From: James W Green III 
To: MbanksPerth@YahooGroups.Com
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:39:57 -0400
Subject: [MbanksPerth] Census, lists, dues, Mutter, Pete

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:51:44 -0400
Roger Marjoribanks  writes
via Marjoribanks-L@RootsWeb:
>Unfortunately there's still a delay on the 1901 
>Census for England, but the Scottish one is up and 
>running and has enabled me to sort out a 
>Marjoribanks problem that's been bothering me for 
>years.  ... I seem to remember that someone else 
>was waiting for the 1901 Census to appear in order 
>to check out an ancestor; would they like to 
>contact me?

It is not me waiting to check an ancestor, but is the census web site free to check? If so, what is the url? I'd like to see the listing for Jennie & Jessie Lowe of Forfar Scotland for every year.  I know so little about them yet they are responsible for we Sams having Mbanks ancestry.

...

>Roger
--
James W. Green III/285 Agnew Rd/Winnsboro SC 29180 CSA
home: 803-635-9236  http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen
http://Genealogy.Org/~green & working on: 
http://freepages.genealogy.RootsWeb.Com/~jwg3

From: James W Green III 
To: MbanksPerth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [MbanksPerth] Census & Wrights

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:04:58 -0400 
Roger Marjoribanks  writes:
>James, 
>
>The URL of the Scottish Origins site which will 
>take you to the census is www.origins.net, but I 
>think I can do a little digging first, which might 
>save some of the cost.

Oh! I had thought the census was on a free site.  I did not realize it was on Scottish Origins that you'd told us about earlier.  You perhaps said & I was not reading closely enough. 

>Unfortunately for some reason I can't get through 
>to the Marjoribanks website, 

Both sites?  
http://Genealogy.Org/~green/
http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen/

>so can you give me a date of birth (approximate 
>will do) for one of the Lowe Sisters from the 
>Mutter document?

Let's see.  Clicking on 16. my MARJORIBANKS Pages 
then clicking on "1. 1st Marjoribanks web site" 
then clicking on "29. Descendants of Samuel Banks"
then clicking on "13. Legends about Sam Banks"

then clicking on "1. 1920 Newspaper article about W. Banks Dove, the Lowes ..."
...

This digression made this letter long so I will close and start a new letter to try to find some semblance of age for the Lowe sisters.

>Roger
--
James W. Green III/285 Agnew Rd/Winnsboro SC 29180 CSA
home: 803-635-9236  http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen
http://Genealogy.Org/~green & working on: 
http://freepages.genealogy.RootsWeb.Com/~jwg3

From: James W Green III 
To: MbanksPerth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:56:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [MbanksPerth] Census, lists, dues, Mutter, Pete

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:04:58 -0400 
Roger Marjoribanks  writes:
>... can you give me a date of birth (approximate 
>will do) for one of the Lowe Sisters from the 
>Mutter document?
>
>Roger

Going back to the "Legends about Samuel Banks" page, 
clicking on "6. Mutter Paper of 1881" I find: 

1.5 MARY MARJORYBANKS
Birth Date      (about) 1779
Spouse          JOHN WALLACE
Children        2.1 ANN WALLACE b. 1806 
                2.2 MARGERET WALLACE b. 1815 
                2.3 DAVID WALLACE b. 1817  
                2.4 JOHN WALLACE b. 1820

Going back to Legends & clicking on: 
"2. Ca.1970 Handwritten on Yellow Research notes"
and searching for Peggy it says: 
"Jeanie & Jessie Low are the daughters of Margaret 
 Wallace (Peggy) the daughter of Mary Marjoribanks, 
 the daughter of the dyster of Thornhill and fuller 
 of Fishing Creek. SC"

Going back to the Sam Banks page & clicking on: 
"7. Scots Ancestry Res. Soc. Report on Samuel 
Marjoribanks" it says: 
"Mary [born] 28:12:1777"

Putting this together: 
John Marjoribanks b. 1743 begat 
Mary Marjoribanks b. 28:12:1777
  m. John WALLACE & begat
Margeret "Peggy" WALLACE b. 1815
  m. __ Lowe & begat 
Jeanie & Jessie Low
or "Mesdames Jesse and Janie Lowe" per newspaper 
article.

So Jessie (Jesse) and Jeanie (Janie) Low/e are born about 1845 & are still alive about 1920 when the newspaper article was written.  They would be about 75 in 1920 if born in 1845.  They could be born as early as 1835 but no earlier than 1830 since their mom would be only 15 in 1830.  I am not knowledgeable about how old a woman can be & give birth.  I rather doubt she would be 50 which would yield a birth in 1865.  Can I say they were born 1845 or 1850 +/- 15 years!

