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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
(12-17-98)
Zealous4him: Buddhaand Muhammed never claimed to be god
SHADOWOFCHRIST: He says I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE and also saying that all others are thieves and robbers???
Atimco: Pagan, one can only be right with God, through Christ
Pagan_Playgirl: Many paths go uop the mountain and they all make it eventually
Om_Namah_Shivaya: .The past 2000 years shows that Christian and Islamic peoples are no more moral or ethical or loving or peaceful that Hindus/ Buddhist. In light of German Jewish Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, conquests of North & So. American Indians, the rise of Communism, the African slave trade, witch burnings, and Islamic conquests... Christian and Islamic peoples are considerably less nice than Hindu and Buddhist peoples.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: . India gave refuge in 180 B.C. to Jews fleeing Antiochus Epiphanes.. the Jews were well received, are in Bombay to this day.. and there is no history of anti-semitism in India.
Sophia_Journey: Zealous: I know lots of Christians who don't think Jesus claimed to be God either. They believe that others claimed he was God.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: Since Hinduism and Buddhism were well established during the lifetime of Jesus... and since Jesus is believed to be God, and therefore, omniscient, knowing all future events, then why is there not one single mention of Buddhism or Hinduism ... or their alleged falsehood... in any of the Gospels... since there is much mention and warning of false teachers, and deception in the last times?
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous. Neither did Christ, IMHO...I think his disciples did it to get people to join them...even Buddha had to tell his followers he WASN'T a deity, which Christ wasn;rt so successful in doing
Atimco: The good we do is not what makes us acceptable to God...
Zealous4him: sophia, then they are counterfeit Christians
Om_Namah_Shivaya: .Since God has Omniscient foreknowledge of all future events, if TRUE DOCTRINE were so important, then... God, foreknowing the various disputes regarding Trinity, or Christ's Divinity, or Purgatory, or Transubstantiation... God would have inspired additional, more detailed scriptural verses, to elimnate doubts and disputes on key doctrines.
Pagan_Playgirl: Atimco>>If there is only one path then there is only one person in heaven because we all follow sepaarte paths
Om_Namah_Shivaya: ..Worship of God, under threat of eternal torment for failure to believe, or worship, is analogous to romance at gun-point..... its called RAPE. It violates the free-will. And convenants or contracts agreed to under such duress are null and void under most systems of jurisprudence.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: .If God is everywhere present, then he must be present in the heart of satan...but if satan has God in his heart, then satan cant be all bad... but if satan doesnt have God in his heart... then God is not omnipresent.
Zealous4him: Om., cant pick and choose a god that fits your lifestyle, either bow to the true God, or dont
Nightsword2: My view of the Bible was simply un-interpreted..I read the bible as I would a newspaper...with an open mind and through the filter of concious , rational thought.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: If God is eternal and unchanging...then what does it mean when the Old Testament says that God becomes ANGRY, or REGRETS (for it is written that God REGRETTED making Saul king), or that God forgives... since REGRET, ANGER, FORGIVENESS... all imply CHANGE AND TEMPORALITY.
Pagan_Playgirl: Atim>>But they do not al, believe the exact same things, do they? Manty paths are similar, but no two exactly alike'
Om_Namah_Shivaya: If God is complete and perfect...then He had no need to create the universe... but that means He performed a senseless and purposeless act... which detracts from God's Wisdom... but... if God DID have a purpose, a potive for creation... then that means God LACKED something... and was therefore not always complete and perfect.
Zealous4him: girl, unless you become a sheep, a follower of Jesus, you will NEVER get to heaven, that what the bible says, not me
Boshfellow: Gods ulitimate goal is to realize himself fully, through us
Blasphemic: Nightword2...I took my bible to work one night and read the first 10 pages and was shocked to see all the obvious contradictions and pregudices in it
Om_Namah_Shivaya: I do not care to worship a god which resembles the god that the Judeao-Christian-Islamic West envisions, tormenting souls for eternity with no hope of reform. Worshiping such a god, under threat of punishment, would compromise my basic human dignity..I would prefer enternal torment from such a god...thant to worship it for the paultry pleasures of such a vindictive god's paradise.
Atimco: Om_ the God of the Bible does not torment people for eternity
NasaBorg69: Om, the Jewish view of the afterlife isn't the same as the Christian view of the afterlife
Sophia_Journey: Zealous: quote me a verse that says you must believe that Jesus is the son of God in order to go to heaven.
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>Im not a sheep. I am human, I was given free will, and I think for myself. God didn't want drones, I don't think
Om_Namah_Shivaya: yes... the unrighteous are simply destroyed... cease to exist
Zealous4him: The god of the bible DOES torment people for eternity, that is why it is imperative to humble yourself before him.....the solution is not denial
Om_Namah_Shivaya: the righteous dwell with God forever.. far more reasonalble concept
Atimco: The unrepentant are simply destroyed
NasaBorg69: Om, um , that's not necessarily true ... Jews have differing opinions on this
Nightsword2: No, truth isn't relative...and the truth is, that Jesus the Messih, and Moses didn't exsist as we read in the bible.
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>Satan is an embodiment of your fears used to blame your sins upon so you do not have to taske responsibility for them
Om_Namah_Shivaya: Judaism is far more reasonable than Christianity
Om_Namah_Shivaya: well. that is what one Rabbi told me... when I asked
Bijooo: Om_Namah_Shiva:I am not a theist - i'm agnostic.Firstly,God's omnipresence does not mean what you interpret to mean.Secondly, all written documents are subject to different interpretation , so sending more down would not remove this
Atimco: Om_ I bet you never encountered true christianity
Atimco: I was baptized greek orthodox christian at age 23.. and entered a monastery for 2 years.. and... after leaving wihout taking vows.. remained a very active layperson for 15 more years...
