$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825646D.001FCB25; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:47:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA20876 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:37:45 -0800 From: IMIvar@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19339 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 22:34:08 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA01858 for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:33:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:33:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970401233302_1518971344@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gromit.webconn.com id WAA19339 SMTPOriginator: IMIvar@aol.com From: IMIvar@aol.com Subject: BEAM Questions PostedDate: 04/01/97 08:33:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/01/97 09:47:27 PM-04/01/97 09:47:28 PM DeliveredDate: 04/01/97 09:47:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello! - I have been interested in BEAM robotics for about 6 months or so, and this is my first letter on the mailing list. I built a couple of robots before (photovore, solaroller, and the robot from Miller's web page) , and I have a couple of questions about microcores in general which I hope someone can answer for me. I think that these are pretty common questions, and I think that having them answered will help some of the other beginners out there. I have a basic knowledge of electronics, can solder, and have read Tilden's patent and "Living Machines" paper, which is where many of the questions I have sprang out of. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers some or all of the questions! WARNING! MASSIVE QUESTIONING AHEAD! ------------------- -How do you integrate tactile sensors into a microcore? In Tilden's paper on living machines, the symbol lexicon that he uses for the "Walkman" robot has 4 tactile sensors, and a reverse sensor. How did he connect those sensors to the microcore? -Tilden also uses the extra 2 neurons from the 4 neuron microcore as reverse sensors and gait control. How does that work? -There has been some recent discussion on solar powered walking robots. How do you limit the number of pulses that the robot starts up with (instead of always having saturation upon starting the microcore)? -How does the feedback from the motors affect the microcore? If the motor shaft is held to prevent it from turning, what does this do to the pulses already in the microcore? Does it speed up or slow down the pulse going through that neuron? Why? -Tilden's patent has a robot in it that uses a multiplexer as a way of controlling the gait of the robot. What is a multiplexer and how does it change the gait of the robot? -Could you make a solar powered walking robot phototropic by adding some photoresistors or small solar cells to the front of the robot, and then connecting them to the microcore somehow? How does that affect the feedback from the motors to the microcore? -Any good source where I can find cheap, small motors with gearboxes? (I know that cheap, small and gearboxes are words that rarely go together?but I've got to ask.) What has worked well for other people? -------------- Thanks in advance (again) for helping a freshman in high school with his (many) robotics problems! Ivar Thorson $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825646E.0010BE17; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:02:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24109 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:53:23 -0800 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25903 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 20:26:04 -0600 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA11183 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ts34-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts34-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.147]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA10703 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:04:39 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: <199704030104.VAA10703@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 19:51:17 -0500 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Questions SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Questions PostedDate: 04/02/97 04:51:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/02/97 07:03:00 PM-04/02/97 07:03:01 PM DeliveredDate: 04/02/97 07:03:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:33 PM 4/1/97 -0500, Ivar Thorson wrote: >Hello! - > [snip] >-There has been some recent discussion on solar powered walking robots. How >do you limit the number of pulses that the robot starts up with (instead of >always having saturation upon starting the microcore)? Use the PNC (pulse neutralization circuit) from the patent, or a pulse initialization circuit if you have designed with the default state as no pulses. -Richard [snip] > >-Tilden's patent has a robot in it that uses a multiplexer as a way of >controlling the gait of the robot. What is a multiplexer and how does it >change the gait of the robot? A multiplexer is a switch. In the case of designing a reverse circuit, a DPDT switch is very useful. -Richard > >-Could you make a solar powered walking robot phototropic by adding some >photoresistors or small solar cells to the front of the robot, and then >connecting them to the microcore somehow? How does that affect the feedback >from the motors to the microcore? Yes. I would say that is a perfect description of how to add eyes to the microcore. -Richard > >-Any good source where I can find cheap, small motors with gearboxes? (I know >that cheap, small and gearboxes are words that rarely go together€but I've >got to ask.) What has worked well for other people? Correct. "Cheap", "small", and "work[s] well" are the classic compromises that the people designing the gearmotors have to make. Then we get to look at the prducts they release. :-) I have really enjoyed using some commercially available gear-head-motor combinations, but they are not cheap by any measure. A great home-brew drive train almost always includes a pager motor and some small "stove timer" gears. (but not too many stages of gearing!) -Richard >-------------- >Thanks in advance (again) for helping a freshman in high school with his >(many) robotics problems! > >Ivar Thorson > > Cheers, -Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825646E.006799CA; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:51:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA25899 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:42:10 -0800 From: Mulder2554@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30589 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:47:29 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA12821; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:47:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:47:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970403124542_1386814375@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: crs0274@inforamp.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM Questions SMTPOriginator: Mulder2554@aol.com From: Mulder2554@aol.com Subject: Re: BEAM Questions PostedDate: 04/03/97 09:47:24 AM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/03/97 10:51:44 AM-04/03/97 10:51:45 AM DeliveredDate: 04/03/97 10:51:45 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am having a real hard time finding a place to start. Can anyone help?????? K.C. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825646E.007FD9F2; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:16:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27036 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:06:57 -0800 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31758 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:22:15 -0600 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA12975 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11989 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:10:30 -0700 (MST) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704030104.VAA10703@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:10:11 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: BEAM Questions SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM Questions PostedDate: 04/03/97 01:10:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/03/97 03:16:39 PM-04/03/97 03:16:41 PM DeliveredDate: 04/03/97 03:16:41 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >At 11:33 PM 4/1/97 -0500, Ivar Thorson wrote: >>Howdo you limit the number of pulses that the robot starts up with (instead >>of always having saturation upon starting the microcore)? (rude comment: are we SURE this wasn't an April Fool's joke???) > Use the PNC (pulse neutralization circuit) from the >patent, or a pulse initialization circuit if you have >designed with the default state as no pulses. >-Richard (just pretend I'm Richard -- yes, I know it is difficult for a mere mortal like me to aspire to minor godhood, but you'll just have to try.) These two circuits limit the number of processes in the following manner: The pulse neutralization circuit is driven by an integrative neuron that has a relatively long (at least in comparison to the microcore loop) time delay. When the power first hits the circuit, the output of this neuron (which isn't your usual, everyday, microcore differentiating neuron) is immediately and reliably such that the pulse neutralization circuit is in process-eating mode. Thus, even though the microcore has powered up saturated, the pulses fail to get past the neutralization circuit. Finally, the integrative neuron saturates and its output drops. The last process to enter the neutralization circuit is then released, thus permitting one and only one process in the microcore. I (Zoz, not Richard) am not sure how one designs a nervous neural loop such that its default state is no processes, so perhaps someone can write about that. However, given that such a beast is possible, once again you'd probably have an integrative neuron, this time with a relatively short delay controlling the pulse initialization circuit. Since the integrative neuron is only going to saturate once (i.e. when its capacitor is completely charged... what is there to discharge it?) then the initialization circuit would generate only one process I seem to remember a diagram that showed a diode or three that I didn't initially understand -- someone then told me that they were a way of reliably discharging the integrative neuron's capacitor once the power had been turned off. >>-Could you make a solar powered walking robot phototropic by adding some >>photoresistors or small solar cells to the front of the robot, and then >>connecting them to the microcore somehow? How does that affect the feedback >>from the motors to the microcore? > > Yes. I would say that is a perfect description of >how to add eyes to the microcore. > >-Richard Well, yes, but... one has their choice of two basic principles: resistive and photovoltaic. If you remember the diagram for a nervous neuron, there is an input capacitor and a resistor tied (nominally) to ground. I say (nominally) because it is possible to tie it to Vcc, or even have two resistors with the actual input to the gate (i.e. just AFTER the capacitor) be the center of a voltage divider. So: what can you do? If you were, for example, thinking of using an IR detector or a cadmium-sulfide cell, you could put that in parallel to the normal resistor, in series with it, or even connect it to Vcc. If your sensor ends up lowering the resistance to ground, then processes going through the neuron do so with less delay (and possibly shorter pulse-width.) Fortunately, the contrary is true (more resistance -> longer delay.) Connecting it to Vcc has other effects that you'd basically have to work out (no light, some light, awful dam bright in here.) If you have with a resistance to Vcc that is pretty much the same as the resistance to ground, you end up with what Tilden calls a latch - if a process comes in, it potentially changes the output of the neuron and then the neuron stays in that state.... well, forever (or until your sensor changes or the battery dies or suchlike.) As far as photovoltaic sensors are concerned, well, they are obviously not just resistors. To be truthful, I've only thought about their electronics a little bit. Now, the really cool part is this: say you've put two photoresistors onto your microcore on the "front" two nervous neurons. Just what, exactly, happens then? It may seem that it would be as easy as "well this process ought to be shorter so this leg doesn't swing as far and the opposite side does so it turns toward the nervous neuron that has the sensor with the light," but it is much more complicated than that. The controls are not obvious, they get you into complexity and chaos theory and I'm certainly not capable of discussing that subject... Zoz ---------------------- John Atwood deVries II zozzles@lanl.gov, zozzles@empire.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825646F.000225B9; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:23:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA27474 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:14:01 -0800 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA32611 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:33:25 -0600 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA14068 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ts25-13.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts35-14.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.141]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA18475 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:32:38 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: <199704032332.TAA18475@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 18:19:08 -0500 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Questions SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Questions PostedDate: 04/03/97 03:19:08 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/03/97 04:23:36 PM-04/03/97 04:23:38 PM DeliveredDate: 04/03/97 04:23:38 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:47 PM 4/3/97 -0500, "K.C." wrote: >I am having a real hard time finding a place to start. Can anyone help?????? > >K.C. > > Mark's page http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html Miller's page http://www.golden.net/~amiller Dave's page http://www.solarbotics.com You could end-up spending the rest of your life just _looking_ at all the cool stuff that these folks have on their pages, and the stuff that they link to. . . If you are looking to do it yourself, Miller's page has a bit of a circuit tutorial. Mark's page will even start you off at the learning to solder stage. Dave's page is a great source for parts and kits and inspiration . . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256470.0053F045; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:16:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA06103 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:07:02 -0800 Received: from mh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [205.219.238.172]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12414 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:20:44 -0600 Received: from [206.31.221.168] (pa6dsp24.lex.infi.net [206.31.221.168]) by mh101.infi.net (Infinet-S-8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07424 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:20:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199704051420.JAA07424@mh101.infi.net> To: beam mailing list Subject: It's not BEAM but... Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 09:15:35 -0500 From: "Mike O'Connor" X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 SMTPOriginator: mikeo1@lex.infi.net From: mikeo1@lex.infi.net Subject: It's not BEAM but... PostedDate: 04/05/97 06:15:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/05/97 07:17:02 AM-04/05/97 07:17:02 AM DeliveredDate: 04/05/97 07:17:02 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US -- [ From: Mike O'Connor * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- A while back some posters on this list mentioned the anthropomorphic Honda biped. Here's a photo from Honda's Japanese language site: http://www.honda.co.jp/home/hpr/press-info/c96122.html There's a brief description in English here: http://robby.caltech.edu/~kajita/honda.html This guy has a 20 cm/s biped. Cheers Mike -- Mike O'Connor mikeo1@lex.infi.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256471.0013E4EF; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:37:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA06507 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:27:47 -0800 From: Mulder2554@aol.com Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16268 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 21:00:38 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA28983; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:00:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:00:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970405220032_1152800953@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: mikeo1@lex.infi.net, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... SMTPOriginator: Mulder2554@aol.com From: Mulder2554@aol.com Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... PostedDate: 04/05/97 07:00:35 PM SendTo: mikeo1@lex.infi.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/05/97 07:37:23 PM-04/05/97 07:37:24 PM DeliveredDate: 04/05/97 07:37:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I recently bought a robot project book.For this one robot it simply says "Small hobby motors with gear reduction". It does show a small picture, but it is extremly difficult to really tell anything. It is a relativley small robot, it uses model airplane wheels. Can anyone tell how or where or what I should use or where I could get gear reductors? It is the first robot, "The Minibot" in the book, "Robot Builders Bonanza-99 inexspensive robotics projects." Thanks K.C. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256472.006CFE1E; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:50:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA08990 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:40:47 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27350 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:14:31 -0500 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA11853 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:14:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11811; Mon, 7 Apr 97 12:13:33 MDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704051420.JAA07424@mh101.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:14:49 +0100 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... PostedDate: 04/07/97 03:14:49 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/07/97 12:50:36 PM-04/07/97 12:50:37 PM DeliveredDate: 04/07/97 12:50:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >-- [ From: Mike O'Connor * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > >A while back some posters on this list mentioned the anthropomorphic Honda >biped. Hmm. Impressive. The jap machine is 180cm high, tall enough to talk to. I wonder if it's based on the new Honda gyroscopes for it's balance. In any case, I don't think it takes anything more than micro bunny steps to move around, just based upon its crouched design stance. I could be wrong, but I've not seen video on this thing. Anybody care to comment? markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256472.0071A19E; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:41:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09226 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:31:40 -0700 Received: from commx (COMMX.LTX-TR.COM [153.33.32.81]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27807 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:23:52 -0500 Received: from bugs.federation (bugs.federation.ltx-tr.com) by commx.ltx-tr.com; Mon, 7 Apr 97 12:20:38 PDT Received: from bugs (localhost) by bugs.federation (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18573; Mon, 7 Apr 97 12:25:23 PDT Sender: batinic@ltx-tr.com Message-Id: <33494A22.794BDF32@ltx-tr.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:25:22 -0700 From: Ivan-Pierre Batinic Organization: LTX/Trillium X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: batinic@ltx-tr.com From: batinic@ltx-tr.com Subject: Re: It's not BEAM but... PostedDate: 04/07/97 12:25:22 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/07/97 01:41:13 PM-04/07/97 01:41:14 PM DeliveredDate: 04/07/97 01:41:14 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US What bothers me is that if balancing is maintained with considerable external force applied, then why the weird stance? I assume "considerable" forces are compensated for from its weight (462 pounds) and height (6 ft) and, its ability to eventually sit down if it cannot maintain balance (that alone implies incredible balancing capability, unless it literally falls on its rear-end!). As Mark points out, the stance implies "micro-bunny steps", and this seems inconsistant with the above. The stance to me, seems rocket-pack ready; so who knows? Ivan -- # ________ --------------------------------------------- # # | |__ __ \/ / Ivan-Pierre Batinic +1(408) 383-2487 # # | |__| |__> < LTX Corp./Trillium Div. FAX:+1(408) 433-0255 # # |____| |___/\ \ 3930 N. First St. San Jose CA 95134-1501 USA # $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256472.00746E1C; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:11:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA09339 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:02:14 -0700 Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28150 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:08:19 -0500 Received: from [206.108.81.2] ([206.108.81.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with ESMTP id QAA20828 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:08:12 -0400 (EDT) To: beam@webconn.com From: mlea@smartrisk.ca (Michael Lea) Reply-To: mlea@smartrisk.ca (Michael Lea) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:57:50 GMT Subject: Red Fox photovore Message-ID: <3140546526.31049227@smartrisk.ca> Organization: SMARTRISK Foundation X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable SMTPOriginator: mlea@smartrisk.ca From: mlea@smartrisk.ca Subject: Red Fox photovore PostedDate: 04/07/97 01:57:50 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: mlea@smartrisk.ca $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/07/97 02:11:53 PM-04/07/97 02:11:54 PM DeliveredDate: 04/07/97 02:11:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all In the Oct 1988 issue of Omni magazine is a article/plan from M.I.T. on building a photovore. The photovore uses a remote car as a base. The car is called "Red Fox" and is sold by Kay Bee toys in the states. My response from Kay Bee via email, they have 6 cars sitting in Columbus, Ohio warehouse, that cannot be sold directly. Would anyone have a source for these cars in Canada? How about the manufacturer's name? I would like to see if I can track down the toy car here in Canada. Thanks in advance. Michael $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256472.008037EE; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:20:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA09854 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:10:41 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29130 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:23:20 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA27496 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 18:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts64-12.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts19-01.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.160]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA02744 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:22:45 -0300 (ADT) Message-Id: <199704072222.TAA02744@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:25:13 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Red Fox photovore SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Red Fox photovore PostedDate: 04/07/97 03:25:13 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/07/97 04:20:32 PM-04/07/97 04:20:32 PM DeliveredDate: 04/07/97 04:20:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:57 PM 4/7/97 GMT, Michael Lea wrote: > >Hi all > >In the Oct 1988 issue of Omni magazine is a article/plan from M.I.T. on >building a photovore. The photovore uses a remote car as a base. The car is >called "Red Fox" and is sold by Kay Bee toys in the states. My response from >Kay Bee via email, they have 6 cars sitting in Columbus, Ohio warehouse, that >cannot be sold directly. > >Would anyone have a source for these cars in Canada? How about the >manufacturer's name? I would like to see if I can track down the toy car here >in Canada. > >Thanks in advance. > >Michael > I remember it well. [reminiscing . . . *sigh* ] Actually, I just dug mine out of storage. Let's blow the dust off *puff* *hack* *cough* Let's see here, okay, needs new AA cells (4); no wonder I build 'solar' now. Hey, I built this thing with ScotchFlex (TM) What? Am I made of money?!?!? I did have fun with this thing when I built it though, in hmmm, must have been the winter of '88-'89; Wow, 'tempus' is 'fugit'-ing, for sure. I guess this would be another example of "Mark Knows Best" though, I didn't even get through the first set of cells on this thing before I pulled them out for something else that needed a battery. (Could it have been the TV remote?) And it has sat there, under the answering machine for years, untouched. (Aside: "Mark Knows Best" is a reference to something I've heard Mark Tilden say, "Battery powered toys seldom outlive their first set of cells. They usually succumb to deceleration trauma." In other words, battery-powered toys usually run into something hard enough to break themselves before they run out of battery power.) Now, Michael was asking about a source for the base car in Canada. (Does it always take me this long to get to the point? Never mind! That was a rhetorical question.) I picked-up my Red Fox at Radio Shack, those many moons ago. I haven't noticed them recently, so the original may be a "no go." The thing that you're looking for, in a replacement, is the dual motors on the drive (rear) wheels. This is very easy to convert to photovore use, as demonstrated by the article. I also recall a typo in the article. It involves a bias resistor to the base of one of the transistors. Sorry, I don't recall more, and don't fancy dis-assembling this museum-piece. This article, in _Omni_ was a real watershed for me. It put me on "the path to righteousness" and subsumption [ :-) ] and I looked into the bibliography references too. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256474.006511D8; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 11:23:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA19665 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 11:14:25 -0700 Received: from hogwild.hamjudo.com (hogwild.hamjudo.com [152.160.58.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08932 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:02:00 -0500 Received: (from kmcclary@localhost) by hogwild.hamjudo.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA00683; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:00:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:00:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith McClary To: Mulder2554@aol.com cc: Keith McClary , beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com From: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com Subject: Re: BEAM help PostedDate: 04/09/97 10:00:54 AM SendTo: Mulder2554@aol.com CopyTo: kmcclary@hamjudo.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/09/97 11:23:59 AM-04/09/97 11:24:00 AM DeliveredDate: 04/09/97 11:24:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mulder2554@aol.com wrote: > I am very new to electronics [... pls help me get started and > point me at books, etc] The standard order to learning Electronics is: 0) Math for Electronics (early levels will just be algebra and trig, higher levels may require complex numbers, calc, diffe-q's, etc); 1) DC (Direct Current) circuits; 2) AC (Alternating Current) circuits; 3&4) Digital Signal Theory (1s and 0s); and Analog Signal Theory (voltages and waveforms). From here, people tend to diverge into either the Analog world (ie audio, radio transmission, microwaves, and the like), or the Digital world (boolean logic, microprocessors, protocols, digital networks, etc). It's best to learn both, but time, $$, and interest focus are always limiting factors. The other way to learn it is from a Math/Physics background. Start with the Physics of the components and Maxwell's Equations, and work up from there... Only for the hard core differential equation math fans, though. That path is great for deep understanding of the behavior of systems (for the theoretically inclined), but that school training sequence rarely gets into the "solder & sweat" hands-on tinkering stage, if at all. Not very "BEAM-ish" . Classical Robotics tends towards Analog near the "real world" I/O (sensors and actuators), and Digital in the internal processing, so you should do the 0-4 path outlined above. BEAM engines use Analog for the decision-making (charge a cap until you reach a voltage threshold, then do something with the charge "packet"). Resource for learning Electronics: Most large bookstores (and college bookstores) carry intro texts on Electronics. However, if I was to "choose one book for the desert island", it would be: "The ARRL Handbook for Radio Amateurs" (also called "The Radio Amateur's Handbook", ~$40 ). Though Ham Radio traditionally leans *way* toward the Analog/RF (Radio Frequency) and weak in micros (until the recent Packet Radio revolution), it is a good AC/DC tutorial book for the beginner and a heck of a reference work to keep on the shelf. These days it even comes with a diskette of simple PC programs to help the novices number crunch things. Work through the first few chapters and you'll know what questions to ask. Other resources such as books and parts are greatly detailed in the comp.robotics and sci.electronics FAQs. Pointers to them may be found on the web or in news.answers. (Beware though, the "99 projects" book often cited has a LOT of circuit typos.) Good luck! - Keith McClary K McClary YAAARC:Ypsi/AnnArbor Area Robotics Club "YAAARC: The sound you make as your robot rolls off of the workbench..." PS- "Mulder2554", Please include your full name in either your header or with a signature file so we know who we are talking to... Thanks! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256475.000FB7A7; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:51:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA21598 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:42:01 -0700 Received: from hogwild.hamjudo.com (hogwild.hamjudo.com [152.160.58.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11927 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:56:12 -0500 Received: (from kmcclary@localhost) by hogwild.hamjudo.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA02058; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:55:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith McClary To: Douglas Sasse cc: kmcclary@hamjudo.com, beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM help In-Reply-To: <71470.douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com From: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com Subject: Re: BEAM help PostedDate: 04/09/97 06:55:27 PM SendTo: douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us CopyTo: kmcclary@hamjudo.