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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
(12-18-98)
Girl_from_Finland: namaste! how are you doing this beautiful day?
Sitaram: very well.. good to see you
Girl_from_Finland: :)
Sitaram: whats new with you
Girl_from_Finland: I have been sifting through your web site...that's alot of info to go through..but I am enjoying it
Sitaram: I just added 2 new pages
Girl_from_Finland: nothing much is new here..just preparing for xmas
Sitaram: I is good to hear from someone reading it
Girl_from_Finland: seriously..it has been insightful
Girl_from_Finland: enlightening is what I meant
Sitaram: I hope that the argumentative parts wont scandalize you...
Sitaram: that is the ... ugly side.. of religion....
Girl_from_Finland: laughing..no...we all have our moments when that side shows up!
Girl_from_Finland: it is hard to keep your cool when ignorance rears its ugly head at you
Sitaram: well. you see.. I go looking for conflicts as well..
Sitaram: because.... I want to investigate... the phenomenon
Sitaram: of... well.. xtian muslim attacks against hindu/buddhist... and how to defend...
Girl_from_Finland: that's true..but sometimes it is more effective to have heated discussion rather than arguments
Sitaram: its... like a game of chess sometimes
Girl_from_Finland: what I mean is this..when you start insulting someone, rather than just sticking to the issues at hand, you are coming from a position of weakness
Sitaram: well.... I believe in.... attacking with.... theology... scriptural quotations... fight fire with fire...
Girl_from_Finland: true...and that is the effective way to do it
Sitaram: well.. I suppose there are places where I insult xtians and muslims... in the same fashion as they insult hindus...
Girl_from_Finland: true..
Sitaram: i.e. when I tell a muslim that the kabbah stone in mecca is an idol
Girl_from_Finland: but still, you are better than that..you don't need to lower yourself
Sitaram: but then.... from a hindu perspective.. they are bowing to a stone
Sitaram: no... I mean.. I make a valid theological observation.. but.. they find it insulting.... but.. I dont call them a bobo head.. or use profanity
Girl_from_Finland: laughing...that's a good thing
Sitaram: when christians attack me... I sometimes point out that.... the Eucharist.. is really.. symbolically... a form of cannabilism.... symbolically killing god and eating flesh and blood..... but THATS EXACTLY HOW IT CAN BE PERCEIVED BY A NON CHRISTIAN...
Sitaram: SO.. they look at Hindu practice from the outside.. and perceive it as evil... but for the Hindu it is sacred...
Girl_from_Finland: you are right..in fact that is what the ancient romans perceived of the christians
Sitaram: but.. they dont like a taste of their own medicine...
Sitaram: yes.. I would greatly value any feedback... that you can give me... positive or negative.. about website....
Girl_from_Finland: I agree...it is just a shame that it is necessary to get into arguments such as that..you know what I mean.. personally, I don't care what someone believes..as long as they are happy and are on the right path for them..and I enjoy discussing their decisions spiritually
Sitaram: im not certain how many people are actively studying it.. but I only got one letter... which was praise.... and I put it in the website.. under WEBSITE FEEDBACK
Girl_from_Finland: I saw that one! :) I have only had the chance to look at about 4 of your pages thus far
Sitaram: Someone IMed me today in AOL.. and said "are you Indian"....
Girl_from_Finland: really? hmm
Sitaram: well.. I can almost smell a missionary coming...
Sitaram: so... I said... Are you seeking Converts?....
Sitaram: so... silence
Sitaram: then I said.. You might as well be honest
Girl_from_Finland: believe it or not I get that same question when I am in hindu chat...i tell them to look at my name..smile
Sitaram: now... they had already said.. "Do you know the story of Moses"...
Sitaram: and they had said... "I want to give you a gift"...
Sitaram: as if im some brownskined dummy that never heard of the bible
Sitaram: I mean really
Sitaram: so... I said... Look I was greek orthodox christian for 17 years.. 2 of them in a monastery
Sitaram: that always throws them for a loop
Girl_from_Finland: seriously, sometimes we get so stuck up as US citizens...we think that the anglo culture is the only one with anything to offer
Sitaram: and sometimes I say... "and im as white as wonderbread... no brown crusts even..." but I didnt say that this time
Sitaram: but... I said.. I have read entire old and new testament and apocrypha.. several times.. and I read new testament greek...
