From: "Padraig M O'Cleirigh" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Another intro... ComposedDate: 12/13/96 06:06:50 PM PostedDate: 12/13/96 06:06:50 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, My name is Ciaran, from the looks of things your probably bored of introductions but here it goes. I am 16 years old, live in Guelph Ontario, don't have any experience in robotics, think solar powered BEAM critters are the greatest, and hope to learn alot from all of you guys. I won't force you to read any more, so happy building :) - Ciaran From: Richard Diaz SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Micromotors ComposedDate: 12/14/96 03:51:10 PM PostedDate: 12/14/96 03:51:10 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello BEAMster's, I recently came across some info on micromotors published in the Dec96/Jan97 edition of Air & Space Smithsonian, page 18. The small article is titled "Baby Huey" and is about a German company that had developed what the builder's think is the world's smallest twin motor helicopter. "Technicians at the Institut fur Mikrotechnik in Mainz, Germany, which specializes in tiny technology, wanted to prove the power of their new micromotors, which spin at 400,000 rpm and are normally used in things like laser scanners and ultrasound catheters" the article stated. Included with the text is a picture of the copter sitting on top of a peanut. "It weighs just over a hundredth of an ounce, measures less than an inch end to end, and is three-tenths of an inch high." As best as I can scale from the photo, it seems as if the tiny motor bodies measure out to be roughly 5/32" diameter by 1/4" long and look similar to pager motors. I'd like to see these units for $10.00...would'nt you? GROUP BUY !!! GROUP BUY !!! ;-) Happy Holidays From: "Mike O'Connor" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Light to Motion (was Robotic Insects) ComposedDate: 12/14/96 10:32:30 PM PostedDate: 12/14/96 10:32:30 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US -- [ From: Mike O'Connor * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > From: Bill Pierce \ Internet: (bill_pierce@cpqm.mail.saic. com) ---snipage--- > The main thrust of Thaakoor's research at this point seems > to be in perfecting the microactuator. The article ends with saying that they > "would like to use piezoceramic materials that bend in respose to light instead > of electricity." > ---snipage--- -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- Bill, Thanks for the post about the ants. The piezoceramic photomechanical actuators in the ants made me wonder if anyone on the mailing list is familiar with other nonelectrical methods of converting light directly into motion. In the seventies, a magazine (Popular Science?) article instructed readers how to build a purely mechanical solar engine. The actuators were made from stretched pieces of dark plastic garbage bags. If I remember correctly stretching the plastic caused the long polymers to line up side by side. When exposed to sunlight parts of molecules would try to cross link with their neighbors. This caused the plastic to contract. The solar engines produced rotational motion from the contraction. It's been about twenty years and I can't remember if the instructions were for a static engine or a solar roller. Suppose you want to build a solar roller. Take two disposable styrofoam plates (the type you use for picnics). Connect the center of each plate to each end of a dowel like two wheels on an axle. The bottoms are facing out ward and the tops, where you normally place the food, face each other. Finally, run strips of the plastic from the rim of one plate to the rim of the other plate, parallel to the axle. More sunlight hits the strips on top than the strips on the bottom. The top strips contract more and draw the top edges of the plates closer together. The plates distort slightly. The edges on the ground spread a little farther apart. This raises the center of gravity slightly and causes it to over balance. It starts to roll. As strips approach the top they contract and when they are at the bottom they relax, so the rotation continues. With youthful enthusiasm I tried to build one and failed completely. The plastic garbage bag material was very difficult to work with. I also lacked the skills needed to produce the precision required. Twenty years latter, it seems like it would be very difficult to build. Did the author of the article actually have a working model? Not only would all the dimensions need to be exact but the stresses in all the strips must be equal and the whole thing needs to be perfectly balanced. A tough job. Still, after all this time I keep thinking about purely mechanical solar rollers. In fact they were about the second thing I thought of when I saw the first BEAM article (Algorithm or WER). "Hey look, this Tilden