Atimco: do you think you experienced true christianity
Atimco: im age 50 now.. and I have made my decisions in life.. so.. you need not fret or trouble yourself . thinking you must come up with a good argument or reply.. but.. I just thought I would respond....
Atimco: if I were ever to desire to be christian again... I can definitely say that greek orthodox seemed more true and internally consistent that roman catholic.. which in turn seemed (the RCC) more true and internally consitent that Luther and Calvin .. who in turn seem far more true and internally consistant than what one finds today amongst protestants...
_Shadowstar: Paganism is more reasonable than any!
Zealous4him: typical satanic type thinking.....everything revolves around what I think....what does God think?
Sophia_Journey: John 3:17-18 says that the punishment IS that we love the darkness, it doesn't say that we are punished FOR loving darkness
Blasphemic: atheism is the only thing that makes any rational sense.
Atimco: The hellfire and brimostone is what completely destroys
Om_Namah_Shivaya: who are you to say what it means bijoo.. you are no better or smarter than anyone else... and that is what many theologians of many religions over many centuries say....
NasaBorg69: Om, well I think Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox (and Chasidic even) differ somewhat on it
Zealous4him: bible talks more about hell that it does about heaven
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous>>Again, I take full use of my free wikll. I have foubnd what isdtruth to me, and truith is relative to the individual becsuse it is infinite.
Nightsword2: Truth cannot be relative, but I can be fallacious in my perception of truth....this is my religious creed and my general mission statement in life is to find the facts with no personal or ethical bias.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: this stuff isnt a popularity contest anyway... its what you say in your heart.. it is between you and God.. ultimately.. and no one else.. and you must answer for your choices.. but no one can prove a corner on the absolute truth market
_Shadowstar: There is no true way.
Pagan_Playgirl: Shadowstar>>All beliefs are reasonable..it's the followres that mess them up..ther eare fundametnapagans, too
SHADOWWALKERR: Truth is relative in human perspective.
Zealous4him: typical; satanic type thinking ....everything revolves around me, what 'I' think.......'I' determine what is true.......setting oneself on the throne and kicking God off the throne will be your downfall
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>Yeah, to scare people into pretending to love God....fear does not beget love
Bijooo:
Om_Namah_Shivaya::I don't mean to start an argumnet but the same comments also apply to you.Since what you wrote implied that you were somone to say what it means
Boshfellow: zelous, if god is within you, why not determine your own truth?
Zealous4him: I didnt write the bible,.....i dont try to throw fear into people,....i let the bible speak for itself
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>That's a cop-out...whatever diesn't agree with MY beliefs is evil and satanic....excuses, exzcsauses
Om_Namah_Shivaya: a compulsion to convert others... reveals a fundamental lack of faith and self doubt... the delusion that God needs YOU... to save others.. is an insult to Gods majesty... and reveals the belief that Gods creation is somehow imperfect
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>And I interpret it differently than you do...you are interpreting it literally
Nightsword2: But one must try to get to the real facts....because truth is as you say...relative.....And God, as a concept is simply that...a concept...no one has seen god...or smelled him or tasted god....so, who's right?
Zealous4him: sophia, the relativism is not going to cut it
Shadowstar: Tasting God...ewwww.
Pagan_Playgirl: Shadow.>That's the kind that bashes Catholics because of the Inquisition
Zealous4him: relativism is the sign of a desperate person
Boshfellow: Your Reality is a manifestation of lyour innermost thoughts
Zealous4him: what better way to disguise an unwillingness to disobey god that to call upon relativism
Sophia_Journey: Zealous: have you studied the languages the Bible was written in? have you studied the people who wrote it? have you studied all the history involved?
SHADOWWALKERR: Many have seen Him tasted Him and felt Him...they accept this as hard fact and hrad truth...to their relativity and perspetion He is quite real.
Miss_Queen_of_Everything: so what blas...........give it up there are to many Christians in the world....just accept them....
Boshfellow: if you dwell on fear, you world will be a ferful one
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>That's another cop-out..I;m hardly desperate
Sophia_Journey: 'sal: we can't know for sure, but I don't think so
Bijooo:
Zealous4him::you state your own opinions e.g. 'typical satanic thinking' without any evidence that they are tru
Zealous4him: bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom
Nightsword2: Okay...so Merry has actually had a religious experience while tasting fettucini alfredo...that's a start!
Pagan_Playgirl: An unwillingness to disobey God? That sounds...odd.....
Bijooo: Zealous:are you just trying to scare us?
Zealous4him: how could I scare you...i didnt write the bible
Blasphemic: Miss...Christianity is in decline
MerryPagan: there is actually no biological reason that we die
Zealous4him: if you are scared, its the bible that scares you
SHADOWWALKERR: It is inconclusive to you and to me...but further study would be needed from her and from us.
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>If I was sared I'd be Christian
Random_self: Actually I get along real well with my bible. Zealous scares me
MerryPagan: xtians ae taught to fear their god
Bijooo: Zealous: so you are trying to scare us into converting to Christianity
Zealous4him: and, you should be scared, I might add, unless of course you repent and embrace Jesus Christ, and that offer is available to every perosn
Random_self: I'm not scared. Fear is a sin in my belief.
Blasphemic: Christianity is starting to become a 4-letter word
Nightsword2: Perhaps he is...but I am not afraid of his comments, because I am ignorant as to the true nature of god..or whether he exsists at all.
SHADOWWALKERR: The ancient Greek has duel meaning.
