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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
Seeker: Hello Sitaram. Did you get my e-mail? I began reading the 3rd page with the "Friendly Christian" of your webpage. For somereason I cannot bookmark it, or rather Favorite Place it.
Sitaram: hi
Sitaram: I was just editing some web pages,... and had AOL minimized... but I heard the AOL tinkle of IM
Sitaram: I received your email... thank you for the feedback
Seeker: I am ok. If you don't remember me I am the one who had the Indian ex girlfriend who I love very much
Seeker: Did you like the quote?
Sitaram: how could I not remember you.... I remember you very well... I think of you often...
Sitaram: yes... that is a very nice quote the Publican and the Pharisee
Seeker: thank you that makes me smile
Sitaram: that parable teaches a very valuable lesson... about spirituality
Sitaram: a sort of "Catch 22"....
Sitaram: namely
Sitaram: there is a hindu saying
Seeker: I agree. I immediately noticed it during service
Sitaram: the very "desire" for liberation .. (moksha)... is ITSELF (that is the DESIRE) an IMPEDIMENT to liberation
Seeker: well not immediately but it took my interest
Sitaram: and liberation for the Hindu.. is Salvation for the Christian
Seeker: hmm. What happens to the Hindu after they are Liberated?
Sitaram: also... if you ever get to read St. John Climacus.. Ladder of Divine Ascent
Seeker: I'll write that down
Sitaram: for Hindus... the soul is a ray of light from God.. which is the source of all light
Sitaram: reabsorption into the divine light of Brahman.. means no more rebirths
Seeker: what happens to the Brahman?
Seeker: oh I see
Sitaram: for some reason... God creates Other... Separation... and part of God becomes that Other... and suffers SEPARATION... but ... learns something in the process... and ultimately REUNITES with the source
Seeker: they become absorbed into God
Sitaram: Brahman always is
Sitaram: yes...
Sitaram: the point is... rebirth ceases... that is Liberation for Buddhists and Hindus and Jains.. and I suppose Sikhs
Sitaram: you should look for a book entitled "The Tao of Physics"
Seeker: I was thinking about a few things after reading your page. One thing I find curious is that most people think religions are all so much different whereas I believe the basis for them are all so similar as if they broke out from one single religion and evolved differently in different parts of the world as people did.
Sitaram: although.. I guess with you studies.. you have little time to read
Seeker: I do not study right now. I have time
Sitaram: oh... good... yes.. your thought about all religions being the same.... is a thought which I share... of having descended from a common source
Sitaram: if you have time also... look for a book entitled "God and the New Physics"
Sitaram: and also... "A History of Heresy" by David Christie-Murray
Seeker: There is always the concept of "doing the right thing", "Living impeccably" or in Christian terms not sinning. Which upon "not sinning" we go to the place of God, or it may be labeled enlightenment or labeled somethnig else. THe labels I believe are different yet the meanings seem almost the same
Seeker: I'm writting all this down
Seeker: I noticed you mention history of Heresy
SITARAM: History of Heresy was written by an Anglican priest
Sitaram: it shows the history of heresies in Christian church history....
Seeker: ok
Sitaram: after 20 years of writing researching that book... the author resigned anglican priesthood and became a Quaker... which is a radical change
Seeker: that's what you said on your page.
Sitaram: of course... the history of every religion... is a history of schism... splitting... dogmatic and doctrinal differences... no religion is free of that
Seeker: I am not too knowledgeable about the differences between Quaker and Anglicans
Sitaram: history of heresy is a small paperback.. very readable... and you will get a good overview of what happened over 2000 years of christianity
Seeker: ok I'll check that out where I work.
Seeker: Luckily I work in in a library and have many sources for my use
Sitaram: well.. it is not essential to know diff of Quaker and Anglican.. simlply that the author was so transformed by his reserch into doctrinal differences in history of christianity
Seeker: oh I see
Sitaram: hmmm.... I wonder if there is a quaker web site.. must be... I will search web later...
Seeker: I also learned some important things from your second diologue. Let me reload the page so I can refer to them.
Sitaram: ok... I am interested in such feedback
Seeker: Since my thoughts are mostly about my girlfriend, the things I learned were considering my love for her and whether she will come back at least as my friend
Sitaram: that is understandable
Seeker: Ok I will search now
Seeker: May I quote you just so we know what I'm talking about?
