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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
(12-19-98)
QuakerLady: I'm sure Everyone has experienced some level of disapointment with God. When our ego says one thing and God says another we are bound to be disapointed! But I have always found my way back.
QuakerLady: Om, yes I am really a Quaker.
Om: I very much admire Quakers.... from what I have known and seen...
Lion_of_Judah: whats you selling in this room?
QuakerLady: Did yahoo hickup or did everyone go away?
Lion_of_Judah: is om still trying to sell his heathen doctrine?
QuakerLady: Oh good, everyone is back! What is your religion Om?
Om: I read an excellent paperback by David Murray-Christie called 'The History of Heresy' David was an Anglican Priest who researched the book for 20 years.. but during the research was so transformed that he resigned the priesthood.... and became a QUAKER
Om: TODAY I am selling quaker doctrine
Lion_of_Judah: first the bait
Om: we're having a special
Lion_of_Judah: then the hook
Lion_of_Judah: tie bait to hook
Lion_of_Judah: tie hook to line
QuakerLady: I think religion of any sort is of no value unless you experience it personally. Prroof is of no value. Empty belife is of no value.
QuakerLady: The value is in a living faith that suits the individual
QuakerLady: Dick, have you tried more than one religion?
Om: I was raised with no religion by nominally protestant parents who never took me to church even once... at age 22 I became greek orthodox christian (haveing learned ancient and modern greek)..entered a monastery for 2 yrs.. remained orth. layperson for 17 yrs,.. then studied korean zen for 2 yrs.. now I am attending Guyanese Hindu Temple in brooklyn 6 yrs (age 50 now)
Dick_Tracy: why believe something u don't even know is there
Lion_of_Judah: good man om
Dick_Tracy: yeah
Dick_Tracy: hinduism
Dick_Tracy: muslim
Dick_Tracy: buddhism
Dick_Tracy: voodooism
QuakerLady: Dick, when I experience God, I know God is there. I don't know it because someone else tells me there is a God.
Dick_Tracy: was a christian for 15 years
Om: a very nice paperback by Japanese prof of American literature... showing Zen thoughts inherent in New England Trancendentalist writers like Thoreau and Dickens... quotes a 19th century Unitarian Bishop, Ullathorpe.. saying Although God is everywhere present, He is not everywhere accessible, only in the DEPTHS OF THE HEART...
Lion_of_Judah: was raised with jesus ..lost him at 16....found him again at 33...has dwelt in religion and philosophy since then, ....is now 50 as well
Om: ACtually .. the word Voodoo, comes from a native word Voudoun.. which means SACRED, HOLY, NUMINOUS....
Dick_Tracy: can never believe in religion again
Dick_Tracy: but that is all just myth
Om: of course... one sees some things in the New Testament which could very accurately be described or perceived as voodoo
QuakerLady: The black magic part scares me, Dick. But I wouldn't ask you to believe in religion. I'd only ask you to try to stay receptive to God on a one to one basis.
Lion_of_Judah: can discuss any religion at length and with understanding and will lay his life down in defence of jesus being god
Om: I dont suppose there are any devout roman catholics here...
QuakerLady: Om, We'd have heard if there were I think!
Om: im in brooklyn ny quakerlady where are you
QuakerLady: Dick, perhaps because killing is not acceptable in the eyes of God.
QuakerLady: Om - I'm near San Francisco
Om: quaker...in old testament.. God specifically says that David is not qualified to build a Temple... because David shed blood... so Solomon.. who was not in combat... built the temple...
QuakerLady: Lion, I'm impressed, but uninterested in these proofs.
Om: in is interesting that greek orthodox priests are not allowed to fish or hunt.... i.e. kill anything....
Om: I have been involved in an interesting dialogue... which started in christian chat.... concerning Christian Unity.. and involving ROman Catholicism....
QuakerLady: Om, many people think that the Bible says we have power over animals. They miss that we have stewardship to care for them!
Om: the following statement was made by a protestant... in Christian chat a while ago..
Om: Don't U think there is enough non-believers around to tear down christians without us tearing down each other....Does it really matter whether one believes in tongues and one dosn't....or isn't it more important that as a whole WE are the body of Christ....
Om: ...non-believers come in christian chat searching for truth and all they find is DIVISION.... ...there should be unity in the Body of Christ...believers of gifts...or non-believers of gifts are all children of GOD.....I don't care whether you believe in the exact same thing as I do...If u have accepted Jesus Christ in your heart...you are my brother/sister and thati is ALL that matters
Om: that was the statement made by one protestant.... so then I asked the following question
Om: so.. does that include the Pope of Rome... porcelein1... is the Pope of Rome your brother?
QuakerLady: Dick, I can only say Be still and know that I am God or, quiet your ego, your body, your judgement, and see if in your own soul you can feel the power of God. No one outside your soul can proove anything about God to you. The only proof is personal experience.
Om: so... their response was....IF he has accpted Jesus Christ as his savior...he is!
Disciple: 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
tanje_98 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS
Om: christian is a meaningless word... are you roman catholic.... lutheran.. baptist... pentacostal...etc
Doc: Christian is basically what the sayer wants it to be. As you've said ...
Doc: ... it's very imprecise.
Doc: What one person says is a christian ...
Doc: .... thousands would disagree with.
Doc: Again, following Christ can mean thousands of different things.
Disciple: In it's TRUE meaning.. That is the key
Jawahar: Om, I'm Catholic. Really all those denominations have no meaning before
Disciple: Jesus never changed.. We changed him..
Klein: There are no denominations in heaven , just thoses who have believed in Gods only begotten son.
