$AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256435.002B49A3; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:52:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA28565 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:44:07 -0800 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07452 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:15:57 -0600 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm2-87.inx.net [198.70.60.87]) by inx.inx.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA03849 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:14:14 -0500 Message-ID: <32F8294F.35EE@inx.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 01:31:44 -0500 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: Questions PostedDate: 02/04/97 10:31:44 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/04/97 11:52:59 PM-02/04/97 11:53:00 PM DeliveredDate: 02/04/97 11:53:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US After playing with the basic microcore circuit as described in Andew Miller's site, I have a question: what would happen if the 245s were replaced by (1) transistors, and (2) L293 H-Bridge chips (before I start wiring and zapping things)? Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256435.002F20A0; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:34:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA28678 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:26:04 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07670 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:22:35 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts17ip110.cadvision.com [207.228.68.110]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id AAA116324; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:27:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970205072945.0073248c@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:29:45 -0700 To: nolasco@inx.net, beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Questions SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Questions PostedDate: 02/04/97 11:29:45 PM SendTo: nolasco@inx.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/05/97 12:34:52 AM-02/05/97 12:34:53 AM DeliveredDate: 02/05/97 12:34:53 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:31 AM 2/5/97 -0500, Jun Nolasco wrote: >I have a question: what would happen if >the 245s were replaced by (1) transistors, and (2) L293 H-Bridge >chips (before I start wiring and zapping things)? I've played with the 293s with the uCore, which _do_ work, but not with very much energy. You'd need a very efficient motor system with anything under a 6 volt system. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256435.00365742; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:53:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA28865 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:44:51 -0800 Received: from quasar.newtonlabs.com ([204.137.132.193]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA07960 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:05:21 -0600 Received: from bogomips.newtonlabs.com (rsargent@bogomips.newtonlabs.com [204.137.132.204]) by quasar.newtonlabs.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA27098; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:09:42 -0800 Received: (from rsargent@localhost) by bogomips.newtonlabs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA00702; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:08:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:08:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199702050908.BAA00702@bogomips.newtonlabs.com> From: Randy Sargent To: beam@webconn.com, nolasco@inx.net Subject: L293 H-bridges SMTPOriginator: rsargent@newtonlabs.com From: rsargent@newtonlabs.com Subject: L293 H-bridges PostedDate: 02/05/97 01:08:32 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com,nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/05/97 01:53:36 AM-02/05/97 01:53:37 AM DeliveredDate: 02/05/97 01:53:37 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > At 01:31 AM 2/5/97 -0500, Jun Nolasco wrote: > >I have a question: what would happen if > >the 245s were replaced by (1) transistors, and (2) L293 H-Bridge > >chips (before I start wiring and zapping things)? > > I've played with the 293s with the uCore, which _do_ work, but not with very > much energy. You'd need a very efficient motor system with anything under a > 6 volt system. Weird. I've not hooked up a L293d to a uCore, but in my experience, they are great chips. I've never run them below 5 volts -- what's typical for a uCore? L293d's have integrated catch diodes, and temperature protection. Transistors, on the other hand, are fairly easy to blow up by accidentally shorting the output. L293d's can handle 600ma, which can run most cheap DC motors, provided you're not running the motors too close to stall. If you notice your L293 getting extremely hot (burn your finger) and the motors getting weak, the temperature protection is cutting in -- this most likely means you're running the motors too close to stall. The slower the motor is going, the more current it takes, so be sure to gear the motor down adequately so that the motor can get up to speed. -- Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Sargent Newton Research Labs Senior Design Engineer Robotic Systems and Software rsargent@newtonlabs.com http://www.newtonlabs.com/ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256435.005B5BE0; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:37:53 -0700 Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA29855 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:29:11 -0800 Received: from liberty.acl.lanl.gov (mwd@liberty.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.157]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02428; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:34:28 -0700 (MST) From: "Mark W. Dalton" Received: (mwd@localhost) by liberty.acl.lanl.gov (8.7.5/8.6.4) id JAA11468; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:34:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199702051634.JAA11468@liberty.acl.lanl.gov> Subject: Re: What Happened to mwd's page? To: laurence@dl.com (Laurence Mayer) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:34:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: beam@webconn.com In-Reply-To: <88256435.0056CF48.00@athena.dl.com> from "Laurence Mayer" at Feb 5, 97 08:03:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@acl.lanl.gov From: mwd@acl.lanl.gov Subject: Re: What Happened to mwd's page? PostedDate: 02/05/97 08:34:27 AM SendTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/05/97 08:38:01 AM-02/05/97 08:38:01 AM DeliveredDate: 02/05/97 08:38:01 AM Categories: $Revisions: > > Since this probably has already been asked 100 times, could someone (mwd?) > just send me a private email and let me know I'm not going crazy? > You are crazy... I am sending this to the list, because apparently my e-mail earlier this week did not get to you. > I noticed that BEAM List messages stopped altogether about 2 weeks ago. > Then when I went to look at Mark Dalton's web site (http: > //www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html), I just checked it and it works. > the Webconn server told me the page wasn't there. Other pages at Webconn > were accessible, it was like BEAM was wiped off the > face of the earth. Also the Archives page (http: > //www.webconn.com/mail/beam/) stop at October 10th! Was there a server > crash? > There was a disk that was lost earlier I did not notice, they restored the information from October, hence the reason you only see the older mail. Webconn is working hard to get everything back. > > I have since re-subscribed to the list. > Thanks! Now you are subscribed twice... laurence@smtplink.dl.com laurence@dl.com Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256436.00127471; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:21:34 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02973 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:58 -0800 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09792 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:01:20 -0600 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm2-73.inx.net [198.70.60.73]) by inx.inx.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA18848 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:00:13 -0500 Message-ID: <32F93F4A.5805@inx.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 21:17:46 -0500 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Motor feedback to microcore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: Motor feedback to microcore PostedDate: 02/05/97 06:17:46 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/05/97 07:21:42 PM-02/05/97 07:21:43 PM DeliveredDate: 02/05/97 07:21:44 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Where can I get more info on how feedback from a walker's motors affects the microcore circuit? Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256437.001B1040; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:55:36 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07750 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:45:21 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12495 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:51:22 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts21ip230.cadvision.com [207.228.68.230]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id TAA55626; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:56:49 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970207025923.00735310@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:59:23 -0700 To: Randy Sargent , beam@webconn.com, nolasco@inx.net From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges PostedDate: 02/06/97 06:59:23 PM SendTo: rsargent@newtonlabs.com,beam@webconn.com,nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/06/97 08:55:46 PM-02/06/97 08:55:47 PM DeliveredDate: 02/06/97 08:55:47 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:08 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Randy Sargent wrote: >> I've played with the 293s with the uCore, which _do_ work, but not with very >> much energy. You'd need a very efficient motor system with anything under a >> 6 volt system. > >Weird. I've not hooked up a L293d to a uCore, but in my experience, they >are great chips. I've never run them below 5 volts -- what's typical for a >uCore? Depends on the application. I used 5V as that's what 4 AA nicads provide in a walker robot (alkalines are better of course for voltage). >L293d's can handle 600ma, which can run most cheap DC >motors, provided you're not running the motors too close to stall. If you >notice your L293 getting extremely hot (burn your finger) May be true, but it's still not sufficient to run modified servos with enough (pardon the expression) balls to make for good walking strength. The chip never got hot, but simply didn't do the job well enough. