (biologically) >are much closer to brains than a CPU and someones code (which is >basically a set of predetermined actions to given stimuli, perhaps >with some integration of the stimuli to get given responses or >probability of a response). Take a look at Genetic Algorithms, From my experience with evolutionary systems, I don't believe you could create a Von Neumann-based system (at the current level of algorithmic tech) that was adaptable as a nonlinear-analog nervous network. I would follow that until we have evolutionary evolution (who teaches the teacher), we won't see _really_ complex adaptable systems--such as handling a wide range of stimuli and mapping to somewhat logical responses. For BEAMers like me, I will stick to sending soil pH data back to the landing pod and then to NASA with the PIC processors. :) Cheers, Brian --- brian o bush, gearhead "the moment of terror is the beginning of life." carve down to http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B6.00077F32; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:21:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA15432 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:11:21 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18718 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:50:26 -0500 Received: from ts17ip104.cadvision.com (ts47ip190.cadvision.com [207.228.72.190]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id RAA194960 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:46:08 -0600 Received: by ts17ip104.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC7821.BADB0120@ts17ip104.cadvision.com>; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:46:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC7821.BADB0120@ts17ip104.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: BEAM: Possible 2nd Gen Idea's Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:46:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: BEAM: Possible 2nd Gen Idea's PostedDate: 06/13/97 04:46:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 06:22:00 PM-06/13/97 06:22:01 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 06:22:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US This may sound a bit strange but I think some one should incorporate a Nintendo or Sega system into a robot. The reason why is because with nintendo, they can hold 8 MB of data ( around 100MB if it is compressed) in their "cart's". The CD-ROM game systems take a lot of loading time. Power and time made me eliminate CD-ROMs as a add-on. What I'm getting to is that If a robot using an Nv had a area where cartridges could be put in with maps of area's, or have the robot make a map of the area that it walked around. Robots programming themselves to survive in many different environments and adapting would make it so you don't have to make 100's of specific terrain. Mark Tilden's Big Man robot has some memory from what I have heard, if Mark's Big Man had more storage space, then it might be able to search out other area's besides an office. I'm expecting that he has all ready thought of this and is building it right now... Devin Hyndman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B6.00094086; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:41:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA15463 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:30:30 -0700 Received: from mail.istar.ca (iSTAR.ca [204.191.136.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18921 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:52:58 -0500 Received: from rgyates [198.53.7.158] by mail.istar.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #10) id 0wch68-0003LI-00; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:53:44 -0400 From: "rgyates" To: Subject: unsubscribe Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:23:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: SMTPOriginator: rgyates@istar.ca From: rgyates@istar.ca Subject: unsubscribe PostedDate: 06/04/97 05:23:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/13/97 06:41:13 PM-06/13/97 06:41:13 PM DeliveredDate: 06/13/97 06:41:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B6.006DFEE1; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:01:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16229 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:50:48 -0700 Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19971 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:21:43 -0500 Received: from darthvader (user-38lc97j.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.36.243]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18537 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970614152325.00931ec0@atl.mindspring.com> X-Sender: cmckenna@atl.mindspring.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:23:35 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Chuck McKenna Subject: Pesky little pager motor weights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: robotman@mckennanet.com From: robotman@mckennanet.com Subject: Pesky little pager motor weights PostedDate: 06/14/97 12:23:35 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/14/97 01:01:32 PM-06/14/97 01:01:33 PM DeliveredDate: 06/14/97 01:01:33 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I recently aquired several pager motors. The only problem is that they have these pesky little weights on them. Does anyone have any tips on removing them? I've already trashed one motor by trying just to yank the thing off. Later, -Chuck McKenna (KF4JPE) http://www.mindspring.com/~cmckenna Homebrew, Ham Radio, and more! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.00128757; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:22:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16572 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:11:50 -0700 From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20324 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:43:01 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA03771 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614224256_-826570725@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: MicroCore And Motors? SMTPOriginator: ProMacPrg@aol.com From: ProMacPrg@aol.com Subject: MicroCore And Motors? PostedDate: 06/14/97 07:42:57 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/14/97 08:22:33 PM-06/14/97 08:22:34 PM DeliveredDate: 06/14/97 08:22:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, How do you set up the microcore circuit in order for it to only have 4 outputs instead of the normal six? What part do you remove or what do you do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Timothy Deterly ProMacPrg@aol.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.001D9D70; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:23:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA16697 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:12:55 -0700 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20534 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:25:35 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6.Beta3) id XAA18887; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:25:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (prosaurolophus.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.221]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA07203; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:25:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33A37BD1.3944@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:21:21 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Electrostatic robot cooler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Electrostatic robot cooler PostedDate: 06/14/97 10:21:21 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/14/97 10:23:39 PM-06/14/97 10:23:40 PM DeliveredDate: 06/14/97 10:23:40 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The Yuma proving grounds, in Arizona, has proven to be a hostile environment for robots. In his UXO detection paper, Mark W. Tilden, researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory, describes the area: The Yuma terrain is excessively hot during the day (140 degrees F. nominal ground temperature, 165 degrees max.) and freezing at night, excessively alkaline soils and fine sands, over fourteen types of complex desert terrain including cliffs and rock mesas, high airborne humidity (80% nominal), dust-laden winds, harsh vegetation (Barrel cactus to Spineweed), and occupied by rattlesnakes, scorpions, wild horses, and fifty years worth of military scrap metal. Because of the hazard, researchers are developing ways to find the unexploded ordnance within the proving grounds. Tilden says that "many other computer-based approaches have generally failed." Some of his walker robots, unfortunately, were also affected during half-day tests. Oscar C. Blomgren, Jr. may have found a way to keep robots cool. As described in his US patents and shown in many demonstrations, he uses electrostatic cooling. His system drops the temperature of copper strips from 1100 degrees F. to 300 degrees within a few seconds. It also prevents Kleenex from being burned by a propane torch. Electrostatic cooling can be inexpensively added to outdoor robots. Whenever they become to hot, a simple high-voltage inverter module could charge their shells. It must provide NEGATIVE 15-40 Kilovolts at low current. The shell could also self-generate the charge if it was made with materials that generate static electricity. The triboelectric series should provide some ideas. What are the potential problems? Besides not working in high humidity, the charge may generate ESD that could damage the onboard electronics. This problem, however, could be solved by neuralizing the charge within the robot. Finally, humans would need to protect themselves from shocks. REFERENCES Oscar C. Blomgren's electrostatic cooling patents USP #3,224,497 Method and Apparatus for Lowering the Temperature of a Heated Body USP #3,872,917 Cooling Apparatus and Method for Heat Exchangers "Incredible New Probe Puts the Freeze on Hot Spots-Instantly" by E. F. Lindsley Popular Science (year unknown) Yuma Proving Grounds Automatic UXO Detection Using Biomorphic Robots by Mark W. Tilden at Los Alamos National Laboratory This paper is another excellent introduction to Biomorphic robots. It shows how computer-less robots can perform practical tasks in a hostile environment. With twelve-transistor Nervous Network controllers, these robots walk through the area, locate, and tag ordnance. http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam/mines/minesweep.html Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.001DAA2A; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:24:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA16700 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:13:31 -0700 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20570 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:32:44 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6.Beta3) id XAA19142; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:32:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (prosaurolophus.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.67.221]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA09932; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:32:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33A37E63.5B74@execpc.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:32:19 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ProMacPrg@aol.com CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: MicroCore And Motors? References: <970614224256_-826570725@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Re: MicroCore And Motors? PostedDate: 06/14/97 10:32:19 PM SendTo: ProMacPrg@aol.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/14/97 10:24:09 PM-06/14/97 10:24:10 PM DeliveredDate: 06/14/97 10:24:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ProMacPrg@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, > How do you set up the microcore circuit in order for it to only have 4 > outputs instead of the normal six? What part do you remove or what do you > do? Andrew Miller explains how to setup a four Nv walker on his web site. You'll find the tutorial starting on this page: http://www.golden.net/~amiller/what.htm The section "Interfacing the Microcore with Leg Motors" should show you how to rewire your Microcore. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.002A5E88; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:42:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16769 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:32:18 -0700 Received: from geocities.com (mail3.geocities.com [204.7.246.133]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20875 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:04:11 -0500 Received: from pentium (ip219.vancouver.