Girl_from_Finland: laughing....same here...i am so white that I glow...(my boyfriend likes that one! he's indian)
Sitaram: but... then... I said... why dont you visit my website.. and read the page called The Gift of Faith.... it is pure christian theology... and you might find something useful....
Sitaram: so... she said.... "Oh.. I am afraid it might be something INSULTING"....
Sitaram: SO... I said.. well... that shows what a 2 faced cowardly hypocrite you are.. weak in faith... heaven forbid you might read
Sitaram: something to shake your weak faith
Sitaram: then I said... I have better things to do.... Good day to YOU and your REligion...
Girl_from_Finland: true...people are scared to learn about different thought patterns than their own...exactly!! if your faith is strong,,you have nothing to worry about
Sitaram: ohhhh.. and I didnt mention that her screen name was Alluring girl... or something like that.. and she was writing in shocking sexy pink...
Sitaram: almost as if ... seduction.. could win more souls for Jesus....
Girl_from_Finland: laughing....ho for christ..
Sitaram: in some ways... it was lurid....
Sitaram: I mean the underlying sentiment...
Girl_from_Finland: no, I do understand you
Sitaram: oh... and initially I said... How did you find me.. did you scan profiles on HINDU...
Sitaram: WELL.. she said yes..... so obviously she was looking for indian hindu profiles.. and trying to prosyletize that way...
Girl_from_Finland: I just don't get that....randomly im'ing to witness...
Sitaram: but... its as if these people think that no one knows about Jesus or christianity or judaism.... or anything at alll.......
Sitaram: well.. its the same as lurking in a Hindu chat... they even jump into JEWISH CHATS.... for gosh sake... and say...JESUS IS LORD
Girl_from_Finland: it is an embarrassment...not all of us are like that!! :) (roman catholic here)
Sitaram: I mean... good grief...
Sitaram: roman catholics are generally much better about that sort of thing than the rest...
Sitaram: I mean... if people want to convert... they will convert.... they know what the choices are...
Girl_from_Finland: I have noticed...chats are a place of discussing your religious views..not to harrass people..i mean really!!! how is that supposed to change someones mind??? it is just darn annoying!
Girl_from_Finland: exactly
Sitaram: most people arent that religious about ANY religion.... not even that of their own upbringing
Sitaram: and then..... one protestant group will preach TO ANOTHER PROTESTANT GROUP... and try to convert them TO THE FULL GOSPEL... whatever the hell that is...
Girl_from_Finland: personally I figure when I am in hindu chat that I am a guest..and I am their to gain insight into the religion..i wouldn't dream of harrassing them with my religious upbringing. now, if someone asked me about it,,I would share...but that is different
Sitaram: I told one... "oh.. im poor.. and I can only afford a half-gospel church at this time
Girl_from_Finland: laughing...good response
Sitaram: and then the run about shouting "IM SAVED... ARE YOU SAVED"...
Sitaram: someone was showing me a passage in hebrews 6:12 I think.. which shows how meaningless it is to say "i am saved"...
Girl_from_Finland: I have had that happen to me. I used to live across the street from a baptist church..they knocked on my door at least once a week...they just couldn't accept that I was happy with my relationship with god....i couldn't possible as a ROMan catholic! they actually gave me a tract "explaining" how roman catholics actually worship satan.
Sitaram: hmmm.... I cant find the passage right now.. in hebrews... I have it on my latest web page additions though
Girl_from_Finland: what was the gist of the passage? maybe I can find it
Sitaram: oh... you will see in my web page dialogues.. how I am always throwing the catholic church in the face of the protestants.. always saying "well WHY isnt the Pope a christian"....doesnt
Sitaram: he profess Jesus as his "personal saviour"
Sitaram: it was something about... reprobates.. falling away.. and then comming back...
Girl_from_Finland: protestants do tend to get hung up on the sinners prayer...etc...I was raised protestant..i know this for a fact..:)
Sitaram: hold on.. im looking in my latest web pages... my curiosity is aroused
Girl_from_Finland: luckily my parents never let me be a religious bigot. they always let me know that there was several ways to god.