Sitaram: of course
Seeker quotes me from webpage: Socrates once said "Philo-sophy is the Love of Wisdom.... but God does not Love Wisdom, for He already posseses it, or IS it,... we only Love what we do not possess
Sitaram: so for there to be Love,... desire.... there must be SEPARATION this makes wisdom , not a place, but a journey
Sitaram: yes.... in relation to what Plato said in Dialogues
Sitaram: and also.. Jesus "Search the scriptures.. for therein will ye find eternal life
Seeker: Yea. It makes me question myself. Because it wasn't until she left me that I relaized that I loved her sooo much and that if I had known I loved her so much before I wouldn't have behaved selfishly like I think I did.
Sitaram: its also related to "you never miss the water til the well runs dry"
Seeker: Yea.
Sitaram: which ... is related to Rumi's words "Do not seek water.. for water is all around you... seek THIRST"
Seeker: I feel terribly guilty about the foolish things I said to her and the poor ways I behaved
Sitaram: Whih is related to Pslams "Lord I have thirsted after Thee like a deer in a waterless land
Seeker: THIRST is Love in this analogy right?
Sitaram: which is related to the words Mother Theresa put on her convent wall... the words of Christ on the cross, "I Thirst."
Seeker: how interesting. I never considered that
Sitaram: well... simply that SEPARATION... itself.. plays some crucial role... in LOVE
Seeker: I see. I am fearful that my girlfriend does not love me yet I have some intuition she is just angry at me as she is angry at the world and needs an outlet. And Anger passes and perhaps when she is nolonger angry at me we can be friends again
Sitaram: Ramakrishna... who lived in mid 1800's... said... "Just as a Mother hides from her baby... and watches the baby cry... so that the babys desire for the mother will become enflamed.. and the baby will nurse better upon reunion... so too
Sitaram: God hides himself from the devotee...
Seeker: Yes
Sitaram: BACK ok
Seeker: ok
Sitaram: you might also read anything you can find about Ramakrishna... "The Gospel of Ramakrishna"
Sitaram: or... "Ramakrishna as we knew him."
Seeker: Yes if she were to come back to me I would love her so much more intensly and show it to her.
Seeker: I of course love God and will love God so much more intensely upon Gods revelation to me.
Sitaram: I suppose... one of the poignant tragedies of our very LIFE itself... is that... only towards our LIFE'S end ... do we truly begin to realize what LIFE is.. and how we should have lived it... utilized it.. but most of us learn this lesson only too late
Seeker: I wish there were some way for her to know that without it sounding like I am baiting her or telling her things one would not think are true even though they would be for me. Oh yea tell me about it. I always say I wish I knew then what I know now
Seeker: brb
Sitaram: it is very helpful to me to talk with you... you help me focus my thoughts on important questions...
Seeker: thank you. I am thinking right now. But also getting lunch. I will return in a few moments
Sitaram: ok... thats fine
Sitaram: it is important to eat lunch... it is also important to think.... you are doing two excellent, important things..
Seeker: I just wanted to apologize again for assuming I was your first student when you have had many. It was arrogant of me, a problem of mine I need to work on
SITARAM: its ok... do not be too self conscious... become comfortable and accept yourself as you are.. and others will accept you also... but never cease trying to change who you are throught improvement
Seeker: yes I am trying. I am succeeding pretty well as a vegetarian. I have only eaten meat twice in the last 3 months however I realized when I did I didn't need to and didn;t really like it
Seeker: could you tell me what you like about Hinduism?
Sitaram: be patient... you are still young
Seeker: I know yet at times I feel weary
Sitaram: I guess what I like best... in my "brand" of hinduism.. is that I may acknowledge the "truth" of everyone elses faith... and yet in no way feel that I am compromising or denying my own faith
Seeker: that's good.
Seeker: I don't like "fundamentalists" much who believe that theirs is the Only way and that all others are wrong or "damned" as fundamentalist Christians like to preach
Sitaram: I agree
Seeker: as my mother says Fundamentalist Christians are looking for quick easy answers to difficult questions
Seeker: I mean thats just an opinion I agree with
Sitaram: this is true... in fact.. in a way.. the whole protestant doctrine of "salvation by faith alone" is... an easy way out...