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/09/97 07:51:49 PM-04/09/97 07:51:50 PM DeliveredDate: 04/09/97 07:51:50 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Douglas Sasse wrote: > Keith, You only gave hime two ways, there is a 3rd, I don't know a.c.,d.c. > or math (just addtion), but give me a skematic and i can build it, no high > school just G.E.D. in '63' not everyone is an Eng. type or a 'HAM' op.! > regards, douglas@ic.mankato.mn.us True (and a very good point)! However the original question was: >>Mulder2554@aol.com wrote: >>> I am very new to electronics [... pls help me get started and >>> point me at books, etc] You can just learn to read a schematic, but without a basic understanding of the parts (which doesn't take long to learn), you lose a lot of the thrill of understanding what you just accomplished. Building by rote gets things made, but it's harder to build on your successes, or learn from your mistakes if you don't understand how it works. I wouldn't skip an intro to AC/DC circuits. That's not very tough, nor much of a time investment. Also, if it doesn't work first time, you're in trouble. Way back in Jr High I had built some advanced projects (far beyond my current tech understanding) that didn't work. Very frustrating, as I didn't have a mentor or anyone else that could help me at that time. Even the local Hams at the parts store couldn't figure it out. I found the projects over 10 years later (and fixed the bad parts - I had progressed), but it was a very dark lesson for me at the time. It made me stop making things for quite a while. The RA Handbook is a great intro to circuits and theory. I'm not saying he should become a Ham. *I'm* not a Ham, yet I use the book regularly, and get the latest copy every few years (it's updated annually). Go look at it, before you judge it. Even Elementary school kids have learned enough circuit theory from this book to pass the FCC Exams, and it's regularly used in Jr High and HS's. I think "Mulder" should be praised for the motivation in trying to learn the basics up front, and encouraged to continue. - Keith K McClary YAAARC-Ypsi/AnnArbor Area Robotics Club "I'm a Roboticist and I'm OK, I build all night and I work all day!" $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256475.0071E31F; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:43:57 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23756 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:34:25 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17063 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:23:32 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip134.cadvision.com [207.228.74.134]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id NAA263194; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:20:44 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970410132509.00dbbc60@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:25:09 -0600 To: Kevan Burnfield From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... PostedDate: 04/10/97 12:25:09 PM SendTo: kb@trimont.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/10/97 01:44:06 PM-04/10/97 01:44:07 PM DeliveredDate: 04/10/97 01:44:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:22 PM 4/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >Wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the big SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN >FRONTIERS episode this week on ROBOTS? I missed the first 15 minutes. Thought the Biped "walker" was amusing, with it's baby-steps and tether (wimp! ;-> In all, I most enjoyed the AUVS aerobot competition, but thought that most of the program was fluff. Stick to surgery, Hawkeye... Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256475.007F127B; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:07:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA24492 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:58:14 -0700 Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17815 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:30:40 -0500 Received: from ccshst01.cs.uoguelph.ca by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA282907694; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:28:14 -0400 Received: from localhost by ccshst01 with SMTP (1.37.109.20/16.2) id AA059647696; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:28:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:28:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Padraig M O'Cleirigh" X-Sender: pocleiri@ccshst01 To: Kevan Burnfield Cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: pocleiri@uoguelph.ca From: pocleiri@uoguelph.ca Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... PostedDate: 04/10/97 02:28:16 PM SendTo: kb@trimont.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/10/97 04:08:13 PM-04/10/97 04:08:13 PM DeliveredDate: 04/10/97 04:08:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Kevan Burnfield wrote: > Wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the big SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN > FRONTIERS episode this week on ROBOTS? > > > ----------------------- > Kevan Burnfield > Princeton NJ USA > > Graphics, HTML, and Assorted Web Related Stuff > > > I was not aware of the amount of success that bi-ped walkers were acheiving, it was very interesting. Any beam bi-peds? Hmmmmm, that would be fun! - Ciaran $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256476.00028103; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:27:21 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA24727 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:17:13 -0700 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18501 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:37:11 -0500 Received: from fmfs.reshall.ksu.edu (fmfs.reshall.ksu.edu [129.130.99.110]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id SAA11722 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:37:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <334D7A31.6466@ksu.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:39:29 -0500 From: Dean Hall Reply-To: dwhall@ksu.edu Organization: EGM Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... References: <3.0.1.32.19970410132509.00dbbc60@cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dwhall@ksu.edu From: dwhall@ksu.edu Subject: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America..... PostedDate: 04/10/97 04:39:29 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: dwhall@ksu.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/10/97 05:27:25 PM-04/10/97 05:27:26 PM DeliveredDate: 04/10/97 05:27:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > At 12:22 PM 4/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the big SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN > >FRONTIERS episode this week on ROBOTS? > In all, I most enjoyed the AUVS aerobot competition, but thought that most > of the program was fluff. Stick to surgery, Hawkeye... I don't get around to the tele much, but I was certainly proud that K-State (mi alma matter) was glimpsed. We've been in the top 3 for the past 3 years in that competition. Though, the Nomad isn't the best robotics going on campus. We also hold a 6.270 equivalent every year in April. !!Dean yes, K-State is in Kansas. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256476.006210CA; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:51:08 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA26437 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:41:23 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23691 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:14:06 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA17201 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09899 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:13:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:13:42 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Beam Toddlers (was: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America.....) SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Beam Toddlers (was: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America.....) PostedDate: 04/11/97 09:13:42 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/11/97 10:51:14 AM-04/11/97 10:51:16 AM DeliveredDate: 04/11/97 10:51:16 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >I was not aware of the amount of success that bi-ped walkers were >achieving, it was very interesting. Any beam bi-peds? Hmmmmm, that would >be fun! > > - Ciaran A BEAM biped would certainly have enough time between steps to figure out how it ought to maintain balance. Too bad it'd probably fall down during a step anyways... Zoz ---------------------- John Atwood deVries II zozzles@lanl.gov, zozzles@empire.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256476.0073F14C; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:06:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27177 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:56:51 -0700 Received: from mail.euronet.nl (mail.euronet.nl [194.134.0.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24878 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:51:11 -0500 Received: from ROG.euronet.nl (p119.mas.euronet.nl [194.134.3.55]) by mail.euronet.nl (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04365; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:50:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970411195216.006e5f20@mail.euronet.nl> X-Sender: ragman@mail.euronet.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:52:16 +0200 To: , mars-talk@footfalls.com, Mot-68HC11-Apps@freeware.mcu.motsps.com, beam@webconn.com, srs@lists.hhhh.org From: Daniel Roganti Subject: Search for Rubber conductive strips SMTPOriginator: ragman@euronet.nl From: ragman@euronet.nl Subject: Search for Rubber conductive strips PostedDate: 04/11/97 12:52:16 PM SendTo: CHIPDIR-L@fatcity.com,mars-talk@footfalls.com,Mot-68HC11-Apps@freeware.mcu.motsps.com,beam@webconn.com,srs@lists.hhhh.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/11/97 02:06:29 PM-04/11/97 02:06:30 PM DeliveredDate: 04/11/97 02:06:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, Anyone know of a Distributor for the strips of conductive rubber which provide proportional resistance ? The material is the similiar as found on the button contacts inside TV remotes. The resistance is proportional when pressure is applied perpendicularly. Just as with conductive foam. I've worked with these in the past, but only from the original manufacturer of the products, Roland, Yamaha, or Korg. I haven't been able to find a distributor for these, so I can order in quantity, because it's quite apparent they're expensive from the manufacturer (as it is with their components). The rubberized strips are approx. 4mm wide and 2mm thick. The length varied depending on which product it was used in. Then, it was sandwiched between 2 electrode layers to the microcontroller for feedback. I found this material to be very resilient than static conductive foam. I intend to use these instead of strain gauges for feedback in my future bipedal robot. My current biped doesn't require it because it relies only on static stability. Any help would be appreciated. Daniel Robotics website http://www.euronet.nl/users/ragman +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ NAME: Daniel Roganti EMAIL: ragman@euronet.nl SMAIL: Oud Wulvenlaan 35-2, 3523XS Utrecht, Netherlands, Europe WWW: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ragman Back Home: Margate, Florida Hometown: Elmont, New York .....exploring cyberspace before it runs out of space..... +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256477.005AD491; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:32:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA29048 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:22:14 -0700 Received: from relay-finch.mail.demon.net (relay-finch.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.63]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA30878 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:22:27 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by relay-finch.mail.demon.net id aa0012930; 12 Apr 97 16:06 BST Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:46:26 GMT From: Bob Mottram Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <1616@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: BEAM hoppers X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 13 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: BEAM hoppers PostedDate: 04/12/97 08:46:26 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/12/97 09:32:18 AM-04/12/97 09:32:19 AM DeliveredDate: 04/12/97 09:32:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Has anyone every tried to achieve a dynamic hop (kangaroo-style) with a beam robot? I remember seeing something vaguely hopper-like on Andrew Miller's stall at Robotix 97, but never saw it actually move. Also the legs on his machine looked fixed rather than compliant (for energy efficiency). -- Bob Mottram "Perfect Planning Prevents Poor Performance" Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk http://www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647A.00450AAF; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 05:34:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04339 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 05:24:32 -0700 Received: from pop.life.uiuc.edu (pop.life.uiuc.edu [130.126.49.71]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA24590 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:44:09 -0500 Received: from [130.126.48.101] by pop.life.uiuc.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA18695; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:44:02 -0500 X-Sender: mwvaugh@students.uiuc.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:47:47 -0500 To: beam@webconn.com From: Matt Vaughn Subject: Off-topic posts, DIE! SMTPOriginator: mwvaugh@uiuc.edu From: mwvaugh@uiuc.edu Subject: Off-topic posts, DIE! PostedDate: 04/15/97 04:47:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/15/97 05:34:15 AM-04/15/97 05:34:15 AM DeliveredDate: 04/15/97 05:34:15 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Listen, I subscribe to this list because I want to hear about BEAM topics, not kids with cancer, not stupid jokes, but robots, and I think a lot of others feel the same way. I am absolutely SICK of seeing Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: in my BEAM mailbox. If you're grown up enough to subscribe to this list, please be grown up enough to refrain from posting off-topic material. This place is starting to look like one of the stupid chat rooms on AOL.. Spam and dirty jokes. End it now, PLEASE! Matthew Vaughn mwvaugh@uiuc.edu -Basic Research Is What I'm Doing When I Don't Know What I'm Doing- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This Message Was Composed and Sent Using An Apple Newton Messagepad 120 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647A.005FACB1; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:25:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05189 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:15:24 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25948 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:30:07 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA01889; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:29:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18423; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:29:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:29:35 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com, pargo@lanl.gov From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Workshop SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Workshop PostedDate: 04/15/97 08:29:35 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,pargo@lanl.gov $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/15/97 10:25:07 AM-04/15/97 10:25:07 AM DeliveredDate: 04/15/97 10:25:07 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Since the Lab posted the following as part of their April 9th bulletin, I've got to presume that this event is still a "go." It is just that other than a note from Richard Weait and another from Mark Dalton, I really haven't heard much. Los Alamos welcomes student robot builders LOS ALAMOS, N. M., April 9, 1996 - Students from junior high to college will build mechanical creatures with some of North America's top robot experts during a workshop at Los Alamos from April 17-19. More students are welcome, but they should register soon for Los Alamos National Laboratory's BEAM Robotics Workshop, scheduled for 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. each day at the Pueblo School complex off Diamond Drive. The Laboratory will provide free robot kits and expert help so students can build a variety of robots, from simple solarollers and butterfly-like solarflappers to more advanced photopoppers that follow light and use touch sensors to detect walls and objects in their paths. Advanced robotics students will build complex walkers over two or three days. "On Saturday, we'll put on some demonstrations, and have races, sumo wrestling, artistry and other competitions," said Paul Argo of Los Alamos National Laboratory's Nonproliferation and International Security Division. Some robot kits will be available for purchase if adults want to participate in the workshop, Argo said. Argo said this is the sixth year of the workshops and competition, and the third year the Laboratory's Science Education Outreach office has sponsored the robotics event. The acronym BEAM stands for biology, electronics, aesthetics and mechanics, and BEAM robots are modeled more on the simple, repetitive biological processes of insects than the complex, human-like operations that are the goal of traditional robotics. "Previous BEAM workshops generated a lot of enthusiasm, and we are bringing in top roboticists to help students learn the details of robot construction and design," Argo said. Students should bring broken electronic devices such as Walkman tape recorders, toy robots, discarded motors, gears, capacitors, microcircuits, transistors, solar cells and other seeming "junk" with robotic potential, along with their own tools, such as soldering irons, miniature snips and pliers and safety glasses. "The workshop is a supportive environment where we can all reach new levels of robot construction," Argo said. "The mentors we've invited are especially well suited to turn society's electronic discards into interesting robots." Among those who will help the students are Mark Tilden of Los Alamos' Physics Division, who has achieved international fame as the founder of BEAM robotics; Andrew Miller of the University of Waterloo; Dave Hrynkiw of Solarbotics; Michael Weiat of Ontario, Canada; and Argo and Mark Dalton of Los Alamos. Students who want to attend the workshop should call Argo immediately at (505) 667-8355 or send him e-mail at . More information about the workshop is available on the World Wide Web at . ---------------------- John Atwood deVries II zozzles@lanl.gov, zozzles@empire.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647A.0074E4A0; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:16:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06149 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:07:11 -0700 Received: from ipo.ipoline.com (ipo.ipoline.com [206.47.42.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28189 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:26:16 -0500 Received: from pm6f15.ipoline.com by ipo.ipoline.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23048; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:26:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:26:32 -0400 Message-Id: <9704152026.AA23048@ipo.ipoline.com> X-Sender: sumyee@ipoline.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Sandra Mau Subject: Science Fair SMTPOriginator: sumyee@ipoline.com From: sumyee@ipoline.com Subject: Science Fair PostedDate: 04/15/97 01:26:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/15/97 02:16:58 PM-04/15/97 02:16:58 PM DeliveredDate: 04/15/97 02:16:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US My friend and I recently did a science project on BEAM robotics. And guess what? We received an honourable mention at the regional science fair, so we get to go on to the metro-wide science fair! I wonder if anyone else has done a project on BEAM. Just wanted to share the good news. SM $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647A.00772E02; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:41:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06275 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:32:09 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28309 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:37:19 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA08309; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22428; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:37:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9704152026.AA23048@ipo.ipoline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:36:48 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Re: Science Fair Cc: sumyee@ipoline.com SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Science Fair PostedDate: 04/15/97 01:36:48 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: sumyee@ipoline.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/15/97 02:41:48 PM-04/15/97 02:41:49 PM DeliveredDate: 04/15/97 02:41:49 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > My friend and I recently did a science project on BEAM robotics. >And guess what? We received an honourable mention at the regional science >fair, so we get to go on to the metro-wide science fair! I wonder if anyone >else has done a project on BEAM. Just wanted to share the good news. >SM Congratulations! Well done! Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647A.0081D652; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:38:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06804 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:28:30 -0700 Received: from relay-7.mail.demon.net (relay-7.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29800 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:08:46 -0500 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk ([194.222.137.155]) by relay-6.mail.demon.net id aa0608219; 15 Apr 97 22:08 BST Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:17:02 GMT From: Bob Mottram Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <1636@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Hand-holding chains X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 22 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Hand-holding chains PostedDate: 04/15/97 02:17:02 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/15/97 04:38:19 PM-04/15/97 04:38:21 PM DeliveredDate: 04/15/97 04:38:21 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I recently read a paper in the SAB conference proceedings which described how robots could be made to form into chains rather like the trails followed by forraging ants. The robots communicated with one another in a very simple fashion by "tapping" each other. If a robot actively bumped into something and then passively received a bump in return then it could tell that it had become part of the chain. The general idea was that robots with only bump and very short range infrared sensors formed themselves into a long chain, and other robots could then use the chain as a means of navigating to and from "food" sources (in this case picking up pucks and returning them to base). Has anyone ever tried this sort of thing with BEAM robots? -- Bob Mottram "You roll around Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk and you groove like a baggy" http://www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk - Happy Mondays $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647C.00245AE7; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:37:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11287 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:27:29 -0700 Received: from hogwild.hamjudo.com (hogwild.hamjudo.com [152.160.58.4]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA07326 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:21:37 -0500 Received: (from kmcclary@localhost) by hogwild.hamjudo.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA22618; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:20:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:20:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith McClary To: beam@webconn.com cc: kmcclary@hamjudo.com Subject: Re: BEAM hoppers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com From: kmcclary@hogwild.hamjudo.com Subject: Re: BEAM hoppers PostedDate: 04/16/97 10:20:53 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: kmcclary@hamjudo.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/16/97 11:37:08 PM-04/16/97 11:37:08 PM DeliveredDate: 04/16/97 11:37:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Has anyone every tried to achieve a dynamic hop (kangaroo-style) > with a beam robot? The problem comes in free flight scenarios. Most flight strategies require active glide (or orientation) control. However, if you arrange the geometry to be either self righting (ie a Hamster Ball with a flat spot) or self stabilizing in flight (ie a Badmitton Birdie), then it would be a better candidate for a BEAM solution. Kangaroo Hopping (TRI-pedal [two legs and a tail], front pair driven together) is a very difficult hopping style for a BEAM machine. The tail is an extremely dynamic stabilizer during the flight phase. Low Frog Hopping (non-freeflight, front leg elbows splayed for stability, back pair driven, pulse variations determine hop direction) shouldn't be difficult in this context. The "low altitude" hop is self-stabilizing on the landing if you either have leg compliance or accept a little "fallen hubcap rattling". Flea Hopping (wind a BIG "ligament" spring and let it go) is VERY BEAM-ish if you don't mind crash landings, and the machine can right itself from any orientation after the landing. The problem is, if the solar cells are face down upon landing and your only charge packet was just spent, you're hosed. IMHO, a "Self-launching Badmitton Birdie - Flea" hybrid would be the best candidate of all for a BEAM machine. Wind a big spring over time (clockwork mechanism), shoot itself into the air in the desired direction, let the machine right itself midflight by airflow, and land on compliant Lunar Lander legs. This insures the solar cells in the middle are face-up upon landing for a recharge. Q: Can the mech weight be made light enough to "fly", yet strong enough to survive the landing with current BEAM technology? Fleas do this by keeping the scale small. Assuming we have the technology, who wants to be the first to hack a Badmitton Birdie? (I've got too many irons in the fire now to try it myself... :-) - Keith K McClary YAAARC: Ypsi/Ann Arbor Area Robotics Club A Flea and a Fly in a flue... were trapped, so what could they do? Said the Flea, "Let us fly!" Said the Fly, "Let us flee!" So they flew through a flaw in the flue... (One of the few G-Rated Limerics known to mankind.) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647C.004B4E9B; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:42:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA11646 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:32:55 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09692 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:53:42 -0500 Received: from default (cisco1-61.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.61]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03450 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33561EBB.12FB@golden.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:59:39 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM Innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam mailing list Subject: Re: BEAM hoppers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: BEAM hoppers PostedDate: 04/17/97 05:59:39 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/17/97 06:42:37 AM-04/17/97 06:42:38 AM DeliveredDate: 04/17/97 06:42:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > Has anyone every tried to achieve a dynamic hop (kangaroo-style) > > with a beam robot? >The problem comes in free flight scenarios. Most flight strategies >require active glide (or orientation) control. Actually that's not the main problem..... The fact is getting somthing high enough of the ground to require glide capabilities is REAL tuff.... Power to wieght is the biggist problem facing hoppers or jumpers.... I've built a couple of machines (a flea and a Kangaroo) based around the sam e sort of mechanics in order to test a few theories but unless I find motors that Pack a LOT mor punch at lower wieghts I'm not likly to to get better results.. (Although I am intreiged by the pnuematic "muscles") I agree with Kieth on one apect though Kangaroo style hopping has a fundamentally stable nature and it's what i'd like to explore a little more.. The trick comes in storing a LOT of potential energy and releasing it all in one VERY quick burst.... I achieved this with my SolarFlea (and subsiquently with my Solar Kangaroo) by using a worm drive mechanisim with Half the teeth shaved off the follower so the worm wolud bring a crank shaft around a little past half and then the teeth would run out and the spring was alowed to snap the leg down... I'll see if I can put together an animated gif for my web site if folks are interested... It's the didrt simplest way I could come up with for basic hopping.. Although It only goes about 1/4" n the air(power to wieght again)... I've never gotten the chance to scale the idea up.... This is another case were control system is very much secondary to the mechanics of the device. Build somthing that can jump higher than 1/2 inch first then worry about getting it to do it acuratly.... One of the things that BEAM is all about is holistic solutions..... The body and brain have to converge on one another... The body of a hopper is far tougher to achieve than the brain trust me... But I love it if sombody would prove me wrong.... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647C.005357B9; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:10:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA11854 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:00:42 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10143 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:58:49 -0500 Received: from default (cisco1-67.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.67]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11002 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33562E04.443C@golden.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:04:52 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM Innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Hoppers and such.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Hoppers and such.... PostedDate: 04/17/97 07:04:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/17/97 08:10:23 AM-04/17/97 08:10:24 AM DeliveredDate: 04/17/97 08:10:24 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hers that animation I promissed... http://www.golden.net/~amiller/flea.html Note This is NOT the only solution It's just the easiest I could come up with... all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647D.001FF0E7; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:48:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA15067 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:39:15 -0700 Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net (sweden-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.50]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03661 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:09:49 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust51.Max5.