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NAPALM DEATH ______________________
Here is a transcription of my conversation with Napalm Death bassistShane Embury. Napalm Death has turned a new page for itself lately, whatI consider a welcome break from the pure blasting grind style that theyoriginated. This is what Shane had to say about the change, the Greed Killingmini-album, the upcoming Diatribes album, and various other things.
Why did you choose (or maybe, why did Earache choose) to release an EP [GreedKilling out now] instead of maybe saving those tracks and putting them onthe album [Diatribes due Jan '96]?
It'd be too many songs on the album, I think. There's still two tracks we'vegot to remix. We recorded 18 songs, all in one big go, and when it cameto selecting the track listing for the Diatribes album, it couldn't workout. I mean, we were satisfied with all the tracks, and then it was justwell what do we put on. You could've thrown a lot of those on but I thinkit would've been a really long album. I think people's attention spans don'treally go past 40 minutes. Originally we were going to put a single outbefore the album, but then [somebody said], "Be interesting in doinga mini-album?" and take two tracks off the album and just put on theother tracks we can't put on the vinyl album, and just use it as a partone and two almost. Kind of like a taste now and you get the rest later.Ultimately you'll get the whole
thing, in a roundabout way.
The new material seems a lot more.. I don't want to say mechanized but moreprecise. More rhythmic.
Rhythmic, yeah definitely. With the last album[Fear, Emptiness, Despair] I think that's the direction we've gone in. Wedidn't want to rely on the same old traditional style, basically. I meanI basically find it boring. Not boring as such but a case of trying to expanda little bit more. We are going to take flak for it at the end of the day.Precise, yeah I suppose in some ways, we just got to be better musicians,learned to play better. Danny [Herrera] our drummer, since he's joined theband he's improved tenfold. And we're very conscious of timing and stufflike that. We rehearse really hard for it, Danny rehearses really hard forthe albums, he's always throwing the extra little bits in here and there.I guess it's more of a conscious effort to be tight and precise as opposedto the looseness of the early days.
Right. So it's partly a result of boredom and partly a result of maturityyou'd say?
Yeah, I mean obviously we play better. It's not something you consciouslyrealize you're doing I suppose but it just kind of works out that way, becauseyou do get better. And live it's still pretty chaotic, I mean we do havethat edge to it, maybe with the record it's slightly more controlled, butcertainly pretty intense at the same time. The tightness of it makes itintense.
Absolutely. I think this stuff will be a lot more coherent live too.
Yeah, hopefully.
Have you played any of this live yet?
We played a couple of tracks. Went down really well actually. As with thelast album, the new stuff we tend to play that people have never heard beforetends to get recognition quicker than the older stuff. [I indicate surprise.]Well you know you go to see a band that you've never heard before and youstand back and kind of watch and take it in.. we played this festival inDenmark and we played "Tetnus Strain" [pretty sure that's whathe said] off the Diatribes album and kids went crazy, caught the rhythmstraight away. That happened with the last album as well. I think you feelthe rhythmic sort of change, it's almost instantly catchy but, well, obviouslynot poppy. But things sort of grasp you a little bit easier. One guy theother day told me "It's fuckin' pit material.You think you're goingto disappoint people at all by not, you know, playing at the insane speedsyou used to or.. Some people, I'm sure. I mean, it's a mixed bag basically.You could line 20 people up against a wall and they're all going to tellyou something different. I know people who prefer the early stuff, I knowpeople that prefer the change. At the end of the day you don't want to disappointanybody but, you do what you do. The fast stuff's still there, there's alittle bit of fast stuff, but we'd rather use it at a minimum because wejust think it makes more of an impact [that way.] At least we can step upa gear, a lot of bands don't step up a gear at all, they just keep thatconstant sort of pace. I still think there are a lot of changes involved,andit should be more varied in the speeds there. But when you get onto yourfifth and sixth album, you can hardly do exactly the same thing. The samepeople who criticize us for not playing as fast would probably criticizeus for not changing as well. You really can't please everybody all the time.Hopefully people will get into it and that's all I can really ask.
So you think the contrast between the speeds of the sections makes themmore
effective.
