Creedence Clearwater Revisited
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Stu Cook interviewed by RockVillage !
About the new members.....lawsuits.....etc.
Here is the story........
You may have it through the grapevine already, but Stu Cook was not born on
the bayou. But, he was practically born in Creedence Clearwater Revival.
Whilst still in junior high school, Cook joined forces with John Fogerty, Tom
Fogerty and Doug Clifford to form a group which eventually became known as
Creedence Clearwater Revival. It also eventually became one of the greatest
rock 'n' roll bands to ever etch groove into wax.
Today, while John Fogerty enjoys success as a solo artist, bassist Cook and
drummer Clifford lead a band called Creedence Clearwater Revisited, with
former Cars guitarist Elliot Easton, singer John Tristao and
multi-instrumentalist Steve Gunner. And, you may have heard about the
subsequent lawsuits through the grapevine too, but Cook is here to clarify
any misinformation about the name, the music, and unfortunately the legal
hassles.
RockVillage:
CCR's rootsy sound stemmed from the chemistry between you, Doug, and the
two Fogerty brothers, and yet, your new record somehow captures that same
sound. How is it working with the three new, different people?
Stu Cook:
They're no longer new guys; they're part of the band.
And, it's actually working out great. The chemistry is still very
refreshing and everybody plays well off of each other. We pulled
together a tremendous organization and I'm proud to be working with
these guys
RockVillage:
Where did you find John Tristao from?
Stu Cook:
He was recommended. Everybody came recommended by a friend or from people
that we knew. Doug and I were looking for a guy who would really be a
strong singer with a good attitude about the music, a good sense of humor.
And I talked to my pal, Mike Connely, who worked at Dean Markley Strings -
- I used to play their strings -- and he said, "I got the guy just for you".
You know, he was right.
RockVillage:
Did you guys ever audition any other singers?
Stu Cook:
Yeah, we did. We actually played with three or four other guys, some guys that
now work as singers on commercials, professional studio singers, and some guys
from local bands. We mainly just worked in the California area, and then expanded.
John was living in Washington State, so we sent him a ticket to come down. And,
gee, after playing with him for a couple of hours, we felt confident that our
search was over.
RockVillage:
Who was he playing with up there?
Stu Cook:
He lives on Whidbey Island and was just playing in a little club on the weekend
himself. He'd originally been in a '50s review band called Daddy-O from the [San
Jose area]. He was in that band for like 17 years. He says he went through 51
different members. He was also in a band called People. They had a hit about the
same time "Suzie Q" came out called "I Love You." John's been in the industry
for many years. He's done acting, commercials, some movie parts and stuff.
RockVillage:
Any that we'd know?
Stu Cook:
Gee, you know, I've never even asked him. It doesn't interest me. I'm just concerned
that he stays healthy and can get up and power through this catalog of fine songs
every night.
RockVillage: When you first started singing with him,
did you tell him to try to sound as close to Fogerty as possible, or did you tell
him to do his own thing, or did you just let him go do what he wanted to do?
Stu Cook:
There were some things we thought were key to the songs. A certain approach was
necessary. But, you know, he pretty much had that under control because he had
been singing these songs as long as anybody else has. Fogerty wrote some great
songs and they're sung by people all over the world every night of the week.
And most people sing them to the best of their abilities, but John Tristao has
got amazing abilities. He can actually make you believe.
As different as his voice sounds from Fogerty's, it still fits well in the context
of Doug playing drums, and me on bass, and Elliot on guitar. Everybody brings
their own interpretation to it. But I think the original Creedence rhythm section
helps to tie it together.
RockVillage:
And how did you ever hook up with Elliot Easton?
Stu Cook:
When I was working on the Woodstock reissue, a friend at Atlantic, who I was
coordinating the project through, told me that Elliot was a big fan and wanted
to know if he could help get us together, you know, just so he could see if
there was any interest in playing together. When I was living in L.A., I did
get together with Elliot and we had a four- or five-hour lunch, just talking
about all this stuff that we had in common. So when Doug and I thought we'd
try and put together a team that could do the music justice, Elliot was at the
first on our list. And, in fact, he's been with us since day one. We held our
first vocal auditions over at his house.
RockVillage:
When you first worked with Elliot did you give him direction on how he
should play?
Stu Cook:
No. A lot of people think the Elliot connection is very unlikely in this project.
But the reason I thought of Elliot immediately is because Elliot told me he
learned to play guitar listening to the same people that Fogerty did. And,
of course, he played a lot of Creedence songs in a band that he put together
when he was growing musically. So he knew this stuff already, and he plays it
with his own style. But he plays the significant, recognizable hooks. And then
when it comes to solos and stuff, we just let him pretty much interpret it as
any soloist would.