guy builds small solar powered vehicles from stuff most people throw away too." The first thought was, of course, "Wow this is so cool." While the construction would be difficult, designing a photomechanical photovore is straight forward. You probably already thought of a way to make one two paragraphs ago. With some Rube Goldberg meets Leonardo da Vinci mechanisms a solar mechanical walker seems possible. Has anyone else on the mailing list seen the original mid 70's article? I think it was in Popular Science because it was the only magazine I subscribed to at the time. After first reading about BEAM I made a couple of half hearted and unsuccessful searches for it in the local libraries. If I bought the magazine at a store or checked it out of the library it's probably unfindable. Do you have any more information on the piezoceramic photoactuators? Do they expand or contract when light hits them? How efficient are they? What were plastic trash bags made out of twenty years ago? How efficient a photoactuator is it? Well, it's time to bring this overly long and boring post to an end. Thanks, Mike -- Mike O'Connor mikeo1@lex.infi.net From: bushbo@xtdl.com (Brian O. Bush) SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Muscle wires? ComposedDate: 12/14/96 11:17:45 PM PostedDate: 12/14/96 11:17:45 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, I was just looking through some of my old stuff, and i ran across a nintinol wire (Muscle wire) kit. Has anyone tried interfacing this stuff to BEAM robot Nv nets? If anyone has, please let me know if it is worth doing? Brian Brian O. Bush, Gearhead Follow the Black Valley Trail of Death, Into the Beautiful Sunshine. My home page: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html From: Steven Bolt SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Light to Motion (was Robotic Insects) ComposedDate: 12/15/96 08:51:48 AM PostedDate: 12/15/96 08:51:48 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Sat, 14 Dec 1996, Mike O'Connor wrote: > Twenty years latter, it seems like it would be very difficult to build. Did > the author of the article actually have a working model? In 1981 the magazine I work for did a short article, mainly about nitinol and the mechanical solar engine you mention here. I just found the issue in a very dusty corner. We did have a working model; I remember it slowly rotating near a window. It was a static engine, and not powerful enough to do any serious Solarolling. The material used was black polyethylene, from the bags used for packaging photo paper. Foam cups and a wooden stick (6 mm) provided the frame. A series of five photos showed construction and result. I scanned it from the mag and will mail it seperately (a jpeg showing sufficient detail weighs 71K, bit over the top for the list). I have no information regarding which issue of Popular Science (perhaps you mean Popular Mechanics) you refer to, but there is one other interesting snippet: the darn thing was actually patented: 4.075.847, owned by Edward D. Ray. What's in a name, I wonder... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # sbolt@xs4all.nl # Steven Bolt # popular science monthly KIJK # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Tim Heil SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Light to Motion ComposedDate: 12/15/96 12:15:59 PM PostedDate: 12/15/96 12:15:59 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 10:32 PM 12/14/96 -0500, Mike wrote: >-- [ From: Mike O'Connor * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- < snip> >In the seventies, a magazine (Popular Science?) article instructed readers >how to build a purely mechanical solar engine. The actuators were made from >stretched pieces of dark plastic garbage bags. If I remember correctly >stretching the plastic caused the long polymers to line up side by side. >When exposed to sunlight parts of molecules would try to cross link with >their neighbors. This caused the plastic to contract. >Do you have any more information on the piezoceramic photoactuators? Do they >expand or contract when light hits them? How efficient are they? What were >plastic trash bags made out of twenty years ago? How efficient a >photoactuator is it? I believe I still have a copy of the Popular Science article filed away somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post more info about. Scientific American magazine, in the Amateur Scientist column conducted by C. L. Stong, also did several columns on elementary heat engines, including a rubber band engine based on the same principles. I think that there were also some solar-mechanical oscillators, as well. If I remember correctly, the problems with these engines were not so much efficiency but effectiveness. Although solar energy provided the power to make them function, torque was provided by gravity alone. Still, some enterprising BEAMer might know about some recycled super elastic polymer product that could provide useful output. ---------------------------------------------------------------- || Tim Heil || I wouldn't have seen it || || (teach@ezl.com) || if I hadn't believed it. || ----------------------------------------------------------------€ From: "Mark W. Dalton" SendTo: teach@ezl.