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256437.004C1DA4; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:51:23 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA09505 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:42:40 -0800 Received: from ftp2.ix.netcom.com (ftp2.ix.netcom.com [199.35.181.67]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA13305 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:56:35 -0600 Received: from whp-ny3-02.ix.netcom.com (mlerman@whp-ny3-02.ix.netcom.com [199.183.44.98]) by ftp2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA13744 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:01:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:01:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970207080746.30b7c03c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: mlerman@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: Mark Lerman Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges SMTPOriginator: mlerman@ix.netcom.com From: mlerman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges PostedDate: 02/07/97 05:01:20 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/07/97 05:51:26 AM-02/07/97 05:51:27 AM DeliveredDate: 02/07/97 05:51:27 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I think the problem here, Dave, is voltage drop. Nicads give 4 x 1.2=4.8 v fully charged. The 293 doesn't use mosfets, so voltage drop across the bridge is 1.2 volts or so, giving 3.6 volts across the motor at full charge. Also, I don't think the 293 is rated below 5 volts, so you may have had problems there as well. Mark Lerman At 07:59 PM 2/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 01:08 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Randy Sargent wrote: >>> I've played with the 293s with the uCore, which _do_ work, but not with very >>> much energy. You'd need a very efficient motor system with anything under a >>> 6 volt system. >> >>Weird. I've not hooked up a L293d to a uCore, but in my experience, they >>are great chips. I've never run them below 5 volts -- what's typical for a >>uCore? > >Depends on the application. I used 5V as that's what 4 AA nicads provide in >a walker robot (alkalines are better of course for voltage). > >>L293d's can handle 600ma, which can run most cheap DC >>motors, provided you're not running the motors too close to stall. If you >>notice your L293 getting extremely hot (burn your finger) > >May be true, but it's still not sufficient to run modified servos with >enough (pardon the expression) balls to make for good walking strength. The >chip never got hot, but simply didn't do the job well enough. > >-Dave $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256437.00657BA1; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:28:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA10178 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:19:44 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13951 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:37:20 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts33ip161.cadvision.com [207.228.70.161]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id JAA107060; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:42:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970207164449.00733a18@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:44:49 -0700 To: Mark Lerman , beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: L293 H-bridges PostedDate: 02/07/97 08:44:49 AM SendTo: mlerman@ix.netcom.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/07/97 10:28:37 AM-02/07/97 10:28:38 AM DeliveredDate: 02/07/97 10:28:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:01 AM 2/7/97 -0800, Mark Lerman wrote: >I think the problem here, Dave, is voltage drop. Nicads give 4 x 1.2=4.8 v >fully charged. The 293 doesn't use mosfets, so voltage drop across the >bridge is 1.2 volts or so, giving 3.6 volts across the motor at full charge. > >Also, I don't think the 293 is rated below 5 volts, so you may have had >problems there as well. Yup, that's precisely the problem. Even the spec sheet says that it drops 1.2 volts sourcing and 1.5 sinking (or vice-versa). Now, does anybody know of any MOSFET versions of a 293? Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256437.0065978F; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:29:39 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA10184 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:20:52 -0800 Received: from wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov (wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov [128.165.140.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13974 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:42:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199702071642.KAA13974@gromit.webconn.com> Received: from beowulf by wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov with SMTP; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 9:49:57 -0700 (MST) X-Sender: 101256@wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:47:24 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Feedback SMTPOriginator: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov From: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: Feedback PostedDate: 02/07/97 09:47:24 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/07/97 10:29:49 AM-02/07/97 10:32:03 AM DeliveredDate: 02/07/97 10:32:03 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US A message, does anyone care to offer a answer? The only thing I've checked out is Millers instructions on http://www.golden.net/~amiller AND http://www.golden.net/~amiller/Microcore.htm, an explaination of the microcore but lacks how the feedback works. Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:09:00 -0800 From: Ken Fall To: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: Beam technology,feedback X-URL: http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Hello...Can you point me in the right direction in finding some information on how feedback from the motors in the NV Beam robots affects the nervous network. I've read Mark Tildens postscript file titled "Living Machines" and I've built the basic circuit for the nervous net but I seem to still be a little in the dark on how the motors generate feedback to the nervous net. I was given your address as a suggestion of where to seek additional information. Regards Ken Fall http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256438.007DF5EB; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:55:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14149 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:46:53 -0800 Received: from hil-img-6.compuserve.com (hil-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.136]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16821 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:39:19 -0600 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA02211; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:47:34 -0500 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:47:24 -0500 From: Don Ruehrwein Subject: Fresnel Lense To: BEAM e-mail Message-ID: <199702081647_MC2-10FF-B85A@compuserve.com> SMTPOriginator: dnruehrwein@compuserve.com From: dnruehrwein@compuserve.com Subject: Fresnel Lense PostedDate: 02/08/97 01:47:24 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/08/97 02:55:53 PM-02/08/97 02:55:54 PM DeliveredDate: 02/08/97 02:55:54 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I've just used a credit card sized plastic fresnel lens (cost = 50 cents at a surplus store) to approximately double the light gathering capacity of my solar cell. I've held the lens in front of the solar cell so that the light image is about the same size as the cell. The period between activations of my solar engine (one Solarbotics standard solar cell and a 5,000 MFD capacitor) dropped from about nine seconds to about 4 seconds(it's late afternoon and the sun light is not very strong). It's probably important to make sure that the light image is not concentrated to too small of a size so that no damage is done to the solar cell from heat. I know that fresnel lenses have been used in other solar energy concentration schemes but I haven't seen any BEAM uses of them yet. Of course I'm fairly new to BEAM so I may have just missed any previous discussions. It seems like a good idea, the lense is cheap, readily available, small, light weight and effective. It should be easy to mount it over the solar cell. Have fun. Don $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256439.00121C8F; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:17:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14516 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:09:05 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17400 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 20:30:49 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts31ip124.cadvision.com [207.228.70.124]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id TAA85750; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:38:00 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970209024044.0073fc60@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:40:44 -0700 To: Don Ruehrwein , BEAM e-mail From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Fresnel Lense SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Fresnel Lense PostedDate: 02/08/97 06:40:44 PM SendTo: dnruehrwein@compuserve.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/08/97 07:17:52 PM-02/08/97 07:17:53 PM DeliveredDate: 02/08/97 07:17:53 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:47 PM 2/8/97 -0500, Don Ruehrwein wrote: >It seems like a good idea, the lense is cheap, readily available, small, >light weight and effective. It should be easy to mount it over the solar >cell. In the past, available solarcells were not that efficient and attempts to use fresnel lenses to increase the efficiency weren't that good. This was because they also filtered more of the infrared spectrum (bad thing), and added weight to the critter (another bad thing). But you bring up a good idea that could be persued now that there are much better solarcells that can make better use of the increased light levels. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643A.006D26E4; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:52:13 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA19531 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:43:26 -0800 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20165 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:50:19 -0600 Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id LAA08868 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:59:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from po_box.cig.mot.com (po_box.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.5]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.6/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with SMTP id LAA18022 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:59:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199702101800.NAA07319@po_box.cig.mot.com> Received: (dyer@localhost) by calamite.cig.mot.com (8.6.11/SCERG-1.12B) id LAA16103 for beam@webconn.com; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:59:20 -0600 From: Bill Dyer Subject: Questions about motors To: beam@webconn.com Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:59:20 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: dyer@cig.mot.com From: dyer@cig.mot.com Subject: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/10/97 09:59:20 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 11:52:25 AM-02/10/97 11:52:26 AM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 11:52:26 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I have a couple questions about motors and gear trains. First, has anybody found a good (read cheap :-) source for motors with gear trains already attached? I have found cheap motors, I have found a few cheap sources for gear boxes, I have found expensive gear motors. Although I wouldn't really mind putting the motors and gear boxes together, I figured for my first walker it would be easier the less variables I had. Now on to some techincal questions. 