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.120.219]) by geocities.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27579 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970615000102.006a4b68@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: bruteforce@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:01:02 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Adrian Yee Subject: Re: Pesky little pager motor weights In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970614152325.00931ec0@atl.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bruteforce@geocities.com From: bruteforce@geocities.com Subject: Re: Pesky little pager motor weights PostedDate: 06/15/97 12:01:02 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/15/97 12:42:57 AM-06/15/97 12:42:58 AM DeliveredDate: 06/15/97 12:42:58 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Chuck (and Everyone else...), One thing I've tried, and kinda works is to grind it to the right size using a bench grinder. Just run the pager motor using a AA battery and grind the weight smaller and smaller until it is the right size. I'm not sure if it damages the motor, but it worked for me. Just make sure that you grind it evenly and not to grind too much at a time (I think you may burn it out or something like that...). Adrian Yee At 03:23 PM 14/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>> I recently aquired several pager motors. The only problem is that they have these pesky little weights on them. Does anyone have any tips on removing them? I've already trashed one motor by trying just to yank the thing off. Later, -Chuck McKenna (KF4JPE) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.002EEF46; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:06:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16772 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:55:29 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20934 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:23:31 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts70ip242.cadvision.com [207.228.75.242]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id BAA194944; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:19:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970614141021.00c26ddc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:10:21 -0600 To: Chuck McKenna , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Pesky little pager motor weights In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970614152325.00931ec0@atl.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Pesky little pager motor weights PostedDate: 06/14/97 01:10:21 PM SendTo: robotman@mckennanet.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/15/97 01:06:22 AM-06/15/97 01:06:23 AM DeliveredDate: 06/15/97 01:06:23 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:23 PM 6/14/97 -0400, Chuck McKenna wrote: >I recently aquired several pager motors. The only problem is that they >have these pesky little weights on them. > >Does anyone have any tips on removing them? I've already trashed one motor >by trying just to yank the thing off. Cool. Didja save the motor shaft? Good. Now, grip your next motor BY THE WEIGHT in a vise, and use this shaft & a small hammer to punch the motor down and out of the weight from above. Done literally hundreds this way before I got a little gear-puller device made. Then we went and bought a bajillion pager motors brand-new without the weights (sigh). Obsolete tool.... (no, you can't have it ;-> -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B7.0036C5DE; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:58:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA16815 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:47:46 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21168 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 04:32:48 -0500 Received: from odi (asd01-21.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.22]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id LAA08825 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:32:44 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:35:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: The Spider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: The Spider PostedDate: 06/15/97 02:35:17 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/15/97 02:58:26 AM-06/15/97 02:58:27 AM DeliveredDate: 06/15/97 02:58:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark T. has said: > I am convinced that despite the common wisdom to the contrary, good > programming cannot make up for bad mechanics I couldn't agree more. When you look at the mechanical superiority of even a simple ant, you have to concede that present robots have such primitive, clumsy bodies that it hardly matters what brain you put in. Advancing the state of the art can't be done overnight, so we just have to make do, while improving our mechatronical skills. You may be interested in my latest Spider: two motors, eight legs, good mobility, easy to build and cheap. He will carry any `brain' you care to put on its back - if it's not too heavy :) http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-spider.html I think the photos are rather nice. Best, Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B8.000E58E5; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:36:42 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA17427 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:26:12 -0700 Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21672 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:05:42 -0500 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA31818; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:05:32 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (ribos-27.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.72.186]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA24782; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:05:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33A4ACB2.4561@execpc.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:02:10 -0700 From: "Michael A. Tyborski" Organization: WebWerx X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net CC: mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Walker Invasion #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: webwerx@execpc.com From: webwerx@execpc.com Subject: Walker Invasion #2 PostedDate: 06/15/97 08:02:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net CopyTo: mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/15/97 07:36:48 PM-06/15/97 07:36:48 PM DeliveredDate: 06/15/97 07:36:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US More and more people are building walker robots each week. These web sites can help you become one of them soon. Steven Bolt just posted a note about his "Spider" robot on the BEAM list. His web site shows the eight-leg robot and includes construction details. It also has performance data, parts supplier information, and close-up photos. Including the controller and freight charges, you can build the robot for under $50. For the non-BEAMERs, here is the start of his write-up: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-spider.html After the "Walker Invasion" post, Kevin Krauel (kbkrauel@kingcong.uwaterloo.ca) persuaded me to look at this site: Microprocessor Controlled Autonomous Modular Walking Vehicle http://real.uwaterloo.ca:80/~robot/ The home page, interestingly, mentions BEAM robotics and says the NASA Space Telerobotics program likes this site. In fact, it boasts "Cool Robot Site of the Week" status now. The developers should receive credit for putting their final report online. It's in HTML format and includes software, schematics, and CAD drawings. This type of information makes the Web useful for all researchers. Cheers, Michael A. Tyborski WebWerx Milwaukee, WI $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B8.00442D1A; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:24:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA17860 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:14:09 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22301 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:27:57 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco4-185.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.185]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA12612; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A523A1.1D8B@golden.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:29:37 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael A. Tyborski" CC: beam@webconn.com, tcrobots@orbis.net, mars-talk@footfalls.com, srs@seattlerobotics.org Subject: Re: Walker Invasion #2 References: <33A4ACB2.4561@execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Walker Invasion #2 PostedDate: 06/16/97 04:29:37 AM SendTo: webwerx@execpc.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com,tcrobots@orbis.net,mars-talk@footfalls.com,srs@seattlerobotics.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 05:24:42 AM-06/16/97 05:24:43 AM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 05:24:43 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Microprocessor Controlled Autonomous Modular Walking Vehicle > http://real.uwaterloo.ca:80/~robot/ > I met these guys when they first started building the thing.... One pair of legs weighs more than 4 or five of my bigest robots... Dosn't carry much for its own battiries (about 4 min worth I believe) Some Great effort in the machine shop (I wish I had that resource) They are using low quality HIGH current motors so the usfulness and liftime are limited... But hey It walks which is more than I can say for a lot of similar designs I've seen.... They got some Down and Dirty code wich is nice to see also.. all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B8.007F7BCD; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:12:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA20602 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:01:48 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23310 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:28:29 -0500 Received: from butch.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@butch.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.119]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22428; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:28:22 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by butch.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id PAA06953; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706162128.PAA06953@butch.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: unsubscribe To: SoundGuy1@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Cc: rgyates@istar.ca, beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <970616170207_-661925096@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "SoundGuy1@aol.com" at Jun 16, 97 05:04:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: unsubscribe PostedDate: 06/16/97 02:28:21 PM SendTo: SoundGuy1@aol.com CopyTo: rgyates@istar.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 04:12:31 PM-06/16/97 04:12:32 PM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 04:12:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Okay.. you tried to unsubscribe exactly: 16 Jun 1997 17:03:50 -0400 And retried: 16 Jun 1997 17:04:48 -0400 But the messages were not delivered from your host until: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:04:19 -0600 and Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:14:01 -0600 respectively. (Note your sectond message was recieved first from the server first). And there were _NO_ new messages between these times, my guess is your mail server was messed up. AGAIN!!!!! ALL subscribe/unsubscribe message are to be sent to and _ONLY_ to beam-request@webconn.com. My points are... 1. It may be your e-mail servers slowing things down 2. If you send to the entire list: a. You will piss off a lot of people b. You will NOT get it done any faster (in fact it will be slower!) Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B8.007FD059; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:16:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA20611 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:05:26 -0700 From: SoundGuy1@aol.com Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23203 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:04:55 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA19331; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970616170207_-661925096@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: rgyates@istar.ca, beam@webconn.com Subject: unsubscribe SMTPOriginator: SoundGuy1@aol.com From: SoundGuy1@aol.com Subject: unsubscribe PostedDate: 06/16/97 02:04:48 PM SendTo: rgyates@istar.ca,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 04:16:15 PM-06/16/97 04:16:15 PM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 04:16:15 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US ok.... i tried it your way but i'm still on the list....... unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe i love the group... but its flooding my email..... $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.0005EF4A; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:04:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21116 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:54:12 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (alpha.