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(9-24-2000)
(posted at sulekha.com - various contributors):
Man can only worship Saguna Brahman
Worship involves one entity being devoted to another. This is dwaita. The moment we think that we are worshipping God, we are actually worshipping a form, a concept, an idea, an imagined something - all these fall under Saguna Brahman. The worshipper is still under the influence of Maya as he/she is using his/her bodily tools for the worship. In any religion, nirguna Brahman is not possible to describe and to visualize, although we may intellectualize it.
When it comes to bhakti, people of all religions worship only Saguna Brahman. Christians, Jews and Muslims who are vehemently opposed to worshipping idols, don’t realize that they, in fact, also worship Saguna Brahman the moment they emotionally connect to what they imagine in their mind as God.
In Sanathana dharma, numerous avenues are created for devotion of Saguna Brahman with an intention of finding a way to open the door towards Nirguna Brahman (this is a probability). This is why we are told that there are numerous paths to salvation, that there is unity in diversity and that everything is Brahman worthy of worship. If you realize Nirguna Brahman, you are Brahman - there is none other than yourself, no duality, no world, no God, no worship! Religion itself becomes obsolete and an obstruction for you!
In Mahabharat, Krishna showing his virat-purusha form is nothing but showing Saguna Brahman. Those that are attached to the world of Maya and operate with her influence, won’t see Brahman in virat-Purusha (virat-Purusha is all around us but we don’t comprehend it to be Brahman, we see and interact with it as time, space, names and forms).
sankara has a famous composition in which he prays to Malaya admiring her immense power but begging her to lift that power and to open the door to mukti. Our tradition asks us to look at the world in the same fashion. There are two powerful metaphors describing what Sankara was saying: 1) annapurnadevi giving food to Shiva (who comes to her as a beggar) - she sustains him in the Saguna form, and 2) kali with the chopped head of Shiva in her hand - destroying the last influence of Maya to remove the Saguna aspect and to reveal Nirguna Brahman. Creation as well as destruction of the Saguna aspect of Brahman are in her hand. Knowing this, Sankara says, I am devoted to you, but I come to you as a beggar asking you only to remove the Saguna aspect, not to create it! He is saying, I have seen the virst-Purusha - saguna-Brahman, but please give me mukti even from this so that I may see Brahman.
Therefore, in Hindu tradition, worship is not an end in itself. It is a tool that MAY open the door to inner awakening and realization of Brahman (brahmasakshatkara through bhagavat krupa).
Recently, there was a discussion on pooja on the CH. If the pooja is for earthy things, then we shouldn’t blame God for keeping us under the influence of Maya because we are the ones who are actually asking to be under the power of Maya.
In sanathana Dharma, numerous avenues are created for devotion of Saguna Brahman with an intention of finding a way to open the door towards Nirguna Brahman (this is a probability). This is why we are told that there are numerous paths to salvation, that there is unity in diversity and that everything is Brahman worthy of worship.
If you realize Nirguna Brahman, you are Brahman - there is none other than yourself, no duality, no world, no God, no worship!
I am a bit confused here. Perhaps I have been subscribing to advaita, but nevertheless, I would like to understand the difference. Do you mean that once you realize Nirguna Brahman, you become part of the universal (for lack of better word) oneness? I have understood all along that we are all particles of the whole which you could call 'Brahman' if you like...hence the verse of the vedas, Ishwara parama krishna satchindananda vigraha anadir aadir govinda sarva karana karanam ...that 'Sri Krishna is the primary cause of all causes...' . I am having difficulty comprehending there is 'no God' once nirgun Brahman is realized as stated above..
Recently, there was a discussion on Pooja on the CH. If the pooja is for earthy things, then we shouldn’t blame God for keeping us under the influence of Maya because we are the ones who are actually asking to be under the power of Malaya.
I wonder if 'praying for others' is also considered to be under the influence of Maya, guess the answer would be yes. I always consider that God knows everything, hence why ask for anything? So would you concede that we should strive to alleviate all bondage of karma by asking the Lord (and Malaya) to release us? Yet, we would be asking for something again!
Or would you agree that we should be like meera and kabir dasa?
(What an excellent post!!!)
If you realize Nirguna Brahman, you are Brahman - there is none other than yourself, no duality, no world, no God, no worship!
You are on the right track. Perhaps "realize" isn't an adequate word to use in my post. I was saying that for Brahman, there is no world, no attributes, no time, etc., therefore, when you become one, these would be true of you as well. In our bhava, when we worship God, we are not experiencing Nirguna Brahman since we don't know how to visualize such a Brahman. My main idea here is that the God we all worship (in any religion including militant monotheistic ones) is Saguna Brahman. In our tradition, we made the worship much more elaborate and all-embracing to the extent that when we observe a worldly thing, we are supposed to visualize Brahman and not the apparent separateness of it.
I wonder if 'praying for others' is also considered to be under the influence of Maya, guess the answer would be yes.
Prayers for others are like a yagna - you are asking for others, not for yourself. Prayers for others are like motherly love, like the love of mother Theresa towards the destitute. Therefore, such prayers help diminish ego and elevate us spiritually.