RockVillage:
Were you or the other band mates concerned that you would end up sounding
like the Cars?
Stu Cook:
No. I like the Cars. But the main thing that I like about the Cars is Elliot's
guitar playing, which is so totally different from the rest of the band. It
caught my ear immediately, his fast rockabilly pickin'. Elliot's responsible
for the guitar hooks which are pretty meaty on a lot of the Cars songs, and
that's what really threw me into that band. It wasn't the keyboards and it
wasn't the vocal style; it was the amazing guitar playing. They were lucky
to have a guitar player like him, to put some Americana into what they were
doing.
RockVillage:
I noticed that none of the songs on your new record are written by you
or Doug. Why is that?
Stu Cook:
Basically, the project was so Doug and I have could play these songs. After
the Hall of Fame, when Fogerty shit on us and wouldn't play with us... We
found out at the last minute, like the day of show, the day of induction.
The band was being inducted and John Fogerty is on stage playing the songs
like Mr. Big up there. It was a pretty ugly evening. A couple years went by,
and after we tried to put that into perspective, we thought, "Well, the
guitarist is never gonna play with us. If we want to play together, we should
be playing these songs. We shouldn't think about starting a new band, we're
not interested in the record business per se, or MTV, or Rolling Stone magazine.
We are more interested in playing music and playing golf". We didn't want to
spend a bunch of time in the studio. We didn't want to do a club tour. We
didn't want to suffer. We'd already suffered. We put in our time. We put in
10 years before Creedence ever got noticed, back when we were doing it when
we were young and it didn't matter, when we didn't have any responsibility.
Furthermore, because of what happened in the trio, when Tom left, and Mardi
Gras was recorded. Most people don't know that Mardi Gras was forced on us
by John. He said he wouldn't sing on our stuff. We had to write it, otherwise
he was gonna quit. So what are we gonna do? We're in danger of losing our
band. We tried it. We figured we might be able to work our way through this.
He said we had to each write a third and he would not sing on the songs.
And, of course, we protested. We said, "That doesn't make a Creedence album.
That makes three mini solo albums," which none of us wanted to do. Maybe he
did, but that wasn't in the "democracy," the new format of Creedence. It
was never two against one. That was not the intention. In his mind, it
was. But John said, "You write it, you sing it. My voice is a unique
instrument. I'm not lending it to your material". We protested. He said
he quit. We went ahead and did it hoping we could get through this and try
and recover.
RockVillage:
So you just did it with Tom Fogerty?
Stu Cook:
Tom had left the band in disgust of trying to sing, like, a cover song, you know.
Over our career, we did over an albums worth of covers. Tom wasn't allowed to
sing on anything. He was the original lead singer in the band. It was
Tom's
idea to take us into the recording studio 10 years before Creedence was
born.
RockVillage:
As the Gollywogs?
Stu Cook:
Even before then. It was Tommy Fogerty and the Blue Velvets. So, it was Tom's
vision as much as anybody's, if not more. Tom Fogerty's vision was that this
is the band's record and that we make records and try to have a career.
As a result of that, we don't feel that doing any of the trio songs makes
any sense because to us, those are not Creedence. That's not Creedence music.
That's music played in a very painful, upside-down environment. You know,
it was played during the disintegration of the band as it turns out, and
we didn't want anything to do with that. We play music that the four of
us made famous. It's that simple.
RockVillage:
Do you guys write much now?
Stu Cook:
I mess around. There's so little time due to our touring schedule. If I can spend
a day or two at home in a week's time, I'm really happy. It's time to do my
laundry, which [my wife] hasn't done in the 17 years we've been together.
She's never done my laundry and now she's helping me, I'm so strapped for time.
I have a home studio, and Tristao has a home studio, and Easton, and everybody.
Doug is really serious about his golf game, but he writes at the piano and he
has people that he co-writes with. And I have written a lot with John McFee
from the Doobie Brothers. When I was in Southern Pacific, John and I wrote a
lot together. Kind of country rock. Southern Pacific had McFee and Keith
Knudsen, the drummer from the Doobs, in it, and later, Dave Jenkins from Pablo
Cruise. Sort of a California country rock outfit that they had high hopes for
in Nashville, but they would never put us on CD's or make videos for us until
we were just tired of doing it. We'd have chart numbers, but we could never sell
any product. They could never get product in the store. It was a bizarre career,
but it was fun playing with those guys. It was a tremendous musical outfit.