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Light to Motion ComposedDate: 12/15/96 02:52:03 PM PostedDate: 12/15/96 02:52:03 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US For these mechanical solar-engines you may want to look into pneumatic cylinders, but using something like Freon. One of the Cray hardware engineers said they provide a lot of torque, for just a few drops in a small cylinder, when it warms freon expands, there are probably some other substances that would work as well. However, these devices, must also cool so that it contracts, which is where a lot of the limitation comes in. Which is why I prefer to use solar cells. Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html From: Ivan-Pierre Batinic SendTo: bushbo@xtdl.com CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Muscle wires? ComposedDate: 12/17/96 06:56:59 AM PostedDate: 12/17/96 06:56:59 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Brian O. Bush wrote: > > Hello, > > I was just looking through some of my old stuff, and i ran across a > nintinol wire (Muscle wire) kit. Has anyone tried interfacing this stuff to > BEAM robot Nv nets? If anyone has, please let me know if it is worth doing? > > Brian > > Brian O. Bush, Gearhead > Follow the Black Valley Trail of Death, Into the Beautiful Sunshine. > My home page: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo > BEAM Robotics: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html Hello there: I have finally surfaced as a new subscriber (no longer silently listening). As for the "Muscle Wire" , it takes a considerable amount of current, and still-worser-yet it takes time to react. Both of these equate to too much energy to realize BEAM applications (humble opinion). It is really neat material, but has little published applications (probably due to the low efficiency). I have played with an experimenter's kit, and may be able to forward the info to you if anyone wants it (I have to dig it up). Ivan -- # ________ --------------------------------------------- # # | |__ __ \/ / Ivan-Pierre Batinic +1(408) 383-2487 # # | |__| |__> < LTX Corp./Trillium Div. FAX:+1(408) 433-0255 # # |____| |___/\ \ 3930 N. First St. San Jose CA 95134-1501 USA # From: kmcclary@ford.com (Keith McClary) SendTo: mikeo1@lex.infi.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com,kmcclary@hamjudo.com Subject: Re: Light to Motion (was Robotic Insects) ComposedDate: 12/17/96 07:29:15 AM PostedDate: 12/17/96 07:29:15 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Reply-To: kmcclary@hamjudo.com Mike O'Connor wrote: > In the seventies, a magazine (Popular Science?) article instructed > readers how to build a purely mechanical solar engine. The actuators > were made from stretched pieces of dark plastic garbage bags. > [...] > Has anyone else on the mailing list seen the original mid 70's article? > I think it was in Popular Science because it was the only magazine I > subscribed to at the time. Pop Sci has an index (search engine) at: http://www.popsci.com/index/index.html Unfortunately, it's crude, and I've never gotten it to yield anything before Jan 95. I'd try a general web search, or searching the CD-ROM version of the "Reader's Guides to Periodical Literature". It's somewhat available through the web if you are connected to a subscribing organization (ie a university), or at many modern public libraries. Good luck! - Keith K McClary YAAARC:Ypsi/Ann Arbor Area Robotics Club "Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."-W. von Braun From: Mark Lerman SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: 50F caps ComposedDate: 12/17/96 07:20:12 PM PostedDate: 12/17/96 07:20:12 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, Has anyone obtained a sample of the ELNA America 50F 2.5V capacitor yet? I would like to use them as the power 'supply' for my robots. When they need charging, they could come back to a solar powered charger for refueling. I see they go for $13 each in 1000's. Does that translate to $25-40 in ones? Mark From: "Padraig M O'Cleirigh" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: beam innovations ComposedDate: 12/17/96 08:58:04 PM PostedDate: 12/17/96 08:58:04 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hey, I can see most you are well up on the current advancements in BEAM technology (probobly since you are busy making them). So could anyone tell me whats developing in the under water or flying aspects of BEAM robotics. Any prototypes out there? Any