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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
(12-9-98)
Sitaram: hello.. how are you
SugarAndSpice: hi
SugarAndSpice: I am fine
Sitaram: did you see me come on line.. on the buddy list
SugarAndSpice: no I did'nt
SugarAndSpice: I have to add you
Sitaram: oh.. yes... you must add me to see when im online
SugarAndSpice: ok
Sitaram: did you successfully visit your hotmail email
SugarAndSpice: yes, I even add the favourite place
Sitaram: very good
SugarAndSpice: you taught me well
Sitaram: and... my website... are you able to visit it
SugarAndSpice: yes I did, you are so smart, I really admire you
SugarAndSpice: I have a new saying now
Sitaram: thanks
Sitaram: whats that
SugarAndSpice: I am exactly what I should be at this point in time
SugarAndSpice: what do you think??
Sitaram: oh..very good.... I have told other people that... but I never thought of making it a saying
SugarAndSpice: well I agree with that
SugarAndSpice: very much
Sitaram: I guess... it struck me one day... when I was reading some vaishnav theology from the Vallabacharya lineage...
SugarAndSpice: it makes alot of sense
Sitaram: which is a grihastha lineage or sampradaya
SugarAndSpice: oh, ok
Sitaram: as apposed to the Hare Krishna Iskon lineage.. which is sanyassin.. and traces back to Chaitanya
Sitaram: anyway... someone was asking one of their leaders... about... athiests... agnostics... etc
SugarAndSpice: go on
Sitaram: and the spiritual leader answered... each one is fine just as they are... they are as they should be... at this point in time
Sitaram: it is like an orchard... with fruit... at various stages... ripening
Sitaram: or... like the worm , which becomes the pupa, which emerges as a butterfly
Sitaram: but... only at a certain stage.. is the butterfly beautiful...
Sitaram: only at a certain stage... is the fruit ripened.. and tasty for eating
Sitaram: the western mind... is always trying to eliminate all evil.. and make only good...
Sitaram: eliminate all poverty... and make only wealth
Sitaram: eliminate all unbelievers.. and make.. only christians... or muslims... etc
Sitaram: or.. more specifically.. only roman catholics, or Lutherns, etc...
Sitaram: the western mind... cannont accept, or surrender to... the samsara of dualities
SugarAndSpice: what is the samsara of dualities??
Sitaram: samsara... is the cycle of birth and death... this world... into which we are born... again and again... and dualities are... the drama we see around us.. hot/cold, good/evil, truth/falsehood, pleasure/pain, etc .. etc... being/non-being
SugarAndSpice: ok
Sitaram: at your stage of ripeness... you seek... and need.. and value.. certain things.... a loving husband,... a child... motherhood...
Sitaram: and this is good... this is as you should be... in this life..
SugarAndSpice: I am lost for words when you talk.
Sitaram: but... if you understood.. all of these other matters... not simply intellectually.. but understood them spiritually....
Sitaram: you would be seeking... renunciation,... japa, kirtan, meditation.... etc....
Sitaram: but... as Lord Krishna said to Arjuna...
Sitaram: better to do YOUR OWN DHARMA imperfectly.... than the Dharma of another... to perfection...
Sitaram: of course... I am paraphrasing from memory....
Sitaram: but... you see.... because I have given you ... with words... a glimpse into these things....
Sitaram: even though it is not your dharma... at this stage... in this life....
Sitaram: you are forever transformed...
Sitaram: for ... your soul will always retain an impression... an awarness... a knowledge of these things...
Sitaram: so... wherever you go... what ever pleasures... or pains you experience in the future...
Sitaram: a part of your soul... will be looking... with a spiritual eye.. towards this greater scheme of this.. towards the ultimate goal of ever jiva... every atman... which is liberation... and freedom from future rebirths..
Sitaram: in a sense... it matters very little... what the future outcome is.... of your marriage... whether you have children.. or do not... from the perspective of these... spiritual goals....
Sitaram: but right now... perhaps you can only begin to understand that... intellectually,, but not emotionally... or spiritualy..
Sitaram: are you still there?
SugarAndSpice: yes I am, you just have my thinking alot
SugarAndSpice: it all makes alot of sense
Sitaram: well.. that is why you have met me... isnt it...