I always consider that God knows everything, hence why ask for anything?
So would you concede that we should strive to alleviate all bondage of karma by asking the Lord (and Maya) to release us? Yet, we would be asking for something again!
Good point! Here the sadhak is asking in a way that it doesn't increase his/her vasanas. By praying in this fashion, he/she is feeling that he is not making that decision, he is depending on Bhagavat krupa, God's grace. Why? If he thinks he is going to discover on his own (although this is true!), he is operating from a position of ego. Sankara is showing one way of dissolving ego (which is needed to become part of the universal).
Or would you agree that we should be like Meera and Kabir dasa?
Meera (and Kabir) saw the world as Saguna Brahman. She submitted herself to that universal self. Therefore, her prayers and actions are at a much higher level. They are like what Sankara was asking.
To become a true advaitin and Identify one self with Brahman is very difficult for most of us.( at least for me- Though I am trying)Miami Syndrome is much stronger(Maya) Me--I am --Mine.
To get rid of the feeling I am the doer.I am the one giving again needs his help.Meditation may help at this point.I do not know.
We can't attain mukti by our wish. The moment we wish, we dwell in dwaita, close the door to mukti and take a step backwards. The secret is in learning to dissolve the self while contemplating on Brahman (ananyabhakti can do this). Gradually, our visualization of Brahman will change and if and when we have brahmasakshatkara, it would only be through Bhagavat krupa as we would have dissolved our ego by then.
Please read section 14 in chapter 3 of chandogya. You will find helpful hints on how to dissolve the dwaita mode while meditating upon Brahman. As you recognized already, this is immensely difficult. sivananda wrote a commentary on this section. Perhaps you can find his material on the web.
Self Alone Is Dear..I is a part and piece of Brahma
-Sivananda
You love your wife and children in and through the Atma (or Brahman) that is hidden inside the body. If you had really loved the physical body alone, you ought to love the dead body also that is in a cadaveric, rigid state with ensuing decomposition. But on the contrary you try to get rid of dead body as soon as possible.
When the house is on fire you try to save yourself first and ignore the property, wife, and others. This clearly shows that you love to a very high degree something which is hidden within your physical body. That something is dearer to you than anything else in the world. That something is Atma or Brahman or Self of everyone, the one common consciousness, the adhishthana or substratum for all, for everything, for the whole world.
15. There are five indriyas (organs that grasp) and five vishayas (objects). Eye can see forms. Forms are made up of agni-tattwa (fire principle). Eyes are also formed out of fire tanmatra. So there is a relationship between eye and form. Eyes cannot hear sounds. Ear is made up of shabda-tanmatra (sound element). Sound emanates from akasa (ether). There is a relationship between ear and sound. Ear cannot see. All the five senses are insentient or non-intelligent. They borrow their light and power from Atma or pure Spirit which is at the back of these senses just as a cup of water, when exposed to the sun, borrows the heat from the sun.
Atma in conjunction with eye indriya and objects gives rise to perception of the world. The whole world is nothing but Atma or Brahman. Atma only can see Atma. Atma sees Atma. There can be relationship between Atman inside and Atman outside. A piece of stone is only Atman or Brahman. Brahman appears as stone through mind and physical lens. In Reality the whole world is nothing but Brahman (sarvam khalvidam Brahma). There cannot be any connection between Atma and anatma (Self and non-Self).
16. In sleep there are no senses, no objects, no mind apparent and yet you experience peace and bliss. When there are no objects, wherefrom have you derived the bliss? The mind rests in Brahman during sleep and it is from Brahman this bliss is derived. Further during sleep when there are no other persons "I" alone exists.
: 1. Sarvam khalvidam brahma, tajjalaniti santa upasita, atha khalu kratumayah puruso yatha-kratur-asmin-loke puruso bhavati, tathetah pretya bhavati, sa kratum kurvita.
This is a very famous passage in the upanishad. This is how we have to meditate, calmly, quietly and peacefully, We have to meditate that everything comes from That, everything is sustained in That and everything returns to That. That which is the origination, the sustenance and the dissolution of all things is this Brahman. Inasmuch as it is the cause of all things, naturally, every effect in the form of this creation is contained there. We too are effects of creation. So we too are contained in it. There is a great justification in the assertion that everything is the Supreme Being. Logically and naturally, when the effects are all contained in the cause.
This is known as sandilya vidya.This from the web site mentioned earlier.Lot of useful information available from this website.Any one with charitable inclinations can give some money to their leprosy ashram.I used to work one day in a week in 1970.All the money is spent honestly without any administrative expenses.
See also:
Website Feedback - Page 50
Separation and Moksha - Page 17
Experiencing Pure
Consciousness - Page 19
Does The Divine
Need Saving? - Page 26
Queen of the
South & The Queen of Heaven - Page 27
Being & non-Being
emanate from His little finger - Page 40
The Foolish
Virgins - Page 41
satsang -
Page 45
Rapture - Page 46
A Moth to the Flame - Page 47
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