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Last Updated: Friday 18-May-2001 16:54
LAUNCH INTERVIEW
Emerging from the Detroit
hip-hop underground this year with the
hit single "My Name Is," Dr. Dre protégé Eminem--otherwise
known
as "Slim Shady"--attacked the mainstream with a slew of ill
beats
and outrageous lyrics about drugs, violence, and a painful childhood.
But like other white rappers
who have taken a beating in the
credibility department, Eminem hopes to attain the street cred that
has eluded his Caucasian counterparts. Now that he's riding high on
the success of his major-label outing, The Slim Shady LP, Eminem is
starting his own label to further the careers of his fellow Motor City
rappers and is even thinking about an acting career.
The lyrically extreme and
musically daring Eminem sat down with
LAUNCH's rap/ R&B editor Billy Johnson Jr. recently to discuss his
lyrics, drug-addled teen years, abusive mother, and stormy relations
with the mother of his daughter. Video excerpts of the conversation
can be viewed in Issue No. 30 of LAUNCH on CD-ROM; an exclusive
live performance of "My Name Is..." can also be viewed on the
same disc.
LAUNCH: There are some interesting styles of hip-hop coming from
the Detroit area. Is it a coincidence that artists like you,
Kid Rock, and Insane Clown Posse--groups that are totally
different musically--come from the same region?
EMINEM: Being from Detroit
and being on some different shit, I don't
think it's a coincidence. You've got the East Coast and
you've got the West Coast. The East Coast is predominantly
known for lyrics and the West Coast is predominantly
known for gangsta shit, you know what I'm sayin'?
Detroit is in between both of them. So when
you mix the two, you get something crazy. Kid Rock, Esham,
and myself are influenced by both coasts, so when you
blend the two of them together, you get some different
shit. Which is cool. That's what it's supposed to be.
We're not supposed to sound like we're from either coast.
I want my shit to sound like it's somewhere in the middle,
which it is.
LAUNCH: Has there been a
resolution to the feud between you
and Insane Clown Posse?
EMINEM: I don't think I
take the beef as seriously as they do,
because I don't consider them artists. They look at me as
an artist. I think they get more uptight about it. I can
look at them and laugh. They can't do anything to me.
What can they do to me? They have no credibility, no
respect, no talent, they have nothing. All they can do is
diss me vocally, they can't diss me lyrically. There's nothing
they can do to me as far as the music goes. I don't take it
as seriously as they do and I think that frustrates them.
I think it's funny.
LAUNCH: When you were starting
out on the Detroit hip-hop scene,
it wasn't necessarily easy for you to get a lot of respect
from your peers. Can you recall the first time you got
respect you were looking for?
EMINEM: I remember I used
to go to this place called the Rhythm
Kitchen way back in the day. I was probably 16 or 17.
The first time I grabbed the mic, I got booed before I even
said anything. As I started to rap, the boos just got louder
and louder and louder until I just got off the mic.
At this place called the Hip-Hop Shop, every Saturday,
MC's would come up there and rhyme. The first time I ever
got respect was the first time I grabbed the mic at the
Hip-Hop Shop. I had said some shit and people was quiet
at first, then cheers and applause, and it got louder and
louder. That was the spot I started going to every
Saturday. They would have official announce battles every
couple of months and I kept winning them.
LAUNCH: Was it because you
went to a different spot or was it that
you were getting better at rhyming?
EMINEM: I think it was something
a little different about me; I started
growing up and I just got better. At 15 or 16, I was whack.
I didn't know how I wanted to sound, I didn't know
anything. But at 18, 19, I started learning. This is how I
should sound on the mic, learning how to battle, practising
freestyle. That was what I was known for in Detroit, in the
underground for a couple of years before all this happened.
LAUNCH: The thing that's
missing in hip-hop today is that very few
people have anything interesting to say. You have a lot of
interesting lyrics...things that make the listener want to go
back and rewind and listen again. What is your approach to
writing? Are you a perfectionist?
EMINEM: I'm definitely a
perfectionist. I make my music for me. I know
how I want it to sound. I don't think about if anyone else is
going to like it. I listen to it and make it for me, so that I'm
satisfied with it. If I am, then everybody else will like it. If I
say the word "the" wrong, I'll go back and change it.