I just think after a while you become desensitized to it. I mean obviouslythere are people who want nothing more, I mean when I was 17 years old allI wanted was the fastest, craziest shit ever, that was me, I mean, I wasnot happy unless it was blasting away, and a lot of the hardcore bands Iwas into had to be fast. But as I get older I tend to appreciate differentthings. Some of the songs I write [now] never go over four riffs, whereasbefore I wasn't happy unless the song had sixteen riffs in it. Not necessarilydifferent as bad or good it's just a change. Hopefully it's a good changeand it's a logical one, it's not going from Harmony Corruption to some sadpop tune, it's still pretty heavy stuff. To be honest, I really ceased tofind it extreme anymore. I just thought every band was doing it and it mightas well have been an AC/DC beat. With so many bands doing it, it's cooland everything but it gets to a point where.. I used to find the blast exciting,and I don't find it exciting anymore. I still love to do it, I still geta thrill on stage, an energy surge unparalleled really, but when it comesto writing songs, me personally, Mitch [Harris, guitar] as well, you haveto use it sparingly. You want a blast riff to kick in, you want to makean impression, you want to make it an original one. It got to a point whereI could pick up a guitar and churn out 30 blast riffs but would any of thembe any good? You have to get something to stand out.. If you know what I'mtrying to talk about.. it's hard to explain.
"Greed Killing" sounds like "Immigrant Song".
[chuckles.] That's the beat we used I think actually. It was part of a reallong song, it had this real grand buildup, and I was like, "You knowwhat Mitch? Where the song kicks in, that was the part I really liked. Youshould just start the song there." We've always been dying to use thatZeppelin beat anyway. I just said "You know that harmony in the beginning.Have Jesse just stay where he starts and you go down." This sort ofmelodic piece just came out of nowhere and we were like "Done!"[chuckles] Sometimes you get surprised by mistakes.
That's the best riff on the [mini-album] tape.
It's a new area. We were really into it. Jesse [Pintado, guitar] kind ofturned his nose up a bit but he always does, and he's alright after a while.He's one of those mediators, he just tries to keep the balance. Sometimeshe gets worried, but once he hears the song, he's tapping his feet.. butit just opens new areas for us. It's something we kind of stumbled acrossand it sounds really good, and I want to do a few more riffs like that forthe next album. It's a different area to move into, you can sort of bouncebetween harmonies and still have a heavy song. I think the word is dynamicsreally. The album kind of follows on from that, there's definite moodswingson the record. Definite parts where it, not mellows, but it's sort of broughtdown a little bit, and then built back up again. I think with previous releases,if you imagined it in levels you reached a level and just sort of stayedthere constantly. With the new one it kind of shifts up and down. In a goodway. We want to create more moodswings and stuff like that. That goes backto the blasting as just one constant thing all the time.
So if you're thinking in moods, do you treat each song as a slice of a moodor do you try to put more than one mood into a song?
Some have got more than one mood, I mean the track "Self Betrayal"on Greed Killing is a very slow kind of foreboding track I suppose, there'sa song like that on the [full length] album actually. It's just one mood,almost depression I guess. We do try to put more than one mood into a song,just try to pick it up and bring it down again really. And it's hard toanalyze it totally but that's what we try to do with the new record, tryto bring different pieces in and out really.
Now you have had in the past a number of side projects. Malformed Earthborn,Blood From the Soul, Meathook Seed.. are any of those considered still activefor you?