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23657 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:01:59 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.250]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA137 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:57:51 -0400 Message-ID: <33A5D3D6.54AE@logan.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:01:26 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) Organization: Digital Blitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: My web site is finally up. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: My web site is finally up. PostedDate: 06/16/97 05:01:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 06:04:59 PM-06/16/97 06:05:00 PM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 06:05:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just to let everyone know my web site is now up and my page of BEAM robotics is partially working. I will be adding pictures and circuit diagrams as soon as I can, but the basic discussion of interfacing basic stamps and NV nets is up. I'd appreciate ant feedback anyone is willing to give me and I'll try to answer questions by posting updates to the web site and this mailing list. David Miller $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.0006579B; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:09:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21119 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:58:36 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (alpha.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23667 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:05:29 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.250]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA203 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:01:37 -0400 Message-ID: <33A5D4B8.6E83@logan.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:05:12 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) Organization: Digital Blitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: new web site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: new web site PostedDate: 06/16/97 05:05:12 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 06:09:24 PM-06/16/97 06:09:25 PM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 06:09:25 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just to let everyone know my web site is now up and my page of BEAM robotics is partially working. I will be adding pictures and circuit diagrams as soon as I can, but the basic discussion of interfacing basic stamps and NV nets is up. I'd appreciate ant feedback anyone is willing to give me and I'll try to answer questions by posting updates to the web site and this mailing list. David Miller Sorry about that the URL is: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Park/2319/ Thanks again, Dave $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.00259255; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:50:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA21453 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:39:52 -0700 Received: from jaguar.net ([204.250.250.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA24383 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:05:46 -0500 Received: by jaguar.net with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:02:43 -0700 Received: from BOX2/SpoolDir by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 16 Jun 97 23:03:24 +800 Received: from SpoolDir by BOX2 (Mercury 1.21); 16 Jun 97 23:03:16 +800 Received: from dial4.jaguar.net by email.scrnet.com (Mercury 1.21); 16 Jun 97 23:03:15 +800 X-Sender: aserl@email.scrnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:05:02 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: Alan Serl Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Solar Panels] Cc: Mulder2554@aol.com Message-ID: <1E13E9D10E0@email.scrnet.com> SMTPOriginator: aserl@scrnet.com From: aserl@scrnet.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Solar Panels] PostedDate: 06/16/97 11:05:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: Mulder2554@aol.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/16/97 11:50:26 PM-06/16/97 11:50:27 PM DeliveredDate: 06/16/97 11:50:27 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:48 AM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know of any place(s) where I could buy or get solor cells and >motors in Reno Nevada? I heard that small motors from cars could be >used.(windshield wipers, electric seats, ect.) Thanks. > > >Christian > Not in Reno but grab a copy of "Nuts and Volts', there are several suppliers or surplus gear in each issue. Alan Serl - Owner Serl Computer Research aserl@scrnet.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.00496213; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:21:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA21758 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:11:01 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24727 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:51:17 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco4-189.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.189]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA06244; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A67AC9.4406@golden.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:53:45 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Serl CC: beam@webconn.com, Mulder2554@aol.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Solar Panels] References: <1E13E9D10E0@email.scrnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id GAA24727 SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Solar Panels] PostedDate: 06/17/97 04:53:45 AM SendTo: aserl@scrnet.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com,Mulder2554@aol.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 06:21:48 AM-06/17/97 06:21:48 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 06:21:48 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > >motors in Reno Nevada? I heard that small motors from cars could be > >used.(windshield wipers, electric seats, ect.) Thanks. Only If your solar cell is about the size of a MiniVan... Automotive motors are VERY power hungy and Heavy too... The smallest least hungy motor in a car will be the Washer pump motor and they typically take 300mA just to kick over... They also go about 20,000 rpm, thats why you get the Whine when you wash your windows.... don't get me wrong Automotive motors arn't completely usless.... They are readily available at wreking yards everywhere which is a plus .... One of my Firsts robots (8 years before I'd even heard of BEAM) was built with Wiper motors.... Lots of power (I used to stand on it and drive it around) but they need a Full size car battery to do much of use.... They also have worm drives on them... Which athough they pack a High gear ratio into a small space they are notoriously ineffish...... So if you are looking for BEAM type motors a car isn't the place... If you wanna built a 4' high manipulator arm on a mobile base(exactly what I built) then go to it my man.... just my 2¢ all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.00587BC1; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:06:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22226 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:55:52 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25292 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:47:33 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA10107 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id IAA26138 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:47:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33A5D4B8.6E83@logan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:47:35 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: new web site SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: new web site PostedDate: 06/17/97 07:47:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 09:06:37 AM-06/17/97 09:06:38 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 09:06:39 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 8:05 PM -0400 6/16/97, David Miller wrote: >Just to let everyone know my web site is now up and my page of BEAM >robotics is partially working. I will be adding pictures and circuit ... > David Miller > >Sorry about that the URL is: >http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Park/2319/ >Thanks again, Dave "Your local time" is an hour off with respect to my time (9:40 rather than 8:40). Given that you start downloading sound without warning (which isn't exactly fun in a quiet office environment) you ought to at least provide the ability to turn it off. Since the sound takes forever to download the page (graphics and sound and all) because it is so complicated, I really didn't stick around to see if it actually had some BEAM stuff on it. Finally, your page wedged the copy of Netscape 3 Gold I was running. Sorry Dave. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.005A9601; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:29:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22326 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:18:50 -0700 Received: from ns.webconn.com (ns.webconn.com [206.42.142.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25336 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:00:00 -0500 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by ns.webconn.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA24063 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:59:53 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA10542 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id IAA26411 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:49:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:49:46 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: new web site SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: new web site PostedDate: 06/17/97 07:49:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 09:29:35 AM-06/17/97 09:29:36 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 09:29:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Since the sound takes forever to download the page (graphics and sound and >all) because it is so complicated, Geez. Where did my ability to write comprehensible English go? Sorry... Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.005EF849; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:17:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22637 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:06:14 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25476 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:49:26 -0500 Received: from odi (asd07-09.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.202]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id RAA03487 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:49:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:51:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Geared motors In-Reply-To: <33A5D4B8.6E83@logan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Geared motors PostedDate: 06/17/97 08:51:43 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 10:17:23 AM-06/17/97 10:17:24 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 10:17:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US High quality, low power geared motors tend to be expensive or hard to find. Therefore I'd like to quote a tip I've just added to my Webpage: These gears are found in a low-priced package from Conrad, which contains 40 large gearwheels (20 red and 20 white, each with 50 and 10 teeth) and 8 small ones (10 teeth), and costs Dutch fl 11.95 (about 6 dollars). The Catalog number is: 29 77 04-44 By the way, I cut the red 10-teeth gearwheels shown off the 50/10 type, because they accept 3 mm brass pipe in their shaft holes. So the 8 small gears in the package weren't used. But they fit perfectly on the 2 mm shaft of most small motors, like those found in cassette recorders! Small cassette recorders contain very high quality, very low power motors, often doing useful work at 1V and 20mA or less. Using the simple Spider way of making gear trains, a couple of geared motors might cost you very few dollars. By the way: Conrad sells another package, containing just 20 gearwheels in more varied sizes, costing about $3. Cat. number 29 74 02-44 I only have Conrads Dutch address, but that may well work for you. Conrad Electronic Nederland BV Postbus 12 7500 AA Enschede The Netherlands Information: (31) 053-4285444 Fax: (31) 053-4283075 If not, and if there is sufficient interest, maybe Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics) is willing to stock these items. He is already selling microcassette mechanisms, with nice motors on them... Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.00621103; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:51:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22862 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:40:30 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25694 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:41:39 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts1ip38.cadvision.com [207.228.66.38]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id KAA214194; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:37:09 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970617103357.00689cd8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:33:57 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Geared motors In-Reply-To: References: <33A5D4B8.6E83@logan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Geared motors PostedDate: 06/17/97 09:33:57 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 10:51:14 AM-06/17/97 10:51:15 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 10:51:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:51 PM 6/17/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >If not, and if there is sufficient interest, maybe Dave Hrynkiw >(Solarbotics) is willing to stock these items. He is already >selling microcassette mechanisms, with nice motors on them... It's something we're considering, but we've got our plate full (and accounts empty!) bringing in a new size of solarcell (stay tuned for details in July). We're keeping an eye open for good gearmotors, so I'll file this under my "to follow up" file. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.006345A6; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:04:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22927 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:53:37 -0700 Received: from draconis.spd.louisville.edu (draconis.spd.louisville.edu [136.165.99.35]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25617 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:27:36 -0500 Received: (from aohamm01@localhost) by draconis.spd.louisville.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28470 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anthony O. Hammond" Message-Id: <199706171627.MAA28470@draconis.spd.louisville.edu> Subject: Here's an idea! To: beam@webconn.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:27:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: aohamm01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu From: aohamm01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu Subject: Here's an idea! PostedDate: 06/17/97 09:27:45 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 11:04:31 AM-06/17/97 11:04:32 AM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 11:04:32 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey. Here's an idea... How about we keep the criricisms on a personal basis, and stop loading that crap into EVERYbody's mailbox. whaddya think??? Sorry J.A.V, but I didn't join this list-serv to hear that you are at work not working, and then listen to you criticize the guy's (David Miller's) efforts. If you really have something that you just MUST get out, how about writing to the e-mail address after the word "SENDER." You are not the first, but it would be nice if our mail boxes were filled with BEAM stuff, and not crap that means nothing to 99.9999% of the rest of us. thankyou. Tony H. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.0068C8A9; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:04:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA23299 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:53:59 -0700 Received: from user.xtdl.com (user.xtdl.com [206.25.228.20]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA25864 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:11:02 -0500 Received: from darwin (dialup01.bedford.xtdl.com [206.25.228.220]) by user.xtdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA26316; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:25:52 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970617131004.00954d30@wingate> X-Sender: bbush#user.xtdl.com@wingate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:10:04 -0400 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: "Brian O. Bush" Subject: Re: Geared motors In-Reply-To: References: <33A5D4B8.6E83@logan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: bbush@xtdl.com From: bbush@xtdl.com Subject: Re: Geared motors PostedDate: 06/17/97 10:10:04 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 12:04:34 PM-06/17/97 12:04:35 PM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 12:04:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >If not, and if there is sufficient interest, maybe Dave Hrynkiw >(Solarbotics) is willing to stock these items. He is already >selling microcassette mechanisms, with nice motors on them... Dave et al. Is this possible / feasible? Just wondering (hoping), Brian --- Brian O. Bush Creative Optics, Inc. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.0072307E; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:47:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23671 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:36:28 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26222 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:47:27 -0500 Received: from odi (asd01-01.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.44.2]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id UAA02723 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:47:21 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:49:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: NASA, Carnegie Mellon University to Test Adaptable Mobile Robot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: NASA, Carnegie Mellon University to Test Adaptable Mobile Robot PostedDate: 06/17/97 11:49:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 01:47:19 PM-06/17/97 01:47:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 01:47:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Parts from NASA press release 97-136: NASA, CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY TO TEST ADAPTABLE MOBILE ROBOT IN SOUTH AMERICAN DESERT ---8<--- During the 45-day field experiment from June 15 to July 31, scientists from NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA, and Carnegie Mellon's Robotics Institute, Pittsburgh, PA, will conduct an unprecedented 120-mile robotic trek in the Atacama Desert in northern Chile. The scientists will test the ability of the robot, nicknamed Nomad, to navigate, explore and perform science tasks remotely. ---8<--- Nomad was designed and built by researchers at Carnegie Mellon's Robotics Institute. About the size of a small car, the robot weighs 1,600 pounds and features Whooops.. four-wheel drive/four-wheel steering with a chassis that expands to improve stability and travel over various terrain conditions. Four aluminum wheels with cleats provide traction in soft sand. Power is supplied by a gasoline generator and enables the robot to travel at speeds up to 20 inches per second. Nomad also contains onboard navigation sensors and 20"/sec! Just about 1 mph. Now let me scale this 1.600 lbs baby to BEAMsize, um, right. The speed of a doorstop. computers to enable it to avoid obstacles without relying on a human operator. ---8<--- The total cost of developing Nomad and conducting the desert trek is $1.6 million. The project is funded by NASA with in-kind support from corporate sponsors and educational foundations. Information about the desert trek and live images and data from Nomad will be available on the Internet at URL: http://img.arc.nasa.gov/Nomad Carnegie Mellon also will maintain a website at URL: http://www.ri.cmu.edu/atacama-trek A website in Spanish has been established at URL: http://www.entelchile.net/Nomad Compared with a humble but real live ant we may not be doing too well, `body' and `brain' wise, but at $1,600,000 *this* competition looks rather less than ten feet tall... Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564B9.00752AFB; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:19:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23869 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:09:06 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26377 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:01:27 -0500 Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21058 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:01:21 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA12504 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:55:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:55:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny5-16.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.176) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012440; Tue Jun 17 14:53:06 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970617155928.252f4ce0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: gear motors SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: gear motors PostedDate: 06/17/97 12:55:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 02:19:48 PM-06/17/97 02:19:50 PM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 02:19:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just a note re the Conrad (Robbe) motors. I called Conrad in both The Netherlands and Germany. Unfortunately, they cannot (or will not??) ship to either the US or Canada. I am having my order sent to an acquaintance in France who will then forward the package to me. Also, if you do call (or Fax) Conrad from the US and presumably Canada, drop the '0' in the city code. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BA.00163CC5; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:02:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00462 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:42:56 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27014 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:26:29 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA07719 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts62-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts62-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.148]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA00054 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706180226.WAA00054@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:15:28 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: NASA, Carnegie Mellon University to Test Adaptable Mobile Robot SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: NASA, Carnegie Mellon University to Test Adaptable Mobile Robot PostedDate: 06/17/97 07:15:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/17/97 09:03:08 PM-06/17/97 09:03:09 PM DeliveredDate: 06/17/97 09:03:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:49 PM 6/17/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: > >Parts from NASA press release 97-136: > [snip] > Nomad was designed and built by researchers at Carnegie > Mellon's Robotics Institute. About the size of a small car, > the robot weighs 1,600 pounds and features > >Whooops.. > [snip] >. . . Power is supplied by a gasoline generator and > enables the robot to travel at speeds up to 20 inches per > second. Nomad also contains onboard navigation sensors and > >20"/sec! Just about 1 mph. Now let me scale this 1.600 lbs baby >to BEAMsize, um, right. The speed of a doorstop. > [snip] > The total cost of developing Nomad and conducting the > desert trek is $1.6 million. The project is funded by NASA > with in-kind support from corporate sponsors and educational > foundations. Information about the desert trek and live images > and data from Nomad will be available on the Internet at URL: > > http://img.arc.nasa.gov/Nomad > Carnegie Mellon also will maintain a website at URL: > http://www.ri.cmu.edu/atacama-trek > A website in Spanish has been established at URL: > http://www.entelchile.net/Nomad > >Compared with a humble but real live ant we may not be doing too >well, `body' and `brain' wise, but at $1,600,000 *this* competition >looks rather less than ten feet tall... > >Steve > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Sorry to have quoted so much, but I just couldn't snip Steve's hilarious critiques. Some further notes: $1,600,000 / 1,600Lbs = $1,000 per pound. (is this an universal constant?) I think that it is likely that the folks at Carnegie Mellon got bit by the ". . . in-kind support from corporate sponsors . . ." Four or five sponsors say "Sure you can have $30,000.00, but you'll have to use our [blah blah]" Easy to see how this thing got inflated to 1600 pounds. Ah well, we'll just have to work harder in evangelizing the masses, until they see the light(-beam) ;-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BA.006849BA; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:59:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02194 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:47:54 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (alpha.