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(12-10-98)
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.
The more I ask christians... who is christian.. and how you can tell.. and what it means to be christian.. the more I realize what a meaningless word CHRISTIAN is... what a fiction....
ive had people tell me the Pope isnt a Christian... Bill Clinton couldnt POSSIBLY be a Christian... (cause he SINS ...tsk tsk)... and ive even had "christians"... swear up and down that BILLY GRAHAM isnt a christian... so... go figure....
you know.. to become a Muslim.. basically all you have to do is say..."Im a Muslim..."... well there are a few more words that that.. but thats what it all boils down to....
and to become a Buddhism... basically .. all you are doing is saying "Im a Buddhist".. with a few extra words about Dharma and Sangha and Shelter...(refuge)...
but... christian sectarians go ON AND ON AND ON... about who is and isnt christian.. and when someone STOPS being christian.. and when they START UP being christian again....
sangha.. really just means... congregation.. community.. fellowship... with other Believers....
its really the same as what Jesus says... "Wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name..."....
baylah.. what im getting at.. is... if I meet someone in the street.. and they tell me.. "Im a Buddhist".... I just except that.. plain and simple...
i dont ask them if they meditate every day...
i dont ask them what they eat for breakfast lunch and dinner
i dont ask them if they are a Theravadin.. or a Mahayana.. or Pure Land... or Tibetan...
if someone tells me "Im a Jew"... I dont ask to see theiir yarlmulke... or their circumcision... or can they read hebrew.... or.... do they wear one or two tefellin... or say the Shema everyday...
good... grief!!!!... christians are really... a case....
I mean they spend SO MUCH TIME.. worrying about whether someone is DELUDED BY SATAN... DECEIVED BY A FALSE TEACHER... DEceived by a demon an angel of light , masquerading as christ.....
Hindus and Buddhists are tired of the blanket statements that christains make about them...
I was about to say.. see how you feel living in a christian society.. where people constantly accuse you of worshiping the devil.. WHEN HINDU SCRIPTURES DONT MENTION A DEVIL or a permanent eternal hell...
I was about to say that.. then I realized that protestants are constantly calling roman catholics idolators and anti christ followers
its interesting .. the word BIBLE.. never actually appears in the old or new testament... the phrase... "PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Jesus" is not mentioned once... and the word SACRED appears ONLY ONCE.. in the APOCRYPHA... Maccabees.... and the word FAITH only appears TWICE in the entire old testament.. once in Deut ch32 and once in Habbakuk 3... and the hebrew word means FAITHFULNESS (obeying commandments).. not Paul's PISTIS
I was astounded when I turned my bible search engine on to look for SACRED
im not looking for someone to love me... (although thats nice ;) ) or hate me... just to talk reasonably... and have some sincere interest in IDEAS... and various sacred texts of various religions
actually I was in a christian chat last night.. out of desparation... and I was surprised to see. that... not everyone in there was a fundie.. or even a christian....
sometimes.. I can really learn a lot from a fundie in a christian chat.. if they start harping on a certain verse.. and it sparks some realization in me...while im researching it...
i had quite a startling realization the other day....
i was in a long chat with a young hindu woman in Georgia... or somewhere down south...like that... two days in a row.. we talked.. and the first day.. she said something like.. Oh I wish I were like YOU...(meaning me)..... so I said.. DONT youre ok the way you are...
i explained.. "Each of us is exactly what we are supposed to be... at any given time... even athiests and agnostics...
well... the next day.. when we started chat... she proudly said... "I have a new motto...
so.. I said.. "Oh what is that.... " not thinking about what I had said yesterday...
so.. she said... "I am ok just the way I am at this moment in time..."
well.. here comes the realization...
after we finished chat... I started thinking about what she had said...
and I remembered a Talmudic passage... I had encountered once....
there is a Rabbinical saying... "Whenever you encounter TWO passages in the TORAH which seemingly CONTRADICT... look for a THIRD which harmonizes and RECONCILES...
well.... I realized... than Judaeo-Christian Theology... perceives DIVINELY REVEALED SCRIPTURE... as PERFECT... even to the point that it has HIDDEN WITHIN IT.. the means to reconcile any SEEMING IMPERFECTIONS....
and yet... Judeao Christian theology does not see THE HUMAN SOUL as haveing that same capacity... i.e. it cannot say... "I am as I should be at this moment..."
instead.. in Genesis... there is the famous passage saying that the Human Imagination is basically wicked.... and the source of all sorts of not nice things....
and that is echoed by Paul in new testaments.... "out of the heart proceeds murders, fornications, adultery... traffic violations...etc.
well... a few years ago.. when I started to read VIvekananda... I saw a comment about...how the west is always saying "sin .. sin .. sin..." and Vivekananda pointed out how unhealthy that could be... and I though perhaps its just sour grapes or something...
so.. anyway.. thats my earth shattering realization.. that something which to me (now) is so obviously flawed... (i.e. old and new testament)... is perceived as perfect and even self-correcting... but the HUMAN SPIRIT.. is perceived as so hoplessly flawed and corrupt
funny how one can go for years.. and not notice something.. and then.. one day.. you look at the same old thing.. and suddenly see it in a new light
yes... crystal.. I agree.. like a fruit ripening... it doesnt fall until its ready...
yes... bayleh.. yetzer hara.. I wouldnt have rememberd the term.. but I read about this concept.. that when in Genesis God say... Behold.. it is VERY GOOD.. rabbis interpret that to mean that mans wicked capacity can also be harnessed for good....like if your greedy.. you can become an Hasidic.. greedy for Talmudic knowledge... that sort of thing... a very unique concept unknown in Christianty.. except perhaps as a hit-rock-bottom-sinner... who uses "rock bottom" to really start repenting...
Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a level never before seen in Europe. Luther bore the influence of his upbringing and from anti-Jewish theologians such as Lyra, Burgensis, (and John Chrysostom, before them). But Luther took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler's Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther's desires to a tee.
Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, (Alfred A. Knoph, NY 1996), he writes: "One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"
No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out of youthful naivete', uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity.
Few people today realize that Luther wrote a book in 1543 called "On the Jews and Their Lies." (He also wrote such works like "Against the Sabbatarians.") Freethinkers should become aware of the anti-Semitic influence that Luther has brought on the world. His vehement attack on Jews and his powerful influence on the believers of the Germans has brought a new hypothesis to mind: that the Holocaust, and indeed, the eliminationist form of anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany may not have occurred without the influence from Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies."
Luther not only wrote 'On the Jews and their lies,' but also dubious and intolerant works such as 'Against the Sabbatarians', 'Against the Antinoman,' and 'Against the Robbing and Murdering Hordes of Peasants.' In the latter, Luther called for the stabbing and slaying of peasant rebels which triggered the death of an estimated 100,000 human beings. These rebels were not only Christians but were mostly slaughtered after their surrender to the German princes. Nor did Luther apologize for his treatise even after world criticism. In his response to his critics in "An Open Letter on the Harsh Book," Luther reiterated his venom: "Therefore, as I wrote then so I write now; Let no one have mercy on the obstinate, hardened, blinded peasants who refuse to listen to reason; but let everyone, as he is able, strike, hew, stab, and slay, as though among mad dogs, put to flight, and led astray by these peasants, so that peace and safety may be maintained." In all these harsh treatises, Luther provided an abundance of Biblical passages to justify his attack on his enemies. And, or course (sarcastically speaking), his actions were always through Christian "love" of his enemies, as he audaciously wrote: "The merciless punishment of the wicked is not being carried out just to punish the wicked and make them atone for the evil desires that are in their blood, but to protect the righteous and to maintain peace and safety. And beyond all doubt, these are precious works of mercy, love, and kindness. . ." [Bold characters, mine].
But perhaps the most lasting damage of all came from Luther openly advocating the abandonment of using natural reason (Luther considered his use of theological reasoning different from natural reason, i.e., scientific reasoning) . His theological message to live by faith and to abstain from listening to reason has mentally enslaved the lives of millions of Christians to this day. Throughout his literary life he wrote statements such as, "Whoever wishes to be a Christian, let him pluck out the eyes of his reason," "We must give reason a vacation and enter a different school. We must refrain from consulting reason. We must bid reason hold its peace; we must order it to be dead. We must gouge out its eyes and pluck its feathers...," "You must kill the other thoughts and the ways of reason or of the flesh, for God detests them." I can find no other influential writer who has spent as much ink, ad nauseum, against the very investigative tool which has kept the human species alive-- reason.
Therefore, I not only hold against Luther's Jewish hatred and his merciless attacks against his enemies, including Catholics, Protestant peasants, Turks, atheists, and infidels, but also because of his extraordinary intolerance, adherence to faith and superstition, unworkable morality, and his rejection of reason and science. I cannot imagine a man who has spread more dangerous beliefs than Martin Luther.
And no one should ever forget that his justification for these atrocious works came entirely from Christian Protestant beliefs fueled by the Bible. The history of Luther provides just one example of why religion (not just Christianity), and ideology, whether it comes in the form of Buddhism, Judiasm, Islam, communism, politics, or any other belief system, creates the intolerant play against life and nature.
Mr_Moody: Are you a Hindu
Emu_man: 2 u 2
Emu_man: yeah namaskar
Sunny_day: KIYA HAAL HAI
Mr_Moody: Please explain namashar
Sunny_day: FOLKS
Sunny_day: THIS MORNING
Emu_man: Oh u don't speech hindy ?
Mr_Moody: No I speak English
Mr_Moody: SITARAM - what are doing
Emu_man: That means my Divine spirit salutes your Divine spirit
Mr_Moody: Far out Kmy that's a good show of respect
Mr_Moody: Tell me your thoughts on Hinduism Kmy
Mr_Moody: I asume you were born Hindu
Emu_man: tell me yours first k?
Mr_Moody: I do not know anything od Hindu - I would like to learn all I can
Emu_man: why?
Mr_Moody: My mind seeks learning
Emu_man: oh ok
Emu_man: Hindu is a very old religion with a lot of ramifications here in US
Mr_Moody: I do know Hindu is an old religion of the castesystem
Emu_man: they have a lot of rituals and believs
Mr_Moody: I don't fully understand the castes except there are 5 major and 2000 subcastes
Mr_Moody: Are your rituals annual
Emu_man: what's your religion or believs?
Mr_Moody: I am a Buddhist - hence my desire to learn
Mr_Moody: I believe in cause and effect
Mr_Moody: Do your rituals take place on the same day every year
Emu_man: Yeah Hindus believe's in sanskahra (cause /effect) every action has a reaction
Emu_man: Not really but on the cicle of the moon
Mr_Moody: How many are there
Dumbell_Xtian: hi room
Emu_man: Hummm............. I'm not so sure but maybe 4 each month
Mr_Moody: Peace and Love be with You Dumbell
Dumbell_Xtian: r u hindu?
Mr_Moody: Do you make pilgramiges to India
Emu_man: No never did
Dumbell_Xtian: u know their beliefs about hinduism?
Mr_Moody: Do you have a temple that you attend
Emu_man: yes
Mr_Moody: How often do you attend
Dumbell_Xtian: what is their belief in god?
Emu_man: weekly
Emu_man: but u can go at any time
Mr_Moody: Is there a ritual there every week
Dumbell_Xtian: do they have god like Jesus Christ?
Mr_Moody: Jesus is not a god Dumbell
Dumbell_Xtian: what?
