The minimum performance
criteria for orthographic codes
-
Learnable in 60 minutes or less by by a person
unfamiliar with English
-
After an hour of practice, a passage can be read
aloud [read phonetically] and understood by a native speaker.
-
Readable without a key for someone literate in
English
-
Usable as an i.t.a. for learning the traditional
system
Cann yu ried this?
Our faathr, hu art in hevvn: hollowd bie thai
neim. Thai kingdam cam, thai will bi dan, on erth az it iz in hevven.
Giv as this dei our deili bread and forgiv as aur dets azz wie forgivv
aur detterz. Annd lied as not intu temteishan bat delivver as fram
ievl, For thain iz the kingdm, the paur annd the glowry forevvr.
Aamen
Who's Reading
The orthographic challenge or the minimum performance
criteria for a functional orthography is the ability to read aloud a written
passage with no knowledge of how the words should be pronounced other than
according to the way they are written. A good code will permit this
to be done. A bad code may allow guesses but there will not be enough
accuracy in the guesses for a native speaker to understand what is bieng
said.
|
| abbot |
abut |
| abaat |
ubbut truespel |
| 'ae-b't |
'-'bLht
ipa |
| aebat |
abat spanglish |
| abbat |
abutt shows
stress |
|
|
Comment
HOW TO TEST A NEW ORTHOGRAPHIC SYSTEM
Teach the code - see if it can be
deployed without knowing the meaning of the words
The closer a code is to a phonemic code, the easier it is to teach and
learn.
> To really test your system you are going to have to
> get someone unfamiliar with English, teach them the
> new alphabet, and then have them read aloud the
> Gettysberg address. Perhaps to be a true test they
> would have to read something that you were totally
> unfamiliar with. --Gus
Steve Bett wrote:
>
> Say that someone was trying to spell "nation of
> pidgeons"
> and they used [neishan av pijanz]
> would you mark this as wrong?
Steve,
Of course not. One of my Irish friends in Hamamatsu has the family
name
of Lyons. And one day we were talking about this very problem.
Well,
I
asked him whether he pronounced his name "laiyinz" or "laiyanz" and
he
said it was "laiyanz". But I would transcribe it as "laiyinz"
myself.
I think some speakers use more schwa's than I do.
> I always like to start with the phonemic version of
> the script and then deconstruct it to something easier
> to write.
Yes, I agree. And this distinguishes our systems from some others,
which can't represents several sounds, even if they wanted to.
> To avoid the schwa schwi distinction, both could be
> written as neishn and pijn.
That's exactly what I did with my "Received Pronunciation" style
transcription of the Gettysburg Address.
> It appears that the marking convention is just a
> personal preference. You don't want to spell earth as
> 'rrth. You prefer rr'th. The mark indicates an
> alternate value for the R.
Yes, it's all arbitrary, at this point.
> In Spanglish I have gone back to the time where we had
> two schwa markers, a and e. The earlier problem was
> that the normal e became ee. Now the normal e is
> follwed by a dbl consonant.
>
> The fortuitous fall out of this change is that *the
> can be written as the or 'the or or d'e or dhe.
Interesting, because I have been thinking of doing the same thing with
TO "the". You remember that I divided the central vowels into
five
types, with four requiring some "r" being sounded or silent.
But also
remember that type4 and type 5 were virtualyy the same. Well,
why not
have a way to distinguish htem, in precise writing? One way would
be
the following:
(1) accented, with "r" sounded e.g. (ES) frr'/ (TO) fur
(2) accented, with "r" silent e.g. (ES) faa' / (TO) fur
(3) unaccented, with "r" sounded e.g. (ES) iigr' / (TO) eager
(4) unaccented, with "r" silent e.g. (ES) iiga' / (TO) eager
(5) unaccented, without any "r" e.g. (ES) e'gou / (TO) ago
Thus, e' can be used in ES e'gou/oupe'niq (for TO ago/sofa/opening).
David
Gus,
This might be a better test of Inglish2 and RITE
I am unable to guess the RITE spelling of some of these words.
Steve
Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.
Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!
Welcome to SAUNDSPEL the phonology forum.
This discussion group is for those interested in
writing systems and in developing ascii based variants
of the International Phonetic Alphabet.