Girl_from_Finland: sure..that's cool
Girl_from_Finland: oh, heres a cool verse for you...whosoever saith that they love god and hates his brother is a liar...but I can't remember where that is found...but
Sitaram: oh that should be easy...
Sitaram: I have theophilos bible software.. its free
Girl_from_Finland: cool....
Sitaram: http://www.theophilos.sk
Girl_from_Finland: that would come in handy...i know a lot of scripture..but I hardly ever remember where it is located
Girl_from_Finland: thanks
Sitaram: I john 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Sitaram: you just say brother liar.... and check all words... and search
Girl_from_Finland: thank you...
Girl_from_Finland: well, at least I got the meaning across though...smile
Girl_from_Finland: very effective verse against bigotry..as long as they will accept the fact that brother means mankind
Sitaram: maybe im thinking of hebrews 6:6
Sitaram: if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves....
Sitaram: oh.. and he who says RACA (fool) is guilty of hell-fire
Sitaram: that is Jesus words too
Girl_from_Finland: just looked that up.....interesting
Sitaram: what hebrews 6:6
Girl_from_Finland: yes...hebrews 6:6
Sitaram: seems to imply that one can ... backslide... and therefore... no one can say "I am saved"....
Sitaram: besides.. the parable about the seeds.. some fell on the rock... some in the sand.. some in the good soil
Girl_from_Finland: true..people forget that spirituality is a journey...that it doesn't stop with saying I believe
Sitaram: well.. some places.. NEVER GOT SEEDS... some places... the seeds never sprouted...
Sitaram: some places the seeds germinated.. but never took root...little sprouts
Sitaram: some places.. the seeds took SHALLOW ROOTS.. and blew away with the first storm...
Girl_from_Finland: paul compares it to a race..that is also in hebrews..i believe hebrews 12..
Sitaram: and only some took.. deep roots.. and became.. trees.. or whatever...
Sitaram: so... this business about... "being saved"... is nonsense
Girl_from_Finland: exactly..
Sitaram: oh... if you look at my page... "think on these things"... and page down.. you will find an entire ROMAN CATHOLIC defense of the doctrine of Purgatory...
Girl_from_Finland: besides I don't think that it was ever jesus' intention to thump thump thump at people...look at the beatitudes...blessed are the meek...etc
Girl_from_Finland: I will have to check that page out..:)
Sitaram: actually... when you look at all the scriptural verses cited regarding purgatory... it seems like a very reasonable doctrine.... but the protestant objection is.. it is never mentioned EXPLICIT.LY
Sitaram: oh.. the word SACRED only occurs ONCE in entire bible... and that is in APOCRYPHA.. Maccabees... it talks of a "sacred" holy day
Sitaram: now.. who would have thought....
Girl_from_Finland: they sometimes forget that scripture is opened up to you by the holy spirit...that not everything is written down..that there is room for interpretation...
Girl_from_Finland: :)
Sitaram: hmmm... I have this neat think I did in chat the other day... about... solomons... word of wisdom is like an apple of gold in a silver filigree fitting.... and how... scripture transforms as you look at it
Sitaram: but.. I need to make it a web page
Girl_from_Finland: I like that analogy..
Girl_from_Finland: do that..
Sitaram: hold on.. maybe I can grab it now
Girl_from_Finland: ok
Sitaram: yippe I found it right away.. hold on
Girl_from_Finland: laughing..cool
Sitaram: I just clipped it... let me trim some of the fat away
Girl_from_Finland: ok...cool
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "of course.. that verse in Psalm 19... "Day unto day.. poureth forth knowledge.. and night unto night understanding..."... seems to me to touch upon.. the.. ongoing nature.. of ones.. dialogue with scriptures..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "and.. of course... Solomons words in Proverbs.... "A word of wisdom , fitly spoken.. is like an APPLE OF GOLD.. in a SILVER FILIGREE (fine screen casing)...." Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "at a distance.. it appears as a SILVER APPLE..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "as we approach more closely.. we see a hint.. a glint of gold..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "and.. as we meditate.. and contemplate... suddenly we comprehend the TRUE nature of the APPLE .. as a GOLDEN apple.. inside a SILVER casing..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "so.. is not our life-long study of scriptures.. much like that silver apple..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "and.. in our contemplatiion... our meditation.. it is not simply the apple.. which transforms in our understanding.. but rather.. the apple changes.. because WE OURSELVES ARE TRANSMUTED..."