Emu_man: LM please excuse-me but gtg E-mail me k?
Mr_Moody: Jesus was a man
Mr_Moody: Peace and Love be with You Kmy
Emu_man: yes Jesus was a man
Dumbell_Xtian: In the Bible God became man and that man is Jesus
Emu_man: with u 2
Mr_Moody: I was telling Dumbell - those christians do not even know their own religion
Sitaram: in the Gita God became man and that man is Krsna
Sitaram: in the Ramayan, God became man and that man is Ram
Mr_Moody: How do god become jesus when he sent jesus
Dumbell_Xtian: Do u believe in the Holy Bible?
Sitaram: no shortage of God-Men on earth.. Gita says that....
Sitaram: do u believe in the Holy Gita???
Mr_Moody: No I don't believe in Farie tales
Dumbell_Xtian: Haven't seen one
Sitaram: its ok if you dont cause our merciful God doesnt punish in Hell for not believing
Mr_Moody: I don't know about Gita - Tell me
Sitaram: go buy it and read it.. your in america...
Mr_Moody: Is the book called Gita?
Dumbell_Xtian: do u believe reincarnation?
Sitaram: there are places that give it away for free
Sitaram: ok.. so .. your serious....you want to know about reincarnation.... so tell me.. what would you like to know.. and why
Sitaram: and how old are you.. and what city state do you live in
Dumbell_Xtian: about reincarnation
Sitaram: and what religion were you raised in
Dumbell_Xtian: Christian
Sitaram: ok.. christian what roman catholic... lutheran.. pentacostal
Sitaram: and how old are you...
Dumbell_Xtian: Baptist
Sitaram: ok baptist
Sitaram: and how old
Dumbell_Xtian: 50
Sitaram: im 50 too
Sitaram: so.. do you still go to church...
Dumbell_Xtian: ok it's even
Dumbell_Xtian: sure
Sitaram: so why do you want to know about reincarnation...
Sitaram: are you happy being a baptist
Dumbell_Xtian: of course
Sitaram: so why dont you stay a baptist
Dumbell_Xtian: but I want to know the beliefs of others
Sitaram: why are you in here bothering me
Sitaram: are you looking for converts.. be honest
Sitaram: what part of the word honest dont you understand?
Dumbell_Xtian: why did u set up this room in the first place if u won't entertain questions
Sitaram: I can see you are like most protestants.. can answer an honest question honestly..
Dumbell_Xtian: i'm honest
Dumbell_Xtian: what is u question again?
Sitaram: then.. why am I still waiting for an answer to my question..
Sitaram: are you here looking for converts?
Dumbell_Xtian: no
Sitaram: if you are happy being a baptist.. and baptists reject the belief in reincarnation.. then why are you asking about it???
Sitaram: what is your ultimate goal?
Dumbell_Xtian: to find out the truth
Dumbell_Xtian: the truth shall release u from bondage
Sitaram: so... when you say..."find out the truth".. you are saying that you do not believe in the chistian teachings.. that you do not possess the truth.. you deny that Jesus is the Way and the Truth.. so therefore you have just denied Christ
Sitaram: your own words to me have denied Jesus
Sitaram: by your own words.. you have condemned yourself at the judgement
Sitaram: for by your one churches teacings... "You shall be judged BY EVERY WORD.. that proceeds from your mouth
Dumbell_Xtian: I don't say that I want to find out if so many souls r in bondage by ur teachings
Sitaram: so... too late.. you screwed up big time... buddy....
Dumbell_Xtian: millions may be in bondage by ur teachings
Sitaram: by your lieing cheating deceitful language.. you inadvertantly DENIED CHRIST...
Sitaram: TOO..late.. you cant take it back....
Sitaram: you will suffer in eternal torment and torture...
Dumbell_Xtian: Jesus Christ is the one true God and none else
Sitaram: ha.. you liar and fool.. you have destroyed your own soul...
Dumbell_Xtian: not ur Vsna or Ram
Dumbell_Xtian: ur just a human being
Sitaram: sucker
Dumbell_Xtian: no power of destroying soul
Dumbell_Xtian: but Jesus Christ can
Sitaram: jesus said it.. not me.. YOU will be judged by EVERY WORD which proceeds from YOUR MOUTH...
Sitaram: jesus condemns you to torment.. not me
Sitaram: have fun in hell with satan... pal
Dumbell_Xtian: how can He when I don't teach falsehoods?
Dumbell_Xtian: if u continue with ur foolish beliefs it's u who's going to hell not me
Sitaram: scroll back and look at your own words.. you unintentionally denied the truth of Christ .. in your earlier answers to my questions...
Sitaram: but.. intentionality plays no part.. in the condemnation which Jesus prepares for you...
Dumbell_Xtian: can't u understand English? I said Jesus Christ is God who became flesh and dwelt among us
Dumbell_Xtian: Do u believe Jesus Christ as God?
Dumbell_Xtian: Why don't u answer?
Dumbell_Xtian: If u don"t believe, realize ur a sinner, repent and accept Jesus Christ as ur personal Lord and Saviour then u r the one who is going to hell because u have no saviour.
Dumbell_Xtian: To be assured of salvation one must realize he's a sinner, repent of his sins and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to come in His heart. Try it and u'll notice the difference.
Dumbell_Xtian: For by faith in Jesus Christ are you saved and that not of yourself. It is the gift of God. Not of works coz u'll only boast if u say ur saved by it.
FireFly_Man: or your beleif
FireFly_Man: Why are you insisting on insulting me and my question?
Sitaram: forget about cows.. go study the 2000yr history of christian atrocities
FireFly_Man: If you do not want to answer this question, all you have to do is say so. There is no need
Sitaram: the jewish holocaust.. black slavery.. witch burnings.. the inquisition
FireFly_Man: for insults.
