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Dion Dimucci Information Exchange

(I've used a text copier to transfer these articles- unfortunatly some words get mangled which I then try to untangle - If I've missed any apologies in advance!)..

The Gavin Report THE ARCHITECT of Attitude

the GAVIN REPORT/June 30,I989

during this year's RockN Roll' Hall Of Fame induction Lou Reed posed the now well-documented question, "After all who could be hipper than Dion?" There can only be one answer-nobody!

While only in his teens Dion, backed by his group The Belmonts, doo-woped his way onto the charts with `I Wonder Why" in I958. That kicked - off a succession of massive hits including Runaround Sue" and "The, Wanderer,'/ classics if there ever were any. The British music invasion coupled by a I long running battle with drug dependency proved too much and Dion all but disappeared from the pop music scene in the mid-sixties, re-emerging briefly in ' I968 to express the nation's innermost feelings on "Abraham, Martin -and john".A song that's become synonymous with the commemoration of JFK- and Martin Luther King Jr. Always a blues and folk enthusiast (today Dions a big John Hiatt fan), Dion parlayed that enthusiasm into a mellow folkish troupadouring career on Warners, which included the ultra-honest "Your Own Backyard'.yand the ' haunting "Sanctuary." Shortly after that success, he ended years of drug and alcohol abuse, and took his music down a religious path singing and performing gospel developing quite a following in the world of Christian music.

its hard to believe that today the man who once boasted 'I'm the type of guy of who will never settle down" has been happily married for 26 years and has three daughters. Dion's recent visit to' the Gavin offices kept the entire staff buzzing for days before and after. Relaxed, at peace, and happy to be rockin' again, he talked about the good old days and his newest accomplishment "Yo Frankie," an album that brings the past and present together, never bowing to a nostalgic - ~I 'spirit.

DAVE SHOLIN: I was fascinated by the fact that Hank Williams was your first musical inspiration.

DION: The first time I heard Hank Williams he was singing "Honky Tonk Blues- on the radio. I heard this guy just tearing into the words, gripping them like pliers and ripping them open. I had never heard anything like that so I went up to Fordharn Road where there was this record store called "Cousins." I must have been eleven years old and said, 'you gotta find this record." I didn't even know what "Honky Tonk" meant. By the time I was thirteen I had a collection of about I25 Hank Williams 78s and I knew about two hundred songs. I really got caught up in it whoosh! It was early rock 'n roll to me. Hank Williams and all the Black music I started listening to was like my music-Black music filtered through an Italian neighbourhood that comes out with an attitude. Thats what it is.

D S: Was there a time when you decided, -I'm going to be singer?"

DION: What happened is that I learned how to sing "Honky Tonk Blues 'and I'd sit out on the stoops on those hot August nights when the fire hydrants were coolin' everybody off, spraying the streets and the guys would gather I round me saying' sing that again!" I knew at a very early age that I could take people on a trip and when I was in the middle of a song I just felt kind of special. It was like a gift-it just feels good when you're doing it. People were enjoying it and I LOVED doing it.

KENT ZIMMERNIAN: ... it had an addicting feeling?

DION: It's like at that age you're looking for who you are, what you are, where you're going, why you're here and all of a sudden you're connected and you feel a part of things-you're sharing yourself with people and it's connecting. It's just a good feeling.

DS: What was it about the early doo-wop sound and why was it so prevalent in New York City?

DION: It was like home made music-street-corner-you didn't need $40,000 worth of equipment to start a group. It started out with the Black guys. I used to hang out backstage at the Apollo Theatre, copying riffs from The Cadillacs, The Harptones, The Cleftones. They'd come out talking and singing, I'd be listening,-- Hey, how`d you do that?" It was like home made music. You'd bang on card. board boxes and beer bottles and you made music. It's not like today. Contrary to what people think, there wasn't a group on every corner. In fact, we (The Belmonts) were the only group I knew for miles.