undeveloped, or radical ideas? It seems the main focus is on the technical aspects of land based robotics, so mabye a little hypothetical chat on the seemingly underdeveloped sides of BEAM robotics would get some new 'bots splashing or soaring? Later, -Ciaran From: "Mark W. Dalton" SendTo: pocleiri@uoguelph.ca CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: beam innovations ComposedDate: 12/18/96 07:01:42 AM PostedDate: 12/18/96 07:01:42 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > I can see most you are well up on the current advancements in BEAM > technology (probobly since you are busy making them). So could anyone > tell me whats developing in the under water or flying aspects of BEAM > robotics. Any prototypes out there? Any undeveloped, or radical ideas? It > seems the main focus is on the technical aspects of land based robotics, > so mabye a little hypothetical chat on the seemingly underdeveloped sides > of BEAM robotics would get some new 'bots splashing or soaring? > I have been thinking about this for sometime. It turns out there is a Ornithopter Society on-line and they have a hard copy newsletter, Nathan Chronister is the contact person. Ornithopters are flying through flapping. It turns out they have some sustained flight times of upto 20 minutes. They use RC motors commonly, I have built a rubber band version, but I have not had time to work on the more efficient designs. (I like the idea of flapping because of wings seem safer than propellers, and could be quieter, glide phases, etc.). For swimming, it is much like the problems of the snake. I think the spine would be in valuable for fish or snake like robots. You can use the movement of each segment together to form bends. The problem is the mechanics, and low power consumption. But I would love to see these ideas developed, if you have specific questions I can point to you to a WWW page or write up something explaining how it works in biological systems, to some degree, and my _ideas_ of how to implement them. Good luck! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html From: Joshua Lamorie SendTo: mwd@acl.lanl.gov CopyTo: pocleiri@uoguelph.ca,beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: beam innovations ComposedDate: 12/18/96 07:40:19 AM PostedDate: 12/18/96 07:40:19 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Gidday all, On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Mark W. Dalton wrote: > > Any prototypes out there? Any undeveloped, or radical ideas? It > > seems the main focus is on the technical aspects of land based robotics, > > so mabye a little hypothetical chat on the seemingly underdeveloped sides > > of BEAM robotics would get some new 'bots splashing or soaring? > > > (I like the idea of flapping because of wings seem safer than > propellers, and could be quieter, glide phases, etc.). I have done some preliminary design work on 'robotisizing' a helicopter using 'conventional' (read: CPU intensive) techniques, and it is a sonofabitch. Even if it is as mechanically simple as a glider (control surfaces only) there is SOOOOO much information to be analysed that you need a super powerful computer (well uC) to be able to even maintain stability... let alone path/trajectory planning. I think that the BEAM concept could offer some wonderful possibilities to this arena... because, hell, insects can fly pretty damn well (however, viscosity helps them).. and perhaps the reflex based control may assist... however I am trapped in the conventional paradigm. So have you BEAM gurus thought much about the control aspects of insect flight? My understanding of BEAM (very minimal) is that the control is closely linked to the physical structure, so how would this type of interaction be achieved with a flying robot? My thought is that the Nv (a strange black box to me) to receive simple information about the state of the craft (lets assume a glider for simplicity). Here are a few possibilities: o Perhaps strain guages in the wings, so that when they flex a resistence is changed in proportion to the loads on the craft. Important for making stable turns. o Inclinometer.. pendulum style.. hooked up to a pot. Very noisy information though. Gives information about angle of incidence to a specific axis. Roll & pitch. An accelerometer may be more reliable, but still gives inaccurate information. o Air Speed Indicator... a small propellor connected to a DC motor and then capture the voltage. This will enable the aircraft to stay level-ish, stay at a good speed, and turn correctly.. however it doesn't know how fast it is moving up (or down) or how far it is from the ground. So what is missing is simple solutions for. o Altimeter o Vertical Speed Indicator One of the biggest problems with automatic aircraft control is that the motion of the craft within the medium (air) is not a direct representation of the motion