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28107 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:29:02 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.246]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA236 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: <33A81AAE.4D27@logan.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:28:14 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) Organization: Digital Blitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: website purpose Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: website purpose PostedDate: 06/18/97 10:28:14 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 11:59:16 AM-06/18/97 11:59:17 AM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 11:59:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The main topics of my web site is not beam, it is my java programing skills. I do have a page (1 currently, more later) about beam robotics but the money making portion of my site is my ability to program and to show examples to my clients. I do understand and sympathies with the problems with slow connections and older browser software but this hardly applys to any of my paying clients. The main purpose of this site is to showcase as much java programming on a single site as possible given resonable (ISDN, T3 or better) connections. The only reason I posted this site to the mailing list is that I have a content page dealing with my beam robotics projects and interfacing to CPUs that I thought might interest some of you. I hope this sets the record straight as far as the high load time and I do appreciate ANY feedback, positive or negative that I receive. After the response that I have received so far I intend to seperate the beam portion of the site from the high bandwidth programming. I hope this helps. David Miller $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BA.006EE156; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:11:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA02417 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:58:26 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28292 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:07:29 -0500 Received: from odi (asd12-11.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.45.108]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id VAA03890 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:07:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:10:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: gear motors In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970617155928.252f4ce0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: gear motors PostedDate: 06/18/97 12:10:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 01:11:14 PM-06/18/97 01:11:15 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 01:11:15 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > Just a note re the Conrad (Robbe) motors. I called Conrad in both The > Netherlands and Germany. Unfortunately, they cannot (or will not??) ship to > either the US or Canada. A pity, especially since they appear to be the only address still selling that nice 1.6" x 3.1", 3.2V Panasonic BP-378234 solar panel - for less than $7 a piece. Perhaps one of the American Beamers is willing to organise a larger order, which could then be payed and shipped with me as a go-between. Money would have to be wired to me; that is the main financial problem, but if the order is large enough it shouldn't hurt too much. Shipment for order values above about $140 costs less than $3, so only shipment from me to the USA would have to be payed for. BEAMers would be interested in those geared motors, the solar panel, and perhaps those gear-packages I mentioned earlier. Just a thought. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BA.0070137E; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:24:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA02468 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:10:09 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28320 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:17:10 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA03175 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:16:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:16:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny13-02.ix.netcom.com(206.217.144.66) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003127; Wed Jun 18 14:16:25 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970618152312.32573d3a@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: source for thin circuit board material SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: source for thin circuit board material PostedDate: 06/18/97 12:16:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 01:24:20 PM-06/18/97 01:24:22 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 01:24:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all, I'm looking for a source of thin circuit board material to etch my own boards for some robots. Does anyone have a source that will sell to me in small quantities? The stuff that Dave uses for his Photopopper board would be ideal! Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BA.007BA4DA; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:30:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA02946 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:19:40 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28900 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:52:55 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA17660 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:52:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:52:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny3-01.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.97) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017620; Wed Jun 18 16:52:12 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970618175708.2ecf8678@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: re gear motors SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/18/97 02:52:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 03:30:37 PM-06/18/97 03:30:38 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 03:30:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I would be happy to coordinate a purchase from Conrad via Steve Bolt. Fortunately, Conrad WILL take a credit card from the US and ship to a Eurpoean address, so the only money Steve would have to worry about is shipping. As I mentioned, I have ordered some motors already, but I am also interested in the solar panels and gears and such. Hopefully I will have a Conrad catalog soon so that I can see whatever else they have. If anyone is interested, please contact me. I will make up a list, and if Steve is willing, place an order if there is enough interest. Once I have the parts in, I will send them off to the orderers. Shipping and other costs will be prorated in some reasonable fashion. Mark Lerman mlerman@ix.netcom.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00047956; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:48:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03712 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:37:59 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29161 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:22:25 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts75ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.113.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA172328; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:17:54 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970618182536.00775410@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:25:36 -0600 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: source for thin circuit board material In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970618152312.32573d3a@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: source for thin circuit board material PostedDate: 06/18/97 05:25:36 PM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 05:48:55 PM-06/18/97 05:48:56 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 05:48:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:16 PM 6/18/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >I'm looking for a source of thin circuit board material to etch my own >boards for some robots. Does anyone have a source that will sell to me in >small quantities? The stuff that Dave uses for his Photopopper board would >be ideal! Hmmmm... should be able to buy it from any PCB manufacturer. It's just 0.014" "multi-layer" PCB. Dunno how much they'd charge tho.. Some surplus places also sell it in quantities smaller than sheets too. I think "Electronic Goldmine" has some decent selection, as well as Active Surplus in Toronto. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.0004A67D; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:50:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03719 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:39:32 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29157 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:22:17 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts75ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.113.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA174344; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:17:52 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970618182238.00774358@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:22:38 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: gear motors In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.16.19970617155928.252f4ce0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: gear motors PostedDate: 06/18/97 05:22:38 PM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 05:50:58 PM-06/18/97 05:50:59 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 05:50:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:10 PM 6/18/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >A pity, especially since they appear to be the only address still >selling that nice 1.6" x 3.1", 3.2V Panasonic BP-378234 solar >panel - for less than $7 a piece. Actually, DIGIKEY has about 800 of these left (part number BP-3782D8S). Well, that's what their website said about a month ago. And for only $3.575USD/ea in quantities of 10. Their website is www.digikey.com (well, duh..) Now, if ya want some *REALLY* nice cells, you can always take a look at our website... ;-> Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.0004ABD2; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:51:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03722 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:40:29 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29210 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:27:55 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts75ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.113.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA217290; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:23:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970618183300.00777018@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:33:00 -0600 To: John Tokash , "'beam@webconn.com'" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAMing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAMing PostedDate: 06/18/97 05:33:00 PM SendTo: jtokash@KartoffelSoft.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 05:51:08 PM-06/18/97 05:51:09 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 05:51:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:13 PM 6/18/97 -0700, John Tokash wrote: >SO.. I have no electronics experience.