Jawahar: Om, U sound very much Indian
Om: tony... I am in brooklyn ny.. I have no indian ancestry... I am dutch, british , irish.. but I worship in a Guyanese Mandir... called Bhuvaneshwar... and we read Tulsidas Ramacaritamanassa
Jawahar: Oh, so nice to hear that, Om
Om: I meet so many protestants who are reluctant to even say that the Pope of Rome.. is a Christian.. this seems so foolish and uncharitable....
OM Only God knows at what point a man KNOWS the claims of the church
OM well... dont you see a big fat problem with anyone who wont acknowledge even that someone else IS CHRISTIAN!!!!???? HOW can they possibly even recognize anyone else as crhistian for congregational worship
OM a lot seemse to me to hindge on Christs words Wherever 2 or 3 are gathered IN MY NAME... I am present...
Shellie: no I have made too many mistakes over and over again
Riska: shellie God cant lose you all you have to do is turn around and he will be there
Disciple: Zepheniah 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.
Giants: every sin that ever could be commited...
Douay: tells you, Even Catholics confuse that verse OM that seems to be a PRETTY BROAD DEFINITION.... 2 or 3 gathered in my name.... sounds like that could be any two people
Klein: Gods Emergency recovery system is 1john 1;9 and all believers have to use this daily.
Douay: Catholicism is essentially Traditional OM: I just see real problems in the statements of that first person PORCELAINE.... I see real contradictions.... I see the heart of the problem in all christian dis-unity... in those statements...
Klein: Scriptures say you are forgiven if you confess your sins do you believe what jesus has said here, Restored to fellowship, now you must eat spirituall food and acquire strenght for your self.
Klein: If we continuallyl so the same sin over and over then we are dictating to god how we are going to live our lives., wheather he likes it or not.
Giants: yeah and somehow they miss the 25 other scriptures about the church judging righteously
Tattoo: Think about it - Clinton has many gifts that God has given him - intelligence, charisma
Latessa: only a christian could be president now
Tattoo: Tatt, just iumagine what a witness it would be if CLinton were to repent and tell this godless nation that he has turned his heart to the only one that can forgive his sins
Tree: do not disappoint us; treat us gently, as you yourself are gentle and very merciful (Daniel 3:42)
Latessa: next president must be clean as a whistle
Om: I just enjoy theological discussions and debates of different religions.. if I wanted sillyness I can turn on cartoons on tv
Exterm: OM--lets discuss your beliefs about how to be saved from hell
Om: you wouldnt find that very interesting... Hindus dont believe in hell.. so it would be a short conversation
Om: Hindus believe that Jesus is a God-Man , and Avatar, or Incarnation.. but they believe it has happened many many times.. because.. God can do anything.. and is not limited...
Om: but of course.. that belief doesnt make Hindus Christian.... obviously
Om: are there any devout roman catholics in the room...??
Exterm: oh--too bad Om--i feel that Jesus is the only Son of God and only thru Him can you be saved
Firefox: I was OM
Giants: what is a prayer warrior..
Canew: A prayer warrior is one who spends much time in prayer.
Ray: Christmas should be to all , the celabration of the fullfillment of God's love , when God let His Son Jesus come to this earth to save us all from our sin !! we should thank God everyday, not just this time of year , that He loved us enough to let His Son Jesus come to this earth just to save us where we could live with God for all eternity in heaven
Om: manila... I having a hard time understanding your answers is your whole family ROMAN CATHOLIC... or BORN AGAIN.... and were you ever raised in roman catholic church...
Giants: actually christians dont save anyone...
Om: manila... christian means any number of different things.... roman catholics think they are christian.... baptists...calvinists... even mormons claim to be christians... its far better to simply say your actuall denomination...
Rented: MORMONS?
Rented: CHRISTIANS?
Om: so... I suppose a lot of folks in here would say that roman catholics arnt christians but devil worshipers.... or maybe they wouldnt come out and be so honest.. but would just THINk of them as devil worshipers.... Knight_song roman catholics are devel worshopers?
Om: what... Lutherans arent allowed in Christian Chat..???? antioch61 doesnt think catholics are devil worshipers
Rented: just because the Catholic Church is the Great Whore of the earth , there is no need for name calling
Om: most protestants I talk to seem reluctant to call roman catholics christians..... so if they arent worshiping christ.. then what is left to worship... as far as the christian mentality is concerned
Ray: only through Jesus can anyone be saved
Firefox: Sorrow ya need to find Christ ijn your heart and not worry about people fancyit Ok who are we bashing now? antioch61 is not listening to the negetive comments about any relegion........... Sorrow1n1 What about Buddha
Firefox: not bashing anyone
Om: now.... hmmm... doesnt Jesus say... Wherever two or three are gathered IN MY NAME,... I am there as well... so isnt Jesus present at the Roman Catholic Mass.. and arnt Roman Catholics Christians??????
Rented: Siddartha or Buddah was a very wise individual whose teaching in many cases paralell those of Christ
Firefox: Budddha died , was buried and is still there
Rented: there was a time and place for Buddah but now is the time for Christ
Firefox: JESUS is the Way, the Truth and the Life!!!!
Giants: because like I said I dont have religion...
Om: so what is the definition of being a Christian... how can you recognize another person as a Christian... is it simply sufficient if you ask them Are you a Christian? and if they say yes.. then they are a Christian???
Deut: mankinds idea of religion is a religion of works salvation. God's way of religion is a religion based on faith. Good works being a result of that faith.
Om: that is very nice firefox... are you a christian???