1. About how many RPM is good at the output shaft for the basic two motor walker? I know that the I can alter the time constant of the delay circuit in the MicroCore, but I read that some motors (RC Servos for example) are too fast. On sort of a side note, while experimenting with the MicroCore, I ended up with 3 or 4 different delay times at various nodes. Depending on where these were in the loop, it really screwed with the patterns that I was able to get. Are different delay times within in single loop useful in any MicroCoer walkers or do they tend to screw things up? In multiple MicroCore walkers, do all the MicroCores have the same delay characteristics? I would assume not always, but I am just guessing. Now you can see why am keen to get my motors, I want to get my basic walker going so I can try some of the more complicated things :-). 2. Can I make a viable walker with a 3 volt power supply (or whatever the output of two AA batteries actually is). So far I have built all my circuits using 3 volts but can I run 2 motors off 3 volts and get enough torque to make the thing walk. I want to keep the weight down obviously and the batteries are the heaviest thing on the bot. 3. I was reading a little bit about the physics of gear trains and they talked about something called backlash. It seems that most people want to minimize backlash, but I am assuming that backlash is probably necessary in beam walker to provide the feedback to the motor and ultimately to the MicroCore? Am I correct or am I not understanding what backlash is? Thanks in advance for any help. -Bill _____________________________________________________________________________ | Bill Dyer, Senior Staff Engineer - dyer@cig.mot.com - (847) 632-7460 | | Motorola Inc. - Cellular Products Division - Cellular Infrastructure Group| | You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity - Buzz Lightyear | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.00075510; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:20:05 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21900 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:11:24 -0800 Received: from wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov (wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov [128.165.140.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21145 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:46:02 -0600 Message-Id: <199702102346.RAA21145@gromit.webconn.com> Received: from beowulf by wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov with SMTP; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:55:44 -0700 (MST) X-Sender: 101256@wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:53:05 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Re: Questions about motors SMTPOriginator: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov From: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/10/97 04:53:05 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 05:20:06 PM-02/10/97 05:20:08 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 05:20:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:59 AM 2/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a couple questions about motors and gear trains. > >First, has anybody found a good (read cheap :-) source for >motors with gear trains already attached? I have found cheap >motors, I have found a few cheap sources for gear boxes, I >have found expensive gear motors. Although I wouldn't really >mind putting the motors and gear boxes together, I figured >for my first walker it would be easier the less variables I had. I don't know of any place with inexpensive motors and gear trains sooo... Let's hear all about these cheap gear boxes. Tom. http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.00079BDD; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:23:06 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21921 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:14:21 -0800 Received: from timbuk.cray.com (timbuk.cray.com [128.162.19.7]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21204 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:00:56 -0600 Received: from ironwood.cray.com (root@ironwood-fddi.cray.com [128.162.21.36]) by timbuk.cray.com (8.8.4/CRI-gate-8-2.11) with ESMTP id SAA00187 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from sequoia (mwd@sequoia-fddi [128.162.21.1]) by ironwood.cray.com (8.8.4/CRI-ccm_serv-8-2.8) with SMTP id SAA15883 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:19 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Dalton Received: by sequoia (SMI-8.6/btd-b3) id SAA11979; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199702110010.SAA11979@sequoia> Subject: Motors, sorry about the empty message To: beam@webconn.com Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:17 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24-CRI-b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: mwd@cray.com From: mwd@cray.com Subject: Motors, sorry about the empty message PostedDate: 02/10/97 04:10:17 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 05:23:10 PM-02/10/97 05:23:12 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 05:23:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Sorry about the empty message: (looks like my LANL machine lost nfs).. About the motors.. I find deals every once in awhile. The latest deal I saw was.. Small DC Motor $6.95/motor 1.5 inchs overall length, 0.625 inch diameter, with 0.25 inch long, 0.0625 inch diameter shaft. 144:1 gear ratio. Draws 85RPM @ 5VDC, 25mA. Part # 96M004 Alltronics, 2300 Zanker Road San Jose, CA 95131-1114 (408) 943-9773 http://www.altronics.com <-- motors not listed on-line Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.0008EA59; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:37:22 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21983 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:28:41 -0800 Received: from commx (COMMX.LTX-TR.COM [153.33.32.81]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21073 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:19:37 -0600 Received: from bugs.federation (bugs.federation.ltx-tr.com) by commx.ltx-tr.com; Mon, 10 Feb 97 15:27:59 PST Received: from bugs (localhost) by bugs.federation (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08428; Mon, 10 Feb 97 15:31:00 PST Sender: batinic@ltx-tr.com Message-Id: <32FFAFB4.41C67EA6@ltx-tr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:31:00 -0800 From: Ivan-Pierre Batinic Organization: LTX/Trillium X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Alternative "Source" for 1 Farad Caps References: <2.2.16.19961217121814.2a8f3d50@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: batinic@ltx-tr.com From: batinic@ltx-tr.com Subject: Alternative "Source" for 1 Farad Caps PostedDate: 02/10/97 03:31:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 05:37:29 PM-02/10/97 05:37:31 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 05:37:31 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello there-- This may be useless, and is probably premature on my part; please bare with me, and keep your fingers crossed! Disclaimer #1: Admittedly, I stumbled upon this "source", and it is not clear to me that it will be available to all of you (no, its not quite dumpster-diving at the manufacturer). Disclaimer #2: I have not tried the one I've acquired in a solar engine, but I have tried charging it. I believe there is a rather high series resistance either inherent to the device or internally packaged (hybrid) -- or I have a bad unit. If it is internal, it should be possible to bypass/remove the resistor. I think It's too high to be inherent to the device, though I only have had 5-minutes with cycle testing (more tonight). It is clearly rated "1F 5.5V" including a "- - -" polarity stripe. It is approximately 5/8" round by 3/16" tall. It looks like a chubby lithium cell w/shrink-wrap (blk w/gold print) The manufacturer is unknown, though I think there is a logo to go by so we may be able to get specs (I can look it up) The problem in my case is as follows: If I charge it directly w/5V, I read 5V at the leads, no matter what the cap's actual charged-level is -- there must be a series resistance. This may mean that the usable output current would be seriously limited. I am posting before satisfactory testing in the hope that some of you will be able to concur the find, and determine its viability and availability. I have yet to open the device to determine if it is a hybrid package w/series resistor (I doubt it will though it acts like it). If any of you have experience with this type of cap or cap-behavior, please clue me in so I can efficiently switch to wasting time elsewhere ;) THE 'SOURCE': At second-hand stores (in my case, "Goodwill Stores"), there are usually a plethora of ancient asnwering machines, most of which are priced under 5 U.S. dollars. My unit was $2.99 out the door, and I got it because it was the same as my old one which never had the call-in access feature working. I was simply going to replace it. This store had at least ten such machines. It is a "PHONE-MATE model 5000". This is a very small unit, approx. 4x6x2.5 inches overall. I've only seen them in white tops w/black bottom. The micro-cassette is under a flip-lid on the left top, with the speaker louvres on the right. The switches (5 I think -- sorry, I'm at work now) are all metallic push-buttons, square, all in a row at the front-top. The two LED's are the message-count flasher (red) and the "memo" feature (green, above the switch labeled 'memo'). There is a third "record" red LED under the flip-lid. The make and model are on a black and silver sticker underneath the unit. Inside the unit, you can't miss it, and it has a 'C' part designation which is what braught my attention to it in the first place (how many have I overlooked as an assumed-to-be battery? Depressing thought). If it is possible, I would like others to check this out. There may be others that use similar technology but be forewarned: opening up a machine before purchasing is generally frowned upon and may carry some jail-time with the offense (check your local laws). Incidentally, why is this cap used in an answering machine anyway?? This particular machine remembers the message count even if unplugged (without a prior tape scan). I'm assuming that is the reason. I will continue testing and eventually dissect the thing if necessary; I will follow-up unless one of you beat me to it -- Good Luck! Ivan P.S. Please note that There are two of us "IVANs" on this group. This is only my 2nd posting. My current BEAM endeavor is in aqua-bot design which is almost ready to prototype. The propulsion method is unusual; I am not sure if it violates any BEAM rules; I admit I have not ordered them yet (only source I know of is the games-info packet -- are just the rules posted somewhere?). I will gladly post this design when I am satisfied that it is worth building; even if it does not conform to BEAM rules, it may be of interest. -- # ________ --------------------------------------------- # # | |__ __ \/ / Ivan-Pierre Batinic +1(408) 383-2487 # # | |__| |__> < LTX Corp./Trillium Div. FAX:+1(408) 433-0255 # # |____| |___/\ \ 3930 N. First St. San Jose CA 95134-1501 USA # $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.000ED364; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:41:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA22198 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:33:05 -0800 Received: from mail.inforamp.net (Mail.InfoRamp.Net [204.191.136.66]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21305 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:20:37 -0600 Received: from ts16-02.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts16-02.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.138.122]) by mail.inforamp.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id TAA27318; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:23:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702110023.TAA27318@mail.inforamp.net> X-Sender: crs0274@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:27:01 -0500 To: Bill Dyer From: Richard Weait Subject: Re: Questions about motors Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: crs0274@inforamp.net From: crs0274@inforamp.net Subject: Re: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/10/97 04:27:01 PM SendTo: dyer@cig.mot.