DS: A lot of your songs, were about girls "Runaround Sue," "The Prima Donna,' "Ruby Baby, "Little Diane," "Sandy." Are these just names that rhymed or were the women you knew?

DION: Hey listen, if you can write a song about a girls name, at least you knew you'd sell. How many girls are named Diane? You got sales already! I know that for a fact!

DS: How did the decision to leave Th, BeImonts and go solo come about?

DION: There was a guy at our company named Alan Sussel who called Laurie Records. He was a "man's man"-he was like a father to me-I really loved the guy. His favorite song was 'Where Or When," so l cooked an arrangement. We worked hard at it. The thought was there to just do it for him, but it was out of our backyard, totally. But we did it for him. Well, after we did that, the Belmonts started saying, "We want to do every song like that, we want to be legitimate, get the tuxedos..." and it was a battle. So we did a whole album called WISH UPON A STAR of all these standards. One day-The Belmonts were standing on the side of me singing and I just freaked. I said,---This is not for me!" So' Where Or When" ended up being our swan song. I said, I can't do this' I went back to my guitar. That's when I put out `The Wanderer" and "Runaround Sue." They wanted to be the Four Aces. I said, "Go ahead." I couldn't take it.

DS: Did you know from the very first take that--- the Wanderer" was going to be a classic?

DION: I did a song on this new album called, "King Of The New York Streets." When I started that song I knew that something happened in there and I just felt it. It's like I'm singing it, enjoying it and saying, "Oooh, this feels GREAT '. I felt that "King Of The New York Streets" is as special as--- TheWanderer." From beginning to end it was one take.

KZ: "King Of The New York Streets" was one take?

DION: Yes, it really felt good to me. And to answer your question, I knew- -The Wanderer" was special when I was doing it, but how could I know after thirty years that people like Bruce Springsteen would come up to me and ask, "Who played drums on that?" or "Who's playing sax?"- --How did the drummer do that?" 'Is he hitting the high hat from underneath?" Panama Francis played on that song~ he had a jazz group in the' 40s- he was the drummer. All I knew was that it felt good, I didn't know people were going to be asking me questions about it years later. I love singing about strong characters. You throw away all your doubts and you just hit it. It's so strong, it's just so focused and it's so much the attitude of the neighbourhood I grew up in. The KID is HERE! Like, whoa! These songs are great to get behind. They're fun to sing. I like singing about characters like "Runaround Sue or "Yo Frankie." It's a very proud place to come from.

KZ: Sounds like you found out who you are very early on---

DION: When I'm in the middle of a song that I love, I know exactly who I am.

KZ: ... amidst all the applause, the girls, the cars, the money...

DION: That has nothing to do with it...

KZ:--- no, but is it hard to keep it together with all those forces coming at you?

DION: Not now, but maybe when I was a kid. When you're a kid you get distracted. When people start treating you like you're something special, you start believing it and sometimes you think you can do no wrong. You can get very self-centred. Now I'm in music because I love it. My peace of mind doesn't depend on a hit record. I think if your identity is tied to a career, if your career goes-then you're gone. My identity's not tied up in my self-worth. Today it's just something I do. I know who I am. I'm privileged to do something I love and use the gifts God gave me to be of service to people. But there was a time when my pride and I were insecure. Boy, I went off on a tangent and I got kind of lost back then-it hurts to do it that way because then you get isolated from people, from yourself and God-it's boring. It's better the second time around.

KZ: "King of The New York Streets" epitomises all that. It's a strong statement.

DION: It's something we all go through when we're sixteen and full of ourselves. The whole world revolves around us and we're the centre of the universe.

KZ: So what was it like when rock'n'roll was just being invented?

