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(6-18-99)
(email feedback from "A Moth to the Flame" - Page 47)
Excellent !! This conversation is really really invigorating. Infact just yesterday I met my old friend from school & he was talking about the 'Pushti Marg' of the Vallabhacharya lineage , & I promised to go with him to one of these meetings.
But I come back to one question again & again , the divide between the merging of the soul & that of retaining his identity after attaining 'mukti'. I was just reading the Gita again , & in verse 2.12 , Krishna clearly mentions that 'never was a time when I did not exist , nor you nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be' . Merging into the Brahmajyoti & relinquishing one's individual spiritual identity is not supported if we go according to this verse. I humbly request you to clear this doubt.
One of my other friends had this question. He said that if there are 4 yugas each with progressively decreasing religosity etc., how is it possible for Satya yuga to be converted to Treta etc, because if majority of people in Satya are truthfull etc , how can they allow themsleves to be influenced by a small minority who are less truthfull ? What should be the correct way of answering this ?
The same friend was also talking about Brahman & merging into Brahman as the goal. If we are the Supreme Brahman , Why do we need a book or a scripture like the Vedas to tell us that we are the Supreme Brahman, we should know of it because its our nature. The main question is that how can the Supreme Brahman be influenced by Maya or Illusion. That would make illusion greater than Brahman.That is not possible. His reply was that we are currently not in 'that Supreme State' , once we attain to it we will have no need of any scripture or any God. I have a feeling that this is not the right way. We are brahman but God is Para Brahman.
Just some doubts, I hope you wont take any offense. Please do answer my doubts.
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT reply! Thank you! How happy I am both to receive your letter, and also to know of others who discuss such important topice!
I do hope you will give me your permission to publish this most excellent letter in my website.... www.geocities.com/athens/atlantis/3425 so that others might profit and benefit from these thoughts!.
I must read some more,.... and answer you as best I can,.... although I am really not so knowledgable in these things, and do not have a sound scholarly foundation in scriptures....
And never worry about such things as my "taking offense" at anything... these are difficult questions.... It is a great virtue simply to have a desire to discuss them. No one really has definitive answers or "solutions".
I will post this now,.... and read and reflect
[you wrote]: Excellent !! This conversation is really really invigorating. Infact just yesterday I met my old friend from school & he was talking about the 'Pushti Marg' of the Vallabhacharya lineage , & I promised to go with him to one of these meetings. [end of excerpt]
I am very fond of Vallabhacharya.... but am only familiar through the writings of an american, Shyam Das , who as a young man learned learned the dialect in which Asta Chap poets wrote, and the "84 Vaishnavas" accounts of Vallabh.
Oh, such precious stories.... as the devotee who offered the dry chapatis, at the bottom, and when he returned to the Moorty, they were on top (that the Diety especially savours even the humblest of sincere offerings).....
and another about how the savour of ONE CHICK PEA of Krsna Prasadam, exceeds the excellence of many fine foods..... (I am quoting from my poor memory)....
It is nice to have some "Satsang" with you , even if only electronically over the interenet.
Saturday in Manhattan was the annual Ratha Yatra Procession. Starting at noon, and lasting 3 hours, and travelling with hand pulled carts , and proceeding 50 city blocks, about 1000 people participating, with perhaps 2000 people at the park where the tents were set up for prasadam, selling of books, malas, and performance of religious plays and songs.....
And I was behind the last cart of Lord Balaram all the way, with my left hand on the cart, symbolically pushing, and my right hand in the Gomukh with the mala doing japa. And I do not speak with anyone until the procession is over.
And during the procession, as I recite mantra, and attempt to focus my mind, it is difficult to describe the Divine Lilas which pass through my mind, but it is as though during those 3 hours, I experience in microcosm, the great passtime of the entire universe, from creation to destruction.......
words become inadequate, and the thoughts race.... but... I am thinking of a passage from somewhere, which mentions that.... "We have always been present, with the Lord,... we were present at Kurukshetra, perhaps as merely a blade of grass or an ant...."
Oh... and each year, (i have been in Ratha yatra for 5 or 6 years now)..... I have some wonderful learning.....
I was sitting with two devotees in the park eating Prasad, and listing to their conversation.... and one quoted from the Gita..... "What my devotee POSSESSES (in spiritual achievements) I PRESERVE from birth to birth, and what my devotee LACKS (shortcomings) I CARRY (I cover for them or overlook through mercy or grace)."
Such a lovely comforting thought....
[you wrote] : But I come back to one question again & again , the divide between the merging of the soul & that of retaining his identity after attaining 'mukti'. I was just reading the Gita again , & in verse 2.12 , Krishna clearly mentions that 'never was a time when I did not exist , nor you nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be' . Merging into the Brahmajyoti & relinquishing one's individual spiritual identity is not supported if we go according to this verse. I humbly request you to clear this doubt. [end of excerpt]
At this point I should tell you that I personally lean towards,... is is the Vashistadvaita (spelling?)... and is it Ramanuja>>???? but... the notion the we come infinitely (or indefinitely close... as close as one pleases [in the language of calculus] to the Godhead, and yet never become identical)....
hmmm.... and I am suddenly remembering..... at the end of the Gita... does it not say something like "whereever this shall be recited, Lord Krsna AND ARJUNA shall be present..." ... perhaps my poor memory is mistaken.... but if I am correct... then.... the separate personality of Arjuna is preserved... and there is some importance to the Lord in the preservation of that individual personality.......
And also comes to my mind,... the end of Valmikis Ramayan (not Tulsidas).... does he not mention in a similar spirit, that, wherever this Katah is sung,... Hanuman will be present.... again this is all from memory... so I may be mistaken.... but if I am correct... then here are two examples of the preservation of individual personalities which are separate from the Godhead ... and yet very close and very dear to the Godhead....