Zealous4him: I dont have the ability to scare anybody,....but God does
Bijooo: The same tactics are used by Muslims
Atimco: no one can know the truth unless the Father calls them
Random_self: God doesn't scare me.
MerryPagan: xtians ae taught to fear their god, but he's supposed to be all loving. Go figure
Om_Namah_Shivaya: sick twisted christians with their bigotry and persecutions are the only thing which scares me.. they murdered 6 million Jews in Germany.. that was a Christian Nations doings.. fueled by the viscious anti-semitic writings of Martin Luther of the Reformation
Atimco: He is not calling everyone now!
SHADOWWALKERR: There is no need to fear....that is the basic issue.
Zealous4him: ignorance will not be a good exzcuse come judgment day
Bijooo: scaring people to 'fear the fire whose fule is men and stones'
MerryPagan: is choking on God
Om_Namah_Shivaya: .The past 2000 years shows that Christian and Islamic peoples are no more moral or ethical or loving or peaceful that Hindus/ Buddhist. In light of German Jewish Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, conquests of North & So. American Indians, the rise of Communism, the African slave trade, witch burnings, and Islamic conquests... Christian and Islamic peoples are considerably less nice than Hindu and Buddhist peoples.
Random_self: I'm not ignorant
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>I was never happy or comfortable as a Christian..so you say it is right to choose a path that does not fit me just because you say I should?
Miss_Queen_of_Everything: I dont fear God.....he is my Father.....
Sophia_Journey: we're all ignorant
Blasphemic: god is a he
Random_self: I don't believe in god
Pagan_Playgirl: Merry>>SAgain, not all Xuians are taught that
salomanl: I think 12 million christians were killed by the Germans during ww2
Zealous4him: girl, you cant be a christian and then not be a christian, if you are a chirstian, you will always be a christian
Blasphemic: my God is neuter
MerryPagan: Blas- why would god be male?
_Shadowstar: What kind of loving father sends his children to hell...
Om_Namah_Shivaya: those germans were all baptized christians....
Pagan_Playgirl: YE GODS, people! NOT ALL CHRISTIANSARE ALIKE!!!!!!!! Quit geenralizing!
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and the protestant reformation was started in German by Martin Luther
Bijooo: Om_Namah_shivay:this is true however the BJP's, or indian governments treatment of muslims in modern times leaves a lot to be desired
Nightsword2: And yes, I will admit that I am ignorant....simply because I haven't read every doctrine....I haven't had a true spiritual experience...and God as an entity...hasn't spoken to me.
Random_self: So much of Chrstian theology is just self-referential rhetoric.
salomanl: I think that the SS Germans killed any body
Zealous4him: you will have an opportunity to tell that to God someday
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>Bull-farkin-sheeit. I'm not as Christian, and no one can say I am a Christian, because the fundamental of Christianity is that Christ was the saviour and I don';t buy it!
SHADOWWALKERR: That does not imply ignorance Night just inexperience in a specific area...have you ever flown the Shuttle?
Boshfellow: that makes no sense because my statement denies the existence of right and wrong
Pagan_Playgirl: Merry>>Just don't become a fundamentapagan or you will be no better than the people you would clkaim to dislike
Om_Namah_Shivaya: yes.. but.. hinduism and buddhism... do not make the false claims that Paul makes in Romans.. about how the religion willl TRANSFORM people.. and make them right with God...
Zealous4him: bosh, exactly
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>If I'm supposoed to talk to God then why am I talking to you, peon?
Atimco: Pagan, you are right, you are not a christian
Sophia_Journey: Merry, yes, but I'm really ticked off, so I'm trying to keep quiet for a bit till I calm down.
salomanl: You can't blame a certain religion for acts commited by certain groups of people
Blasphemic: why is the vatican so rich?
Atimco: Om_ it is Christ who transforms
Zealous4him: yeh, why are you taking to me
Pagan_Playgirl: salo>>Very true
Miss_Queen_of_Everything: I dont think anyone dies an athiest Blas
Boshfellow: There is only what works and what doesn't work. Killing doesn't work
Bijooo: Om_Namah_shivay:yes I agree with you there
Om_Namah_Shivaya: my point is not that Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims are any better than Christians.. simply that Christians are just as bad.. if not worse.. than anyone else...
Zealous4him: I wont do you any good come judgment day
Miss_Queen_of_Everything: you will change your mind when the time comes
Om_Namah_Shivaya: so... is the Pope of Rome a Christian????????
Bijooo: Zealous:trying to scare us again..
Atimco: no he is not
Zealous4him: yes, christians are sinful like everyone else, the difference is christians are forgiven
_Shadowstar: Zealous, your mind is more shut than Fort Knox. If you are so comfortable in your bigotry, have fun.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: well.. Jesus didnt do a very good job with the Pope...now did he....
salomanl: I'm not a christain, but the Pope should be
Sophia_Journey: thinks that if judgement day comes, most Christians will be very surprised
Om_Namah_Shivaya: you mean the pope doesnt confess jesus as god and saviour?
Om_Namah_Shivaya: you mean that is not all which is necessary for salvation????
Zealous4him: jesus was very intolerant of other views, would you expect less from his followers?
Om_Namah_Shivaya: thats what you protestants are always preaching....
Pagan_Playgirl: Pope is Christjan because Catholcism is one of the two roots of all Christian denominatyions
Random_self: Our hell is hotter than your hell...!
Zealous4him: when did I say I was better, I am forgiven though
salomanl: I don't know anything about the Catholic religion
Zealous4him: pope is not christian
_Shadowstar: Look who wrote the Bible! Bunch of narrowminded white men...