Rented: every time I rob,rape and kill I just praise JESUS AND ALL IS FORGIVEN AND ALL IS RIGHT AGAIN BECAUSE I JUST NEED JESUS AND NOT ALL THE THINGS HE TAUGHT
Deut: Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Firefox: No I am a believer, at best a disciple
Firefox: Through Him all thing s were created that were created
Om: so then your statement christian = christlike... isnt very useful.... in recognizing other christians... since you, foxfire.. say that you are NOT a christian... ALTHOUGH you believe that perhaps YOU ARE A DISCIPLE.....
Firefox: Om it is if ya know Jesus
Om: so firefox.. you just told me you arent a christian... right.... or did I misunderstand your answer
Rented: But isn't repentance a religious principle? Snow_Knight Q: Is Buddhism a false religion?
Om: so... fire fox... are you a christian??? jadon god didnt create satan.....its like a good parent who raised his child upright but the child chose to steal .....did the parent create a theif or a son?.....and who made the theif?
Deut: there is false religion and pure religion.... Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. right...
Giants: Firefox have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior?...
Firefox: right Om
Om: firefox... do you personally know ANY CHRISTIANS???
Deut: genuine salvation is the result of sorrow for our sin. Otherwise, if there is no repentace, what would that say about that persons heart?
Firefox: Christian means Christlike
Giants: you are Christlike... You have the life of Jesus living on the inside of you...
Om: FIREFOX.. I think I have that definition down pat... lemme see... christian means christlike... yup.. ive mastered that concept...
Giants: I go to church Knight.. but most people indentify their relationship with God through their religion..
Om: ok.. so fire fox.. you just answered very few.. but that means... Yes I know at least 2 actual genuine christians...
Deut: Ac 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Om: so... firefox... those one or two actual christians that you know... how can you tell that they are christians
Giants: My relationship is based on one thing and one thing only...
Giants: that JESUS is my Lord and Savior...
Firefox: It shows Om
Deut: Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Snow_Knight what shows OM?
Om: well.. fire... did you ask them if they were christian.. and did they say yes, I am christian>>>????
Om: firefox says he/she believes in Jesus.. but is not a christian.. because christian means
Om: christlike
Firefox: Didn't have to ask Om, I know my Savior and they reminded me of Him
Om: and foxfire says that he/she knows only one or two genuine christians in the world..
Firefox: Hey Om firefox!!
Om: and when I asked... How can you tell they are christians.. fox fire said... it shows...
Deut: lol...maybe thats why OM is getting mixed up...foxfire...lol
Giants: Your relationship with God only grows from spending time with Hi,...
Ray: I am a Christian because I have experienced God's love through His Son Jesus who died for my sins . and for the sins of the whole world also!!!!
Firefox: Works are an evidence of faith, works don't get ya saved
Om: I just think it is bizarre that so many christians run around telling everyone that they must become christians... but they all swear up and down that the 1 billion roman catholics are not christians... (only 700 million non-RC christians)... and no one can really give any kind of consistant definition as to what it means to be christian... or who is or is not christian... or how one can identify fellow christians....
Om: doesnt anyone find something odd in this situation...
Deut: Om.... Ac 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Physics: OM its all subjective. That is why you need not fear any mans claim of who YOU are not.
Firefox: I don't tell anyone they must become Christian, I tell them they need to accept Jesus as Savior
Deut: Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Om: well... look six of one.. half a dozen of the other... however you cut and slice and dice it.. bottom line... if you dont accept Jesus as your personal saviour.. then bad things will happen... and yet.... no one seems certain of who is or is not a genuine christian..........
Om: is there anyone in this room who is CONVINCED.. that the Pope of Rome is DEFINITELY NOT a Christian???????
Firefox: Om you just want an excuse NOT to believe
Om: no... I am really just trying to make some kind of sense out of what all the folks in christian chats rooms are saying, day in and day out...
Om: look... I hear a lot of lip service... a lot of quotes like... only one path.. Jesus... but... I want some concrete definitions of what it means to be christian... who is and is not christian.. why the non-catholics have such problems saying that roman catholics are christian...... I dont want lip service... and people spouting vacuous generalized little verses here and there....
WmJames: Om to be a Christian is to follow the teachings of Christ
Om: ok.. williamjames... in your estimation... is the Pope of Rome a christian.. yes or no...
WmJames: and I am not catholic
Om: okey dokey..... now.. next question williamjames.. in YOUR ESTIMATION... is Bill Clinton a Christian??? yes or no
Deut: physics....answer my question...did any of them fulfill the prophesies in the old testament (or any other for that matter) concerning the comming of the Messiah, and how He would be crucified in our place. That He would be born in Bethlehem?That He would be cut-off from among us, that He would be 40 days in the wilderness???
Firefox: NO Om!!!!!
Om: firefox.. we already know that you have only identified 2 people on the planet as christians.. so you are excused from this conversation
Om: ok... williamjames... you unhesitatingly say that the Pope of ROme is christian.. but you are fairly certain that Bill Clinton is probably not a Christian....
Firefox: Uh Om you asked me how many I knoew personnally not how many there are
Physics: Its Gods universe, and he can do as he will withit. The only problem is that christians are the only ones that do not accept what God decided to do. i.e. run the universe by immutable laws
Deut: what I am saying is that the difference between The true Saviour and the false ones is that Jesus fulfilled all Old Testament prophesies concerning Him. The false ones did not.
Om: so... I take it that being a christian means... not sinning at all.. some kind of moral perfection.. so.. if there is any public knowledge of.. lets say.. fornication.. then that person is not a christian.... am I correct in my understand of your beliefs williamjames
Deut: OM...thats ridiculous. We are all sinners.