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 06:42:00 PM-02/10/97 06:42:01 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 06:42:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:59 AM 2/10/97 -0600, Bill Dyer wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a couple questions about motors and gear trains. > >First, has anybody found a good (read cheap :-) source for >motors with gear trains already attached? [snip] Well, if we can overlook your request for "cheap". . . I really like the motor / gearhead combinations available from MicroMo, http://www.micromo.com/ not cheap, by my measure, but lots of combinations to choose from. They have filled my orders promptly. [begin rant] Portescap makes Escap motors and gearheads and might be as good as MicroMo, but I wouldn't know. Their sales people have not returned any of my phone calls or faxes. . . The catalog is "nice and pretty" but I get better service at surplus shops than I have had from Protescap's Canadian distributor. [end rant] > [snip] >2. Can I make a viable walker with a 3 volt power supply [snip] Well, maybe. The electronics will work nicely at 3 volts. Motors and capacitors should be no problem, but why are you using batteries? Really good solar cells in the 3 volt range will be 'tons' lighter. Either way, the sticking point will be voltage losses in your motor _driver_. Not an insurmountable problem, but something to keep in mind. > >3. I was reading a little bit about the physics of gear trains and > they talked about something called backlash. [snip] A simplified description: The amount of space between the meshed teeth of a pair of gears. >-Bill Cheers, Richard. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.001391EE; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:33:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA22390 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:25:00 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21752 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:09:01 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts55ip212.cadvision.com [207.228.73.212]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id TAA10602; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:16:28 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970211022032.0073eb08@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:20:32 -0700 To: Mark Dalton , beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Motors, sorry about the empty message SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Motors, sorry about the empty message PostedDate: 02/10/97 06:20:32 PM SendTo: mwd@cray.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 07:33:55 PM-02/10/97 07:33:56 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 07:33:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 06:10 PM 2/10/97 -0600, Mark Dalton wrote: >Small DC Motor $6.95/motor > 1.5 inchs overall length, 0.625 inch diameter, with 0.25 inch long, > 0.0625 inch diameter shaft. 144:1 gear ratio. Draws 85RPM @ 5VDC, 25mA. > > Part # 96M004 Have you seen them yet? Any good? I've got them sending me a full catalog first, then I'll order a few based on what the picture looks like. Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.0013DB51; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:36:53 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA22395 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:28:04 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21748 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:08:22 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts55ip212.cadvision.com [207.228.73.212]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id TAA05722 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:16:26 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970211022030.006d90b4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:20:30 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Questions about motors SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/10/97 06:20:30 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/10/97 07:36:59 PM-02/10/97 07:37:00 PM DeliveredDate: 02/10/97 07:37:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 05:53 PM 2/10/97 -0700, Thomas N. Claytor wrote: >At 11:59 AM 2/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I have a couple questions about motors and gear trains. >> >>First, has anybody found a good (read cheap :-) source for >>motors with gear trains already attached? I have found cheap >>motors, I have found a few cheap sources for gear boxes, I >>have found expensive gear motors. Although I wouldn't really >>mind putting the motors and gear boxes together, I figured >>for my first walker it would be easier the less variables I had. Well, the modified servos that were discussed earlier are really not _that_ bad. You _do_ have to drive them with at least 6 volts if you're using some H-Bridge (discrete or chip, ie: lm293). When they do work, they are very quick and strong, and tend to make "thrashers" rather than "walkers". I'm sure some clever design would make them suitable for "runners". You still can't beat the price of a servo with it's internal electronics gutted out, like $10 for the cheapest to $100 for metal-geared servos. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643B.00608925; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:34:25 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24667 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:25:44 -0800 Received: from wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov (wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov [128.165.140.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23149 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:48:35 -0600 Message-Id: <199702111548.JAA23149@gromit.webconn.com> Received: from beowulf by wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov with SMTP; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 8:58:47 -0700 (MST) X-Sender: 101256@wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:56:09 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Re: Questions about motors SMTPOriginator: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov From: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/11/97 08:56:09 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/11/97 09:34:34 AM-02/11/97 09:34:35 AM DeliveredDate: 02/11/97 09:34:35 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US This looks like a great resource, I just ordered their catalog. > > Try Martin P.Jones & Associates for a good selection of inexpensive >motors. they are on the web at: > http://www.mpja.com >I have been ordering motors from them for about a year now and have >found no one to beat their prices. They have a great 3V pager motor in >the newest catalog that I have been using for my SYMETS plus a whole >selection of gearhead motors. > David Miller I.S.Coordinator 3D/Group,Inc. > http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643C.002247F3; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:14:26 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA27383 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:05:45 -0800 Received: from warp.cwave.com (warp.cwave.com [205.150.32.10]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25150 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:25:00 -0600 Received: from dialup176.cwave.com (dialup176.cwave.com [205.150.32.176]) by warp.cwave.com (NTMail 3.02.10) with ESMTP id ca068720 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:37:01 -0700 Message-ID: <330155F0.64FB@cwave.com> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:32:32 -0700 From: Elmar Sveda Reply-To: esveda@cwave.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: esveda@cwave.com From: esveda@cwave.com Subject: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans PostedDate: 02/11/97 09:32:32 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: esveda@cwave.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/11/97 10:14:33 PM-02/11/97 10:14:35 PM DeliveredDate: 02/11/97 10:14:35 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Does anyone have any plans that are available for a solar engine that uses a cmos timer or voltage level circuit in it that I may have a look at. I would really appreciate it. Elmar $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.002544F2; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:47:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02713 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:38:16 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28251 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:03:50 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts47ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.72.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id XAA14524; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:13:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970213061651.00937bb0@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:16:51 -0700 To: Bill Dyer , beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Questions about motors SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Questions about motors PostedDate: 02/12/97 10:16:51 PM SendTo: dyer@cig.mot.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/12/97 10:47:08 PM-02/12/97 10:47:08 PM DeliveredDate: 02/12/97 10:47:08 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 11:59 AM 2/10/97 -0600, Bill Dyer wrote: >First, has anybody found a good (read cheap :-) source for >motors with gear trains already attached? Like I've said before, modified servos seem to be the most cost effective way _so far_. Not the best, but they'll do... >1. About how many RPM is good at the output shaft for the basic > two motor walker? Very dependant on what you want it to do, and what the characteristics of the motors are. I've got one that is about 10 rpm (slow), and another servo-bot that must be at least 10 times that quick. >Are different delay times > within in single loop useful in any MicroCoer walkers or do they tend > to screw things up? Uesful. If you want more "climbing" (ie front motors more active), then the adjustable time constant lets you put more *oomph* to them. >In multiple MicroCore walkers, do all the > MicroCores have the same delay characteristics? Nope. Not mine, anyway. >2. Can I make a viable walker with a 3 volt power supply (or > whatever the output of two AA batteries actually is). Not likely. Although the "brains" may work, you won't get sufficient power out of a motor driver chip or h-bridge circuit unless if you have at least 5 or 6 volts driving it. You can find some pretty small nicads that you can gang up to get 5/6 volts. Have fun, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.0025A283; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:51:04 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA02720 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:42:15 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28250 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:03:50 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts47ip174.cadvision.com [207.228.72.174]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id XAA53492; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:13:18 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970213061655.00926a78@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:16:55 -0700 To: esveda@cwave.com, beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans PostedDate: 02/12/97 10:16:55 PM SendTo: esveda@cwave.