Well Malformed I mean, that album just came out on Relapse as you probablyknow anyway, Danny Lilker was already talking last night about doing anotherone, at some point he might come over to England and do another one. They'reall active it's just, you almost try and reassess everything. The Malformedis really the best thing for me because it's just complete no holds barred,we just did it on an 8-track in the basement with a few samplers, and it'sjust like whatever the fuck comes to mind. No barriers, whatever, we haven'tgot to please anybody. Usually once you do your first record you developan audience and that's where the opinions start to kick in -- what theythink you should do and shouldn't do. But Malformed I really want to keepat that level where it's just on the 8-track. This album that we did [Defianceof the Ugly By the Merely Repulsive] for Relapse cost us $70, which is classicas far as I'm concerned, that's just great [laughs]. I'd rather do a recordthat just costs nothing really. We actually played it, track 5 I think atthis club in Birmingham back to back with the new White Zombie single andthe actual level of recording maxed the White Zombie song, which I thoughtwas amazing, because the White Zombie song probably cost 100 grand. Someof the Malformed samples were kind of roguey, but the whole point of itwas to be kind of like, lashed out I suppose. The Blood From the Soul thingis.. probably going to happen again at some point, but it would be kindof different. I'm more interested in taking that style and bringing it toNapalm. I don't think it's that different from Napalm actually. It's justsomething I really wanted to do, just play everything, to see if I coulddo it, I guess. It's one of those self-achievement things. It didn't sellincredibly well and that doesn't bother me in the slightest really. It wasjust a self-accomplishment thing. It was a matter of just.. prove that Icould do it. It was almost like a security thing. I was playing an awfullot of guitar.. it's kind of strange to say, but it was almost like "CanI actually do this?" I wanted to read reactions of something that wascompletely mine. Some musicians tend to be a bit insecure at times, I knowI
am, Mitch is, Jesse is. The reactions were pretty good actually, some peopleliked it, some didn't. I'd like to do another one, but it'd be probablya lot different. There's so much different music that we get inspired by.Justin from Godflesh is like, if your love for music is that great, youreally want to have a bash at everything. You hear some crazy techno recordand you say, oh I'd like to do something like that, so you do it. The thoughtof it taking off or becoming popular is secondary. You just try somethingto see if you can do it and branch off into that, it's just fun to do. Somepeople kind of miss the point of a side project I think. Instantly they'regoing to think, oh you're out for cash. And very rarely will a side projectdo anything [produce financially] near your main band. Your band is a unionand there's something special about that union that makes it work. The MeathookSeed is again something that we want to work on. That's more Mitch's thingbut Mitch is going to drag me into it. Hopefully sometime next year we'regoing to finish the album off. We're going to make it a bit more soundtrackyalmost, using synths and stuff. There are always things getting thrown intothe book. I know Lee [Dorrian vocals] from Cathedral wants me in somethingof a band with him. I'm up for doing anything really but it's a matter offinding the time.
What's that going to sound like?
[laughs] I don't know, he's got some crazy ideas really. He wants reallyfast hardcore stuff and at the same time he wants slow stuff, and ambientsegments, which is kind of a bizarre combination. He wants Nicke [Anderssondrums] from Entombed to help him as well. I got to the point where I didn'twant to talk about it too much, I just wanted to do it. The more preplanningyou do you just kind of spoil the spontaneity of it.
Do you have any other projects planned in the future?
Kind of a few. I'm a really big fan of this band called Coil, they're aweird sort of ambient soundtrack band I guess, very scary and dark. Theirnext album is going to come out on Trent Reznor's label. I think they wantme to do bass on one of the songs. Which would be interesting because Ireally don't know how they work, so it'd be cool to do. There's always beena lot of ideas, and again it's [a matter of] finding the time. A friendof mine does this real heavy trip-hop kind of shit, and he wants me to dosomething with him as well, but there's a lot of talk and not much actionreally. Hopefully we'll overcome that once the Napalm touring schedule getscleared up.
What's the tour going to be like for this album?
Well, I know on Saturday, this coming Saturday [sometime early December95] we start a small mini-tour in Europe, real small, just 7 dates, kindof to take care of press as well, kill two birds with one stone as it were,and the end of January I think we're going to come over here for a monthor something, tour the album, a small club date thing. Just keep the clubskind of small and see what's going on generally. Which never happens really,usually the album comes out and we come over here like 2 months later. That'dbe nice to see what happens, to hit the States as your album actually comesout. And then we're going to do Europe but we really want to hook up withanother band and try to play in front of a few more people.
So there's nobody planned [at this point] to go with you for this?
The small tour there's a few bands we've talked about. It's still up inthe air as to who is going to come out with us. But hopefully, later onin the year we can come back with a bigger band. I'd like to tour with Ministryor something like that. That'd be nice. It seems very logical to me thatNapalm could play with these bands, but for some reason, the politics orsomething..hopefully we can pick someone up, but if not, we'll just do another fuckingrecord probably, or a tour off our own back.