Seeker: yea
Sitaram: although... it seems to be something that many need.. God is very merciful... and gives each one what each needs..
Seeker: In case you are wondering I was raised Catholic and sometimes attend church with my father who is Episcopal. The services are almost the same
Sitaram: it is good for me to know your background...
Seeker: I don't like "fundamentalists" much who believe that theirs is the Only way and that all others are wrong or "damned" as fundamentalist Christians like to preach
Sitaram: I agree
Seeker: as my mother says Fundamentalist Christians are looking for quick easy answers to difficult questions
Seeker: I mean thats just an opinion I agree with
Sitaram: this is true... in fact.. in a way.. the whole protestant doctrine of "salvation by faith alone" is... an easy way out...
Seeker: yea
Sitaram: although... it seems to be something that many need.. God is very merciful... and gives each one what each needs..
Seeker: In case you are wondering I was raised Catholic and sometimes attend church with my father who is Episcopal. The services are almost the same
Sitaram: it is good for me to know your background...
Seeker: I do not feel God is very merciful at times. Or if God is then it takes God much time to give mercy
Sitaram: St. Paul says... "All things worketh unto the good for those who... etc
Seeker: I have strong faith in God and faith that Jesus died inorder to enable us an easier or more sure route to heaven.
Sitaram: there is a story from ancient China... A man had only one horse.. and he left the barn door open one night.. and the horse escaped... so the man told his neighbor he was very unhappy
Sitaram: the neighbor said "be neither sad nor happy.. for we cannot judge the ultimate consequences of an event... so .. next day
Sitaram: the horse returned to the barn... leading with him many wild horses he had befriended in the wilderness... so the farmer went to his neighbor saying "How happy I am now... wealthy in horses
Seeker: I have read of an American Indian religion or Way of the Warrior in a couple books and it speaks of an almost impenetrable barrier into which warriors or sorcerers must pass in order to pass into the Nagual or what we would label heaven I believe that Jesus enabled us all to move through that barrier without being consumed
Sitaram: once again the neighbor said.. "Be neither happy nor sad... for we cannot know the ultimate consequences of any event
Sitaram: the next day.. the farmers son chose the most beautiful wild horse to tame... but his leg was crushed when the horse threw him... so again the farmer was sad.. and spoke to his neighbor .. who again said... "Be neither happy nor sad...
Seeker: I like this
Seeker: I think I have heard a similar parable
Sitaram: the next day... the king and his army came seeking young men to recruite.. to fight in a war in which most would surly die.... but seeing the farmer's son... with his crushed leg.. they said.. he is uselsee to us let us depart
Seeker: hmm
Sitaram: so.. once again the farmer rejoiced... and told the neighbor of his joy... and once again the neighbor replied... "Be neither happy nor sad at any event.. for we cannot know its ultimate consequences in this world of causality... END OF STORY
Seeker: or be sad or happy
Sitaram: it comforts many... it is very ancient I believe.. dating from perhaps Lao Tse author of "The Way of the Tao"... contemporaneous with Sidhartha Gautama.. the historical Buddha.. and MahaVira.. the gread Jain Saint
Seeker: I am always given that nagging feeling that if I lose my grip on things to faith that they will crumble to ruin
Seeker: It is a good story. I have heard a variation of it before. I'm not sure where. Perhaps in a dream
Sitaram: have more faith in yourself... and always remember... he who hopes for the best... but anticipates the worst... is always prepared... and never disappointed..
Seeker: I would not like to be a business man who feels he must constantly hold tightly (or in control) of everything
Sitaram: yes.. that is difficult...
Seeker: that is a good story but I cannot remember where I have heard the variation of it before.
Seeker: it's not important
Sitaram: I am sure there are variations
Sitaram: the important thing is to retain its essence in your heart...and actualize it in your daily living
Seeker: let me read it again. I always have to think about what you say for a long time
Seeker: no perhaps it was that story. I like it much. It helps me to remember to not worry and just calmly have patience and go about my life and things will work out on their own
Seeker: thank you for telling me it.
