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(Total activity, all pages, all sites, in page reloads, since 9/21/2000)
someone whom I will call "Moslem Debater" ask me "What is your opinion of the Islamic Faith"
for me... and most Hindus.... when Moslems bow to Mecca in prayer... (where the sacred Kabba stone is located)... or when they make pilgrimage to Mecca.. and encircle Kabba stone... 7 times... for Hindus that is worship of ShivaLingam stone... sorry no offense just being honest
Bowing to a stone ... is bowing to a stone.... is bowing to a stone.... sorry.... no offense... but you asked my opinion... and I am Hindu....... by the way, as a Hindu, I think bowing to stones is just fine....
An interesting historical fact... after the death of Prophet Mohammed... the First Caliph... had all variant copies of Koran destroyed.... so the Koran we have is not necessarily the original... but its what that Caliph saw fit to allow...
If I would ever consider being Islamic.... it would have to be Sufi... they are the mystical branch of Islam... but the Orthodox Suni and Shiite consider them heretics... and have executed them in past
But then... all my life... I have always been attracted to the mystic , trancendental spectrum of any religion
if I were Jewish... I would be hasidic... probably and study Kabbala on the side
for me... when the Prophet/Patriarch Jacob... has is dream in Old testament about ladder from earth to heaven... when he wakes up... he erects a stone and pours oil on it.... that too is Shivalingam.... just like Kabba stone
i even asked a Jewish Rabbi if there is any Talmudic commentary on the meaning of Jacobs act with the stone... but he said... it is never explained in Judaism...
I believe that... just like it says in Fifth Surah... around verse 43... "Allah CHOSE to create people as different religions, for his own purposes.. and he tells us to compete with each other... IN DOING GOOD WORKS...
SO there is the Koran telling us that it is Allahs will that there be Hindus.... and Buddhists, etc
you must try to understand... I do not see the Kabba stone as a Sivalingam BECAUSE I AM HINDU.... rather I BECAME HINDU... precisely BECAUSE I percieve the Kabba in Mecca as a Sivalingam, as well as the stone which Patriarch Jacob annointed... it is in my particular personal nature, to see in this way,... fifth Surah says Allah created me this way,.. and that its ok...
I have stated very clearly my Hindu beliefs... to which I am entitled.... the Kabba stone is, for me, a ShivaLingam.....
In the Svetasvatar Upanishad (white horse).....God speaks, saying : "I am the source of every sacred scripture.... I am the source of every Religious Creed" ... since God may be thought of as beyond Being and Non-being... since being and non-existense have their source in God.... then perhaps God is even the source of Atheism..
Eastern theologies stress that "God does not EXIST".... in the sense that God is the source of BEING and NON-BEING.... and cannot be diminished in his Majesty or Soverignty... by partaking or participating Himself in the dualistic attribute of EXISTENCE
In Hindu belief, God is One, but has THREE primary aspects, a Trinity like Christian's (Brahman-Creator,Vishnu-Preserver,Shiva-Destroyer) with incarnation/avatars like Jesus, but also Krishna, Ram... but God is so powerful.. that God makes ALL religions and scriptures and worship to be true... God is not limited by human concept of contradiction...
from the Hindu point of view, to say that God cannot deceive, is to limit His Omnipotence,... it is related to the Good/evil problem.. how can a Good God create a world in which there is evil so , the Hindu answer is that God is a Good beyond good and evil... and a Truth beyond truth and falsehood
.... but to fully appreciate this belief,... it is necessary for you to understand many other scriptures and religions....
God is beyond good and evil... consider then Jesus tells the apostles to go and TAKE a donkey and a colt of a donkey... (for Palm Sunday)... and if anyone asks ... say "The Master needs it"... well... stop and think... THATS STEALING... but then again , everythin belongs to God... so ITS NOT STEALING...
God's request to Abraham, to sacrifice Isaac, is a request to commit murder,... but Abraham unhesitatingly complies with God's request, not because Abraham fears God, but because God is beyond murder, beyond good and evil, beyond truth and falsehood...
Moslems limit Allah... by saying Allahu Akbar... Allah is Great... this is a limiting of Gods Power... Hindus say God is Great.. but also infinitesimal.... One... but many..... with form yet formless.... western religions LIMIT Gods omnipotence to FORMLESSNESS
WHY should God be bound by finite human logic.... ? why cant God be all things at once... why is God not beyond the frail human concept of truth and falsehood... and aristotelian syllogistic reasoning?
Eastern theologies stress that "God does not EXIST".... in the sense that God is the source of BEING and NON-BEING.... and cannot be diminished in his Majesty or Soverignty... by partaking or participating Himself in the dualistic attribute of EXISTENCE
I have only stated these things because someone asked me my opinions and beliefs... now you want to rob me of my beliefs against my will.... and in violation of Allahs explicit commandment in Glorious Koran... "If you compete, compete in GOOD WORKS"
and I say,why oh why is it so important for Moslems to make everyone Islamic, for Christians to make everyone Christian... they must have very weak faiths and be very insecure people.. to act in this way... and not respect the free will with God/Allah gave to each Human...