Deut: we are FORGIVEN sinners
WmJames: No Om...it simply means trying to follow Christ, we all make mistakes, the problem with Boll is that he does not appear to have a desire to change his ways
Kyan: om being a Christian means that we are forgiven, not that we do not sin
Om: so... williamjames... is it fair to say or assume.. that you reject Martin Luthers doctrine of salvation by Faith... and you feel that only the fruits of WORKS... confirms one as a Christian... and WORKS... such fruits means... GENUINE REPENTANCE.. which means.. never sinning again....
WmJames: I felt that Clinton was saying more that he was sorry he got caught, and not saying he was sorry for the deed
Om: well.. look ... my initial big question is... HOW CAN YOU RECOGNIZE A FELLOW CHRISTIan.. WHO is and who is not a christian... and in particular ... those many people who say the Pope of Rome is not Christian.. why they would say that...
WmJames: probably true Om I think that true faith in Christ is revealed through our works
Om: but.. this is related to my even bigger question.... WHERE IS THE SO CALLED UNITY of faith.. amongst Christains.. which Jesus prayed for in Gesthement Heavenly Father make them ONE, even as you and I are ONE
Giants: I still wonder why all the non believers come here....
WmJames: OM_ not all people who say LORD LORD will enter thy kingdom but those who do the work of the lord a Christian.... then I accept that.. and perceive them as a Christian... whether Roman Catholic.. or born again or pentacostal... or even a Mormon... because Mormons .. if you ask them will answer.. Yes.. I am a christian
WmJames: OM_ many people go to chuch and claim to be christians
Om: good point williamjames.... but.... does it make sense to define Christian... only interms of those who ARE ACTUALLY SAVED AFTER DEATH....
WmJames: OM I happen to agree...unless thier behavior proves otherwise
Om: Jesus own words... Whenever 2 or three are gathered in my name... I am there... Jesus doesnt guarantee that those 2 or three.. ARE SAVED.. AND ACTUALLY WILL ENTER INTO HEAVEN...
WmJames: OM_ no that is not my definition but as I said a follower of the teachings of Christ
Om: isnt there some kind of real problem in Christianity..... some confusion... assuming that the word Christian denotes someone who is sinless and perfect and saved....
Om: it seems to me if one looks at St. Pauls analogy of being a Christian as a RACE TO BE WON... but which might possibly be LOST....
Om: IF someone tells me I am a Runner ... a Marathon Runner.. lets say... well.... I dont ask them how many marathons they have won...
Om: I look for sneakers of course... and some wear and tear on the sneakers...
WmJames: No the word of Christ does not denote that but rather promotes the treatment to fellow mankind...it is throught our service to others that we serve Christ, and others means all of mankind not just Christians
Om: I look for a marathon tee shirt with a number on it....
Om: but... they are a runner in the race.... they may finish first.. they may finish last.. they may even drop out.. they may even take a wrong turn.. and start running in a DIFFERENT DIRECTION... but.. they are still runners .. ARNT THEY?
WmJames: OM yes that is the teachings of Christ as well
Om: I guess no one in here really sees any big fat problem.. with lact of christian unity... or with the fact that there is no agreement about what the word christian means.. or who is and is not a christian...
Smile: some things are true whether you believe them (or can Prove them) or not.
Om: hmmmm... what about the parable of the gardener and the fig tree.. which had never born fruit.. and the garden owner said.... Lets cut the tree down.. and the gardner.. said.. lets give it a few more years.. and see if it bears fruit... now... no one DISPUTED THAT THE FIG TREE IS A FIG TREE.. OR THAT IT IS A TREE.. simply because it hadnt givin fruit.. or might be cut down and burned...RIGHT...???
Om: and.. the gardener was still a gardener... even if he had no crop to show for his work.. and the vineyard was still a vineyard.. even if it was a barren vineyard...
WmJames: OM are you concerned that I do not feel that Bill Clinton behavior shows him to be a Christian ?
Om: so.. isnt EVERYONE WHO RUNS THE RACE... a Christian... even a lot of them might be LOOSERS... ultimately....
Physics: <----knows that a christian is hard pressed to tell truth
Deut: OM; there are no loosers....it's not a race where we can boast in pride say..I win, you lose!
Om: I guess you really arnt reading what I am saying carefullly... I dont give A CRAP about clinton or Pope John Paul per se... I am trying to get people to realize that there is a BIG FAT PROBLEM... with the very word CHRISTIAN and with the absence of christian unity
WmJames: OM_ I would agree with that....but the same is true of any religion, or group of people
Om: well... williamjames.. you are correct.. in the sense that there are sectarian divisions in every known religion... Jains have Digambra and Svetasambra... Hindus have Vaishnavs Shivites and mny others... Jews have reform conserv orthodox even Lubavitchers... Islamic has Sunni Shiite Sufi... Buddhist has Mahayana Theravadin... PUreland......
Om: but... in Buddhism for example.. even though many divisions.. many vehicles.. no one in any one group really says that those in other groups arnt Buddhists....
EndTimes: jains have got to be the most peaceful religion yet on the planet
EndTimes: om are you saying that christian are alwayts on a WITCHUNT
Om: and Jews recognize Jews... with exception that I think they condemn Lubavitchers outright for their believe that Rebbi Menachem Schneerson will come back from dead as Moshiach....
EndTimes: JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY EVERYONE ELSE GOES TO HELL?
