Annual General Meeting
The AGM has been scheduled for June 24th. It will be held at the Hong Kong Yacht Club, Causeway Bay commenceing 7.00 pm.
If you are avaialable to attend, please do so.
Mixed Fleet Flying Trial (MFF) 
After consultation with members and the company, the DPAC agreed to participate in a trial of Mixed Fleet Flying operations (MFF).
6 Pilots will be running the trial in order to guage suitability of MFF in KA ops. The DPAC has set up a sub-committee to examine the MFF trial and the wider implications of MFF to the pilot body. Your inputs are valuable to the sub-com, so if you have any information, thoughts or suggestions please forward them to the sub-com via e-mail. MFF Sub-com
At the conclusion of the trial and once the data has been examined, the sub-com will put recommendations on MFF.
This and past committees have always stated that MFF would only proceed on the basis that participation in MFF is voluntary, is in order of seniority and is recompensed. This platform of acceptance if fixed.
Contract Negotiations
The DPAC has been requesting Contract Negotiations for considerable time on behalf of FCS crews. A basic list of discussion items has been presented that includes a pay demand. As yet no date has been set.
A request for negotiations has also been put to discuss HKG contracts. Management stated that there was no reason to discuss anything as "there was no money on the table".
The DPAC believe there is considerable reason to discuss our contracts, and have written to management outlining our reasoning.
What the DPAC now require from you is input into what you would like discussed. We NEED your input in order to present your thoughts rationally.
Please place suggestions in the DPA mailbox addressed CONTRACT TALKS.
Rostering Survey
Airbus rostering survey results
The results below are from 114 returned survey forms from a total of approximately 170 Airbus pilots. The survey results will be updated when further replies are received.
Individual comments (generally unedited and in no particular order)
We get credit for standby day, but not for `A' days. If we go back to `A' days we will only end up with 7 or 8 `G' days a month.
I would like to see a guaranteed 10 `G' days off a month minimum.
Re `A' days: We had a rostering meeting with Mike Kitney and Wendy some 3 years ago now, where it was strongly reiterated as the DPA position that `A' days are a NO-NO! These where seen as cheap standbys for the company, attracting no credit hours. Since then `A' days have not been seen, until last month anyway, when I was given one! Please understand that `A' days, if allowed to be reinstated, can and will be used by the company as a “flexibility tool” to cover shortcomings in rostering, none of it to your advantage.
I would like to be able to log into the company's e-mail using broadband, then I would no longer need a modem at home.
The GM(O) Tim Watts informed the rostering staff 3-4 years ago that training captains should be rostered `G' days in groups of 3 where-ever possible. This virtually never happened. Only in the last 2 months has this occurred. I'm wondering whether this is due to a (expletive deleted) up rather than good rostering. Still, the Dec/Jan/Feb rosters are good!!
A balance rather than all late or all early in one month.
Fast track system for block of 5/6 or 7 `G' days.
Please keep single sector days or short sector days to a minimum (e.g.: HKG-XMN-HKG only).
Rostering parity for trainers.
Is it a coincidence that (name deleted) has had 4 GQ's every month for at least the last 14 months?
Too many pilots on standby, e.g.: 8 when 5 would suffice.
If the company works us 4 weekends in a row then the next month shouldn't be 4 weekends worked as well. Have a maximum of 4 weekends (work) in a row maybe??
Roster update every two weeks for the following six weeks (3 weeks firm and 3 weeks provisional).
Master roster web site.
Roster preference bidding.
Full flying blocks and full standby blocks. Rotation or a full voluntary method could be used.
Equitable rostering, IE: equal hours/overnights etc.
I would prefer to work as many hours as possible each day at work to get up my 75hrs in as few days as possible. Single sector or short sector days are not an efficient use of time (a XMN return gets less than 3hrs credit for over 7hrs away from home). I would like to see more 3 and 4 sector days.