Sitaram: it is good to live with calm and equanimity,.. and yet not fall into apathy or indifference... or hopelessness
Seeker: I know. I am aware of the balance. Not worrying and just letting things happen as they do does not mean becoming irresponsible
Sitaram: sometimes Socrates repeated himself in the Dialogues... and if someone remarked that he had said that before... he simply replied "Dis Kai Tris Ta Kala"... "Twice and Thrice the Beautiful"
Seeker: ah yes. definitely
Sitaram: ;-)
Seeker: Your telling me the story feels as if it were the first time I heard it
Sitaram: we must be in the proper state... mood.. to see .. to hear... to remember
Seeker: right
Seeker: I agree
Sitaram: ;-)
Seeker: I will remember that story so that I can recite it to others. perhaps even my girlfriend when she comes
Sitaram: also look for "Every Day Zen" by Charlotte Joko Beck
Seeker: that sounds interesting. I have read about Zen before.
Sitaram: that book is one of the best... it will help you in your daily life
Sitaram: that book is one of the best... it will help you in your daily life
Seeker: I circled that one on my list
Seeker: and have History of Heresy underlined
Sitaram: very good
Seeker: I think I miss being a student
Sitaram: yes... it is a luxury to be free to study all the time
Seeker: I graduated last year and am now in limbo between undergraduate and graduate school paying off loans and seemingly going nowhere, but it is the perfect time to work on myself which is due and I denied for many years trying to fulfill "societies requirements" on me
Seeker: I don't know if I remember telling you I studied International Relations and Political Science and learned Spanish and small amounts of other languages. I also was accepted to the peace corps (which I do remember telling you) and I hope someday to accomplish great things in world peace and also abolish human rights violations and help many other things
Seeker: oh
Seeker: whether I do it in a small or large extent I will be happy
Sitaram: the important thing is to try.... remember it is not the destination... but the journey
Sitaram: Rabbinical Talmudic tradition says... "Save one person... and you have saved the whole world..."
Seeker: if I could save one man I would be content. Right I am understanding that now. THe journey
Sitaram: Rabbinical Talmudic tradition says... "Save one person... and you have saved the whole world..."
Seeker: ok perhaps limbo was the wrong word. I just use it as a metaphor for where I feel I am right now
Seeker: perhaps I am just on recess
Sitaram: It is an ok word... in that context... I just wanted to remind you of its theological origins
Seeker: thank you
Seeker: thank you
Seeker: I wasn't aware of it's definition
Seeker: as you put it
Sitaram: many people are not aware of that
Seeker: I always thought it meant neither heaven nor hell, or rather an in between stagnant place
Sitaram: for Roman Catholics... it means neigher Purgatory, nor Heaven, nor Hell....
Seeker: where souls go that have made it to niether place. Where ghosts inhabit. Between the states of heaven and earth. That Native American religion also speaks of it yet with different labels
Sitaram: let me ask you a question
Sitaram: the things which come out in our dialogues... are very useful and interesting to others... spiritually...
Seeker: The one I speak of is from books I read by both Carlos Casteneda: or the Yaqui [indian] way of knowledge and by Dan Milman The Way of the Peacful Warrior
Seeker: yes you may
Seeker: I don't mind
Sitaram: if I change your screen name to Seeker: instead of .... and change to "my girl friend'
Seeker: in fact I'm flattered
Sitaram: so its ok to .... oh good
Seeker: that's nice
Sitaram: I didnt want to offend you by putting it out there without asking.... since you would see it one day ;-)
Seeker: it flatters me
Seeker: I am copying our diologue for future introspection also. If you don't mind
Seeker: for me to read over what you tell me
Sitaram: certainly.. but.. you can also just print it from my web site as well... but you may make your own copy
Seeker:: I am a slow thinker yet believe I am sometimes more thourough. FOr example, in my math classes in college I would be nearly the last to leave on a exam day however I would score as one of the highest. One time I did score the highest with 100%. I am proud of my ability how slow it may be
Sitaram: I am exactly the same way....
Seeker:: I don't think timed tests are fair
Sitaram: ME neither
Seeker:: I think they teach the wrong things. Things not carefully thought out can cause people to act rashly and cause trouble and even war as I think has happened in history
Sitaram: I agree
Seeker:: brb I have potatoes on the stove
Sitaram: ok Forward to Page 18 Back to Page 16 ..... or all the way back to Page 1