Sitaram: find out about those atrocities.. then study about cows
burk_man: Hindu is dumb!
burk_man: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FireFly_Man: I just want to know why Hindu's beleive that cow are sacred.
Dumbell_Xtian: hey sitaram come let's sit and reason together
burk_man: HOW DID U GET YOUR NAME FireFly_man? D0 U EAT FIRE?
FireFly_Man: Dumbell_Xtian... do you know the answer to the question?
Dumbell_Xtian: i don't that's why i'm here
FireFly_Man: ok
burk_man: I KNOW YOUR ANSWER!!!
Dumbell_Xtian: and sitaram says i'm a fool for coming here
FireFly_Man: ok... BB.... why is this?
FireFly_Man: please tell me.......
burk_man: BECAUSE THEY R GGGAAAYYY!!!!!!!!
Sitaram: i said your a phoney dishonest liar.. thats what I said...
Dumbell_Xtian: maybe only maybe cows r sacred because they're useful working animal
burk_man: c u room!
Sitaram: if you want to convert people.. just be honest and say.. I think your religion is false..
Sitaram: and mine is true..
Sitaram: and.. would you like to hear about my religion
Sitaram: you dont have to come in here pretending you want to "learn" about reincarnation
FireFly_Man: fine............. no one knows in other words. You all just want to insult people.
FireFly_Man: NO SIT... I do not want to know a damned thing about your religion.
Sitaram: go to barnes and noble and buy a book for 18 dollars...
Sitaram: then you can read 600 pages of detailed explaination...
FireFly_Man: You are the one who is the one who has insulted me and NO, I could care less about your
FireFly_Man: religion.
Sitaram: or... simply scan the internet... on "hindu".. and "cow"...
Sitaram: thats what the internet is for
Sitaram: but dont come in hear and be a phoney liar
Dumbell_Xtian: why did u set up this room for if we can't discuss
Sitaram: i didnt set this room up.. number 1.. and number 2.. smart alekey people jump
Sitaram: in here all day long
Dumbell_Xtian: afraid ?
Sunny_day: KIYA HAAL HAI
Sitaram: shouting things about dot head and cows and eating beef
Sunny_day: HELLO
Sitaram: why dont you go and torture some jews.. you people seem to enjoy that
Sunny_day: ANYONE THERE
Sunny_day: I GUESS NOT
Dumbell_Xtian: hi rad may ur more rational
Dumbell_Xtian: why r u silent?
Sunny_day: KIYA HAAL HAI JI
Dumbell_Xtian: anyone could tell me about reincarnation?
Sitaram: Dumbell is a lying sneaky christian in here looking for converts...
Dumbell_Xtian: this is a hindu belief
Mike_man: thik hain aap sunao ji
Sitaram: but pretending he wants to learn about reincarnation...
Sitaram: what a low contemtible trick...
Dumbell_Xtian: i'm not pretending
Sitaram: you phoney.... as phoney as your religion with is satan and eternal tortures
Sitaram: go worship your dead god-man on a stick
Dumbell_Xtian: did u read my IM?
Sitaram: go chop his flesh and slurp his blood.. sadistic cannibal
Mike_man: bus hum aap se bade hain ji
Sunny_day: OH
Dumbell_Xtian: God will prepare a place for u if u continue cursing Him
Dumbell_Xtian: ur like a vampire
Dumbell_Xtian: r u vampire?
Sunny_day: MAN PLEASE BE NICE
Sunny_day: TO EACH OTHERT
Dumbell_Xtian: sit want to slurp the blood of Jesus Christ
Dumbell_Xtian: and chop His flesh
Dumbell_Xtian: is that nice?
bobo_head: hey
Dumbell_Xtian: hi boboo
bobo_head: ready set talk
Dumbell_Xtian: do u have idea about hinduism?
bobo_head: why do you have a red ass
Sitaram: christians arnt nice people.. the german holocaust.. the inquisition.witch burning.slavery
bobo_head: ey red ass up yours
Dumbell_Xtian: to make it readily seen
bobo_head: I am a christian you 8 armed freak
bobo_head: Jeasus can kick you ass
Sitaram: so Dumbell... is the Pope of rome a Christian????
bobo_head: what te hell
Dumbell_Xtian: i'm not Roman Catholic
Sitaram: thats not the question I asked you
bobo_head: shut the hwll u[
Sitaram: its a very simple question.. either you think he is .. or isnt christian
bobo_head: hell
Dumbell_Xtian: i don't know about their religion
Sitaram: see how dishonest people hesitate to answer and beat around bush
bobo_head: you can beat my bush
Sitaram: oh.. they you admit that roman catholic church might be more true than baptist
bobo_head: no shut the hell up
Sitaram: so perhaps your in a false religion worshiping a false christ
Dumbell_Xtian: how the hell i'm not admitting anything
Sitaram: perhaps you are deceived by satan.. and the Pope has the true church of Christ
bobo_head: maybe your mom is ugly
Sitaram: you cant be certain cause you just admitted you know nothing of Rom. Cath. church
Dumbell_Xtian: just like I don't know about ur hinduism
Sitaram: see how dishonest the baptist is... afraid to answer simple questions...
Sitaram: where is this socalled christian unity and love of their...
Sitaram: they persecute and murder each other in the name of their sweet Jesus IlIlIlIlAM: SOMEDAY YOU WILL MEET GOD....ASK JESUS TO FORGIVE AND SAVE YOU BEFORE YOU DIE
slake_head: hey sit I'm not baptist but what is your question?
Sitaram: im talking to Dumbellbell. .. im not interested in anyones answers but his
slake_head: well you cant blame God for man's shortcomings
Dumbell_Xtian: who wrote the caps in red?
slake_head: their is only one way to the father and that is throught the son Jesus Christ
Dumbell_Xtian: no IIIIIIAM's in this room
Dumbell_Xtian: this is queer
Sitaram: iiiams entered said a few things and left.. thats all
Dumbell_Xtian: ic
Dumbell_Xtian: ok sit let's not quarrel
Sitaram: i must say.. I admire your persistance...