Atimco: The pope and the Catholic church teach things diametrically contrary to the bible
Om_Namah_Shivaya: how about Bill Clinton.... is Bill Clinton a Christian?????
Zealous4him: big difference between christian and catholic
Pagan_Playgirl: Zealous.>Yes, he is..Catholics are Christians, too..get over it
Miss_Queen_of_Everything: zealous........that was rude.....of course he is Christian
Atimco: No Pagan
Zealous4him: Jesus said I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life that is very narrow
Pagan_Playgirl: All Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic
SHADOWWALKERR: Yes Zealous and I wonder if you know that differnece?
Zealous4him: is a former cathlic
Pagan_Playgirl: Atim>>You ain't God, you can't say who is true and whoi isn;'rt Reverend1692 is a former Mormon.
Sophia_Journey: is really glad that Zealous is able to know the hearts of people s/he's never met and decide if they are Christian
Om_Namah_Shivaya: if Catholicism is so FALSE... how come there are 1 billion Roman Catholics.. (as of 1994 census).. and only 700 million non catholic christian denominations??????
_Shadowstar: It shows, Zealous.
Atimco: Catholic are not christians, generally speaking
SHADOWWALKERR: Jesus was speaking as Christ or Christ through Him....what does that tell you?
Om_Namah_Shivaya: .Since God has Omniscient foreknowledge of all future events, if TRUE DOCTRINE were so important, then... God, foreknowing the various disputes regarding Trinity, or Christ's Divinity, or Purgatory, or Transubstantiation... God would have inspired additional, more detailed scriptural verses, to elimnate doubts and disputes on key doctrines.
Zealous4him: dont be decieved by the outward apperaranc eof Catholics
Random_self: Actually, way truth and light are linguistic parallels to other primary religions at the time, which also claimed to the the one way
Atimco: Jesus said his flock is a little flock
SHADOWWALKERR: One river many tributaries.
salomanl: Remember, when the Maccabees cleaned up the temple after the Greeks, and we celebrated hanukah
Zealous4him: well, ive got to go now
Zealous4him: you are now accountable for what you have heard
Atimco: I was showing that numbers don't matter
Om_Namah_Shivaya: since God had foreknowledge of the Papacy.. when the verses of the New Testament were divinely inspired by the holy spirit... how come no explicit warning about papal errors
Pagan_Playgirl: Atim>>A Christian believes in Christ as saviour, no? Then Catho,ics are Christian
Boshfellow: Om I like your ideas
Atimco: A christian is someone who has Christ living in them
SHADOWWALKERR: Om He isn't bound to forkjnowledge.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: thanks bosh.... some people do....
Bijooo: Om_Namh_shivayah:once again my point about different interpretations applies again
Sophia_Journey: I believe a Christian is one who believes that the life of Christ is a path to peace
Boshfellow: HaveYOU read conversations with god
salomanl: Look people, none of us are saints, so let's be civil to others
Pagan_Playgirl: Atim>>Not last I cvhecked....A Christujan is someone who believs in Christ as saviour..the rest is deatiaisl
Om_Namah_Shivaya: no reasonably religion or theology says god is bound by foreknowledge.. but they dont deny gods ability to possess such foreknowledge.... nor does such foreknowledge rob individual beings of free-will
Atimco: Pagan, which scripture gives you that definition of a christian?
SHADOWWALKERR: Pagan....a Christian is one that is connected to God and feels for that connection as best they can.
Pagan_Playgirl: Atim>>*shrugs* I was talking aboiut a dictionary
Om_Namah_Shivaya: click here to visit my website... if you like such ideas => http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/3425/index.html
_Shadowstar: So I'm Christian? We have a connection too...
Atimco: I am using the biblical definition of a christian
SHADOWWALKERR: The Bible has hundreds of diffinitions of Christian.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: st james.. in his epistle... says True religion is SIMPLY THIS.. to visit widows and orphans in their afflictions.. and to remain unspotted from the world...
SHADOWWALKERR: Om that is a mark of the path....to care that is the most important issue.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: shadow walker .. are you a psalm 23 fan.. or are you thinking of a different shadow?
SHADOWWALKERR: I love that Psalm.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: yea though I walk in the valley of the shadow of death
Om_Namah_Shivaya: so.. is that why you choose the name
SHADOWWALKER
SHADOWWALKERR: I have been there many times.
Boshfellow: hey pagan, how do you express you spirituality
Bijooo:
SHADOWOFCHRIST:: I mean that you take the bible literally
SHADOWOFCHRIST: then YEs I am a fundie and proud of it!!!!!
Bijooo:
SHADOWOFCHRIST::that you beleive the creation account literally for example
Boshfellow: let us all pray for peace
salomanl: I would really like to know the difference between a chritian and a Jew
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and
Bijooo:... is the french word for jewel or jem.. but.. it is also a term of affection...
Om_Namah_Shivaya: what on earth do people mean when they say they are full gospel...
SHADOWWALKERR: You can infact have many fundamental views on many subjects and still be seen primarily as a liberal. Lord_Herms Moses was Jewish
Pagan_Playgirl: Is the gospel half-full or half-empty?
Bijooo: #
SHADOWWALKER:the dictionary definition might be but that is what I mean when I use the word 'fundamentalist'
SHADOWWALKERR: Gospel + Truth....Full+ fullness therein.
salomanl: Moses was a high priest in Egypt
Om_Namah_Shivaya: id also like to know what on earth it means to choose Jesus as your PERSONAL SAVIOUR'.. whever on earth might one mean by an impersonal saviour
SHADOWOFCHRIST: I am Love Christ and serve him
SHADOWWALKERR: Savior is obvious,
salomanl: talk is cheap
SHADOWWALKERR: Christ and Jesus are now trnsecned as one.