Sitaram: Om_Namah_Shivaya says, "and... like those other words of Solomon... "Every son whom the Lord loves, He chastens.. and scourges every true born... and places his soul in the fire of adversity.. like gold in the furnace.. until it reaches a ten-fold purity... like gold..."
Sitaram: hmm.... other times I went on.. further .. with some neat things... about THIRST..... how mother theresa put it on the wall of her convent
Sitaram: I THIRST
Girl_from_Finland: I am going to cut and paste that jewel..thanks
Sitaram: and how that verse transformed.... as she spiritually matured
Sitaram: and Psalms.... "I have thirsted after thee like a deer in a waterless land
Sitaram: and... Rumi's (Jallaludin)... saying "Do not seek WATER.. for water is everywhere... SEEK THIRST
Girl_from_Finland: that is true...the spirit.or whatever you want to call it..reveals different things to you in the same verse depending on where you are in life
Sitaram: so.. there were places where I did it better... and REALLY HAMED IT UP...
Sitaram: AND Jesus saying... SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES.. for therein shall ye find eternal life
Sitaram: you know.. if you click on this dialogue.. and click control+A.. you highlight the whole dialogue text
Sitaram: then.. control+C clips
Sitaram: and of course.. control+V pastes
Girl_from_Finland: I didn't know that...thanks for the information...
Sitaram: that was a boon.. when I first learned that...
Sitaram: then.. of course.. you open a word pad document. to paste into...
Girl_from_Finland: good to know..
Sitaram: I just cut and pasted our dialogue.. as goldapples...
Sitaram: that is the file name
Girl_from_Finland: well, I am going to have to leave for now..but I would like to talk to you at a later date. I do have questions about hinduism in general..but I will ask those when I have time to discuss, if you dont mind
Girl_from_Finland: cool...:)
Sitaram: that text about gold apple.. was out of a 4 hour chat in christian yahoo chat.. which I saved in 8 files.... purgatory01 throught purgatory08.... cause.. one of the big topics was purgatory...
Sitaram: the last two pages I added.. were big big yahoo chats.... cause I just got the cheetah chat software.. free. for yahoo...
Girl_from_Finland: you are just a web master,, aren't you? lol
Sitaram: which allows saving the entire dialogue... which one cant do in plain yahoo software..
Sitaram: well.. yes.. I guess so...
Girl_from_Finland: smiling...
Sitaram: then... I cut away the extraneous stuff... but.. still those big yahoo chats are complex.... with half a dozen peoople participating
Sitaram: but.. I think it captures something.. of the human spirit
Sitaram: and teaches something about religion
Girl_from_Finland: it must make for an exciting read
Sitaram: people become too isolated and provincial
Sitaram: well. you can tell me... just visit... page 55 and page 54.... and read through them...
Sitaram: of course.. they are in christian chats.. and I am being attacked.. and defending hinduism... so.. it is one of those kind of chats...
Girl_from_Finland: well, I must be taking my leave of you for now. yes,,i will read that and give you my honest response to it! :) shubh ratri...:)
Sitaram: bye bye
Sitaram: good evening
Girl_from_Finland: :)
Sitaram: right.. that is hindi
Sitaram: im guessing.. I kknow ratri is night
Girl_from_Finland: I am learning...slowly...but I am learning
Girl_from_Finland: yes..hindi
Sitaram: and shubh must be.. good??
Girl_from_Finland: yes..
Sitaram: shiva ratri is a feast... holy day.. night of shiva
Sitaram: and nowa ratri.. is nine nights.. another set of holy days
Sitaram: ok.. bye bye
Sitaram: looking forward to that feedback
Girl_from_Finland: smile..cool,,i will talk to you later...
Sitaram: bye
Girl_from_Finland: ram ram...bye bye
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