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.119.179]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA29997 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335701CA.6A16@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:08:26 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: nervous net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: nervous net PostedDate: 04/17/97 10:08:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/17/97 10:48:56 PM-04/17/97 10:48:58 PM DeliveredDate: 04/17/97 10:48:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US mike here, I've tried to bild my first nervous net but it failed. I think it is because I used 74hct14 hex inverting schmitt trigger from radio shack, the guy thier said it would probably work and it was the closest thing he had to the recomended 74c14 from the AM Inovations page if thats my problem please write to me at vidalfamily@earthlink.net thank you:) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647D.00474FC9; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 05:58:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15440 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 05:49:17 -0700 Received: from golden.net (golden.golden.net [199.166.210.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05600 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:01:14 -0500 Received: from default (cisco2-95.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.95]) by golden.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA09889; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33576370.6479@golden.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:05:04 -0400 From: Andrew Miller Organization: AM Innovations X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John A. de Vries II" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Beam Toddlers (was: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America.....) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: amiller@golden.net From: amiller@golden.net Subject: Re: Beam Toddlers (was: Re: Thoughts on Scientific America.....) PostedDate: 04/18/97 05:05:04 AM SendTo: zozzles@lanl.gov CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/18/97 05:58:59 AM-04/18/97 05:59:00 AM DeliveredDate: 04/18/97 05:59:00 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US John A. de Vries II wrote: > > >I was not aware of the amount of success that bi-ped walkers were > >achieving, it was very interesting. Any beam bi-peds? Hmmmmm, that would > >be fun! > > > > - Ciaran > > A BEAM biped would certainly have enough time between steps to figure out > how it ought to maintain balance. Too bad it'd probably fall down during a > step anyways... > > Actually Walking is just controled falling over.... I've done a Little experimentation with Bi-ped stuff and have a Fantastic design in mined for a two legs and a tail "T-Rex" type bot... But I don't have the money or the time grrrr..:-[ it's doable it's just REAL tuff.. all4nw $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647E.003F7733; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 04:33:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA18969 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 04:23:34 -0700 Received: from itl.net (hades.itl.net [194.145.1.31]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA13479 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:57:20 -0500 Received: from abc1 by itl.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA13358; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:56:51 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:56:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199704191056.LAA13358@itl.net> X-Sender: ince@hades.itl.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Robin Ince Subject: BEAM ideas SMTPOriginator: ince@itl.net From: ince@itl.net Subject: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/19/97 03:56:51 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/19/97 04:33:26 AM-04/19/97 04:33:26 AM DeliveredDate: 04/19/97 04:33:26 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I recently purchased a Photopopper from Solarbotics and while I was interested I was a little disappointed at how slow it moved, and how difficult it was to observe behaviour without time lapse photography. I then thought that this is because not enough power comes from the solar cell for it to move quickly which is fair enough. However a battery would defeat the object of having a self-sustaining life form thing. BEAM is supposed to be like nature so I thought about how nature does it. In nature no animal gets enough energy from the sun to move and I thought there could be two reasons for this. 1) it is not possible for an advance moving life form to survive on the energy from the sun or 2) life forms that do survive on energy from the sun do not need to move to find food I thought about this for a while and came up with the following ideas. 2) life forms that do not move ie plants are still phototropic, they just grow towards the light source. would it be possible to make BEAM plant which would have some sort of stem and a solar panel on top and a capacitor below etc. and some sort of system of tilting the stem. then this could track the sun across the sky much as plants do and perhaps with its final burst of energyin the evening move the solar panel down to a protected position Light sensors and solar panel-> *--------* | Some sort of tiltable stem -> | | circuitry, capacitor etc, -> ^^^^^^^^ I am not that sure whether this would be practically possible or how you would make a stem that tilts or some other way of angling the solar panel towards the sun in the sky. 1) if nature cannot get a feasible moving life form from the sun then I doubt if we can. instead animals that move take energy from plants or other animals. i thought it might be interesting if someone could do this with BEAM building up a basic food chain of producers - consumers and perhaps even secondary consumers. i thought for producers there could be something like my plant idea above, but perhaps without the moving solar panel. they would have the capacitor at ground level with the wires clerealy accescible. the grazer would have much larger storage capacitor and would go from plant to plant with electrical contacts getting the current from the plant capacitor. again i dont know enough about electronics to know if this is possible. ------------- <- solar panel | capacitor | <- stem | | **** | | | circuitry -> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^| | <- BEAM grazer makes contact here to drain capacitor a carnivore might then be able to connect to a grazer, either by the same contacts it uses to feed off plants or by another weak spot built in to its back or something to drain that. a more vicious design might also have clippers to cut off the capacitor of prey or a competitor. the main practicle problem that i can see with these ideas is how can one robot recognise a plant or another robot. perhaps it could be touch, or magnets or a pattern of LED's or something. the markings or attration would have to be detailed enough for the predator robot to locate the correct area of attack and line up the contacts etc. again i do not really know if any of this is possible - the robots would certainly have to be advanced to have so many instincts built in, perhaps a microprocessor might even be necessary. anyway they are just ideas i had while i was going to sleep...if anyone has any comments or suggestions i would be interested to hear them Robin Ince $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647E.006A29A5; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:19:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19289 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:09:55 -0700 Received: from itl.net (hades.itl.net [194.145.1.31]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15884 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:18:34 -0500 Received: from abc1 by itl.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA29272; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:18:03 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:18:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199704191818.TAA29272@itl.net> X-Sender: ince@hades.itl.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Robin Ince Subject: BEAM Intelligence SMTPOriginator: ince@itl.net From: ince@itl.net Subject: BEAM Intelligence PostedDate: 04/19/97 11:18:03 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/19/97 12:19:37 PM-04/19/97 12:19:37 PM DeliveredDate: 04/19/97 12:19:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US first of all when I sent my last message to the list earlier today i received about 7 (so far) replies of unavailable addresses and delivery failures. should/could this be diverted by the mailing list software somehow....i am sure it must be very annoying for regular posters. there was one thing i forgot to put in my other message. I was introduced to BEAM by an article in the Connected supplement of the UK 'Daily Telegraph' newspaper. it covered robotix 97 though its main topic was BEAM, which it refered to as 'robobiology'. one point that i thought very interesting was where it says robots currently have slug intelligence, but will have cat intelligence in 5 years time. the exact quote is: what they lack in computing power they make up for with learning ability - they can even teach each other. Warwick (Professor Kevin Warwick, Department of Cybernetics, Reading University) says todays robots have the brainpower of slugs and will be comparible to cats in five years. Can this be right? It seems to me a huge gap between slugs and cats - could BEAM ever recreate the consciousness of a cat, the emotional responces, learning ability, instincts etc. also the physical problems of hardware for the vision and hearing of a cat. perhaps he didnt mean the actual ability, emotions and consciousness of a cat but just the reasoning/learning ability. how would this manifest itself, be tested ...... Robin Ince $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647E.00802243; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:19:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA19464 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:09:37 -0700 Received: from fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (fuzzgun.demon.co.uk [194.222.137.155]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA17384 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:24:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:50:32 GMT From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk (Bob Mottram) Reply-To: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <1667@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk> To: ince@itl.net Cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 34 SMTPOriginator: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk From: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence PostedDate: 04/19/97 03:50:32 PM SendTo: ince@itl.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/19/97 04:19:36 PM-04/19/97 04:19:37 PM DeliveredDate: 04/19/97 04:19:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In message <199704191818.TAA29272@itl.net> Robin Ince writes: > first of all when I sent my last message to the list earlier today i > received about 7 (so far) replies of unavailable addresses and delivery > failures. should/could this be diverted by the mailing list software > somehow....i am sure it must be very annoying for regular posters. Yes, I've found this too. > what they lack in computing power they make up for with learning ability - > they can even teach each other. Warwick (Professor Kevin Warwick, Department > of Cybernetics, Reading University) says todays robots have the brainpower > of slugs and will be comparible to cats in five years. I've read Mr Warwick's learned tome, and think that some of the predictions which he makes about what robots may be capable of in the near future are somewhat unrealistic. Even 'cat' intelligence within five years (a la CAM-brain) is VERY ambitious both in terms of computational and mechanical complexity. Having said that though, I do like his 'seven dwarfs' robots, and have written a simulation of their behavior (which will be on my web site soon). > Can this be right? It seems to me a huge gap between slugs and cats - could Scale is certainly a problem. Monolithic solutions work well for small applications, but cannot be easily applied to larger ones. -- Bob Mottram "Just what is it that you want to do?" Bob@fuzzgun.demon.co.uk http://www.fuzzgun.demon.co.uk $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647F.0028602A; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:21:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19803 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:11:19 -0700 Received: from mail.euronet.nl (mail.euronet.nl [194.134.0.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20077 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 02:04:02 -0500 Received: from ROG.euronet.nl (p012.mas.euronet.nl [194.134.3.18]) by mail.euronet.nl (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05846; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:03:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970420070520.0072d0a4@mail.euronet.nl> X-Sender: ragman@mail.euronet.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:05:20 +0200 To: trp-talk@footfalls.com, tcrobots@orbis.net, pics@parallaxinc.com, CHIPDIR-L@fatcity.com, mars-talk@footfalls.com, Mot-68HC11-Apps@freeware.mcu.motsps.com, beam@webconn.com, srs@lists.hhhh.org From: Daniel Roganti Subject: Re: what type of Strain Gauges SMTPOriginator: ragman@euronet.nl From: ragman@euronet.nl Subject: Re: what type of Strain Gauges PostedDate: 04/20/97 12:05:20 AM SendTo: trp-talk@footfalls.com,tcrobots@orbis.net,pics@parallaxinc.com,CHIPDIR-L@fatcity.com,mars-talk@footfalls.com,Mot-68HC11-Apps@freeware.mcu.motsps.com,beam@webconn.com,srs@lists.hhhh.org $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/20/97 12:21:16 AM-04/20/97 12:21:17 AM DeliveredDate: 04/20/97 12:21:17 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:24 PM 4/19/97 -0700, Jim Love wrote: > >Where did you get the conductive rubber? >-- ATTENTION: If you get multiple copies of this , Sorry !, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- I came across this material by accident, it was being used in another application. Several years ago , I had worked at a repair center for music studio equipment. In all the digital synthesizers,pianos, and keyboards is this conductive rubber strip. This is found inside , under the entire length of the piano keys. This is used to provide what's called the 'AfterTouch' feedback. The force from striking the piano keys is translated into intensity of the sound. There are other functions which were programmed to take advantage of this. Such as vibrato, tremelo,etc for those who are familiar with musical instruments. The various vendors are ROLAND, KORG, YAMAHA, KAWAI, KURZWEIL, etc. They , unfortunately, don't offer reasonable prices with any of their components. So, I'm sure there would be a direct source for this material , at least a distributor. The resistance is proportional to the pressure applied perpendicularly (by compression) I found this to be very resilient than the conductive foam used for IC's. This is designed to withstand the banging keys from the musician. Also, it's very sensitive. The built in diagnostics display the parameters of the all the functions. It detects the softest touch I give on the piano key. So now , I'm using it for my biped robots as strain guages. But I don't have enough to experiment with. Any help with sources is appreciated. Daniel +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ NAME: Daniel Roganti EMAIL: ragman@euronet.nl SMAIL: Oud Wulvenlaan 35-2, 3523XS Utrecht, Netherlands, Europe WWW: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ragman Back Home: Margate, Florida Hometown: Elmont, New York .....exploring cyberspace before it runs out of space..... +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647F.0070B637; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:31:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA20209 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:21:09 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23725 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:50:41 -0500 Received: from marsellus.acl.lanl.gov (mwd116957@marsellus.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.118]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.7.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17065; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:50:33 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by marsellus.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.6.4) id NAA25518; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704201950.NAA25518@marsellus.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence To: ince@itl.net (Robin Ince) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <199704191818.TAA29272@itl.net> from "Robin Ince" at Apr 19, 97 07:18:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence PostedDate: 04/20/97 12:50:31 PM SendTo: ince@itl.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/20/97 01:31:17 PM-04/20/97 01:31:17 PM DeliveredDate: 04/20/97 01:31:17 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > first of all when I sent my last message to the list earlier today i > received about 7 (so far) replies of unavailable addresses and delivery > failures. should/could this be diverted by the mailing list software > somehow....i am sure it must be very annoying for regular posters. > As I have said numerous times, Please Send these requests to: beam-request@webconn.com And yes, I have asked for the e-mail list provider to modify this so that we will get these filtered out. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825647F.0081CE7A; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:37:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA20384 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:28:10 -0700 Received: from draconis.spd.louisville.edu (draconis.spd.louisville.edu [136.165.99.35]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24695 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:57:22 -0500 Received: (from aohamm01@localhost) by draconis.spd.louisville.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28330; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:57:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anthony O. Hammond" Message-Id: <199704202257.SAA28330@draconis.spd.louisville.edu> Subject: Re: BEAM ideas To: beam@webconn.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: aohamm01@draconis.spd.louisville.edu (Anthony O. Hammond) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: aohamm01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu From: aohamm01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu Subject: Re: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/20/97 03:57:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: aohamm01@draconis.spd.louisville.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/20/97 04:38:02 PM-04/20/97 04:38:03 PM DeliveredDate: 04/20/97 04:38:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US 4/20 < In response to the letter from Robin Ince on 4/19> "Geraniums" are one of the ideas that a friend of mine (Dave H.) and I plan to toy with, along with whatever else pops up these next few semesters. They could provide, as you said, an alternate source of energy - thus evolving the basic photovore to a new type of omnivore. ... and to who knows where from there? One possible way to implement such an idea is set it up to where the contacts at one height would ALWAYS be the positive voltage, and another set of contacts would always be the ground reference for all objects involved. This way, the energy transfer (theoretically) would always serve to equalize the energy between the two entities to some point in between. But this might be more analogous to stealing food from the weak rather than feeding on them (which isn't such a bad idea to play with either). The above "energy-stealing" concept could also be applied to the idea of herd-dom. From any nature channel on cable, it can be seen that the herd mantality can be beneficial to "the group." If several creatures were made with the "energy-sharing" principle (previously called "energy-stealing" principle) in mind, as well as the natural instinct to hang around and occasionally bump into their siblings, they might all be able to benefit from this set up. maybe not. But... from what I have gathered of the BEAM philosophy (or somewhere else along the line), is that the idea is to avoid the creation of pathetibots that cannot function outside of their little testing world. I just finished up a project with 3 other students where we built a vehicle to compete in a specific competition for IEEE SECon. The playing field is 12 feet by 12 feet, so once we put away the field, the pile-o-parts will be useless! So setting restrictions on electrode heights and polarities and other things like that may be getting away from the original idea. This may not be such a bad thing, but specializing the creatures to a certain environment too much, although it may seem like a new twist or an improvement, may actually be a step or two backwards. But keeping with the healthy philosophy that's been used so far on this list-serv, try it and see. We'll report anything we find as soon as we can. Tony H. *- K.I.S.S. should be implemented first and foremost. You can always add stuff that will make it quit working later on. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.000D3569; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:24:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20545 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:14:36 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25382 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:01:30 -0500 Received: from transitory59.lanl.gov (transitory59.lanl.gov [128.165.7.141]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA00920; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:01:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970420170606.2bbf3f6e@esh-mail.lanl.gov> X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:06:06 To: beam@webconn.com, ince@itl.net From: "John A. deVries II" Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence In-Reply-To: <199704191818.TAA29272@itl.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: BEAM Intelligence PostedDate: 04/20/97 10:06:06 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,ince@itl.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/20/97 07:24:22 PM-04/20/97 07:24:22 PM DeliveredDate: 04/20/97 07:24:22 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:18 PM 4/19/97 +0100, John Ince: >first of all when I sent my last message to the list earlier today i >received about 7 (so far) replies of unavailable addresses and delivery >failures. One would think that 7 failures is fairly awful -- personally, I don't like receiving them although I merely delete them. Perhaps it would be instructive to note that 7 failures would mean about 241 successes. Until recent communication with Mr. Dalton, I had no clue how big this list is. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.005C4EE0; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:48:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA21619 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:38:23 -0700 Received: from cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca (cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca [142.110.131.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29786 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:19:02 -0500 Received: from DN-RELAY by cgate.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #20584) id <01IHYNAV6G6O8WWEBN@cgate.sait.ab.ca> for beam@webconn.com; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:17:37 MST Received: from el.sait.ab.ca (silica.el.sait.ab.ca) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #15163) with SMTP id <01IHYNBS73DS8WXYGB@acdm.sait.ab.ca>; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:18:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by el.sait.ab.ca (SMI-8.6/EL-NNL-SAIT-SMI-SVR4) id JAA27619; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:12:07 -0600 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:12:07 -0600 (MDT) From: "Craig Maynard (EE)" Subject: Re: BEAM ideas In-reply-to: <199704191056.LAA13358@itl.net> To: Robin Ince Cc: beam@webconn.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca From: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca Subject: Re: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/21/97 08:12:07 AM SendTo: ince@itl.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 09:48:37 AM-04/21/97 09:48:38 AM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 09:48:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Robin... It's been done! I've got a little kit out called CYBUG, which is a very active little artificial lifeform. The premise is, as you say, that any animated animal lifeforms on earth cannot rely strictly on solar energy for nutrient, but use a food chain where low energy-level lifeforms such as plants gather energy from the sun, and higher energy creatures feed off them or other animals. The cybugs are phototropic when hungry, and photophobic when full, and can be tuned to many activity levels. Although they still have no micro-processor on-board, they may have have very animalistic behaviour. A lot of folks have modified the CYBUG's behaviour to chase and draw energy from other critters. They have even created forms which attach themselves to the power take-offs on other cybugs and not let h`go. ( They become, in effect, parasites. ) They are extremely active ( rather like a gerbil with a caffine buzz ) and can run off nicads ( long feed time and very long exploration time ) or with capacitors as thier main storage ) where they last about 2 minutes before they run to the feed-trough and re-charge. In capacitor mode, I have cybugs which have lived for days at a time before I shut them down. They work _very_ well and are an interesting parallel to life science. Thanks for your question, Robin Craig Maynard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- J. Craig Maynard W C R G Information Technology Dept Western Canadian Southern Alberta Institute of Tech, Robot Games 1301-16th Ave NW _____ Calgary, Alberta, Canada ---- - _|___|_ craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca T2M-0L4 -- ( ) Tel: (403) 284-8401 --- O--O--O Fax: (403) 284-8184 " Promoting Science and Technology through Robotics " Home Page: http://www.starcard.com/wcrg EVENT DATE: Sunday May 24, 1997 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Robin Ince wrote: > > I recently purchased a Photopopper from Solarbotics and while I was > interested I was a little disappointed at how slow it moved, and how > difficult it was to observe behaviour without time lapse photography. > > I then thought that this is because not enough power comes from the solar > cell for it to move quickly which is fair enough. However a battery would > defeat the object of having a self-sustaining life form thing. BEAM is > supposed to be like nature so I thought about how nature does it. In nature > no animal gets enough energy from the sun to move and I thought there could > be two reasons for this. > 1) it is not possible for an advance moving life form to survive on the > energy from the sun or > 2) life forms that do survive on energy from the sun do not need to move to > find food > > I thought about this for a while and came up with the following ideas. > 2) life forms that do not move ie plants are still phototropic, they just > grow towards the light source. would it be possible to make BEAM plant which > would have some sort of stem and a solar panel on top and a capacitor below > etc. and some sort of system of tilting the stem. then this could track the > sun across the sky much as plants do and perhaps with its final burst of > energyin the evening move the solar panel down to a protected position > > Light sensors and solar panel-> *--------* > | > Some sort of tiltable stem -> | > | > circuitry, capacitor etc, -> ^^^^^^^^ > I am not that sure whether this would be practically possible or how you > would make a stem that tilts or some other way of angling the solar panel > towards the sun in the sky. > > 1) if nature cannot get a feasible moving life form from the sun then I > doubt if we can. instead animals that move take energy from plants or other > animals. i thought it might be interesting if someone could do this with > BEAM building up a basic food chain of producers - consumers and perhaps > even secondary consumers. > > i thought for producers there could be something like my plant idea above, > but perhaps without the moving solar panel. they would have the capacitor at > ground level with the wires clerealy accescible. the grazer would have much > larger storage capacitor and would go from plant to plant with electrical > contacts getting the current from the plant capacitor. again i dont know > enough about electronics to know if this is possible. > > ------------- <- solar panel > | capacitor > | <- stem | > | **** > | | | > circuitry -> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^| | <- BEAM grazer makes > contact here to drain capacitor > > a carnivore might then be able to connect to a grazer, either by the same > contacts it uses to feed off plants or by another weak spot built in to its > back or something to drain that. a more vicious design might also have > clippers to cut off the capacitor of prey or a competitor. > > the main practicle problem that i can see with these ideas is how can one > robot recognise a plant or another robot. perhaps it could be touch, or > magnets or a pattern of LED's or something. the markings or attration would > have to be detailed enough for the predator robot to locate the correct area > of attack and line up the contacts etc. > > again i do not really know if any of this is possible - the robots would > certainly have to be advanced to have so many instincts built in, perhaps a > microprocessor might even be necessary. > anyway they are just ideas i had while i was going to sleep...if anyone has > any comments or suggestions i would be interested to hear them > > Robin Ince > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.00689D42; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:02:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22516 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:52:58 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30779 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:59:43 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts69ip220.cadvision.com [207.228.75.220]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id LAA153942; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:57:25 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970421114738.00de73c8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:47:38 -0600 To: Robin Ince , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM ideas In-Reply-To: <199704191056.LAA13358@itl.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/21/97 10:47:38 AM SendTo: ince@itl.