through 'space'. Anyway, I hope that this discussion is within the scope of the list, at least to see what the future might hold, and what challenges have to overcome. thanks for listening JOshua 'lurker' Lamorie From: Michael Gantt SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Anyone building their own caps and other components? ComposedDate: 12/18/96 10:56:26 AM PostedDate: 12/18/96 10:56:26 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US A private aside conversation with someone from this group led to an interesting thought: Are any BEAMers building their own caps or other components? This might be kinda silly given the availability of cheap surplus and recycled stuff, but seems certainly within the scope of the BEAM do-it-yourself innovations manifesto. From: "Paul'SHADOW'Clarke" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: GREETINGS CARD ComposedDate: 12/20/96 01:23:11 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 01:23:11 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Well thanks for the Greetings card....whoever sent it I wish everyone else the same, and hope they don't have to work during the holidays like me (SNIFF!) All the best Paul Clarke p.s. Next time could they pick a web site in ENGLISH!.. :) :) :) :) :) *@***@*@****@ -----------------------------*----*---- *@***@**@***@***@*@ -------------------------*-------------- @****@*****@****@**@*@ -------------------------------*-------- @****@****@***@*****@****@ ----------------------------*------*--- **@**********@***@****@*** ------------------------------*-------- @****@**@******@****@****@ ----------------------------*--------*-- **@******@****@****@***@ ---------------------------------*------ ****@***@******@****@* -------------------------*-----*----- @**@*****@****@@** @***@****@***@ ** SNOWBALL FIGHT!!! ** From: kmcclary@ford.com (Keith McClary) SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: kmcclary@hamjudo.com Subject: Re: A Greetingcard! ComposedDate: 12/20/96 01:24:16 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 01:24:16 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Someone left a greeting card for you today [at a commercial enterprise]. This spam is a new one to me... What's this scam, and how'd it get here? Can the list be set to "accept posts at the repeater input port from subscribers only" to limit this noise? People can still get to the subscription mechanism, but the list output will be cleaner. - Keith K McClary YAAARC:Ypsi/Ann Arbor Area Robotics Club Computers don't spam people, *people* spam people! -Jim, RHF moderator From: kmcclary@ford.com (Keith McClary) SendTo: beam@webconn.com CopyTo: kmcclary@hamjudo.com Subject: PS encoder wheels ComposedDate: 12/20/96 01:24:37 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 01:24:37 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi, all! Does anyone either have a .PS encoder wheel program (or speak enough PS to write a good one) for a Laser Printer and a transparency? I need at least 400 steps/rev. I don't need quadrature, only interruption and an index block for sync (on a separate track - I was trying to avoid using phaselocked loops for finding the sync...) How fine can I go with standard laser printers (and how big will the wheel have to be)? This is for my mazebot's rangefinder which runs unidirectionally. The rest of the rangefinder is made from scrap parts. Very BEAMish... adTHANKSvance - Keith K. McClary YAAARC:Ypsi/Ann Arbor Area Robotics Club "If a robot solves our maze with finesse, should we all sing 'A-Mazing Grace'?" From: Mark Lerman SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: 50 Farad caps ComposedDate: 12/20/96 02:40:33 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 02:40:33 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi all, I've been trying to get some of those new 50 Farad caps. The manufacurer will only sell them in 1000s (@$13/). The distributer doesn't know anything about them but will get back to me after he finds out how much it will cost him to buy 1000 to sell me a few. :-) Anyone have any other sources for these?? Mark Lerman From: Mark Lerman SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: electric pistons ComposedDate: 12/20/96 02:40:53 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 02:40:53 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US I think I remember those nitinol pistons requiring 1 volt at 5 amps to contract. That's a lot of current. Mondotronics does sell them. Mark Lerman At 03:21 PM 12/20/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everybody, > I saw an electric piston a while ago (could have been from >Mondotronics?), has anyone any experience with them or other types of >pistons? How much power do they need? What kind of results can you get >with them? I was thinking of using one to expel the water from a syringe >to