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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
Sitaram: Hi
Sitaram: You want to understand pure consciousness?
Bondage: Hello Sitaram, I am awed by your knowledge on the subject
Bondage: Yes, if you can help me in any way
Sitaram: Hmm... well... let me say this
Sitaram: Did you grow up in USA
Bondage: Yes, born in Hollywood, and lived here all my life
Sitaram: Ok... so you were educated in USA... my point being...
Bondage: Yes
Sitaram: I was also by the way
Sitaram: That.. in our culture.. when we ask to understand anything...
Sitaram: We expect something... like a PBS Nova documentary...
Bondage: Right
Sitaram: But... to understand pure consciousness... it is a subjective experience
Bondage: OK
Sitaram: Whatever my own subjective experience of consciousness is....
Sitaram: ... I cannot convey it to you objectively....
Sitaram: ... I can talk "about it"... but...
Sitaram: That will only be... a likeness.. an approximation
Sitaram: ... you must reach a state in which you experience it yourself...
Sitaram: There is a funny expression I have heard lately...
Sitaram: "If you want to talk the talk... you gotta walk the walk"
Bondage: Right, so it is a way of life
Bondage: First and foremost
Sitaram: Of course.. this expression is used by Christians who mean that if you want to preach the Gospel you have to live a pure life
Sitaram: Well.. if we take that saying over to Hinduism and Buddhism
Sitaram: Well... hmmm.. lets see... it becomes something a little more...
Bondage: Hows that?
Sitaram: Westerners "talk the talk"... about consciousness... nirvana... samadhi... etc etc...
Sitaram: But... hmmm... I will tell you a very ancient story...
Sitaram: About Alexander the Great... when he travelled with his conquering armies into India
Sitaram: He came upon some naked Holy Men.. sitting in meditation
Sitaram: So.. he sent one of his officers over to them to say...
Sitaram: Alexander the Great desires to know what wisdom you have attained from your endeavors
Sitaram: The Holy Men made their reply to the officer... and he returned to Alexander the Great.. and said
Bondage: Interesting
Sitaram: They say "If you would have the knowledge that we have attained,.. come here.. remove your clothes.. and remain with us.. sitting.. while your armies travel on"
Sitaram: Essentially.... Alexander the Great was asking them the same question that you are asking me... except you have asked me personally... not through an intermediary
Sitaram: Have I helped you at all
Sitaram: ?????????????
Bondage: Have you experienced that state called pure consciousness?
Bondage: And you are saying that pure consciousness is subjective
Sitaram: Well... I can only know the highest state that I have experienced.... but... I cannot know if that is the highest...
Bondage: not objective
Sitaram: Well... it must be experienced... achieved .... for oneself... one cannot simply read or ask about it
Sitaram: I will say that I have read in Buddhist Sutras..descriptions of what Siddhartha Gautama experienced during his Enlightenment... and it is far beyond anything that I have personally experienced
Sitaram: Dont forget... however impressive you might possibly find my web page.... it is the product of a modern, western educated , intellectual... who still lives very much in the world.. and even chats on the internet
Bondage: Haha, thats whats so great!
Sitaram: If.. you look at my web page 3 or 4 or 5... I forget now.. but entitled "Have you made any progress"... you will see what I say about myself.. with regard to these matters
Sitaram: What is so great?
Bondage: Yes I think its page 5, and its great that you can share your experience and make it accessible on line
Sitaram: Well... my desire is #1... to help others who are seeking a path... but #2... to help those in India and Guyana who were raised in Hinduism... to understand how to survive the attacks of Christians and Moslems... and others
Bondage: Well thank you, Sitaram, but im still a little shaky on the pure consciousness definition
Sitaram: And... perhaps it is Gods will.. that someone like myself... should have some... spiritual experience... and speak up in defense of Sanatan Dharma.... but also in defense of the religious freedom of all
Bondage: Can I attain it?
Sitaram: I would suggest that you read.... Maharshi Ramana
Sitaram: As one book
Sitaram: There are several ways.. that you may attain this goal...
Bondage: Particularly the 4 general yogas?
Sitaram: You may attain the experience of pure consciousness in one instant.. in the twinkling of an eye.... if ...IF ..it is God's will.... and that is through Kripa or Grace.. and it is a gift... and it is very rare
Sitaram: And... yes... the other ways are by the 4 yogas.. and they are very difficult... and require sometimes a lifetime of effort...