Remember Lord Krsnas words..... (paraphrasing) "I consider all creatures alike, none is especially hateful or dear,.... AND YET MY DEVOTEE is dear to me!!!!
So.... I think there are strong indications that some separation always remains...
and yet.... as a "creature" in separation, one is no more special to the Godhead than another.... and yet that creature which has become TRANSFORMED through SURRENDER to become a devotee..... (and hence, begins to take on aspects of the Godhead)... now becomes especially dear to the Godhead,.... perhaps in the sense that SELF is dear to itself in general,... but in particular... if the SELF of the Godhead IS the embodiment of that which makes possible BEAUTY, TRUTH, VIRTUE.... ALL GOOD THINGS.... then that which is LIKE it,.... becomes DEAR to it, not simply through IDENTITY.... but because, in drawing close, THE OTHER ASSUMES THE very QUALITIES or essence OF GOODNESS AND BELOVEDNESS.
And, yet, Love, careing, desiring, yearning, always requires some remnant of separation.
I think if you look at my page 2 of the www.geocities.com/athens/atlantis/3425 and read the passage from Meher Baba, about the relationship between the creatures and the Creator...... that passage is one of the best I have found to illustrate some of these principles...
[you wrote]: One of my other friends had this question. He said that if there are 4 yugas each with progressively decreasing religosity etc., how is it possible for Satya yuga to be converted to Treta etc, because if majority of people in Satya are truthfull etc , how can they allow themsleves to be influenced by a small minority who are less truthfull ? What should be the correct way of answering this ? [end of excerpt]
Perhaps we must drench our minds in the wonderful mystery which Tulsidas puts forth... that although the spotless virtue of Sita is imprisoned by Ravanna, yet the ESSENTIAL SITA is deposited in the protection of AGNI, to remain pure and unspotted...... and though the SITA who is on Lanka (who is never apart from the Sita within Agni!).... the Sita on Lanka perserveres in virtue, remaining undefiled,.... and yet.. in the minds of the many, is defiled SIMPLY BY BEING PRISONER IN the phenomenal world....... and hence the necessity for Her later exile.
SO..... is not this the same situation as all the souls proceeding from Satya Yuga to Kali Yuga, and yet always being always non-different from Brahman
The same wonderful mystery as the Lord taking birth countless times, and yet remaining nameless and formless, and the string or sutra upon which the UNIVERSE is strung like so many pearls! .... and yet.... in the mind of the wonderful Garuda, doubt could arise, which could only be dispelled by the sacred Katah sung by the most humble of crows, Bushundi!
The Formless taking form, the nameless and ineffible telling us a NAME,.... is this very progression,..... from OUR PERSPECTIVE... because of MAYA, we behold this as a DOWN HILL, decline.... BUT from the perspective of the Godhead, it is ELEVATION, uplifting.... ....Patita bhavana... Sita Ram! So for us it is a DESCENT, and for God it is ASCENT.....
Valmiki describes Lord Ram ascending to heaven... IN THE COMPANY OF ALL THE SACRED MANTRAS, which themselves have individuality and personality, to the extent that they can have SATSANG,... accompaniment with the Lord....
And when Draupadis Sari becomes INFINITE IN LENGTH,... this is an Avataric Incarnation.... and yet Mother Yashoda finds that all the rope in Vrindavan is always an inch short of encompassing the infinite DAMODAR.... (who through mercy allows Himself to be bound)..........
But consider the 8 Siddhis of the Divinity....
To become INFINITELY GREAT and/or INFINITESIMALLY SMALL
To become the Heaviest and/or the Lightest
To acquire anything, to accomplish anything...
(but here is the most significant to these issues)
to achieve ABSOLUTE MASTERY.... or enter into ABSOLUTE SERVITUDE, Slavery, bondage.....
and does not the Lord say "I am BOTH THE FIRE and the OFFERING, the Sacrificer and the Sacrifices (how similar this is to Christianity)"
[you wrote]: The same friend was also talking about Brahman & merging into Brahman as the goal. If we are the Supreme Brahman , why do we need a book or a scripture like the Vedas to tell us that we are the Supreme Brahman, we should know of it bcos its our nature.The main question is that how can the Supreme Brahman be influenced by maya or illusion. That would make illusion greater than Brahman.That is not possible. His reply was that we are currently not in 'that Supreme State' ,once we attain to it we will have no need of any scripture or any God. I have a feeling that this is not the right way. We are brahman but God is Para Brahman. [end of excerpt]
And we can look to the Old Testament, to the last book of Malachi, Ch. 3, where it says that "The wise and God fearing converse with one another, and God listens, and has it recorded in His book." ..... the individual personalities AND THE DIALOGUE... (the Lila) seem to be important to the Godhead....
and in the New Testament,..... "In my Father's house, THERE ARE MANY MANSIONS,.... I go there to prepare a place FOR YOU (you in your INDIVIDUALITY, not as totally reabsorbed to the point of non-difference)".....
"Your name is written in a book (again , individuality)"
Of course, we must reflect that ALL SACRED SCRIPTURES.... are written and addressed to INDIVIDUALS,.... i.e. the individual personality and ego of each reader or listener.
[you wrote]: Just some doubts, I hope you wont take any offense. Please do answer my doubts. [end of excerpt]
and of course, never can there be any offense in sincere attempts to discuss and understand such important matters......
Perhaps it is the case that the UNANSWERABLE QUESTION is the UNMOVED MOVER of the Soul, like a source of power and energy....
The words of the Hasidic Rabbi ... Baal Shem Tov " G-D has hidden His light in this physical world.... find it... and YOU WILL SEE TO THE ENDS OF THE UNIVERSE!"
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