Sitaram: although I dont believe in satan.. he is portrayed as a tireless worker.. like yourself
Sitaram: one must admire the virtues of the enemy
Dumbell_Xtian: u think i'm not serious about what I want to know
Sitaram: i can give you a link to a website.. that answers all your questions
Dumbell_Xtian: ur right God vs. Satan
Sitaram: if you really want to know that badly..
Sitaram: read my lips Dumbell.. Hindus dont believe in satan or hell
Sitaram: but if you want the link.. you can have it
Dumbell_Xtian: so u believe in all good?
Dumbell_Xtian: no evil?
Sitaram: you phoney... you dont want the link or knowledge.. or youd ask for it...
Sitaram: you just want to trick people...
Sitaram: see how dishonest the baptist is... afraid to answer simple questions...
Sitaram: where is this socalled christian unity and love of their...
Sitaram: they persecute and murder each other in the name of their sweet Jesus IlIlIlIlAM: SOMEDAY YOU WILL MEET GOD....ASK JESUS TO FORGIVE AND SAVE YOU BEFORE YOU DIE
slake_head: hey sit I'm not baptist but what is your question?
Sitaram: im talking to Dumbellbell. .. im not interested in anyones answers but his
slake_head: well you cant blame God for man's shortcomings
Dumbell_Xtian: who wrote the caps in red?
slake_head: their is only one way to the father and that is throught the son Jesus Christ
Dumbell_Xtian: no IIIIIIAM's in this room
Dumbell_Xtian: this is queer
SpiceAndNice: bye
Sitaram: iiiams entered said a few things and left.. thats all
Dumbell_Xtian: ic
Dumbell_Xtian: ok sit let's not quarrel
Sitaram: i must say.. I admire your persistance...
Sitaram: although I dont believe in satan.. he is portrayed as a tireless worker.. like yourself
Sitaram: one must admire the virtues of the enemy
Dumbell_Xtian: u think i'm not serious about what I want to know
Sitaram: i can give you a link to a website.. that answers all your questions
Dumbell_Xtian: ur right God vs. Satan
Sitaram: if you really want to know that badly..
Sitaram: read my lips Dumbell.. Hindus dont believe in satan or hell
Sitaram: but if you want the link.. you can have it
Dumbell_Xtian: so u believe in all good?
Dumbell_Xtian: no evil?
Sitaram: you phoney... you dont want the link or knowledge.. or youd ask for it...
Sitaram: you just want to trick people...
Dumbell_Xtian: u said u don't believe in satan which is symbol of evil
Dumbell_Xtian: ur inconsistent
Dumbell_Xtian: i want consistency in thought
Dumbell_Xtian: r u all hindus in this room?
Dumbell_Xtian: speak up
Sitaram: theres another hindu room down the hall.. and I heard them say theyd like to learn abt Jesus
Dumbell_Xtian: show me how to go there
Dumbell_Xtian: ok
Sitaram: you are SUCH A GULLIBLE FOOL
Sitaram: I was being sarcastic
raja_man: Hello room
Dumbell_Xtian: this is just typing idiot!
Dumbell_Xtian: i just mo ve my fingers nothing else
raja_man: Something heated goping on
Dumbell_Xtian: this guy sit has nothing in his mouth but bad words
raja_man: Hello Sita, Namashkaar
Sitaram: when you disagree with a christian..and tell them how contemptable they are.. they say... you have nothing but bad words...
raja_man: Hello Sita, Namashkaar
Sitaram: when you disagree with a christian..and tell them how contemptable they are.. they say...
Sitaram: you have nothing but bad words...
Sunny_day: WHERE IS EVERYONE
Dumbell_Xtian: ur words such as gullible fool what is that?
raja_man: Hi, Sonu
Sunny_day: HELLO
Dumbell_Xtian: u idiot enought u don't understand what u say?
Sitaram: so called christians come in here all day long and use worse language than that
raja_man: Sita and Dumbell are in some kind of heated discussion
Sunny_day: HAVE I EVER CHAT WITH U RAJ...........LOL
Dumbell_Xtian: we're not all the same
raja_man: Sita that does not give you a reason to use bad words
Sunny_day: OH GOD
raja_man: There is always first time, Sonu....lol
raja_man: Hello, KG
twinkle_man: hey yall
sharma_man: hi raj
twinkle_man: first time in this room....didnt know what went on in here
sharma_man: any thing new guys
twinkle_man: so is this essentially an indina hangout room? Playboy_Man: WHAT YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT IN HERE
twinkle_man: just curious
Sitaram: common Dumbellbell here is your big chance to win a few more followers for Jesus Playby_man: BUT MOST OF THEM DONT TALK ABOUT NOTHING
twinkle_man: well I mean I know..im jsut saying usually indians in here right
Dumbell_Xtian: why r they all hinduism?
Sitaram: do your little thing... Dumbell.. you know.. the reincarnation question...
Sitaram: or the cow question..
twinkle_man: lol
Sitaram: preach your little sermon
twinkle_man: the most common ones
raja_man: Generally, Hindus....and hindu basheres...lol
sharma_man: hinduism is way of life
Sitaram: just trying to help out Dumbell...