Usually when I write my songs, I write the verses and then
sum them up with a hook. But my delivery and the way I say
things across the mic, I make sure that shit is perfect, for
me, so I can listen to it a million times and not find a flaw
in it.
LAUNCH: How long is the
song writing process usually?
EMINEM: Some songs take
longer than others to write, it just
depends on what type of mood I'm in or what I'm thinking
at that time. I don't know, "My Name Is..." was really simple
to write. I thought of the hook right away, even before I
wrote the song. Sometimes I'll do story raps and have to
come back the next day to finish it. "Brain Damage" took a
couple of days to write. It just depends on the mood and
how the shit is flowing.
LAUNCH: "Brain Damage"
really stands out for me. I really like the
story. I think anybody can relate to it. Is it a true story?
EMINEM: "Brain Damage"
is a true story, except for my brain falling
out of my head. I used to get harassed by these bullies
in school. This one in particular, because I got a concussion
and almost died. When I wrote that, I was summing up my
whole years of grade school, junior high, high school.
The second verse I started getting really truthful.
But when I write a story, I don't want the shit to get
boring, so I lay down the truth as the foundation and then
mix it with a little imagination.
LAUNCH: Your writing is
really honest and almost comedic in a lot of
ways. Do you think people have the right perception of you?
EMINEM: I think the young
people are getting it. The older people are
getting it confused, tending to take my shit too literal.
I don't care, it's funny to me, because if I say my fucking
brain fell out of my skull, and they believe it, what's wrong
with them? The younger people have a sense of humor and
can determine right from wrong. Kids are a lot smarter than
we think they are. I only get flack from the white-collar
motherfuckers who don't know about hip-hop anyway.
When N.W.A. came out, look how literal everyone was
taking it. It was entertainment and people didn't
understand it. If N.W.A. said, "I'm gonna shoot you,"
they believed: "Oh my God, they're gonna shoot
somebody." Maybe Dre or Ice Cube was mad when they
wrote that, but it doesn't mean they feel that way
constantly. When I'm writing I may feel that way at the
time, so I sit down and write that.
LAUNCH: Tupac pretty much
wrote the same way.
EMINEM: He had his positive
songs, negative songs, angry songs,
just whatever mood he was going through at the time.
That's what writers do.
LAUNCH: Kid Rock said when
you write your lyrics you don't write
them in paragraph form--they're just all over the page.
Can you describe the way you write your lyrics?
EMINEM: I collect ideas
throughout the week. It might take a while,
but I write on a sheet of paper, scattered ideas, words
and metaphors. When I have enough ideas, I'll piece the
shit together. I do it purposely so that if a rhyme sheet is
lost, whoever finds it won't know what it means. Half a
sentence will be here, another half here...a word over here.
I don't know how I started doing it. When I write a full
song now, I start at the corner of the paper, I write in
slants. I don't know why I do that shit neither, but I do.
LAUNCH: Is writing therapeutic
for you? Do you cope with things
better once you write them down?
EMINEM: Yeah, definitely.
My shit is like therapy for me, not only
when I'm writing it, but also when I'm in the booth saying it.
It's a way to get shit off my chest. On my album, I've got my
happy songs, crazy songs, serious songs--all jokes aside.
Those are songs like, "Okay, I've slit my wrists 90 million
times, I cut my own fucking head off, but this is how I really
feel." I put those songs on my album so you could see for
yourself. It's not rocket science here. It's so clear when I'm
joking and when I'm serious, but some people just don't
get it.
LAUNCH: This is not a diss,
but have you ever talked to anyone about
your thoughts, like with a therapist or whatever?
EMINEM: Have I ever gone
to counselling? I got a doctor for that shit.
But Dre ain't helping me for shit.
LAUNCH: Will your next album
be the same or will it be different?
EMINEM: It's gonna be a
little different, probably worse. Every time
I hear critics talk shit about me, when they diss me, they
only egg me on and they only make me madder. This album
might have been here, but the next one will be out there
somewhere. Each time I do an album, I'll just keep taking
it further.
LAUNCH: You mentioned to
me earlier that Master Ace is one of your
favourite artists. What is it about his music that you
relate to?