NEWSLETTER
www.unifon.org/ssn-mar01.html [includes link to latest
issue]
For full participation, e.g., access to the polling
feature, you will need to set up a free yahoo mail
account go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel
In the archives you will find discussions of the
following notational schemes:
FILES on the saundspel server:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/
Englik - check the saundspel FILE section for details
Romik - "
Romanji - "
IPA - "
[the International Phonetic
Alphabet]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/Kelley%20Files/ipa_tables.gif
WEBSITES
Globish - www.unifon.org/globish.html
SAMPA - check John Well's website [Univ. of
London]
Spanglish - www.unifon.org/ss-0.html
Saundspel
Unifon http://www.unifon.org/index.html
World English
Winglish
Zinglish
non-ipa based systems
Akses, New Spelling, Fastrspel, Interspel, New
Spelling, Regularized English
i.t.a. [initial teaching alphabet]
www.unifon.org/ita-eval.html
Truespel - www.unifon.org/truespel-1.html
List manager: Dr. Steve Bett stbett@yahoo.com
This is an open mailing list - anyone can subscribe or
unsubscribe at will. Messages are posted on a web
board or egroup and also sent to subscribers. You are
currently subscribed but if you want off the list you
can quickly unsubscribe by sending a blank message to
unsubscribe-saundspel@yahoogroups.com
Since this is an active list, you may prefer the
WEBMAIL option.
This avoids overloading your personal mail account.
With Webmail, you can go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/saundspel
and check all the threaded discussions. When you
change your profile, be sure
you bookmark the URL because you will not get email
reminders.
Thanks again for joining the forum.
Please post a question and question one of the
answers.
Regards,
Steve
>> 4. ?< The way one codes English speech sounds has no
>> effect
>> on the way that English is pronounced. Everyone
>> agrees that a more efficient way of coding is
>> possible
>> and desirable. > This is not clear and the second
>> statement is doutful, I
>> am afraid.
>>
>> 5. re spelling dogs" as "dogz," "said" as "sed,"
>> or
>> "goose" as "goos".
>> Did they ever? For exampl there are meny erlier
>> spellings of said, eg.
>> 'sayd' 'saith', 'said'
>> but I hav never seen 'sed' prior to 1750 .
>> u hav inspired me to do some reserch on
>> 'How did peple spel when thay cd spel as thay
>> liked.'
>> I hav taken samples of writing from Chaucer up to
>> the end of the 17th
>> century, befor Johnson
>> and co, and taken note of simpler spellings and
>> preferences, and the
>> principls that can be
>> inferrd to lie behind the writers' patrns of
>> preferences.
>> This can help us consider how peple might prefur to
>> spel and read today, if
>> givn the chance.
>>
>> 6. Children's Reading List - as a link. What is
>> this?
>>
>> 7. ca. 1000 ce. Most people would not know these
>> abreviations.
>>
>> 8. Please define Hotsuma for readers who wil not
>> know what it is. Hotsuma is an early Japanese
>alphabetic script that shares some of the same indic
>inspsiration and origins as Hangul. It dates from
>before 1400 but it was never more than a monastic
>script.
>
>>
>> 9. I think vyule@fc.ausom.net.au wil work as an
>> email adress for
>> Spelling Day. Try and see if that gets thru. It is
>> simpler
>> than the old Valerie_Yule one.
>>
>> 10. Does
>> http://www.unifon.org/spelling-day.html
>> replace
>> http://www.pnx.com/gator/Spelling_Day.htm ?
>>
>> 11. I am sending the draft revision of what u hav
>> ritn to u in sevral ways.
>> i. In two parts in the body of emails
>> ii. Attachd as RTF
>> iii. Attachd as PC doc. Word 2.0
>> NOTE THAT I STIL HAV TO CHECK MY SPELLING WEBSITES,
>> AS I THINK SOME LINKS
>> HAV DROPD OFF. I wd be glad if u can tel me of any
>> u know ar not working
>> at present.
