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ah! is that so? in other words, reducing Allah's Name is the same
as
reducing Allah Himself, right? if so then are you accusing me of
doing
that?
although i do appreciate your immense faith and loyalty to Allah,
i
think it is time to move on. Like one altway--Aziz, not only have
you
ignored all the Qur'anic examples i have given to rationalize what
we
are talking about but also regrettably, you don't understand the
qur'anic/esoteric concepts under discussion. and as such, i will
not
waste my time with either one of you!
011.034 My counsel will not profit you if I were minded to advise
you,
if Allah's will is to keep you astray. He is your Lord and unto
Him ye
will be brought back.
------
however, i will leave you and others with a few Qur'anic examples
to
ponder over because if, we follow your above rationale then it seems
that Allah had already REDUCED Himself to the level of His highest/
lowest creatures viz., *MAN & his seed*-- BECAUSE ALLAH, *AL-
ALIYY--THE MOST HIGH* CREATOR had given them HIS SPIRIT
& ATTRIBUTES OR NAMES!
in addition, do you know that Allah gave HIS NAMES/ATTRIBUTES
*RA-UUFUR RAHIIM* to the Rasul -- ref: 9:128? apparently, only a
few
verses earlier, He also called Himself by THOSE SAME Names - ref:
9:117.
further, according to a number of Hadiths, the Holy Prophet (SAS)
also
had 99 NAMES -- which in most cases, corresponded with Allah's own
99
Names.
hence, we have to wonder at this point, whether the Rasul became
DIVINE
or Allah DEGRADED Himself to the level of His Rasul! In addition,
He
used similar Names/Attributes for FOR HIMSELF and the BOOK, etc.,
as you
know.
QUESTIONS:
i. did Allah reduce Himself to the level of His multifarious
creation by giving it His Names & Attributes or exalt it?
ii. in either case, how did it effect Allah's own nature?
iii. does Allah depend on His creation for worship, exaltation or
degradation?
iv. is Allah that dependent or vulnerable, as you would have us
believe?
forgive me for saying these things, but this is the kind of rationale
you are following in spite of your ardent faith, piety and loyalty
to
Allah.
now, could you please tell us what is the difference between:
1. ALLAH (God) -- [not my translation]
82. AL-ILAH (God) -- [not my translation]
----
Is there *A/THE GOD--AL-ILAH* besides *THE GOD--AL-LAH*? Which
God is GREATER of the 2 and WHY? if 'Allah-THE God' is greater than
A/THE 'God- Al-ilah' - then WHY did Allah call Himself *Ilah* as
well or
rather, WHY did Allah reveal the following to that effect?
ILAH-GOD!
5:73 - Wa maa min ILAAHIN illaa ILAAHUNW-Wahiid
And there is no GOD except GOD - He is One
----
Read this verse very _SLOWLY_ and carefully
2:163 -- 1. Wa ILAAHukum ILAAHunw-Wahiid:
And GOD - your GOD, He is One
2. Laa ILAAHA illaa
There is no GOD except
3. HUWAR- RAHMAAN-nur-RAHIIM
HE IS Rahman, Rahim
VERSUS
ALLAH
38:65 - Wa maa min ILAAHIN illal-laahul Wahidul Qahhaar
And there is no GOD expect Allah, the One, the Absolute?
..---
QUESTIONS:
a. what is the DIFFERENCE between Allah and His Names or Attributes?
b. what is the DIFFERENCE between Ilah and His Names or Attributes?
c. what is the difference between these 2 Names and the Qur'anic
statements, respectively?
d. why did Allah keep that EXPLICIT DISTINCTION between them, if
there
was none?
e. moreover, did "THE GOD-ALLAH REDUCE" Himself to the level of
"a/the
God-Ilah"?
f. did He become LESS DIVINE as a result?
g. If not then how do you justify your following notion?