EMINEM: Master Ace was ahead
of his time. I feel like when that
album came out, I went and copped it. MC Proof was the
first one who turned me on to the first album, when the
second album came out, I thought it should have gone
double-, triple-platinum, but it was so ahead of its time
that people didn't understand. He was trying to say
that hip-hop was straying from the lyrical side. I think he
was directing things toward the West Coast, like hip-hop
was getting too much like "I'll shoot you, stab you, and kill
you," and we need to get back to the lyrics.
LAUNCH: You have a tattoo
of a mushroom on your arm. Is that a
drug reference?
EMINEM: I just got it. I
had to show it off. I try not to fuck with
mushrooms that much any more because that shit gets me
too out of my mind. I go through phases with drugs and
shit. I have a different drug of choice every other month.
If I do too much of something, I say, "I'm never doing that
again!" I might stray from it for a little bit, and go back to
it later. Mushrooms make me too fucking giggly; I just laugh
at everything. I don't like to laugh too much.
LAUNCH: You say a lot of
outrageous things in your lyrics. How are
you in your personal life? Are you an outrageous person?
EMINEM: I do a lot of crazy
shit that maybe normal people wouldn't
do, but I don't know what the fuck is normal. I don't
consider myself insane. I don't walk around like a fucking
lunatic. Day to day, I consider myself pretty normal. My
thoughts, what I write, I think other people think a lot of
the same shit, I just think they don't say it. I may think a
little bit different than the average person, but how I act,
dress and carry myself, I think it's normal.
LAUNCH: Lil' Kim is criticised
a lot for being speaking her mind and
being outrageous. But people come up to her on the street
and tell her that they can relate. Do you get the same
reaction?
EMINEM: Yeah, I get a lot
of that. Lil' Kim speaks her mind and says
what she wants to say. There's no in between, people will
either love you for it or hate you for it. That's what I've
found just on a street level--fans, and people on the
street--they either can't stand me or love me for telling
the truth and saying what's on my mind.
LAUNCH: Are there any limitations
on what you say? Are there some
things you won't touch?
EMINEM: My thing is this,
if I'm sick enough to think it, then I'm sick
enough to say it. Why are these thoughts in my head?
A lot of people think shit, they just don't say it. If I'm crazy
enough to think it, then I'm crazy enough to say it. That's
how I base my whole shit. I think there's a reason why
I think this way. I don't think I say the things I say for no
reason. I write it down and say it.
LAUNCH: Tell me about the
song "Bonnie & Clyde Part II."
EMINEM: I go through phases
with my daughter's mother
constantly--we've been going off and on for nine
years--different phases of our relationship where I want
to kill her. I don't know if you ever felt like you wanted to
kill someone, but there have been times, literally, where I
want to kill her. I've had songs about killing her for five
years now that nobody's even heard. I've killed her, like,
11 times. The song "Bonnie & Clyde Part II," really "Part
I"
is what happened before I killed her and stuffed her in the
trunk. It's like the argument that took place. It's crazy.
I don't want to give too much away. I want people to hear
it. When I did it, I was kind of high, so I came back and
listened to it the next day, I was just like, "Whoa."
LAUNCH: What does your daughter's
mother think about all this?
EMINEM: She thinks I'm crazy.
She thinks I'm fucking nuts. When I did
"Bonnie & Clyde '97" she was mad because I took my
daughter into the studio and put her vocals on it. At the
time, she was keeping me from my daughter. I barely got to
see her at all. So when I did get to see her, I wanted to use
that to get back at her. My daughter was being used as a
weapon against me. I put the song on an EP that was only
released in Detroit. I never thought it would be as big as it
is. She was mad. She thinks I'm fucking crazy, insane for
real. But it's all good. But maybe I am!
LAUNCH: What kind of influence
does your daughter have on you?
EMINEM: She keeps me from
being too extreme. I realize that no
matter how crazy I act onstage or how wild I may get,
there's got to be a limit. I can't step out of a certain
boundary--I have to be here for her. Her father has to
remain alive. I have to maintain. She really helps me when
I'm about to do something too stupid. All I have to do is
think about Hailie. She keeps me in check, definitely.
LAUNCH: Do you have a name
for your next album?