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 12:02:51 PM-04/21/97 12:02:52 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 12:02:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:56 AM 4/19/97 +0100, Robin Ince wrote: >I thought about this for a while and came up with the following ideas. >2) life forms that do not move ie plants are still phototropic, they just >grow towards the light source. would it be possible to make BEAM plant which >would have some sort of stem and a solar panel on top and a capacitor below >etc. and some sort of system of tilting the stem. Solar sun-trackers are very possible, especially in a "plant" concept. On a mobile robot, any gains would simply be offset by the additional weight and the power required to readjust the position every time the "body" moved. Mark Tilden has a few devices based on this concept which do work very nicely (no pics yet), but then again, he's _Mark Tilden_, man of infinite ability and the coolest stuff to build from! ;-> >1) if nature cannot get a feasible moving life form from the sun then I >doubt if we can. I disagree. Although the Photopoppers are relatively slow (in the range of 2 minutes per meter), they are consistant. And we're playing with newer solarcells and designs all the time that promise to produce _very_ active creatures. Just wait and see.... >i thought for producers there could be something like my plant idea above, >but perhaps without the moving solar panel. they would have the capacitor at >ground level with the wires clerealy accescible. the grazer would have much >larger storage capacitor and would go from plant to plant with electrical >contacts getting the current from the plant capacitor. again i dont know >enough about electronics to know if this is possible. Ah, 'tis possible. I believe I recall Mark Tilden saying he even got some recognition for a very similar concept using solar "plants" to charge up creatures that bump into them. As well, there will be a similar exhibition at this year's "Western Canadian Robot Games" (WCRG) called "Extinction" where nicad-powered photovores will be fighting over the power provided by DC-powered light-emitting "flowers". I'll be posting pics of the event after next May 24 (the day of the event). >a carnivore might then be able to connect to a grazer, either by the same >contacts it uses to feed off plants or by another weak spot built in to its >back or something to drain that. a more vicious design might also have >clippers to cut off the capacitor of prey or a competitor. Funny you mention that. There are two classes of critter at the WCRG Extincion event, with Carnivores being powered by 6V nicads, and the herbivores by 9V nicads, so carnivores can get a 3V "Boost" when the "feed" on the herbivore's manditorily-placed power pins at the rear of the 'bot. >again i do not really know if any of this is possible - the robots would >certainly have to be advanced to have so many instincts built in, perhaps a >microprocessor might even be necessary. The "Cybugs" (the extinction robot series name) use simple 555 timers and a 293 motor driver with opto and tactile inputs. From what I've heard, they're quite capable as is. If I can get Craig Maynard (WCRG's CEO and CYBUG designer) to reveal more about them, I'll do so. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.006DC6FE; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:59:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA22734 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:49:23 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA31304 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:08:51 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA02021 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08237 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:08:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970421114738.00de73c8@cadvision.com> References: <199704191056.LAA13358@itl.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:08:32 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: BEAM Plants (was: Re: BEAM ideas SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: BEAM Plants (was: Re: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/21/97 12:08:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 12:59:09 PM-04/21/97 12:59:10 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 12:59:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dave Hrynkiw writes: >Solar sun-trackers are very possible, especially in a "plant" concept. On a >mobile robot, any gains would simply be offset by the additional weight and >the power required to readjust the position every time the "body" moved. >Mark Tilden has a few devices based on this concept which do work very >nicely (no pics yet), but then again, he's _Mark Tilden_, man of infinite >ability and the coolest stuff to build from! ;-> >... >Ah, 'tis possible. I believe I recall Mark Tilden saying he even got some >recognition for a very similar concept using solar "plants" to charge up >creatures that bump into them. Unless Mark has changed his mind, I think the following might be enlightening. Mind you, it is just shy of a year old. On 4/22/96 (last year,) I wrote to Mark Tilden: ... Finally, I was thinking that perhaps a biological step has been ignored. In other words, you've not made mention of the flora that might exist where the BEAM robots roam. Thus, although I'm not suggesting that a solaroller or a photopopper would eat such plants, they might be considered to be refueling stations. BEAM robots would still have solar cells for a "limp home" mode, but it might be possible for them to have at least small nicads that could be recharged at a plant and thus be somewhat more active (on our time scale.) ... His reply (the same day) was: ... Nicads have a charge cost, which means they take energy to charge which is not returned during discharge. Solar cells must be massive, or the light powerful for them to be effective at all, but this _has_never_been_made_to_work_ _effectively_or_for_long_. (emphasis mine) ... Now, he may have changed his mind since then, but this is how things _were_. a) I hope this doesn't burst too many people's bubbles -and- b) there's a reasonable chance that he'll reply with what he's thinking about lately along these lines. It might take him a couple of months, but he'll probably get around to replying. ---------------------- John Atwood deVries II zozzles@lanl.gov, zozzles@empire.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.007D324A; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:47:28 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23507 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:37:47 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA32472 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:15:42 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts45ip125.cadvision.com [207.228.72.125]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id QAA249290; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:13:18 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970421162149.00714394@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:21:49 -0600 To: Alberto Delgado , beam list From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) In-Reply-To: <33513E67.17AA@col1.telecom.com.co> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) PostedDate: 04/21/97 03:21:49 PM SendTo: adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 03:47:33 PM-04/21/97 03:47:35 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 03:47:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:13 PM 4/13/97 -0700, Alberto Delgado wrote: >Why do not We create a BEAM Journal (magazine) with different sections. >The journal (magazine) can be a mixture of practical electronics and >some theory to explain the behaviour and philosophy of BEAM robots. The >journal (or magazine) can include DIY projects with pictures and step by >step procedures. Funny you should mention this. This very idea was being discussed by a few of us last week, and is going to be persued in the next month or so. When we've got the concept outlined, we'll post a message to the list. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.007D33E3; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:47:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23508 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:37:48 -0700 Received: from col1.telecom.com.co (COL1.TELECOM.COM.CO [200.21.200.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA32361 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:01:47 -0500 Received: from [200.21.200.17] by col1.telecom.com.co; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Oct96-1154AM) id AA23543; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:05:48 -0400 Message-Id: <33513E67.17AA@col1.telecom.com.co> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:13:27 -0700 From: Alberto Delgado X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam list Subject: BEAM Journal (magazine) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co From: adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co Subject: BEAM Journal (magazine) PostedDate: 04/13/97 01:13:27 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 03:47:34 PM-04/21/97 03:47:35 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 03:47:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello. Lately I have seen a lot of interesting ideas and projects in this list. It seems that the BEAM research is spread all over a collection of web pages, this is good, but sometimes the web is slow and not everybody interested in BEAM robotics has an Internet connection. Why do not We create a BEAM Journal (magazine) with different sections. The journal (magazine) can be a mixture of practical electronics and some theory to explain the behaviour and philosophy of BEAM robots. The journal (or magazine) can include DIY projects with pictures and step by step procedures. Thanks. -- Alberto Delgado Mailing Address : Electrical Engineering Department National University of Colombia A.A. No. 5885 Bogota, D.C. Colombia South America Phone/Fax No. : + 571 3 16 51 80 Phone No. : + 571 3 68 12 93; + 571 3 68 12 69 Fax No.: + 571 3 16 51 84 Email : adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256480.008209F8; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:40:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA23732 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:30:36 -0700 From: ROBT909@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00232 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:13:41 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA17686 for beam@webconn.com(beamlist); Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970421191316_-965428525@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com (beamlist) Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) SMTPOriginator: ROBT909@aol.com From: ROBT909@aol.com Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) PostedDate: 04/21/97 04:13:36 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 04:40:27 PM-04/21/97 04:40:28 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 04:40:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US In a message dated 97-04-21 18:21:28 EDT, you write: << At 01:13 PM 4/13/97 -0700, Alberto Delgado wrote: >Why do not We create a BEAM Journal (magazine) with different sections. >The journal (magazine) can be a mixture of practical electronics and >some theory to explain the behaviour and philosophy of BEAM robots. The >journal (or magazine) can include DIY projects with pictures and step by >step procedures. Funny you should mention this. This very idea was being discussed by a few of us last week, and is going to be persued in the next month or so. When we've got the concept outlined, we'll post a message to the list. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com >> Are you going to limit your articles to Beam type robots, or will you accept submissions from other fields of robotics? ROB.T. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256481.000C87BB; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:16:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA24150 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:07:11 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00978 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:11:13 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts27ip211.cadvision.com [207.228.69.211]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id TAA212434; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:08:48 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970421191727.00dc5fb4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:17:27 -0600 To: ROBT909@aol.com, beam@webconn.com (beamlist) From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) In-Reply-To: <970421191316_-965428525@emout19.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM Journal (magazine) PostedDate: 04/21/97 06:17:27 PM SendTo: ROBT909@aol.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 07:16:56 PM-04/21/97 07:16:57 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 07:16:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:13 PM 4/21/97 -0400, ROBT909@aol.com wrote: >Are you going to limit your articles to Beam type robots, or will you accept >submissions from other fields of robotics? Well, we haven't been discussing in detail yet, but I'd say no. We roughly figure that we should be able to fill at least 200 pages with strictly BEAM stuff, so it'd be a fairly large volume in its own right. Mind you, I'm sure there would be topics applicable to all fields of robotics. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256481.00149366; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:44:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24275 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:34:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01550 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:47:09 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA26663 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts25-14.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts25-14.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.77]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA17841 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704220247.WAA17841@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:46:30 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: BEAM Workshop results SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: BEAM Workshop results PostedDate: 04/21/97 07:46:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/21/97 08:44:52 PM-04/21/97 08:44:53 PM DeliveredDate: 04/21/97 08:44:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Gang; I've just returned from Los Alamos, and the workshop presented by the Los Alamos National Laboratory. I had a great time, and would like to thank the organizers and sponsors. We had over a hundred participants, this year (sorry, I was too busy to get an accurate count) and closer to two hundred kits were built. It was a pleasure to work with a group as diverse and interesting the people that showed-up at the Los Alamos High School. I enjoyed speaking to students, teachers, organizers and interested by-standers from a range of backgrounds. While the kit-building was scheduled for Thursday and Friday, a few determined individuals were just finishing- up in time for the competitions on Saturday. . . Truly, that is doing things "BEAM-style." We held competitions for the participants in several categories. I haven't seen any "Official Results" posted yet, so here are selected results from my notebook. I will only post the first names of those involved; I don't have _all_ of the last names, and I apologise for any errors. . . SolaRoller 3rd Kevin 2nd Logan 1st Ian Aesthetics 3rd Brian 2nd Neil 1st Lorenzo Walking Race 3rd Logan 2nd Kate 1st Tena Walking Sumo 3rd Gavin 2nd Tena 1st Johnathan Photovore 3rd Aaron 2nd Mike 1st Henrick While it was great fun to meet most of the participants, some need special mention. I would like to thank the following people for their enthusiasm, help, effort, spirit, generousity and sense of humour; ( in no particular order) Jeron, Mark, Kristen, Sabrina, Lorenzo, Kate, Mark, Paul, Dave, Mark, Cheryl, and Kerry. Thanks everyone. I'm looking forward to next years' event already! I'm sure that it will be bigger and better. Thanks again LANL, and Paul Argo, of LANL's Nonproliferation and International Security Division, for organizing the event. I understand that the Department of the Environment's Educational Fund was a major sponsor; thank-you. Cheers, Richard. Electro-Gadgets "Cool robots, without the hat." :-) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256482.00158DAC; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:55:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA27784 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:45:43 -0700 Received: from col1.telecom.com.co (COL1.TELECOM.COM.CO [200.21.200.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08881 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:58:38 -0500 Received: from [200.21.200.79] by col1.telecom.com.co; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Oct96-1154AM) id AA08124; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:02:07 -0400 Message-Id: <3352C745.6811@col1.telecom.com.co> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:09:41 -0700 From: Alberto Delgado X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam list Subject: BEAM Contest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co From: adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co Subject: BEAM Contest PostedDate: 04/14/97 05:09:41 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/22/97 08:55:28 PM-04/22/97 08:55:29 PM DeliveredDate: 04/22/97 08:55:29 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US The Electrical Engineering Department of the National University of Colombia is organizing a contest on BEAM Robotics among the students of Electrical Engineering of several Universities in Bogota - Colombia. This first contest is dedicated to photovores. The prizes are books authored by lecturers of our Department. The idea is to promote research in our Department in the area of robotics. Also, in the future, we would like to design a robot with a processor and a neural network working in parallel and exchanging information. The processor can handle the "logic" and the network can handle the stimulus-response behavior. One can speculate that our neural net can be divided in two blocks : one part works with the "logic" and other with the stimulus-response (feelings-emotions) behavior. The information is in spanish : http://chibcha.usc.unal.edu.co/un/ingenieria/electrica/adelgado/ After the contest I will report the results in English and with some pictures. Thanks. -- Alberto Delgado Mailing Address : Electrical Engineering Department National University of Colombia A.A. No. 5885 Bogota, D.C. Colombia South America Phone/Fax No. : + 571 3 16 51 80 Phone No. : + 571 3 68 12 93; + 571 3 68 12 69 Fax No.: + 571 3 16 51 84 Email : adelgado@col1.telecom.com.co $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256482.00176073; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:15:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA27825 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:05:37 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09497 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:38:19 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA20056 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts13-03.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts13-03.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.34]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA04722 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704230338.XAA04722@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:37:43 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM Contest SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM Contest PostedDate: 04/22/97 08:37:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/22/97 09:15:22 PM-04/22/97 09:15:24 PM DeliveredDate: 04/22/97 09:15:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:09 PM 4/14/97 -0700, Alberto Delgado wrote: >The Electrical Engineering Department of the National University of >Colombia is organizing a contest on BEAM Robotics among the students of >Electrical Engineering of several Universities in Bogota - Colombia. [snip] Great! Sounds like fun. But when is the event? Is it an open event, or only for your students? Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256483.0070BD2C; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:31:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04055 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:21:41 -0700 Received: from lists (lists.asu.edu [129.219.10.179]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22359 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:41:57 -0500 Received: from aztec.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-4 #15851) with SMTP id <0E95Q1WF300D8Z@asu.edu> for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:27:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by aztec.asu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11929; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:30:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:30:07 -0700 (MST) From: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu (JOHN H. HESS III) Subject: Microcore Difficulties To: beam@webconn.com Reply-to: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu Message-id: <9704241930.AA11929@aztec.asu.edu> SMTPOriginator: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu From: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu Subject: Microcore Difficulties PostedDate: 04/24/97 12:30:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 01:31:29 PM-04/24/97 01:31:30 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 01:31:30 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US About a week ago I tried breadboarding a microcore using the info from the amiller website. I could not find an 74C14 chip, but only a 74HCT14 (from Radio Shack. I also used ceramic disk capacitors from radio shack. I'm not sure what they were, but the said 22 with an underline on them. When I assembled it, all the lights went on. I added a PNC and half the lights went off, like this: 1 * 0 4 2 0 * 5 3 * 0 6 They didn't move, they just stayed the same. When I released the PNC switch they went back to all leds at once. Im not sure what the problem is. I figure that if the caps were too small (which would explain all light at once), then all the lights would extinguish when I pressed the PNC. Is it that I used an HCT instead of a C? I read in some electronic magazine, that the HCT's convert TTL inputs. The C series didn't say that. I'm very new to electronics, but I'm trying to learn and I thought building a microcore would be a good learning experience. I have already built two photovores (one from 2 solarbotics kits, and the other on my own). Thanks ahead of time for any help you can give me. John Hess BEAM Novice $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256483.007246D3; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:48:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04155 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:38:21 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22624 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:19:49 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip139.cadvision.com [207.228.74.139]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id OAA152280; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:17:27 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970424142631.00dd46a8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:26:31 -0600 To: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Microcore Difficulties In-Reply-To: <9704241930.AA11929@aztec.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Microcore Difficulties PostedDate: 04/24/97 01:26:31 PM SendTo: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 01:48:19 PM-04/24/97 01:48:20 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 01:48:20 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:30 PM 4/24/97 -0700, JOHN H. HESS III wrote: >About a week ago I tried breadboarding a microcore using the info from the >amiller website. I could not find an 74C14 chip, but only a 74HCT14 (from >Radio Shack. I also used ceramic disk capacitors from radio shack. I'm not >sure what they were, but the said 22 with an underline on them. When I >assembled it, all the lights went on. I added a PNC and half the lights went The 74HCT14 should work just fine. I think your problem is with the "22" ceramic disk caps. When you get ceramics, they usually are designed for substantially small size capacitances. My bet is that your "22" caps are actually 22 picofarads, not 0.22 uF (microfarads). All the lights look like they're on because they're being sequenced VERY fast. Replace the caps with 0.22 or 0.1uF caps (electrolytic or preferably tantalums), and you should get slower sequencing. Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256483.007F5767; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:10:54 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA04956 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:01:11 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23496 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:30:57 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA19641 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts25-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts25-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.65]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA05563 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704242230.SAA05563@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:29:43 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: chat room SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: chat room PostedDate: 04/24/97 03:29:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 04:11:02 PM-04/24/97 04:11:04 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 04:11:04 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:17 PM 4/23/97 -0400, vidalfamily@earthlink.net wrote: >mike here > has it ever been discussed having a chat room for beam robotics. [snip] just a thought. > thanks:) > > Hi Mike; Hmm . . . My first guess would be that it won't work. That is my first guess, simply because I am not interested. Now, that's a _very_ self-centred (and slightly out of character, I hope) perspective, so let me amplify: 1) We (BEAM'ers) are spread across many time-zones, Mark D tells me that the list has readers in all time zones of North America, and some in Europe and Asia. Finding a time that is convenient for people _that_ far apart, temporally, will be tough. I am not one to say that the Europeans should be excluded simply because we wish to talk "after work" which might be well after their "bed- time." Nor would I want to exclude East or West coast readers. 2) With this list, I respond to posts that I find interesting, and I get responses from the rest of you when I say something that _you_ find interesting. At my day-job, I have to answer whatever question comes my way, from my customers. It doesn't matter how many times I've answered that question to previous customers, or even the same person. If I were on-line, I would feel obliged to answer whatever question came along. I don't want my very enjoyable past-time to become an obligation. Please, temper all of this with the knowledge that I have not used chat software, and I really _don't know_ what the appeal of that kind of immediate anonymity is. . . Others will certainly have other reasons, and other opinions. Now, if you think that this forum is not answering your questions, here are some guidelines for writing questions that I sometimes like to respond to: a) Ask a specific question. "How do I make my Microcore work?" is pretty general, while detailing your parts selection, symptoms and previous trouble shooting attempts lets me know a lot about your project. b) Worry about spelling and grammar. Yes, that is petty of me, and old-fashioned and maybe even anti-internet. I find it easier to read a well-written post. But, if someone wants me to put some thought into my reply, I hope they will put some thought into their question. This does not apply to everyone. I understand and applaud the international nature of the internet, and this list. English is my first language, and I only remember small bits of high-school French. Anyone who posts a technical question in their non-native language has my respect for their effort, and my envy for their ability. Sorry to have gone on so long. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256483.007F75C2; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:12:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA04959 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:02:28 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23492 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:30:54 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA19631 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts25-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts25-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.150.65]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA05545 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704242230.SAA05545@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:29:40 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Microcore Difficulties SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Microcore Difficulties PostedDate: 04/24/97 03:29:40 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 04:12:24 PM-04/24/97 04:12:24 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 04:12:24 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:30 PM 4/24/97 -0700, cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu wrote: > > >About a week ago I tried breadboarding a microcore using the info from the >amiller website. I could not find an 74C14 chip, but only a 74HCT14 (from [snip] The HCT won't cause a problem. Like Dave said, "check your capacitors." Also the resistors. You want a time constant the you can observe, for bread boarding. I'm using anywhere from 0.5Hz to 4Hz (I guess) depending on what I grab out of my parts boxes. :-) . I added a PNC and half the lights went >off, like this: > >1 * 0 4 >2 0 * 5 >3 * 0 6 > >They didn't move, they just stayed the same. When I released the PNC switch >they went back to all leds at once. Im not sure what the problem is. Hmmm . . . That's may be another problem. Even at high speed, it should run down to one light on. Though it might look like five going off at the same time. Let's get the time-constant thing under control, then let us know what happened with the PNC. [snip] > >John Hess >BEAM Novice > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.00037A01; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:37:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA05489 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:28:12 -0700 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24081 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:01:45 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust5.Max4.