And I learned to be a more disciplined songwriter working with John and a guy
named Andre Pessis. He's written for Bonnie Raitt and Mr. Big [the band, not
John Fogerty]. He's actually a pretty successful Northern California songwriter.
But, yeah, I still write. And I love to just sit around and strum my acoustic
guitar when I have time at home.
RockVillage:
And I understand when you first started out you were playing guitar and keyboards,
and then you ended up playing the bass lines on the guitar?
Stu Cook:
Yeah. My first instrument was trumpet -- classically trained as a trumpet player -
- and then I moved to piano, and then I gave that up for baseball. And then I got
together with Fogerty, John and Doug, when we were like in the eighth grade.
I played piano in that band, that was the Blue Velvets. And then moved to just play
bass on the bottom strings of the guitar. And then Tom actually became the rhythm
guitar player, and I moved to bass guitar back in '65.
RockVillage:
Have you heard John Fogerty's latest records? What do you think of his new material?
Stu Cook:
I've heard enough of them to know that it doesn't approach the work we did together.
I'm glad he's back recording, writing and recording. I thought there were a couple
of high-points to my tastes on Blue Moon Swamp, but by and large, it was just
sort of
a rehash of styles that we'd pretty well worked from album one through Cosmo's
Factory. We worked those styles pretty hard, and I didn't hear anything new at all.
I'm surprised it took as long as it did to make, because Creedence use to knock
records out in a couple of weeks. I think we might have spent a month on one at one
time. But now, five or six years. I think Premonition, the live album's embarrassing
myself, although it has a couple high points. Stuff from his solo career are pretty
good jobs. By and large, it's not a live album. It's a totally repatched, redone,
canned approach.
RockVillage:
How so?
Stu Cook:
Well, I can hear -- half of it is -- I can say a large percent of it has been redone
in the studio. It wasn't done live, anyhow. It was done over two nights in front of
a controlled audience of invited industry people and friends. Our album was cut three
nights in three different cities under completely wild circumstances. I mean, it is
a live album and it is minimally sweetened. We did the acoustic instruments and some
of the percussion, touched up some of the vocal lines, but it's not edited together.
It's as played. For a guy who has such high standards, I personally think Premonition
is an embarrassment for Fogerty.
RockVillage:
Was there stuff on Blue Moon Swamp that you thought would have fit with CCR?
Stu Cook:
It's all John, and it's pretty one dimensional. I think the reason why the Creedence
stuff stands up so well, and why we were so dominant on the music scene is because
it was four people. There was a chemistry, a magic there that was able to bring more
out of it than any individual or any of the sum of the four people. There was a dynamic
in Creedence that's totally missing from Fogerty's solo work to my ear. You know,
when a guy tries to play every instrument on an album and every part exactly the way
he wants it, you soon lose sight of the big picture, just to make an exciting record.
There's no interaction. To me, it's just not what I look for in stuff that turns me
on. I don't mind hearing out of tune stuff. Whoever minded that the Stones were never
in tune? My God, if they were in tune it wouldn't have even sounded cool. To me, you
have to think about a lot of things if you want to analyze music. You can't just go
beat by beat, note by note. You have to take into account how it connects with people.
When there's a connection, it's something that you can't figure out, you can't put it
into a column. There's more to it, obviously. Look how long the Creedence stuff has
survived in terms of air play and sales. It's just amazing. We're still selling upward
of two million units a year, and we're getting airplay multiple times a day in every
city in the world, every continent from Asia into the former Iron Curtain countries.
Creedence is a staple of radio everywhere, no matter the language.
RockVillage:
That must be a great feeling to go into these exotic countries and hear your music on
the radio.
Stu Cook:
Yeah. It's even more thrilling to be playing for the audiences. Who knows if they even
know the words. Who knows if they speak English.(Laughing.) It doesn't seem to matter
and that's the beauty. Everybody gets to be celebrating, and rocking, and that's kind
of the astounding thing for me. I've been doing this professionally for more than a
couple years now and I still get a thrill out of the way people respond when we
crank up. It's very satisfying. That's why I keep doing this, honestly. I don't need
the lawsuits. I don't need the grief. I really don't need the money, although I don't
mind getting paid for a hard days night. But I do it because I know we're doing the
right thing. I can see in people's faces that this is correct. No one is being
confused. No one thinks it's the original band. We're there to celebrate it with
them, and we bring it as close to home as anybody is gonna possibly do
is an aspiring guitarist.
RockVillage:
You mentioned the lawsuits. What's the status of those?