Sunny_day: MAN THIS ROOM ALWAYS ARGUES
Dumbell_Xtian: ok anyone knows about reincarnation? Playboy_man: "RELIGION" IS A WAY OF LIFE
twinkle_man: its more fun that way
twinkle_man: well if ur hindu u should know abt reincarnation
Sitaram: Dumbell wants to tell you how stupid it is.. and how satan will torture you forever
Sunny_day: WHO IS Dumbell
Sunny_day: ANYWAY Playboy_man: SONU NOBODY IS ARGUING THEY ARE CONVERSATING
twinkle_man: i had a girl tell me the other day that iw as gonna rott inhell cuz I wasnt christian..i was
twinkle_man: like what the hell
Sitaram: i offered him a URL link.. Dumbellebell.. all about reincarnation..and he didnt want it
Sunny_day: U WEREN'T HERE EARLIER SO DON'T TALK
Playboy_man: WHO ME?
sharma_man: tuink follow youe belief
twinkle_man: well im outta here..have fun u guys
Sitaram: see.. he knew he couldnt pull his little stunts any more.. I spoiled his game
Sitaram: so he left
raja_man: How does one find out, Sonia
Sunny_day: COMEOVER
Sunny_day: YEP
Sunny_day: NOT
raja_man: Hey why so quiet, folks
raja_man: Sonia, what happened,
Sunny_day: NOTHING
Sunny_day: PLAY BOY IS SILLY
Dumbell_Xtian: Sit u still there?
raja_man: Sonia jee, you are pretty, how do we all find out in this room
David_man9962: cosmic consciousness rules
Deli_girl150: what is hinduism?>>?
Dumbell_Xtian: answer the question Sita
raja_man: Sonu, I always wanted a very pretty chatting buddy, will you be mine?
Sitaram: i thought I got rid of you Dumbellbell
sharma_man: hinduism is way of life
Dumbell_Xtian: he can't answer
David_man9962: the belief that cosmic consciousness is GOD is Hinduism
raja_man: Playb, you want to arm ressle me on that?
Sitaram: kg.. dont lower yourself to talk to these dishonest contemptible people
Deli_girl150: yeah but what is it like what do you do?? I want to become hindu
Dumbell_Xtian: this guy's crazy
Playboy_man: I KNOW LETS SEE WHO PRESS THE BUTTONS THE FASTEAST
raja_man: You pic the place, and we will let Sonia be the judge
Dumbell_Xtian: worship the cow
Sitaram: why do you want to become a hindu..if you dont know what it is?
Sunny_day: WELL I GOTTA GO
raja_man: ooops. we both lost Playb
Deli_girl150: i just do....
Dumbell_Xtian: is worshipping the cow one?
Dumbell_Xtian: Eh Sit?
Sitaram: i told you a book you can buy.. and a website you can visit if you really want to learn...
Sitaram: but you werent interested..
Dumbell_Xtian: why u don't know too?
raja_man: Dont leave us Sonia Jee
raja_man: We are sorry
Dumbell_Xtian: u just follow without knowing huh Sit?
Sitaram: Dumbellbell.. your Jesus said some smart things..like "dont throw pearls before swine..
Dumbell_Xtian: u think ur a pearl?
Sitaram: i consider you a swine.. Dumbell so im taking your jesus advice.. and not casting any of my pear
raja_man: OK Sonu, See yaa
Sitaram: i know a swine when I see one Dumbell
Dumbell_Xtian: how can u see we're just typing
Dumbell_Xtian: u sure are crazy man
sharma_man: that's r u m/f
raja_man: Wow, Sita, those are not the words a Hindu devatee should use
Sitaram: stop taking all the garbage these christians and muslims dish out for centuries
Dumbell_Xtian: why r u full of hatred man?
Sitaram: give them a taste of their OWN MEDICNE...im only REPEATING JESUS WORDS
Dumbell_Xtian: can't u send them all to hell?
Sitaram: if Jesus said them... THEY CANT BE THAT BAD.. can they????
raja_man: Sita, you sound like a sore Hindu...lol
Sitaram: listen to Dumbellbell.. he has been threatening me with eternal torment for an hour...
Sitaram: i havnt threatened him with anything,... not once
Dumbell_Xtian: i did not
Dumbell_Xtian: u really r crazy or paranoid man
Sitaram: i just tell him he is dishonest.. and foolish.. and I am entitled to my opinions
raja_man: Sita, we cant stop these people trying to convert us.... that is what they know.... and they
Sitaram: Dumbell boy.. I have cut and pasted all your remarks .. and I can email them to anyone interest
raja_man: know not better
Sitaram: interested... our whole dialoge...
Sitaram: so.. they can just for themselves.. what you are.. and what you said...
Sitaram: now I have really caught you in a bare faced lie Dumbell_Xtian
Dumbell_Xtian: well Sit i'll not waste time to sit around a always angry man
Dumbell_Xtian: we can't reason together that way
Dumbell_Xtian: i guess I have to go now
Dumbell_Xtian: Bye sit
Sitaram: Dumbell.. I have caught you red handed in several bare faced lies...
Sitaram: you better go COWARD.. with your tail between your legs
raja_man: Do you really think you can wipe out tears of programming out of their mind?
Sitaram: no.. but.. I have built a 200 page website for young
Sitaram: hindus and buddhists and jains and sikhs to study
Sitaram: showing them the fallacies of christian and muslim religion
Sitaram: and how to defend their faiths and religious freedom
raja_man: Sorry I got tied up for a sec
Sitaram: thats ok
raja_man: You are right, tho
Sitaram: you may visit my website if you like
Sitaram: judge for yourself
raja_man: Ok
Sitaram: I will give you URL
Sitaram: hold on
raja_man: Only one comment, if you care to know
Sitaram: Click here: A Hindu Dream - seeing GOD - Page 1
Sitaram: I emailed you as well. for convenience..and future reference
raja_man: Thanks, Sita
Sitaram: your welcom.. I enjoy feedback..positive and negative
raja_man: Is that you in the PIC
Sitaram: I would like to help religious freedom of all peoples
Sitaram: yes.. thats me
raja_man: I do have something to say, though
Sitaram: yes
raja_man: When you discuss these things in the chat room
Sitaram: yes..