>>
: Al-Aliyy is a name or an attribute of Allah(SWT), not simply Ali
or
: Aliyy. Ali means high. Allah(SWT) is not simply high. He is the
Most
: High, WHEN YOU LEAVE THE AL OFF YOU ARE REDUCING HIS NAME.
>>
...--
now consider the following examples:
THE CREATURE:
1. 076.002 Lo! We create man from a drop of
thickened fluid to test him;
so We gave him hearing, sight --
FAJA-ALNAAHU SAMII-AM-BASIIRAA
VERSUS:
THE CREATOR:
2. 4:58 -- Innallaaha kaana Samii-am Basiiraa
3. 4:134 -- Wa kaanallaahu Samii-am Basiiraa
--------
did Allah REDUCE Himself to the level of His creature, whose offspring
was reduced to the lowest of the low? Ref: 32:8; 95:5.
THE BOOK:
4. 043.004 And Lo! in the Source of Decrees IN
OUR PRESENCE, it is indeed sublime, decisive-
wa _INNAHUU_ fii Ummil Kitaabi ladaynaa _LA-ALIYYUN HAKIIM._
VERSUS
THE CREATOR
5. 042.051 Lo! He is Exalted, Wise -
_INNAHUU ALIYYUN HAKIIM._
--
Who or What is GREATER of the two and why? has Allah shown that
distinction between Himself and these things?
let us also look at the following revelations:
THE CREATOR:
AND ALLAH IS BETTER AND MORE LASTING
WALLAAHU KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA
HIS CREATION:
i. 087.017 ALTHOUGH THE HEREAFTER IS BETTER
AND MORE LASTING--KHAYRUNW - WA ABQAA.
THE CREATOR:
ii. 020.073 Lo! we believe in our Lord, that He may forgive us our
sins
..
AND ALLAH IS BETTER AND MORE LASTING
WALLAAHU KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA
HIS PROVISION:
iii. 020.131 AND PROVISION of thy Lord is better and more lasting
--WA RIZQU RABBIKA KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA.
AND THAT--WA MAA:
iv. 028.060 AND THAT WHICH IS IN ALLAH'S PRESENCE is better
and morelasting--WA MAA INDALLAAHI KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA.
Have ye then no sense?
v. 042.036 AND THAT which ALLAH hath is better and more lasting
--
WA MAA INDALLAAHI KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA -- for those who
believe and put their trust in their Lord,
-------
where will you draw a line between Allah and these things? more
importantly, according to all faithful Muslims and their understanding
of the Holy Qur'an -- ONLY ALLAH IS BETTER AND MORE LASTING
--WALLAAHU KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA. if this assertion is true, and i
for one, do not question that for a sec:
1. why is Allah also saying that the Hereafter, the Rizq "AND THAT--
WA
MAA" -- which is in His presence -- indallaahi -- ARE ALSO BETTER
AND
MORE LASTING -- KHAYRUNWWA ABQAA?
2. did Allah reduce or degrade Himself by saying so or creating
these?
A. PROSTRATION TO MAN:
038.071 When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I AM ABOUT TO CREATE
a
mortal out of mire, 038.072 And when I HAVE FASHIONED him and breathed
into him of My Spirit, then FALL DOWN BEFORE HIM PROSTRATE,
038.073 The angels fell down PROSTRATE, every one, 038.074 Saving
Iblis;
he was scornful and became one of the disbelievers. 038.075 He said:
O Iblis!
What hindereth thee from falling PROSTRATE BEFORE THAT WHICH I HAVE
CREATED WITH *_BOTH MY HANDS?_* Art thou too proud or art thou of
the
high exalted--aalin?