>>
>> Let's know what suits u best.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Valerie
>> > {\rtf1\mac\deff2 {\fonttbl{\f2\froman New
>> York;}{\f3\fswiss
>> Geneva;}{\f4\fmodern Monaco;}{\f5\fscript
>> Venice;}{\f8\fdecor San
>> Francisco;}{\f11\fnil Cairo;}{\f13\fnil Zapf
>> Dingbats;}{\f16\fnil
>> Palatino;}{\f20\froman Times;}{\f21\fswiss
>> Helvetica;}
>> {\f22\fmodern Courier;}{\f23\ftech
>> Symbol;}{\f24\fnil Mobile;}{\f128\fnil
>> BostonII;}{\f206\fnil 3Stone Informal;}{\f207\fnil
>> Sb 3Stone Informal
>> Semibold;}{\f1104\fnil VNI-Aptima;}{\f1109\fnil
>> Trebuchet MS;}{\f1311\fnil
>> VNI-Times;}
>> {\f1525\fnil VNI-Internet Mail;}{\f1596\fnil
>> Orkahaug;}{\f1792\fnil
>> Charcoal;}{\f2001\fnil Arial;}{\f2002\fnil Book
>> Antiqua;}{\f2003\fnil
>> Bookman Old Style;}{\f2008\fnil Century
>> Schoolbook;}{\f2010\fnil Times New
>> Roman;}{\f2011\fnil Wingdings;}
>> {\f2029\fnil Desdemona;}{\f2049\fnil
>> Stencil;}{\f2671\fnil
>> ChapBookItalic;}{\f2733\fnil Sculfux;}{\f2856\fnil
>> VNI-Helve;}{\f3013\fnil
>> Footlight MT Light;}{\f3015\fnil Matura MT Script
>> Capitals;}{\f3017\fnil
>> Brush Script MT;}{\f4513\fnil Comic Sans MS;}
>> {\f4538\fnil Arial Black;}{\f6759\fnil ITC Officina
>> Serif
>> Book;}{\f6760\fnil ITC Officina Serif
>> BookItalic;}{\f6761\fnil ITC Officina
>> Serif Bold;}{\f6762\fnil ITC Officina Serif
>> BoldItalic;}{\f6763\fnil ITC
>> Officina Sans Book;}
>> {\f6764\fnil ITC Officina Sans
>> BookItalic;}{\f6765\fnil ITC Officina Sans
>> Bold;}{\f6766\fnil ITC Officina Sans
>> BoldItalic;}{\f8763\fnil Lucida
>> Casual;}{\f9998\fnil Milestones;}{\f10897\fnil Old
>> English Text
>> MT;}{\f10957\fnil Bodoni MT Ultra Bold;}
>> {\f12761\fnil Torino Outline;}{\f12981\fnil Cooper
>> Black;}{\f13000\fnil
>> Poster Bodoni;}{\f13001\fnil Bookman;}{\f13003\fnil
>> Phyllis;}{\f13005\fnil
>> New Century Schoolbook;}{\f13009\fnil Zapf
>> Chancery;}{\f13103\fnil Woodtype
>> Ornaments 1;}
>> {\f14560\fnil AGaramond
>> SemiboldItalic;}{\f14561\fnil AGaramond
>> Semibold;}{\f14562\fnil AGaramond;}{\f14563\fnil
>> AGaramond
>> Italic;}{\f14570\fnil AGaramond
>> BoldItalic;}{\f14571\fnil AGaramond
>> Bold;}{\f14612\fnil T VAG Rounded Thin;}
>> {\f14613\fnil L VAG Rounded Light;}{\f14614\fnil B
>> VAG Rounded
>> Bold;}{\f14615\fnil Blk VAG Rounded
>> Black;}{\f15011\fnil Gill Sans
>> Condensed Bold;}{\f15054\fnil Signet
>> Roundhand;}{\f16383\fnil
>>
>Chicago;}}{\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;\red0\green0\blue255;
>>
>\red0\green255\blue255;\red0\green255\blue0;\red255\green0\blue255;\red255\gree
>n
>>
>0\blue0;\red255\green255\blue0;\red255\green255\blue255;}{\stylesheet{\s244\tqc
>\
>> tx3969\tqr\tx8504 \sbasedon0\snext0
>> header;}{\sbasedon222\snext0
>> Normal;}{\s2\qc \f2010
>> \sbasedon0\snext2 Times 12
>> LHS;}{\s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 \f3\fs20
>> \sbasedon0\snext3 Geneva 10 LHS;}{\s4\qr\sl360
>> \f3\fs18 \sbasedon0\snext4
>> Geneva 9 point RHS;}{\s5\qc \f3\fs20
>> \sbasedon0\snext5 Geneva 10 pt
>> LHS;}{\s6\sa60 \f16\fs22 \sbasedon0\snext6
>> Palatino 11 Space 3pt;}{\s7\sa80\sl300 \f14562\fs28
>> \sbasedon0\snext7
>> Books;}{\s8\qr\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 \f3\fs18
>> \sbasedon244\snext8 Geneva 9
>> Right;}}{\info{\title spday.RTF}{\author
>> Publications Unit}}
>>
>\paperw11900\paperh16840\margl1134\margr1134\margt1134\margb1134\deftab170\wido
>w
>> ctrl\ftnbj\ftnrestart \sectd
>>
>\sbknone\linemod0\linex0\headery737\footery737\cols1\colsx737\endnhere\titlepg
>> \
>> pard\plain \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 \f3\fs20
>> Steve,\par
>> Here is a beginning ansr to yr request:\par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 <Valerie, I would
>> like to complete the
>> spelling day project. Can you edit the content and
>> return it to me as a
>> text file?\par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 Have you updated the
>> page on your website?