SHADOWWALKERR: Next Question....smiles.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: it never ceases to astound me how clever christians are at cooking up half-baked explanations for any cock-a-maimey belief or practice that one particular sect out of the 1500 happens to have.... its really mind-boggling... Dis_Traught The oppisite of Clinton
_Shadowstar: That's fine. I don't accept the concept of sin...
Boshfellow: Om do yu go to the movies Dis_Traught sin is a word that represents what the majority believes is wrong
SHADOWOFCHRIST: no sex isnt Evil at all but doing it the way God did not intyend it is
Pagan_Playgirl: is a 20 year old virgin, but not for lack of trying...*sigh*
Om_Namah_Shivaya: one day a christian in chat was ranting and raving about having a personal RELATIONSHIP with Jesus... so when I pointed out that such a term or concept as personal relationship... is no where mentioned in scriptures.. to my knowledge... he quoted the verse where Jesus says... if you do as I say.. you will be my friends... so I said... OH GREAT.. what kind of friendship is that???
salomanl: We are punished by our sins, not for our sins - there's a difference
SHADOWOFCHRIST: im 21 and wish I were still a virgin seeing as how my future wife will probably be a virgin Dis_Traught TRhe morallity of the whole thing is what gets me
_Shadowstar: My life mate was a virgin when I met him. But it wasn't through a misguided sense of wrong...He was shy.
SHADOWWALKERR: Rightness is the key. Stick to the search there is greater reward in the end.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: first off I am not misguided, and I say that because I will only marry a woman of God
Scooter78413: he is consistant
Om_Namah_Shivaya: Jesus and Paul seem to praise celibacy... so.. if you are serious about religion.. why not remain celebate????
Random_self: I won't take up your time with a PM, but I wanted to say that you are one of the few people I have met throughout all this chatting who is consistently intelligent, rational, harmonius and ...uh, truthful (l.ol)
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Om because that is somthing god either does or does not put in your heart
ImNotErik: Jesus said NOTHING...not a single word about celibacy.
SHADOWWALKERR: Om read further.....both do not say they are against marriage...they just see the balance that is all.
Random_self: why thank you... I am honored greatly by your compliment...
Random_self: It's an honour to know you. *bows*
Om_Namah_Shivaya: ha ha ha... protestants are so good at equivocating... and juggling the verses to have their cake and eat it....
Om_Namah_Shivaya: I dont see to many protestants.. selling everything.. giving to the poor.. vowing celibacy.. taking up their CROSS .. and following Jesus.. although I DO see lots of Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox doing that very thing....
SHADOWWALKERR: As are any other walk of life. You do not have to be protestant to use interpritaiotn.
Giant_Annoying_Moth: We ought to hire a lone sociopath to go in and kill saddam
SHADOWWALKERR: And just as many Roman Catholics And Eastern Orthidox that do not.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: a LONE sociopath.. why not a gregarious, out-going, fun-loving, amiable socio-path.....??
SHADOWOFCHRIST: shadow that do not what???? giant_annoying_moth Namah, LOL
ImNotErik: A gregarious fun loving sociopath would be missed.
SHADOWWALKERR: Do as Om suggest and be more giving ans caring..He is generalizing....
SHADOWOFCHRIST: I have found the Orthodox to be AWESOME!!!
SHADOWWALKERR: I have no issue with that . I have met many and many of those good people...I have met many ...and many of those full of conciet and predjudice...we are all human.
Random_self: for me to reach one or two or three people.. with my thoughts... which is all I ever expect... is deeply gratifying.. and means that I have not spent my life totally in vain... so thank you once again for your kind words..
SHADOWOFCHRIST: shadow it goes to show the body of christ isnt a church or denimination
SHADOWWALKERR: Christians this Hindus that.
Random_self: Thank you again for sharing them.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: I feel the body of christ are the sincere in and out of the churchers
SHADOWWALKERR: Sincerity is an issue....the body is actually all that are connected.
SHADOWWALKERR: That is why I dislike it when others say Catholic and mean Roman Catholic.
SHADOWWALKERR: Catholic is a broad term.
SHADOWWALKERR: Catholic means Universal.
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: I have a technical question
SHADOWOFCHRIST: I personally do not agree with either the consept of the Trinity or eternal Damnation
SHADOWWALKERR: The concept of the Trinity is an easy one. \
SHADOWWALKERR: Eternal is another issue.
SHADOWWALKERR: Damnation is another easy one.
SHADOWWALKERR: Which should I start with? s,iles.
SHADOWWALKERR: smiles.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: the third word of Genesis in Hebrew.... ELOHIM.. is PLURAL.. it means GODS... it is a very EASY CONCEPT....
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Well I believe Jesus is the father, rather than God being three persons I believe scripture teaches God as ONE person with three ways of revealing himself to Us
Om_Namah_Shivaya: plural like Cheroubim and Seraphim....
Om_Namah_Shivaya: father son and spirit... is no more monotheistic or polytheistic than bramha vishnu shiva...
SHADOWWALKERR: Jesus is All Man...the second Adam...He is one of the hardest concepts, as such, to understand.
SHADOWWALKERR: Christ is another issue.
salomanl: random - I think elohim is hebrew for Gods
Boshfellow: So pain is only good in context of sex
Random_self: Om--thanks. :-)
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Om but biblically elohim is mostly used as singular by using it with words like He and Him
SHADOWWALKERR: Elohiem....We the One.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: more half-baked justifications and sophistries and word jugglery
imlatas should be working on my Theology paper... instead, here I am, reading this
Om_Namah_Shivaya: whatever floats your boat... or ark...