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/12/97 10:51:12 PM-02/12/97 10:51:13 PM DeliveredDate: 02/12/97 10:51:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:32 PM 2/11/97 -0700, Elmar Sveda wrote: >Does anyone have any plans that are available for a solar engine that >uses a cmos timer or voltage level circuit in it that I may have a look >at. I would really appreciate it. From a previous post that had a similar bend: Hmmm. Just dug out the old notebook. Now, I'm NOT guarenteeing that I wrote this down correctly, but as of Dec 28 1994, I made this little sketch at: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/images/hirez/555.pcx It shows my topographic schematic, and a rough PCB layout that we prototyped a few times for internal use. Keep in mind that it is just a sketch, so no comments about scan/handwriting quality, or NO MORE! ;-> Feel free to borrow for _personal_ usage only. Later, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.004866B6; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 05:10:48 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA03408 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 05:01:48 -0800 Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA28831 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:22:34 -0600 Received: from poseidon.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelay-SVR4_1.3/RBCS) id LAA29210; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:34:03 +0100 Received: from mekong.cs.utwente.nl by poseidon.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id LAA13118; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:34:02 +0100 Received: from localhost by mekong; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:34:29 +0100 Sender: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl Message-Id: <3302EE33.185F@cs.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:34:27 +0100 From: Alexander Apostolovski Organization: University of Twente X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Autom. design of 4 legged robot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl From: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl Subject: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/13/97 02:34:27 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 05:10:55 AM-02/13/97 05:10:56 AM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 05:10:56 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am starting to work on a program that searches for the ideal 4 legged walking robot. That is : given a particular robot and a specific gait I test its energy consuption, speed and stability. After testing that, I will use a genetic algorithm for creating new 'child' robots. ---Has anyone info about this subject--- Especially the use of GA's and the evaluation of gaits. Thanks, Alexander ------------------------------ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.004DFA32; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:11:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03499 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:02:54 -0800 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA29073 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 05:22:08 -0600 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA01520 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from transitory11.lanl.gov by newreg.lanl.gov (8.7.5/SMI-4.1) id EAA00136; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:33:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:33:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199702131133.EAA00136@newreg.lanl.gov> X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: zozzles@lanl.gov (John A. deVries II) Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans PostedDate: 02/13/97 03:33:39 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 06:11:50 AM-02/13/97 06:11:51 AM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 06:11:51 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dave offers: >http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/images/hirez/555.pcx Help? What mime type and subtype do I use to receive this file properly? I'm afraid that my copy of Netscape (I'm guessing that this isn't a version related problem, by the way) is treating the drawing as encoded text... and since it doesn't know the encoding "iso 8859-1" or whatever, it just writes it raw to the window. Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.004E2309; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:13:27 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03518 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:04:44 -0800 Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA29070 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 05:21:30 -0600 Received: from poseidon.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelay-SVR4_1.3/RBCS) id MAA29808; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:33:02 +0100 Received: from mekong.cs.utwente.nl by poseidon.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id MAA13851; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:32:59 +0100 Received: from localhost by mekong; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:33:29 +0100 Sender: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl Message-Id: <3302FC08.6C18@cs.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:33:28 +0100 From: Alexander Apostolovski Organization: University of Twente X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Autom. design of 4 legged robot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl From: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl Subject: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/13/97 03:33:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 06:13:33 AM-02/13/97 06:13:33 AM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 06:13:33 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am starting to work on a program that searches for the ideal 4 legged walking robot. That is : given a particular robot and a specific gait I test its energy consuption, speed and stability. After testing that, I will use a genetic algorithm for creating new 'child' robots. ---Has anyone info about this subject--- Especially the use of GA's and the evaluation of gaits. Thanks, Alexander ------------------------------ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643D.0058FCD8; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:11:59 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA03783 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:03:15 -0800 Received: from internet-mail2.ford.com (internet-mail2.ford.com [198.111.80.24]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29367 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:04:28 -0600 Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com id AB16003 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for BEAM@webconn.com); Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:16:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199702131416.AB16003@internet-mail2.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:16:05 -0500 From: "John Anderson" Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:16:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 15feb95) To: BEAM@webconn.com Subject: 4 motor walker ( repost ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii SMTPOriginator: janders3@ford.com From: janders3@ford.com Subject: 4 motor walker ( repost ) PostedDate: 02/13/97 06:16:04 AM SendTo: BEAM@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 08:12:07 AM-02/13/97 08:12:08 AM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 08:12:08 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I sent this a while ago, during the webconn outage. I thought it was gone, but rediscovered the file today... ******************************************************************** On Jan 15, 6:20pm, Andrew Miller wrote: > Subject: Re: 4 motor walker questions > > >Four motor walkers are posible (two halves of a two motor) but they have > > >some small problems with non-equalised load... > > > > Actually, Mark's student Matt Moses built one using only 4 servos in much > > the same configuration. It's part of the YUMA videotape Mark showed me once. > > Comments/conclusions Matt? (I think he's part of this group) > > > > Yup he built a couple as did I.... > Probs with the motors wanting to swing all the way around to the front > ... > I had to put restriction stops on the front legs and some hefty return > springs... > And I belive that Matt did the same.... > > Was a Kool Idea that had some flaws.... > > all4nw Well, I finally got some time to come back to this. Thanks to everyone for all the help, unfortunately, it is all ( for now anyway ) in vain. As I was yet again tweaking the legs of my walker I roached one of the gearboxes =:-O *&^%!!!! I have since ripped the 4 motor 'bot apart, and built a solar roller out of the roached motor, and a two motor walker out of 2 of the remaining 3 good ones. I'm having much more success at getting the 2 motor 'bot to walk, though I'm still tunning. Enough of that, on to the real reason I'm writing this... I'm curious about the problems with 4 motor walkers stated above. Much of what I'm about to say may already be common knowledge to all of you, but I'm just discovering it, and would like your feedback. My 4 motor walker was roughly square, and symmetrical about both the lateral and longitudinal axis, with the motors tipped 30 degrees in both of those planes. As I mentioned earlier, it would adapt rather quickly ( 3 process cycles max ) to it's walking stance, which looked kind of like this... \ / ---- | | With the true angles on all legs being roughly 45 degrees from the ---- 'bot's axis. / \ Once it reached this stance, it would, regardless of the activation pattern, or leg geometry, oscillate about this stance without making significant progress in any direction. Now that I look back on it, the result is not that surprising. I've been involved in hobby robotics for a long time, and have always thought as long as you have control, control, control, the geometry can be arbitrary. Well, with Nv control, most of the smarts are built into the geometry, and with a geometry built with no preference in walking direction, the 'bot will try to walk in all directions, or no direction. The result being the same. Anyway, I'm off the track again. My real question comes with the problems other 4 motor walkers have exhibited with their front legs, and the need to put stops and springs in the geometry. I'd like to know what the orientation of the front motors is. My 'bot did not exhibit the errant behavior stated above. If you isolate one leg of such a walker, it seems the Nv would adapt to keeping the leg centered about the orientation of lowest potential energy. Tipping the motor about either the lateral or longitudinal axis will produce such an energy well, and controlling the ratio of the two angles should allow you to position the well at any point along the circle swept by the foot, and control how steep the walls of the well are. I know I've neglected the coupling between the legs, and the what dynamic effects ther e are, but I have witnessed this in my two motor walker. The front legs, being inclined 30 degrees about the lateral axis, are very stable, and show no inclination to over or under rotate. The back legs, however not having an incline are statically unstable, and the slightest perturbation sends them into over rotation. So what's the point of all this? 1 ) I wonder, in the absence of any real analog in the biological world, is it possible to construct a dynamically stable ( my 4 motor 'bot was ) which will still produce a walking gait ( my 'bot didn't )? 