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.118.133]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA04783 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335FF409.6CA6@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:00:09 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: re:re:chat room Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: re:re:chat room PostedDate: 04/24/97 05:00:09 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 05:38:08 PM-04/24/97 05:38:08 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 05:38:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Hi Mike; > > Hmm . . . My first guess would be that it won't work. That is > my first guess, simply because I am not interested. Now, that's > a _very_ self-centred (and slightly out of character, I hope) > perspective, so let me amplify: > mike here i understande we live in different time zones and it would be difficult to find a time that would be good for everyone i just thought that it could be help full for people who are just starting to be able to ask some of the simple questions that for a beginner seem to be the most complex thing they ever saw i write this from the point that i have just recently crossed that bridge and if i did not have the help from people like andrew miller and my near by radio shack's manager i might not have gotten over the first hills of electronics witch are so difficult for beginners just because theres a new area in the beam universe dosen't mean you have to tanke part in it if it is inconveniet for you much like i am unable to venture to los alamos for the workshops like so many other beamers dosen't mean that it should not be held sorry i am being a little defencive but you came on a little strong yourself $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.0011FB43; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:16:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05754 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:06:41 -0700 From: Botly@aol.com Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24904 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:25:19 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA10417 for beam@webconn.com; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970424222326_-132294578@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: object mapers SMTPOriginator: Botly@aol.com From: Botly@aol.com Subject: object mapers PostedDate: 04/24/97 07:25:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/24/97 08:16:28 PM-04/24/97 08:16:29 PM DeliveredDate: 04/24/97 08:16:29 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I'm looking for an object mapping program my own wont work rite $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.0067B837; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:52:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA13103 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:43:09 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29834 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:55 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25343 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny3-01.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.97) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smaa25284; Fri Apr 25 12:30:53 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970425133514.353f75a4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: microcore questions SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: microcore questions PostedDate: 04/25/97 10:31:30 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 11:53:01 AM-04/25/97 11:53:02 AM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 11:53:02 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I'm attempting my first microcore walker, but I have a few questions that maybe someone could answer. On the breadboard, it looks like it should, and I suspect that the creature will walk when I find a way to drive the 60-80 ma motors I found. My question, however, concerns the supposed 'feedback' from the motors to the microcore. I assume that it works by increased load on the mnotor affecting the voltage to the microcore, which affects the time constants of the circuit. However, in order to power these motors, I will be using nicads. These batteries can supply a lot of current when necessary. I.e., the voltage probably won't drop appreciably under most load variations. Also, I'm not completely sure that varying voltage would affect the time constants of the microcore oscillators anyway. Obviously, I'm missing something here. Or, am I correct in these things, but I need more complexity in the circuitry to get true feedback to the microcore. Mark Lerman $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.00682048; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:57:20 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA13129 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:47:36 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29833 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:55 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25347 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny3-01.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.97) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smab25284; Fri Apr 25 12:30:55 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970425133516.353f4bfe@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: tiny motor source SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/25/97 10:31:31 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 11:57:27 AM-04/25/97 11:57:28 AM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 11:57:28 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Marlin Jones (800 652-6733) has tiny gear motors for sale. 1 3/16" total length by 1/2" wide by 3/8" thick. 34RPM at 3 vdc. 45 ma no load (I measured 60 ma). All metal gears. I just bought 20 of them, and they seem to be of excellent construction and *very* high torque. I think they will make excellent walker motors, although I have no idea about their efficiency, compliance, etc. Mark Lerman The price is $6.95 each. Ridiculously low! Does anyone know of a simple driver for motors like these? 4 HC type chips don't seem to be able to source/sink enough current with a 3 volt supply. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.006DA5D7; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:57:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA13477 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:47:48 -0700 Received: from quasar.newtonlabs.com (quasar.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.97]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30440 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:00:33 -0500 Received: from bogomips.newtonlabs.com (rsargent@bogomips.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.108]) by quasar.newtonlabs.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA14545; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:55:32 -0700 Received: (from rsargent@localhost) by bogomips.newtonlabs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15138; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199704251855.LAA15138@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> From: Randy Sargent To: Mark Lerman cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: how to drive 60ma motors SMTPOriginator: rsargent@newtonlabs.com From: rsargent@newtonlabs.com Subject: how to drive 60ma motors PostedDate: 04/25/97 11:55:42 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 12:57:50 PM-04/25/97 12:57:51 PM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 12:57:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Mark, Thanks for the lead on the gearhead motors. They look really great :-). > On the breadboard, it looks like it should, and I suspect that the creature > will walk when I find a way to drive the 60-80 ma motors I found. My > question, however, concerns the supposed 'feedback' from the motors to the > microcore. I once built a simple and very tiny light-follower that had two photocells hooked up to an LM386 audio amplifier (8-pin dip, cheap, can get from radio shack). The LM386 drove enough current for two low-power gearhead motors (similar to the ones you described). Basically, the LM386 had enough gain to look a fair bit like a comparator, with a linear region in the middle (so when both photocells were about equal, the bot would go straight). I hooked the single 386 output to both motors: one motor went from the output to +V, the other from the output to gnd, so the voltage was always split between the motors, depending on the differential signal on the photocells. (I then put a DPDT switch on to be able to swap the photocells, which made a light avoider, or a line follower when you bend the photocells to look down at a black line and put a few LED's on board. If anyone wants a schematic, let me know.) So I guess to answer your question, you might look at: * audio amplifier chips, nice and analog * the ubiquitous L293D, which is probably overkill, but overkill is OK * if the stall current isn't too high, you can gang some outputs from a fancier family than HC, like maybe AC. I remember Mark Tilden showing me some cool robots about 6 years ago that used some high-end AC bus driver chip that could source and sink some impressive current for motors. -- Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Sargent Newton Research Labs Senior Design Engineer Robotic Systems and Software rsargent@newtonlabs.com http://www.newtonlabs.com/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256484.0078B89F; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:58:35 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14126 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:48:52 -0700 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31190 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:49:08 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust63.Max4.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.118.191]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06280 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33611860.41E8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:47:28 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: chicken leg walkers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: chicken leg walkers PostedDate: 04/25/97 01:47:28 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 02:58:47 PM-04/25/97 02:58:48 PM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 02:58:48 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US mike here has any one atempted a two leg chicken walker i haven't seen any on the beam pages and i am going to atempet it and any advise would be help full thanks:) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256485.0011FB5C; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:16:24 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14967 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:06:40 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32720 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:19:52 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA06350 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts15-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.81]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA00837 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704260219.WAA00837@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:18:33 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: BEAM SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: BEAM PostedDate: 04/25/97 07:18:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 08:16:31 PM-04/25/97 08:16:32 PM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 08:16:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:55 AM 4/25/97 -0400, Andrew Miller wrote: >I didn't mean to say that BEAM should be sold to "Mega-corp".... >We havn't got anything they are intrested in buying anyway.... > >What I saying is it's high time we think of incorperating and getting >some venture capatilist investment.... >Running the company ourselves as a comercial venture with help from a >coherent managment team.. > [Andrew's "Venture Capital Primer" snipped. :-) ] Thanks for the clarifications, Miller, that does sound somewhat better than "signing in blood, and losing our souls." Also, don't sell yourself short on the writing thing, you got those ideas through just fine. Regarding a BEAM Mangement Team; Hmm. . . I think I could work with Kerry, Cheryl and Mark Dalton, as long as they would let me into the workshop for, oh, half of each day . . . You know, when I'm not doing research with our venture capital on the golf course. I do second your suggestion that we should see ourselves as "talent, not agent." Scotty, can you share some Talent vs. Agent anecdotes? Of course, we do each have our strengths. As polite and "toady" as I _can_ be when I feel the need, I'll not cut myself off from the _chance_ of becoming a top level contributor on the technology side. (At this point I consider myself "second tier") While my ignorance about business matters is showing, where, exactly, is the line drawn between management and worker? For us, would management say "This shall be thine next Project. Go forth, and Create-eth a 'Bot in mine image." Or, would it be more along the lines of the gearheads (us) say to the management, "Let's build those mine- busters" to which management replies, "Okay, you, tote that barge; you, lift that bale; you, get me a Daquiri!" Can't say that I've seen a particularly good management example before. . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256485.0011FBAC; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:16:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14964 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:06:35 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32729 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:20:11 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA06365 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts15-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.81]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA00859 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704260219.WAA00859@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:18:39 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: how to drive 60ma motors SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: how to drive 60ma motors PostedDate: 04/25/97 07:18:39 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 08:16:31 PM-04/25/97 08:16:32 PM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 08:16:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:55 AM 4/25/97 -0700, Randy Sargent wrote: > >Hi Mark, > >Thanks for the lead on the gearhead motors. They look really great :-). > [Randy's description of a robot I plan to copy and claim as my own idea ;-) snipped] >(I then put a DPDT switch on to be able to swap the photocells, which made >a light avoider, or a line follower when you bend the photocells to look >down at a black line and put a few LED's on board. If anyone wants a >schematic, let me know.) Yes, I would like to see how you did this. It sounds elegant. If you can make it an ascii-schematic, perhaps you can put it right on the list here? If not, check with Mark to see what sort of file size would be in/appropriate. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256485.001217B4; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:17:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA14970 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:07:47 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32723 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:19:55 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA06354 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts15-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts10-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.81]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA00845 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704260219.WAA00845@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:18:36 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: tiny motor source SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/25/97 07:18:36 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/25/97 08:17:42 PM-04/25/97 08:17:43 PM DeliveredDate: 04/25/97 08:17:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:31 PM 4/25/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: [snip] > >Mark Lerman > >The price is $6.95 each. Ridiculously low! > >Does anyone know of a simple driver for motors like these? 4 HC type chips >don't seem to be able to source/sink enough current with a 3 volt supply. > Correct. The databook I use says 6 mA output, so six times four . . . 24 mA? Just doesn't make it. There is a TI family called ABT; "74ABT240" is a sample chip number; it is supposed to be good for 32 mA. It will sink much more than that, but we _would_ prefer a push- pull set-up. Other options; use discrete transistors, motor driver chips, discrete FET's. . . _big_ stacks of HC chips :-) Cheers, Richard, P.S. Thanks for the motor lead! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.0001338D; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:13:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15803 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:03:21 -0700 Received: from clothes.peg.apc.org (www.peg.apc.org [192.131.13.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05478 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:23:36 -0500 Received: from cmarshall (t36.dialup.peg.apc.org [192.203.176.164]) by clothes.peg.apc.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04395; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:22:26 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704262322.JAA04395@clothes.peg.apc.org> From: "Collin Marshall" To: , "Richard Weait" Subject: Re: chat room Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:58:55 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: cmarshall@peg.apc.org From: cmarshall@peg.apc.org Subject: Re: chat room PostedDate: 04/26/97 03:58:55 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,crs0274@inforamp.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 05:13:17 PM-04/26/97 05:13:18 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 05:13:18 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Richard wrote: > 1) We (BEAM'ers) are spread across many time-zones, Mark D tells > me that the list has readers in all time zones of North America, > and some in Europe and Asia Excuse me, are we forgetting some-one ? BEAM has a high level of following in Australia too ! However, the original sentiments were spot-on: the time zone issue would have to be considered. However, a lot of non-american chat-room users are used to being up at odd hours to fit in with US events. Another alternative is to have a couple of different times eg one for States/Canada/Mexico etc, one for Europe and one for Asia/Australia depending on interest. This might be a bit of an overkill, perhaps. Either way, the variations in time zone shouldn't be allowed to stop the project. Coll. ---------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.00057F14; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:00:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15832 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:50:11 -0700 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05858 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:34:03 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust61.Max10.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.125.61]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA15070 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33629E9A.77D5@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:32:26 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: chat room Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: chat room PostedDate: 04/26/97 05:32:26 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 06:00:08 PM-04/26/97 06:00:09 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 06:00:09 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US mike here i have researched the topic of the chat rooms further and have found a server who will provide us with a spot to put our chat room if we so desire one so i pose the question to all beamer DO YOU WANT ONE details of time zones and times will be discussed later but lets take a vote on the room its self first please send all votes to place vote in subject box yea for a chat room and nay to do without no explanations required and votes are to be placed by may 3rd one week from today thank you:) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.001BDB93; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:04:16 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15948 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:54:12 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07170 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:45:48 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id WAA34338; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:43:22 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970426223553.00721f84@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:35:53 -0600 To: "Collin Marshall" , , "Richard Weait" From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: chat room In-Reply-To: <199704262322.JAA04395@clothes.peg.apc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: chat room PostedDate: 04/26/97 09:35:53 PM SendTo: cmarshall@peg.apc.org,beam@webconn.com,crs0274@inforamp.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 10:04:27 PM-04/26/97 10:04:28 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 10:04:28 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:58 AM 4/27/97 +1000, Collin Marshall wrote: >Excuse me, are we forgetting some-one ? BEAM has a high level of following >in Australia too ! Really? I'd personally like to hear more about it! What's some of the latest projects you've seen/worked on? -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.001BED1E; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:05:01 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15952 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:55:16 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07168 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:45:46 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id WAA49200; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:43:25 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970426223710.00b73818@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:37:10 -0600 To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: chat room - YEA In-Reply-To: <33629E9A.77D5@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: chat room - YEA PostedDate: 04/26/97 09:37:10 PM SendTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 10:05:08 PM-04/26/97 10:05:08 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 10:05:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Doesn't sound to unreasonable to me, but don't expect me to be able to always attend. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.00228816; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:17:10 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15999 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:07:19 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07755 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:02:14 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id XAA217580; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:59:51 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970426232301.0068d1a4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:23:01 -0600 To: "Anthony O. Hammond" , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: BEAM ideas Cc: aohamm01@draconis.spd.louisville.edu (Anthony O. Hammond) In-Reply-To: <199704202257.SAA28330@draconis.spd.louisville.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: BEAM ideas PostedDate: 04/26/97 10:23:01 PM SendTo: aohamm01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu,beam@webconn.com CopyTo: aohamm01@draconis.spd.louisville.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 11:17:15 PM-04/26/97 11:17:16 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 11:17:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:57 PM 4/20/97 -0400, Anthony O. Hammond wrote: >One possible way to implement such an idea is set it up to where >the contacts at one height would ALWAYS be the positive >voltage, and another set of contacts would always be the ground >reference for all objects involved. Not a bad idea, but at the moment, the best a critter could to is split the power of the capacitor with the creature it's feeding off of. We've got plans for a long-term charging photovore that would make a better "feed" using this concept, but it's still a bit off in the distance. Craig Maynard's post about his CYBUGS is quite close to your description, and he's already got it implemented (waytogoCraig!). Now if he could pry himself away from his students and actually PUBLISH the basic outline of the "Extinction" event, we'd all be ready for the next WCRG (Western Canadian Robot Games - http://www.startcard.com/wcrg). >But... >from what I have gathered of the BEAM philosophy (or somewhere >else along the line), is that the idea is to avoid the creation >of pathetibots that cannot function outside of their little >testing world. Well, with the exclusion of Mark Tilden's latest mine-stompers, and a few exceptional photovores, many are already confined to a flat surface. That's better than a custom environment, and I think mankind's invention of linoleum and asphault has greatly contributed to the "possible confines" of where they could operate. That's a scary thought - you ever consider just how *far* a BEAMbot could travel if it was capable of crossing a 1/4" gap and staying on aspault (and avoiding the flat-cat syndrome)? Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.002290AC; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:17:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA16002 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:07:47 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07758 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:02:24 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id AAA274524; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:00:05 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970427000337.0068b4d4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:03:37 -0600 To: Scott Martin , comments@bogon.com, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: no subject (file transmission) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: no subject (file transmission) PostedDate: 04/26/97 11:03:37 PM SendTo: scotty@bogon.com,comments@bogon.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/26/97 11:17:35 PM-04/26/97 11:17:36 PM DeliveredDate: 04/26/97 11:17:36 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:27 AM 4/24/97 -0700, Scott Martin wrote: >Hey Gang, >A couple o' comments on the last mail delivery. > 1. irc...if you really think it is whorthwhile check out > ICQ from Maribilis(hope I spelt that right). It allows > the users way more than just a irc chat forum, things like > file transfers, sending URL's, messages, email...and an > online alert when your buddys are online. I've got this loaded right now for the fun of it (and to see when Scott is awake with the baby - hehehehe...). He's right - it's a pretty decent, low-net demand package. You may want to check it out (if so, my ICQ# is 764080 if you want to "scan" for me). Website is http://www.mirabilis.com Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.002B1E8A; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:50:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16076 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:41:07 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08499 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 02:37:24 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id BAA125618; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:33:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970427013723.00b9442c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:37:23 -0600 To: Randy Sargent , Mark Lerman From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: how to drive 60ma motors Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <199704251855.LAA15138@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: how to drive 60ma motors PostedDate: 04/27/97 12:37:23 AM SendTo: rsargent@newtonlabs.com,mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 12:51:08 AM-04/27/97 12:51:08 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 12:51:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:55 AM 4/25/97 -0700, Randy Sargent wrote: >Hi Mark, >Thanks for the lead on the gearhead motors. They look really great :-). Are they on the website? I can't find'em... -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.002B533D; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:53:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16088 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:43:28 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08490 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 02:36:04 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id BAA94844; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:33:43 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970427012037.00b8e440@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:20:37 -0600 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: microcore questions In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970425133514.353f75a4@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: microcore questions PostedDate: 04/27/97 12:20:37 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 12:53:21 AM-04/27/97 12:53:22 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 12:53:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 12:31 PM 4/25/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >I assume that it works by increased load on the mnotor affecting the voltage >to the microcore, which affects the time constants of the circuit. However, >in order to power these motors, I will be using nicads. These batteries can >supply a lot of current when necessary. I.e., the voltage probably won't >drop appreciably under most load variations. Sorta. As the "loaded" motor pulls more power the bipolar motor drivers supply the increased load. This in turn yanks more milliamps out of the base of the driver transistors which are connected to (surprise) the outputs of the microcore. This additional load affects the microcore as it has changed from it's "unloaded motor" state. Using FET based drivers make feedback much less possible, and requires the use of a high-ohm resistor to get the necessary feedback to the microcore outputs. Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.002B5365; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:53:14 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16089 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:43:28 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08492 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 02:36:06 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts40ip167.cadvision.com [207.228.71.167]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id BAA193960; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:33:48 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970427013610.00b9083c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:36:10 -0600 To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: chicken leg walkers In-Reply-To: <33611860.41E8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: chicken leg walkers PostedDate: 04/27/97 12:36:10 AM SendTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 12:53:21 AM-04/27/97 12:53:22 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 12:53:22 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:47 PM 4/25/97 -0400, Vidal Family wrote: >mike here has any one atempted a two leg chicken walker i haven't seen >any on the beam pages and i am going to atempet it and any advise would >be help full thanks:) RUN! RUUUUN! Run to your local KFC and enjoy the legs there, 'cause you'll HATE THEM after attempting a two legged beast. Now, did that sound discouraging? Ooops, sorry... ;-> I'd personally suggest starting off simpler (if this isn't your first walker, my appologies, and ignore me). A two motor/4 legger is a great way to learn the ropes. I've built...3? 4? walkers now, and feel NOWHERE qualified to start 2 legged designs, but don't let that stop you. Go for broke. And if you can find a 1st edition "Robot Practitioner", they've got a neat article on a chicken walker modelled after the scout walkers on "Star Wars". -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.00480592; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:06:40 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA16198 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 05:56:49 -0700 Received: from zeus.tcp.net.uk (zeus.tcp.net.uk [195.80.0.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10037 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 07:45:48 -0500 Received: from ac078.du.pipex.com (ac078.du.pipex.com [193.130.242.78]) by zeus.tcp.net.uk (8.7.6/8.7) with SMTP id NAA15395 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:45:33 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199704271245.NAA15395@zeus.tcp.net.