SHADOWWALKERR: So Shadow we have now Creator=God...Christ =Connection.
imlatas lol om
Bijooo: what are you talkingma bout tatoo's for?
SHADOWOFCHRIST: shadow but scripture says through Christ all that is was made
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Has 7 tattoos
SHADOWWALKERR: Yes...in temporal conntext....that is Connection.
SHADOWWALKERR: To the Creator.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: not temporal context it is a statement period it links him as being the father
ImNotErik: Wants a talking tattoo.
SHADOWWALKERR: It links Him as part of the Creator....Connection to us.
SHADOWWALKERR: Remove all that is in existance.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: I disagree God is One that is clear in scripture jesus is God that also is clear
Om_Namah_Shivaya: last week.. someone was in religion chat saying that Jesus had a tatoo.. because in the Book of Revelations.. it says that Jesus appears on a white horse.. with a sword.. called faithful and true.. with someting inscribed on their thigh (which they interpreted as a tattoo)
SHADOWWALKERR: You will go back to the beginning.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: I think its revelations ch 19... I cant remember now
SHADOWWALKERR: Actually that is not clear...he never calls himself God...Only Son of Man.
Chris20pher: you know what I find amusing?
_SALT_of_the_EARTH:
SHADOWWALKER.....it can be found in scripture
SHADOWWALKERR: Then action.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: when Thomas exclaims...My Lord and my God... Jesus doesnt correct him...
SHADOWWALKERR: No it can't!
SHADOWWALKERR: Not in any scripture.
Bijooo: Om_Namay:Shivay:it's amazing how christians use the bible to justify transient cultural phenonema ...tatoos....eugenics etc....
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: I will show you
SHADOWWALKERR: It can be implied only thorugh context.
SHADOWWALKERR: Do so.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: jesus also says in prayer of Gesthemene ...the Father and I are one...
Chris20pher: that people actually argue over something as stupid as religion
Bijooo: Om:racial segregation...women 's liberation
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Jesus said I AM He in context to the father that is pretty clear
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and elsewhere Jesus says.. no one has seen the father at any time.. he who sees me sees the father
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: Jesus never says it directly, but the Pharisees did
SHADOWWALKERR: As we and The father are One Unified......not nesscesaarliy One Htnig....who was he praying to Himself?
Chris20pher: but I suppose it gives you all something to do to pass the time
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and jesus also says I was present and saw satan fall from heaven like lightening...... which suggests pre-eternality...
SHADOWWALKERR: He said .....before Abraham and Issac...I am.......that is Trinity...our discussion...He was then speaking as Christ...Not Man.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and somewhere in the epistles.. paul says that jesus is ... in the form of God.... I think
SHADOWOFCHRIST: all I know is this throughout the book of John jesus in many ways calls himself the father
SHADOWWALKERR: That was as Christ.....
SHADOWWALKERR: There is a liniage to Jesus the man.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: o you mean only the humanity of christ Shadow?????
Om_Namah_Shivaya: aha.. more word games..ehh
SHADOWWALKERR: There is not as disticnt a one to Christ.
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
Om_Namah_Shivaya: sort of like biblical scrabble...
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
SHADOWWALKERR: Now Transcended as one.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: in his humanity he is fully human in his divinity he is the father in the flesh
Bijooo: SHADOWWLKER:you are assuming that all references to the relationship between jesus,God and the holy spirit are meant to be consistent
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: Where is it that Jesus said I and the Father are one?
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
MrMaris: ANYONE WHO WANTS TO DISCUSS THE BAHA'I FAITH, PLEASE PM ME
Bijooo: bestofall:how do you know that Allah said that?
Om_Namah_Shivaya: funny phrase... salt of the earth... as if salt comes from any other place....
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
SHADOWOFCHRIST: yes but the christ as you call it is the Father
Bestofall_lol: But Allah said Follow Mohammad and youl'll become a perfect human being
Bestofall_lol: Allah is unseen
Bijooo: _Salt_ofTHE_EARTH:what rubbish!!!!!!1
SHADOWWALKERR: No Christ also made reference to father outside opf self that is my point....He is Connection to and of Father.
ImNotErik: Allah is Mohammeds god.
Scooter78413: was she in earlier in the day
MrMaris: Allah in Arabic means God
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: ALLAH is the name of the moon god
SHADOWOFCHRIST: o really and where is that???? and how do you know when jesus the man and jesus the God speaks????
MrMaris: bestofall: What do you understand by ' following Muhammad' ?
Scooter78413: I finally got on.........our server was vandalized last night and all the computer lines were slashed
SHADOWWALKERR: That takes connection as well......remember that Christ says...I will send a teaher that will carry on for me...It will fill you and let you see the truth.
Scooter78413: I know, I was up at 06:30 and tried to get on
Om_Namah_Shivaya: but.. in the Fifth Surah of the Glorious Koran... verse 48.. Allah If I had wanted to... I could have created all people as ONE RELIGION.. but for MY OWN PURPOSES.. I created people as DIFFERENT RELIGIONS.. so if you must COMPETE with one another.. compete in doing GOOD WORKS... and when you return to Me.. I will explain the REASONS FOR THE DIFFERENCES (in Religions)
Bijooo: SALT_OF_THE_EARTH:that's like saying that jesus christ is just the greek trinity in disguise
SHADOWWALKERR: Some places are easier than others.