EMINEM: I've got a title,
but I don't want to reveal it yet, because
I change my mind a lot. I don't want to say it's this and it
comes out and it's called something else.
LAUNCH: Will your next album
this possibly be your last?
EMINEM: I won't know until
it's finished and I put it out.
LAUNCH: Even though you've
been working underground for years,
now that you are well-known, why would your next album
be your last?
EMINEM: Just depends on
how I feel after it's done. Right now,
My little girl is three years old. I'm missing the best years
of her life. I'm not seeing her grow up. There's gonna be a
time when I have to think, "Yo, do I want this? Or do I want
this?" If I can't find a balance, I'll have to make a choice.
I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, you know
what I'm saying? I'll have to see what happens with the
next album, then I can make a decision, but right now,
I really can't.
LAUNCH: Do you think you
could write a song about dealing with
an issue like that?
EMINEM: Yeah, I can make
a song about anything. I probably will
write a song about that. I just started working on my next
album recently. I don't know where it's gonna go. I know
where it's headed towards...but I don't know where I will
totally take it yet.
LAUNCH: Whenever someone
mentions the song "Guilty Conscience,"
they bring up your comment about Dre and Dee Barnes.
How did that come up? How did you deal with it and what
was Dre's reaction?
EMINEM: When we did "Guilty
Conscience," it was pretty much Dre's
concept to come up with a song with the devil on one
shoulder, and the angel on the other. Like in Animal House,
the dude was about to rape the girl, he had a devil on one
shoulder telling him to do it and an angel on the other
telling him not to. That's kind of the concept I based it on.
Dre lately has been on the positive tip, trying to clean up
his image and shit. I'm at the stage where I don't give a
fuck. Of course, I was the devil, he was the angel. I came
up with the three scenarios: The liquor store, the rape,
and shit. At the end of the song, I felt I was losing the
battle, so I felt I had to take pokes at him. Like, "Are you
gonna listen to him?" And I remember when he slapped
Dee Barnes. So when I wrote it, I didn't tell him I was going
to say it. He fell over in his chair laughing, so I guess it was
all good. But I was thinking the whole time, "What is he
going to say about this?"
LAUNCH: What do you think
about the idea that you're the one rap
artist that's bringing Dre back to prominence? Does that
pressure you? How do you feel about that?
EMINEM: I wouldn't say I
was bringing Dre back. I don't think he
ever left. "Phone Tap," on the last album, The Firm, was
dope to me. "Phone Tap" was one of the dopiest beats
I ever heard. I just want to return the favor. Dre basically
saved my life; my shit was going no where. Dre took me
in and taught me a lot, not just rap-wise, but business-wise.
Whatever I can do to return the favor, I'm here. We've got
a chemistry that works and we'll make it work for however
long it works.
LAUNCH: When you say Dre
saved your life, do you mean you would
have left hip-hop all together and found something else
to do?
EMINEM: I would have probably
quit in '97 if it weren't for Dre. My
daughter was one at the time. I couldn't afford to buy her
diapers. I didn't have a job. I had job after job after job
and just kept getting fired. I didn't have a high school
diploma. I failed ninth grade three times. I was basically
going nowhere. When I made the Slim Shady EP, I told the
production people, "Yo, if this doesn't work, I'm about to be
23, I gotta quit, get a job, do something." We just so
happened to go to L.A. that same year and Dre heard the
tape, gave us a call. I was reaching a boiling point, doing
a lot of drugs and fucked-up shit because I was so
depressed. So when I say Dre saved my life, I mean he
literally saved my life, and I feel like I owe him a lot.
LAUNCH: Dr. Dre 2001: What
is your involvement with that?
EMINEM: I've been in there
pretty much from the beginning, just
being involved, giving my input, writing, doing whatever
I can do to make the shit hot. The album is over-the-top,
definitely some classical shit. It's going to be bigger than
my album. I know this for a fact. But it's hot, man. I don't
want to give any details. I just want people to be surprised.
I want to sit back and say, "I told you!"
LAUNCH: To be linked with
one of hip-hop's best producers, what
does it say about you sticking to your guns and not giving
up or changing what you do, when you thought people
wouldn't accept you?