raja_man: it apperars like you are not nice
raja_man: I think you are very right
Sitaram: well.. I like muslims and christians to get a taste of their own medicine for a change
raja_man: on the points you are making
Sitaram: I want them to see that their dead god-man on a stick and their cannabalistic chomping and slurping of flesh and blood.. is every bit as vulurable as idol worship
raja_man: but, honey gathers more flies, as they say'''lol
Sitaram: just as the muslims bow 5 times a day to a STONE... which.. as far as im concerned is a SIVALINGAM
Sitaram: Christians and muslims arnt flies .. their maggots.. I dont to gather them.. I want to spray them
raja_man: I dont, they are the children of the same god
Sitaram: so was Ravanna and Hiranyakashipu
Sitaram: and Hitler
raja_man: yes, thet went to Vakunth thamm, after their death
Sitaram: and Martin Luther who paved the way for antisemitism and the german jewish holocaust
Sitaram: not before they got ripped to shreds...
raja_man: Ravana did
Sitaram: in fact.. that was part of the process of their moksha
Sitaram: well.. they are what they are.. and I am what I am.. and my website is what it is... so...
raja_man: do you really believe that you can come on line for a few mins and convert anybody?
Sitaram: ohhh.. I dont want to convert ANYONE.. not one single solitary soul...
Sitaram: infact.. I think that notion in itself is foolish...
raja_man: Than what is your reason to argue
Sitaram: I just make information available.. people do what they want with it
Sitaram: I hold up a mirror to the maggots... and they get a chance to see themselves.. in all their gory.. sadistic reality
raja_man: No why do you even take time to argue with so called maggots
raja_man: I dont think you are successful in holding any mirros
raja_man: all you end up doing is bark upon deaf ears
Sitaram: well.. im 50 yrs old... and im doing what I think is good and right.. and if im wrong.. im willing to take the consequences of my actions and beliefs...
raja_man: true, no argument there
Sitaram: actually.. you'd be quite surprised... if you knew some of the reactions.. and results ive seen
raja_man: I might be.............
Sitaram: its a dirty nasty thankless job.. but somebody has to do it..
raja_man: I am basing our conversation on what I have seen so far
Sitaram: and its helpful if that somebody is white as wonderbread... pardon my candor
raja_man: ( no prob)
Sitaram: and.. I spent 17 years as a greek orthodox christian.. and I read greek and hebrew.. and I know the old and new testament
Sitaram: and I have read the koran in english cover to cover
raja_man: All that ... I have too, Sita
Sitaram: and I have a fairly good knowledge of buddhism,... jewish talmud... sikh.. jain... and zoroastrian...
Sitaram: ok.. so say something in greek
raja_man: I am not a born Hindu either
raja_man: Not in greek, lol
Sitaram: well.. im not the only one.. like me... but.. feel like doing what im doing.. and so far.. no one is stoping me
raja_man: I have read the translations
Sitaram: well. you said..EVERYTHING..so I take you at face value...
Sitaram: give me three quotes from the Koran
raja_man: no one will, neither am I
Sitaram: who are the two most famous rabbis of all antiquity
raja_man: You are interested in a meaningful conversation or to establish a supiriority
Sitaram: well.. im just pointing out.. you made a rash statement...
Sitaram: and it doesnt appear to be true...
raja_man: I am not interested in superiority game
Sitaram: right
Sitaram: im interested in truth... and demonstrating its absence.. thats what I do with my christian and muslim brothers
raja_man: I can ask you things that even your dreams have not concieved yet, but that leads to nothing...except loss of time
Sitaram: I know.. but whatever you are.. and whatever I am.. im doing what im doing.. and your not... and maybe im right and maybe im wrong...
raja_man: so, be with your God, mt friend.. ciao
Sitaram: but im doing it.. and I have my reasons
Sitaram: bye
SpiceAndNice: Hello, how are you today? Are you busy talking with someone?
Sitaram: just fighting with this stupid nasty christian
SpiceAndNice: lol
Sitaram: hes such a liar
SpiceAndNice: ok, calm down!
Sitaram: comes in saying "id like to learn about reincarnation"
Sitaram: so.. I said "are you looking for converts...be honest"
Sitaram: and he said.. NO...
Sitaram: But 10 minutes later he was preaching
SpiceAndNice: Well I know you gave him a head full !
SpiceAndNice: lol
Sitaram: yes... I captured the entire dialogue...
SpiceAndNice: oh boy !!!
Sitaram: such dialogues are very instructive
SpiceAndNice: Well you sometimes have to ignore people like that, they are just very uneducated and ignorant
Sitaram: well.. yes.. but my "job" is collection such dialogues.. and preparing defense arguments.
SpiceAndNice: Well if thats your job, you should do it, expecially when you know you are right.
Sitaram: hold on... just a moment while I cut and paste
SpiceAndNice: ok
Sitaram: im done for a moment...
Sitaram: I will let him babble...
SpiceAndNice: ok
Sitaram: I can even email you the dialogue.. to your new hotmail address
SpiceAndNice: ok I will love that
Sitaram: now let me see.... mirabai1966@hotmail.com did I get it right from memory??
SpiceAndNice: yes you did
SpiceAndNice: you should remember, you set it up. lol
Sitaram: I was thinking of saying that.. but it sounded too cruel... .. I mean the number of times we repeated it... thats why its BRANDED in my brain... also because I like Mirabai
SpiceAndNice: You know, I was thinking ,i want to get into computers, I am thinking of going back to school for that
Sitaram: I told the christian.."there is another Hindu room down the hall.. and I heard them say they want to learn about Jesus..." ... so he says... "How do I get there?"