SHADOWOFCHRIST: He speaks of His holy spirit there
Bestofall_lol: tmamaris : there are 2 ways Good And BAD so you choose which one and all the goodness and the painee already been describe in the koran
SHADOWWALKERR: Yes...The Holy spirit/...Number Three.
SHADOWWALKERR: Trinity is quiet logical.
Om_Namah_Shivaya: so.. that seems a pretty clear cut indication that it is THE WILL OF ALLAH that there be Hindus and BUddhists and Jews and Christians.... and Sikhs.. as well as Muslims
SHADOWOFCHRIST: Yes but shadow if the divinity within christ is not the father then there are 2 gods
MrMaris: Om_Namah: that was a great verse of the Quran!!!
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and in Surah 2 verse 253... it says... There shall be NO COMPULSION in matters of Religion...
SHADOWWALKERR: No.....it is Connection of Father...an aspect of Him...He even talks to it...' We shall make of us Man...that He will serve Us and be of sound Faith.
ImNotErik: There were Hindus a nd Buddhists and Christians LONG before Mohammed or Allah were ever thought of. Jon_Batchelder there is no god to some people
MrMaris: All the religions come from the same One, Unknowable Essence, Who is God , the All Merciful!
Random_self: Whoa, Om, you rock my world
SHADOWWALKERR: Father Son , Holy Ghost.
Bestofall_lol: but who CREATED ALLAH?
Om_Namah_Shivaya: and... furthermore .. one of the 99 Names of Allah... is Deceiver.. and it is written that if a person with his free will.. refuses to submit to Islam... Allah.. casts that person even deeper into their non-Islamic beliefs.. so again. this is the will of Allah
MrMaris: God is also the Eternal Being, nobody created Him!
Bestofall_lol: YES EYTERNAL ... correct .... so why we need to worship moon
Bestofall_lol: worship Jesus
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: they excavated idols of the moon god in ancient islam temples in the 1950's
Chris20pher: why is it that something had to create the universe but nothing had to create god?
SHADOWWALKERR: Chris because He is Creator.
MrMaris: The Universe is not eternal
__SILVERMOONBEAMS__: Best why worship jesus if I don't belive him ?
MrMaris: God is, though
MrMaris: Allah is the God of everything
__SILVERMOONBEAMS__: I worship the all now
Om_Namah_Shivaya: King Solomon.. writes in I think Ecclesiates or Proverbs... God has put the IMAGE OF ETERNITY into the hearts of men.. and yet NOONE CAN SEE to the beginning or the end of a matter
Chris20pher: you are all arguing over god....but can one of you tell me what God is?
Bestofall_lol: Muhammad teaching is specific
MrMaris: God has also veiled Himself from us
Chris20pher: let's figure out who God is first, or what the name means
SHADOWWALKERR: Yes Chris...The All.
__GrayMystic__ we all have ideas of God... but I would be willing to bet they all fall short
Chris20pher: can any of you tell me what the term God means?
ImNotErik: Is just another of the millions of imaginary gods and supernatural beings people have worshipped over the centuries.
ImNotErik: Allah...that is.
Bestofall_lol: God by definition is Allah
MrMaris: Only the Teachings of the Messengers of God can give us a picture of what God is
SHADOWWALKERR: God....is ancient in scope and most often defines....All, Or everything.
Chris20pher: okay, what is allah?
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: mohammed had to gather followers....so he took a tribe's moon god and made it the one god for those people to worship, so that they would follow him
SHADOWWALKERR: In potential and scope.
ImNotErik: Allah is just another of the millions of imaginary gods and supernatural beings people have worshipped over the centuries.
MrMaris: Everything else we imagine ourselves is just a fruit of out imagination
Bestofall_lol: The others are Khaleps and messenger
Chris20pher: you know what is so stupid about all religions
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: mohammed had to gather followers....so he took a tribe's moon god and made it the one god for those people to worship, so that they would follow him
Chris20pher: they worship something that they don't know
MrMaris: Mohammed abolished idolatry
SHADOWWALKERR: Relgion isn't stupid.....as the raod to Nevada isn't stupid it is just a raod.
Chris20pher: nobody in here can tell me what God, Allah, or any other supernatural being is
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: sure he did
MrMaris:
Bestofall_lol: But the other compares it with Other Object or other beings which is helpless
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: Mohammed had to gather followers....so he took a tribe's moon god and made it the one god for those people to worship, so that they would follow him
ImNotErik: Thinks it's wrong to steal someone elses god.
SHADOWWALKERR: I just did....you do not recognize possibilty and probablity.
_SALT_of_the_EARTH: mohammed had to gather followers....so he took a tribe's moon god and made it the one god for those people to worship, so that they would follow him
Om_Namah_Shivaya: aha... christopher.. but something keeps drawing you to things like religion chat... like a moth to a flame....
SHADOWWALKERR: If you ask a question read the answer.
Chris20pher: okay, then tell me what god is
Bestofall_lol: God is Allah
SHADOWWALKERR: The All. sigmund45 yes sophia I didn't respond to any of my e-mails yet though
ImNotErik: Allah is just another of the millions of imaginary gods and supernatural beings people have worshipped over the centuries.
Bestofall_lol: no not Imaginary ... Allah is absolute
SHADOWWALKERR: It is just that The All. All of All That is or has potential to be. sigmund45 the dangerous area was amusing it had a couple people asking for money, not any worse than where I went to school in a small town
Chris20pher: should I be praying to my feet right now?
ImNotErik: Allah is imaginary.
StrangerInThisWorld: leaves
Chris20pher: please describe God's nature to me Quintdaddy409 peace and love
MrMaris: God exists.
Chris20pher: prove that god exists
ImNotErik: God exists....in your mind.