power an "aquabot", is this possible? If you have any other ideas on >emptying the syringe I''d be glad to hear them. >Thanx, > - Ciaran > > > From: "John C. Nordlie" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: electric pistons (fwd) ComposedDate: 12/20/96 02:42:12 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 02:42:12 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 15:21:06 Padraig M O'Cleirigh wrote: > I was thinking of using one to expel the water from a syringe > to power an "aquabot", is this possible? If you have any other ideas on > emptying the syringe I''d be glad to hear them. > Thanx, > - Ciaran I'm sure it's possible. For ideas, hey, I've got lots. If they're practicle, now, that's annother story B). Electric motor: jack screw, cam, solinoid. Magneto-hydro-dynamic (aka 'catterpiller drive' from Red October. Japanese have a boat powered by this. Not too fast, but interesting). Pneumatic: compressed air/gas, steam. Hydraulic: pressure from pump, expanding liquid (phase change), compressed gas. Steam pulse jet: put one way valves at front and back of tube. Place heater in tube (or focus lots of sunlight on tube) to boil water. Steam pushes water out exit valve. Pressure drops, water flows in front. Repeat. (this is the same setup coffee makers use to move and heat water) In all the pressure powered schemes, sunlight could be focused by lens or reflectors on a heating vessel. This would provide whatever gas or fluid pressure is needed (probably). I haven't played with any of these ideas, so I don't know if they'd work or not. Good luck! ========================================================================= ==)---------- | ----------(== John Nordlie N0RNB | Regional Weather Information Center nordlie@rwic.und.edu | University of North Dakota 701-777-6112 / 701-777-3016 fax | PO Box 9007, Grand Forks, ND 58202-9007 http://www.aero.und.edu/~nordlie/ | C Program. | "I'm a scientist, I don't C Program Run. | think, I observe!" Run, Dammit, Run! | -- Dr. Clayton Forrester ==)---------- #include ----------(== ========================================================================= From: "Padraig M O'Cleirigh" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: electric pistons ComposedDate: 12/20/96 03:52:18 PM PostedDate: 12/20/96 03:52:18 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hi everybody, I saw an electric piston a while ago (could have been from Mondotronics?), has anyone any experience with them or other types of pistons? How much power do they need? What kind of results can you get with them? I was thinking of using one to expel the water from a syringe to power an "aquabot", is this possible? If you have any other ideas on emptying the syringe I''d be glad to hear them. Thanx, - Ciaran From: Daniel Roganti SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: AquaBots......... Re: electric pistons ComposedDate: 12/21/96 02:28:23 PM PostedDate: 12/21/96 02:28:23 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US At 03:21 PM 12/20/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everybody, > I saw an electric piston a while ago (could have been from >Mondotronics?), has anyone any experience with them or other types of >pistons? How much power do they need? What kind of results can you get >with them? I was thinking of using one to expel the water from a syringe >to power an "aquabot", is this possible? If you have any other ideas on >emptying the syringe I''d be glad to hear them. I would suggest getting one of the electric water guns. The motor may not be efficient (perhaps swap it out) but it utilizes a miniature pump which could alternate as water propulsion (good ol' Newtons Law). I still have some lying around which I hack apart to salvage parts. I'm sure they're still sold in the toys stores. One pump and with a rudder and diving vane actuator would be needed to make it steerable. I would consider adapting the steering solenoids from the cheap RC Cars to actuate the Rudder and Vanes, they only need to be energized a msec (not too much power) to steer the robot and involves less mechanics (no gears). And if you have a big enough Aquarium, it would be nice to experiment in it while watching the reaction of the robot. The bouyancy would have to be slightly positive in order for the robot to float back to the top when power discharges and then recharge but not too much to inhibit the robot's low horsepower to go diving in the aquarium. But don't eat the fishees. :) Hmm, I think I'll go buy an Aquarium now.... eof, Daniel +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ NAME: Daniel Roganti NICK: Ragman EMAIL: ragman@euronet.nl SMAIL: Oud Wulvenlaan 35-2, 3523XS Utrecht, Netherlands, Europe WWW: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ragman Back Home: Margate, Florida Hometown: Elmont, New York .....exploring cyberspace before it runs out of space..... +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ From: IVAN SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: micro motors fo a Airbot ComposedDate: 12/23/96 06:14:36 PM PostedDate: 12/23/96 06:14:36 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Hi everyone > > I have been looking for some Micro motors I found one called the > smoovy 7mm in length any one know were they are sold? > our any micro motors with a very high rpm. From: "Mark W. Dalton" SendTo: ameba@mcleod.