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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
(11-24-99)
Om: my latest web page .... Hitler and Socrates - Page 209 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/3425/page209.htm ... about the internet poll survey for Person of the Century, and possibility that Hitler might win
Om: it is simply reflections on topics which interest me.. and which are also of interest to Rabbi's.... the basic relationship of Good and Evil....
Om: I didnt really care to embark on some appeal to internet voters.. who ultimately wins the poll is immaterial to me....
Om: Was anyone here ever a big fan of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood , a program for children on PBS Television?
shadowdancer: used to watch it with my neice Om...why?
Om: visit this URL and read the letter of praise that I wrote to Mr. Rogers last week. It is rather spiritual in nature. http://hometown.aol.com/Sitaram/mrrogers.htm
Om: and he sent me a personal reply yesterday
shadowdancer: cool Om
Om: and visit THIS url to read biography of Mr. Rogers http://www.fitzroydearborn.com/rodgers1.htm
Om: the thanksgiving dinner fowl was first introduced to British tables in the 1500's, and is a native to Mexico. The merchants who imported the turkey fowls to England happened to be Turkish, hence the assumption that the fowl was from TURKEY, and hence the misnomer
Moment_Is_Now: interesting OM
Om: Many other countries and languages call the thanksgiving fowl a Hindi bird or Indian bird, since they confused the West Indies (which is close to Mexico), with India,
Om: 60 years after the introduction of the turkey to england, the bird was well known enough for Shakespeare to mention the turkey-cock in one of his plays
Om: the Shakespeare play was Twelth Night, Act 4, Scene 5, FABIAN: O, peace! Contemplation makes a rare turkey-cock of him; how he jets under his advanced plumes! (said of Malvolio)...
Om: my latest web page .... Hitler and Socrates - Page 209 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/3425/page209.htm ... about the internet poll survey for Person of the Century, and possibility that Hitler might win
Mr_Brad: do you believe in values and morals?
Julia: values and morals... yes I do
Mr_Brad: they are intimatly tied to religon
Cisco_Kid: I have my own moral code.
Sunshine: just had a class on ethics
Cisco_Kid: Yes, I donīt like to follow established rules.
Mr_Brad: I would be willing to bet that your values are related to religon
Sunshine: has only one golden rule
Om: Epictetus, in his Moral Discourses, wrote... when your son goes on a long journey... you pray to Jupiter that he will return safely,... why not instead pray for the EQUANIMITY to accept any outcome whether fortunate or tragic?
Mr_Brad: religon espouses values that are conducive to a healty lifestyle
Cisco_Kid: Not exactly.
Cisco_Kid: Not all religions.
Mr_Brad: shure they do
Om: I can tell you something very interesting about the question of teaching morality.....
Mr_Brad: religons purpose is to allow for us to live better lives
Cisco_Kid: religion in itself is not bad, itīs the people who are in them that can be bad.
Om: I met an old man in his 80's last year.... born in italy, raised in brooklyn... roman catholic.. but... rarely goes to church.. and of course.. doesnt know a whole lot about the bible or roman catholic doctrines or beliefs
Julia: But what if I am living my life in the right way... but not the religious way
Mr_Brad: well, I am saying their 'purpose', which is sometimes deviant from the reality of it
Sunshine: It is my opinion that there is a difference between religion and spirituality
Om: I asked this old man a bunch of questions.... and found out his life story... and it teaches something very interesting about this question of teaching morality
Julia: yeah chispocof! I totally agree
Cisco_Kid: I see the bible as a source of mithology and thats it.
Julia: exactly~
Om: he explained that he married a woman when he was 20, they raised 3 children.. she died at age 50... they had 30 years of marriage
Mr_Brad: the bible is alot deeper than most will admit
Cisco_Kid: What do you believe in julia?
Julia: nothing
Om: I asked him if he ever thought about dating or remarriage... he said...No... I experienced everything possible with her.. we raised 3 children... I dont want anyone else......
Cisco_Kid: The bible is a bunch of stories.