Stu Cook:
When we started this project, we were negotiating in what we thought was good faith
with John about a royalty for doing it, a license fee to the partnership that owns
the name which Doug and I, Tom's widow, and John who each own, 25 percent. That
apparently fell through. After a year of us playing, John sued us on an injunction
to stop our use of the name. Somehow, he prevailed on the injunction, and we were
stopped from using the name Creedence Clearwater Revisited. That happened in
October of '96. We appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in August
of '97. They tossed out the injunction, saying there was no sign of confusion,
that Fogerty didn't have the right anyhow as he was not the sole owner of the
trademark. We had tried to settle the case in the subsequent time period, and John
showed no interest at all in settling it. His lawsuit against us still is in place
and is proceeding through the Federal Courts. Why? I don't know. The longer he
tours and releases product as John Fogerty, the less possibility there is of
confusion on any level anywhere. The longer we do it, the same thing.
Doug and I have set out never to confuse people. We felt we had the legal right
as the majority of the trademark to call it the Revival, and of course that would
have stunk. Our purpose is correct, to honor the band, not to drag it through
the dirt. So we thought Revisited was a perfect name because it embodies two
founding members, and were revisiting the music. We've done everything we can,
everything legally possible to ensure that the project is not misadvertised.
We do not authorize the use of the letters CCR separate of the name Creedence
Clearwater Revisited. They have to be used together. So, I mean, we're trying
to do everything we can, everything humanly possible to protect the trademark,
to enhance it's value. I believe we have. On the contrary, John has done
everything he possibly can to destroy the name by refusing to play the songs
for many years, currently, by usurping the band. John is referring himself as
the artist formerly known as CCR. What does that say? What does that tell you
about his perspective on what the four of us did together? To me that's not
good for the rest of us, and we are owners of this mark. When we decided to do
this, it was with the highest intentions, and it continues to be that way.
And lawsuits be damned, we'll go through them. We'll either win them or we'll
settle them, and we'll get back to the music.
Now, I'm proud of the work that we all did together and I know that everybody
else is, too. It's a shame that the fans have to hear this segment about the
lawsuits and all that stuff. It's a shame there is that chapter. It's always
been about the music and the music only, and that's why the band became so
successful. No one cared what we thought about politics, really. No one cared
what we looked like, particularly. Our career was amazing in that we didn't
have a very good label, we didn't have a publicist, we didn't have an agent
worth a damn, we didn't have a manager at all. The fact that this music is
still so popular and current really just speaks to the job we did, the music
and the grooves. It speaks for itself. And really that's all people care about,
you know. It's a shame that we have to go down this other road. But again,
celebrating the music has given Doug and I a real good opportunity to come
out and play when our playing is the best. We're playing better than we ever
have. I'd guarantee it.
RockVillage:
Well, it sure sounds good on disc.
Stu Cook:
Thanks. We're so proud of that. The idea behind it again was just fan
driven. People would come up to us after the concerts and say, "You guys
have a CD to sell along with your T-shirt or whatever?" We thought, "Yeah,
yeah, yeah, this is a lot of work. We're just really interested in playing.
But the more people that said that, the more it started to make sense.
And so toward the end of our '97 tour, right after we had gotten the name
back, we decided that we would try to record. And we recorded our last
three concerts of the year up in Canada. We recorded in Alberta Province,
Grand Prairie, Edmonton and Calgary. We toured all year. We were just a
smokin' band. And over the three nights, even though the environment was
like two different hockey arenas and a convention center, we were able to
pull together takes from three different nights. We had some technical
problems and lost the best "Born on the Bayou," and we lost the best
"Fortunate Son." We lost the best "I Heard It Through the Grapevine."
Those are second choices on the CD. And they're still pretty rockin'.
They were just a little more steady, a little more in the grooves,
we thought. But the second choices are fine anyhow.
Now we can sell it at the shows. And the next thing we know, we have
an offer, a European deal for the whole continent. Then our manager is
at a convention called South by Southwest in Austin, Texas, and he runs
into Len Fico from Fuel 2000. They were in a club having a drink,
listening to some music, and the next thing we know, we have a record
deal here in the States. So, it starts out to be sort of a souvenir
that ends up with a legitimate record distribution everywhere.
It's an honest, kicking play through. We're not walking through these
tunes. The people recognize that. It is always in the grooves, as we
use to say. I think it captures well the old and the new.
RockVillage:
Do you feel constrained doing the old material night after night? Does it
get old?
Stu Cook:
Not really. We've had a 25-year layoff. I wondered if I'd ever play it
again, playing with Doug and playing with these guys who really do
understand. They love the music and you can't help but see that when
they're playing it. It's not a walk-through. It's a band that rocks
for 90-to-100 minutes, just like the CD.