Sitaram: so.. I said "Youre such a gullible fool.. I was being sarcastic"
SpiceAndNice: lol
SpiceAndNice: you actually called him a gullible fool??
Sitaram: certainly
SpiceAndNice: lol
SpiceAndNice: Well I hope you dont think I am a gullible fool.
Sitaram: no.. but .. he persecutes our faith...
Sitaram: what do you what me to do.. kiss him
SpiceAndNice: no. I am just to nice.
Sitaram: well. .. sometimes one has to be tough...
SpiceAndNice: I sometimes let people take advantage of me, but lately
SpiceAndNice: I have been thinking differently.
Sitaram: well. .. look out for your personal interests...
SpiceAndNice: I dont know what got into me, but I am becomming more confident of myself
Sitaram: but what christians and muslims do to hindus and buddhists.. and jews.. is a different story....
Sitaram: if you dont fight that.. one day you have another Hitler and another Holocaust
SpiceAndNice: you think so?
Sitaram: yes I do.. or I wouldnt say it...
Sitaram: it happend once.. and it can certainly happen again
SpiceAndNice: Well I know the christian religion think that theirs is the best and they usually put down other religions, which is so wrong.
SpiceAndNice: Sitaram, he's gone, and he has proved his ignorance and you told him, so forget about him.
Sitaram: no hes not gone... you have to scoll your peoples here list
SpiceAndNice: Are you still talking o him??
Sitaram: ok.. now he left
SpiceAndNice: lol
Sitaram: he just left now.. I spoiled his little gaem
SpiceAndNice: lol
SpiceAndNice: You are funny sometimes
SpiceAndNice: Do I seem different today??
Sitaram: no... you dont.. but I have been preoccupied
Sitaram: why are you different??
Sitaram: I will tell you a funny true story...
Sitaram: I know this big burly irishman... who was raised catholic...
SpiceAndNice: ok
Sitaram: but.. as a teenager.. he started studying and practicing every single religion... islam... buddhist.. etc etc
Sitaram: he finally became a Sikh... and took a convert white woman as a Sikh wife, Kaur
Sitaram: but.. after a few years.. I got interested in hare krishna
Sitaram: so... he chants hare krishna.. took initiation.. and everything...
Sitaram: but he still dresses like a sikh
Sitaram: so.. one say.. we were coming out of a hare krishna temple... together.. so.. he turns to me and says..
Sitaram: "YOu know.. when we practice many religions.. like you and I do.. you have to keep a sense of humour...
Sitaram: so.. when im with the hare krishna's I say in my mind...."Im dancing with the idolators, im dancing with the idolators.." and when im with the Sufis.. I say in my mind "Im chanting with the meat-eaters..im chanting with the meat-eaters"
Sitaram: I thought that was very cute
SpiceAndNice: Well , as the saying goes, when in Rome do as the Romas.
Sitaram: I bet you dont know where that saying comes from
SpiceAndNice: Romans
SpiceAndNice: No ,Where??
Sitaram: no.. it comes from around 400 ad... and a woman from Gaul...(now France..) who was christian.. was visiting Rome.. and they way cristians worshiped in rome WAS SO DIFFERENT.. it bothered her.. so she wrote to her bishop...
Sitaram: so.. he wrote back and said.. "When in Rome...do as the romans do...
SpiceAndNice: Is there anything you dont know know????
SpiceAndNice: lol
Sitaram: sure.. lots of things... but im NOT TELLINT YOU...lol
Sitaram: cause I dont know.. so how can I tell you
SpiceAndNice: Hey stop playing with my mind !!!!
Sitaram: on the internet.. THATS ALL I CAN PLAY WITH.. lol
SpiceAndNice: lol
SpiceAndNice: I think you should have had a couple of kids....
SpiceAndNice: to carry on what you are doing.
Sitaram: my family .. is genetically unhealthy.. my health is very poor all my life.. its better that I didnt have any
SpiceAndNice: You better dont die on me now, just kidding.
SpiceAndNice: I still have to learn alot from you
Sitaram: keep reading the web site...
Sitaram: and the books I tell you
SpiceAndNice: You know I will
Sitaram: I know.. im cutting and pasting a little
Sitaram: thats why the delay
SpiceAndNice: ok
SpiceAndNice: Your wife must be really educated to, well to keep up with you.
Sitaram: she is smart.. she is a cpa... and very religious roman catholic...
SpiceAndNice: WOW ! ROMAN CATHOLIC??
SpiceAndNice: A very interesting marriage I bet.
SpiceAndNice: Well, while you are cutting and pasting, whatever that means....I have to tell you, I think my friend have me on ignore, but thats ok.
Sitaram: you mean.. your doctor friend
Sitaram: good grief
SpiceAndNice: Well not really ignore, just a little distant. Yes the doc.
Sitaram: does that mean all your dreams
Sitaram: are down the toilet..with him
SpiceAndNice: Hey if he wants to be like that, his lost
SpiceAndNice: I am a very loving, caring,and giving person.
Sitaram: I know... well......hold on
SpiceAndNice: ok
Sitaram: I just emailed someone my URL...
SpiceAndNice: ok
SpiceAndNice: I had a very productive day, I did alot today, I made use of this precious day.
Sitaram: thats very good..
Sitaram: maybe this is for the best
SpiceAndNice: maybe
SpiceAndNice: Things happen for a reason
SpiceAndNice: right!!
SpiceAndNice: and they dont happen by chance.
Sitaram: right.. nothing by chance
SpiceAndNice: See I am a changed person.
Sitaram: im very pleased
SpiceAndNice: I am working on my confidence
SpiceAndNice: Well I better let you go, I have some chores to do anyway. Keep in touch. You can still have that conversation with the doc if you want.
Sitaram: bye bye
Sitaram: ok...
SpiceAndNice: bye
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