Sitaram: nothing happens by chance
SugarAndSpice: yes, this is true.
Sitaram: first.. we must come to understand the nature of the physical and the spiritual world...
Sitaram: second... we must SURRENDER to it....
Sitaram: and thirdly.. we must transcent both it.. and ourselves...
Sitaram: but.. this takes many re-births...
Sitaram: and... we are purified through suffering...
SugarAndSpice: tell me more
Sitaram: Lord Krsna... tells Arjuna.. I think in ch. 3 of the Gita....
Sitaram: out of thousands of people.. hardly one seeks to find ME...
Sitaram: and out of thousands who seek to find ME.. hardly one comes to KNOW my true nature
Sitaram: so.. you see.. at any given time... in the orchard of Samsara... very few fruits are actually.. ripe...
SugarAndSpice: I understand now
Sitaram: and we see the reality of this... every day.. when we look about us... on the television.. in chat rooms...
Sitaram: in a century.. how many Ghandi's or Mother Theresa's do we encounter...
SugarAndSpice: not very many
Sitaram: of.. course.. for each one... who becomes famous.. well known.. there may be hundreds... even thousands.. who are equally "ripe" but.. go unpublicised....
Sitaram: so... have you had any new thoughts ... about your circumstances.. or your future plans...
Sitaram: of course... now that I have told you these things... you perhaps want to forget your other plans... and become a Mirabai...
SugarAndSpice: lol
Sitaram: you must be patient.... and do what is... your Dharma... but.. first you must recognize what that Dharma is....
Sitaram: I suppose it would be better.. if your husband did not become aware of me or my website...
Sitaram: do you think that is possible.. to keep it from him...
SugarAndSpice: how do I recognize what that Dharma is? No he dont play on the computer
Sitaram: oh... that is a convenient relief
SugarAndSpice: yes
Sitaram: well... that is not easy.... but... you well have a feeling... a sense.. when things are right.... ment to be...
SugarAndSpice: you really think so
Sitaram: yes.. if he became aware that you were always looking at my website... or talking to me.. or influenced by me.... then... if down the road.... you suddnly ask to leave.. he may become suspicious... and blame me....for putting ideas in your head
Sitaram: of course... I am putting ideas in your head.. to become a saint... but he might not see it that way
SugarAndSpice: dont worry
SugarAndSpice: he is not interested in this
Sitaram: so the computer was purchased primarily for you??
SugarAndSpice: yes
Sitaram: I see.. well.. be careful not to mention me... or our discussions.. or the website
Sitaram: were you able to visit page 14 of the website??
Sitaram: and... do you have speakers... to hear the music.. the bhajans
SugarAndSpice: I will not discuss you with anyone. no I have'nt visites page 14, yes I did hear the bhajans, it made me feel different
Sitaram: oh good.. im glad you have speakers....
SugarAndSpice: I cant explain the feeling
Sitaram: I know
SugarAndSpice: its like the ones my grandfather listened to
Sitaram: Shankaracharya.... wrote a prayer which begins... "Oh Thou... from Whom all words recoil..."... you see.. words bounce off DIVINITY.. just like water... off a ducks back...
Sitaram: so... it is to be experienced....
Sitaram: well.. if you feel these things... if you are transformed in some way... then... my website is serving some good purpose... and I did not labour for nothing... this is good...
SugarAndSpice: so what do you think is going to happen in my life? no you did not labour for nothing
Sitaram: well... I will tell you a nice book to look for... it is by Mother Meera.. she is in germany... it is called ... "Answers" I believe
Sitaram: and in that book... various people ask her questions....
Sitaram: and... of course.. she publicizes the answers in this book
Sitaram: in one answer...
Sitaram: she explains... "It takes many many lifetimes.. many births
Sitaram: to achieve union with the Divine
Sitaram: to come to a realization of even this seemingly simple fact.... and to accept it.. to surrender to it... is great wisdom... and progress... in itself
Sitaram: you see... looking at things from a different angle... lets say an individual is immersed in a life of "bad things"...but one day... they come to a realization... that there is such a thing as "holiness" "sanctity" and that it is desireable... to acquire.. to achieve....