DION: When we started it was like the dawn of creation. It's hard for second and third generation rock 'n rollers to understand the times when there were no rules, no expectations. There was nothing-not to mention luxury tour buses and monitors-you weren't in charge of your own destiny. People didn't know you produced your own music. At that time we were breaking a show business tradition; I know this today but I didn't really understand it then. There was a show business tradition that existed. It was kind of like a Hollywood set-you put up the front, but there's nothing behind it. You made a song that's was you-so they think they know you because you have a hit song, but they don't really know you. When you took a picture, you put the cigarette down and smiled at the camera. Rock'n rollers-the second and third generations -bought the illusion of the rebellion proclaiming of your individual freedom saying, "Hey, this is me-I'm travelling around the country, I'm gonna kick ass and man, I'm secure and I'm The Wanderer!... And they went, "Yeah, that's the way I feel..." and they bought it! So little by little the tradition even affected The Beatles. I think it even affected the Rolling Stones a lot; I know it affected Presley. Elvis Presley was the "King Of RockNRoll," I know it you know it but he didn't know it. If he knew it, he would have gone to Woodstock and had some fun with The Rolling Stones- he would have sung lead up in Woodstock. He 'would be here today with guys like Springsteen, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, Little Steven and John Hiatt- all these people!

KZ....Lou Reed...

DION: Yes, Lou Reed definitely. What's happening now is that music got this kind of community and caring, not this' competition thing or this show business and self-centred thing. Musicians talk, get honest with themselves, cut, away the fat. It's healthy when you support each other. We started. out with the music get angry. Rock 'n Roll's a REBELLIOUS music. It starts out with a lot of anger, but if you' work through that, you come out much more powerful in the end because in the beginning you think the power is just in the amplifiers and it's really not. When you work through that, then you really come into the power and you can really understand that it's an international communications tool. You get out there. You can communicate. It helps you feel and think and keeps you aware, lift your spirit, keeps you young-it does for me

KZ: You've really witnessed some change over the past thirty years.

DION: What I'm saying is that when we started we thought it was just music for very young innocent kids because we had nothing to go on. Now we realise you could be an old fart at nineteen and you can kick ass at sixty-three because it's an attitude. Rock 'n roll is attitude, not an age! It's something very real When I was standing up there at the Hall of Fame and they were honouring me, I was looking out at all the people. All these artists that have kept me young the past three decades Man, I was saying,-- thank YOU! You've fill me, you've made my life very rich, you' filled my spirit!" I've always been a die-hard from the early days and I never drifted off into TonyBennett or Robert Coulet, I just couldn't..

KZ: ... even though that was the way when you talk about legitimising yourself.

DION: Yes, in the beginning we played with lot of jazz musicians and a lot of them used to hate us. It was very insecure because here you are making hit records --- everybody LOVes it- but the musicians that are playing for you can't stand doing these shows at the AI Freed Theatre. "Who are you out there standing in the light, singing this bullshit? We're back here, getting paid ten dollars to play behind YOU?!?"

KZ: That's a lot to take.

DION: It was hard for them, it was hard for us. and there was no communication, no maturity. The guys didn't come up to us and say, "Hey listen..." There was no way to communicate. They were probably as immature as we were and they were older than us ` Today musicians encourage you, they support you. I feel it's much better because they're real. It's not a Hollywood set to them. Today you get people that are the same off as they're on. It's like there's no front.

DS: You joked at the Rock 'N Roll Hall Of Fame dinner about making a total of $I4,000 off "The Wanderer," while today stars are making millions. Do you ever look back and ask, "Ceez, I was a star, but where was the cash?"

DION: Yes, but it's never really affected me to the point where it turned me bitter. I don't really have any real. horror stories. I don't want to sound like a` fool, but I got into this business because of the music. I wanted to get close to the music- I wasn't thinking of money. So I've always kept that focus, it's always been a very sacred thing to me. I've raised three daughters, I've always eaten, I've never gone hungry, I've always been able to express myself, I've been really blessed. Man, companies always pick me up,, I've always made albums- I am so grateful that I have a chance with this new one because I was thinking, "Well, here I've got a shot - I'm gonna get up at bat ' I'm gonna relax and I'm gonna take a good cut at that ball and we'll see what happens." In other words, I saw these jazz musicians lose focus. I saw people die from resentment just from getting caught in some kind of trap. I've always looked for solutions on how to work through a lot of these trappings. I've known lot of very talented people just die of bitterness and isolation, blaming everybody . I got hooked on finding solutions and working through it. But I'm very aware of the business side of things, especially today because I've learned a little about it.