Single `G' days are useless! 5-6 day patterns with at least 3 `G' days are preferable. Trainers do not get many overnights.
A mix of up to 4 to 6 nightstops is acceptable.
Allocation for `A' day must occur on the previous duty day, not the previous day; consequently if an `A' day is rostered after a couple of `G' days the time to check if a duty has been allocated is before the start of `G' days.
Blocks of 3 days off don't really work for me. For any sort of trip away a block of 4 (or more?) is really needed.
Overall the rostering staff are great and handle a difficult job as best they can.
The present block of consecutive overnights (A-330) is a very inefficient system of rostering. More efficient system should be looked at.
Longer days re: less single sector days and more `G' days.
Late early: a mixture is good.
Any rostering practice that facilitates maximum number of `G' days in a block, ie: max flying hrs/sectors in shortest period (fast-track).
When I come to work I prefer to work. I don't like 1 sector/2 short sector days. If I'm rostered for double overnights I would prefer 4 sectors on middle day, also 3 sectors on 1st and 3rd days.
Lately, with the increase in crews and slow down in flying the rosters have been pretty slack with lots of standby. In the past couple of months my rosters have been 1/3 parts of work, `G' days and standby duty. However even with this current slack in the system the rosters are not accommodating to the individual crews concerned. For example I have not been rostered for a `G' day on a Sunday in about six months. There also seems to be a lot of pilots taking the initiative to lobby the rostering department to have their rosters work for them. This is great for them individually but the rostering department probably doesn't like it and it's not fair for the entire pilot body. A lot of people like the fast track/slow track system only. This helps the crews that want to commute but the slow track people also have requests that need to be fulfilled. Clearly, trying to roster everyone in the same way doesn't work. It's impossible to make everyone happy but at least a system should be found to make the most employees happy as possible.
Presently there are enough pilots with varying agendas to give the roster makers enough flexibility to accommodate most.
I would like to see an equitable and flexible way for individual crews to be able to choose the roster style they want.
What I would like to see is a request system. The current GQ request form can be used but expanded to ask crews which style of roster or priority they would like. For example; “I would like fast track”, or “I would like Wednesdays off”, or “I would like to work afternoons”, etc.
If rostering cannot accommodate the request then nothing is lost but at least they have an idea of each pilot's personal wish. If the form is not submitted then they would be rostered as per normal practice.
One problem that I can see is that the company currently tries to balance EFP hour. With a request system the flying hours may be equal but the EFP hours may vary. Perhaps EFP alone should not be the only criteria for determining overall productivity.
Basically the request system is what's happening now only formalised. It would require minimum effort and is not complicated to implement. It's a no cost item to the company and would show a lot of good will to the pilots. It would benefit those that chose to submit the form. Lobbying would no longer be required and it would allow a lot of flexibility to the rostering department without having a formal rostering agreement.
Rostering has improved a great deal in the last 6 months. Rather 4 sector days. Much Prefer to be back in HKG at night than 3 sectors and overnights.
If “early leave” runs over into the following month a request for 2 `G' days in either month should be allowed as this would still only equate to 4 `GQ's' a month.
I wish that we could avoid roster changes that change early duties to late and vice versa as this ruins domestic plans.
More days off before and after leave.
A computer based bid system. I would like more control of when all my too few `G' days are taken. Will we ever have a respectable minimum of 12 days off per month???
I don't like the (A-330) 430, nightstop, 436/7, nightstop, then 431/804/805 (inefficient).
Work any combination of days on to facilitate 5 or 6 `G' days together each month.
`A' days to be assigned only preceding or following `G' days. Any duty for `A' day to be assigned 24 hours before `A' day or `G' day if preceded by `G' day.
When returning from leave I would like to see the next day a flying duty (or `G' day) as opposed to a STBY! Particularly when there are 20 people on standby.
I would like to do more multi sector days thereby facilitating more `G' days and less STBY's.