Julia: yep
Mr_Brad: religions are infact based on values with are conducive to a righteous lifestyle
Om: so... I asked him a bunch of other interesting questions...
Julia: a bunch of stories made up to explain things that people couldn't understand
Om: and he told me, for example.. that he never takes a drink... only some wine at a wedding.....people give him bottles of whiskey at christmas.. and they remain unopened...
Om: I asked him questions to find out if he ever had lots of thoughts or fantasies or desires about women at any time in his life... but it was obvious that he never had... the one wife and family was enough
Mr_Brad: yes, the proverbs are explanations of the way things are, in a simplistic yet metaphoric context
Om: more questions revealed, he never gambled or bought lottery ticket,... never held a grudge... never in a fist fight... never in a war or armed services
Mr_Brad: you must realize that the works in religious text are mostly metaphores and allegorys
Om: so.. what am I getting at with this story?
Om: simply that here was someone who was naturally moral by nature... not by upbringing....
Julia: I like that story!
Mr_Brad: being imoral is just a part of living
Om: contrast that old man.. who knew and cared nothing about the church or religion he was raised in... except he acknowledged that he believes there is a God.. but.. he doesnt even actively pray...or things like that... though he goes to church once per month (rom catholic)
Om: compare him with some television preacher.. who IMMERSES himself in moral theology, till it comes out his ears.. but then gets caught with a hooker peeing on his face...(for example)
Mr_Brad: yeah yeah yeah.....
Om: my point is that there are people who are naturally moral or naturally dispassionate... and then there are people who are SATURATED in moral ethical teachings... and yet lead these secret , twisted fantasy lives
Om: so.. I will tell you what.... I dont think explicit moral instruction... posting the TEN COMMANDMENTS on school walls is so much the answer.... I will TELL YOU WHAT the answer is...
Om: and you will laugh at this.... the answer is television shows like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.... and why do I say this?
Om: for the simple reason that.... it is when kids are very small and growing up that they need to see EXAMPLES of calmness, gentleness (as apposed to lust anger violence...)
Om: and even if children grow up seeing those calming gentle examples.... some will BY NATURE be violent, sadistic, addictive personalities.... and others BY NATURE will be gentle, abstinate, calm, self-controlled
Om: but nailing up commandments on the walls and moralizing wont do a particle of good... by the time they learn how to read... their personalities have already formed,.. and it is too late...
Om: meeting that old italian man was a real eye opener...
Om: I asked him if he ever went to church and he said... oh, maybe once a month....
Om: so I said..well, now that you are in your 80's.... perhaps it would be good to go more frequently, and sometimes go to confession and communion... and he just shrugged and said....i dont need it.... AND IN A WAY HE WAS RIGHT....
Om: IT is most curious to meet living examples of naturally good people... as well as examples of naturally wicked depraved people...
Om: now.. maybe... if someone had struggled... they could have taught that old man to do something wicked....... but it would have been a struggle....
Om: so.. here is an interesting though..... as an experiment... or even just a thought experiment... pick someone you know who is 'naturally good' and think about trying to teach them something wicked.... IS IT NOT TOTALLY ANALOGOUS to the notion of taking a naturally wicked person,... let say a bully, or a slut or whoremonger... and teaching them something good
Om: now.... after TWO THOUSAND YEARS of Christianity.... CAN anyone really point to christian nations and peoples.. and say that they are one bit nicer... or more moral.. than , lets say for example, Buddhist nations and peoples????
Om: and if someone behaves themselves out of shame, or fear of punishment, or hope of reward.... CERTAINLY THEIR INNER NATURE IS STILL WICKED,... in that they desire and fantasize over what is evil... but are only outwardly obedient....
Om: lets face it... the officially Atheist Communist Government of the USSR had a SEVENTY YEAR experiment to raise THREE GENERATIONS of people in an Atheist society... but.. IT DIDNT WORK... when the USSR dissolved, an astounding number of people were thirsting for religion of some kind.... so... lets face it... worship and religion is a BASIC HUMAN NEED
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