2 ) I also wonder, in keeping with a possible biological analog, could the problems of a 4 motor walker be solved with two more unpowered spring legs placed between the 4 powered legs? \____/ | | --| |-- <-- unpowered legs compliant about the lateral axis, and in |__| compression. / \ Thanks for listening, I know this has been way long, and of questionable value. John -- John voice: 313-323-7226 fax: 313-390-4565 profs: janders3 email: janders3@pms850.pms.ford.com loc: ECC, MD-10, cube 212-1A $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.00081F4E; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:28:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06717 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:19:50 -0800 Received: from commx (COMMX.LTX-TR.COM [153.33.32.81]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA30424 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:06:17 -0600 Received: from bugs.federation (bugs.federation.ltx-tr.com) by commx.ltx-tr.com; Thu, 13 Feb 97 16:16:36 PST Received: from bugs (localhost) by bugs.federation (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09742; Thu, 13 Feb 97 16:20:06 PST Sender: batinic@ltx-tr.com Message-Id: <3303AFB6.41C67EA6@ltx-tr.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:20:06 -0800 From: Ivan-Pierre Batinic Organization: LTX/Trillium X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Apostolovski Cc: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot References: <3302FC08.6C18@cs.utwente.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: batinic@ltx-tr.com From: batinic@ltx-tr.com Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/13/97 04:20:06 PM SendTo: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 05:28:53 PM-02/13/97 05:28:54 PM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 05:28:55 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Alexander: Sounds like an interesting project. As for GA (gate arrays), I have had experience in using Actel (series I through III) Xilinx and others. The two I mention are low-cost FPGA (Field Programmable). It costs about $1K for the programming hardware, $400 for the software and the chips themeselves range from $20 to $300. These are gross estimates and likely to have changed since 2 years ago, so I would inquire by contacting distributors in your area (both companies are locate in San Jose Ca. I believe). The factors in chosing the technology are application frequency requirements first, then density. Both use completely different technologies. The difference between Xilinx and Actel is that Xilinx makes all of their interconections with an SRAM (static RAM) cell, where as Actel patented an "Anti-Fuse(tm)" technology where a connection is created as opposed to "burning opens" in the typical programmable fuse-map technology like PALs have. The Actel devices are faster, because the antifuse(tm) is metal, whereas the SRAM cell of Xilinx has a c-component in its AC model, slowing the signals, the further they go across the die. For your application, the speed is not important (probably) because Xilinx will operate at frequencies around 10mHz or higher. As for re-using the device, only Xilinx is re-usable. This is perfect for prototyping and keeps your cost down. The method of downloading your fuse-map to the device is accomplished any way you like (link to a PC, EPROM or ROM circuit etc.). The standard CAD packages can be used in the front-end of your design to limit the cost of the software (if you already have OrCAD or PCad etc.). For example, schematic capture is wide open, regardless of which GA you use. There are companies such as AMI which can take your completed design and create ASSICs (App. specific Int. Circuits) directly, for significant cost reduction in quantities, and elevated performance. Finally, the gate-requirements of a design is easy to estimate, especially if you have done this type of thing before (i.e. your first attempt is potentially confusing). Basically the libraries available in the software packages contain 'macros' which are groups of the atomic module the die you choose has arrays of. The library macros plug into yuour schematic, and take care of the low-level connections. The accompanying software textbooks tell you exactly how many and what type of atomic module is used for each macro, as well as the propagation delay fanoput etc. This means that higher-level macros like synchronous counters and adders are used in your design, and each carry a gate-count or module-count. The design at the block-level can be evaluated. Leave room for decoding logic and other combinatorial stuff you may need, and remember that both companies do have 100% usability of the entire die, and claim to be able to route the design. In other words, in theory any design you throw at them theoreticall will route. Some do not, especially the first revision. If you get to that point, there are ways to make the design more routable w/o losing functionality or density in most cases. The output and input pins are programmable to be compatible with different logic families and tristate-ability as well. IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE OF XILINX besides the re-usability is that Xilinx has INTERNAL three-state bus driving capability. In virtually all designs, you will find the need to drive data from multiple sources; with Actel, you use multiplexer-selectors, with xilinx, you use drive output enables and paralleled drivers. The former uses more logic. Ivan Alexander Apostolovski wrote: > > I am starting to work on a program that searches for the > ideal 4 legged walking robot. > That is : given a particular robot and a specific gait I test > its energy consuption, speed and stability. After testing that, > I will use a genetic algorithm for creating new 'child' robots. > > ---Has anyone info about this subject--- > Especially the use of GA's and the evaluation of gaits. > > Thanks, > > Alexander > > ------------------------------ -- # ________ --------------------------------------------- # # | |__ __ \/ / Ivan-Pierre Batinic +1(408) 383-2487 # # | |__| |__> < LTX Corp./Trillium Div. FAX:+1(408) 433-0255 # # |____| |___/\ \ 3930 N. First St. San Jose CA 95134-1501 USA # $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.000E59D1; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:36:45 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA06946 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:27:54 -0800 Received: from commx (COMMX.LTX-TR.COM [153.33.32.81]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA30594 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:25:05 -0600 Received: from bugs.federation (bugs.federation.ltx-tr.com) by commx.ltx-tr.com; Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:35:37 PST Received: from bugs (localhost) by bugs.federation (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10177; Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:39:00 PST Sender: batinic@ltx-tr.com Message-Id: <3303C234.2781E494@ltx-tr.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:39:00 -0800 From: Ivan-Pierre Batinic Organization: LTX/Trillium X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Alternative "Source" for 1 Farad Caps References: <2.2.16.19961217121814.2a8f3d50@popd.ix.netcom.com> <32FFAFB4.41C67EA6@ltx-tr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: batinic@ltx-tr.com From: batinic@ltx-tr.com Subject: Re: Alternative "Source" for 1 Farad Caps PostedDate: 02/13/97 05:39:00 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 06:36:50 PM-02/13/97 06:36:51 PM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 06:36:51 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello again: Following up on this 'find'. I dismantled the 1F cap fdrom the PHONEMATE-5000. The assembly essentially forms a 2-cell battery holder, as a series circuit. The two 'cells' look a lot like lithium pancake-style sealed metal cans. The high resistance was due to what appeared to be leaking material and corrosion on the contacting surfaces. The unit I have was defective, one cell capable of charging to 2.7V and the other capable to only 0.4V. I will get another machine to check out another one and determine the usability of this device. I have had no reply regarding the original posting -- I take it no one has checked this out, or has no second-hand source for these machines. Ivan -- # ________ --------------------------------------------- # # | |__ __ \/ / Ivan-Pierre Batinic +1(408) 383-2487 # # | |__| |__> < LTX Corp./Trillium Div. FAX:+1(408) 433-0255 # # |____| |___/\ \ 3930 N. First St. San Jose CA 95134-1501 USA # $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.001FA6F3; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:45:43 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA07363 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:36:53 -0800 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA30874 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:37:21 -0600 Received: from newreg.lanl.gov (newreg.lanl.gov [128.165.3.60]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA17042 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from transitory48.lanl.gov by newreg.lanl.gov (8.7.5/SMI-4.1) id VAA00399; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:49:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:49:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199702140449.VAA00399@newreg.lanl.gov> X-Sender: u096767@esh-mail.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: beam@webconn.com From: zozzles@lanl.gov (John A. deVries II) Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot SMTPOriginator: zozzles@lanl.gov From: zozzles@lanl.gov Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/13/97 08:49:20 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 09:45:46 PM-02/13/97 09:45:46 PM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 09:45:46 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >Alexander: > >Sounds like an interesting project. As for GA (gate arrays), I have had >experience in using Actel (series I through III) Xilinx and others. Ivan-Pierre: Nice article about Gate Arrays. I was involved with relatively early ones (TI) about 15 years ago at Lockheed, so they are still near and dear to my heart. Those were, of course, not field-programmable... that notion brings up the idea of being able to use such a GA as a kind of rather active memory, even on the robot itself... So, just how far ARE you from the Rosicrucian Museum? Zoz $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.002634CB; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:57:18 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07484 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:48:28 -0800 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA30950 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:50:51 -0600 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm1-49.inx.net [198.70.60.49]) by inx.inx.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA15780 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:55:34 -0500 Message-ID: <330402A6.7659@inx.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:13:58 -0500 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Motor power question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: Motor power question PostedDate: 02/13/97 10:13:58 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 10:57:25 PM-02/13/97 10:57:26 PM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 10:57:26 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Should the motor power be separated/isolated from the nervous net power? I am asking because the nervous net goes berserk every time the motors start moving. I can never get the NV to maintain a single process state. It always goes to the saturated state. If I separate/isolate the motor power supply, the motors seem to work just fine and the NV stays on the single process state. I just don't know if there is any feedback at all though. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance. Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.00299216; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:34:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA07602 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:25:14 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA30993 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:35:10 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts27ip197.cadvision.com [207.228.69.197]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id XAA21444; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:45:28 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970214064912.0074d2fc@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:49:12 -0700 To: nolasco@inx.net, beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Motor power question SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Motor power question PostedDate: 02/13/97 10:49:12 PM SendTo: nolasco@inx.net,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/13/97 11:34:11 PM-02/13/97 11:34:12 PM DeliveredDate: 02/13/97 11:34:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 01:13 AM 2/14/97 -0500, Jun Nolasco wrote: >Should the motor power be separated/isolated from the >nervous net power? I am asking because the nervous net goes >berserk every time the motors start moving. You have to have smoothing caps near the Nv net for this reason, in the region of 10 to 22uF at least. Bigger the better. The walkers I built have been single power supply with no problems, but others may have better suggestions for you. -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643E.00335AEE; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:20:56 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07868 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:11:54 -0800 Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA31077 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 02:24:09 -0600 Received: from default (mflagg.mry.scruznet.com [165.227.103.162]) by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) with SMTP id AAA24458 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:36:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33042394.5CD4@desertstar.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:34:28 -0800 From: Andrew Goldstein Organization: Desert Star Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: aeg@desertstar.com From: aeg@desertstar.com Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/14/97 12:34:28 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/14/97 01:21:06 AM-02/14/97 01:21:07 AM DeliveredDate: 02/14/97 01:21:07 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, Ivan-Pierre Batinic wrote a great introduction to gate arrays, but I believe Alexander ment Genetic Algorithms (GA). Karl Sims wrote a good paper entiled "Evolving 3d Morphology and Behavior by competition" that decribes the evolution and compition of moving virtual creatures. This may be of some help to you. It is in Artificial Life Volume 1 Number 14 published by MIT press. It might also be reprinted in one of the Artifical Life books by SFI. I think it is also online somewhere, with some nice mpegs of his virtual creatures. One thing to note is that GA (genetic algorithms) are pretty damn slow on most computers (single cpu) if your problem space is real big. The majority of species will be of low to zero fitness. Sims did his simulations on a 32 processor Thinking Machines CM-5. In the Feb 10 issue of EE Times there is an article on Tom Daniel, a zoologist at the University of Washington. He recently won a MacArthur grant for his work on applying and engineering methodology to biological problems. "He is attempting to develop a predivtive model of how living organisms move". The article is by Brian Santo and is on page 117. I hope that helps a bit. Rather than using GA to evolve novel gaits, it might be good to start with rigorously classifing all kinds of motion in terms of energy consuption, speed and stability, or anyother parameters you can think of. I dont know if this has been done before, but it seems to me it should have. Since this is my first post I'll introduce myself: My name is andy goldstein. I am 24 and recently graduated the university of Pittsburgh with a BA in Materials Science and one in Computer science. I moved to monterey california 6 months ago and work for a small company called Desert Star Systems (www.desertstar.com). We make underwater acoustic navigation and communication equipment. I have been on this list for 2 days and think it's great. I have been interested in robots and artifical life since I was about 2 ;). That about covers it. -andy $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643F.000CFAD1; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:21:46 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11031 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:12:59 -0800 Received: from mailhost.lanl.gov (mailhost.lanl.gov [128.165.3.12]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA32455 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:12:38 -0600 Received: from physics.lanl.gov (aerie.lanl.gov [128.165.51.75]) by mailhost.lanl.gov (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA19559; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.165.205.238] (bob1.lanl.gov) by physics.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07355; Fri, 14 Feb 97 13:47:13 MST Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3302EE33.185F@cs.utwente.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:47:55 +0100 To: Alexander Apostolovski From: "Mark W. Tilden" Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot Cc: beam@webconn.com SMTPOriginator: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov From: mwtilden@aerie.lanl.gov Subject: Re: Autom. design of 4 legged robot PostedDate: 02/14/97 04:47:55 AM SendTo: apostolo@cs.utwente.nl CopyTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/14/97 06:21:54 PM-02/14/97 06:21:55 PM DeliveredDate: 02/14/97 06:21:56 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US >I am starting to work on a program that searches for the >ideal 4 legged walking robot. >That is : given a particular robot and a specific gait I test >its energy consuption, speed and stability. After testing that, >I will use a genetic algorithm for creating new 'child' robots. > >---Has anyone info about this subject--- >Especially the use of GA's and the evaluation of gaits. If you check Artificial Life proceedings, you'll find quite a few who have already tried this over the past ten years, mostly, for some reason, in England, Scotland, and Brussels. Most simulations showed that a form of aphasic walking could be obtained using backprop NNs in as little as 60 generations, but only for a particular walking structure, usually a unique idealization of a square with 4 legs with knees. Unfortunately, most showed that bifurcations of the genetic algorithm tended to the extreme without fixed physical constants, and those that modified the constants produced solutions optimal to satisfy the motivation parameter, but not the physical ones (Karl Sims). Finally, it seems the real problem with using GAs is that they never optimize a design, only satisfy it to a low upgrade quotient. As such I have never seen a GA walker that really walked well, only walked adequately. I feel, therefore, that your thesis might be initially flawed from the physical constrants values. I would recommend looking up the work of Collins and Stewart who have written a few papers on model-independant walking for animals. Lots to be done there, and paramaterizable for your project. Good luck. markt. $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825643F.001C8535; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:11:31 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA11250 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:02:29 -0800 Received: from inx.inx.net (inx.inx.net [198.70.60.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA32652 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:04:29 -0600 Received: from nolasco.inx.net (pm1-54.inx.net [198.70.60.54]) by inx.inx.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA21468; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:09:41 -0500 Message-ID: <33053B5B.7802@inx.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:28:11 -0500 From: Jun Nolasco Reply-To: nolasco@inx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" CC: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Motor power question References: <1.5.4.32.19970214064912.0074d2fc@cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SMTPOriginator: nolasco@inx.net From: nolasco@inx.net Subject: Re: Motor power question PostedDate: 02/14/97 08:28:11 PM SendTo: skip@cadvision.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com ReplyTo: nolasco@inx.net $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/14/97 09:11:40 PM-02/14/97 09:11:42 PM DeliveredDate: 02/14/97 09:11:42 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics) wrote: > > You have to have smoothing caps near the Nv net for this reason, in the > region of 10 to 22uF at least. Bigger the better. The walkers I built have > been single power supply with no problems, but others may have better > suggestions for you. Actually, I already figured that one out already. Maybe I was just to quick with my email fingers. :-) Thanks. Jun Nolasco nolasco@inx.net P.S. Have you ever seen a tantalum capacitor blow up? I just did last night and it was a fiery sight! $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256440.0001150D; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:11:49 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA13500 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:02:46 -0800 From: Treadj@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00828 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:52:53 -0600 Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA21212 for beam@webconn.com; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:06:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:06:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970215180612_-838645277@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: beam@webconn.com Subject: career project SMTPOriginator: Treadj@aol.com From: Treadj@aol.com Subject: career project PostedDate: 02/15/97 03:06:12 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/15/97 04:11:58 PM-02/15/97 04:11:59 PM DeliveredDate: 02/15/97 04:12:00 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Friends on line. My family have had a grand time building all sorts of "critters" that now roam our house at will. This has inspired my thirteen year old boy to chose robotics as his career project for school. Did you know that it is hard to find robotics engineers for a boy to get information from. Do they actually exist? Surley someone out there builds these for industry or science. We are searching for a kind heart to take interest in a young boy and help out with some info. Any takers? Sorry if this is an intrusion or off subject we are just desperate at this point. Ryan(son) and Stephani (mom) $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256442.007FCF89; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:16:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22769 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:07:13 -0800 Received: from wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov (wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov [128.165.140.3]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06419 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:00:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199702182200.QAA06419@gromit.webconn.com> Received: from beowulf by wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov with SMTP; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:16:01 -0700 X-Sender: 101256@wxvax9.esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:13:25 -0700 To: beam@webconn.