>> Regards, Steve>\par
>> \par
>> 1. No, I have not yet updated it but I hope to do
>> this this weekend.\par
>> 2. I have done some redrafting and re-arranging
>> below - see what u think of
>> it.\par
>> 3. I have yet to get the links to other pajes
>> correctly.\par
>> I hav left the Korean spelling links to
u.\par
>> \par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 4. ?< The way one
>> codes English speech
>> sounds has no effect\par
>> on the way that English is pronounced. Everyone\par
>> agrees that a more efficient way of coding is
>> possible\par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 and desirable. >
>> This is not clear and the
>> second statement is doutful, I am afraid.\par
>> \par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 5. re spelling
>> dogs" as "dogz," "said"
>> as "sed," or\par
>> \pard \s3\tqc\tx3969\tqr\tx8504 "goose" as "goos".
>> \par
>> Did they ever? For exampl there are meny erlier
>> spellings of said, eg.
>> 'sayd' 'saith', 'said'\par
>> but I hav never seen 'sed' prior to 1750 .\par
>> u hav inspired me to do some reserch on\par
>> 'How did peple spel when thay cd spel as thay
>> liked.'\par
>> I hav taken samples of writing from Chaucer up to
>> the end of the 17th
>> century, befor Johnson\par
>> and co, and taken note of simpler spellings and
>> preferences, and the
>> principls that can be\par
>> inferrd to lie behind the writers' patrns of
>> preferences. \par
>> This can help us consider how peple might prefur to
>> spel and read today, if
>> givn the chance.\par
>> \par
>> 6. Children's Reading List - as a link. What is
>> this?\par
>> \par
>> 7. ca. 1000 ce. Most people would not know these
>> abreviations.\par
>> \par
>> 8. Please define Hotsuma for readers who wil not
>> know what it is.
ON USING RECTIFIED ENGLISH IN OUR OWN PUBLICATIONS
Since there are converters for ALC fonetic, Truespel,
and Cut Spelling, we have had articles submitted in
these formats.
RITE has had about a 10% endorsement from the
membership but since there is no converter, people are
probably a little unsure about using it.
We have also had objections to using these new
spellings because it makes the copy harder to read. I
would like to hear back from the 10% who endorsed this
reform spelling .. Do you want to see articles written
in this notation?
Do you want to see any written as enny and apathy
written as appathy?
It is one thing to say that you endorse the idea of
establishing a new standardized spelling for English
that is closer to the way it is pronounced. It is
another to force people to become literate in one of
the proposed ways of doing this.
It is wun thing to say that U endors the iedeea of
establishing a nue standardiezd speling for English
that is cloeser to the way it is pronounst. It is
anuther to fors peepl to becum literet in wun of the
propoezd ways of doing this.
ALC fonetic text is easy to create, just use the PERL
converter at
http://morph.ldc.upenn.edu/cgi-bin/sb/orthography/convert.cgi
Regards,
Steve
--- Elizabeth Kuizenga <elizabethk@pacbell.net> wrote:
> I havnt been in on enny of the SSSlist discussions,
> so i dont no wats been sed thair.
>
> But I secconded this becauz it seems tu me that
> nuthing is being dun outside
> of the RITE groop tu try tu reech consensus within
> the Society, and the
> membership has not been included in enny kynd of
> balloting that wood leed tu
> this.
>
> Furthermor i dont like it that our publications uze
> TS, feeling that we mite
> be taken mor seriusly if we wer promoting specific
> propozals that we had
> agreed on (eeven if we dont all like all of them).
> Elizabeth
|
