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Dion Dimucci - an interview with the wanderer

By Kingsly Abbott - Record Collector - UK feb 2001

As a soloist, Dion enjoyed a long run of hits, notably "The Wanderer", run-around Sue" and 1968 chart-topper, Abraham, Martin and John". Since the 60s, he consistently made fine albums in a variety of styles, even surviving a tempestuous project with ii Spector in the 70s. The new millennium finds him solidly back on the territory that he knows ,'t, with the issue by Ace records of "Deja Nu" - as good a summary of his new York roots as you could ever find.

Record Collector recently had the opportunity to reminisce about various aspects of Dion's career with the man himself. Aficionados will be pleased note that he answers e phone with a cheery Yo!

Success came early to 'u. How did you cope with it all?

"I Wonder Why" was a al big hit, and it was so much fun. We had our matching jackets, and felt like we were the centre of the universe. It made us feel really special! It gave us an identity our neighbourhoods. we really cool thing as when we walked the streets in the Bronx; people would scream you right out of their windows. The song was on the radio and we'd hear it coming out of all the windows and the apartment buildings. Our attitudes were as big as the apartment buildings! That was so good!

Tell us about the Belmonts. How musically democratic was the group?

Well, we had different musical strengths. I put the group together from guys I knew, even though they didn't really know each other. A songwriter friend had introduced me the Schwartz brothers, who heard me and signed me up. They put e on a couple of tracks that they ready had in the can, I think, tracks with a smooth vocal group the Timberlanes). I never even met those guys! But I knew that I didn't want what they were surrounding me with, so hired my guys. People had talked to me about Freddie Milano. He was a real doo-wop man Angelo D'Aleo had been operatically trained, and I knew Carlo Mastrangelo from the pool room. He was a great drummer! He was into jazz. So, with my more country background, we were musically diverse. I had "I Wonder Why" and an idea of how to put it all together. It clicked, and it raised me to heaven! We cut it in three takes.

Would you have preferred to develop more with the Belmonts, or did you really want to head towards being a soloist?

It was a purposeful split. A couple of the guys wanted to head towards crooning material. It tore me up! The new music was burning me. I was hearing blues stuff by Sonny Boy Williamson and John Lee Hooker. I wanted to rock! They wanted smooth. Laurie Records took them that way, too, but after a little while they were coming back sounding like me.

It's funny, because when I started with them I really rated Carlo's voice. I copied some of his stylings. I used to imitate Carlo the jazz singer (sings some scat lines). But then it ended up with Carlo leading the Belmonts, copying me copying him! Like Vito Picone from the Elegants, I liked to improvise. But I never saw the Belmonts work as an act on their own, and I didn't know who was with them at that time.

Some white Italian-American acts liked to cover all the bases and include things for all the generations.

Yes, but that wasn't for me. I'll tell you what: Connie Francis. I thought it was heartbreaking when she lost it trying to cover the bases!

Then you linked up with the Del Satins for your back-ups. How did it work with them?

I looked for a group, and they were already formed - five guys with a real full sound. I actually had more hits with them than with the Belmonts. The vocal parts we used were unorthodox. They were not run-of-the-mill parts at all. I'd do vocals like a poor man's horn section, from seeing players at places like the Apollo. It was all done by instinct. I had no formal training. I used the Del Satins up to about 1964,1 guess.

You moved from Laurie Records to Columbia. How did they approach you?

They really didn't know what to do with me! I met John Hammond at Columbia. He was the A&R man who brought Dylan to the label, and later Springsteen. Already liking some blues, I was introduced to Robert Johnson and Lightnin' Hopkins. I had a blues conversion! Therefore I became very blues orientated. I made white blues with an attitude, but a lot of what I recorded wasn't released at the time. But some of it did come out a year or two back on "The Road I'm On", the retrospective release (a great double-CD collection on Columbia Legacy 4868232).

Having sung great rock like "Runaround Sue" and "The Wanderer", how happy were you with the poppier direction that Columbia seemed to be pushing you with things like the Goffin/King songs?

My producer Bob Mersey had left. Columbia had him with me to make sure things didn't get too out of hand! Tom Wilson came in and worked with me, but as I said a lot of the stuff wasn't released.

I was on my own trip. I wasn't really too aware of the Beatles Invasion. I was more into listening to Dylan on things like "The Times They Are A-Changin'". Then I heard "Masters Of War"! He brought in thinking, editorials in songs! Some of the blues things I was doing were really sketches, sort of work in progress, but they were interesting and good. (At this point, Dion plays great blues guitar and sings) Do you like that? I love blues in a white way. I wouldn't want to compete with the original guys. But, going back to what was happening, those middle 60s years were watershed years for me. I played some folk houses and intimate rooms. I talked to people properly and it brought me out. I found my voice. Some of my doors had been locked, but I began expressing.

I guess "Abraham, Martin And John" was the culmination of that time, with its nylon strings and finger-picking style.

In your book, The Wanderer, you -described New York at that time as a rat race. Do you still feel that?

I love New York! That time - well, it was my bleakest state of mind. I left in 1967, and I was using a lot and doing a lot of stuff. I've been clean now for over 30 years. But New York, my neighbourhood and my old records are very valuable to me. The questions in those old records were profound. They can still be asked. Just listen to "I Wonder Why"; it's still relevant.

You made an album with Phil Spector in the mid 70s.

The Phil Spector experience was . . . (very long pause) I don't know. Phil - I can't really talk too much about that. It was a bit of a dirge. I left it in his hands. He wanted free rein. Looking back, I think he wasn't where he had been (when he had his big hits) when he recorded that album.

The "Yo Frankie" album from 1989 brought you right back into public view with some really big New York sounds.

There were some good songs on that, but the recording of it . . . we were working very much to Dave Edmunds' timetable on that. He's real talented and it was good to work with him, but it had to be worked round him.

How does the new album "Deja Nu" compare to "Yo Frankie"?

It has different elements to "Yo Frankie". This is more organic, more natural.

How did it come about? It seems to be like a review of your whole career.

Exactly right. I sort of backed into it. There was going to be a movie, based on a screenplay of the book. The songs were written to underpin that. "Makin' My Heart Go Boom" was to accompany the high school dance scene. "Hug My Radiator" was a phrase' I actually used on that 1959 tour with Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper. It was so cold on parts of it, that all I could think about was getting to the motel and wrapping myself around the radiator to try to get warm again. The song "Every Day (That I'm With You)" was also written about that time, and about Buddy. I'll tell you a story: you know the reason why I wasn't on that plane in 1959? They wanted me to go with them, but the fare was $36! It was $36 to get on that plane and make some-thing like a 40-minute flight. That was exactly the amount of my folks' monthly rent. I couldn't spend a whole month's rent on a short plane flight. So I took Buddy's guitar with me to look after, and I stayed on the ground. So there could have been four singers killed that day.

But the new album I'm really pleased with, and with the reaction that it's been getting. It was real big on Amazon.com for the New York and Jersey area. But it seemed that no one wanted to release it in England at first. They all wanted to play it too safe. Bless Trevor Churchill at Ace for all he's done! For the album we used the same techniques as in the 50's and 60s, when you only felt the drums! Jimmy Gallagher from the Legends Of Doo Wop sings back-up on it for me, and their album is recorded in much the same way, I understand. There is a beauty in simplicity.