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Re: career project SMTPOriginator: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov From: claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Subject: Re: career project PostedDate: 02/18/97 03:13:25 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/18/97 03:16:12 PM-02/18/97 03:16:13 PM DeliveredDate: 02/18/97 03:16:13 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Ryan, Check out: http://www.inuktun.com/ and then go to related Robotic links in their table of contents. Many of the major university robotic programs are listed. Tom. At 06:06 PM 2/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >Friends on line. My family have had a grand time building all sorts of >"critters" that now roam our house at will. This has inspired my thirteen >year old boy to chose robotics as his career project for school. Did you know >that it is hard to find robotics engineers for a boy to get information from. >Do they actually exist? Surley someone out there builds these for industry or >science. We are searching for a kind heart to take interest in a young boy >and help out with some info. Any takers? >Sorry if this is an intrusion or off subject we are just desperate at this >point. > >Ryan(son) and Stephani (mom) > http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n@lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256445.000ED00C; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:41:47 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03533 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:32:52 -0800 Received: from mail.cedarville.edu (mail.cedarville.edu [163.11.10.195]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11984 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:48:44 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.cedarville.edu (smtpgate.cedarville.edu [163.11.1.51]) by mail.cedarville.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA28592 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:05:47 -0500 Received: from CEDARNET-Message_Server by smtpgate.cedarville.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:06:31 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:06:07 -0500 From: Nathan Weyer Wright To: beam@webconn.com Subject: MicroMouse question.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline SMTPOriginator: S1151548@cedarnet.cedarville.edu From: S1151548@cedarnet.cedarville.edu Subject: MicroMouse question.... PostedDate: 02/20/97 05:06:07 PM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/20/97 06:41:59 PM-02/20/97 06:42:00 PM DeliveredDate: 02/20/97 06:42:01 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I am representing the Cedarville College MicroMouse team and this being our first year, I am looking for a MicroMouse competition that we might join. Could anyone tell me who is in charge of the Beam MicroMouse competition, where it is this year, and when it is? Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks -Nathan Wright "s1151548@cedarville.edu" $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256447.00031E40; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:34:03 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01241 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:24:54 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey2.cadvision.com [207.228.64.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29744 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:40:16 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics.cadvision.com (ts4ip144.cadvision.com [207.228.66.144]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id JAA47644; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:50:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970213165359.0073b208@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:53:59 -0700 To: zozzles@lanl.gov (John A. deVries II), beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Solar engine with cmos timer circuit plans PostedDate: 02/13/97 08:53:59 AM SendTo: zozzles@lanl.gov,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/22/97 04:34:11 PM-02/22/97 04:34:12 PM DeliveredDate: 02/22/97 04:34:12 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 04:33 AM 2/13/97 -0700, John A. deVries II wrote: >Help? What mime type and subtype do I use to receive this file properly? This is an older graphic file type called PCX - I used it just because that's what my hand-scanner put out. I'll try to GIF it in the near future (ie:same URL, just with .gif instead of .pcx on the end). -Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256449.001D341A; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:18:58 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA11900 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:10:04 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01183 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:19:46 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics (ts67ip139.cadvision.com [207.228.75.139]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id VAA96610; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:37:15 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970225043952.006e1cb4@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:39:52 -0700 To: mmladek@interlog.com (Martin Mladek), beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: Solarengine problems SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: Solarengine problems PostedDate: 02/24/97 08:39:52 PM SendTo: mmladek@interlog.com,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/24/97 09:19:10 PM-02/24/97 09:19:11 PM DeliveredDate: 02/24/97 09:19:11 PM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:16 PM 2/24/97 EST, Martin Mladek wrote: >Hi, I've been reading this list for a while now and I am trying to build my own solarengine based on Mark Tildens plan. Sounds like a current-generating problem to me. Solarcells from calculators are notorious for good voltage but low-current power generation. Try wiring up the cells so they generate about 4 volts, which should triple the current. >My understanding was that the capacitor would charge up til the voltage reaches >the zener diode "on" level without any current/voltage/power loss. Zener diodes draw more and more power as they reach the "trigger" point. If the solarcell can't provide enough power to overcome this extra current draw, it'll stabilize at a point where the zener "leaks" as much current as the cells provide. Try substituting a Flashing LED for the zener. Give much the same function, at better efficiency. Regards, Dave ps to all: Updates to the website are due pretty quick. We're altering some of our prices, and adding some stuff. Feel free to visit. -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 88256449.006926E1; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:08:32 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA13153 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:59:38 -0800 Received: from river.tay.ac.uk (river.tay.ac.uk [193.60.160.99]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18863 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:44:06 -0600 Received: from tay.ac.uk by tay.ac.uk (PMDF V5.0-4 #15107) id <01IFU6ZMOJ3KD7PRYA@tay.ac.uk> for beam@webconn.com; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:04:14 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:50:59 +0000 (GMT) From: "Paul'SHADOW'Clarke" Subject: Steer by Wire Systems To: beam@webconn.com Message-id: <01IFU7HCH8T0D7PRYA@tay.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT SMTPOriginator: E94PC@tay.ac.uk From: E94PC@tay.ac.uk Subject: Steer by Wire Systems PostedDate: 02/25/97 07:50:59 AM SendTo: beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/25/97 11:08:37 AM-02/25/97 11:08:38 AM DeliveredDate: 02/25/97 11:08:38 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi Sorry to bother everyone but I could really do with some help here. I've just received my degree level project for Mechatronics and its to research, design and build a steer-by-wire system for a vehicle. The idea is too contruct a steering mechanism to generate an input for a computer or microcontroller and use it to actuate a standard steering assembly from a car. The option of whether or not to use a real car assembly or construct one from mechanno has not been decided yet. What I need is sources of information concerning steer-by-wire, drive-by-wire, etc.. If anybody knows of such information, or has attempted a project like this, could they get in touch with me.....please.....! Well I know one thing for certain, this will knock the socks off my previous BEAM stuff. Now to go and see if I can persuade the University to foot the bill for a Mitsubishi 4x4....for the steering assembly of course! :) oh, theres an exhibition on in Glasgow for all you British BEAMers ROBOTIX 97 13-16 March Theres a web site for more info if anyones interested. 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"#**eu .$$$$$$$$ $AdditionalHeaders: Received: from dl.com by athena.dl.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) with SMTP id 8825644B.00680201; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:56:02 -0700 Received: from gromit.webconn.com (gromit.webconn.com [206.42.142.5]) by dl.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19086 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:47:08 -0800 Received: from huey.cadvision.com (huey.cadvision.com [204.50.1.2]) by gromit.webconn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24689 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:36:34 -0600 Received: from Solarbotics (ts45ip122.cadvision.com [207.228.72.122]) by huey.cadvision.com (8.7.5/8.7.5/DCX/TRI) with SMTP id KAA157450; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:34:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970227173721.007429b8@cadvision.com> X-Sender: skip@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:37:21 -0700 To: Nathan Weyer Wright , beam@webconn.com From: "Dave Hrynkiw (Solarbotics)" Subject: Re: MicroMouse question.... SMTPOriginator: skip@cadvision.com From: skip@cadvision.com Subject: Re: MicroMouse question.... PostedDate: 02/27/97 09:37:21 AM SendTo: S1151548@cedarnet.cedarville.edu,beam@webconn.com $UpdatedBy: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteServers: CN=Athena/O=DLNOTES/C=US RouteTimes: 02/27/97 10:56:22 AM-02/27/97 10:56:23 AM DeliveredDate: 02/27/97 10:56:23 AM Categories: $Revisions: BlindCopyTo: CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 08:06 PM 2/20/97 -0500, Nathan Weyer Wright wrote: >I am representing the Cedarville College MicroMouse team and this >being our first year, I am looking for a MicroMouse competition that >we might join. Could anyone tell me who is in charge of the Beam >MicroMouse competition, where it is this year, and when it is? Any >help would be gratefully appreciated. There is talk that there will be a micromouse event held at the Western Canadian Robot Games this year, sponsored by the local IEEE group ( http://www.starcard.com/wcrg ). The games are May 24 this year, and will have BEAM Solaroller, Photovore, Aesthetics and Walker events as part of the larger events (ie: Sumo, Atomic Hockey.. visit the website!) Regards, Dave -- "Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes, that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_". NEW EMAIL:skip@cadvision.com Solarbotics URL: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/index.html