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Jbourne@tcp.co.uk To: beam@webconn.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:40:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: chat room Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19970426223553.00721f84@cadvision.com> References: <199704262322.JAA04395@clothes.peg.apc.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) SMTPOriginator: jbourne@tcp.co.uk From: Jbourne@tcp.co.uk Subject: Re: chat room PostedDate: 04/27/97 06:40:25 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 06:06:51 AM-04/27/97 06:06:52 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 06:06:52 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On the subject of chat rooms:- has anybody tried using mIRC?? It's a great IRC (Internet Relay Chat) program. Check out the homepage:- http://www.mirc.co.uk/index.html My student friends and I have used mIRC for about 2 years now, it not only allows us to chat to people, but it allows file transfers, and it has its own scripting language, which if you bother to learn it, is quite powerful. The servers we use are the "Undernet" servers we have found these the most freindly, also they are world wide, so any one can log in to their local server. Usually there are well over 1000 channels on the Undernet, but is still runs quite fast (not too much lag) Try it out, you might like it!! ********************************************* * Joe Bourne * * Dept. Physics * * Royal Holloway University of London * * J.Bourne@RHBNC.ac.uk * * JBourne@TCP.co.uk * ********************************************* *-------------------------------------------* |. Life is just something to keep you busy .| |. before the real fun starts!! .| *-------------------------------------------* ********************************************* $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.005AB223; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:30:38 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA16362 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:20:47 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11010 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:10:48 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA18116 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts40-08.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts40-08.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.55]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA29220 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704271610.MAA29220@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:09:05 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: chat room SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: chat room PostedDate: 04/27/97 09:09:05 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 09:30:46 AM-04/27/97 09:30:47 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 09:30:47 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:58 AM 4/27/97 +1000, "Collin Marshall" wrote: >Richard wrote: > >> 1) We (BEAM'ers) are spread across many time-zones, Mark D tells >> me that the list has readers in all time zones of North America, >> and some in Europe and Asia > >Excuse me, are we forgetting some-one ? BEAM has a high level of following >in Australia too ! [snip] >Coll. > >---------- > A thousand pardons!!! For overlooking four of the seven continents, I should be trounced, soundly, with a cricket bat, and fed to the dingoes. ;-) I meant no disrespect, to Australian, African, South American, and Antarctican BEAM'ers by failing to list them in my rant on chat rooms. And while I'm eating crow. . . For those of you that though my comments were ill considered, or just wrong, that could be so. One point that I did not make clear enough is that I have never used chat programs, or been involved in one. So while it may be an incredibly compelling thing to do, and it does have legions of followers, I am just not one of them. This is simply a lack of experience on my part, and I reserve the right to change my mind, without further notice. :-) Cheers, Richard. P.S. Collin, on your side of the equator, do electrons rotate the other way round a circuit? ;-) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.005B2851; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:35:41 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA16393 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:25:50 -0700 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11110 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:20:01 -0500 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.5/(97/04/23 3.28)) id MAA25797; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:19:55 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from username.ix.netcom.com (61008d0015dt.concentric.net [206.173.109.195]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.5) id MAA21815; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33637C30.3F34@concentric.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:17:52 -0400 From: John and Kelly Reply-To: jaandkh@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam Subject: Re: tiny motor source Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: jaandkh@concentric.net From: jaandkh@concentric.net Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/27/97 09:17:52 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: jaandkh@concentric.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 09:35:53 AM-04/27/97 09:35:53 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 09:35:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark Lerman wrote: > > Marlin Jones (800 652-6733) has tiny gear motors for sale. 1 3/16" total > length by 1/2" wide by 3/8" thick. 34RPM at 3 vdc. 45 ma no load (I measured > 60 ma). These are in the latest catalog... Part number 8679-MD in catalog 97-5, page 57 John $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.006785BC; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:50:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA16491 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:40:58 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11876 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:19:46 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA24712 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts40-08.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts70-12.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.27]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA21215 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704271819.OAA21215@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:18:04 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider PostedDate: 04/27/97 11:18:04 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 11:50:55 AM-04/27/97 11:50:56 AM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 11:50:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:49 AM 4/27/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Dave Hrynkiw wrote: > >> I saw EXACTLY the same sort of robot at the BEAM Games in Toronto in '94(?) >> - the one where "Canada First" was doing their thing (for those who where >> there). I can capture some video I took of it and email it to you >> eventually. > >That might prove it is a good idea - since one is rarely the only one to >have one of those. I'd love to see some pictures! > Thanks for the details, Steven, looks like a neat project. On the snippers; For light weight and easy prototyping, have you considered using epoxy-glass PC board. (I've got bits and pieces of the stuff floating around, so I imagine you do too.) It might make for a suitable "scissors", at least in a proof of concept vehicle. . . Dave's right (of course :-) ) about the spider at BEAM - '94. I think it was Rob from Ottawa (?) It was powered through a tether, and skittered along on golf-ball-like feet. It was pretty quick, but I believe it was run by switches trough the tether. Forward and reverse only, if I recall correctly. I trust Rob (?) has carried the design further since then. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.00705700; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:27:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA16543 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:16:57 -0700 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12476 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:32:19 -0500 Received: from odi (asd11-29.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.45.94]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id VAA20000; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:31:11 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:30:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Steven Bolt X-Sender: sbolt@odi To: Richard Weait cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider In-Reply-To: <199704271819.OAA21215@inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-702807189-862169424=:10305" $FILE: SMTPOriginator: sbolt@xs4all.nl From: sbolt@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider PostedDate: 04/27/97 12:30:24 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 01:27:12 PM-04/27/97 01:27:12 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 01:27:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Richard Weait wrote: > Thanks for the details, Steven, looks like a neat project. > On the snippers; For light weight and easy prototyping, have > you considered using epoxy-glass PC board. (I've got bits and > pieces of the stuff floating around, so I imagine you do too.) Present sketch for cutter prototype attached - I often use pcb material for (electro)mechanical parts. It's good stuff, and drawings are easily transferred. > Dave's right (of course :-) ) about the spider at BEAM - '94. > I think it was Rob from Ottawa (?) It was powered through a > tether, and skittered along on golf-ball-like feet. So it was larger than mine? I would really like to see pictures of that baby! Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - cutter.gif $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.0072B8E3; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:53:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA16559 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:43:00 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12773 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:18:05 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA05779 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:18:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:18:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny5-04.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.164) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005685; Sun Apr 27 15:18:00 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970427162318.0cbfe8da@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Re: tiny motor source SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/27/97 01:18:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 01:53:13 PM-04/27/97 01:53:13 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 01:53:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox from the motors described. I was able to remove the very tiny gear from the original motor, but it split when I attempted to force it on the pager motor shaft. Close, but no cigar. To do it, I would have to either enlarge the hole in the gear (very tiny and brittle), or shorten and grind down the diameter of the pager motor shaft. Also very hard. I would then have to mount the pager motor to the rear plate of the gearbox. Epoxy *might* do it?? Any suggestions? Mark Lerman At 12:17 PM 4/27/97 -0400, you wrote: >Mark Lerman wrote: >> >> Marlin Jones (800 652-6733) has tiny gear motors for sale. 1 3/16" total >> length by 1/2" wide by 3/8" thick. 34RPM at 3 vdc. 45 ma no load (I measured >> 60 ma). > >These are in the latest catalog... > >Part number 8679-MD in catalog 97-5, page 57 > >John > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.007D2480; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:46:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA16618 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:37:07 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13450 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:19:57 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA09503 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts40-08.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts60-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.186]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA04097 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704272219.SAA04097@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:18:22 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Steven Bolt's Spider PostedDate: 04/27/97 03:18:22 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 03:46:59 PM-04/27/97 03:47:00 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 03:47:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:30 PM 4/27/97 +0200, Steven Bolt wrote: >On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Richard Weait wrote: [snip] >> I think it was Rob from Ottawa (?) It was powered through a >> tether, and skittered along on golf-ball-like feet. > >So it was larger than mine? I would really like to see pictures of >that baby! > >Steve As I recall, yes, it is / was larger, and built with heaver gauge wire, etc. The construction, though was similar: - legs on each side driven by a single motor; - change in motor direction changes direction of that side; - cam and pivot legs; This is all from memory, so don't set the laywers on me if I'm not completely accurate. . . :-) Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256486.007D474E; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:48:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA16621 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:38:36 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13447 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:19:55 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA09499 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts40-08.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts60-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.147.186]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA04087 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704272219.SAA04087@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:18:19 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: tiny motor source SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/27/97 03:18:19 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 03:48:31 PM-04/27/97 03:48:31 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 03:48:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:18 PM 4/27/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox from the motors >described. [snip] A couple of things; Scott, scotty@bogon.com, has done some very cool stuff with jeweller's tools. You might try a "boring broach", which is used to enlarge (slowly) tiny holes. The other type of broach does not cut, but only shapes, so make sure you get the one you want. I think they can be had in sizes down to .010" (ten 'thou'). That will only work if there is enough metal left on the gear when you are done boring it out. . . Scott has also done some cool "mounting of pager motors where you would never expect them." He's got a cool jig for doing it, maybe he'll share? . . . So beyond, "It was there . . . " why did you feel compelled to try this? You've said the torque is good, is the speed too low? Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.00159598; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:55:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16832 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:45:53 -0700 Received: from mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca (mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.184]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA14735 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:28:25 -0500 Received: from [225.150.97.129] (greenfly.watstar.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.150.225]) by mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23297; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:24:50 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:28:21 EDT From: "ED Spike, E&CE Dept." Subject: Re: tiny motor source To: Mark Lerman cc: beam@webconn.com X-Warning: UNAuthenticated Sender In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970427162318.0cbfe8da@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca From: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/27/97 07:28:21 PM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 08:55:51 PM-04/27/97 08:55:53 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 08:55:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Mark Lerman wrote: I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox from the motors > described. I was able to remove the very tiny gear from the original motor, > but it split when I attempted to force it on the pager motor shaft. Close, > but no cigar. > > To do it, I would have to either enlarge the hole in the gear (very tiny and > brittle), or shorten and grind down the diameter of the pager motor shaft. > Also very hard. I would then have to mount the pager motor to the rear plate > of the gearbox. Epoxy *might* do it?? Any suggestions? > Mark Lerman > > > > > At 12:17 PM 4/27/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Mark Lerman wrote: Did you try to sweat fit the gear to the shaft? It has been a while--- so I will just outline the idea! The gear should be reamed to be just under size of the shaft at room temperature. Say 0.002 to 0.003 inches. You may want to ask a good machinist about these numbers. I do not have my references handy. Put the motor (with the shaft) into your freezer for an hour. Warm the gear up with your hand or a hairdryer just about the time you remove the mortor from the freezer. You should be able to just hand press fit the gear on the shaft. Leave to get to room temperature. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Spike --------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.00239769; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:28:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17011 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:18:40 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15728 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:31:28 -0500 Received: from scotty by wu.bogon.com with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wLj24-0006VW-00; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:31:24 -0700 Subject: jewllerstools To: beam@webconn.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:31:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Scott Martin SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: jewllerstools PostedDate: 04/27/97 10:31:24 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/27/97 11:28:56 PM-04/27/97 11:28:57 PM DeliveredDate: 04/27/97 11:28:57 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey Gang... Mark Lerman wrote: >I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox... Richard is right, sounds like a job for our good friend the "boring broach", aka "reamers" which their larger cousins are known as. These are great for cleaning up the inside of tubes after they have been cut. They are tapered which makes them great for pressure fits, which is what Mark needs from the sound of things. I would suggest that you make friends with a goldsmith or a jeweller, a check out all the cool tools they use, or get a catoulge from Page & Wilson....which reminds me...I'll have to get another because Richard stole mine...;) in that catalog are also a number of watch vises, great for working on small round objects...etc. Anyways..good luck, hope the next one works out. ScottyDogma $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.00311A41; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 01:56:19 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA17137 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 01:46:15 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (mail.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16470 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 02:42:36 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.250]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA200; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:39:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3364533D.7D61@logan.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:35:25 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: tiny motor source References: <2.2.16.19970427162318.0cbfe8da@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: Re: tiny motor source PostedDate: 04/28/97 12:35:25 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 01:56:30 AM-04/28/97 01:56:31 AM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 01:56:31 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark Lerman wrote: > > I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox from the motors > described. I was able to remove the very tiny gear from the original motor, > but it split when I attempted to force it on the pager motor shaft. Close, > but no cigar. > > To do it, I would have to either enlarge the hole in the gear (very tiny and > brittle), or shorten and grind down the diameter of the pager motor shaft. > Also very hard. I would then have to mount the pager motor to the rear plate > of the gearbox. Epoxy *might* do it?? Any suggestions? > > Mark Lerman > > At 12:17 PM 4/27/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Mark Lerman wrote: > >> > >> Marlin Jones (800 652-6733) has tiny gear motors for sale. 1 3/16" total > >> length by 1/2" wide by 3/8" thick. 34RPM at 3 vdc. 45 ma no load (I measured > >> 60 ma). > > > >These are in the latest catalog... > > > >Part number 8679-MD in catalog 97-5, page 57 > > > >John > > > > Have you taken a look at the various Dremel and similar type tools? I have one with a drill press attatchment that I have used for enlargeing holes in gears. These tools also have a huge variety of bits for grinding and shaping. They can be had for around $50 US and about $25 more for the drill press attachment at to local Walmart. Also one of the hobby stores nearby has a collection of tools to press and remove the small gears from motor shafts, I think it is made by Dubro but don't qute me, that are intended for the model car racing crowd. I know this is a more expensive route that most but having the right tools for the job is a blessing, and they have sooooo many uses in BEAM robotics. Hope this helps. Dave Miller $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.005B4296; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:36:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA18102 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:27:02 -0700 Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net (germany-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.123]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19135 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:39:43 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust45.Max10.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.125.45]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24527 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364C45E.507D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:38:06 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: re tiny motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: re tiny motor PostedDate: 04/28/97 08:38:06 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 09:36:56 AM-04/28/97 09:36:57 AM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 09:36:57 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > I just tried to attach a pager motor to the gearbox from the motors > Have you taken a look at the various Dremel and similar type tools? mike here about that pager motor and its gearbox i agree with dave try useing a good dremel tool if it wern't for mine i could not have got as far as i am. good luck:) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.00661AEE; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:35:15 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA18797 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:25:24 -0700 Received: from triton.capcollege.bc.ca (triton.CapCollege.BC.CA [134.87.19.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20007 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:56:57 -0500 Received: from pentium-pro.donalds.ca by triton.capcollege.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #24) id m0wLueV-0003xQC; Mon, 28 Apr 97 10:55 PDT Message-ID: <3364E3B8.4674@capcollege.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:51:52 -0700 From: Chad Donald X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Craig Maynard (EE)" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Where is the cybug kit? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: cdonald@capcollege.bc.ca From: cdonald@capcollege.bc.ca Subject: Where is the cybug kit? PostedDate: 04/28/97 10:51:52 AM SendTo: craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 11:35:20 AM-04/28/97 11:35:21 AM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 11:35:21 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Craig Maynard (EE) wrote: > It's been done! I've got a little kit out called CYBUG, which is a > very active little artificial lifeform. The premise is, as you say, that > any animated animal lifeforms on earth cannot rely strictly on solar > energy for nutrient, but use a food chain where low energy-level > lifeforms such as plants gather energy from the sun, and higher energy > creatures feed off them or other animals. > > The cybugs are phototropic when hungry, and photophobic when full, and > can be tuned to many activity levels. Although they still have no > micro-processor on-board, they may have have very animalistic behaviour. > > A lot of folks have modified the CYBUG's behaviour to chase and draw > energy from other critters. They have even created forms which attach > themselves to the power take-offs on other cybugs and not let h`go. ( > They become, in effect, parasites. ) > > They are extremely active ( rather like a gerbil with a caffine buzz ) > and can run off nicads ( long feed time and very long exploration time ) > or with capacitors as thier main storage ) where they last about 2 > minutes before they run to the feed-trough and re-charge. In capacitor > mode, I have cybugs which have lived for days at a time before I shut > them down. > > They work _very_ well and are an interesting parallel to life science. > > Thanks for your question, Robin > > Craig Maynard > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > J. Craig Maynard W C R G > Information Technology Dept Western Canadian > Southern Alberta Institute of Tech, Robot Games > 1301-16th Ave NW _____ > Calgary, Alberta, Canada ----- _|___|_ craig.maynard@sait.ab.ca > T2M-0L4 -- ( ) Tel: (403) 284-8401 > --- O--O--O Fax: (403) 284-8184 > > " Promoting Science and Technology through Robotics " > Home Page: http://www.starcard.com/wcrg > > EVENT DATE: Sunday May 24, 1997 > \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Where is this cybug? I can't get to the home page mentioned above (www.starcard.com/wcrg). $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.006B8E85; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:34:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19093 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:25:01 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20564 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:54:10 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts54ip186.cadvision.com [207.228.73.186]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id MAA122158; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:50:46 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970428125734.00de4f54@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:57:34 -0600 To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: tecnotrash In-Reply-To: <3364EF2C.726A@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: tecnotrash PostedDate: 04/28/97 11:57:34 AM SendTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 12:34:52 PM-04/28/97 12:34:53 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 12:34:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 02:40 PM 4/28/97 -0400, Vidal Family wrote: >mike here i have taken apart a some radios for their engines and have >found they carry lots of capacitors and this may sound cheap but can a >cap of 4.7 or 10 uF be used in nervous nets or do i need to stick with >.22 0.22 uF is the largest you want to use. Mark T. sez that larger risks toasting the inputs on your 7414 chips. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.006B903C; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:34:52 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19096 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:25:03 -0700 Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20479 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:42:21 -0500 Received: from cyrix-166 (Cust75.Max10.Miami.FL.MS.UU.NET [153.34.125.75]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA16645 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3364EF2C.726A@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:40:44 -0400 From: Vidal Family Reply-To: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Organization: Internet Communications Of America, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: tecnotrash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: vidalfamily@earthlink.net From: vidalfamily@earthlink.net Subject: tecnotrash PostedDate: 04/28/97 11:40:44 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: vidalfamily@earthlink.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 12:34:53 PM-04/28/97 12:34:53 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 12:34:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US mike here i have taken apart a some radios for their engines and have found they carry lots of capacitors and this may sound cheap but can a cap of 4.7 or 10 uF be used in nervous nets or do i need to stick with .22 also tape player radios of any kind are a great sources for gears if any one is looking for them. thanks:) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.007D7B75; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:50:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20120 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:40:49 -0700 Received: from ipo.ipoline.com (ipo.ipoline.com [206.47.42.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21859 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:02:07 -0500 Received: from pm8h8s.ipoline.com by ipo.ipoline.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA46644; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:02:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:02:11 -0400 Message-Id: <9704282202.AA46644@ipo.ipoline.com> X-Sender: sumyee@ipoline.