I answer over and over and over... and quote from Koran... but.... you do not honer commands of Koran.. for it says.. No conversion by force... and you are trying to force me to agree to your viewpoints...
God is so merciful that he creates a religion and a scripture to fit the personality of each ethnic group of people.... the Moslems need a religion like Islam.... they need Holy wars... and a justice which severs the hand of the thief..... and they need to believe that only they posses the truth... truly Allah is very compassionate
if the Kabba stone is not Holy and Sacred... why not destroy it... and eliminate the possibly of peoople perceiving it as idol worship.... but if IT IS HOLY... then why not worship it...
God is so merciful that he creates a religion and a scripture to fit the personality of each ethnic group of people.... the Moslems need a religion like Islam.... they need Holy wars... and a justice which severs the hand of the thief..... and they need to believe that only they posses the truth... truly Allah is very compassionate
in Koran 2:257 "Let there be no compulsion in religion" and
Koran 5:48 "To every one have We given a law and a way...made And if Allah had pleased, he would have [all humankind] one people [people of one religion]. But he hath done otherwise, that He might try you in that which He hath severally given unto you; wherefore PRESS FORWARD IN GOOD WORKS. Unto God shall ye return, and He will tell you that concerning which ye disagree."
the first verse of the Koran... "In the Name of Allah, the Beneficint the Merciful...." but in 4:56 we read "Lo! Those who disbelieve our revelations, We shall expose them to fire. As often as their skins are consumed... WE SHALL EXCHANGE THEM FOR FRESH SKINS!!!....THAT THEY MAY TASTE THE TORMENT!!!."...doesnt sound too merciful or compassionate
Koran explains two things VERY CLEARLY... #1..Allah has created ME with Hindu Beliefs..... and #2... Allah as Deceiver (one of the 99 names of Allah)....will cast me even more deeply into my own beliefs...so, why do Moslems foolishly try to convince me of Islamic Beliefs.... dont they respect the will of Allah???? the words of the Prophet Mohammed???
it was a Moslem in this room who first asked me...WHAT I BELIEVE... but when I honestly answer... then Moslems cant accept it... they only want to hear other Moslems agreeing with them... and they cant even accept the Sufis... but consider them heretics and execute them...
and yet... the obvious Hindu understanding of 4:56 in the Koran... is that.... the Fresh Skin which the unbeliever is given ... IS ACTUALLY RE-BIRTH... reincarnation.... now THAT IS MERCIFUL!!!!
I have done my best... more than most... I have read the Koran cover to cover in English... I have visited Majid a dozen times, done Wudu... Racas.... etc.... but I refer my Hindu beliefs and Scriptures.... why cant people accept that....
For someone to understand MY beliefs,.. you would actually have to BECOME me.... become HINDU... the same for me to actually understand YOUR beliefs...I would actualy have to become Moslem or Christian.... cant you understand the futility of trying to persuade the whole world of you Islamic or Christian Faith...
the Moslem solution is to cut off a thiefs hand.... and perhaps castrate the rapist (but .. I dont know..)... so... its pretty easy not to steal or rape anymore with a mutilated body.... but that is Koranic justice
(Now... this particular Moslem.. in chat.. tries to set a trap for me.. asking me "If Allah creates a man.. and that man commits rape... Is Allah pleased?".... so I answer)
come to think of it HOW CAN YOU BE CERTAIN THAT ABRAHAM DIDNT RAPE THE MOTHER OF ISHMAEL????? I mean she was a slave (or servant)... and was GIVEN to Abraham.. right.... hmmmm. interesting point
Genesis ch 16 definitely leaves open the possibility that Hagar was raped against her will...... most definitely..look "Sarai said to Abram... See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her. ".... "Then Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and GAVE HER...".... sounds like rape to me...
Now... since Allah foreknows ALL THINGS from before the creation of the world.... ALLAH also foreknew that, when Genesis Ch. 16 was written... that I would suspect RAPE... so... to emphasize the free-will of Hagar... Allah would have added an extra verse to clarify her willingness.. just as He added that she was an Egyptian...
.. the non-Islamic world owes you a debt of gratitute for revealing the rape of Hagar... concealed in the Hebrew scriptures all these centuries...
so, in answer to your original question "If a man is a Rapist, and God created that man,is God pleases with that mans action...".. obviously from Genesis Sarai and Abram were rapists, .. raping Hagar... but since Allah is beyond Good and Evil... and can make Evil good... Allah made Ishmael the branch of the Islamic religion and nation
A moslem was trying to trip me up one day by asking me, "If a man is a Rapist, and God created that man, is God pleases with that mans action...".. but I "got him real good by answering: "obviously from Genesis Sarai and Abram were rapists,.. raping Hagar... but since Allah is beyond Good and Evil... and can make Evil good... Allah made Ishmael the branch of the Islamic religion and nation
poor poor Moslem Debater.. ..... you are so tragically desperate... you didnt think I would come up with such a clever theological response to your trick question about rape... ha ha ha
I agree with the statement.. that God is beyond good and evil... consider then Jesus tells the apostles to go and TAKE a donkey and a colt of a donkey... (for Palm Sunday)... and if anyone asks ... say "The Master needs it"... well... stop and think... THATS STEALING... but then again , everythin belongs to God... so ITS NOT STEALING...