Workload as a 320/321 F/O is pretty cruisey at the moment until the o'nites and Taipei services kick in and then things may change (this respondent was “happy with current roster”).
We get credit for standby days, not `A' days. If we go back to the `A' day system the company will roster us for lots of `A' days and minimum days off (`G' days), why would they not? This would put us back at 7 or 8 `G' days a month. If company will agree to 10 `G' days a month then okay (`A' days preferred).
More 4 sector days (avoids more overnights), gives more `G' days (more “concentrated” work).
I would like to do as much work as possible when at work to facilitate more days off and still reach the required productivity level. This has been the wish of nearly every pilot I have known in this and previous companies.
It seems to be common practice for crew planning department to start allocating leave early in the current year. May I suggest they refrain until mid year to allow for unexpected travel plans that could arise in the second half of the year?
Prefer 3-2-1 sectors rather than the gruelling 1-2-3 sectors.
Notes: Results are fairly even over fleets/ranks, with the highest preference for weekends and public holidays (still less than 40%) being with A-320 Captains (possibly due to more “married with younger children” in this group). The majority of those happy with their current rosters are F/O's, as would be expected with their current (quote) “cruisey” workloads.
Clearly there is room here for improvement to rosters to facilitate pilots' individual lifestyle preferences. Catering to these preferences should reduce the amount of roster disruption (and workload for rostering staff) caused by trip swap requests and other “adjustments”.
A couple of the pilots who indicated that they were “happy with their current roster” later verbally qualified that statement with “at the current workload levels”.
Other personal preferences:
A computer based bid system! (see individual comments).
Ability to nominate for option 1 or 2 a month or so before.
I would like to see a guaranteed 10 `G' days a month.
I would like more overnights.
I want a single large block of `G' days ie: 5/6, not 2 lots of 3, weekend working not a problem, overnights not a problem.
Present `G' day (distribution) situation is OK. Would rather fewer overnights. I'm more than happy to fly more hours in total as I'm short of 5k for command.
I would like to be rostered for as much flying as possible- don't care how this is done (short of 5k).
I would prefer more consecutive days flying in order to get more (consecutive) `G' days, ie: last 10 days of month off.
Notes: A reply of “happy with current roster” (and no other comments) has been assumed as a preference for short standbys (current system).
'A' days have not generally been rostered for a couple of years as a result of a previous representation from the DPA to the company. It appears that the company now rosters short standbys on days where they are not sure if they are going to need a pilot or not. These short standbys don't seem to be released as 'G' days if the pilot is subsequently found to be not required. There are two opposing views here:
`A' days are a “no cost” form of standby for the company, attracting no credit towards the 65/75 hour monthly target and hence no EFP payment if the pilot is over his/her EFP threshold. Standby should be rostered instead of `A' days to ensure credit is accrued (see individual comments).
If an `A' day is rostered but no duty is assigned, the day effectively becomes a day off. If the pilot is not over his/her EFP threshold rostering a standby instead of an `A' day results in no financial gain, but requires the pilot to in fact be on standby. `A' days should be rostered to allow some flexibility for both the pilot and the company.
The results are remarkably evenly distributed over all pilot categories.
Notes: Overnights appear to be most unpopular, possibly due to the attractiveness (or otherwise) of our overnight ports and the fact that many patterns offer little more than minimum legal rest in a port. Since this survey Fuzhou has been added as a layover. Recent comments from both pilots and cabin crew indicate that this is a particularly unpopular overnight.
There is a fairly even distribution of requests for “earlies” and “lates”, so perhaps personal preferences could be considered when compiling rosters, without generally disadvantaging anyone.
Other requests:
Individual control of roster.
Basings!!! (more).
Japanese overnights/charters (more).
No 4 day patterns.
Blocks of consecutive `G's (more).