PS: You have some strong feelings about groups such as Sha-Na-Na who make fun of the early music.

DION: When somebody approaches the music that I grew up with like they do, it's an insult. I'm not stupid, I wasn't then and I'm not now and I love this music. It just fills my heart with richness that I belonged and was a part of it. To this day, I can get with my friends, strike up a harmony and we have so much fun. We could doo-wop all night long!

KZ: 'You once wrote a song called `Your Own Backyard" that deals with drugs.

DION: I abused drugs in the '60s and it got me nowhere. A lot of people thought that drugs made me creative, but they didn't- they kill you. I've seen it. That's not where creativeness comes from. It comes from life, it comes from your spirit, it doesn't come from drugs. I've NEVER seen people shoot "up" or "get high." I've seen them shoot "down"- seen them GO DOWN, so it's like propaganda. I'm talking about people who abuse. "Drink up, cheers!" No, its always down, it's never up and I've seen it time and time again. I didn't like what was happening to me, I looked up to heaven one night and said, "God, help me," and I changed. I didn't have to run buy no bag anymore. "Your Own Backyard," was a small way of sharing my experience, strength and hope and not preaching to everybody, just talking about what I found.

KZ: Why did you abandon Pop music for Christian music?

DION: I'm still, in a sense, that kid on the stoop that just likes to express himself. Music gives me an opportunity to share my feelings. Early on, in my house, emotions were forbidden. My parents were frightened of feelings. With music I could express myself and not threaten anybody. In fact, they'd ask me to sing it again. I love my old records, "The Wanderer," "Runaround Sue,"-they become more valuable to me every year. I don't like doing them in the context of a lot of these tours. Sha Na- Na has a show in Atlantic City where they hire Ben E. King and Del Shannon, the Shirelles- I can't take that. I can't take doing medleys of old songs. Maybe I'm too serious, but those songs are sacred. I don't want to destroy them for me or for anybody else. That's the way I feel.

DS: So, like Rick Nelson was saying in "Garden Party," you've got to please yourself and just can't do all the oldies all the time.

DION: In stores they might put my records in a different rack, "OK, put him in the Gospel rack, put him in the Oldies rack, now put him over here," but to me, it's ME. I sing about what's inside me. In the '80s I made five Gospel albums and one of them was nominated for a Grammy. All I was doing was expressing spiritual principles. I was raising three daughters and it was something that was relevant to me at the time and I wanted to sing about it. About two years ago, they asked me to do a concert at Radio City Music Hall and they gave me the whole night. I said, "I'm going to do all my records. " I went up there and I sang all MY songs. It was a wonderful night. It was a very healing thing for me because I've always been protective of those songs. I can't even explain it, but it was almost like I connected that night-what I did in the past- all those hit records, all the Gospel albums. My faith was being expressed through music. I said, "Hey, I'm OK," it was like it came together that night. I'm grateful that I can do another album. It's fun to keep expressing yourself in music.

DS: How did you decide on Daye Edmunds? What was the chemistry like between you two?

DION: We met in L.A. and I ran twelve songs by him. I brought a little drum machine with me and I sang them all. He liked "King Of The New York Streets," "And The Night Stood Still," -Yo Frankie,"-he liked all of them actually and we went for it- he cut two out, I just told him I wanted to make a rock 'n roll album. It's a little polished, but I'm happy with it because I like the songs and had a ball doing it.