Sitaram: well. that realization in itself... is the first step... towards holiness... towards sanctity...
SugarAndSpice: I understand now
Sitaram: once you begin to look at everything.. in a different way... with a spiritual eye.... you can never go back... to the way that you saw things previously...
SugarAndSpice: some people do, dont they?
Sitaram: somewhere in my website.... I tell this true story.. about a holy man.. who lived in india.. in this century... in a little apartment in a city... and had a small number of disciples.. who came to listen to him....
Sitaram: but... one day... a stranger came... whom they had never seen before....
Sitaram: but... somehow he had heard of this holy man.. and his meetings and talks... and... had found his way to their little meeting places
Sitaram: the stranger asked a number of "spiritual" questions.... and the holy man answered him with answers which he could understand.. given the strangers current "level"...
Sitaram: and... then.. the stranger left... and never returned again... to future meetings...
Sitaram: so... after a month or so.... one of the students.... asked the holy man....
Sitaram: "Guruji... remember that stranger who came... and.. asked all those questions.... and...now... we have never seen him again.... whatever shall become of him..?"
Sitaram: the Holy man answered.... "For him, it is too late,... once a person begins asking such questions.. and seeking answers... there is no turning back.....
Sitaram: ... they have achieved a level of spiritual ripeness... such that they will irresistably be drawn.....
Sitaram: like a moth to a flame...
Sitaram: like a feather in a whirl pool...
Sitaram: closer and closer to the center...
Sitaram: closer and closer to Moksha... to Reabsorption into the Bramhajyoti.... the Divine Light of Brahman.. from which each Jiva is a little spark... a little ray...
Sitaram: realization of this... in itself.. this spiritual truth.. is the first step in SURRENDER...
SugarAndSpice: so will I know when I have reached my level of ripeness ?
Sitaram: you must be very patient... do not think about these things... worry about these things... the mango does not worry about how ripe it is.. or how sweet it will become... that is a western mentality...
Sitaram: but.. use each day... and each moment wisely...
SugarAndSpice: ok
Sitaram: if it is necessary to wash clothes... or iron.. you must do those chores.... but.. you can still make your mind a Mandir... yes...
Sitaram: if you have free moments... you may choose television... or .. you may have a little Gita in your pocket.. and read a page or two....
Sitaram: as you read my website.. you will read about many such things.. and learn more...
Sitaram: you see... a drop of water... falls into the ocean... and dissappears... loses its identity.. as it enters into the ocean... but.... at the same time... THE OCEAN IS ENTERING INTO THE DROP.... but the ocean does not loose its identity....
Sitaram: you are the drop... and God is the Ocean...
SugarAndSpice: well I know I still have so much to learn, but at leat I have started, I have to take one day at a time
Sitaram: yes... exactly.. use each day... each moment ... wisely...
Sitaram: so... I should be going soon.. to do some chores..
SugarAndSpice: yes
Sitaram: but I am glad I caught you on line.. so we could chat about these things
Sitaram: but go and look at page 14... in the website
SugarAndSpice: ok
Sitaram: by clicking on INDEX OF PAGES...
Sitaram: AND finding page 14... and clicking on it
SugarAndSpice: ok
Sitaram: see you either later tonigh.. or perhaps tomorrow
SugarAndSpice: ok you have a good day
Sitaram: you too... bye bye
SugarAndSpice: bye
POSTSCRIPT:
I have just finished this conversation.. and am preparing it as a web page.. And I am struck with an amazing realization...... This young person has been empressed with the realization that... "I am exactly as I should be.. at this moment in time..." but... I remember a passage from the Talmud which says: Whenever two passages in the Torah seem to disagree... look for a third passage which will reconcile and harmonize the seeming disagreement. Judaeo-Christian Theology perceives their Sacred scriptures as divinely inspired... and has the greatest faith that... they contain everything necessary for perfection... even the secret key to eliminate any seeming inconsistency or imperfection..... BUT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE HUMAN SPIRIT was created with the same self-healing perfection.... as the written scriptures..... ... they see the human soul as hoplessly corrupt and incapable of ever reaching perfection without outside help...... is this not a most astounding phenomenon.. and realization...????