Sitaram: Even the desire itself... the desire to seek and experience pure consciousness.. is a gift... from God's grace
Sitaram: So you are very blessed to be even asking this question
Sitaram: look at these chat rooms and see where most people are... spiritually
Bondage: Yes, I could never get an enlightening discussion in here
Sitaram: I know.. its very sad.. to see the fighting and name calling even
Bondage: And you wont believe how many times I have asked this question about pure consciousness, and receiving no reply
Bondage: I have received some replies in the metaphysics room
Sitaram: Well.. I will add you to my AOL buddy list...
Sitaram: And I will keep an eye out for books for you to read.. with your desire in mind... concerning pure consciousness
Bondage: And one of those replies was that it is when human reason takes over human nature... what do you think about that?
Sitaram: ... that is a very "western" answer....
Sitaram: Pure consciousness is beyond what western philosophy calls "reason"
Sitaram: There is a verse in the Gita... in which Lord Krishna....says..."I am brighter than 10,000 suns,... I sustain all these many Universes... with the smallest fraction of My power"....
Sitaram: If I should cease my activity for the briefest moment.. all they many Universes.. and beings.. would perish...
Sitaram: When you experience Pure Consciousness... you are One with That...
Bondage: OK that right there helps me a lot
Sitaram: You know... I have never recommend this to anyone before.. but I am thinking to ask you to read... Siddhartha by Herman Hesse
Sitaram: And also... please look for a translation of the Gita Bhagavad-Gita by Winthrop Sargeant... a little one that fits in the pocket.. paperback.. costs 8$ by SUNY press I think
Sitaram: Dont bother with those Prabhupad translations.... too much commentary... not that its bad... but.... you should read straight Gita...
Bondage: Yes I have read the Gita with the commentary done by Sankaracharya
Sitaram: And... hmmm .. in the Herman Hess Siddhartha.. there is a passage.. where Siddhartha's disciple looks into Siddhartha's's face... and sees the Universe mirrored...
Bondage: Wow
Bondage: Mirrored?
Sitaram: If you come to feel... the feeling of that passage.. coupled with the feeling of Arjuna.. when he sees Lord Krishna's Sat-svarupa.... with the spiritualized eyes that Lord Krsna gives to Arjuna...
Sitaram: If you begin to taste the Bhava... the mood.. of those things....
Sitaram: You will... experience.... horripulation... goose bumps... you hair will stand on end.... that symptom....
Sitaram: .. is the beginnings... of... tasting the... likeness.. the similitude of... the actual experience of pure consciousness
Sitaram: But... the more closely you approach to the complete experience.... the more closely you approach.... as a moth to a flame.... the undoing of your own... nature... as a drop enters the ocean... the ocean also enters into the drop
Sitaram: ... but the drop is ...no more
Sitaram: Am I making any sense... to you
Sitaram: Think about a black hole... and the event horizon...
Bondage: Yes you are
Bondage: But continue please
Sitaram: We know that... if we should actually find one of these hypothetical black holes....
Sitaram: Which theory predicts should exist...
Sitaram: We know that no light can escape the event horizon
Bondage: What is the event horizon, sorry?
Sitaram: So if we ask... "what is beyond the event horizon".... it is like your question to me...
Sitaram: If you take the mass of our solar system the planets and our sun.. and squish it into a ball the size of the moon or smaller... the gravity become so great... that light cannot escape... because space-time is curved into a perfect sphere.. around the black hole.. that is an event-horizon
Sitaram: So.. the question "what lies beyond the event horizon"... is analogous to your question "what is pure consciousness"
Bondage: Ok
Sitaram: But they only way to know.. "what happens beyond the event horizon".. is to approach closer and closer... like the moth to the flame....
Sitaram: But to completely know... is to "pass THROUGH the even horizon"... but that is... to never return... and to be no more what you were... your "individuality"
Bondage: Thats very cool
Bondage: To lose the individuality
Sitaram: Do you still feel that you would like to experience "pure consciousness"?
Bondage: It is my goal
Sitaram: Think about the drop which enters the ocean... but the ocean also enters the drop
Sitaram: Keep thinking about that... image.. that metaphor
Bondage: Alright,
Sitaram: Have I helped a little?
Bondage: Thanks very much, Sitaram, you have helped a lot
Bondage: It is like talking to a guru
Sitaram: Im glad... it is not easy.. what you desire...