WmJames: OM we have a lot of non Christians who claim to be Christians and judge other people, you asked me what I personally thought, which is what I answered. however other believe differently
Om: well.. yes... christians do seem to be always on a witch hunt.. if you ask most protestants... whether Roman Catholics are christians... and the say NO for a variety of reasons...
Physics: Seventh, the laws of the universe are the SAME after creation. There can be no breaks or suspention, or else creation does not indicate the creator.
Deut: Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Deut: Mt 10:16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Om: if I had it in my power to ASK ALL OF CHRISTIANDOM my questions.. I would certainly do it.. but I can only ask various individuals their opinions..... and then try and sort out the answers for myself
WmJames: True Om I am not putting you down only giving you my opinion...which if you asked me about other parts of my belief I am sure they would differ from other christian
Om: william james.. are you roman catholic???
WmJames: no OM I am independent.......I happen to believe that after this life we go on to a next, and the next may be reliving this life, if we have not learned all the lessons in this life
KingTut:Om, I like your name, I heard that chant when I first moved up to Seattle, I say it to myself all the time, it is so pretty
Om: so williamjames.. you believe in reincarnation.... is that correct
WmJames: yes but not neccessarily back into this world
Smile: a church is the gathering of people to fellowship
Om: william james.. just curious.. if its not too personal a question.. do you ever participate in any type of Eucharistic service... receiving Communion...?? and reliability. That is an honest statement.
WmJames: no Om_
Om: ok...thanks williamjames
Seventh: the bible has to be read numerous times to be exact not just once
Deut: those who Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their souls, is the church, wether they be a member of a congregation or not.
Deut: williams... 2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Om: deut... would you say that the Pope of Rome is a Christian... does the Pope fit the definition you just gave.. of someone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their souls????
WmJames: Deut that is where I differ because I do not believe in Christ for the salvation of soul but for the teachings he held for mankind
Deut: Om....one thing I like about you. You did not come here to condemn or insult. YYou came here with real questions. I encourage you in your endeaver there.
Deut: Thank you OM
Om: deut.. thanks.. how about a real answer.. based on the definition you just gave.. is the pope a christian...???
Deut: He encourages prayers to the dead...such as saints
Physics: Deut, states what I believe without asking. Nor is he concerned why. Yet HIS bible tells him to COMPEL men. who is the real unbeliever?
Rabab: I SEE THE ROOM HAVE LOTS OF LITTLE FALSE PROPHETS
Star: Maybe you Rahab, a good Christian, doesn't put anyone on Ignore
CbFem: Have you read the OT? In the Old Testament you have the historical account of a country that repeatedly disobeys God...and you can see how many times God forgives...but He is not a god of idle sayings...it was as if the Jewish people were testing him...it's not a war...it's love
Physics: the mark of a hypocrite to me
Ray: the old testament tell of the people always turning from God , and his great love for them ,,,,, the new testament tells of God's fullfillment to save all of humanity through his son Jesus His son who died for our sins
Physics: How can God ignore something, and at the same time be omni present?
Om: now deut8 made the following statement.. (cut and pasted ) ...those who Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their souls, is the church, wether they be a member of a congregation or not. AND YET DEUT8 is certain that the Pope of Rome is NOT A CHRISTIAN under this definition.. YET I am certain that one could easily find statements in the popes writings and speeches which confirm that the Pope perceives Jesus as a Saviour....????
Firefox: No but God told us if our teaching is not recieved to shake the dust from our shoes and move on
Om: so... im really puzzled how the Pope doesnt fit into that definition of Chrstianity...
Baba: what are the requirements of being a Christian?
KingTut:Om, I do believe the Pope fits that statement
Ray: receive Jesus into your heart , ask God to forgive you , repent of your sins be born again
Baba: then the pope is a christian, I would have to say
Om: ok... king.. you believe the pope fits that statement.. but obviously DEUT8 does not.. and many who claim to be christians hesitate to call roman catholics christians....
Firefox: Will I am not sure but I don't believe we have to listen to blasphemy crydan_98 why do people have such a hard time beliving in jesus at time
Om: and.. to take a random example of a well known public figure.. who is seen going to church.. and carrying a bible.... many express doubts that BILL CLINTON is a Christian.....
KingTut:Om, I dont see why, I never understood that...the Roman Catholics where practically the first organized Christian church
Firefox: Cl;inton fruit is spoiled aOm
Om: and... I am saying that the word CHRISTIAN itself seems to be very meaningless. since no one seems to agree who is a Christian or what it means......
Deut: has no doubts...knows that Clinton is not a Christian.... Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Om: and.. furthermore... it seems to me that if one look at many new testaments passages... one can see great contradiction and conflict between those passages.. and what the average christian in christian chat says about the definition of christianity
Scrappy: What--XM tree, too many gifts, too much money spent--and little joy?
Baba: wait so....you have to DO stuff to be a christian? like, good works?
WmJames: True OM
Foxuse: Love with honesty and practice love at all trimes---Christian
KingTut:Om, which definition should we use, I go for the dictionary.....
Smile: all you have to do is believe, repent, and be born again. nowhere in that is works
WmJames: OM there were different people writing the New Testament therefore different opinions worker_bee No barba you don't have to do stuff to be a christian just except Christ as you Saviour
Foxuse: To be born again means to take on new personality, which includes works!
KingTut:Just last month, my uncle and I argued a bit on what is a Chrsitian
Baba: so couldn't bill clinton be a christian then?