EMINEM: I think that's why
people do accept me because from Slim
Shady EP to LP, I haven't changed shit. "My Name Is..." blew
up commercially, but we had no plans for that. We just
thought it was a hot song and we put it out. Now, you've
got underground kids talking shit about me like I'm a pop
artist because I made one song that was catchy. My album
is probably the rawest album this year, as far as material
and shit. It's not an egotistical assumption, that's just the
way I feel. I haven't changed shit lyrically, style-wise.
I'm still me. I could have made a commercial album. But I
didn't. My album is underground as fuck, but the single blew
up, people heard it and bought the rest of the album.
My shit is underground. If I've got some appealing shit, is
that my fault? That's what you're supposed to do, right?
Otherwise you stay underground and you stay broke as
fuck.
LAUNCH: Do you still battle?
EMINEM: I fuck around with
my friends and crewmembers and shit,
but as far as me going out and getting in a battle with
MC's, I'm a marked man. Everybody knows everything
about me, and I wouldn't know anything about the person
I'm facing off against. I don't really choose to do that.
Sometimes at shows, I'll pull someone onstage to battle
just to make them look stupid. Some people think that
I don't have it anymore. "Eminem made an album and
now it's double-platinum and he can't battle no more."
That's bullshit. I do it for the fun now. I don't take it as
seriously as I used to take it. Back then when I was coming
up through the underground, it was a do-or-die situation.
When I lost the Rap Olympics, I was ready to kill somebody.
There was a $500 prize and a Rolex. I was evicted from my
house and I needed that money. Now, I do it for the fun.
LAUNCH: Is there a female
celebrity out there that you'd like to
get with?
EMINEM: Female celebrity?
Mariah Carey. If she's reading this...
I love you!
LAUNCH: I understand that
people have questioned whether you're
black or white.
EMINEM: Whether or not I'm
white? Last time I checked I was,
I guess. I looked in the mirror this morning and was combing
my hair and I said, "Wow, I'm sure white today!" I was born
this way, I don't think I have much say in the matter.
LAUNCH: I understand that
you have a song on the Wild Wild West
movie soundtrack. Who are playing with on the track and
what is the song about?
EMINEM: It's me and Dre.
It's a Western theme. We wanted to tie in
with the wild, wild West for the soundtrack. At the same
time, it's a sneak preview of what's coming up on the
Chronic II. We're plugging Chronic II and still staying tied
into the movie.
LAUNCH: Do you spend a lot
of time on the Internet?
EMINEM: I don't spend much
time on the Internet. I don't really get
into computers and shit. I don't have the patience to sit
down. I'm a jittery person; I don't like to stay in one place
too long, unless I'm writing. And sometimes when I'm
writing, I get up and I pace the room. Sitting at a computer,
I can't really function like that. I look every now and then to
see what's going on.
LAUNCH: What do you think
about groups like the Backstreet Boys and 'N Sync?
EMINEM: I'm not mad at them--Backstreet
Boys, or whatever--they're
just doing whatever it is they do. It's not the same type of
music I'm doing, so I don't feel I'm in competition with them.
I think they're corny as fuck. All those boy bands and girl
bands and shit. But little teenyboppers like it. So sell it and
do it, I guess.
LAUNCH: Is there anything
else in the works for you?
EMINEM: I'm probably going
to be starting my own label soon called
Shady Records. Right now the artist I'm looking at is MC
Proof, who is on tour with me now. Actually, he's my hype
man. Bizarre Kid is another MC from Detroit. It may sound
biased, but I'm really trying to kick open the doors for
Detroit--to put Detroit on the map full-blown. Until I do that,
I won't stop with Detroit MC's. If I come across a dope MC
from another town, I'll put them on the label, but Detroit
has been struggling for years.
LAUNCH: Are you looking
to get into acting any time soon?
EMINEM: I've had some offers
to do some movie roles. I haven't
taken anything yet because I don't want it to take away
from the music. I'm already busy as fuck. Touring, working
on my new album, doing all the interviews, etc. I don't want
to get too busy. I already can't see my family. Dre and
I have talked about a feature film about my life. But it will
be some bugged-out shit: how Dre sees my life, how he
thinks I was conceived and shit. It's some ill shit. But we've
just been talking about it. It's not official yet.
---- http://www.shadyfactory.cjb.net
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