Thanks in advance for finding the Lowes in Forfar.  I think they are on High Street.  Somewhere I had the house number.  Do you need the house number? It was __ 1/2 High Street I think.  I recall I wrote the postmaster in the 1970s & he said there ain't no such address.  If you find this, I will be happier with the existence of the Lowe/s.  Right now they are very fuzzy as you can see with no dates & fuzzy names:
Jessie (Jesse) and Jeanie (Janie) Low/e

...
--
James W. Green III/285 Agnew Rd/Winnsboro SC 29180 CSA
home: 803-635-9236  http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen
http://Genealogy.Org/~green & working on: 
http://freepages.genealogy.RootsWeb.Com/~jwg3

From: James W Green III 
To: MbanksPerth@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 03:56:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [MbanksPerth] Census

On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:30:36 -0400 
Roger Marjoribanks  writes:
>After a long search I have found the following 
>household in the 1881 Scottish Census (which I 
>have on disk):-
>
>Address:- 30 Lour Rd., Forfar.

Where did they come up with that street name? Is Lour a surname or a common noun -- does it mean something? MapQuest being down, I can't look for that road.

>Head:- Peter Low, 68, Insurance Collector, b. 
>England.
>Wife:- Margaret Low, 66, Insurance Collector's 
>Wife,

Are all wives listed in the census as helping their husband with his occupation? Odd occupation! In USA census it would say keeping house or house wife. 

>b. Fingask, Perth.

I found that castle on the web & assume her parents lived & worked at the castle when she was born.  MapQuest was not working last night.  I am glad the castle was on the web with a map.  They rent cottages for vacations. 

>Dau.:- Jane Low, 28, Linen Factory Worker, b. 
>Brechin, Forfar.

I had to check my old atlas (before the UK destruction of their counties).  I knew I'd seen Forfar as a region.  On checking, it looks like an alternate name for the county.  Looking at it in the census abstract above, I thought maybe it was a big parish.  But, look at the map I put on the web.  I spent about 4 or 5 hours last night cleaning the map up.  It is at the bottom of the new web page I made last night of the Lowe sisters:

http://Genealogy.Org/~green/ or 
http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen/
then 16. my MARJORIBANKS Pages 
1. 1st Marjoribanks 
29. Descendants of Samuel Banks 
then click on any Lowe link.  

>Dau.:- Jessie Low, 25, Linen Factory Worker, b. 
>Forfar, Forfar.
>Gr dau.:- Fanny Kettles, 4, Scholar, b. Forfar, 
>Forfar.

I wonder who married a Kettles.  We would see more siblings of the Lowe sisters if we saw the 1871 & 1861 censuses.  But I should be content.  I hope you all like the web page I created for the Lowes.  Roger increased our knowledge of them a lot with this email. 

>I would think that this is undoubtedly the family 
>we are looking for; the two girls would have been 
>born about 1843 and 1846, 

Roger, did you subtract 1881 - 28 & 1881 - 25? I get 1853 & 1856 using a calculator. 

>so would be in their 80s (perhaps late 70s) when 
>the vital letters were written.  I can, of course, 
>check them out in the 1901 Census, by which time 
>presumably the two old people would be dead, and 
>order the extracts, if required.  This would cost 
>£16 sterling.

For £16 I'd think you would get a photocopy of the original & not just an extract.  Why do you all say £16 sterling? That implies to me you are going to pay in silver money rather than paper money.  I suppose it now just means cash or check as opposed to credit?

Can one look at the census on microfilm and make copies from the film by themselves as you can in the USA of USA census, often found at large libraries? £16 is too much to pay.  I suppose I have the most interest in the Lowes and I would not pay £16, so I guess we will quit here unless there is a cheap route. 

>Roger

Thanks again.
--
James W. Green III/285 Agnew Rd/Winnsboro SC 29180 CSA
home: 803-635-9236  http://members.FortuneCity.Com/jgreen
http://Genealogy.Org/~green & working on: 
http://freepages.genealogy.RootsWeb.Com/~jwg3

From: Roger Marjoribanks 
To: "INTERNET:MbanksPerth@yahoogroups.com" 
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:21:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [MbanksPerth] Census

Dear James,

First of all, apologies for my poor arithmetic - I must be getting old!  Secondly, I rather think that Lour is the name of a small stream, burn or brook - not common, but not completely unknown; I've come across the place-name Aberlour meaning "Mouth of the Lour."  Thirdly, there could be several explanations for the prence of the grand-daughter Fanny Kettles, but they all imply the existence of a father (whether or not legitimate) of a father called Kettles.  The most likely is that the parents were in some intinerant occupation and the grandparents were left literally "holding the baby." Fourth, I can examine the 1901 Census record for £6 and transcribe it - the extra £10 is the cost of the photocopy; of course, if I were visiting the site any way the £6 becomes immaterial.  Finally, I use the word "sterling" simply to differentiate the U.K. pound from that of the few other countries that use pounds - one pays for the use of this site by credit card, so it is equally accessible from the U.S. (though I suppose ther might be some loading of the price - I wouldn't know); at any rate, I'm always prepared to carry out commissions for family members at basic cost (unlike professional researchers) and in this case would ignore sums as small as £6 - I can always combine it with other work.

Oh, one final point - yes, it is a little unusual to find descriptions such as "Insurance Collector's Wife" recorded - usually this section is left blank when the wife has no specific occupation.  In general I have noticed that descriptions like this are included only when the occupation of the husband is a "respectable" middle-class one and, I guess, is given to add a little to the wife's perceived status.

Roger