(I've been a software developer >for 5 years, though). How do I proceed? What books should I use to >learn the electronics I need to know for BEAM? What kit should I start >with.. or should I do something from scratch? As for books, I _still_ occasionally refer to my "Getting Started in Electronics" by Forest ("Life is like a box of capacitors") Mimms III. His whole series is pretty good and cheap. Available from (and only, it seems) any Radio Shack. There's a few schematics online on how to build your own Solarengine, but (I'm being honest here...) finding solarcells is pretty tough. And if you find one, it's got to be able to generate about 2.5V at 1mA (approx). We sell solarcells; Digikey sells them; Edmunds scientific sells them; or you just may get lucky and find a decently large one in a broken solar-power calculator. Oops - hold on..my dog is chasing solarcell light reflections again.... Anyways, there's always (shameless commercial plug mode ON) our "Type-1 solarengine kit" if nothing else. Check out the website for details. (shameless commercial plug mode OFF) Have fun, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00051423; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:55:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03737 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:44:46 -0700 Received: from ksint_01.kartoffelsoft.com (h21-102-110.ccnet.com [207.21.102.110]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29134 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:14:43 -0500 Received: by ksint_01.kartoffelsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC7C0B.034D66E0@ksint_01.kartoffelsoft.com>; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:14:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: John Tokash To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: BEAMing Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:13:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: jtokash@KartoffelSoft.com From: jtokash@KartoffelSoft.com Subject: BEAMing PostedDate: 06/18/97 05:13:58 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 05:55:33 PM-06/18/97 05:55:34 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 05:55:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello all, I've been lurking on this mailing list for about 2 weeks now. Seems very interesting. I read an article recently about BEAM and was intrigued. SO.. I have no electronics experience.(I've been a software developer for 5 years, though). How do I proceed? What books should I use to learn the electronics I need to know for BEAM? What kit should I start with.. or should I do something from scratch? Thanks for your help! John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00056362; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:58:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03740 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:48:00 -0700 From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Received: from meifoo.hk.super.net (meifoo.hk.super.net [202.14.67.37]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29275 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:32:00 -0500 Received: (from Uvtech@localhost) by meifoo.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id IAA28748 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:29:06 +0800 (HKT) X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Uvtech set sender to cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk using -f Received: from cc:Mail by vtech.com.hk id AA866734299 Thu, 19 Jun 97 08:31:39 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 08:31:39 Message-Id: <9705198667.AA866734299@vtech.com.hk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re[2]: Geared motors SMTPOriginator: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk From: cam_bremner@vtech.com.hk Subject: Re[2]: Geared motors PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:31:39 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 05:58:57 PM-06/18/97 05:58:58 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 05:58:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I noticed in some of the pictures on the solarbotics site, and on VBUG 1.1 a small gearhead motor. What are these and where are they coming from? Got the MPJA catalog (ordered from their web page) and it has a LOT of different sized DC geared and non geared motors. Reasonable pricing as well. One thing that I didn't understand was their pager motors. $7 for one with a weight and 75c for one without??? Whatever. I also received a catalog from Maxon Motors (415-697-9614 or www.maxonmotor.com) - no pricing though - and they have a couple of low wattage motors (17mm x 12mm dia. and 17mm x 10mm dia.) that can couple with a number of gearheads that they also produce. I have a feeling that these ones are going to be pricey, but they do list consumer applications (Cordless toothbrush) in their application list, so who knows. On a related note I called a place called MicroMo (813-572-0131) that manufactures extremely efficient coreless or 'Fulhauber" motors. Unfortunately their mini gearheads start at about $200 each. Cam. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00061CF5; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:06:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03753 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:55:57 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29318 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:34:33 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts75ip77.cadvision.com [207.228.113.77]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id SAA205278 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:30:17 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970618184017.0077a880@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:40:17 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Digikey cells - oops! No more.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Digikey cells - oops! No more.. PostedDate: 06/18/97 05:40:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 06:06:57 PM-06/18/97 06:06:58 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 06:06:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Sorry, just double checked that. Digikey no longer lists the cells as available, just two other "indoor" (read: "sucky") cells: Part: P247-ND Quantity 1 1.43 10 13.00 100 117.00 250 260.00 Manufacturer Part BP-4515C5SE Description SOLAR CELL 1.6V 45.0 X 15.0 MM Quantity Available 2595 Part: 249-ND Quantity 1 11.39 10 103.50 100 931.50 250 2070.00 -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00136907; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:32:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA03895 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:19:30 -0700 Received: from mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us ([198.187.135.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29960 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:39:15 -0500 Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us [198.187.135.22]) by mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA25910 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:41:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:33:18 -0700 (PDT) From: garrett myrick To: BEAM Email List Subject: Ultimate leg configuration Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gamyrick@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Subject: Ultimate leg configuration PostedDate: 06/18/97 07:33:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/18/97 08:32:03 PM-06/18/97 08:32:04 PM DeliveredDate: 06/18/97 08:32:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On the BEAM FAQ page, one of the FAQs is: What is a microcore? Click on it and a page comes up that says on the top: How do I make a walker??? Well, one of the options is Leg Mechanics. The illustrations were the inspiration for BUG(Big Ugly Gizmo(for lack of a better name)). He's standing on the desk right in front of me right now, and I will try to explain him to you as best I can. I bought 2 steel plates, both 3 1/8 * 6 inches. I cut 1 1/8 inches of the end of both. These two 1 1/8 * 3 1/8 plates are mounted on the front and back of the 'bot and are mounted so that they can rotate freely. I cut large plate in the front so that it had a tab sticking out. It looked kinda like this: ________ | | | | | | _______| |______ | | | | Right at the base of the tab, I bent it up a little. By pure luck(I swear) there happened to be a hole in the middle of it. I stuck a bolt through it and some bearings, one of the 1 1/8 * 3 1/8 on it, and a little wheel so I could turn it easily. By this time I had attached legs to the small plate. This is the leg configuration part. The front legs looked kinda like this(from the front): /\__________________/\ / \ / \ And from the side: /| / / \ \ \ And the back legs (from the back): /|_____________|\ / \ / \ So, to make an already long story shorter, I've found that this design works best... I also have an idea for a new kind of "MicroCore"... It use's a couple 555s... My mom wants me of the computer now, so I gotta go. Garrett $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.002748BC; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:09:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04113 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:58:26 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA30265 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:48:14 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-03.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.4]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id IAA13676 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:48:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re gear motors In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970618175708.2ecf8678@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/18/97 11:51:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 12:09:14 AM-06/19/97 12:09:15 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 12:09:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > ...so the only money Steve would have to worry about is shipping. Which still would have to be wired - unless someone is willing to have his/hers FedEx account or whatever used for the purpose. > As I mentioned, I have ordered some motors already, but I am also interested > in the solar panels and gears and such. Hopefully I will have a Conrad > catalog soon so that I can see whatever else they have. Presumably the German catalog? Not everything in it can be sent to a Dutch address (legal arguments), but most if not all components are available to me, so they tell me. The solar panel I mentioned is no longer in the Dutch catalog, but it is in the German one, and they assure me I can keep buying it in the forseeable future. The geared motors and gear packages are also in the Dutch catalog. > If anyone is interested, please contact me. I will make up a list, and if > Steve is willing, place an order if there is enough interest. Once I have > the parts in, I will send them off to the orderers. Shipping and other costs > will be prorated in some reasonable fashion. I'm willing to participate in the above. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.002756FC; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:09:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04116 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:59:07 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA30262 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:47:55 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-03.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.4]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id IAA13652 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:47:46 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:50:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: digikey solar panel (was gear motors) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970618182238.00774358@cadvision.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: digikey solar panel (was gear motors) PostedDate: 06/18/97 11:50:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 12:09:45 AM-06/19/97 12:09:45 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 12:09:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: > Actually, DIGIKEY has about 800 of these left (part number BP-3782D8S). > Well, that's what their website said about a month ago. And for only > $3.575USD/ea in quantities of 10. Their website is www.digikey.com (well, > duh..) I checked yesterday before posting, and found: BP-3782D8S: 0 (Their own number for it, P287-ND, gave the same result) So it would appear that demand has been high! I then tried: Keywords: SOLAR CEL__________________________ Search Again Which gave me a list of `solar cell modules' from 1 to 10 watt, plus these two small panels: P247-ND BP-4515C5SE SOLAR CELL 1.6V 45.0 X 15.0 MM In Stock Panasonic Description SOLAR CELL 1.6V 45.0 X 15.0 MM Quantity Available 2595 Price 1.43 P249-ND BP-4852C9S SOLAR CELL 2.8V 48.5 X 52.5 MM In Stock Panasonic Description SOLAR CELL 2.8V 48.5 X 52.5 MM Quantity Available 122 Price 11.39 Two of the first in series may be nice for some applications, the second is rather expensive. > Now, if ya want some *REALLY* nice cells, you can always take a look at our > website... ;-> Far be it from me to knock your solar panels, Dave. I have a Photovore driven by two lady's watches in preparation, very tiny, all SMD, and it will have your `competition-grade' on its back! But all my other projects require more panel area, because of Dutch weather. The BP-3782D8S (or BP-37823, as listed by Conrad) has an area of 37x82mm, nominally 3.2V at 41mA. I can confirm those numbers under a bright noon sun, but in practice I rarely see more than about 7mA... Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.002F76C1; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:38:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04166 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:27:53 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA30549 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:57:09 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts74ip44.cadvision.com [207.228.113.44]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id BAA171290; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:52:45 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970619020156.0076a3e4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:01:56 -0600 To: Steven Bolt , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: re gear motors In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.16.19970618175708.2ecf8678@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:01:56 AM SendTo: sbolt@xs4all.nl,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 01:38:35 AM-06/19/97 01:38:35 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 01:38:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:51 AM 6/19/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >> As I mentioned, I have ordered some motors already, but I am also interested >> in the solar panels and gears and such. Hopefully I will have a Conrad >> catalog soon so that I can see whatever else they have. Did I miss something? I've heard some pretty general talk about these motors, but nothing too specific. Is there a scan of the catalogue page, or a list of spec's on these? I'm _sorta_ interested, but maybe I missed the critical "here's all the information & specs" msg.... Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00304A08; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:47:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA04176 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:36:47 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA30541 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:54:23 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts74ip44.cadvision.com [207.228.113.44]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id BAA211238 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:49:59 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970619020000.0074133c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:00:00 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: MPJA motors..suck. But not the gearhead! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: MPJA motors..suck. But not the gearhead! PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:00:00 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 01:47:36 AM-06/19/97 01:47:37 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 01:47:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Just a note to say that I've been playing with a sample of those nifty MPJA gearmotors. Not bad, but BOY, DO those motors SUCK! 50mA @ 1.7V to get moving?!? Sheesh! So they'll be good for _some_ applications like walkers, but not the best for solar applications. Speaking of which, I just finished an experiment using the MPJA gearhead and mating it with a standard pager motor. The gearhead separates easily enough from the lousy motor, and the tiny spur gear on the output shaft can be carefully pried off. Now, what do we have here? Hmmm...an old 1mm shafted pager motor..(new ones like we sell are 1.5mm) Hmmm...this lousy motor has a 1mm shaft.... Hmmm.... Did it! Managed to interface just the gearhead unit to a pager motor! Nice, low voltage, low current gearhead. Just had to push the new gear almost down to the neck of the shaft, and clip off the excess pager motor shaft (won't fit in otherwise). Took some minor adjustment to get the alignment juuust right, but for 15 minutes work, it's pretty slick! Just remember to solder the gearunit stages together (no screws holding it together anymore). Just so you know it _can_ be done.... Also, I performed the following experiment on another: The motors can be modified to have a much higher gearing (about 25X faster) in this manner: 1) Unscrew the gearbox from the motor. It won't fall apart, as it is swaged together on the inner diameter of the brass shaft. Don't lose the screws... 2) Use a dremel, round file or other brass-removal device to remove as much of the upper swage that was hidden under the head of each screw. This means simply file the inner diameter as much as you can to there's little or no "shoulder" holding the top plate to the spacer brass. 3) This is the 2nd hardest part: Pry the top plate off the assembly, over a tray or tablecloth. Them little gears ROLL! Use a spreader or flathead screwdriver to pry the top layer from the middle layer. I bent the middle brass plate doing this, but after reassembly, it's running fine. 4) (Richard sez this step can be done by crimping the small gear on, but I soldered) Take the smaller gear off the shaft connected to the output shaft. Pretin the inner spur gear with solder, being careful not to contaminate the outer gear. If you do (I did), reheat it and snap the solder off (worked well for me). 5) Hardest part: Slide the small gear back onto the shaft, and simultaneously heat the output gear (which heats the shaft) and the small spur gear. When the solder is very molten, press them together and let cool. 6) Reassemble, excluding the gear the usually meshed the output and the second gear you just soldered. 7) Go have a beer. Have one for me (still can't look at one after the "SGIII" party - UGH...). In conclusion, not bad little motors. Not *GREAT*, but not bad... Later, y'allllll -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.00332112; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:18:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04200 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:07:55 -0700 Received: from zenith.Berkeley.EDU (zenith.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.177.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA30707 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:38:30 -0500 Received: from [128.32.177.184] (vault-particle.Berkeley.EDU) by zenith.Berkeley.EDU (4.1/1.31) id AA00352; Thu, 19 Jun 97 01:38:47 PDT Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 01:38:43 PDT X-Sender: pangloss@thor.he.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 3.0 for Macintosh To: beam@webconn.com From: Chris Seidel Subject: re: BEAMING SMTPOriginator: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu From: seidel@mendel.berkeley.edu Subject: re: BEAMING PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:38:43 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 02:18:33 AM-06/19/97 02:18:34 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 02:18:34 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US John, There's an article in this month's Electronics Now about BEAM robotics. It has a schematic of the solarengine circuit Dave described. I would recommend getting his SolarEngine kit for $25. I built it from scratch and it cost me alot more than that because some of the parts have been discontinued, (making them harder to locate), and I had to link a bunch of Radio Shack solar cells in series to get enough voltage to drive the circuit in less than direct sunlight (although the current from those cells is too high so I had to add a resistor to the circuit to compensate). Anyway, Dave sells great Solar Cells too. Also Forest Mimms III is one of my favorites. Radio Shack sells these tiny books by him for about $1.50 each on various topics. www.robotstore.com also carries one of his books about getting started in electronics, with lots of practical circuits (Forest Mimms Engineers Notebook $19.95). -Chris Dept of Molecular and Cell Biology University of California at Berkeley $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.0034F4FC; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:38:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA04220 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:27:54 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA30746 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:48:10 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-04.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.5]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id KAA26699 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:48:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:51:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re gear motors In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970619020156.0076a3e4@cadvision.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:51:01 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 02:38:28 AM-06/19/97 02:38:29 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 02:38:29 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: > Did I miss something? I've heard some pretty general talk about these > motors, but nothing too specific. Is there a scan of the catalogue page, Your wish is my command... (I didn't cc the 45K image to the list. Those who want it, may ask; it shows a picture of one of the 8 versions, a line drawing with measures, a table and some comment in Dutch. ) > or a list of spec's on these? I'm _sorta_ interested, but maybe > I missed the critical "here's all the information & specs" > msg.... All the relevant specs are on my website. A direct URL: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-spider_parts.html#motors Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.004AD06B; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:37:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04405 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:26:32 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA31174 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:53:45 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-132.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.132]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA13079 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A92CCA.4243@golden.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:57:46 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re gear motors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id HAA31174 SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/19/97 05:57:46 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 06:37:15 AM-06/19/97 06:37:16 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 06:37:16 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Having tried some of these motors, I like em... I've got a jpg of the walker I built out of them somwhere on my hard drive... Soon as I find it I'll post it on my site... Very effish but the gears are a weee bit fragile.... (2¢ mode on) The price is right considering other stuff with the same sort of precision/eficiancy goes for anything up to $200..... I think a bulk buy may be a good thing as they are the right size/effish/voltage/ratio/etc..... If you are thinking of getting in on the Buy (if it happens) scrape some pennys together, cash in your beer bottles and buy extras... There is NO substitute for Numbers when building bots... Many a project has fallen by thew wayside because it was built around something the builder only had one of...... (2¢ mode off) They motors are actually Produced by a company called Bertsch... I did find a Phone number for Bertsch USA but havn't seen the catalouge I order two weeks ago yet (hmm time for another nasty phone call)..... My hope is they have other models perhaps with steel gears etc... I'll keep folks informed of my progress.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.005538D9; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:30:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA04714 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:20:16 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31462 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:54:23 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-02.