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: your mail ComposedDate: 12/24/96 11:41:13 AM PostedDate: 12/24/96 11:41:13 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > > Could some one send me information on Hextile > Beam Robots? I've been looking for info on > these but havn't had much luck. > If you wish to subscribe send e-mail to beam-request.... Also for Hextile information, please read the FAQ's. http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam/FAQ.html The list archive in links to everything are at: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html Thanks! Mark -- Mark Dalton CH3-S-CH2 H H O H SGI/Cray Research | | | \ | Los Alamos,NM 87544 CH2-C-COO //\ ---C--CH2-C-COO C-CH2-C-COO mwd@cray.com | | || || | // | NH3 \\/ \ / CH NH3 O NH3 NH My home page: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/mwd.html BEAM Robotics: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html WWW Cell Bio. course: http://lenti.med.umn.edu/~mwd/cell.html From: Andrew Miller SendTo: jlamorie@schoolnet.ca CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: beam innovations ComposedDate: 12/27/96 06:47:08 AM PostedDate: 12/27/96 06:47:08 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > I think that the BEAM concept could offer some wonderful > possibilities to this arena... because, hell, insects can fly pretty damn > well (however, viscosity helps them).. and perhaps the reflex based > control may assist... however I am trapped in the conventional paradigm. > > So have you BEAM gurus thought much about the control aspects of > insect flight? My understanding of BEAM (very minimal) is that the > control is closely linked to the physical structure, so how would this > type of interaction be achieved with a flying robot? > Nv nets Are Idealy suited to Flying insects.... Problem only really comes in the power to wieght ratio..... Motors and other actuators are getting better though..... > My thought is that the Nv (a strange black box to me) to receive > simple information about the state of the craft (lets assume a glider for > simplicity). Here are a few possibilities: > > o Perhaps strain guages in the wings, > o Inclinometer.. pendulum style.. > > o Air Speed Indicator... I think you havn't quite caught the idea of a Nv net.... At least in the BEAM experiance.... You seem to want to force a lot of information into the net and thats not how they work well... You have to start thingink how the net can recieve info indirectly..... In my opinion that seems to bee the fundimental flaw in computer based controll systems, the designers spend so much efort trying to get SOOOO much info into the brain that it chokes under the weight of it all..... You said so youself in your attemps to Robotize a Helicopter..... The Nv net only needs a subtle "sense" of where it is as opposed to an acurate position down to three decimal places.... > > This will enable the aircraft to stay level-ish, stay at a good > speed, and turn correctly.. however it doesn't know how fast it is moving > up (or down) or how far it is from the ground. So what is missing is > simple solutions for. > o Altimeter > o Vertical Speed Indicator > > One of the biggest problems with automatic aircraft control is > that the motion of the craft within the medium (air) is not a direct > representation of the motion through 'space'. > > I see the problem here as not being one of how to control flight but how to get Accurate flight..... I ask myself "Why...?" Have you ever watched a moth buzz around a light bulb.... It'll wack into the bulb on average of once every 2-3secs.... Now the traditional flight aproach is to build a machine that is smart enought and aware enough not to wack into the bulb... But I think thats trying to build the bird before the moth...... Besides birds still wack into things such as windows regularly.... Now obviously nobody wants there $1000 model helicopter smacking into things just to find out where the are with respect to itself (wich is what the moth is doing)...... So the answer is to think of designs that can "Survive" (funny how that word keeps popping up in BEAM) the impact.... Give it rudimentary sensors, such as the tactile ones used in our photovores, basic optical systems can tell it its too close to the ground and wether its head towards the bulb.... Thusly inacurate fligh is possible.... I