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Sandra Mau Subject: Science Fair 2 SMTPOriginator: sumyee@ipoline.com From: sumyee@ipoline.com Subject: Science Fair 2 PostedDate: 04/28/97 03:02:11 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 03:50:41 PM-04/28/97 03:50:42 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 03:50:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi. I wrote earlier this month about the science project my partner and I did on BEAM Robotics. We went on to a metro-wide science fair to recieved another honourable mention. I was rather upset because I was hoping for a medal this time. Our project had six categories: Purpose, Hypothesis, Research, Experiment, Results and Conclusions. We built two solarollers and tested how far they could travel. By the way, thanks for the invitation Dave Hrynkiw. If my parents allow me to go, can my parner go as well? SM $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256487.007D9B8F; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:51:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20146 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:42:07 -0700 Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21689 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:39:48 -0500 Received: from roxanne (port32.arhl.prodigy.net [204.237.130.32]) by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06288 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:21:29 -0400 Message-ID: <336506BD.2D2C@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:21:18 -0400 From: STING34 Reply-To: STING34@prodigy.net Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Hi ! Help References: <3364EF2C.726A@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: STING34@prodigy.net From: STING34@prodigy.net Subject: Hi ! Help PostedDate: 04/28/97 01:21:18 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: STING34@prodigy.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 03:52:03 PM-04/28/97 03:52:03 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 03:52:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US HI ! I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I could get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I have finished my very first bot, a Solarroller. Any help would be nice. Thanks, $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.00013A72; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:13:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA20464 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:03:32 -0700 Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22582 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:26:04 -0500 Received: from roxanne (port47.arhl.prodigy.net [204.237.130.47]) by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA48626 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:18:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3365220F.24E6@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:17:52 -0400 From: STING34 Reply-To: STING34@prodigy.net Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Help References: <9704282202.AA46644@ipo.ipoline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: STING34@prodigy.net From: STING34@prodigy.net Subject: Help PostedDate: 04/28/97 03:17:52 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: STING34@prodigy.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 05:13:31 PM-04/28/97 05:13:32 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 05:13:32 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US HI ! I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I could get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I have finished my very first bot, a Solaroller. Any help would be nice. Thanks, $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.00030A35; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:33:12 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA20526 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:23:19 -0700 Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22767 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:51:41 -0500 Received: from gold.interlog.com (root@gold.interlog.com [198.53.145.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with ESMTP id TAA15449 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mmladek (ip93-92.tor.interlog.com [206.108.93.92]) by gold.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA25026 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704282351.TAA25026@gold.interlog.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.0544.0 From: "Martin Mladek" To: Subject: new BEAMer help Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:53:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC540D.C7693480" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.0544.0 SMTPOriginator: mmladek@interlog.com From: mmladek@interlog.com Subject: new BEAMer help PostedDate: 04/28/97 04:53:01 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 05:33:15 PM-04/28/97 05:33:16 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 05:33:16 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, I have breadboarded a solarengine and I am able to get two motors to move a few turns a minute, my question is, how do I split the voltage to the two motors using photoresistors. When I hooked them up in series one per motor, I was not able to get above one third of the turn on voltage (0.8 V vs 2.4V). The resistors are about 600 ohms in full light and 10k ohms in dark. Are there online plans for photovores? Not just the basic circuit. Thanks for any help.

Hi, I have breadboarded a solarengine and I am able to get two motors to move a few turns a minute, my question is, how do I split the voltage to the two motors using photoresistors. When I hooked them up in series one per motor, I was not able to get above one third of the turn on voltage (0.8 V vs 2.4V). The resistors are about 600 ohms in full light and 10k ohms in dark. Are there online plans for photovores? Not just the basic circuit.

Thanks for any help.

$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.000C0D05; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:11:37 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20710 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:01:48 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23485 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:43:02 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA01421 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts32-14.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts7-12.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.139]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA29207 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704290142.VAA29207@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:41:12 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: new BEAMer help SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: new BEAMer help PostedDate: 04/28/97 06:41:12 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 07:11:44 PM-04/28/97 07:11:45 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 07:11:45 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:53 PM 4/28/97 -0400, "Martin Mladek" wrote: >Hi, I have breadboarded a solarengine and I am able to get two >motors to move a few turns a minute, my question is, how do I >split the voltage to the two motors using photoresistors. When >I hooked them up in series one per motor, I was not able to get >above one third of the turn on voltage (0.8 V vs 2.4V). The >resistors are about 600 ohms in full light and 10k ohms in dark. > Are there online plans for photovores? Not just the basic >circuit. >Thanks for any help. Hi Martin; From you message, it sounds like you might be putting the photoresistors in series with the motors. . . That might not be optimal . . . A very basic way to make a photovore is to make two complete and separate SolaRollers, and then join them, side-to-side. If you build the solar cells on stalks, like solid 24 gauge wire, you can see how the performance / behaviour changes when you re-orient the cells. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.000E3C8F; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:35:30 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20757 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:25:37 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23488 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:43:05 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA01425 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts32-14.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts7-12.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.139]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA29217 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704290143.VAA29217@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:41:14 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Help SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Help PostedDate: 04/28/97 06:41:14 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 07:35:33 PM-04/28/97 07:35:34 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 07:35:34 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:17 PM 4/28/97 -0400, STING34@prodigy.net wrote: >HI ! > I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I >could get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I >have finished my very first bot, a Solaroller. Any help would be nice. > >Thanks, > > > Hi STING34@prodigy.net, and welcome. As mentioned in another thread, a simple photovore is a nice next step, after a SolaRoller. With you and Martin, , both being new, and both having completed SolaRollers, it would be neat to hear how you did your building. . . Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.000F32B2; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:46:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20787 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:36:07 -0700 Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (mailhost.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23776 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:07:44 -0500 Received: from my-computer ([207.147.61.56]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA9800 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:07:38 +0000 Message-ID: <336557E5.7528@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:07:33 -0400 From: ERNEST TETIRICK Reply-To: ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Organization: NONE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beamlist Subject: microcore problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net From: ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Subject: microcore problems PostedDate: 04/28/97 07:07:33 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 07:46:05 PM-04/28/97 07:46:07 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 07:46:07 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've been having problems getting my microcore to sequence. All the leds light but they stay on all the time. I've used the 1MO resistors,the caps are 1uf tantalums. I've used the larger ones in order to slow the sequencing action in case that is the problem. Still I get no sequencing action. I'm using a regulated 5 volt power supply and/or a 3 volt dc supply. I get no sequencing with either supply. Any help from anyone on the list would be GREATLY appreciated. Ernest Tetirick Can anyone help me? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.0017C9BC; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:19:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA20955 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:09:56 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24647 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:49:01 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts60ip140.cadvision.com [207.228.74.140]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id VAA05828; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:45:37 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970428214742.00ddc2a0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:47:42 -0600 To: Sandra Mau , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Science Fair 2 In-Reply-To: <9704282202.AA46644@ipo.ipoline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Science Fair 2 PostedDate: 04/28/97 08:47:42 PM SendTo: sumyee@ipoline.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/28/97 09:19:59 PM-04/28/97 09:19:59 PM DeliveredDate: 04/28/97 09:19:59 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:02 PM 4/28/97 -0400, Sandra Mau wrote: > By the way, thanks for the invitation Dave Hrynkiw. If my parents >allow me to go, can my parner go as well? I would imagine so. Remember, we're not sponsoring the event, we've just been asked to recommend who could be good potential competitors for the event. Keep an eye on the mail for a package from India... Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.005D7D2D; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:01:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22103 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:51:16 -0700 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28491 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:49:34 -0500 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA20182 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [128.165.29.34] ([128.165.29.34]) by newreg.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28997 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:49:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:49:09 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "John A. de Vries II" Subject: Viciously, ruthlessly stolen... SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Viciously, ruthlessly stolen... PostedDate: 04/29/97 08:49:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 10:01:07 AM-04/29/97 10:01:08 AM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 10:01:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At least I indicated who owned the copyright. The following was ripped off from the Lab's internal web newsletter. There doesn't seem to be a publicly available version of it, so I stuck it on a server in New Hampshire. Enjoy... http://www.empire.net/~zozzles/workshop.html Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.006444A6; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:15:11 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22513 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:05:22 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29147 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:07:26 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts31ip116.cadvision.com [207.228.70.116]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id LAA133220; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:03:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970429111101.00ddbfd0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:11:01 -0600 To: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu, beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: Success! In-Reply-To: <9704291640.AA06327@aztec.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: Success! PostedDate: 04/29/97 10:11:01 AM SendTo: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 11:15:18 AM-04/29/97 11:15:19 AM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 11:15:19 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:40 AM 4/29/97 -0700, JOHN H. HESS III wrote: >Well, I got the microcore working. You were right about the caps. The only >problem I'm having is that when I use more than 1.5volts of power (I'm using >an adjustable AC adapter), the microcore acts odd. Wow - you're getting it to work and display on only 1.5 volts? You sure it isn't 15volts? You may also be getting problems with "ripple" from the adaptor - try wiring it up with 4 1.5V cells instead. > When I use the PNC to >neutralize processess, they disappear, but when I realease the PNC, the core >reverts back to three process state. It sounds more and more like the ripple in the adaptor. >Does anyone know of a place where I can get good motors/gearboxes in Phoenix >Arizona? "Electronic Goldmine" is in Scottsdale, Az. One of my favourite surplus stores (hope to visit in person one day). >Is there a way to make a device to automatically stabalize the loop to one >process whenever it is activated? Sure is (Richard'll probably explain the circuit layout better than I could, so I'll just give you the principle of operation). If you configure a 7414 to use only 4 of the gates, you can use an RC circuit to hold thru one of the inverters high for "x" amount of time until all the saturation startup pulses are absorbed. When the RC times out, it'll release the lone pulse. OR, go the other route, and hold a node low to absorb 1 of the 2 startup pulses with a shorter RC time. I prefer the first method. >How would a solar walker work? Would I just use a solar engine with a large >(1 Farad?) cap to power the microcore? Didn't need the solarengine in this application, as a schmitt trigger acts enough like a SE to do the same job. Use a standard inverter oscillator (uses 2 gates, 2 caps and 3 resistors, I think) to enable/disable the motor driver (octal bus) 245 chip. When disabled, you're simply powering the uCore, which takes VERY little power to run, especially when no LED's are being lit. So put the solarcell and cap in parallel, use them as Vcc and Gnd, then simply "enable" the 245 when you want it to walk, or "disable " to charge. >Is there a way to make a walker turn? If so, how? Two motor walkers lack good turning ability. You need (at last count) at least 3 motors for a decent turning ability. Ideally, one motor per leg plus a waist gives *very* adept turning ability. >Also... Do I need to make any modifications to the circuit plans if I use an >74HCT245 instead of an ALS for the motor driver? Nope. From what I recall, the HCT does better, especially for solarpowered applications. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.0064B8C8; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:20:09 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22529 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:10:16 -0700 Received: from lists (lists.asu.edu [129.219.10.179]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28933 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:44:19 -0500 Received: from aztec.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-4 #15851) with SMTP id <0E9ERK6LM00ECX@asu.edu> for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:38:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by aztec.asu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06327; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:40:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:40:59 -0700 (MST) From: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu (JOHN H. HESS III) Subject: Success! To: beam@webconn.com Reply-to: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu Message-id: <9704291640.AA06327@aztec.asu.edu> SMTPOriginator: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu From: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu Subject: Success! PostedDate: 04/29/97 09:40:59 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 11:20:13 AM-04/29/97 11:20:14 AM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 11:20:14 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well, I got the microcore working. You were right about the caps. The only problem I'm having is that when I use more than 1.5volts of power (I'm using an adjustable AC adapter), the microcore acts odd. When I use the PNC to neutralize processess, they disappear, but when I realease the PNC, the core reverts back to three process state. When the voltage is less than 1.5v the PNC works perfectly (In fact it's sitting on my dresser blinking away right now while i'm at school. I also have some more microc ore questions: Does anyone know of a place where I can get good motors/gearboxes in Phoenix Arizona? Is there a way to make a device to automatically stabalize the loop to one process whenever it is activated? How would a solar walker work? Would I just use a solar engine with a large (1 Farad?) cap to power the microcore? Is there a way to make a walker turn? If so, how? Also... Do I need to make any modifications to the circuit plans if I use an 74HCT245 instead of an ALS for the motor driver? Thanks for your help! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.00729C1F; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:51:50 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23144 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:41:57 -0700 Received: from seraph.uunet.ca (uunet.ca [142.77.1.254]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31067 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:19:09 -0500 Received: from jdsfit by seraph.uunet.ca with UUCP id <656810-6084>; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:18:51 -0400 Received: from raven.jdsfitel.com (raven [172.26.66.31]) by pigeon.jdsfitel.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA16950 for <@pigeon.jdsfitel.com:beam@webconn.com@pigeon.jdsfitel.com>; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:07:48 -0400 Received: by raven.jdsfitel.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0209; Tue, 29 Apr 97 16:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <9704292014.AA0209@raven.jdsfitel.com> Received: from JDS FITEL Inc with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id 1B19FE207E76DEDF852564880067838C; Tue, 29 Apr 97 16:14:10 To: Beamlist From: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:52:30 -0400 Subject: Re: microcore problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain SMTPOriginator: jdsfit!Mike_Trecieski@seraph.uunet.ca From: Mike_Trecieski@jdsfitel.com Subject: Re: microcore problems PostedDate: 04/29/97 07:52:30 AM SendTo: jdsfit!webconn.com!beam@gromit.webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 01:51:57 PM-04/29/97 01:51:58 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 01:51:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Don't use tantalums because the'yre polarized, use 0.22uf's (regular caps). 1Meg resistors are good -should give you around 1/2 sec or so (depending on voltage) Use CMOS chips. Mike ETetirick @ postoffice.worldnet.att.net (ERNEST TETIRICK) 04/28/97 10:07 PM To: beam @ webconn.com (Beamlist) @ Internet cc: (bcc: Mike Trecieski/HQ/JDS FITEL Inc) Subject: microcore problems I've been having problems getting my microcore to sequence. All the leds light but they stay on all the time. I've used the 1MO resistors,the caps are 1uf tantalums. I've used the larger ones in order to slow the sequencing action in case that is the problem. Still I get no sequencing action. I'm using a regulated 5 volt power supply and/or a 3 volt dc supply. I get no sequencing with either supply. Any help from anyone on the list would be GREATLY appreciated. Ernest Tetirick Can anyone help me? $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256488.007CD6F6; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:43:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23690 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:33:41 -0700 Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31805 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:56:58 -0500 Received: from roxanne (port12.arhl.prodigy.net [204.237.130.12]) by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA53718 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: <33665E27.2988@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:46:31 -0400 From: STING34 Reply-To: STING34@prodigy.net Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Help References: <199704282351.TAA25026@gold.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: STING34@prodigy.net From: STING34@prodigy.net Subject: Help PostedDate: 04/29/97 01:46:31 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: STING34@prodigy.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 03:43:43 PM-04/29/97 03:43:44 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 03:43:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US HI ! I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I could get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I have finished my very first bot, a Solarroller. Any help would be nice. Thanks, $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.000AEDFC; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:59:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24517 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:49:35 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00371 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:43 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09759 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts65-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts30-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20920 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704300139.VAA20920@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:37:40 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: microcore problems SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: microcore problems PostedDate: 04/29/97 06:37:40 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 06:59:30 PM-04/29/97 06:59:31 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 06:59:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I mistakenly sent this reply, directly to Ernie, and neglected the list. It may be applicable to others, so here you go. -Richard. >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:40:07 -0400 >To: ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net >From: Richard Weait >Subject: Re: microcore problems > >At 10:07 PM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I've been having problems getting my microcore to sequence. All the >>leds light but they stay on all the time. I've used the 1MO >>resistors,the caps are 1uf tantalums. I've used the larger ones in >>order to slow the sequencing action in case that is the problem. Still >>I get no sequencing action. I'm using a regulated 5 volt power supply >>and/or a 3 volt dc supply. I get no sequencing with either supply. >> Any help from anyone on the list would be GREATLY appreciated. >> Ernest Tetirick >> Can anyone help me? >> >> >> >Hi Ernest; > > >- get rid of the 1.0 uF caps, and go back to 0.1 or 0.22uf >- 1M resistors should be fine >- Confirm that your supply 5V / 3V is consistant with your >chip selection 'C 'HC 'HCT etc. >- if you are using a PCB it must be cleaned of solder flux > >Good luck > >Richard. > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.000AEF44; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:59:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24514 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:49:32 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00366 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:39 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09751 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts65-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts30-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20903 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704300139.VAA20903@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:37:38 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: microcore problems SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: microcore problems PostedDate: 04/29/97 06:37:38 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 06:59:30 PM-04/29/97 06:59:31 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 06:59:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 07:02 PM 4/29/97 -0400, ETetirick@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote: [snip] >Richard, > Thanks much for your help. I will go back to the .22uf caps. I am >running now but can only sequence one way so I think the problem may be >the 1uf cap size. > What are you using for motors? > Regards, Ernie > Dear Ernie; The microcores that I've worked on only sequence "one way" (and I don't mean "Very well, thank-you!") too. Are you suggesting that you want the microcore to "back-up"? Even though the processes only run through the microcore in one direction, you can still make your robot (or whatever) operate in two, or more directions. The microcore itself will continue ticking away in one direction only. As for motors, well, "motors are a tricky thing . . . " I use whatever I can get my hands on. Let's just wander over to the workbench here. Aaaugh! Oh, sorry, should have warned you about the mess! :-) I've got some pager-motors (SolarBotics, Calgary), cassette-mech motors (Active Surplus, Toronto), salvaged pancake motor (Active Surplus, Toronto), RC servos (Any hobby shop), some assorted gearmotors (un-named, over-priced, non-responsive, main-line distributor), old watch movements. "Look out for that pile of . . . [Crash] . . . databooks! Um, let's go back to the kitchen, where it's safe. . . Bear in mind that _none_ of these operate directly from the microcore. . . they all draw too much current, and must have a driver of some sort. Let's make sure we've got your microcore operating properly, then we can move on. Anyone else care to host a virtual workshop tour? I will try to write-up a more complete tour this week-end. ("Robot is not made with motors, alone!") Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.000B09C3; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:00:33 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24520 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:50:46 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00375 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:45 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09763 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts65-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts30-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20931 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704300139.VAA20931@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:37:43 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Success! SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Success! PostedDate: 04/29/97 06:37:43 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 07:00:42 PM-04/29/97 07:00:43 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 07:00:43 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:40 AM 4/29/97 -0700, cyberg0d@aztec.asu.edu wrote: > > >Well, I got the microcore working. [snip] Congratulations. >Is there a way to make a device to automatically stabalize the loop to one >process whenever it is activated? Here's a little start-up timer that should work. [bad ascii-art follows, "Lock-up the kids, Honey!"] [use a proportional font to view] Vcc----/\/\/\----*----|>o----|>|-----O R1 | U1 D1 Out | = C1 | | Gnd [end bad ascii-art, "It's safe to come out now."] Choose R1 and C1 for a long time constant, with respect to the microcore. For example: if you used 0.22uF caps and 1.0M resistors in your microcore, try a 2.2 uF cap for C1, and a 1.0M resistor for R1. U1 is an unused gate on your microcore. D1 is a small-signal diode (1N914, 1N4148, both fine) If you consider this entire block to be your auto-PNC, just hook the output of the PNC to the input of any one of your microcore inverters. Here's how it works: -power turns on; C1 is low, and starts to charge slowly, due to R1's relatively high value. -U1 inverts the 'low' at C1 to allow D1 to conduct. -current from U1 over rides microcore input and 'eats' processes as they enter the PNC's process. -C1 charges to above the threshold voltage of U1. -U1 output goes low; D1 stops conducting. -D1 (appears to) disconnect from microcore. > >How would a solar walker work? Would I just use a solar engine with a large >(1 Farad?) cap to power the microcore? I guess I'll have to put together something about "Thirsty" my first solar walker. That'll have to wait while I finish some other stuff. > [snip] > >Thanks for your help! > Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.000B0FC5; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:00:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24524 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:50:54 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00379 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:49 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09767 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts65-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts30-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20944 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704300139.VAA20944@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:37:46 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Viciously, ruthlessly stolen... SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Viciously, ruthlessly stolen... PostedDate: 04/29/97 06:37:46 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 07:00:51 PM-04/29/97 07:00:52 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 07:00:52 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 09:49 AM 4/29/97 -0600, "John A. de Vries II" wrote: >At least I indicated who owned the copyright. The following was ripped off >from the Lab's internal web newsletter. There doesn't seem to be a >publicly available version of it, so I stuck it on a server in New >Hampshire. Enjoy... > > http://www.empire.net/~zozzles/workshop.html > > >Zoz > > You are such a rebel, posting copyright'ed material! :-) Nice to see that stuff. I still haven't seen anything "official" on the results, or the lab's feelings about the event. Didn't see any of the newspaper clippings before I left, either . . . Thanks Zoz. Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.000B257C; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:01:44 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24539 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:51:56 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00368 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:41 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09742; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts65-11.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts30-11.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.149.218]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA20883; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704300139.VAA20883@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:37:34 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: [Rant] Re: Help Cc: STING34@prodigy.net SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: [Rant] Re: Help PostedDate: 04/29/97 06:37:34 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: STING34@prodigy.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 07:01:53 PM-04/29/97 07:01:54 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 07:01:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US [this message also cc:'d] Hi Again STING34@prodigy.net; Yes, we hear you. And no, we are not ignoring you. You have posted the same message three times now. That is more than sufficient to get a response. I suspect that you are not familiar with mailing lists, so here are a few tips that may help you avoid getting nasty e-mail in future. - Read the info you get from the mailing list operator. Most mailing lists automatically send you information when you subscribe. Sometimes it just confirms that you are subscribed. Sometimes it includes all sorts of gems like FAQ's, web-sources, un/subscribe info. - Read for a long time before you post. Get the feel of the list. Let other people ask the repetative, beginner questions, and profit by paying attention to the answers. Then, when you know you have a great question / comment . . . - Make your "Subject:" line descriptive. Some experienced users discard posts with "Subject:" lines that don't interest them. "Help" is pretty generic; what if seven people posted calls for "help" on the same day? Even if they all got responses, how would you recognise the one you are interested in, if all the "Subject:" lines read "re:Help"?????? - Allow time for your post, and a response, to work through the system. On a mailing list, it takes longer for things to get distributed, than regular e-mail. You might get an answer back in under an hour, but don't count on it! - Oh yeah. A name might be nice. [end of rant] [begining of STING34's message + old headers] >Message-ID: <336506BD.2D2C@prodigy.net> >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:21:18 -0400 > >Message-ID: <3365220F.24E6@prodigy.net> >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:17:52 -0400 > >Message-ID: <33665E27.2988@prodigy.net> >At 04:46 PM 4/29/97 -0400, STING34@prodigy.net wrote: >HI ! > I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I >could >get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I have >finished my very first bot, a Solarroller. Any help would be nice. > >Thanks, > [end of STING34's message] On the chance that you did not see the earlier responses to your post, and a similar one, I am reposting them here. [repost begins] At 07:53 PM 4/28/97 -0400, "Martin Mladek" wrote: >Hi, I have breadboarded a solarengine and I am able to get two >motors to move a few turns a minute, my question is, how do I >split the voltage to the two motors using photoresistors. When >I hooked them up in series one per motor, I was not able to get >above one third of the turn on voltage (0.8 V vs 2.4V). The >resistors are about 600 ohms in full light and 10k ohms in dark. > Are there online plans for photovores? Not just the basic >circuit. >Thanks for any help. Hi Martin; From you message, it sounds like you might be putting the photoresistors in series with the motors. . . That might not be optimal . . . A very basic way to make a photovore is to make two complete and separate SolaRollers, and then join them, side-to-side. If you build the solar cells on stalks, like solid 24 gauge wire, you can see how the performance / behaviour changes when you re-orient the cells. Cheers, Richard. [repost ends] [repost begins] At 06:17 PM 4/28/97 -0400, STING34@prodigy.net wrote: >HI ! > I am a newbie in this mailling list, and I was woundering were I >could get some plans to build some Beam Robots (or anything else). I >have finished my very first bot, a Solaroller. Any help would be nice. > >Thanks, > > > Hi STING34@prodigy.net, and welcome. As mentioned in another thread, a simple photovore is a nice next step, after a SolaRoller. With you and Martin, , both being new, and both having completed SolaRollers, it would be neat to hear how you did your building. . . Cheers, Richard. [repost ends] $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.0016D61E; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:09:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24724 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:59:32 -0700 Received: from proxy.webconn.com (proxy.webconn.com [206.42.142.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00590 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:50:45 -0500 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by proxy.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00101 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:34:32 -0500 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm1-56.inx.net [198.70.60.56]) by inx.inx.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA02197; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:26:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3366B0FD.2DE9@inx.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:39:58 -0400 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Weait CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Success! References: <199704300139.VAA20931@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: Re: Success! PostedDate: 04/29/97 07:39:58 PM SendTo: crs0274@inforamp.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/29/97 09:09:37 PM-04/29/97 09:09:37 PM DeliveredDate: 04/29/97 09:09:37 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Thanks for the circuit info. I have a question though. I used all gates for my microcore and don't want to use another 7414 just for the circuit. What component can I use to accomplish the same thing? Will a transistor do, or do I have to use something else? Thanks in advance. Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net Richard Weait wrote: > (circuit to create single-process on power up) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.00434AD2; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 05:15:00 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA25263 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 05:05:05 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03033 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:37:51 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA29768 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny2-03.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.67) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029751; Wed Apr 30 06:37:17 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970430074345.2d4fa606@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Re: Success! SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Success! PostedDate: 04/30/97 04:37:48 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 05:15:02 AM-04/30/97 05:15:03 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 05:15:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US You could use the same RC and use it to trigger a voltage detector chip, available from digikey. They have ones that trigger at different voltages. Mark At 10:39 PM 4/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks for the circuit info. > > I have a question though. I used all gates for my microcore >and don't want to use another 7414 just for the circuit. What component >can I use to accomplish the same thing? Will a transistor do, or do I >have to use something else? > > Thanks in advance. > > > Jun Nolasco > nolasco@inx.net >Richard Weait wrote: >> (circuit to create single-process on power up) > > $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.00592712; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:13:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25855 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:03:58 -0700 Received: from minfox.com (minfox.ark.com [204.50.21.161]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA04288 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:04:22 -0500 Received: by minfox.com (Wildcat) id 14404W Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:06:45 GMT From: jim.horner@minfox.com (Jim Horner) Subject: Active Surplus? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:06:37 GMT Message-Id: <862412797@minfox.com> Organization: MINFOX Courtenay, BC (250)-337-2023 To: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: jim.horner@minfox.com From: jim.horner@minfox.com Subject: Active Surplus? PostedDate: 04/30/97 08:06:37 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 09:13:51 AM-04/30/97 09:13:52 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 09:13:52 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US CR>to the workbench here. Aaaugh! Oh, sorry, should have warned CR>you about the mess! :-) CR> I've got some pager-motors (SolarBotics, Calgary), cassette-mech motors CR>(Active Surplus, Toronto), salvaged Richard, could you post the phone number of Active Surplus? Do they put out a catalog? I was going to order some mubachi 3v cassette motors from MCM, but maybe I can get something similar/better from these guys, or at least avoid cross-border charges. thanks CR>pancake motor (Active Surplus, Toronto), RC servos (Any CR>hobby shop), some assorted gearmotors (un-named, over-priced, CR>non-responsive, main-line distributor), old watch movements. CR>"Look out for that pile of . . . [Crash] . . . databooks! Um, CR>let's go back to the kitchen, where it's safe. . . Gee why does this sound so familiar :). Data books piled on techno-scrap awaiting dissassembly, piled on salvaged circuit boards, intermingled with assorted tools, yogurt containers of gears, pots, resistors, sensors, etc, model airplanes hanging from the ceiling, 4 solar-rollers tooling around in the solar roller corral next to the window, old 286 for 8086 8085 8051 assemblers... well thats what I know off hand is in the top layer. I guess the sub-strata contain mostly more of the same :). CR> Anyone else care to host a virtual workshop tour? I will CR>try to write-up a more complete tour this week-end. ("Robot CR>is not made with motors, alone!") CR>Cheers, CR>Richard. My current project: Randy's LM386 line follower. I'll let ya'all know how that goes if anyones interested. ...jim --- ? OLX 2.1 TD ? I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.005A37FD; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:25:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25922 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:15:37 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04752 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:44:55 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21258 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:44:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:44:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whp-ny6-20.ix.netcom.com(199.183.44.212) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma021243; Wed Apr 30 10:44:41 1997 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970430115113.34e70a7a@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: soldering to pager motor SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: soldering to pager motor PostedDate: 04/30/97 08:44:50 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 09:25:35 AM-04/30/97 09:25:36 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 09:25:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, Can one safely solder say a paperclip to the body of a pager motor? Or will the heat destroy the motor? Mark $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.005B99CB; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:40:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25989 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:30:43 -0700 Received: from mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca (mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.184]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA04872 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:49:33 -0500 Received: from [225.150.97.129] (greenfly.watstar.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.150.225]) by mail2.eng.uwaterloo.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA25243; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:45:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:49:33 EDT From: "ED Spike, E&CE Dept." Subject: Re: Active Surplus? To: Jim Horner cc: beam@webconn.com X-Warning: UNAuthenticated Sender In-Reply-To: <862412797@minfox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SMTPOriginator: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca From: SPIKE@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: Active Surplus? PostedDate: 04/30/97 08:49:33 AM SendTo: jim.horner@minfox.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 09:40:43 AM-04/30/97 09:40:44 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 09:40:44 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Active Surplus Electronics and Active Surplus Machinery Ltd. 347 Queen St. W. Toronto, Ont. M5V 2A4 (416)593-0909 (416)593-0967 fax (416)593-0057 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Spike $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.005BDDB9; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:43:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26007 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:33:34 -0700 Received: from wu.bogon.com (wu.bogon.com [207.6.172.33]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05243 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:09:56 -0500 Received: from scotty by wu.bogon.com with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wMbwx-0001KX-00; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:09:47 -0700 Subject: pagermotor To: beam@webconn.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:09:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Scott Martin SMTPOriginator: scotty@bogon.com From: scotty@bogon.com Subject: pagermotor PostedDate: 04/30/97 09:09:47 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 09:43:37 AM-04/30/97 09:43:38 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 09:43:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Mark, You can solder to a pager motor...just don't stay on it too long. Also, use flux...to help speed the process up and to make a stronger connection(mechanical)...also take some sandpaper and rough up the area that you are soldering to. Good Luck. ScottyDogma. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.00657AF0; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:28:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26602 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:18:37 -0700 Received: from quasar.newtonlabs.com (quasar.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.97]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06140 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:41:55 -0500 Received: from bogomips.newtonlabs.com (rsargent@bogomips.newtonlabs.com [206.125.74.108]) by quasar.newtonlabs.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA12300; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:36:37 -0700 Received: (from rsargent@localhost) by bogomips.newtonlabs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA32076; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:36:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:36:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199704301736.KAA32076@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> From: Randy Sargent To: beam@webconn.com Subject: herbie schematics SMTPOriginator: rsargent@newtonlabs.com From: rsargent@newtonlabs.com Subject: herbie schematics PostedDate: 04/30/97 10:36:50 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 11:28:34 AM-04/30/97 11:28:35 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 11:28:36 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Sorry it took a while. I've had around 5 requests for the schematic to "herbie" (the tiny bot with an LM386 for a "brain"). I sketched the schematic and wrote some info and put it on my random robots page at http://newtonlabs.com/people/randy/pictures.html (This page also shows a closeup of our soccer robot and a gratuitous picture of the trophy we won, sorry ;-) ) Herbie seems to have wandered off -- as soon as he comes back I'll snap a picture and put it on the page also. -- Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Sargent Newton Research Labs Senior Design Engineer Robotic Systems and Software rsargent@newtonlabs.com http://www.newtonlabs.com/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.0067B5C0; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:52:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26722 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:42:53 -0700 Received: from alpha.LOGAN.NET (mail.logan.net [207.51.128.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06511 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:24:08 -0500 Received: from default ([207.51.128.235]) by alpha.LOGAN.NET (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 999-32390) with SMTP id AAA283 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:21:17 -0400 Message-ID: <33678C8B.685@logan.net> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:16:43 -0400 From: stalker@logan.net (David Miller) Organization: Digital Blitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: soldering to pager motor References: <2.2.16.19970430115113.34e70a7a@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: stalker@logan.net From: stalker@logan.net Subject: Re: soldering to pager motor PostedDate: 04/30/97 11:16:43 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 11:52:54 AM-04/30/97 11:52:54 AM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 11:52:54 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Mark Lerman wrote: > > Hi all, > > Can one safely solder say a paperclip to the body of a pager motor? Or will > the heat destroy the motor? > > Mark Yes you can, just don't overheat it too badly. You might try a high wattage soldering gun so you do not need to hold the iron on the motor forever. I know it sounds weird but the higher watt gun will heat the motor up less that a lower watt pencil type. As an alternative to this try epoxy glue. The two hour type is the strongest but it takes almost 24 hours to reach full strength. It works for me and I have never had a motor come loose. Just make sure that ALL the oil and grease is removed first and provide ample contact area between the motor case and your bracket. Hope this helps Dave $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.006E293F; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:03:07 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA26996 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:53:11 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06833 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:58:25 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts8ip48.cadvision.com [207.228.67.48]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id MAA05504; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:52:12 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970430125504.00b36738@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:55:04 -0600 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: soldering to pager motor In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970430115113.34e70a7a@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: soldering to pager motor PostedDate: 04/30/97 11:55:04 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 01:03:09 PM-04/30/97 01:03:10 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 01:03:10 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:44 AM 4/30/97 -0500, Mark Lerman wrote: >Can one safely solder say a paperclip to the body of a pager motor? Or will >the heat destroy the motor? It depends on the model. The ones we sell at Solarbotics have shown no problem with soldering to the body, but I've seen some rectangular-ish pager motors where the heat will make the glue holding the motors in place melt and fall apart. If nothing else, use a fuseclip as a motor holder and solder to that. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.007EFD0D; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:07:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA28031 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:57:09 -0700 Received: from nanaimo.ark.com (nanaimo.ark.com [207.107.182.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08252 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:44:40 -0500 Received: from na1p29.ark.com (na1p29.ark.com [207.107.182.92]) by nanaimo.ark.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26244 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:44:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:44:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199704302244.PAA26244@nanaimo.ark.com> X-Sender: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com (Matthew Wiebe) Subject: FLED solarengine and parts SMTPOriginator: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com From: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com Subject: FLED solarengine and parts PostedDate: 04/30/97 03:44:22 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 04:07:12 PM-04/30/97 04:07:13 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 04:07:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I was wondering where I could find the plans for the F-LED solar engine? Also, I live in Nanaimo, BC (central-eastern Vancouver Island), and I was looking for some cheap parts, where could I find them? Thanks, Matthew -------------------------------------- When all else fails, read the manual.| -------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256489.0080E3DB; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:27:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA28114 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:17:55 -0700 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08372 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:59:00 -0500 Received: from Solarbotics (ts70ip243.cadvision.com [207.228.75.243]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id QAA165912; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:55:32 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970430170239.00b28774@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:02:39 -0600 To: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com (Matthew Wiebe), beam@webconn.com From: Dave Hrynkiw Subject: Re: FLED solarengine and parts In-Reply-To: <199704302244.PAA26244@nanaimo.ark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: dave@solarbotics.com From: dave@solarbotics.com Subject: Re: FLED solarengine and parts PostedDate: 04/30/97 04:02:39 PM SendTo: mwiebe@nanaimobc.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 04:27:57 PM-04/30/97 04:27:58 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 04:27:58 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:44 PM 4/30/97 -0700, Matthew Wiebe wrote: >I was wondering where I could find the plans for the F-LED solar engine? We have kits for building some BEAMbots, but you can find the essentials at: http://sst.lanl.gov/robot/plans.html http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/oscillate.html >looking for some cheap parts, where could I find them? Radio Shack will be available,but not the cheapest! Later, dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". EMAIL:dave@solarbotics.com Solarbotics http://www.solarbotics.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825648A.0004C010; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:51:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA28467 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:42:04 -0700 Received: from gatekeeper.dynapro.com (gatekeeper.dynapro.com [207.6.15.221]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08791 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:49:53 -0500 Received: (from gate@localhost) by gatekeeper.dynapro.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA03760 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stealth.dynapro.com(207.6.11.252) by gatekeeper.dynapro.com via smap (V2.0) id xma003750; Wed, 30 Apr 97 16:49:35 -0700 Received: from moonshine.dynapro.com (moonshine.dynapro.com [207.6.10.149]) by stealth.dynapro.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17471 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Microsoft Mail (PU Serial #1137) by moonshine.dynapro.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9a for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1997Apr30.164630.1137.467130; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:48:15 -0700 From: roger_mertin@dynapro.com (Roger Mertin - RD) To: beam@webconn.com (beam) Message-ID: <1997Apr30.164630.1137.467130@moonshine.dynapro.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Organization: D Y N A P R O, 800 Carleton Court, New Westminster, BC, Canada V3M 6L3 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:48:15 -0700 Subject: Structure of Neuron (Nu) Layer SMTPOriginator: roger_mertin@dynapro.com From: roger_mertin@dynapro.com Subject: Structure of Neuron (Nu) Layer PostedDate: 04/30/97 04:48:15 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 05:51:59 PM-04/30/97 05:52:00 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 05:52:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi: I have just read Mark Tilden's "Living Machines" paper and his patent for Nervous Net control technology. Several references are made to a "Neural Net " layer. My question is this: what is the electronic model for a Nu (neural neuron as opposed to a nervous neuron)? Is it a PNC ( or rather PIN?) does it have only a single input ( either excite(+) or inhibit(-)) , or can it have several weighted inputs of either an excite or inhibit nature that are weighted to influence the "firing" of the neuron model? Thanks roger_mertin@dynapro.com $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825648A.000FA48D; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:50:51 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA28668 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:40:55 -0700 Received: from shell.istar.ca (shell.iSTAR.ca [204.191.213.253]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09593 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:25:25 -0500 Received: from inforamp.net (InfoRamp.net [204.191.136.8]) by shell.istar.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA28861 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts11-05.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts11-05.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.151.68]) by inforamp.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA05050 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705010136.VAA05050@inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:34:10 -0400 To: beam@webconn.com From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Active Surplus? SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Active Surplus? PostedDate: 04/30/97 06:34:10 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 07:51:03 PM-04/30/97 07:51:03 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 07:51:03 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825648A.00266320; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:59:17 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA28950 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:49:23 -0700 Received: from dns.img.net (DNS.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10985 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 01:37:55 -0500 Received: from tommairs (port119.img.net [207.34.144.119]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA213 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:51:26 -0700 From: "Mairs, T." To: Subject: Therapy Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:28:57 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970501055124702.AAA213@port119.img.net> SMTPOriginator: tmairs@img.net From: tmairs@img.net Subject: Therapy PostedDate: 04/30/97 10:28:57 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 04/30/97 11:59:22 PM-04/30/97 11:59:23 PM DeliveredDate: 04/30/97 11:59:23 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, my name is Tom, and I'm... well... a techno-holic. Thanks for this fantastic email repeater - I feel like I've been included in a huge group therapy session for techno-holics. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with at least three layers of controllers, gears, motors, and reference books covering every horizontal surface of my house. I'd ask when we start re-hab, but I'm not sure I want to be cured :-) Tom Mairs Aasland Technologies Don't miss out - http://www.img.net/aasland/ Visit the Aasland Web Site for news, reviews, and important information about our changing world $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by Athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825648A.0050FA4E; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:44:29 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (root@gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA29420 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:34:31 -0700 Received: from xfiles.esa.lanl.gov (esa.lanl.gov [128.165.196.1]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12985 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:50:34 -0500 Received: from caent50 by xfiles.esa.lanl.gov with SMTP; Thu, 1 May 1997 7:50:26 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231170000.005b1028@esa.lanl.gov> X-Sender: esorensen@esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 07:50:23 -0600 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Eric B. Sorensen" Subject: article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SMTPOriginator: esorensen@lanl.gov From: esorensen@lanl.gov Subject: article PostedDate: 05/01/97 06:50:23 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 05/01/97 07:44:33 AM-05/01/97 07:44:34 AM DeliveredDate: 05/01/97 07:44:34 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Has anyone seen the May issue of "Dateline Los Alamos" page 7. You can find it here; Cheers to Mr. Tilden