__XmasMystic__: prove that god doesn't exist
SHADOWWALKERR: I am not All and therefor cannot fully hold All or impart it to you....All is All to you as you see All.
Chris20pher: I don't have to prove that god doesn't exist. You are making a positive assertion which requires substantiation. If you believe in god you should have reasons for doing so, so please tell me how you know that god exists
MrMaris: Chris - you like it the easy way, huh?
SHADOWWALKERR: I know He exists through awareness and validation. poststruc chuckles .. as if accepting god first requires that one prove god's existence?
Chris20pher: do you want me to prove that martians don't exist?
Sophia_Journey: you can only find evidence to support something
SHADOWWALKERR: Then first off I need peramters God is a BIG issue. Ok.?
SHADOWWALKERR: All poof requires peramters.
__XmasMystic__: the big bang
Bestofall_lol: and who create the substance
Chris20pher: you are claiming that god exists, so prove it, don't play with words
Bestofall_lol: that is my prove of existence
SHADOWWALKERR: I am not...i will show you proof....i need to know what I need to show you>
Chris20pher: you need to show me that there is a god
StrangerInThisWorld: For anyone who has an open mind toward the evidence of weather Christ's rose from the dead or not goto http://199.89.250.44/wca/
Capfit: I don't have an open mind about any Christ
ShakerMaker26: Why do you feel you HAVE to prove it, Shadow?
Chris20pher: proof is showing that something exists
ModeusAlzar: but that was what we were arguing about it to begin with
__XmasMystic__: thinks anyone who has felt the holy spirit knows there is god, to the rest it is faith, or lack of
ShakerMaker26: What's your problem with atheists?
Bestofall_lol: What about I think therefore I exist
ImNotErik: Is patiently waiting for some fundie to prove the existance of god. But is not holding his breath.
StrangerInThisWorld: Why guess when evidence suggests taht Christ rose from the dead?
Capfit: I've felt the holy spirit and I wish I never did. Because that was when I knew I was going out of my mind. You tell
Atimco: I am looking back at the dialogues of this morning.. and I saw your comment.. I bet you never experienced true christianity
SHADOWWALKERR: As can others with God....is that proof?
ShakerMaker26: With physics and causal explanations? Don't think so . .
StrangerInThisWorld: I find it quite comical that I submit some proof and you are unwilling to look at it....i know some just refuse to believe...but those that are curious http://199.89.250.44/wca
ImNotErik: Is patiently waiting for some fundie to prove the existance of god. But is not holding his breath.
__XmasMystic__: and do you not have the same free will, and same temptations of power
SHADOWWALKERR: I am trying to ...I need to now what would convince you Chris...whta is proof to you.?
Chris20pher: shoddowwalkerr, I realize your attempt to go around the subject, but I asked you one question which you still have yet to answer
ShakerMaker26: How about empirical sensory perception?
__XmasMystic__: thinks religion is often times just a personal or cultural interpretation
Bestofall_lol: from your food .. digested become energy which transform molecules to produce similar balance between mom trait and dads trait
Capfit: how the hell are any of you going to know the origin of man?
StrangerInThisWorld: For anyone who has an open mind toward the evidence of weather Christ's rose from the dead or not goto http://199.89.250.44/wca/
Chris20pher: if you claim that god exists you should be able to prove it, or show reasons for such a belief
ImNotErik: Is patiently waiting for some fundie to prove the existance of god. But is not holding his breath.
StrangerInThisWorld: For anyone who has an open mind toward the evidence of weather Christ's rose from the dead or not goto http://199.89.250.44/wca/
SHADOWWALKERR: I have answered all your questions...i am not going around but into. You are the avoiding one. WHAT IS PROOF?
Shadowgdss: its called faith, as in any religion
Shadowgdss: who needs proof for what they believe?
__SILVERMOONBEAMS__: everyone including athesits have faith in something
Sophia_Journey: is away (working on my thesis)
Capfit: none of us can prove squat
SHADOWWALKERR: Shadow what is Bekief?
Bestofall_lol: Then The start of the world : Beginning of world creation kosen_rufu well said silver
Chris20pher: I tell you what, since you are so caught up in meanings, why don't you tell me your definition of proof so we can move on
ShakerMaker26: But faith isn't synonymous with religious belief, however
SHADOWWALKERR: Proof is a level of acceptance to the individual having to do with plausabiltiy and probabilty ratios and degrees of perspeption.
__SILVERMOONBEAMS__: I have faith in myself
ModeusAlzar: I wish someone would explain faith to me so I could understand it
ImNotErik: Thinks faith is fine, as long as it is faith in something WORTH having faith in.
Chris20pher: so if you give me a logical reason to believe in god then I will believe
Bestofall_lol: SOmething which we cannot touched but we can feel it existence which created everything in this universe is the MEANING OF ALLAH
__XmasMystic__: better implies judgement.... that is why I don't understand xians trying to save by preaching you are wrong
ImNotErik: Thinks faith is fine, as long as it is faith in something WORTH having faith in.
ModeusAlzar: or make it seem reasonable to suspend my reason and judgement
Shadowgdss: faith is just knowing from within
SHADOWWALKERR: Logic is just a tool to reach proof.
Chris20pher: alright, we'll take your definition, go ahead
Bestofall_lol: ISALM IS ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE OF HOW TO LIVE IN PEACEFUL
Capfit: I have faith in stuff that I see, touch, smell, and all that.
SHADOWWALKERR: Would you like to use logic as well?
Chris20pher: I realize you probably play this boring game of words with most people, but it is doing little more than boring me, so if you are only going to waste more of my time with this useless discourse then tell me so I can leave
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