Om: 1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. .... if one looks at St. Pauls metaphor of Christianity as running the race.... it would seem that anyone who runs.. is a Christian.. even if they ultimately give up the race... or... stay in the race.. but loose.. and fail to win the prize
Om: all of these statements like so and so is a Christian if so and so received God... or if so and so is right in their hearts...... THESE ARE ALL WORTHLESS MEANINGLESS DEFINITIONS...
Om: you might as well say so and so is a Christian IF SO-AND-SO IS A CHRISTIAN
Smile: om what would be a meaningful definition to you?
Deut: yeah I do. Where does it say that we should have a Pope?
Om: look... you guys are christians.. supposedly... this is a christian chat room... im a hindu... if you want my definition of what a christian is.. I will tell you.. if I walk up to someone and say What is your religion.. and they answer I am a Christian.... well ... I MIGHT POSSIBLY ASK... Oh.. you mean you believe Jesus Christ is God? ... or I might not ask.. but.. if they say I am a Christian.. that is good enought for me.... they are a Christian...
Regent: Om, not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven.
Om: but what is really puzzling to me is.. obviously most of you WOULD NOT ACCEPT.. a man saying he is christian.. as being sufficient.. AND IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE ALL IN GREAT confusion and disagreement about who is and is not a christian.. and what it means to be a christian...
Smile: OM we are all saying the same thing. you are the confused one
Deut: OM...we are to... 1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
CbFem: Just curious...how is everyone today? What kind of stuff do you struggle with...because you know...you can debate God all you want...but the fact of the matter is Jesus never argued with others about who he is...he just loved people...cared about them...and aren't we (if you are a Christian) supposed to be like Christ?
Dark_Opal: has no problem with the definition of christianity. Considering it is really unimportant in truly getting along with people.
Om: and... you come back with qoutes like.. all who say Lord Lord.. shall not enter the kingdom... but.. my argument is... like St. Pauls words... WHO EVER RUNS THE RACE.. is christian.. whether they win the prize or not.... but you folks seem to confuse the word CHRISTIAN with a notion of BEING SAVED.. and being perfect and SINLESS....
Om: NOW lets look at the book of ACTs ch 26 verse 28.. where King Agrippa says to Paul.. You almose convince me to BE A CHRISTIAN
Om: now.. if you search the entire KJV.. you will find the word CHRISTIAN appearing only TWICE....
Smile: OM you are stuck there. ask you god to answer. we are mere humans msboo3 Par: please understand that the devil sets a stage to keep God's children from Praising God. All Christians aren't like this
Om: no.. im not the one that is stuck.. YOU PEOPLE ARE STUCK.. really and truly stuck.... and you dont know what you really believe.. or what you are talking about.. and you slander vast segments of the worlds believing population.. and judgementally condemn them to eternal torment....
Om: I trying to have some kind of semi-intelligent conversation about this problem....
Om: and I am pointing out that the word christian only appears TWICE in the KJV... once in ACts 26:28
Dark_Opal: Om, this appears to be YOUR conflict. Now ours. I am sure most of use have our own ideas about what is Christian, wether we agree or not, is irrevelant.
Om: that is EXACTLY THE POINT.. each and every one of you HAS THEIR OWN DIFFERENT IDEA about what a CHRISTIAN IS.. so therefore... JESUS prayer in Gesthemene... Heavenly Father.. make them ONE even as you and I are ONE... NEVER CAME TO PASS.. in 2000 years of christian history.. THERE IS NO ONENESS OR UNITY.. it is a sham and a failure
Smile: do you believe in God, om?
Om: I am a hindu.. and I believe in a Hindu concept of God.. which is radically different from Judaeo-Christian-Islamic concepts.... but... what I am ... or whether I believe anything at all.. is of no consequence.. YOU FOLKS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEFINE WHAT THE WORD CHRISTIAN MEANS.. and explain who is and is not a christian....
Om: it shouldnt matter if I am Hindu or atheist.. or anything else....
Smile: why does it matter to you what a Christian is ?
Dark_Opal: finds it very interesting to note that the three major religions all have one concept in common. They all believe in one god. I wonder where that idea started fro
Om: because.... it matters in the sense that so called christians attack the hindu and buddhist and jain and sikh world in a viscious and evil manner.. an I think it is valuable to demonstrate how shallow and false and inherently evil so called christianity really is...
Regent: the, God was speaking via Paul. This is why Peter says Paul's words are scripture.
Scrappy: Is not psychobabble. The Corinthians church distorted Paul's message from Gal 3 that he preached--no Jew/gree/slave/male/female etc & he had to correct that because he was uncomfy with how it was lived out by the Corinthians.
Kathy: OM I am a Christian it matters not to me what you believe I still love and respect you
Scrappy: Paul speaks contextually. Says one thing one place, another another. Common denominator: God breaks down the barriers and all are God's children.
Om: well.. that is very nice of you kathy.. thank you.. I wish that all so-called christians sincerely felt that way... the world would be a better place.... and catholics and protestants wouldnt be murdering each other for decades in ireland either.. I imagine
Kat: We should be working towards a healing not more separation
Smile: CHRISTIANITY IS A BROAD DEFINITION OF A GROUP OF BELIEVERS. THE CONCEPT OF BEING A CHRISTIAN SHOULD NOT BOTHER YOU. YOU SHOULD ONLY BE ATTUNED TO YOUR SALVATION.
Dark_Opal: Vice, the bible is not meant to be taken literally, it is meant to be a guide. Those who learn not of history's mistakes, are doomed to repeat them. Hence a good reason for the Bible, Torah, Koran, etc
Deut: OM...there are such things as False Prophets. Just look at the name list?