Sitaram: I will help you in any way I can
Bondage: I've been doing all this reading but I have no one to discuss my questions with
Bondage: I haven't made time to visit a guru yet
Sitaram: Well you may always email me.. too... and I update my web pages.. with more discussions.. like this one
Bondage: And I know that I need to
Bondage: Thats great, Sitaram
Sitaram: Can you want for a minute and I will be right back??
Bondage: And I will check in sure
Sitaram: Are you there... im back
Bondage: Yes, are you a professor or guru?
Sitaram: May I have your permission.... if I change your screen name in the dialog text.... to disguise your identity.. may I post this very valuable question of yours and our discussion to my web pages... for others to profit??
Sitaram: This is one of the more excellent questions that I have received on-line
Bondage: I would only be honored
Sitaram: It will benefit many others
Sitaram: Thank you so much... I shall choose a different screen name in the text
Sitaram: And I will add you to my AOL buddy list.. so I will see you when you come on - line
Bondage: Im sorry I couldn't get to deep, im not too knowledgeable on philosophy and metaphysics
Sitaram: I am neither a professor... nor a Guru... but.... several people have come to me for instruction and guidance
Sitaram: You are doing very well.. it is your desire... for this goal.. which is a gift from God... you will not achieve it by philosophy... but by devotion, faith.. and grace
Sitaram: You have asked. ... to experience Divinity itself... directly
Bondage: I highly admire your endeavors in becoming knowledgeable on all the major religions
Sitaram: Thank you... it has been the greatest joy in my life
Bondage: And thank you for your sharing it with us
Bondage: I will always keep an eye out for you while on line
Sitaram: But each of us.. in our life circumstances... are given gifts... from God.... Lord Krsna says "....
Sitaram: Better to do your Own Dharma (duties) imperfectly
Sitaram: .. than to do the Dharma of another.... excellently...
Sitaram: Each of us is born... into a particular life.. for a certain purpose.... you .. me ... Mother Theresa.. Gandhi
Sitaram: Even... poor Hitler... and Ravanna and Hiranyakashipu...
Bondage: Yes
Sitaram: Each of us has a purpose.. and.. nothing happens... without a purpose.. a reason a significance
Sitaram: So... I will begin to think of readings for you which might help....
Bondage: Wonderful
Bondage: I deeply appreciate it
Sitaram: And you may email me anytime... with questions
Sitaram: It is my honor to serve you...
Bondage: Great, thanks
Sitaram: Your most welcome
Bondage: By the way
Sitaram: Yes
Bondage: I have been really into Vivekananda's works on the 4 yogas
Bondage: you remind me of him
Sitaram: Yes... I have his collected works in hard cover on my shelf... he is excellent
Sitaram: Thank you for the great complement.. he , and Ramakrishna... are two of my great heros
Bondage: Well I dont want to take up too much of your time, so thank you very much
Sitaram: Perhaps I remind you of them.. because I have read so much of their writings.. and internalized them
Sitaram: It is always my pleasure... that what the "time" is given to us for
Bondage: Well also because you are so well educated and knowledged in a very unbiased way
Sitaram: Thank you.... as I tell many people... I am simply an old parrot whose cage has been in some interesting parlours... and I repeat what I have heard... over and over
Sitaram: But... in the Svetasambra Upanisad it say of God..."Thou art the Green Parrot with the Red eyes"
Sitaram: ;-)
Bondage: What does that mean?
Sitaram: You should also try to read the Svetasambra Upanisad...
Sitaram: Ahhh.. that is a topic .. a long topic for another day...
Bondage: Very well then
Sitaram: I will ... if I have time... email you a copy of the Svetasambra Upanisad
Sitaram: And we will discuss it then...
Sitaram: But.. very simply.. it is saying.. that God is all things
Bondage: Once again, deeply appreciated but do not trouble yourself too much
Sitaram: The old man on a crutch.. the young maiden.... the green parrot with the red eyes
Sitaram: It is no trouble... I need to type a copy of that Upanisad anyway.. since it is so ... important and significant
Sitaram: But now.. perhaps we should both rest... and talk later... this has been a lot for you in one session...
Bondage: Well thanks Sitaram, yes it has been a lot and I have taken notes on your suggested readings
Bondage: So until next time
Sitaram: Very good... good night... we will talk again.. til next time
Bondage: Great, cya
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