Salary scale comparison
A comparison between B-scale Cx and Ka post 1st of April -93
Salary HK $
Cathay Pacific Dragonair
RANK / Year Annual Monthly Annual Monthly %less CX
Second Officer 1 $386,556.00 $ 32,213.00 $341,952.00 $28,496.00 13.04%
2 $432,960.00 $36,080.00
3 $484,920.00 $40,410.00
4 $543,108.00 $45,259.00
Junior First Officer
1 $ 593,052.00 $ 49,421.00 $ 458,220.00 $ 38,185.00 29.43%
2 $ 664,224.00 $ 55,352.00 $ 574,476.00 $ 47,873.00 15.62%
First Officer
1 $ 771,180.00 $ 64,265.00 $ 683,904.00 $ 56,992.00 12.76%
2 $ 784,116.00 $ 65,343.00 $ 697,560.00 $ 58,130.00 12.41%
3 $ 797,316.00 $ 66,443.00 $ 711,516.00 $ 59,293.00 12.06%
4 $ 810,780.00 $ 67,565.00 $ 725,736.00 $ 60,478.00 11.72%
Senior First Officer
1 $ 838,248.00 $ 69,854.00 $ 740,280.00 $ 61,690.00 13.23%
2 $ 859,668.00 $ 71,639.00 $ 755,064.00 $ 62,922.00 13.85%
3 $ 881,736.00 $ 73,478.00 $ 770,184.00 $ 64,182.00 14.48%
4 $ 904,452.00 $ 75,371.00 $ 785,568.00 $ 65,464.00 15.13%
5 $ 927,864.00 $ 77,322.00 $ 801,264.00 $ 66,772.00 15.80%
6 $ 951,972.00 $ 79,331.00 $ 801,264.00 $ 66,772.00 18.81%
Captain
1 $ 1,180,500.00 $ 98,375.00 $ 1,020,720.00 $ 85,060.00 15.65%
2 $ 1,201,620.00 $ 100,135.00 $ 1,041,156.00 $ 86,763.00 15.41%
Senior Captain
1 $ 1,223,136.00 $ 101,928.00 $ 1,061,976.00 $ 88,498.00 15.18%
2 $ 1,245,096.00 $ 103,758.00 $ 1,083,192.00 $ 90,266.00 14.95%
3 $ 1,267,488.00 $ 105,624.00 $ 1,104,864.00 $ 92,072.00 14.72%
4 $ 1,290,336.00 $ 107,528.00 $ 1,126,932.00 $ 93,911.00 14.50%
5 $ 1,313,628.00 $ 109,469.00 $ 1,149,504.00 $ 95,792.00 14.28%
6 $ 1,337,400.00 $ 111,450.00 $ 1,172,508.00 $ 97,709.00 14.06%
7 $ 1,361,640.00 $ 113,470.00 $ 1,195,920.00 $ 99,660.00 13.86%
8 $ 1,386,360.00 $ 115,530.00 $ 1,219,848.00 $ 101,654.00 13.65%
9 $ 1,411,584.00 $ 117,632.00 $ 1,232,040.00 $ 102,670.00 14.57%
10 $ 1,437,324.00 $ 119,777.00 $ 1,244,364.00 $ 103,697.00 15.51%
11 $ 1,463,544.00 $ 121,962.00 $ 1,256,808.00 $ 104,734.00 16.45%
12 $ 1,490,316.00 $ 124,193.00 $ 1,269,360.00 $ 105,780.00 17.41%
13 $ 1,517,616.00 $ 126,468.00 $ 1,282,056.00 $ 106,838.00 18.37%
14 $ 1,545,456.00 $ 128,788.00 $ 1,282,056.00 20.55%
15 $ 1,573,872.00 $ 131,156.00 $ 1,282,056.00 22.76%
16 $ 1,602,828.00 $ 133,569.00 $ 1,282,056.00 25.02%
17 $ 1,632,384.00 $ 136,032.00 $ 1,282,056.00 27.33%
Overnight Info.
I still require more input from you as to where to go and what to do on overnights.
Please put info in my mailbox (47) so I can update the website more often.