think if such a flying Photovore is built it'll suprise most of us with its ability.... I know Tilden has done some of the caculations to show that a solar Butterfly is possible using thick film Lithography type tec but home buiilt designs may yet be in the futre..... I personally would love to build a flying bug.... mabey I will someday....... all4nw From: IVAN SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: micro motors ComposedDate: 12/28/96 03:48:47 PM PostedDate: 12/28/96 03:48:47 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US > Hi All > > I looking for some Micro motors smaller then the typical beeper motor's > The smaller the better for a flying bot. High rpm,low weight,low v > any one know any good sources,companys, That sell stuff like that > I have look every were help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ivan From: David K Anderson SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Random Notes ComposedDate: 12/28/96 05:01:03 PM PostedDate: 12/28/96 05:01:03 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US All I am in the process of updating my web page at the moment, so don't worry if it looks a litle hawire for the next few days. Also, I have a question that woold be good for the FAQ: Is there any info on the Type II solarengine (time interval based), and the Type III solarengine (charge-curve differentiated). Thanks Matt. From: scorpion@cnwl.igs.net SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Starting Robot Enthusiast Needs Help ComposedDate: 12/30/96 10:15:36 AM PostedDate: 12/30/96 10:15:36 AM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Hello, My name is Ewen MacKinnon. I found an article about robots and BEAM in the November/December issue of Equinox. I found it very interesting. I have been interested in robots for a while, but always thought that it would cost A LOT of money to make a good one. When I read about Mark Tilden's Jurassic Park of robots, I became very interested. What I would like is some advice as to how you build these robots, where you can get the parts, etc. I would also like to know if some people could send me some of their designs. My address is: Ewen MacKinnon RR#1 Dalkeith ON K0B 1E0 Thanks in advance, Ewen MacKinnon From: David K Anderson SendTo: scorpion@cnwl.igs.net CopyTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Re: Starting Robot Enthusiast Needs Help ComposedDate: 12/30/96 02:05:26 PM PostedDate: 12/30/96 02:05:26 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Ewen MacKinnon wrote: > > Hello, > > My name is Ewen MacKinnon. I found an article about robots and BEAM in > the November/December issue of Equinox. I found it very interesting. I > have been interested in robots for a while, but always thought that it > would cost A LOT of money to make a good one. > > When I read about Mark Tilden's Jurassic Park of robots, I became very > interested. > > What I would like is some advice as to how you build these robots, where > you can get the parts, etc. I would also like to know if some people > could send me some of their designs. > > My address is: > > Ewen MacKinnon > RR#1 > Dalkeith ON K0B 1E0 > > Thanks in advance, > > Ewen MacKinnon Welcome, There are getting to be more and more BEAM sites on which you can find BEAM robotics info and plans to build your own robot. Here are a few: Solarbotics: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~hrynkiwd/ Beam Resource: http://www.webconn.com/~mwd/beam.html AM Inovations: http://www.golden.net/~amiller/ Brian Bush's BEAM page: http://www2.xtdl.com/~bushbo/beam.html My BEAM page: http://users.uniserve.com/~dkanders/ These sites should have most of the onfo you are looking for. You may also try my set of plans for building your own solarengine at: http://users.uniserve.com/~dkanders/plans.htm You cannot axcess my plans from my main page yet, but you will be able to axcess it along with a whole lot of new stuff when I update my page on the first of January. Matt From: "Hinton, Allen, , WHS/HRSC" SendTo: beam@webconn.com Subject: Newbie alert!!! ComposedDate: 12/31/96 05:49:57 PM PostedDate: 12/31/96 05:49:57 PM DeliveryPriority: N Importance: N ReturnReceipt: 0 $FILE: $UpdatedBy: CN=Beverly Yu/O=DLNOTES/C=US,CN=Laurence Mayer/O=DLNOTES/C=US Alrighty... I thought I knew a little bit about electronics. I must have been wrong! Boy, I thought I would remember more than I do... and now I am starting straight from scratch!?! Oh well... I think it will be much more fun to be a newbie and learn than think I already know only to find out that I don't!?! I just wanted to say thanks for all the great online help and sites! I never thought I'd find this much! Originally saw a report on BEAM robots on discovery channel or some other program and just loved em! Love to hear from any other newbies out there and share ideas with one and all! Thanx a bundle! - Allen