DS: What inspired "Written On The Subway Walls?" I ve read you spent some time singing in subways.

DION: Paul Simon once wrote, "...and the words of the prophet are written on the subway wall ... the sounds of silence." It's a very proud song of being raised in New York with the people, the culture. the love and the community that I grew up in. These are memories you claim and you're proud of them. You sing with a lot of pride. But you can't go back that's what that song's about. It's about all those memories that are underneath the posters and the graffiti. DS. How did you hit upon "Little Star?"

DION: That just came out naturally. One day we were in the middle of it and Paul Simon asked to be on it. What's interesting is that he's very well- versed in doo-wop. So he sang "Little Star," and not only did he sing "Little Star," he did all the vocals under his lead. Listen to the group! He's singing all the vocals.

DS: "Drive All Night" was cut with Bryan Adams?

DION: Bryan Adams is a great kid to work with. He's intense and hardworking. I learned a lot from him.

DS: Its a great line, "...with the windows down and the radio on..."

DION: I love the urgency. It's a song where this guy realises he was on an ego trip. Now he's come to his senses and he's coming back. I like those kinds of songs. To me, you could sing those songs at any age because we all make those mistakes. I made one last week. (laughs)

DS: What's the biggest single change you've seen on radio or in music over the past thirty years?

DION: The BIGGEST change is the equipment. It's changing right and left. The real change is the synthesiser, the emulator, drum machines-but basically, rock 'n roll to me is a back-beat with a good bass line. That's the heart and soul of a record. Everything else is window trimming. We used to run around the studio banging on ashtrays and Coke bottles and venetian blinds. I did "Runaround Sue with these big timpani drums with canvas on them, just to get a thud! I always liked a fresh expression, the real, individual expression of music, like what John Hiatt does today. You can't emulate or simulate spirit and a person's individual expression. Heart and soul is something real and I love that.

DS: You have three daughters. What do you hear around the house?

DION: I hear, 'dad, you got any money, you got twenty dollars?" Aside from that, my oldest daughter likes Phil. Collins --- she wants, to be a teacher-she likes Peter Gabriel, Steve Winwood, that's her bag. Then the middle one likes Barbra Streisand and Madonna and she's, into Broadway shows. The fifteen year old',, Forget about it! She plays The Replacements Guns N' Roses and thinks Paul McCartney ! someone who made a video with Michael Jackson. She's into all the hardcore stuff. My wife's into Lou Reed.

DS: Do you remember what you felt whet you first heard "Abraham, Martin and John7 v DION: Originally, "Abraham, Martin am John" was a shuffle. The first time I heard it, I didn't like it and I got turned off by it because it sounded like an opportunist kind of song Then after I played it again I started to think "Man, this is about four guys who had dream of a state of love that does exist and they were working toward making it real... Martin Luther King laid down his life. May be he died, but it's for us to pick up on the dream and carry it further. The dream doesn't die. started hearing the song differently. I change it from a shuffle to an acoustic song using the language of the heart, as if I was talking to someone just across the table saying, 'you know, the good might die young, but we can carry this on, we can pick up the dream, we can carry it further because these guys were an inspiration." And when I did that song it was amazing because I got letters from all over the country from college kids. Thousands an thousands of letters! I never got letters from college kids and they were saying, "Thank you." It was like in a bad situation-there was a solution. So that's a special song to me.

KZ: Will this then be your most focused, personally focused, record?

DION: I don't know. I could take songs from my past that were very focused, but I think that this is an album that proclaims my individual freedom and homecoming, not only my roots, not only to a state of mind that's free, and drug-free, not only just working through all that and coming into a place where rock roll is a part of you. That's why I wanted to end the album with "Serenade." It says I've come home and I think that encompasses it all. I just. feel very blessed right now-grateful that I'm still enjoying music and people are encouraging me. They are just receiving it and it fell better now than it did then. It's really better the second time around.

June 30,I989IIhe GAVIN REPORT