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.3]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id QAA09725 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:54:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: re gear motors In-Reply-To: <33A92CCA.4243@golden.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: re gear motors PostedDate: 06/19/97 07:57:10 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 08:31:02 AM-06/19/97 08:31:03 AM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 08:31:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Andrew Miller wrote: > Very effish but the gears are a weee bit fragile.... Which is why I strongly recommend the 96.4:1 versions - you won't strip the gears on those, I've really tried :) And a 10-teeth gear cut off from one of the red 50/10 gears I mentioned simply pushfits onto the pulley these motors come equipped with. That makes adding a robust 5:1 stage quite easy, giving you 482:1 total - just about what you used for that walker. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.0076DA36; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:38:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06156 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:26:55 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32001 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:21:58 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA08749 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:21:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:21:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny2-11.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.75) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smaa08725; Thu Jun 19 15:21:34 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970619162655.193f8606@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Conrad Order SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Conrad Order PostedDate: 06/19/97 01:21:47 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 02:38:19 PM-06/19/97 02:38:20 PM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 02:38:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi All, Steve Bolt has kindly consented to be the middleman for a group purchase from Conrad. I am going to take orders, place the order on my credit card via Fax, and have them ship to Steve in The Netherlands. He will then ship to me using my Fedex number. I'm happy to provide the service, but I need to have anyone interested email me an exact order, i.e. the Conrad part number. The motor and gear numbers are on Steve's web site. I do not have a catalog, so please don't ask for anything beyond what's on Steve's site or on this list. The prices are in Dutch currency. I don't have an exact exchange rate, but US dollars are somewhere about Dutch fl times .65. I think. Anyone who needs more accuracy should check independently of me. Obviously, I am the one who will be left 'holding the bag' for items ordered but not collected, so please think it through before placing an order. I will be 'prorating' shipping charges by, I guess, dollar amounts. Finally, if the order is too large, I reserve the right to ask for a deposit from you. I can accept credit cards - I have an account that allows Internet charges - but I prefer checks. For you many Canadian and other Beamers, I'm afraid everything will have to be done in US dollars; checks drawn on 'foreign' banks have a large surcharge. BTW, I'm also looking into the M1.4x0.30 screws required to mount the motors. I'm getting a quote on 5mm brass and stainless steel. Any questions, please email me. I would much rather keep everyone abreast via this list than by emailing everyone that is interested individually, but it's not fair to the rest of the group to use a lot of bandwidth. I'll use my judgement, but if the subject gets annoying, please email me and I'll rethink the matter. No flames please - I'm not making any profit on this! Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BB.007B13E6; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:24:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA06337 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:13:47 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32108 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:12:13 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24861; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5(anti-relay)) with ESMTP id PAA28776; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:11:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970619162655.193f8606@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:11:54 -0600 To: Mark Lerman From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Conrad Order Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Conrad Order PostedDate: 06/19/97 02:11:54 PM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 03:24:25 PM-06/19/97 03:24:26 PM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 03:24:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 3:21 PM -0500 6/19/97, Mark Lerman wrote: fl? Oh well. NewsBriefs (once a day, subscribe at db-request@incinc.net if you are interested) shows the currency market each day. Given the information below, I get .51, but having lived in Europe I know that the "real world" is always at an inflated rate when you want to buy something and a deflated rate when you were selling. I reckon .65 sounds reasonable enough. As always, your mileage may vary drastically. >The prices are in Dutch currency. I don't have an exact exchange rate, but >US dollars are somewhere about Dutch fl times .65. I think. Anyone who needs >more accuracy should check independently of me. Zoz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * World currency vs. US$: yesterday Tuesday Australia (Dollar) 1.3298 1.3373 Brazil(Real) 1.0738 1.0733 Britain (Pound) .6102 .6102 Canada (Dollar) 1.3923 1.3864 China (Yuan) 8.3228 8.3231 ECU .8840 .8863 Finland (Mark) 5.1825 5.1738 France (Franc) 5.8490 5.8365 Germany (Mark) 1.7333 1.7308 Greece (Drachma) 274.40 273.73 Hong Kong (Dollar) 7.7402 7.7400 India (Rupee) 35.810 35.795 Israel (Shekel) 3.4040 3.4061 Italy (Lira) 1696.25 1697.50 Japan (Yen) 113.65 113.31 Mexico (Peso) 7.8970 7.9200 Nethrlnds(Guilder) 1.9425 1.9535 Norway (Krone) 7.2100 7.2738 Portugal (Escudo) 174.58 174.85 Russia (Ruble) 5759.00 5756.80 Saudi Arab (Riyal) 3.7502 3.7500 So. Africa (Rand) 4.5135 4.5100 So. Korea (Won) 888.40 888.20 Spain (Peseta) 146.17 146.19 Sweden (Krona) 7.7240 7.7548 Switzerlnd (Franc) 1.4478 1.4447 Taiwan (NT $) 27.91 27.92 $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BC.001C989A; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:12:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07193 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:01:46 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32736 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:36:20 -0500 Received: from odi (hlm01-00.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.53.1]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.5/XS4ALL) with SMTP id GAA08691 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:39:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Conrad Order In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970619162655.193f8606@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Conrad Order PostedDate: 06/19/97 09:39:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/19/97 10:12:28 PM-06/19/97 10:12:29 PM DeliveredDate: 06/19/97 10:12:29 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: > I'm happy to provide the service, but I need to have anyone interested email > me an exact order, i.e. the Conrad part number. The motor and gear numbers > are on Steve's web site. I do not have a catalog, so please don't ask for > anything beyond what's on Steve's site or on this list. Here you have a list of items, part numbers and prices (in Dutch guilders) I ordered from Conrad for my own projects: cat. number item price 19 90 10-88 Quartz-uurwerk f 6,95 19 66 06-88 Solarcel 3,2V 37x82 mm f 12,95 24 28 02-88 Minimotor 1,5-3V 96,4:1 f 19,95 29 77 04-88 Assortiment tandwielen f 10,95 29 74 02-44 Assortiment tandwielen f 5,95 14 54 75-44 Fotoweerstand A9060 f 1,65 18 35 63-44 Fotoweerstand A1060 f 2,25 18 35 80-44 Fotoweerstand afb. 8 f 7,75 47 31 20-88 Gold Cap 1,0 F f 10,95 `uurwerk' - clock `minimotor - geared motor `assortiment tandwielen' - package with several types of gears `fotoweerstand' - ldr, light dependent resistor If you need to know anything specific, just ask. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BC.0027CDEA; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:14:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@[206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA07318 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:04:09 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00209 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:46:06 -0500 Received: from ts17ip123.cadvision.com (ts17ip123.cadvision.com [207.228.68.123]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/DCE/TRI) with SMTP id AAA178096 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:41:48 -0600 Received: by ts17ip123.cadvision.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC7D12.51CFFDC0@ts17ip123.cadvision.com>; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:38:49 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC7D12.51CFFDC0@ts17ip123.cadvision.com> From: Hyndman To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Mark's in another magazine Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:38:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: hyndmanm@cadvision.com From: hyndmanm@cadvision.com Subject: Mark's in another magazine PostedDate: 06/19/97 11:38:40 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/20/97 12:14:55 AM-06/20/97 12:14:57 AM DeliveredDate: 06/20/97 12:14:57 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark Tilden is yet in another magazine, the july issue of national geographic has a small article on mark tilden. It's not what you would say an in depth interview, but it's a picture of mark and a lot of his "babies". But he is quoted "Like a god" which is what he deserves, mostly it's just a few pictures of how robots are evolving, some guy created a robot which plays ping pong pretty good. There's a picture of a military flying robot that's really ideal for spying and surveillance. And yes there is a picture of a cockroach with a bunch of electronics hooked up to it, It looks like there might be an fried cockroach if it fell over or something....There is some pictures of a artist using a tesla coil passing 1.8 million Volts through a christmas tree, down a cage holding a physicist and into the floor. What it has to do with robotics, I don't know....Just thought a few people should know incase they want to read it or just so you can pick up the magazine, show it to some people and gloat about how you know him : ). Devin $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BC.0044A3C3; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:29:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07501 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:19:10 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00508 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:18:00 -0500 Received: from marvin (cisco3-168.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.168]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA28820 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33AA6810.7BA9@golden.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:22:56 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'beam@webconn.com'" Subject: Re: Mark's in another magazine References: <01BC7D12.51CFFDC0@ts17ip123.cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Mark's in another magazine PostedDate: 06/20/97 04:22:56 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 06/20/97 05:29:48 AM-06/20/97 05:29:49 AM DeliveredDate: 06/20/97 05:29:49 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I heard about the article but National geographic is only available by subscritption..... So I'm gonna have to wait till next month and steal it from my dentist office...;> If anybody has a copy of it or wants to transcribe it I'll put it up on my site... Nat geo has a site at http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/mags/ng_online/index.html They are still displaying the june issue though ... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 882564BC.005E1895; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:07:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA08208 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:11 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01178 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11