Om: it bothers me that so many protestants (and there are 700 million non roman catholic christians).. so many condemn the one billion roman catholics as NOT CHRISTIAN.. and even say that they are worshiping the devil....
Om: .The past 2000 years shows that Christian and Islamic peoples are no more moral or ethical or loving or peaceful that Hindus/ Buddhist. In light of German Jewish Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, conquests of North & So. American Indians, the rise of Communism, the African slave trade, witch burnings, and Islamic conquests... Christian and Islamic peoples are considerably less nice than Hindu and Buddhist peoples.
Om: . India gave refuge in 180 B.C. to Jews fleeing Antiochus Epiphanes.. the Jews were well received, are in Bombay to this day.. and there is no history of anti-semitism in India.
Om: Since Hinduism and Buddhism were well established during the lifetime of Jesus... and since Jesus is believed to be God, and therefore, omniscient, knowing all future events, then why is there not one single mention of Buddhism or Hinduism ... or their alleged falsehood... in any of the Gospels... since there is much mention and warning of false teachers, and deception in the last times?
Deut: does not personally condemn catholics. It's the religion that is to be condemned. And if you dont think that it deserbes to be, wait till you see what The Lord Jesus Christ does when He returns.
Om: .Since God has Omniscient foreknowledge of all future events, if TRUE DOCTRINE were so important, then... God, foreknowing the various disputes regarding Trinity, or Christ's Divinity, or Purgatory, or Transubstantiation... God would have inspired additional, more detailed scriptural verses, to elimnate doubts and disputes on key doctrines.
Scrappy: That must be taken into consideration, no flat interps strait from the text.
Journey: He ruined the Catholic church with his ideas on celibacy - now we have priests who are alcoholics and pedafiles - all because of Paul
Om: ..Worship of God, under threat of eternal torment for failure to believe, or worship, is analogous to romance at gun-point..... its called RAPE. It violates the free-will. And convenants or contracts agreed to under such duress are null and void under most systems of jurisprudence.
Om: I do not care to worship a god which resembles the god that the Judeao-Christian-Islamic West envisions, tormenting souls for eternity with no hope of reform. Worshiping such a god, under threat of punishment, would compromise my basic human dignity..I would prefer enternal torment from such a god...thant to worship it for the paultry pleasures of such a vindictive god's paradise.
Om: so... anyway ... that is more or less a summary of my own thoughts...
CbFem: I agree with God...everything I say is backed up by scripture...you are basing an entire theology on one obscure passage...have you ever thought about reading the rest of the Bible?
Smile: TORMENTING OF SOULS WITH NO HOPE OF REFORM?
Om: It is the West's failure to understand duality, which leads to the folly of trying to eliminate evil, and have only good, eliminate poverty and have only wealth, or convert all people to ONE TRUE FAITH, in one lifetime. It is a very evident historical fact that such unanimous agreement has never been reached in the past 2000 yrs, and will never be reached. This provides evidence for the necessity of rebirth, and gradual spiritual ripening of individual souls.
Om: ever heard of HELL
Smile:...??
Deut: OM...you seriously dont know what you're saying. I certainly take no joy whatsoever in seeing anyone go to hell. Why do you think we tell the Gospel so much. You mention a god of torment, well what of the Torment that we gave to God? What about what Jesus went to the cross for? Do you think that was out of Hate???
CbFem: Why do you base an entire theology on ONE passage when I ahve at least FIVE others on hand that say differently...along with the fact that other sources say things like women at the time were causeing a roucas in church because they didn't know stuff...they had never been educated?
Regent: the, I am my brother's keeper, not the state. Jesus was speaking to you, who gave little to the homeless, I bet and not to the state.
Om: look.. I most certainly do know what I am saying.. it is only the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic religions which have any concept of eternal Hell.. or a satan figure.... and Jesus himself.. when asked in gospel of Luke Shall many be saved?.. answered most definitely NO.. THE GATE IS NARROW THE WAY IS DIFFICULT.. few are there who find it...
Deut: Jesus, did this... there was a murdere to be executed. His friend went to His Father and said, he is my friend. So that justice would be seved, I will die in his place, so that he can live His Father agreed.
Om: but.. even if ONLY ONE SOUL IN ALL CREATION.. went to Hell.. still.. that is one soul which is tortured for all eternity.... with no hope of reform...
Firefox: Om if anyone goes to the Lake of Fire it is because they chose it
Om: which seems like a sick viscious thing for a god to do....
Om: well.. firefox... will the Pope of Rome go to this eternal torment.. this lake of fire...
Deut: OM...every wrong that you have ever commited, has been forgiven at the Cross!
Om: firefox... can you tell me WITH CERTAINTY that you yourself wont go to hell and eternal torment????? mel1na oh yes... I remeber now
Smile: I AM GOING TO HEAVEN
CbFem: me too!!!!
Om: deut... has every wront that the POPE has ever comitted been forgiven at the CROSS...
Deut: I can too OM
Smile: WITH CERTAINTY
Journey: I am going to die - what happens afterward , I REALLY don;t know for sure
Smile: ARE YOU OM?
Deut: yes....if only he would trust the Lord Jesus for his salvation
Kay: what does CBC srad for
CbFem: Does anyone want to talk...you know...not like debate and fight and stuff...but just have a nice conversation?
Firefox: Peole do not go to hell for little sins, the only one that will send them there is REJECTION of Jesus
Om: WAIT a minute firefox.. before you told me that you werent even a christian.. NOW YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT YOU DEFINITELY WILL GO TO HEAVEN????!!!!!