Moslems believe that if you die and go to heaven.. you have beautiful wide-eyed DANCING GIRLS.. and that you can have all the wine to drink that you want.. and it wont give a headache... (it says these things in Koran)... and yet Moslems arnt allowed to drink alchohol.... LOL.... (and no mention of what the women in heaven get ;-) no wide-eyed dancing BOYS)
even the Moslem Fast RAMadan, has the Sacred name of RAM embeded in it.. and in Mecca the Kabba stone is a Shivalingam... oh how merciful God is to all people
by the way... I have a complete transcript of all my THEOLOGICAL replies to these Islamic issues... complete with quotations from the Koran and Genesis, with chapter and verse references... if anyone would like an email
(The Moslem Debater now ridicules me , saying that I enjoy raping the untouchable caste.. and that Brahmins rape untouchables... and also ridicules Hinduism, saying that we believe that the Shudra Caste came from Gods feet)
... I do not believe that I have personally attack you in any of this... in such a fashion as you ... saying that I am "raping untouchables"... you just demonstrate what a lo-class person you are by such remarks... you asked me what I though of rape and I pointed out that Abraham very possible raped Hagar.... which produced Ishmael.. and Islam...
Moslem Debater .. if you were realy genuinely religious... you would be somewhere praying right now... and the required time for Moslem prayer has already probably come and gone for you.... but you wouldnt be wasting your time fighting with me.. and hurling insults......
a famous verse from the Gita says "It is necessary that pleasures and pains come in life... but that person who experiences them BOTH with even-keeled equanimity of spirit... is ... wise"
speaking of Hearts...Bertrand Russel (mathematician) pointed out..."If God is everywhere present... He must be in satan's heart, but then satan , having God in his heart, cant be all bad...but if God is NOT in satan's heart... then God is not truly OMNIPRESENT"
Moslem Debater .. it must be your vast education and learning, which causes you to repeat... yourself so frequently...look.. Titanium... just for the sake of argument... suppose I suddenly "saw the light"... took Shahad... became Moslem... well.. what then ... you would still be faced with 1/2 billion other Hindus to hate..right
you know, Moslem Debater is teaching all of us some very valuable lessons... and we owe him a debt of gratitude.... I have learned a lot today.. really... im serious...
hey.... genesis says Woman comes from Adams rib... is that so different ... or so terrible... as believing that the different Castes or Varnas came from the different parts of "Gods Body" or so very significant in the big picture..??? Even St. Paul.. I believe ... speaks of all people being, different members of "the same body".. with "gifts differeng"
and Genesis also says that Adam came from the soil... earth... dust... infact the root word for the name Adam means "soil"...
gosh... the longer I spend with the insulting Moslem Debater ... the more I learn about religion...this is astounding
I suppose every attempt at humility is motivated by pride.... ironically sort of the "Catch 22" of spirituality...
the Lord's prayer is interesting in the Original greek.... for example the first mention of Heaven... is Ouranos... (singular)... Our Father, Who art in Heaven....but the second mention is plural Ouranois... "on earth as it is in the Heavens"..I am sure there is some subtle mystical teaching hidden in the singular and plural use of the word Heaven in the Lords Prayer
in Lords Prayer, most interesting is "give us this day OUR DAILY BREAD"...IN greek "our daily bread" is "arton eemon ton EPI-OUSION"... WHICH literally means.... the bread which is ABOVE BEING (ousia)..(existence).
elsewhere, Jesus teaches.. "do not worry what you shall eat... the birds do not sow or reap... but are fed", so wouldnt it be strange for Jesus to teach people to pray for "daily bread" in the Lords Prayer?
so the interesting interpretation of the Lords Prayer... is that one is not asking for "daily bread".. in the sense of wonderbread ;-)... but the Eucharist... "super-substantial" bread
which sort of goes hand in hand with the verse from the Epistles.."every Good gift, and every perfect gift, is from above, and commeth down from Thee, the Father of Lights"...the early greek church fathers, asked... "why does it say every GOOD gift, and every PERFECT gift?"
and they answered that every Good gift is the rain, sunlight, crops, fruitfulness of the earth, but every PERFECT gift is.. the SACREMENTS...
At this point.. Moslem Debater leaves the chat room...
Ahhhhh,,, I finally drove Moslem Debater away with the Lords Prayer... Thank you Lord Jesus....
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