-------
for all intents and purposes, this denotes a physical creation on
Allah's part and not by His Command - "Kun fa ya kun - Be and it
is."
moreover, it is revealed that:
I. _ALLAH HAS 2 HANDS_
II. and that which _HE CREATED_ with "HIS
2 HANDS"
III. was created with "2 HANDS" as well.
IV. -- and thus, BOTH WERE WORTHY OF PROSTRATION!
V. did Allah create a competition or similitude
for Himself thereby?
now comes the tricky part.
a. who were the *AALIIN--EXALTED ONES* referred
to in this verse?
b. WHO DID THEY PROSTRATE TO, if anyone?
c. did the angels PROSTRATE TO THEM too?
d. did these Aaliins PROSTRATE to Adam as
well?
Please prove it if they did or were commanded by Allah to do so.
B. PROSTRATION TO JOSEPH:
012.100 And he [Joseph] placed his parents on the dais AND THEY
FELL
DOWN BEFORE HIM PROSTRATE --WA KHARRUU LAHUU SUJJADAA:
C. PROSTRATION TO OUR REVELATIONS:
032.015 Only those believe in Our revelations who, WHEN THEY ARE
REMINDED OF THEM, FALL DOWN PROSTRATE -- IZAA ZUKKIRUU
BIHAA KHARRUU SUJJADANW -- and hymn the praise of their Lord,
and they are not scornful,
-----
Who or what is Allah's Revelations to which PROSTRATION is also DUE
as
above?
On the other hand, could you please tell us following -- "YOUR
RATIONALE" -- again:
i. to what level did "Allah the Highest of the High" REDUCE Himself
when He made the above command to the angels and asked them to PROSTRATE
to MAN?
ii. what is the difference between the Creator and the creature
in this
case, because BOTH HAVE 2 HANDS AND ALSO WERE WORTHY OF
PROSTRATION????
iii. what DIVINE SYMBOL does the HAND represent?
iv. then, what about Joseph's parents?
i. why did both Allah and Joseph allow his parents to PROSTRATE
to the
latter when prostration is due to Allah ONLY?
vi. to what level did Allah REDUCE Himself when He allowed VIOLATION
of
His Command to take place in this manner?
in short, your loyalty and piety does not make you right -- simply
because you have a very HIGH opinion of something. Satan also would
not
prostrate to anyone but Allah. yet, Allah called him HIS MUBIIN--
MANIFEST enemy and warned mankind against him.
Back to my original question. please tell us then, what is the
difference between:
1. ALLAH (God) --- [not my translation]
82. AL-ILAH (God) --- [not my translation]
----
Is there *A/the GOD--AL-ILAH* besides *THE GOD--AL-LAH*? If there
is
none then why did Allah keep the clear distinction throughout?
Salaam,
Navali
--------
Hajar
:
: Al-Aliyy is a name or an attribute of Allah(SWT), not simply Ali
or
: Aliyy. Ali means high. Allah(SWT) is not simply high. He is the
Most
: High, when you leave the Al off you are reducing His Name. I read
the
: ayat you quoted in my Quran. Mine reads like the second example
you
: have quoted below <
: an Arabic scholar so I will not argue the point with you, in any
event
: I can see that you are taking this Ali from there.
:
: My only question is this. Are you taking this Ali (which IMHO
should
: actually be Al-Ali) to mean Allah only, and not in any way insinuating
: that Imam Ali(AS) is Allah(SWT), or partners with Allah(SWT)?
The
: reason I am asking this is because there have been several references
to
: Ali(AS) being sent as a helper of Allah(SWT). This is only confusing
me
: more.
:
: WaSalaam, Hajar
:
: kenadian@my-deja.com
: >
: > In article <37E09EDB.C3895348@home.com
: > Hajar
: > > I have read the Quran. And so have lots of other Muslims,
nowhere
: > does
: > > it say one of Allah's names is Ali. Do you have such an aya
you
can
: > > quote?
: >
--
Lakum Diinukum--Unto you your Religion
WA LIYA DIIN--AND UNTO ME MY RELIGION
Kaafiruun--Disbelievers - Surah 109:6
Navali
If you have comments or suggestions