Om: I do not care to worship a god which resembles the god that the Judeao-Christian-Islamic West envisions, tormenting souls for eternity with no hope of reform. Worshiping such a god, under threat of punishment, would compromise my basic human dignity..I would prefer enternal torment from such a god...thant to worship it for the paultry pleasures of such a vindictive god's paradise.
Smile: OM, IT IS YOUR CALL
Journey: I don;t knbow - hell has all the interesting people - John Lennon, Einstein, Beethoven, Mozart, Thomas Jefferson- NONE of thwem Christians, but all great people 0 Heaven, I think, will be filled with geeks
Deut: OM...to say you missed the boat on this is an understatement.
Deut: Suppose you went to jail OM
Foxuse: Too bad om---that is one of Satan's lies to mislead people and alienate them , in their hearts from Father. Loving Father would have nothing to gain by tromenting eternally----and would certainly conflict with, God is Love sATAN LIE!!!!!
Rented: very few people have or will ever have the knowledge need to go to the true HELL
Om: SO foxfire.. and the rest of you.. HAS THE POPE OF ROME rejected Jesus??? will the pope of rome go to this eternal hell.. along with the one billion catholics in the world today>?>>>/???
Journey: I just don;t buy the story anymore - though I do love God with all my heart
Kyan: Om - only the POPE can give you the true answer to that question
Kathy: OM you worship your God and Ill worship mine and we can still love each other BEFORE THEY CAN BE CONDEMNED
Om: but it isnt loving each other.. when you guys condemn the large part of humanity to eternal torture..... and when you wont recognice ONE BILLION ROMAN CATHOLICS.. as CHRISTIANS.. that is not love....
Firefox: Om I may love someone but that will not keep them from the lake of Fire
Journey: smil - it's just that I have a real problem believing that God made us CAPABLE of sinning, then, since he couldn;'t just forgive us with a snap of his fingers, he came down, sacrifieced himself to himself, and then expects people 2000 yrs later to set aside the minds that HE GAVE US and believe in something that we didn;t witness or GO TO HELL FOREVER? That is not God in my opinion - that is man
Smile: YOU ARE STUCK ON THE TITLES OF HUMANS IN THEIR BELIEFS--OM--LOVE YOUR GOD.
Journey: What if we told our children that if they didn;t believe in Santa they would go to hell? I wonder how many adults would die believing in Santa? Is that ANYWAY to teach about God?
Rented: WE ARE FORGIVEN WHEN WE ASK TO BE
Deut: Jesus, Died on the cross in MY PLACE!
Firefox: Some people want to concentrate on things they can't do anything about
Rented: ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS ASK
CbFem: journey...have you been hurt in a religious way?
Om: if protestant religions are so correct.. and roman catholic eastern orthodox religions are so evil.. WHY OH WHY.. was the first 1400 years of Christianity filled with only denominations that externally RESEMBLED ROMAN CATHOLIC TYPE CHURCHES.... even the ARIANS AND MONOPHYSITES AND MONOTHELITES.. looked externally like roman or greek churches.... no little men in business suits giving sermons and talking about salvation by faith...
Rented: THE SUFFERING HAS BEEN DONE FOR US
Firefox: Omm yu are spending your time spinning your wheels and getting nowhere
Deut: wrong OM
Journey: cbc - I have personally worked with over 150 ministers of all Christian denoms over the past 19 years
Deut: before the reformation, there were basicaly two types of christianity.
Journey: cbc - chaplain's assistant in the USAF - last year
Om: you are the hypocrites who spin your wheels and get nowhere.. in your own false beliefs.. and sophistries.. and lies and distortions.. and mutual condemnation of all christian sects which dont exactly agree with your own narrow concept of THE TRUTH
CbFem: why did you become a chaplain?
Deut: The Roman church persecuted to death those who refused to accept Romanism
Journey: cbc - what you need to know is that in my position, I become like a confidant for minisiters who cannot talk to anyone else
Firefox: Om some ya win, some ya lose
Smile: WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT US, THE ONES WHO CONDEMN YOUR RELIGION?
Deut: yet the others did not persecute
Deut: OM...i think I was wrong about you
Kathy: OM I am not here to argue or to debate Im here because I love my Jesus
Om: WELL.. that is the typical christian mentality.. a constantly moving target.. and a constantly changing definition of what christianity is and is not.. of who really is and is not christian........
Journey: cbc - many of them have told me, behind closed doors, that they don;t believe HALF of what they preach
Deut: now that the truth has been told, you will do what your very words condemn. To insult and persecute those who trust the Lord jesus Christ. Because HE does not fit YOUR way of thinking.
Firefox: Om, if I see someone about to drink from a glass that looks like water , but I know is poison, am I not compelled to cry out?
Journey: cbc - It has been a learning experience for me - I am now authoring a book about it
Rented: BELIEVEING IN CHRIST DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN
CbFem: you know...I'm going to a school right now where we are delving into all those problems and tough stuff...it's hard for me...but it's not as full of problems as it seems sometimes
Firefox: demons believe in Christ and they tremble
Smile: I WAS TRYING TO SAY TO OM THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN OR PAGAN OR BUDDHIST OR WHATEVER. GOD LOVES ALL OF US NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION WE CARE TO ACCEPT.
CbFem: so what is your stance on the Bible?
Journey: cbc - It's called Breaking Free: One man's journey to God
Deut: what I said to you OM, is out of concern for your eternal soul. What you say to us, is concern for yourself at the expense of others.
Rented: ACCEPTING HIM AS YOUR SAVIOR DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN
Deut: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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